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Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: Interview With UMD Athletic Director, Dr. Debbie Yow

Dear Billy Beane,

Final Score: Tigers 11, A's 7

The A's blew a 6-0 lead and lost 11-7, but I'm not going to write a recap today. When Blez first brought me aboard to write on the front page, he asked me always to write "my truth" and that is what I have always tried to do. I try to be fair, and I try to call things as I see them, with as much perspective as possible.

Ballpark attendance may not be good, but reading AN each day provides incontrovertible - and often touching - evidence of how many truly passionate A's fans there are out there, fans who will love the team through thick and thin, who will cheer, curse, pray, and hope with every pitch, no matter what. And with each passing day, it becomes more and more clear that as a General Manager (not to mention a part-owner), Billy Beane has completely and utterly letdown his fan base by failing to rebuild OR reload, and failing to put together a team that is fun to watch for any reason.

Dear Mr. Beane,

Your fans don't ask for much. We are fiercely loyal to the A's, and just want a team that is either good now, interesting to watch, or has promise of being good soon, and for the third season in a row you have provided none of these.

You have "rebuilt" a team whose infield doesn't have a single player who has any bright future with the team, and doesn't have a single player who one can reasonably expect to be getting better in 2010. Chavez, Garciaparra, Cabrera, Kennedy, Crosby, Giambi, Kennedy, and an aging injured Ellis. It's an octet of filler. Your "Plan B" for the past 5 years, if an increasingly crippled Eric Chavez didn't work out, was apparently "to lose a lot of games."  For your outfield, you traded away the only OFer with a high ceiling, the only OFer who could play the most important defensive position (CF) well, and kept a group of OFers whose futures range from "decent" to "bad." There is actually remarkably little to build on going forward and remarkably little reason for a fan to get excited about watching an A's game.

You have hired, as your manager, someone with the built-in problem that if he didn't turn out to be good at his job it would create an awkward situation for you as a close personal friend. The manager, who exudes the bland, overly comfortable, non-intense, "put in your time and get paid" brand of baseball the team shows on the field, pilots a team that is not good at the basics and is not full of energy.

It is part of your job not to put your personal relationships with Bob Geren and Eric Chavez ahead of the best interests of the organization, and your competence has to be measured against these decisions.

But worst of all, following a great run in the early 2000s ever since you "discovered" soccer your moves make fans quite reasonably wonder if you are even fully focused on, or committed to, doing the best job you can - as you have even violated your own rules of not rebuilding halfway and not calling up pitchers before they are ready. The team looks like it is going through the motions. Are they taking their cue from their manager or from his manager?

Which brings me to a request I am surprised to be making, as I held you in such high esteem at one time. If you are no longer interested in building the best baseball team you can, if the passion for the Oakland A's is no longer there, at least do well by A's fans one more time and find someone who has that passion. Because we have it - or at least used to have, and want to have it again.

                                                             Sincerely,


                                                             At Least Me.

9 recs  |  Comment 640 comments |

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Sad to say...

….but I agree 100% with that, Nico. Well said!

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 1:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nico – THANK YOU so much for putting this message together. It is perfect, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I see that an excerpt of your letter has been made available on SFGate.com . Good work!

by ATLDuck on May 18, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Signed

Me Too

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 1:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Me Three.

Thanks, Nico, for saying what a lot of us want to and saying it well.

by lynnzgal on May 17, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dear Mr Beane

Fire yourself, you are not a good GM in spite of what the Beane apologists think,

You have no clue how to build an offense and Nico is right on 100 percent.

Go and run your soccer club into the ground.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 1:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

wow

what a joke

by tafkasam on May 18, 2009 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

To whom it may concern at Mlbtv:

It is with great pleasure to thank you for offering monthly rates.

alaska A residing in colorado. (soon in Idaho)

by ak_A on May 17, 2009 1:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

HAHAHAHA

I was thinking the same exact thing. Im not paying to watch this crap!

by asfaninpismobeach on May 17, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

:)

….

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 17, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish I had more faith in the A's ownership...

…to pick up the pieces if Beane were to go.

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 1:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I love this team with all my heart

I think since 1980 I have (compulsively, quite frankly) watched, listened to, or attended about 150 games / year. And I have actually started thinking this week, “What other interests can I develop this Summer?” Which may be a blessing in disguise for me, but man – not for the reason I want. How do you get interested in a team that seems, from player to manager to GM, not to have a lot of interest in being the best it can be?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

One answer....
How do you get interested in a team that seems, from player to manager to GM, not to have a lot of interest in being the best it can be?

Snark.

(But there are, of course, quicker and cheaper ways to get one’s snark on than watching the A’s on mlb.tv (when they’re not blacked out) and participating in AN comment threads.)

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When the A's are not blacked-out....

…What is that? Like about four games for the entire season?

by gregorymark on May 18, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said again

They are interested in making a profit. Like I said, the A’s are DEFRAUDING their fans.

I am working out as I type this as I am that pissed off at the ineptitude of Billy Beane and 99 percent of the rest of them. They all make me sick.

But as lifelong fans, we will keep rooting for this ******* of a team

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it's any comfort...

…this is at least in keeping with some of the deepest traditions of the franchise.

The last couple decades of the Connie Mack era and the entire KC period were pretty much this terrible, too.

