Criminal Managing: Geren Is Proving "Beyond A Reasonable Doubt" He's A Terrible Strategist
by Nico on May 2, 2009 9:37 AM PDT
159 comments
First of all, let me say that in my time on AN, I have spent more time defending A's managers than criticizing them - Geren included. That's because every fan thinks his/her team's manager uniquely messes up tactical decisions when the reality is that most managers have an idea of what they're doing, most decisions are arguable either way, and most moves - no matter which direction the manager goes - will make the manager look good or bad based on how the players perform.
As an example, I'll defend Geren for his ill-fated decision to leave Eveland in as long as he did last night. The decision was driven largely by the unavailability of Ziegler, Casilla, and Bailey, the fact that Springer and Wuertz had pitched the day before, and thus the realization that pulling Eveland in the 5th would inevitably mean pitching Giese for 3 innings and then still having 2 innings left to navigate - and heaven forbid the game go extra innings. It was a lose-lose choice and that is not the basis for declaring a manager incompetent.
Yet last night highlighted how little a feel Bob Geren has for tactical decision-making, as he made two blunders that reflect a lack of understanding about basic odds and risk/reward assessment.
The first was the decision to have Travis Buck bunt with Suzuki at second and nobody out in the 8th inning of a 7-7 game. When deciding whether or not to bunt, Geren routinely ignores crucial factors in the simplistic (and sometimes false) reasoning that "bunting gives us a better chance to score one run." The batter was Buck and the next two hitters were Crosby and Patterson. Against a right-handed pitcher, which one of those three, if all three swung away, was most likely to get a hit? Which was most likely to strikeout? What Geren did was to take the bat out of the hands of his best hitter of the three, hoping to get a runner to third with one out for Crosby. And then if that didn't get the job done, leave it up to Patterson.
Meanwhile, left-handed hitters have a far easier job advancing runners from second to third. Why? Because if you pitch inside to a right-handed batter, it's relatively hard for them to hit the ball on the ground to the right side. In contrast, if you pitch away to a left-handed hitter it's relatively easy to reach out and pull the ball to the right side (see Eric Chavez and Jason Giambi when they're in a slump, pulling pitches they shouldn't be trying to pull). So you had a situation where your best hitter of the three was up, was in a great position to advance the runner even if he didn't get a hit, and you ask him to bunt with a hitter on deck who doesn't make a lot of contact and a hitter after him who has never hit major league pitching well. Just not smart.
And yet asking Buck to bunt was downright brilliant in contrast with the decision to walk Russell Branyan to load the bases in the 9th. There is a reason small samples are to be avoided like the plague: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Russell Branyan is not a .333 hitter; he is in fact a career .233 hitter. Russ Springer can get lefties out regardless of how the first 16 hitters have fared against him this season.
In that situation Branyan was going to be as lethal as his batting average, whereas Lopez was going to be as lethal as his on base percentage. Facing Branyan, Springer could have buried cutters on his terms, whereas with Lopez Springer did not want to risk going 3-2 and kept leaving cutters up - Lopez fouled off about 4 mistakes before his game-winning hit. Springer could have come inside and hit Branyan, but he couldn't risk hitting Lopez so he lost some of the plate there too.
The only time you can justify walking the bases loaded in that situation is when the hitter in front of you has a better expected batting average than the on deck hitter has an expected on base percentage. (This is rare because few hitters are going to be career .300 hitters while few hitters will have career OBPs under .300.) When might I walk the bases loaded in that situation? If Ichiro was up with Yuniesky Betancourt on deck, it makes sense - but of course that would require Don Wakamatsu to be dumb enough to bat his low OBP, low OPS shortstop #2 in the batting order. Oh.
And all this was just yesterday's game. (Prior to Friday's game, I thought the decision to bring the infield in, 2nd and 3rd, against Brett Gardner in the 2nd inning of a 0-0 game in New York was "rock bottom" incompetence.) This is not about "Geren made two bonehead decisions on Friday!" This is about the fact that Geren has shown, throughout the season so far, an inability to grasp when a bunt makes sense and when it doesn't, whether to bench Buck, Sweeney, or Rajai Davis against LHP when the team isn't hitting a lick overall, when to consider a month's stats or a 10 year body of work when assessing whether a guy gets 233 or 333 hits out of 1,000, and how much it restricts a pitcher's ability to pitch on his terms - and how important it is for him to be able to pitch on his terms - when you walk the bases loaded.
Every fan thinks his/her manager lacks the competence to make tactical decisions. However, sometimes the fans are right and this time they're right. And given the personal connection between Billy Beane and Bob Geren, I'd say that if he wants to put the team first Billy has himself a mess worse than the one Springer faced yesterday.
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Geren has always been horrible
Geren is a joke he should have been fired at the end of last season. Considering the fact at how pathetic the A’s played in the second half even though at the all-star break they were only four games out.
Geren doesn’t understand the meaning of the word strategy. He cares more about his players being happy then fielding a winning team and it’s time for his dismissal. Billy Beane needs to wake up from his slumber and fire Geren immediately.
Injuries and trades
The only year Geren should be judged for is this year and so far it doesn’t look good for him.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
he shouldn't be judged too harshly for the past two years,
but they do factor into the feeling of discontent.
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 2, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Everyone
knew, as soon as first base was once again occupied, a homer was coming. Everyone. I still think leaving Eveland in was a big mistake. No matter what you have in the pen.
