Good Contact: Powell, Giambi, Outman Go Deep In 6-2 Win
by Nico on May 24, 2009 4:07 PM PDT
125 comments
Landon Powell entered today's game 400 career HRs behind Jason Giambi, and he still is. Despite putting 8 runners on base in the first 5 innings against Jon Garland, the A's were shutout, and trailied 1-0, going to the 6th. That's when singles by Sweeney and Crosby put runners at first and third, at which point Garland uncorked the first of two key wild pitches in today's game. Then Powell launched his first major league HR, a two-run shot that ended what had been an afternoon of frustration for the offense and gave Oakland a 3-1 lead. Hearing footsteps, Giambi clubbed career HR #401 in the 7th to make it 4-1.
Meanwhile, "contact" and "going deep" were also the name of the game for lefty Josh Outman. Outman turned in the A's longest starting effort of the season, 7.2 IP, yet he did not record a strikeout. How do you survive a start in which you walk 5 batters and don't strike any out? 4 DPs is how.
With an unearned run scoring in the top of the 8th, Outman turned a 4-2 lead over to the bullpen and after Michael Wuertz finished the 8th, before once again a wild pitch proved to be the Diamondbacks' undoing. In the bottom of the 8th, Powell was at second, relegated to "slightly slower than Bengie Molina" status due to his bad hamstring, with Cabrera at first and two out and Adam Kennedy at the plate. That's when Esmerling Vasquez uncorked a wild pitch, allowing Powell to limp over to third and Cabrera to trot down to second. Kennedy then lined a one-hop single to LF, scoring two runs instead of the zero it would have plated but for the wild pitch.
I thought today's outing was a step forward and a step backwards for Josh Outman. He had no consistent command of his fastball or his changeup or his slider (which he hardly threw), and the 5BB : 0K ratio tells you a ton. On the flip side, though, Outman did hang in there to go nearly 8 full innings and was able to get ground balls when he really needed them. So I'll call it a "gritty effort I wouldn't recommend trying to duplicate."
Meanwhile, Adam Kennedy's average sits at .400 after 55 ABs and there is joy in Oakland for at least one day.
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I like Powell’s bat, but having him limp around the bases all season isn’t exactly a good thing. The A’s should really put him on the DL and bring up Munson. Munson drove in five today!
by TBRMKane on May 24, 2009 4:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why have we all failed to point out Geren's ineptness in the bottom of the 8th inning - ie, not replacing
Powell on the bases. Korach, of all people, was questioning the decision not to pinch run for Powell. Geren got REAL lucky that the pitcher uncorked a wild pitch and Powell advanced to third – thereby enabling him to hobble home on the AK single. Had that wild pitch not happen we’d be staring at the possibility of having only the 4-2 lead going into the top of the ninth. Ergo, GEREN got extremely LUCKY – not to mention his luck in Powell not completely blowing out the hammy.
Had we lost because of that many of us would be bitching. It’s funny how wins make us blind to Geren’s idiocy.
by 33SwisherSweet on May 24, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this was pointed out in this thread
see below (8:12 Pm PDT)
by OaklandSi on May 24, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's that Suzuki had the day off and it meant the day off
Pinch running for Powell would have meant Suzuki catching the 9th (probably being the pinch runner too) and the issue of whether Suzuki would play outside of an emergency was decided (one way or the other) before the game.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that says about all we need to know about Geren and this team.
He’d rather stick to some bogus rule than 1) give his team the best chance to win and 2) make sure his back up catcher doesn’t completely blow out his hamstring.
That is the biggest joke I’ve ever heard and explains alot about Geren’s lack of killer instinct. Complete garbage.
Day off means day off? Managers need to be flexible. Good managers make sure to win games they have in hand and forget about “hard-line” days off. 3 outs would not have killed Suzuki. That is just ridiculous.
The Day Off excuse cost us the seattle game as well.
by 33SwisherSweet on May 24, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what happens if Suzuki gets hurt?
Geren did exactly what he should’ve done. In this situation, you protect your starting catcher. I won’t hold it against you for making me defend Geren, just don’t do it again.
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kallus, you can defend Geren till the cows come home; it won't bother me one
way or the other.