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm reaching the point I'm already at with the Warriors

Until the team and the front office can prove they’re actually interested in winning and have a clue about how to do it, I’m saving my money. I didn’t go to a single Warriors game last year and the way things are going (yeah, me being about to move has a little something to do with it too) I may not go to any A’s games this year. I love the A’s but this team is painful to watch and what’s more, they don’t really have anyone WORTH watching.

I’ll stick with the minors for the time being.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sad to say

I’m with you I have been obsessed with this team beyond belief my entire life. They have been down before but it hurts more now because I think we shouldn’t be this bad this quick after ‘06.
For all the credit Beane gets one playoff appearance in 6 years just isn’t that impressive anymore.

by fansince1980 on May 17, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry to nitpick, but
one playoff appearance in 6 years

makes no sense.

Since Beane became GM, the longest the team has gone without a playoff appearance is two years. This year looks like it will make three.

The last time the team went six years with only one playoff appearance was 1995-2000.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 18, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry to double nitpick, but

2004+5+6+7+8+9= six years, and we’re one for six, ‘cuz we sure aren’t going this year!

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 18, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?

We went to the playoffs in 2006.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on May 18, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, I didn't realize you were counting 2009 already

You said “anymore”, so I thought you were talking about the past.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 18, 2009 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being the best you can be

How can you know that the players, manager and GM are not interesting in being the best they can be? Just because someone doesn’t wear their heart on their sleeves does not mean that they are just there for the paycheck. Some of the disinterested looks from players that, you will say, show that the players do not care may be because they are as sick and tired of the loosing as you. A guy does not make it to the bigs without tons of desire to do it. They have slogged for years to make it. Unless you can read minds, this kind of talk is ridiculous.

"Swinging and missing to me is like 'Jesus, what happened?'" Scott Hatteberg

by Razr on May 17, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the surface

I agree with you Razr, judging their passion base on facial expressions or throwing helmets does not measure passion and desire. But when you heart and soul team is off to an epically bad start hard questions are fair game.

Baja been here

by bajablue on May 18, 2009 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A's are even making the Raiders look interesting.

The conspiracy theorist in me says that the current rampant mediocrity is a prelude to moving the team…I mean moving them out of the Bay Area. Yeah, yeah…I’ve heard all the arguments about there being nowhere else to move, but I can’t get out of my mind the comment by Selig that the A’s should never have been allowed to move to Oakland in the first place, and now that the Fremont deal is dead, and San Jose being problematic, the idea of the A’s staying in Oakland for an indefinite period of time is repellent to the Powers That Be. That and the fact that Wolfe and Selig are old frat buddies, yes?

by gregorymark on May 18, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Major League conspiracy theory.

I guessing that inside the locker room, there’s a cardboard cut-out of Beane with little strips of clothing that can be peeled away after every win, too?

by LowcountryJoe on May 19, 2009 3:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that explains why they traded for matt holiday, tried to sign johnson and furcal, and did sign cabrera, giambi and nomar!

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 19, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh how the A's lose let me count the ways...

Oh how the A’s lose, let me count the ways, they can’t score one run for a couple of days. If they manage hits, then come double plays. You might think they are the Tampa Bay Rays, but even that team has seen better days, then the offensively challenge Oakland A’s. Who cares what they look like because it all pays, bumbling and stumbling, close your eyes Mayes. A’s pitcher’s throw and everyone prays, inside the ballpark, the baseball stays. Can’t throw can’t hit don’t even want praise. I sit back in my seat and chew on some Lays. Wait, it’s a hit my eyebrows raise. Another foul ball, not a thing to amaze. You can’t even play with the smaller A’s. Your no pro, like that announcer says. Strike three looking, your eyes in a glaze. Back out on D your not even phased, when your out there forever on some very bad plays.

by jonxstri on May 17, 2009 1:27 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Please leave this up on top of AN front page

Beane supposedly reads this site, not that it matters as his ego is too big to listen to anyone but himself but he does need to read this anyway. Someone have Blez email him and have him read it.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 1:29 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 17, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

twins and yanks in extras 2-2

Maurer made an outstanding game saving tag.

alaska A residing in colorado. (soon in Idaho)

by ak_A on May 17, 2009 1:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

too bad we dont have ANY of those...

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on May 17, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

#1 picks

tend to be players like Mauer…there’s a price to be paid for getting a superstar the easy way in the draft.

by ohmangoAs on May 17, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And we're working on it!

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 18, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

crosby, cabrera, hannahan,kennedy

is irrelevant to next yrs team. if they gave guys like petit, pennington, patterson, etc i’m not so sure theyd be any worse than the current guys

by Asfan4ever723 on May 17, 2009 1:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i'm pretty sure they would be

It's never too soon to jump to conclusions

by alea iacta est on May 17, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe they would,

but since their potential is greater than zero, what the hey?

REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why did you trade Dan Haren?

He’s one of the guys who would have been worth signing to a big-time extension. As the young pitchers struggles this season reveal, true number one starters do not grow on trees.

I understand the Swisher trade, but why did you deal Haren? Why?

by Pucking Insane on May 17, 2009 1:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree, Haren was someone to build a club around

Proven commodities are difficult to find in baseball.

Fleeting value, or supposed potential, is everywhere. Look at any ST field of “dreamers”.