For better or worse
The A’s under Billy Beane have never viewed the manager as someone who makes a difference. Maybe Geren will finally be the impetus that forces the A’s to make the relatively modest investment required to get a good one.
On another note, Dana Eveland is proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he is not good at pitching. It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if the A’s simply released him before he gets any more expensive.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
trade Eveland to an NL team desperate for a left handed pitcher.
the guy just does not have the moxie or the consistency to pitch in the big leagues….at least not in the AL. nice post though, Nico….glad to see you calling out the big fish in the pond. It’s on Billy just as much as it is on Geren, if not more. A great example of this is Doug Wilson of the SJ Sharks. Yesterday he was doing an interview on the radio and put the failure of the team on his shoulders, first. Before he made any personnel moves, he said he needed to evaluate “himself” first, and then he would be able to make player and personnel changes moving forward. So, I really appreciate that kind of mentality of “everyone needs to look in the mirror, including me” from a GM. Very refreshing to hear this from someone who has had alot of success with good teams during th regular season but not in the playoffs, especially the latest failure. Go A’s!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Speaking of Beane/management vs. Geren:
Casilla unavailable yesterday, expected to go on the DL today. Why was the team playing a reliever short last night? Had Gio been called up, at the very least Outman could have been available in relief if necessary (as I noted in the thread after the 7 inning).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
what did you expect?
chavez to play 140 games? duchshererererer to make 30 starts?
muahahhahahhahahhaaha
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
SluSu on Cardenas
Adrian Cardenas, obtained in the Joe Blanton deal with the Phillies last summer, was promoted to Sacramento to replace Petit. Cardenas had been playing shortstop at Double-A, and well enough that the A’s believe he might be an option for them there, at least occasionally, as soon as next season.
That’s very interesting. Cardenas as an average fielder at SS sounds like he could be a very very good player.
A year ago, who expected Doolittle and Cardenas to get lots of playing time at Sacto in May of 09? Not me.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Makes his decisions worse
While yes, he had one fewer pitcher last night, he also knew then that tonight he’d have a fresh arm available.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Possilby seeing how Casilla responded to treatment
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Just curious
are we sure that buck didn’t try to bunt on his own? it looked almost as if he was trying to bunt for a hit. frustrating either way.
I doubt it
I’m willing to bet that few A’s players have a green light to bunt whenever they think they should. (Just as few have gotten a green light to decide when to try stealing a base.) I’d be shocked if Buck didn’t get the sign to attempt a bunt.
some of those players...
…I wonder if they have to get the green light to take a shit after attacking the postgame spread…
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 2, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also
is anyone at all one this team a good bunter? Do scouts even keep track of that anymore? For my money, that’s the single biggest factor to consider when deciding whether or not to bunt.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Buck considers himself "an excellent bunter"
He’s not exactly hitting well, and possesses a high pct. of strikeouts. I don’t really think this was a bad move, if Buck was bunting for a base hit. You figure that (1) he would certainly advance the runner if the bunt was fair (2) he would have avoided striking out, which he has been doing a lot…and the effect would have been as poor with a strikeout as with the pop foul (3) with his speed, he would force a close play at first, and we know those are always potential error situations.
Swinging away, I could see many types of “in play” situations with peril: (1) comebacker to the pitcher, and Suzuki hung out at second (2) lineout to the outfield, with Suzuki again in peril. (3) Groundball to second, with a play at third.
Buck ain’t exactly I. Suzuki with the bat. I believe this was a good tactic under the situation. Patterson and Crosby simply cannot be given a “pass” if they cannot produce. All batters in a lineup must be capable of 60% of the time driving in a runner from third with less than two outs. If they do NOT have that potential, then no admission to the Big Show…period!
'I never predict anything, and I never will.' Paul Gascoigne, footballer
by One won lost won on May 2, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
See I think what you're really saying is that Crosby and Patterson
should not be in the big leagues. I couldn’t agree more. But if they’re what’s up next, let Buck swing. Sure he may hit a comebacker or a pop fly to left. And Crosby may strikeout or he may triple. But of the three, Buck does have the best chance of getting a hit, Crosby the best chance of striking out, so I say…play the situation with the hitters you have, not just the situation in a vacuum.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I consider myself an excellent cook
but I bet I’d be embarrassed in less than five seconds by Mario Batali. I’m not so sure he is, since he has three sacrifice bunts in his entire professional career—including the minors.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
perhaps if you bunt when no one is on base
you cannot get an official “sacrifice”.
'I never predict anything, and I never will.' Paul Gascoigne, footballer
by One won lost won on May 2, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Crosby laid down a great drag bunt in TX the other night
not that that proves he’s good if he’s trying to sacrifice.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
One thing I'll disagree with is not pulling Eveland sooner
I understand using Giese for three innings and then having little to bridge the gap to the 8th and 9th but you have to deal with that situation if and when it’s warranted. If you want to worry about who’s going to close out a lead, you have to get there with the lead in the first place.
The reason I say it in this case is Kevin Cameron. Yes, I understand they just brought the guy up but this isn’t a situation where he’d be making his major league debut in a pressure situation. He’s pitched effectively in the Majors before. Whether you use him to try to bail Eveland out and go an inning or two there before using Giese, or whether you use Giese earlier in the 5th and bring Cameron in for the 8th, why leave Cameron in the bullpen entirely?