Suzuki is just as likely to get hurt in the 3 outs he catches in the 9th inning as he is in any one inning he plays in any game of the year. What makes this 9th inning any more dangerous than innings one through nine in any given game? Nothing.
Strapping on the gear for one inning isn’t going to hurt anyone.
However, by keeping Powell in Geren doesn’t 1) give his team the best chance to win and 2) make sure his back up catcher doesn’t completely blow out his hamstring.
Baseball isn’t rocket science, the law, or the newspaper business. These people are not the most intelligent people in the world no matter how much you, or they, want to believe it. Strategically speaking, baseball is a simple game.
by 33SwisherSweet on May 24, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, but
if Suzuki gets hurt when he’s starting, you have Powell. if Powell starts and gets taken out, and Suzuki gets hurt, you literally have no catcher. At least with the former, you have a chance to call up a catcher from AAA. And trust me, the cows will be a hell of a long way from home before I defend Geren twice in a night. It may not bother you, but it bothers me. The number of things Geren has done right I can count on one hand. But still, Geren made the right move…the same move every manager would make.
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So pinch-running for Powell
with two out (where there was a 70% chance the inning was about to end anyway), in a game the team already led by 2 runs, was so urgently necessary that a catcher who has been over-extended couldn’t know from the night before that he could mentally take the day off? No.
By telling Suzuki the night before “you have tomorrow off” Suzuki got, mentally and physically, a full 36 hour break to recharge. That really does make a difference.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do any of you do anything physical in your life? Have any of you played baseball?
Catching for 3 outs in an inning isn’t going to hurt Suzuki whether he is mentally, physically, or otherwise set to take the day off. That is just a bogus excuse and an indefensible opinion in my mind.
by 33SwisherSweet on May 24, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I worked with professional baseball players for 8 years
and talked to many players, coaches, and managers about questions like this as part of forming the opinions I have today.
Baseball is a mental grind as well as a physical one. Most managers, probably including the very ones you admire, make a point of telling players the night before when they are getting a day off so that they can mentally relax for as long as possible.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way you weigh these alternatives baffles me
I’m sure it would baffle Suzuki as well. I’m 98% sure he’d tell you he didn’t need 9 full innings of “relaxation.”
Personally, I’d like to see Suzuki get more rest. I think Powell should get more starts than he does. First, Powell’s a good player himself and doesn’t hurt the team out there. Second, I want don’t want Suzuki to wear down in August just because he, like Kendall, is more strong-willed than the manager and basically writes his own name into the lineup all season long. I also saw a study recently (I wish I remembered where) indicating that catchers’ offense declined significantly when they caught more than 4 consecutive days. So I’m not opposed in principle to Suzuki getting his rest.
But 33SS is right here. Let’s weigh it up. On the one hand, you have a significantly reduced chance of winning the game with Powell out there – as you said, the wild pitch made the difference between 2 runs and 0 runs in the inning; without the wild pitch the A’s still lose a run. More importantly, if Powell has to run (and do you think he’s not going to try to push himself to score on a double?) he has a significant chance of really hurting himself. This guy has had more than his fair share of serious and even season-ending injuries, why put him in harm’s way gratuitously?
So the downside is quite significant. Balanced against all that, you have the absolute necessity of Suzuki getting one more inning’s worth of rest? Really? (So he can start the next 6 straight games before getting another day off?) Put him in for an inning or two where it makes sense, but give him more regular days off – that’s how you keep from boxing yourself in with the notion he’s been worked so hard he absolutely must have the full 9 innings no matter what. As for that “mental relaxation,” Suzuki surely understood (even if he wasn’t told it specifically) that he was the backup catcher that day if needed, given that he’s the only other catcher on the roster and the guy who’s starting is clearly still injured.
Your risk-benefit analysis doesn’t hold up in this instance.
by Faust on May 25, 2009 5:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind how many people Outman walks,
as long as he keeps them from scoring. I’ll just enjoy the fact that the A’s pitching staff didn’t embarrass itself today.
by AEP2007 on May 24, 2009 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I mind, just because it portends trouble ahead
Trying to succeed with those kinds of ratios generally works about once.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The peripherals weren't good
but I will take any kind of good outing by a starter right now.