"Wag More
Bark Less"
bumpersticker sighted in Berkeley, CA

by One won lost won on May 17, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely agree

Young pitcher only getting better. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

"There's not a moment of peace and quiet in this damn clubhouse." ~~ Nick Swisher

by luvsthecurveball on May 17, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seeing as his contract with the A's only ran until 2010

We wouldn’t have been able to resign him. Jesus, just look at the return Oakland got. It was ridiculous. He drastically improved are farm. CarGon, Carter, Cunningham and Anderson are ALL top 100 prospects.

by NateHST on May 18, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brett Anderson, Carlos Gonzalez, Greg Smith, Dana Eveland, Christopher Carter, and Aaron Cunningham

That’s why.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on May 18, 2009 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So

2 4th or 5th starters, a CF who was go great he was dealt less than a season later, another OF who appears to project as a “solid if not great” starter, a player who strikes out way too much in the minors no less, and a pitcher who has promise but is being put in a no-win situation?

by Pucking Insane on May 18, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dana Eveland

caused us many, many losses and is a failure but the rest of them make it a good trade

by Trainman on May 18, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last year Eveland was the 38th best starter in the entire MLB

You know not what you are talking about.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on May 18, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This post would have been just as helpful

with just the first sentence. The second sentence is unnecessary, unkind, and inaccurate.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 18, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please don't make me laugh

The guy has been a failure from start to finish. See his career ERA.

Last year is last year. what about this year?

Quit trying to justify that Eveland is good. He is not CURRENTLY and is not in AAA.

The bottom line is ERA and wins and losses. He is bad.

So stop trying to bring up last year when talking about what he is like now.

He was sent down because he sucks and I doubt he will ever be any good because he has no clue how to find the strikezone and when he does, he throws batting practice.

by Trainman on May 18, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Saying that Wins and Losses and ERA are good ways of measuring pitching...

is equivalent to saying that the world is flat.

Ignoring the offense behind them, park, defense and other variations of luck that has nothing to do with the skill of the pitcher give you a totally inaccurate view of a players performance.

Even in what is hard to describe as a bad year (though he was very unlucky) Eveland has contributed .2 WAR in 2009.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on May 18, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Haren trade was better than the Swisher trade IMHO.

Even if DLS was healthy, the return for Swisher was rather paltry. The power and defense (can he stick at CF) questions with Sweeney were known prior to the trade, along with Gio’s major, major control issues.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on May 18, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not really mad about this loss

offense scored 7 runs and a 21- year old pitcher had a bad day. I expected many of these kinds of losses going into this year. But they need this infield to get healthy so we can go ahead and trade them, al of them.

If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.

by 9Custs on May 17, 2009 1:38 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

count yourself among a tiny minority, IMO

How many losses begin with six-run leads? That is two already. You could absorb it as “that’s baseball” if you’re the Dodgers, who lost to the Nationals. But then the Dodgers continued to win. For the A’s, it leaves them set up for loss after loss after loss.

Back to Sacto with Geren. Heck, even a switch with Tony Dee would be tolerable to “status quo”.

"Wag More
Bark Less"
bumpersticker sighted in Berkeley, CA

by One won lost won on May 17, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but your expectations are too high...

if you are expecting the young pitchers to never have a bad start. 7 runs should win us a game, but it al depends on our starters.

If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.

by 9Custs on May 17, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's nice to have an occasional voice of reason

It's never too soon to jump to conclusions

by alea iacta est on May 17, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully

If and when our offense is consistent, other pitchers will want to come play for us. Obviously, none would want to now with the offense as cold as it has been. But, other players sure came when they heard we got Matt Holliday. And, pitchers will be looking this way, too. Go A’s… keep hitting… either these young pitchers will work out or not…

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he won't....sorry.

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on May 17, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

aye

4 – 4 is not bad though. He’s got to get that average back up so he can take a few more shots at the fence.

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed...I was just being a smart ass.

:)

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on May 17, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still

agree with you, though. They all need to pump it up… he’d prolly be the first to tell you that

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so sure he'd say that

He’s out of here no matter what and might be finding it hard to care amidst all of this terribleness. Don’t know if that’s a word but it’s how I feel.

"There's not a moment of peace and quiet in this damn clubhouse." ~~ Nick Swisher

by luvsthecurveball on May 17, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinkin' today

he must be wondering what he got himself into…..we all thought it wouldn’t be this bad. That we’d field an at least decent team. and it has just been sad.

I rock!! Guitar Hero said so

by BERRYJO on May 17, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was actually thinking the same thing

This is the kind of loss we’d sorta prepared ourselves for going into the regular season.

But we didn’t expect it would follow two blowout losses, and we didn’t expect the sloppy defense, and we didn’t expect the worst start in Oakland A’s history.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bravo, Nico

It had to be said… let’s see if it gets any reaction, whether BB himself or perhaps in the old media, or who knows where.

by jasonthea on May 17, 2009 1:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

and michael urban, you suck

now you’re doing giants radio pregame, what a douche

If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.

by 9Custs on May 17, 2009 1:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

he's a giants writer through and through

maybe it’s just my personal bias, but i feel that he would be much better suited as a Giants’ writer.

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on May 17, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and i think he agrees

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on May 17, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, we've all got to pay the rent

he’s a baseball writer in the bay area, what’s he gonna do, say no?

it’s a job, not a personal choice

It's never too soon to jump to conclusions

by alea iacta est on May 17, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree

it’s a job. He likes baseball.