Geren’s had to use the bench a bit more due to injuries but he’s falling into the trap of relying too much on a few pitchers out of the bullpen to the point of overworking them while others don’t get enough work. We can’t say Cameron hasn’t had enough work yet because he just got called up, but if you’re going to bring a guy up you’d better use him in a game like this. If they don’t think he can help them win, why bring him up in the first place?
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
agree with you
Eveland should have been puleed after the first two run HR.,,,and since they thought Cameron was a good choice to bring up, why not use him?
agree with that
Cameron’s a big leaguer, or…not?
'I never predict anything, and I never will.' Paul Gascoigne, footballer
by One won lost won on May 2, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes
He should have been pulled earlier.
You worry about winning the game and then the billpen falling apart. Cameron had not pitched and he could not pissibly be any worse than Eveland as no one could IMO.
Geren is a horrible manager in most facets of the game and Billy need to evaluate the puppets he hires
Terrible strategist indeed
We’re stuck with him, though. I am constantly throwing my hands up in the air at the TV due to Geren’s ineptitude. As soon as Buck popped up the bunt, I knew they were not going to score.
Oh, and yes please send Eveland out. Isn’t starting pitching supposed to be the A’s area of depth?
Gonzalez, De Los Santos, Anderson, Cahill, Simmons...the best rotation in baseball....in, uh 2010.
I used to throw my hands up at the television set.
Now I just throw the t.v. Expensive habit of mine lately. Geren make me not enjoy A’s baseball so much these days.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Oh, and +1 on the Kevin Cameron thing...
Gonzalez, De Los Santos, Anderson, Cahill, Simmons...the best rotation in baseball....in, uh 2010.
Nice
that’s is exactly right. Don’t worry too much until the situation arises. Pull Eveland, take your chances with a two run lead
Just to play devil's advocate
And defending Geren these days makes that phrase strangely apt, there were some extenuating circumstances on the Branyan walk that at least makes the decision plausible. (I still don’t agree for the reasons Nico outlined)
1) Springer had been lights out so far this year vs. righties— they were 0-24 entering last night’s game;
2) He had been getting hit hard by lefties— 5 for 8 I believe.
3) Despite the differences between Branyan and Lopez in career average, the fact is that Springer’s platoon difference was over 100 pts in terms of OPS— so one can argue that his career odds were pretty similar once you balance the two sets of stats out;
4) Branyan had been Seattle’s hottest hitter the past week and went yard and hit a deep fly ball earlier in this game;
That said Nico is still right. I don’t want to face a slap hitter like Lopez when the situation dictates that you have to throw strikes. I’d rather have taken my chances with better pitches that could have struck Branyan out or induced him to hit a can of corn somewhere.
One question to those who saw the game— how far in front of Buck did the hit land? Because if it was within 10 feet then I wonder about his positioning— in that situation, vs. a RHB with little or no power, he should have been at least 20 feet, if not more— closer to the infield than normal.
It was actually 9 for 16 for lefties against Springer
But when you factor in the “can pitch carefully / as you wish” to Branyan vs. “have to throw a strike, can’t go 3-2” to Lopez, I think the 9 for 16 is illusory – you don’t have to throw Branyan a pitch to hit at any point if you don’t want to. More to the point, this is precisely why small samples are dangerous. 0-24 vs. righties was as reliable an indicator of future performance as Eveland’s 0.0 HR/9IP ratio was.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
agreed....
but I don’t think the big sample was conclusive as to which was the tougher out. Geren’s mistake was not giving the situation more importance— that’s what tilts the scales away from the walk.
that was the other thing about the hit by Lopez
I didn’t understand why Buck was not playing more shallow because if anything, you want to avoid a blooping fly ball or short line drive with the bases juiced and two outs.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
so are you saying he was too far back...
and could have caught it playing in more?
If so that’s a bigger screwup than the walk, and again goes directly back to Geren. The odds that Jose Lopez would hit a deep fly ball or even a screaming liner over Buck’s head were much lower than that he would do just what he did— a looper or soft liner into short right field.
I agree the OF should be relatively shallow there
(“no singles” defense, essentially), because a single and double are identical, but seeing the hit I’d say it was a well-struck line drive that you wouldn’t expect Buck to get to no matter how he was positioned.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
BTW, I also want to point out that this point is entirely about tactical decisions,
and doesn’t even broach issues like the fact that the team has come out of the longest spring training in club history looking like they have no idea how to bunt or how to run the bases.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How is the Sacramento rotation looking?
Is Gallagher being stretched out? Surely we can’t let Eveland start another game.
Gallagher - only one start so far
3 IPs…I think he needs more time
Gio on the other hand is probably going to be the first one called up
Problem that I see is we have soooooo many people landing the DL, as bad as it sounds, we might want to think about keeping Eveland in the pen and sending cameron back down
I think another trip back to AAA might behoove Eveland.
They’re going to need his innings badly later in the season. Better make sure he’s ironed out whatever is wrong by that point.
Baseball isn't magic.