Outman has had better BB/K ratios in other games, so I’m not going to read too much into today’s performance.
by bear88 on May 24, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seemed like he didn't have his slider
He hardly threw it for the first 3-4 innings so he was a two-pitch pitcher – which probably made him try to be more fine with his fastball and changeup, along with depriving him of his best strikeout pitch.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a great example of why lay scouting is poor.
Four days ago you said:
What has impressed me is that Outman’s changeup looks better and better, to where I believe it is a plus pitch to go with a solid slider and high-velocity fastball.
A plus pitch is a pitch that is significantly above average. Solid is an average pitch in scouts parlance. Your scouting report of a couple of days ago puts the, in your words, plus change up above the slider in terms of ability. However this comment puts the slider first (which the linear pitch weights show is correct). They contradict themselves. Essentially, my beef is that fan scouting is basically confirmation bias of fan opinion and is generally pretty muddled.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 25, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost every time you take issue with something I write,
you not only get caught up in irrelevant semantics (for example, “it’s a shame,” to most of us, means “it’s unfortunate,” not “the organization should be ashamed”), but more importantly you don’t appear to have read, accurately, what has actually been written. Keep reading what I wrote above until you are reading the words actually written, not what you wish I had said so you could act indignant.
As for the semantics, I don’t use “scout parlance” – when I said “plus” I meant “good” and when I said “solid” I meant “good” – instead of berating me, or picking apart semantics, why not just ask me which pitch I think is better? Answer: his slider. If it floats your boat, in the boxed quote above, change “plus” to “solid” – happy? Yay!!!!
Yet this is not even relevant to what I wrote above, as I wasn’t comparing the slider and changeup as pitches overall, as you will see if you read what I actually wrote.
Oh, and after I wrote the summary, Outman, in an interview, confirmed my eyeball report saying he realized by the 2nd inning that he didn’t have his slider and tried to figure out how to adjust accordingly.
Finally, lay scouting is poor. However, with pride I would say that my own lay-scouting is not poor. I know what to watch for, and I have spent years and years studying baseball in order to provide lay-scouting that is worthy of consideration. I’m sorry that you don’t have more respect for me and my observations.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 25, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you are going to play scout you shouldn't inappropriately use the terminology.
You in fact are getting caught up in semantics here. What I was saying was that the lack of standardization in terminology creates an ineffective way of expressing information in lay scouting. You were playing scout and because you used vocabulary from the technical scouting sphere in an inappropriate way for that sphere it disseminated misinformation. It is impossible to read the scouting report that you gave and not come to the conclusion that his change up is better than his slider if you know anything about scouting.
The term lay actually fits your experience quite well. Originally a lay person is a member of a religious order who is not ordained clergy is considered as a member of the laity, even though they are members of a religious order. You have much experience but are not employed as a scout. The fact that you can make these mistakes with your wealth of experience (which is far far more than the average fan) shows exactly why this type of scouting is unreliable.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 25, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt that any club seirously uses lay scouting in their evaluations
but that doesn’t mean it can’t be a valuable source of information for us fans. I think even expert means of evaluation can be erroneous — hey nothing’s perfect.
by OaklandSi on May 25, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Im not suggesting that clubs use scouting reports like Nico’s. They have a standardized scale that eliminates the kind of differences of descriptions that Nico and I are discussing. This is mainly a problem on places like Minorleagueball.com and here.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 25, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not actually a problem if you just consider
AN to be an internet bar where people don’t always choose their words carefully like they’re publishing a book, rather than seeing every off-hand comment as a thesis.
Sometimes I comment running into another room during a commercial break between innings; sometimes I speak emotionally and don’t even feel that way 5 minutes later; other times I speak carefully and thoughtfully. Which is fine, because THIS IS A FAN SITE THAT EXISTS PRECISELY FOR PEOPLE TO DO THAT.
Good grief.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 25, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then don't get on your high horse about how scouty you are...
if you A aren’t going to actually use anything close to the correct terminology or B are pulling things from thin air.