"Wag More
Bark Less"
bumpersticker sighted in Berkeley, CA

by One won lost won on May 17, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no problem with him taking a job

that allows him to remain in the Bay Area, where he was born and raised, and where he is raising a family.

He is bery honest about being a fan of both the Giants and the A’s, even though many people may find that puzzling. But even if he was a fan of a team outside of the Bay Area, he’s got a job, and I don’t fault him for that.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As it is, I don't see what the big deal is

He’s a writer doing a job, and as part of that people like him are often asked to join in on pregame shows and things like that.

Why should he restrict himself to just the A’s?

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

true...

…although A’s fans do kind of like having their own partisan guy…

REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would be SuSlu.

And yes, we love her.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 18, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's actually easy most of the season

to support both teams seeing as how they are in different divisions. But your true colors always show in the head to head battles. Me? I’m an A’s fan since I was a kid.

I rock!! Guitar Hero said so

by BERRYJO on May 17, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant different leagues.Sry

I rock!! Guitar Hero said so

by BERRYJO on May 17, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Best thing you've ever written, Nico

right on the money. Every bit of it. I pray Beane reads this, I really do. I’d like to hear him put a positive spin on this team. Just a horrible, horrible job.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on May 17, 2009 1:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

As far as young pitching goes

I would give a “pass”, considering what happened in Detroit. They let their young pitchers (Bonderman, etc) have big losing years, but two years later they were in the World Series. Sometimes it works. Curt Young is a worthy pitching coach IMO.

Since it worked for the Tigers, I will pronounce the strategy as acceptable, but… ONLY my opinion.

"Wag More
Bark Less"
bumpersticker sighted in Berkeley, CA

by One won lost won on May 17, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beane got lucky with the big 3

He fires or gets rid of anyone that makes the A’s better

His philosophy on hitting plain sucks and has done for years.

The team(s) will do better with him gone which is not going to happen.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

beane's philosophy isn't completely at fault...

the system works. just not in a home stadium that has 2098923 acres of foul territory.

by ArielPrieto on May 17, 2009 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Always love your comments

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on May 17, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once I read the Forst comments on blog I shall not name,

I became convinced that the blogger was right. That is, that Forst was indeed the man behind the curtain. It makes one wonder just how important DePo was to the success of the teams in the early 90s. With all that said, is there any reason he would not be brought back?

Oh, and solid post.

by Pucking Insane on May 17, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love this, Bear. Excellent points and I feel the same way about the Big Three.

by ATLDuck on May 18, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The last 3 seasons.

This team has been unwatchable. 2006 was a fluky season since the only reason we made the playoffs was going something like 17-2 against the M’s. I havent been excited to watch this team since Hudson/Mulder were traded.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 1:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I have to agree

I go to fewer games, because whether it’s a Loaiza or it’s an Eveland as SP, I feel the other team is rarely far from taking the lead. Unfortunately, even a two-game sweep like with KC doesn’t remove the worry, whenever the A’s face a decent offense, that they are vulnerable to giving up the (X…try a number)-run lead.

Who wants to pay money/spend time on that???

"Wag More
Bark Less"
bumpersticker sighted in Berkeley, CA

by One won lost won on May 17, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm rooting for Texas, Toronto and Milwaukee Now

The Brewers because they mash… and Cubs fans are as intolerable in losing as the Red Sox fans used to be..

Blue Jays because TB has lost its mojo (lose Longoria to the pitcher at the beginning of the game— seriously?) and the other alternatives are evil..

And Texas because they have the guy that should be managing here, and if we can’t do it, and we can’t, then we must all become Ranger fans and shut down the Scioscias and Lackeys of the world.

by jasonthea on May 17, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It is safe to say

the A’s cannot win it, especially with single A players and management who does not give a flying F

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's also good as a fan of BASEBALL in general

to follow other teams sometimes. This year, preseason, I picked the Royals and Pirates. Last year it was the Rays and Brewers. I sure got lucky on that one.

REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've been a huge A's fan since '91....

when I was 12 years old and just becoming interested in baseball. I’ve seen the A’s go through their ups and downs, but never have I found being a fan of the A’s as difficult as this year and last. I try hard not to be the guy that threatens to stop being a fan, but damn the management and ownership makes it more and more difficult on a daily basis. It’s become obvious to me that this team has pretty much no chance of competing this year. I’m not necessarily opposed to playing the young guys, but why have a losing season while your paying guys like Giambi and Holliday millions? Get rid of the dead weight and let some of the youngsters play regularly.

I have always supported Billy Beane, but I’m ready for him and Bob Geren to move on. The two of them have succeeded in building a team that has little talent, and even less desire to win. It’s hard enough to watch this team lose seemingly a different way every game. I could even deal with a 100 loss season as long as the team showed potential for the future. This team is not built for the future, and apparently not for the present either. My biggest issue with the team this year and last, is that they have absolutely no heart. My nephew’s little league team plays with more fire than the majority of the current A’s roster.

by AEP2007 on May 17, 2009 1:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Just in case any front office types are reading this....

Please bear in mind: we’re among the team’s most diehard fans.