His health and innings are among the reasons I favor Eveland as a long reliever
His aggravating way of getting through 4.2 IP would serve the A’s well as a long reliever, whereas they are deadly as a starter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Agreed
If you’re using a long reliever you’re in trouble as far as winning the game is concerned anyway, so I don’t particularly care if the long reliever isn’t exactly mowing people down.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
as well as 3 bombs and coughing up a 5 run lead in that span.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Only problem there is bringing him in with runners on
I wouldn’t feel that great about a situation where Cahill can’t get out of the 5th, has walked the first 2 hitters, and then Eveland comes in to put the fire out and pitch 3 or 4 more innings.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
It would be more "can't get out of the third"
Especially with the A’s, who seem to think that if you don’t use your long reliever by the 3rd he should not pitch under any circumstances.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
very little pitching for Sacramento by Gallagher so far
from the Rivercats’ website:
Player W L ERA PCT WHIP G GS CG SHO SV IP H
S Gallagher 0 0 0.00 0.33 1 1 0 0 0 3.0 0
Problem was his game last night was shortened by weather
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
It's now 5 IP, 0 hits, 0 runs, 3 BB, 7 K
Which is kind of interesting.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hardenesque, ironically
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
not its not interesting...
the no hits is good, but the walk rate is too high.
i agreed with you, nico, on the eveland vs braden debate, but all of the a’s minor league pitchers walk way too many guys. same goes for gio, who is apparently on the big club now. he will K a lot of guys, but he’ll walk too many as well.
by inbillywetrust on May 2, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought interesting was a subjective concept - my bad!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
ok, it's interesting if you want to write another post...
about an A’s pitcher not able to command the strike zone.
by inbillywetrust on May 2, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
This is a gem of a post.
I am careful not to play armchair manager, simply because, but I have learned to trust Nico’s opinion over the years, even as he defended Geren. I often wondered if he would be tempted to sugarcoat things if Geren were to, for lack of better words, start sucking. Last night Nico said he “would tell it like it is”. Today he did. Rather eloquently, I might add.
But aside from the commentary itself, he broke it down in a way that even a mind like mine could grasp and digest.
Outstanding read.
I'm here to talk about the past.
Normally I give managers the benefit of the doubt as well
Not so much any more with Geren.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Seriously?
Geren is the least of this team’s problems
who the hell puts a signature above their screen name???
Just because
there are other problems doesn’t mean we should ignore the fact that the manager doesn’t consistently put his team in the best position to win games. And IMO, all the players on the DL and the general suckitude over the first month make Geren’s incompetence a big deal. This is a team that needed everything to go just right for it to compete; that obviously hasn’t happened, and it certainly doesn’t help that the manager is adding to the team’s disadvantages.
(Great screen name, by the way.)
"We are a complete freak show." -- Billy Beane
Plus, Branyan stikes out 2–3 times more often than Lopez.
That’s exactly what you’re looking for in that situation.
Baseball isn't magic.
Tonight we are on MLB network...
and it will be hard to watch because of last night…
Really?
It’s a whole new game. Different pitchers, new day, all that.
Though I’m starting to wonder why you watch the games at all considering how down you always are about the team.
I’m looking forward to the throwback uniforms the teams are wearing tonight along with another chance at a win.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
I wish it was a home game
I’d love to see the uniforms in person….even better if it was a jersey giveaway day.
Serious answer
I’m starting to wonder why you watch the games at all considering how down you always are about the team
Some people enjoy sports as a vehicle for venting negative feelings. No, I don’t enjoy seeing it on the game threads either, but we each are entitled to our own reasons for loving the game.
(Not necessarily saying Socalfan21 is one of these. I don’t know him/her.)
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
All I know is he's in game threads a lot cussing out players and bringing a very negative vibe in
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
I too dislike the negative vibe.
I was taking your “I’m starting to wonder why” literally.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Thank you Nico for saying what I've been thinking for the better part of
the last year. To date, his “tactical/strategic” moves have been atrocious. No way Billy fires his best man. Should have never been hired in the first place.
by 33SwisherSweet on May 2, 2009 10:57 AM PDT reply actions
"Criminal Manager"
Now we’ve got a “CM” to go with a “GM”.
'I never predict anything, and I never will.' Paul Gascoigne, footballer
by One won lost won on May 2, 2009 10:58 AM PDT reply actions
I think this is symbolic of how "simple minded" most baseball lifers are.
They speak in cliches/baseball talk and don’t understand the more abstract/complex statistical/probability based principles that influence the outcome of the game. It’s always blown my mind that these announcers/sportscasters speak with such reverence for anyone inside the game. I suppose it’s a case of the blind leading the blind?
The A’s revolutionized the front offices of baseball everywhere with their application of statistical analysis to the game. It’s about time they got someone in that dugout who had an understanding of the same.
by 33SwisherSweet on May 2, 2009 11:05 AM PDT reply actions
Completely agree
While the manager’s decisions might only have a minimal impact at only two or three spots in a given game and that even the right decision might lead to failure when the players don’t succeed, wouldn’t it still make sense to maximize those opportunities by having someone making the correct decision (regardless of outcome) instead of just throwing anyone in the dugout guessing? And even if labeling the “right” decision is difficult at best, it seems clear that Geren is making the wrong decisions, arguably, far too often to be considered good. And why settle for “Meh” when you can pay a little more and put yourself in a position to potentially pick up 2 or 3 more games a season when the moves are successful?