You haven’t responded at all to the substance of any of my points about how the writer/scouts’ decision to change the meaning of words conveys poor information often makes scouting more problematic than statistical measures.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 25, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's nothing of substance to address
“Oh noes, a guy once used a word when he should have used a different word, and in doing so has shattered the credibility of his own ability to assess talent by watching, and the credibility of all others who assess talent by watching!”
I also don’t really care what you think of my so-called “scouting”; my observations are for whoever is interested, no more no less.
I’m done, my good sir – argue with someone else.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 25, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm and trying to trivialize the arguement doesn't make it go away.
Also this:
I also don’t really care what you think of my so-called "scouting"
contradicts this:
I’m sorry that you don’t have more respect for me and my observations.
So if you’re going to cry about my “lack of respect” for your extraordinarily esteemed scouting could you please use either 20-80 values or correctly use terms like plus and solid.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 25, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically, the two statements don't contradict
since a pitcher’s “best strikeout pitch” does not necessarily need to be the highest on the plus, solid, below average scale. For instance, a pitcher can have a plus fastball and still have an average slider as his best strikeout pitch.
by LongLiveLangerhans on May 25, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bing bing bing!!! You win!!!!
Duchscherer’s best pitch overall? The cutter. Duchscherer’s best strikeout pitch? The curve.
It’s not just “technically” that the statements don’t contradict; they don’t contradict because the second statement says “depriving him of his best strikeout pitch,” not “depriving him of his best pitch,” which are two completely different statements.
However, for clarity let me repeat that I do not consider Outman’s changeup to be “great,” just coming along to be “good.” So while to me “plus” means “more than zero,” or “above average,” if it’s confusing to those who read scouting reports that use “plus” to mean “significantly above average,” please replace “plus” with “good” or “solid” in my previous post and have a plus solid nice day.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 25, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets address that
Why is the cutter Duke’s best pitch? Because you think so? Traditionally both Dukes cutter and his curve have approximate values when you use linear weights to the outcome of each pitch and put them on a per 100 pitch basis. I would also describe Duke as having two plus pitches rather than a best pitch and a best strikeout pitch, the cutter and the curve with average to solid average other offerings. Duke would also be described as having plus plus control/pitchability.
The problem Nico is that Outman’s slider is his best pitch and best strike out pitch but in a scouting scale you completely misplaced them. The problem is that if you don’t tell people exactly what you mean and vary from community standard definitions of words, so I cant replace those things accurately without this conversation where you are getting all mad. Therefore you as the scout/writer have failed to communicate what valuable information you may have.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 25, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't have any trouble understanding what Nico meant.
And you really could have made your points without antagonism.
by Faust on May 25, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To say that Outman's change up is becoming plus is a term of art
one that was butchered if Nico actually meant “more than zero” or “above average” (which in itself are different things).
And saying crap like
Finally, lay scouting is poor. However, with pride I would say that my own lay-scouting is not poor.
Will earn my antagonism every time.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 25, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like you lay in wait
for Nico to make a mistake and then POUNCE on it whenever (you think) it happens.
Geesh man. It’s a fan blog. Run by fans. Not by scouts.
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." -- Connie Mack
by GreenSocks on May 26, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most pitchers can win a game when they are pitching well, but only the good or very, very lucky can do it when they are not. Good luck to the lad.
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.
by Dalesman on May 25, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
slegnA meltdown in progress
Dodgers down 7-6 after Abreu misses a catch and the ball goes behind.
Dodgers have 2nd and 3rd with one out.
by Trainman on May 24, 2009 4:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good news
A’s win.
Better news – Mrs doctorK and I are taking our 8-year-old daughter to her first A’s game tomorrow. We’ll be in section 208, row 5 if anybody wants to come by and say hi.
"Until Holiday comes around, I will refer to him as Coors Light." Ak_A
by doctorK on May 24, 2009 4:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We'll be in section 218!
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 24, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this 'winning' is such a pleasant sensation
I’d like for it to be repeated.
I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too.
by ORthey on May 24, 2009 4:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well don't repeat it too much,
or you might grow hair on your palm
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 24, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giambi is impressed with Outman
He did say the difference is that he is getting ahead (in spite of 5 BB) of hitters and not having to throw the heater when behind in count. Which is a nice way of saying his fastball is straight and hittable.