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 1:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd say season ticketholders are more diehard

Those folks your see behind third base amongst the empty seats, bundled up against the weather.
Those are the real diehards IMO, because they buy season tickets, drive to the Coli in awful traffic, and sit ’til the end through hometown mediocrity.

"Wag More
Bark Less"
bumpersticker sighted in Berkeley, CA

by One won lost won on May 17, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I am one of those season ticket holders

except that I take BART to the games.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't have to be a season ticket holder to be a die hard fan

but I get the point. After watching this game today I realize just how foul of a mood this team puts me in when they continue to play like they are sleepwalking. I can’t for the life of me understand why Bon Geren still has job unless Beane feels responsible and guilty if he blamed Geren. still, ya know, how many times has this been brought up in the last several weeks? More and more, it seems as though there really was no plan other than to “roll the dice and hope everything went right”. I totally agree that there should have been some emphasis on getting a vet starter to help out the youngsters this year, especially knowing Dike’s history. The 3rd base thing I’m kinda disappointed in not so much because Chavvy is never healthy but because I thought Nomar would be able to play 3-4 times a week even if Chavvy was not playing, which is the case to a certain extent. The excitement of coming out of ST and starting the year taking 2 out of 3 from the Angels now seems like a distant memory…….and no real vision of how the future looks for us “die-hard fans.” :(

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on May 17, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.

They buy season tickets and then sell 75% of them to other people for face value, just keeping the games they wanna go to.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

many season ticket holders don't do that

it’s hard to generalize that way. One of the things I appreciate about the A’s is that you can buy packages of games, rather than have to buy tickets to all home games.

Giants season ticket holders have to buy the entire home package, so they buy them in groups and only pay for the games they want. In fact, many fans throughout major league baseball do that.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

But I’d say the amount of season ticket holders that go to every game they pay for is very small.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no way to say that's true -- do you?

If I had to guess i’d say that the number is higher for A’s fans in general because you can buy packages instead of all of the games.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just all the season ticket holders I've bought tickets from.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wouldn't you only be able to buy tix from the type of SS ticket holder you describe?

You wouldn’t be able to buy from the hypothetical ideal ticket holder you wish the A’s had.

by ohmangoAs on May 17, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ideally I'd be one of those ones who goes to every game

But I’m broke.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

broke

Green and Gold Lantern Corps

by oaklandSMASH on May 18, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's too bad really

I’ve felt for years that the key moment for this franchise was when Long’ s ball went into the corner on that now long-ago night in October. If Howe had only pinch-ran Byrnes; if Jeter hadn’t made such an incredible play; if Jeremy had slid; if the umpire had called it differently…

Well, you know the rest. Dye would never have broken his leg. I firmly believe that team with a well-rested pitching staff would have handled the Mariners… and whether or not they would have beaten Arizona, we would have had a WS in this era.. before the Giants did.. before Bonds’ HR chase became the be-all and end-all. The team would have had 15-20 million more to play with based on the ensuing attendance spike. As good as that team was in 2002 attendance would have carried over until 2003 big time. Maybe with the successful playoff experience they beat the Twins and then it’s the Angels. Maybe we have a repeat all Bay Area WS in 2002, and win it AGAIN, ensuring another year or two of big-time attendance and payroll flexibility. Tejada does not leave in that environment, and I doubt Hudson does either.

But those things didn’t happen— BB soldiered on, but eventually this franchise spiraled back to lousiness— as has been its pattern for a century now. Let’s hope we get someone smart to pick up the pieces and can win, say, 2013 or so. But forget the next two or three years and the end of the Beane regime.

by jasonthea on May 17, 2009 2:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You missed a piece on the Game that Zito lost and Jeremy out at home

Two runners on, bottom of the 4th, Chavez got a fat pitch and he didn’t miss it. As soon as he hit it, I KNEW it was gone, as did Mussina. Mussina, looked down, slumped and kicked the ground. I jumped up from my seat….YEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!

….Chavvy hooked it foul by about six or seven feet. You talk about “close”? Even a swing that was 1/10th of a second slower would have re-wrote history.

"Wag More
Bark Less"
bumpersticker sighted in Berkeley, CA

by One won lost won on May 18, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh

Forgot all about that one until you mentioned it. But I’ll never forget how deflated the stadium felt after Jeter’s flip.

by dtnick on May 18, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does Buan have an email address

I want someone to email the game thread and wrap up to him to pass onto Beane. Is this possible?

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Done

I sent an email.

It had a couple of comments from me at the bottom

Sorry but we love the A’s and are sick and tired of having a team that could not even compete in AAA.

“Geren might have been a good best man but he is not a manager”

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's overstating it, IMO

He has or had the ability to be a first-rate GM.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Had the ability

The worst thing Lew could have done was give him ownership. Now he rakes in profit without carign about what he puts out there.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree with this.

Companies do stock grants and employee purchases and the like so that the employee feels that if they do a good job and the company prospers, they will see more than a paycheck as a reward. Instead of just showing up, doing your time and collecting your paycheck, you’re more likely to do the extra things that make the company do better.

by LoneStranger on May 17, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ya

Billy definitely does not care at all.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on May 17, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Beane is more motivated by his work than the money

What’s he need money for? He doesn’t have enough time in the day to spend it.

When he took, then foresook the Boston job, that should tell you that money or “raking in the profit” is the last motive in the line of what’s important for BBeane.