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Well put - I don't begrudge the arguable moves I haven't personally agree with
I begrudge the obvious blunders. And even if the blunders don’t always “cost games outright,” they put the team at a further disadvantage. For example, Eveland is responsible for the team not winning last night; Geren may be responsible for the team not being tied after 9 – that makes Eveland by far the bigger problem, but Geren’s moves sure didn’t help.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
well unfortunately
either Beane doesn’t see it that way, or protecting his buddy is more important than trying to win. I’ve never been a fan of Geren but I’m afraid the A’s are stuck with him
Wang’s ERA is the same as the balance in my checkbook - Jennifer
I have been worried that hiring a buddy
would cloud Beane’s objectivity, despite his claims that it wouldn’t.
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on May 2, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Totally OT
Pulled this from the Rangers/CHW GDT from last night…
Anyone have a comment?
All i can say is it scares me and makes me want to curl up in the fetal position and cry…
You can now go back to your regular programming, if your eyes haven’t already been burned out by that Medusa looking thing
I...
…there are no words.
No good ones, anyway.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Spreading the Disease
/Anthrax
BTW, she’s a CWS fan.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
someone needs to work on their
rally salma.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on May 2, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
it's frank francisco's mom
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on May 2, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
OMG I saw her at spring training!
March 22 when the White Sox were at the A’s. She was sitting down by the field on the Sox side. These drunk guys behind me were calling her Dog the Bounty Hunter. I feel like I know a famous person now.
AN was so much better before I got here.
that's hot
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
Geren is a "tool".
Look folks as the season progresses there is only one reason why he is coaching this team. Beane should be embarassed to have this fool coaching. Just keep making mistakes and gets away with it.
You are right Nico
One other thing I would rather see Jack hannahan playing third and Crosby at 2nd. It would give us better defense since the offense couldn’t go down any less.
Exactly right
Crosby is terrible at third, cringe-worthy. Hannahan isn’t any worse at offense than Patterson but plays a pretty good third base.
I’m surprised opposing teams haven’t been bunting to Crosby in almost every at-bat. He’s that lost out there.
by coffee roaster on May 2, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Who's to Fault???
If Beane fires Geren, Beane is basically firing himself. Beane is the guy who keeps signing washed up players (Nomar, Big Hurt, Giambi, Emil Brown, Piazza) , and counting on players (Chavez, Ellis, Crosby, Harden, Duchscherer) who can’t stay on the field on a consistent basis.
How would Geren do with a team that could consistenly stay on the field? Maybe he wouldn’t be forced to make horrible decisions???
how can geren be forced into making bad decisions???
he chose to walk branyan and pitch to jose lopez. those washed up players and the injury prone players you speak of have nothing to do with his decision to pitch to the most productive guy on the mariners team……
Just sayin...
Beane needs to look in the mirror. Can you fire your Best Man knowing deep inside that you haven’t put him a position to succeed???
by Colorado Fan on May 2, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
FYI
Nico, great diary. I hope I don’t seem like I didn’t read the entire article. I did. I agree…. but???
by Colorado Fan on May 2, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree - I think it's implied that the boss' boss has culpability
Terry Francona, Ron Washington, and Don Wakamatsu are among many that the A’s have let leave while Geren stayed. Oakland has had many options and made the choices it made – if they are bad choices, the buck stops (not bunts, stops) with the GM.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How did Beane not give Geren a chance to succeed?
The A’s had all the tools last year to at least be an above .500 team they had the pitching. Their hitters stunk. Secondly most of the mistakes that happened last year were Geren’s fault. Just like this year afraid to pull a pitcher when struggling or taking a look at matchups. It wouldn’t have mattered what team Geren gave him the A’s are going to fail because Geren doesn’t belong in the major leagues as a manager.
By signing/keeping players on the ACTIVE 25-Man Roster when they clearly should be put on the DL, or just cut altogether….. How many times does Beane let players try to work through injuries before putting the on the DL? This puts handcuffs on Geren.
Totally getting off the subject (my bad), but Beane has not given Geren the chance to succeed. How can you fire someone who has not been in a position to succeed? You probably can’t do it. And if you’re Billy Beane’s best friend and “Business Partner”, you probably need Wolff to step in and make the impossible decisions, possible.
can't agree on 'signing washed up' for Big Hurt
He could get the player at low cost, decent potential. It’s OK to take a few chances with the possibility of finding a gem.
The part where it fails is when the whole lineup is constructed that way. Makes too many ways to have it fall apart.
Still proves point
low cost, potential upside.
But adding one extra risk to an already shaky foundation.
Just that time the risk didn’t pay off at all.
As odd as this might sound
it’s not about winning and losing. Geren’s failure isn’t about the offense or pitching coming through. His failure is not putting them in the best possible position given the cards he does have to succeed. If Geren pulls Eveland early and winds up short handed in extra innings because the various relievers fail too, well, that’s on the players not him. If he leaves Eveland in when he’s falling apart, that’s on Eveland AND Geren. If Geren allows the weaker hitter to be pitched to and they give up a hit, on the pitcher. If he walks the weaker hitter to pitch to the better hitter with the bases loaded and winning run on third and the pitcher gives up a hit, it’s on the pitcher AND it’s on him. This team may not win games. The last two seasons, we may not have had to the pieces to necessary to win. That’s on Beane. In the games themselves though, Geren hasn’t been effective with the decisions he does make. Geren needs to give his players the best possible chance to win even if they’re aren’t capable of winning if he makes all the right moves. This is bad, not because we’re going lose anyway, but because when we do have the players to win, he’s going to run counter productive to doing that.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Agreed with all of this
Like you said, just because the team loses games doesn’t make it Geren’s fault. If the roster is bad and the quality is lacking, we can’t expect him to be a miracle worker. It’s when in-game decisions are made that can be analyzed as poor that he begins to justifiably receive some of the blame.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on May 2, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
true, but...
what would this team’s record be if Billy Martin were managing?