Very good performance.
by Trainman on May 24, 2009 4:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...Didn't seem like he was ahead all that much today
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just got back from the game
A’s this season are 6-7 in games that I’ve attended. (Anyone want to give me a ticket for the next two days? Just kidding.)
After the first five innings (with the A’s down 1-0 after one of Outman’s five walks scored, and despite the A’s leaving too many runners on base) i was thinking that if the score ended that way I didn’t think it would be accurate to call this a pitcher’s duel. Thankfully the a’s had other ideas, and the offense came through – -and Outman managed to get through 7 2/3 innings.
Eric Byrnes dropped a circus catch attempt (thanks, Byrnesie!)
By the way: it was quite cold, as the sun never broke through the marine layer…but they say that it should be warmer and sunny tomorrow.
by OaklandSi on May 24, 2009 4:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I was listening to the radio for the Byrnes catch
Ken said something benign (because he’s Ken, and incapable of mean speech or thought) about that reminding us of the good old Byrnes days, and Vince said something like “Well, fans might have enjoyed watching him back then, but if he’d stayed on his feet instead of leaping sideways, he probably could have caught that ball”.
by Englishmajor on May 24, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally gratuitous dive...
Byrnes at his boneheaded worst…thank goodness he’s gone.
by skutch on May 24, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohh kay. Not a night game tonight then.
This long weekend is confusing me.
Sounds like Outman pitched pretty well. Nice to see him put in good starts back to back.
Hope it’s warmer at the Coliseum tomorrow!
Nico: Okay. We have twelve hours to make a really big pickle.
by pam5981 on May 24, 2009 5:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
nicely done nico
man, that adam kennedy was a decent pickup
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
by 9Custs on May 24, 2009 5:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no doubt about that
and Iwamura just got hurt today. AK47 was the protection just in case that happened. They have Zobrist, but I’m thinking that they wish they still had Kennedy, even more so now that he’s toting a .400 avg.
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it could have been
a sweep, but i will take 1 game………
it was a great start by outman, now only if we could get 5 josh outman and see giambi start to heat things up
by Wreckonized on May 24, 2009 6:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you mean 5 Josh Outmen
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on May 24, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 Joshes Outman?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice win. I was ready to cringe
when I fired up the macbook after the game having been out and about today.
alaska A residing in Idaho.
by ak_A on May 24, 2009 6:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
esploring Idaho?
My first thought...ESPN.com still has free content?
My second… you still read ESPN.com? -grover
by Leopold Bloom on May 24, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
looking for place to live around CDA
alaska A residing in Idaho.
by ak_A on May 24, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
California Dork Association?
I’m totally a member!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
please. I already knew that.
alaska A residing in Idaho.
by ak_A on May 24, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It looks cooler if you say "Cd'A"
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on May 24, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or at least more uniform
My first thought...ESPN.com still has free content?
My second… you still read ESPN.com? -grover
by Leopold Bloom on May 24, 2009 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice to get the win
But should have been a sweep
The A’s can’t afford many more series to turn out like this or the season will be over before the All Star Break
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
by BillMoresi on May 24, 2009 6:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
why?
why should it have been a sweep?
Friday and Saturday were one run games. Saturday was very, very, very winnable. It could have easily been an A’s sweep.
Someone posted the A’s record in one run games. It is very loopsided and will turn regress to the mean.
Team is bad but so are the D’backs and we should have taken that series, at least.
by Glomar on May 24, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
7-15 in "one-or-two run" games, I believe
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now...
…I can’t even get excited about a win. There’s always tomorrow, ya know.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
by UncleLeo on May 24, 2009 6:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
don't forget to flush
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 24, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
now that was funny.
My first thought...ESPN.com still has free content?
My second… you still read ESPN.com? -grover
by Leopold Bloom on May 24, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
late in the game when it was announced Montero would PH for Byrnes
I love how the crowd erupted into a roar of boos
Either they were disappointed with the decision or were in fact cheering “Boo-yrnes”
I'm a happy seal
by SwisherThresher on May 24, 2009 8:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I assumed it was "Moooooonteroooooo!"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So during the game, they showed the stat that
Powell was hitting like .467 with RISP. Too bad we didn’t have him last night to pinch hit for Hanny. Oh wait, we did. Thanks Geren.