In my opinion, he has just been drawing a run of bad hands in a poker game, by analogy.
Heck, you could do that all night, even if you’re a bona fide WS of Poker player. It’s not as if he does a Mo Vaughn or a Jeff Cirillo year in and year out. I would say his biggest mistake was assuming Chavez would remain a healthy player.

"Wag More
Bark Less"
bumpersticker sighted in Berkeley, CA

by One won lost won on May 18, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay

Let’s see the reasons why things are all right.

Any time you’re ready.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a difference between saying things are all right and saying

“stay the course.” 2009 isn’t going to be all right, but before the A’s traded for Holliday, did you ever seriously think they would compete in 2009? Given that most of the players from Beane’s four big trades spent last year in A ball, I think the earliest you can make a fair assessment of the rebuild is 2011. So while I definitely agree Beane has made a few poor decisions of late, I think much of the GM-bashing and the assertions that this team has rebuilt halfway, or doesn’t have anything bright to look forward to, are an overstatement.

And I would add that while the signings of Cabrera, Nomar, and Giambi, as well as the Holliday trade may seem confusing for a rebuilding team, they do provide Beane with some trade ammunition at the deadline, which is important considering Beane fired most of his big shots last year. The one year deals given these vets means that the A’s will once again have a lot of payroll flexibility come 2010. Trade-wise, Buck, Sweeney, and Davis are also very expendable considering the development of Brown, Cunningham, and Doolittle (and Spencer and Thomas) as well as the cheap FA market for corner OFs. If you look at some of Geren’s more controversial moves in the context of a rebuilding season, such as platooning Buck and Davis, they make a bit more sense.

I think the plan this year was always to continue rebuilding, and I think if you look at the minor leagues, the plan is coming along all right. As for 2009, I think the best we can hope for is a couple good trades and some positive development at the big league level from folks like Anderson, Cahill, Buck, and Cunningham.

by scromulus on May 17, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

If the plan all along is to next be good in 2011,

with four lousy years in between, then I stand by an earlier statement that Beane is no more skilled at rebuilding than many, many GMs. Heck, the Marlins can do that and win a couple World Series.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why should he be more skilled?

Why is there this expectation that he’s magical? I would say at this point, its the Twins, not the A’s who get the nod for being the team that’s consistently competitive on a low budget, but even they are starting to show cracks because no team can be good forever whether they’re the A’s/Marlins/Twins/Padres or the Yankees/Braves/Angels. At least the A’s have been more proactive than most other organizations headed into decline.

If your GM gives you 7 competitive years to 4 non-competitive years you’re a pretty lucky sports fan.

by scromulus on May 17, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

-1

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 17, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, the big problem is there was too much uncertainty behind the 2009 roster that Beane put together. Way too much emphasis on the premise that “things had to go right”. Chavvy had to stay healthy and he had to play up to the same level he had player ealier in his career before his huge contract, Giambi had to produce, Nomar had to stay healthy, and perhaps most importantly, young pitchers like Anderson and Cahill had to perform like veterans. It’s just way too much to hope for, and not a realistic expectation.

by ATLDuck on May 18, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they want more support and good crowds, then yeah, they do owe it to the fans

They owe it to the fans to prove that winning is a priority.

Beane’s the architect of this team. If it’s a bad team, if it’s a team that has nobody to really care about, if it’s a team that’s just going through the motions, if it’s a team that’s very injury prone…well, who DO you point the finger of blame at?

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're missing my point

I’m not trying to absolve Beane from criticism. Far from it, actually. It just seems weird to be claiming to be ripped off by the team, or sold down the river, or whatever, when, yknow. They never promised us anything.

I do agree – they they want more support and decent crowds, they need to put a winning team out. But let’s not pretend that that’s not want they want, or that the players are ok with what is happening. Does anyone really think they are happy with what’s going on?

I’m not trying to divert the finger of blame – but I’m also saying, it’s nothing personal. As a fan, don’t feel that the club is trying to shaft you. Mistakes made are mistakes made, not personal attacks.

It's never too soon to jump to conclusions

by alea iacta est on May 17, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

the club is not trying to shaft us but they are not trying to build a fan base either with the product they are putting out there.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, a i e, but they "owe us"

the same way stand-up comedians (also in the entertainment industry) owe it to their audience to show up sober or to practice their material. You may still be good or bad, but just at least put your best and full focus on the task at hand, and don’t favor your friends or lose interest and do it half-assed – which is the perception, if not the reality.

To say “they don’t owe us anything – if they’re not winning, or they’re boring, go do something else” may be “accurate,” but it doesn’t really make sense when you’re talking about a sports fan and his/her sports team. The best thing they have going is that we love THIS team, not some other team or other sport or other activity; they don’t get to say “well then don’t care so much” when it’s convenient.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

supposedly they want us to care

at least that’s what baseball clubs strive for in their marketing. All we ask is the same from them.

Many fans have questioned the direction of this organization over the past few years. Ironically, AN has been on the whole one of the more supportive forums in terms of supporting the management and ownership of the A’s

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think from a humanistic stand point though,

you really kind of owe it to yourself to not go see comedians that suck, or bands that suck, and if baseball isn’t fun for you right now, don’t go to the game. Its your life and and its your time to do with as you choose.