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 2, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
The question is
Will beane have the balls to fire his best friend when the time comes or does he keep him around long past his time?
I’m betting the later myself.
There Are Balls
And there are small balls.
The A’s like to play small balls.
Now I know why: their leadership has them.
/snark off
This routine just isn’t cutting it, and I bet the club’s leadership is just hoping that a short win streak will silence critics and keep the payouts coming. But it’s extremely tiring to think that this will be yet another season of of injuries, small run numbers and fan fantasizing about tradesd and AAA prospects. It’s just tiring. This freaking routine is numbing, and has been since, really 2004, despite some moderate successes here and there. For a fan, it’s like watching white noise on an analog TV: you keep thinking something dramatic will happen, but in the end you either fall asleep or change the channel.
where will the A's be without bobby crosby?
hes filled in for injured players all over the field, sure he isnt exactly on a hot streak with the bat or on def, but hes been doing a decent job. look around and you will see how useless eric patterson is
If you're able to see the games, you'll notice how bad Patterson's footwork is,
such that he often gets “tangled up” on routine ground balls. He also has a very weak arm, which just leaves him little margin for error when in fact he needs a ton.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
thats why
bobby crosby is our best option for filling in for the infield positions. patterson cant hit and he cant field
Who would you rather manage the A's?
I’m not sure who’s available out there. I’d like to see Wash come back, though that will probably never happen.
+1
i would like to see ron washington return also
LARRY DAVIS
You know things are bad when Bobby Crosby doesn't have the lowest batting average of any starter, yet he's hitting .138. Yes, you're 2009 Oakland Athletics.
Who would you rather manage the A's??
Your not going to get anybody who won’t go along with Beanes directions. Why do you think Geren is the coach, nobody else with experience will take this job.
Washington wanted it
I don’t have any reason to think Francona wouldn’t have considered it, Wakamatsu as well. It just wasn’t Oakland offering to give them the opportunity.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I've said this before
but how about Buck Showalter?
And I’d love to see if the A’s can get Dallas McPherson to play third base . Neither of those ideas seem very popular around here though.
Wang’s ERA is the same as the balance in my checkbook - Jennifer
I'd need to know why Showalter would have anything to do with Beane
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
I didn't read through all the comments
so I apologize if I repeat what someone else said.
Nico, I pretty much agree with you on everything you’ve said here, except for leaving Eveland in as long as he did. It was obvious Dana had no control over his pitches AND that his pitches lacked any quality. The first inning showed us that, and every subsequent inning he pitched. If it wasn’t clear before, it was obvious after the first 2 run HR in the 5th inning that Eveland was not commanding anything and was screaming to be pulled. Geren’s failure to do so cost the A’s the game. By your reasoning, if there were no pitchers available that early in the 5th, then why take Eveland out after the 7 runs? Why not leave him in to give up 8 or 9? The fact is he was staked to a 6 – 1 lead after pitching like crap for most of the game. Seattle was just not cashing in on opportunities. I understand the lack of bullpen depth causing him to leave Eveland in for a while. But once it was 6 – 5, Geren HAD to make a move (if not before then).
I also agree he has attempted to have too many players bunt, when they have not proven to be good bunters. This includes, Davis and Buck. The only 2 competent bunters on the squad are Cabrera and Ellis. I understand using the bunt, but it only makes sense to do so with people who can actually do it and with hitters coming up that promise to make good contact. Otherwise you’re just popping up and giving up outs. Geren should thank his lucky stars for his friendship with Beane, otherwise he’d be a AA 1st base coach.
"Stanford has no fear of losing versus Cal, as they have done so every year but one for the last 20 years. They are, however, very afraid to get injured and indeed fear for their safety." - Furd Rugby Coach on forfeiting 2001 Rugby game vs. Cal
The "problem" I think Geren faced with Eveland is that
his pitch count was actually quite low to where had he gotten through the 5th he might have been able to go 6, which is what the A’s really needed. Had Eveland’s pitch count been at 95 in the 5th inning, I’ll bet Geren makes a move because he’s going to have to anyway.