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 8:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...If Powell had pinch hit and hit ANY ground ball
against the sinkerballer Qualls…C’mon.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I know. Powell's not a speedster. But man, .467 w/ RISP vs. 167 w/ RISP
with the game on the line? If he hits a grounder, then we’ll have had the same result that we did anyways. But a base hit would’ve 30% more likely, which is why I made the comment. You can always pinch run for him, once he’s hobbled to first base. And it’s not his fault that Selig doesn’t allow crutches on the fiels (lord knows there are times…)
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a good thing he homered
because he very clearly couldn’t run. In fact when he was at second base late in the game Korach and Vince were questioning why Geren didn’t pinch run somebody for him. If the Diamondback’s pitcher doesn’t throw that wild pitch Powell would not have been able to advance to third (and Cabrera to second), and I doubt Kennedy’s single would have scored Powell — that’s how gimpy he looked.
by OaklandSi on May 24, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's the ruling on wheelchairs?
does the front wheel have to touch the base, or does the player have to lean over and touch the bag? I was never clear on that…
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think ADA regulations say that if any wheel hits the bag
you have to accept it. Also the last 30 feet between home and first are a blue zone, which is why the Diamondbacks’ first base coach got that $212.00 ticket.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no wheeled device! now walkers, no wheels, but
with tennis balls on the legs are okay. Crutches, canes are okay too.
alaska A residing in Idaho.
by ak_A on May 24, 2009 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if crutches were ok, then the batboy would've had them ready for Powell
at least, I think.
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn Nico, that's good info!
now I’m thinking it’s a moot point, since I’ve yet to see a dugout that was wheelchair-accessible, much less one with a power lift. Oh well. Maybe in our children’s lifetime…
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know who could use a power lift?
{The A’s}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
paging Victor Conte...
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we have a rotation finally?
Last 6 games:
39IP 6.5 per start
27 hits— excellent
11 walks— good (only Outman’s start today featured any real wildness)
WHIP— 0.97
ER— 9
ERA— 2.08
K— 24 - decent- the outlier again is today’s Outman start.
Yes, it’s a small sample size but it’s the first stretch of stable starting pitching the team has had all year. Of course the performance of the likes of Springer, Bailey, Ziegler and Casilla left something to be desired— maybe they have been overworked and will settle in now. We can only hope.
by jasonthea on May 24, 2009 8:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel pretty good about the rotation in general,
in that I think Braden and Anderson are really solid, Cahill is coming along (I feel like now is right about when he should have been called up), Outman is proving to be at least serviceable, and you have Mazzaro sooner, Duchscherer later, on the way.
Now if only Gallagher and/or Gio could get their head screwed on straight…Grrr…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope Mazzaro gets the call in Chicago. I’m anxious to see this guy.
by TBRMKane on May 24, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's when I'd expect him to be called up
One more start for Sacramento, then called up five days later. Of course he could be called up for the double-header Friday in Texas, but it appears E. Gonzalez is definitely making that start. Maybe the A’s don’t want Mazzaro to make his debut in Arlington – which sounds like a good idea to me too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mazzaro is sinker/slider guy, right?
by TBRMKane on May 24, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much - he's a power pitcher
whose fastball gets up into the 93-94MPH range but with some sinking action, kind of like Huddy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one, and I mean absolutely no one,
should have to make their MLB debut in Arlington. Can you hate a young man that much?
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mychael Urban thinks June 2 will be Mazzaro's debut
Jon Becker, on the other hand, notes that in order for Mazzaro to be called up and stay up this season without becoming a SuperTwo he could not be called up before June 7.