In the past, when the A’s have been going well, I’ve foregone social gatherings and declined offers of extra hours at work because I really wanted to see the game that night. That’s not gonna happen for the ‘09 A’s. If I am watching the game, and they start to really suck, I might grab my book.

by scromulus on May 17, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

for the most part, right...

but sometimes you gotta go see bands that suck because they’re your friends’ bands. And of course, with an organization like a baseball club, some fans see said organization more as friends than as a crappy band.

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quick question, as well

You watched the game on TV. That probably didn’t really cost you anything except your time.

Would you pay to go watch this team in person right now? That’s the big question.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I still enjoy going to watch the games

I can’t afford to go to as many as I like, not having a job and all at the moment, but $2 Wednesdays are hard to beat.

A baseball game always has a basic level of enjoyment to it, no matter what the score is, ultimately.

It's never too soon to jump to conclusions

by alea iacta est on May 17, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is why I'll continue to go as well.

And lets face it, we’ve had some damned good entertainment this decade. That’s why its so hard to watch what’s happening right now.

by lynnzgal on May 17, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I for one am an NRAF who hasn't seen an A's game in person since before Hudson came up

but I went to well over a hundred games from 1982 to 1986, and those teams completely sucked.

I know it’s not fun to watch Cahill or Anderson or Outman, but I was a devoted fan of a team whose starting rotation for two or three years consisted of guys like Bill Kreuger, Chris Codiroli, Tim Conroy, Gorman Heimueller, Bill Mooneyham, a washed-up Steve McCatty, and Lary Sorensen. It was so bad that everyone got really excited when the team picked up Ray Burris.

One thing that made it easier: 1985 was the only season without either Rickey or Jose. So there was almost always one exciting, young hitter to bring you out to the park.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for this memory

I’m another NRAF who hasn’t been to the Coliseum in maybe ten years longer than you have – maybe not since the summer of ‘86, in fact. I spent 1983 in Europe; I could only follow the A’s through the International Herald Tribune. I think Kreuger, Codiroli, Conroy, and Heimueller were all rookies that year – makes this year look like a bunch of old guys, doesn’t it? And Mike Warren too; without “cheating” by resorting to Baseball-Reference.com, I think that was his rookie season and the season of his no-hitter. I thought that would be the beginning of something, but not one of those guys ever panned out, and probably none of them should have been expected to if we really knew how to evaluate prospects at that time.

When I got back from Europe, I discovered Bill James, who taught me how to really think about baseball for the first time in a way I had never even realized was possible. James was a revelation, but he never really was able to get a handle on the A’s (which he admitted), always getting them wrong. I remember in one of the Abstracts he bitched about the A’s foolishly focusing on Ray Burris, who wasn’t going to be part of any future winning A’s team. I also remembered going to a beautiful sunny afternoon game at the Coliseum where Burris pitched a crisp 7-0 shutout (or something like that), just a fabulously refreshing break from the usual young A’s pitcher like Kreuger or whoever who would take forever on the mound, peering intently and at length at the catcher trying to picture some pitch they might throw that might have a fighting chance of not getting creamed by the batter. It’s not as if Burris was blocking anybody, and when after his one season with the team he wanted a two-year contract instead of the one year Alderson was willing to offer, they let him go, so obviously they weren’t overvaluing a single decent season or trying to build around him.

Sometimes a competent pitching job and a well-played game of baseball are a pleasure on their own and worthwhile for themselves, whether or not they are part of some longer term plan for success or not. In fact, I could use one of those right about now.

by Faust on May 17, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You said it.
Sometimes a competent pitching job and a well-played game of baseball are a pleasure on their own and worthwhile for themselves, whether or not they are part of some longer term plan for success or not. In fact, I could use one of those right about now.

I’d take it.

by lynnzgal on May 17, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd forgotten about Warren!

And yes, he was a rookie when he no-hit the (IIRC) already-division-clinched White Sox in 1983! I remember watching Don Sutton pitch a shutout in 1984 — he didn’t help the team go anywhere, but I still remember that game.

Incidentally that awful pitching staff managed to throw 37 consecutive scoreless innings between 8/13/83 and 8/17/83. Baseball is a funny game.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

I’ve been to every Saturday game this season, plus opening night, plus a couple other weekday games (it’s the most games I’ve been to this early in the season, ever). Despite the struggles so far this year, as others have mentioned, there’s still something enjoyable about going to games regardless of the score. And there have been some bright spots, like Suzuki’s continued development, Cust’s improvements this season, Braden’s gutsy and solid outings (I wasn’t a fan of his before this season), and Andrew Bailey coming out of the bullpen.

In hindsight, though, I think Beane should have stayed the full rebuilding course instead of going with a veteran lineup. Bring in a few vets to fill the holes for now and provide some leadership in the rotation, sure, but I think it’s time to let the kids play.

by dtnick on May 18, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally disagree (re: the "owe" part)

If they “owe” us nothing, why should we give them our time, money, and emotional commitment?

As far as I’m concerned, it’s an even trade… each side “owes” the other side something in return for what the other side is giving.

I do agree that some of the criticisms of Beane are over-the-top, but he’s not exactly doing much to keep his reputation of late, either.

I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup

by UncleLeo on May 17, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Entitlement??