I think if Eveland had been pulled when he had allowed “only” 5 runs, knowing that you had to go with Giese for at least 3+ you could reasonably expect Giese might give up a couple more. So really it was just a different way of allowing 7 runs. Only with hindsight can we know that Eveland couldn’t just get one more out before totally imploding and that Giese would go 10 up, 10 down.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't buy the low pitch count argument
Ineffective is ineffective. Could Giese allow more runs if he comes in and has to go a little longer than necessary, maybe, maybe not. The way he was pitching, you KNOW Eveland would. You have a fresh, unused arm in the pen. You have the possibility of DLing Casilla. You have the option of sending Eveland or Giese or Cameron down after the game to bring in a fresh arm or two. Those are all better options, albeit unknowns, than the guarantee of Eveland to continue to suck.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Except you're discounting the very real possibility that
as badly as Eveland has pitched and as badly as he was pitching, he absolutely could have gotten Gutierrez out and then worked a scoreless 6th. I’ve seen it happen with pitchers that I “knew were going to continue to get hit if they weren’t yanked,” including at times Eveland last season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I guy scraping by but getting out of it
I’d agree with giving one more out in a 3 – 2, 4 – 3, 5 – 4 situation. When you’re team spots you 6/7 runs and you’ve now given up one shy of that and you’re only getting worse? Pull him. If this was the first game of the season that he struggled in, then I could accept he might make it through 6 unscathed. But he hasn’t pitched well. And even had Eveland somehow pulled it off and gotten out of that inning I’d have thought it was the wrong move. Had he gone another inning without giving up another run, I’d consider Geren lucky, but still feel he made the wrong move. If you disagree, then it’s a philosophical difference of opinion that we can agree to disagree with. I will, however, say that had this been the only error in his management (giving his young starters a little too much rope) I wouldn’t find too much fault it in. In the greater context of his in-game management, it strikes me as just one more, of way too many, questionable (not horrifically bad) calls.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
who cares about what his pitch count was
The problem was that he couldn’t find the strike zone from the start and has been lucky in his other starts.The fact of the matter is that Eveland should have been pulled at the first sign of trouble and especially when given a five run lead. This is a game that this team should’ve won and its nobody elses fault that Geren doesn’t know how to handle his bullpen. How many quality starts has this staff given the bullpen to have any amount of time off. None this staff is lucky if it can make it through five innings and then try to bury the bullpen to pull it out. This can’t continue folks and then on top of this he has been carrying casilla for the past week hoping that his injury would suddenly heal. That plus you have Ziegler who hasn’t been available for the past few games and this falls on the manager. This ship is sinking fast folks and its going to get ugly if this continues.
It's Geren's fault that Ziegler has the flu?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well he did let Ziggy out of the bubble. So yes?
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by the way, re: Casilla
the injury update on the A’s website lists him as “day to day” yet suggests his return as “possibly mid-May” , same as others who are on the 15 day DL
I think this stuff is sure questionable but overall its a little too negative about some minor things…I mean crap Bucks job there is to get the runner over and if bunting is the best way to do it then you have to try…sure I agree that maybe letting him swing he has a relatively good chance to move the runner no matter what…But crap Crosby was swinging a decent bat last night especially after that horrible first AB, so given the feel of the game I will give Crosby a shot right there to move the runner over. My point is the situation there calls for the team to move the runner over using any means necessary and I read someone say that Buck views himself as a good bunter…So its an execution mistake…Look if Buck gets the buck down and then Crosby does his job you say nothing and possibly say good decision to bunt. The walking Branyan thing to me is micro analyzing cuz right vs lefty and it was clearly letting Springer decide who he wanted
I personally think you are letting two small things that happened yesterday be your personal tip of the iceberg…And I think you are overemphasizing those things that happened last night when in actuality they arent that big of mis management situations. Some of the other things you mentioned at the end are bigger deals then what happened yesterday, and the things that happened yesterday are minutia that you are overemphasizing
One thing to know is that I will NEVER criticize a move
I didn’t hate at the time. When Buck came up, I said “Let him SWING!” and when they walked Branyan I said, “What a TERRIBLE move.” If those weren’t the case, I would never have brought up either point.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I understand what youre saying there
Im just saying they are kinda judgement calls…Cuz bucks sole responsiblity should be to move the runner…Now you can choose let him attempt to get the ball to the right side or bunt…And the branyan thing the only thing I woulda done different is just tried to nibble on him instead of straight walking but not let anything over the plate so I agree with that part but Im not all sure that Geren totally made that call I think he left it to springer, which is a problem…
To me the biggest problem with yesterdays game was Eveland…Offense gives you a 6-1 lead and you give it all back? Ive said this before and I will say it again that I am really unsure if Eveland is a major league caliber pitcher or maybe he is not major league ready yet…We have better options
You're correct that if I hadn't been constantly aggravated
by stupid stuff all season, I would probably just give Geren a “pass” for an “off day” yesterday. So in that regard it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. It’s just that every time I think Geren has hit rock bottom with his ideas about strategy, he does something even dumber.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
geren's managing is like my tennis playing
i’m always trying to surprise my opponent with some little-chance shot that, if it comes out, looks like crazy outside-the-box genius (let’s call this an hernadez 2-out, 2-strike, bases-loaded bunt; ie., not geren), a shot that instead backfires 99% of the time (let’s call this the 2009 season). i do it because at the moment of hitting the ball, i get a craving for the chancy shot. it’s gets in my guts and i go, wouldn’t it be cool if i did this and then the ball did that… but then i do, and it doesn’t. so i lose. and lose and lose and lose.
so i sort of empathize, partly, from afar, with huge reservations and a feeling of doom, with what he’s doing. like me, he lacks full knowledge of the game, is impaired by several physical realities, doesn’t rationally weigh the options that are available, and goes, time after time, after the really cool feeling you get winning through a wild aberration. but you can’t try the crazy shot every single effing time. (not if there’s a message board somewhere to discuss it.) it stops being outside the box—it is now the new box, it is badly put together, and it is only good for holding balls that hit the net or go out by a mile, save no runs or keep you from scoring them, and make us both look doubledumb. dumb for not trying the sane shot in the first place and dumb again for blowing the crazy shot too.
so geren, that’s where you are: managing pro baseball at a level just below my tennis game (hey, i MAKE 1% of my crazy shots). let’s work on this. i’ll start playing for average if you do. come down to the court. i’ll show you how to recognize the urge to go for the bad shot, we’ll both learn how to ignore it, and you’ll show me how to make those pouty little elvis lips. we should be back on track in no time.
don't care if i ever get back.