If a rookie is up with the big club more than 85 days between April 1 and August 31 he becomes a SuperTwo, and will go through arbitration four times instead of three times. It can of course be avoided by sending the rookie back down. But I don’t see the point of sending Mazzaro down once he’s called up (or Anderson or Cahill) unless they feel that any of them are not doing well with the big club.
by OaklandSi on May 24, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given that the difference is 5 days,
if they want to call Mazzaro up June 2nd, the A’s could send him down after his last pre ASB start and then not call him up until the 5th day after the ASB – that way he doesn’t miss a start but loses super-2 eligibility.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's true
I’m just wondering whether they would prefer to avoid sending a good-performing rookie pitcher down, and just wait the few extra days.
by OaklandSi on May 24, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't there a 10 day minimum that a player
has to stay down before being called up again (except in case of injury)?
by OaklandSi on May 24, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but the ASB is July 13th-15th
Say Mazzaro pitches on July 10th. He isn’t scheduled to make another start before the ASB, so you “send him down” after that start (tell him not to bother packing a suitcase; he doesn’t actually have to go anywhere).
Then after the ASB you go (for example):
July 16th – Braden
July 17th – Anderson
July 18th – Cahill
July 19th – Outman
July 20th – Mazzaro, called up after 10 days to make the start.
No missed start, no “super 2”…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wouldn't the playes union
see through that?
by Future Ed on May 25, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they see through it
but it’s an actual loophole in the CBA as negotiated, then they’ll have to suck it up and propose closing the loophole the next time the contract is negotiated.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on May 25, 2009 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd let Egon have another start.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 25, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't the SuperTwo deadline variable?
I thought the formula depended on other players, so you can estimate about where the cutoff is going to be but you can’t pinpoint an exact date.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on May 24, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it's really a
Super 1.9-2.1?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've looked this up several times
I believe this is the most recent version, from the MLB Players’ Association:
Q: When does a player become eligible for salary arbitration?
A: A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a “Super Two” and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.
by OaklandSi on May 24, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like the key word is "and"
That if you have fewer than 86 days you CAN’T qualify no matter what – but even you have 86 days, you still also have to rank in the top 17%.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not clear about what being in the
“top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players”…(etc) is supposed to mean as far as qualifying the total number of days.
by OaklandSi on May 24, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it means that among those who accumulate 86+ days,
only those who are in the top 17% (83rd percentile) of “most days” are Super 2s.
So if days, from among those eligible, looked like:
86, 86, 87, 87, 87, 88
only the last one would qualify.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically, if I'm understanding it correctly
even from among those “86+ ers” only 1/6 of them – those with the very most service days – will qualify.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
is there a way we can use this esoteric rule to screw the angels?
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 24, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not it
Not the top 17% of guys with 2 years plus 86 days service time, but rather the top 17% of guys in the 2-year to 3-year service time bracket (as it says quite clearly), provided that at least 86 days of that MLB service time came in the immediately preceding season.
So people (including Jon Becker in the comment that OaklandSi references above) are completely misinterpreting this. JUNE 7 HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING. If Mazzaro comes up on June 7 and never gets sent down again, he’ll have 2 years and 85 days service time at the end of the 2011 season. At that point he’ll have had (obviously!) much more than 86 days in the “immediately preceding season,” and whether he’s a super-two or not will depend entirely on whether he’s in the top 17% service time in the two-to-three-year class. Whether he only gets in 85 days’ service time in his rookie season is utterly irrelevant, unless 85 days is little enough to keep him out of the top 17%.
Exactly how much service time will put you in the top 17% after the 2011 season won’t be known until after the 2011 season. Although you could make a pretty good guess by looking at where the service time boundary line has been for super-twos in previous years and making a projection.
Ah! I finally found something that looks useful.
No Super Two had less than two years, 130 days service time any of the last three winters. Alex Rios, Randy Flores and Antonio Perez all went to arbitration for the first time with two years, 130 days service time before the 2007 season.If this is true, there’s already no chance Mazzaro is a super-two under the scenario we’re discussing (gets called up, never gets sent down again).
The most service time a Super Two player could have is two years, 171 days. Any more than that and the player has three years.
Since 2007, the average Super Two has had two years and 148 days of service time.
by Faust on May 25, 2009 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But where would they pitch??
Braden— he’s in for good
Anderson— as you have pointed out, he might be the A’s best starter
Duke— he’s in this rotation whenever healthy
Outman— He’s pitching like he’s gonna stay
Cahill— will be replaced by Mazzaro eventually but Edgar takes the first hit
Mazzaro— coming
I think Gio and Gallagher are now trade bait more than anything else. I don’t see either making a major contribution for the rest of this season unless there is an injury or two. Maybe next year.
by jasonthea on May 24, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're assuming full health and no implosion
and recent history tells us loud and clear that if you want to have 5 starters you’d better have 7 starters. Whether it’s Anderson getting another blister, Cahill having a “tired arm,” Outman going back to being a 4.1IP, 3 ER pitcher, or Pepe talking a line drive off his mustache, you don’t want to be too quick to deal “excess” parts when you’re talking about a starting rotation.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also, Gio and Gallagher would have to have several good outings
if they want to use them as trade chips….and since both were so highly considered by the A’s I doubt that they would give up so quickly anyway.
by OaklandSi on May 24, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anderson is the A's best starter?
No way… obviously, it is Outman. He’s undefeated (2-0) with a 2.90 ERA. Anderson’s ERA is 5.54 and he’s 1-4. Eveland has won as many games (and lost 2 fewer)!!!
"I’m actually a disgrace to myself right now." - Sean Gallagher (quoting me after a night out on the town)
by FoolshGame22 on May 24, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend not to look at wins when judging a pitcher
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on May 25, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last six games, pretty good
Just don’t carry that all the way back to the last 10 games! It gets ugly in a hurry with four more games tacked on.
Still, better the six good ones being the most recent ones than the other way around.
by Faust on May 25, 2009 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
gio is
actually not that bad, hes improved. his ERA is inflated because geren left him out their to die that day………
he might need some more seasoning, but i think he could turn things around
by Wreckonized on May 24, 2009 9:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He'll be as good as he can throw strikes
What worries me is that his track record in this area is not good. What gives me hope is that he has a true “strikeout / swing through” pitch with the big curve. His ceiling appears to be Zito, while worst case scenario appears to be Zito.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 24, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldnt mind
if he can be somewhat like zito
hate the man all you want, but when you really look into his stats, he is still a pretty good pitcher
its just the run support is not there
by Wreckonized on May 24, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly O/T Joe Mauer
is currently making other hitters look like Jack Hannahan.
ALready won a batting title which of course is amazing for a catcher and now the power. I wonder how many years they leave him catching?
by Trainman on May 25, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I watched last night's Minn-Milwaukee game
quite remarkable the surge in power from Mauer…the game announcers talked extensively about it.
by OaklandSi on May 25, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This guy is just a natural hitter
He is pulling the ball now. He’s a big guy
People will speculate that he is juicing but I say “No way in hell” is he doing that. Of course I do not know that but you know that’s something people are going to think
He is flat out good and so is Morneau. They have to be far and away the best LH tandem in baseball
Drafted by that other low payroll team. Wonder why we can’t draft hitters half as good
by Trainman on May 25, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say we DO draft hitters half as good
The guys we draft hit .160 all the time.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 25, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Pulling the Ball
Last night’s homerun was his first homerun that he pulled over the wall. The rest have been opposite field or to center. HitTracker
Dave Cameron over at Fangraphs talked about Mauer in his article, Mauer Power.
Mauer’s a great hitter, and he’s having a great month. There’s probably some real power growth being displayed as he’s muscling balls over the wall in left field, but if he ever wants to be a 30+ home run guy, he’s going to have to pull the ball with some authority, and he’s not doing that right now.
I love Joe Mauer as a player, but if you were thinking that he’s showing signs of becoming one of the game’s elite sluggers, I don’t think it’s in the cards. He’s a fantastic hitter, but I wouldn’t count on seeing too many more months like this any time soon.
by LongLiveLangerhans on May 25, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were the Twins, I'd tell Mauer to forget about hitting 30 HRs
and just keep doing exactly what he’s doing. It ain’t broke; far from it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 25, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
and hitting in front of Morneau sure doesn’t hurt Mauer either
by OaklandSi on May 25, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no such thing as protection.
“BP told me so. Therefore, my MVP is valid.”
My first thought...ESPN.com still has free content?
My second… you still read ESPN.com? -grover
by Leopold Bloom on May 25, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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