I think that's insightful - I see Geren trying to be this
“outside the box genius” and trying too hard. As a manager, personally, I would not be afraid to buck convention – for example in that very situation I would walk Ichiro if Betancourt were on deck – but I wouldn’t do the unconventional thing “just ’cuz.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Admit it -- you'd pull the lineup out of your hat every day
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
So glad you made this post Nico
I was worried you never would after you had been defending Geren before the season. I agree with everything you said. It’s obvious that Geren is clueless but doesn’t get criticized by the font office like previous managers would… Remember how Macha or Howe would always have to answer to Beane if they ever had a player bunt, but Geren seems to do it every game. I actually don’t necessarily mind the A’s bunting more, but as for the atrocious bunt attempts so far this season, Geren needs to answer because this should have been worked on in Spring Training, and should be practiced until they get it right. It’s not a very difficult thing to do for someone getting paid millions of dollars because of his incredible hand eye coordination.
As for Geren just being a poor manager, we can blame injuries or our small market for the A’s doing poorly, but lets not forget that the managers before Geren didn’t have losing seasons, Geren seems to only have losing seasons. In other professions when you under perform you get fired.
Casilla to DL, Gio up -- confirmed
The move hasn’t been announced officially yet, but I just spoke to Gonzalez in the clubhouse and the left-hander said his arm feels great and he’s happy to do whatever the team needs.
Initially, that will be to work in the depleted bullpen, but it’s safe to assume Gonzalez will be an option in the rotation if Dana Eveland or Josh Outman keeps struggling.
“Welcome to the big leagues, Gio — here’s your Oaks uniform!”
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
SuSlu, sorry
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Which means that Eveland could have been pulled earlier,
and Outman put in with Gio starting tomorrow. My main rationale for not pulling Eveland was that Giese is no better and the team was going to run out of pitchers by the 9th inning even in best case scenario. Now I believe the A’s could have, and should have, considered Outman to be available.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I still think Gio should start and Outman should be in the pen.
Gio was scheduled to start on Monday. Any chance he could be pushed up a day and start tomorrow instead of Outman? Gio on four days is prob better than Outman. Ot perhaps they can start Outman, have Gio come in for short relief, and then have Gio start in Outman’s stop next time around?
Bring Gio back!
My favorite part of that article:
The A’s would like Gonzalez to learn to keep his emotions in check, but he’s pretty irrepressible. He’s sporting a new hairstyle, short on the sides, styled on top, and when I asked about it, he said, “Wolverine!” He saw the new X-Men movie yesterday, the day it came out, and already he’s paying homage with his ’do.
Oh, Gio. Can’t wait to see his Wolverine hairstyle with the Oaks uniform. This is gonna be good.
Too bad the movie was a pretty bit letdown
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Branyan
He made two significant changes to his batting stance and has been doing some other things last year and this. I think he hit pretty well till he stopped getting regular at bats, definitely not .233.
Yeah, but he's basically a Swisher type of player in that
he’ll hit for power, strikeout a lot, and hit for a fairly low average. The A’s analogy would be walking Cust or Giambi in that situation with Suzuki on deck.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Geren
I totally agree with you, Geren is a terrible manager. His decision making and the lineups he comes up with are questionable at best. He leaves pitchers in too long and he hits and runs with low percentage hitters and runners, i don’t get it. I’m not the manager and he knows his players better than I do, but i’ve been following and played baseball all my life and he is overmatched being the manger of this team.
get the bunt down
My main problem with Geren trying to bunt is no one on this team seems to know how. This simple, basic play seems to be beyond anyone on the team and I wonder why you’d call the play if you haven’t seen any evidence that your players can pull it off.
The big thing I wonder about Geren isn’t the strategic stuff as frankly I think that’s a bit overrated it’s that he doesn’t come across as a leader. All his happy talk seems phony, I think players like to be treated like men and Geren comes off like a middle manager not a leader. I’d give him until the All Star break to prove himself as I think 2 1/2 seasons is enough time to make your case.
I love that the Google ads underneath this post
are for criminal justice programs and san francisco attorneys!
Keep up the good work Nico!
This puzzles me
Because I have never really minded Geren’s decision making until this season. He’s been awful this season.
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
Buck was given bunt option and failed
Travis Buck said that he had the option to bunt or not in the eighth inning Friday. With the game tied, nobody out and a man at second, he popped up a bunt foul. “I know I can bunt, but the way I’m feeling at the plate, I should have swung away,” Buck said. “I’ve got the ability to move him over. That’s a learning experience for me.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/02/SPNM17DJL6.DTL
Yeah, I saw that and it at least vindicates Geren to some degree
Though it sends the message “make a productive out” (“get him over any way you can”), where I think the better message (given the hitters up and the hitters following) is “try to get a hit, and in doing so make sure you pull the ball so that if you don’t get a hit you can still advance the runner.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
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