Hardly…

When your team— the one you’ve essentially run for the last 12 years— has won all of one playoff series, is coming off two mediocre years in a row, and appears to be a lot worse this year… and yet they’re making a movie about you starring Brad Pitt, where’s the sense of entitlement? please.

Billy you may not be selling jeans.. but we are not buying egos.

by jasonthea on May 17, 2009 2:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Again - it's this assumption that the team owes it to you to win

when they clearly don’t? If you don’t like the fact they’re making a movie, don’t go see it. Don’t give them the money, and don’t waste your time thinking about it. Problem solved.

It's never too soon to jump to conclusions

by alea iacta est on May 17, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And again -

To say "they don’t owe us anything – if they’re not winning, or they’re boring, go do something else" may be "accurate," but it doesn’t really make sense when you’re talking about a sports fan and his/her sports team. The best thing they have going is that we love THIS team, not some other team or other sport or other activity; they don’t get to say "well then don’t care so much" when it’s convenient.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

they don't get to say it,

but they can sure stare smugly, roll their eyes and IMPLY it!

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Read Nico's post a bit more carefully, please.

He’s not demanding that they win. He’s demanding that they give us a reason to watch them. And that begins with the folks on the field and the guys in the dugout appearing to give damn. And it continues with the folks in the front office trying to assemble a team that is at least interesting and is, additionally, either good now or provides some hope for the future. Or to put it another way: a fan cannot expect his or her team to always win. But it’s not unreasonable for a fan to expect a team to provide some evidence that they might reasonably be expected to win sometime in the future.

Right now this team is doing none of these things.

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't sound like a fan to me

Maybe a “casual” fan. But any true sports fan is at least somewhat competitive, somewhat passionate about their team and/or it’s players.

I spent my money to go see my NL team, the Mets, in San Francisco this weekend. It was my baseball budget for a couple months but I’d rather spend it on a team that I perceive as wanting something as much as I would want it if I were a player.

"There's not a moment of peace and quiet in this damn clubhouse." ~~ Nick Swisher

by luvsthecurveball on May 17, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

interesting you'd feel that way about the Mets

with all the accusations over the last few years that they don’t all have their heads in the game…

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

I don’t know why they melt down at the end of the season every year and I’m really hoping it’s a problem solved. But they at least appear to want to win. And Murphy makes me laugh frequently so it’s good entertainment. You can’t say that boy ain’t trying.

"There's not a moment of peace and quiet in this damn clubhouse." ~~ Nick Swisher

by luvsthecurveball on May 17, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

has it been poor planning or bad luck?

4/5 ths of their projected 09 rotation duke,eveland, gio, gallgher injured or struggling have given nothing and were forced tofast track cahill/anderson.
The bullpen had tons of depth last yr with devine/ziegler/brown/blevins etc which allowed them to trade street. i know at the time brining in wuertz/spring were surprising moves but imagine where the bullpen would be wihtout either to fill in along with bailey. Thats almost a complete 08 staff, having produced not much so far.
the FA hitters all had risks attached to them, worst case scenario has happened.
It might be unfair, but the progress of sweeney/buck/barton as potential core pieces of this future offense has not happened thus far. Only Suzuki looks like a current regular player to stick long term.
I’ve given up on contending and moved onto the continued rebuild. Hope some of these older players regain some value and are commodities at the deadline. The next wave of prospects in AA/AAA will be ready by late 09 into 2010.

by Asfan4ever723 on May 17, 2009 2:28 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

If they want people to attend the games

they need to put a decent team on the field.

This team would be lucky to compete in AAA.

They are defrauding the fans.

MLB teams are supposed to entertain the fans, that’s how they make money and the players get their high salaries.

we are being ripped off by an embarrassing team.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My radio just cut out

They cut off the broadcast

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh snap!

Censored!

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

didn't read the whole thing

reading posts by others, this time criticizing letting many of the coaches go.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

That was yours eh?

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He really read some of it word for word?

What did he read?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he read everything except the last three paragraphs

he said, “it goes on”…then he said it was signed by “at least me”

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He read most all of it.

Although, he reads about as well as Buck read last year for the Cops for Kids commercials.

by 33SwisherSweet on May 17, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good

Other emails ripping Beane and team

Buan is reading one now.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Props to Buan for reading this.

He just gained some respect from me.

by 33SwisherSweet on May 17, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

years

maybe it’s been a bit less than that but he’s a smart guy and he does things right. Always enjoy listening to him…

by stranahanahan on May 17, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here an Idea.

Spend some fucking money on the god damn team.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I was infering to

Hudson/Mulder/Tejada/Giambi when he was good.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

since when did they have the yankees payroll

teajada/giambi roids
mulder turned into crap
zito overpaid crap
i wouldve kept hudson, but that wasnt a given with his free agency and oblique issues

by Asfan4ever723 on May 17, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I dont care.

Sepnd some damn money on the team. Im sick of having a AAA team.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then its on the owners.

If you cant afford a MLB team, dont buy one.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Go talk to the last ownership group on that one

Who, might I remind you, are no longer owners.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I know the Schott and whoever else owned the A's

were real cheap.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well prob not them all.

But they shouldnt have all gotten away. What message does that send to fans?

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably the messages most people debated at the time

And the messages we debate whenever the A’s trade away someone with name recognition for prospects or let someone else sign a larger contract elsewhere.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hindsight the only player worth keeping was Hudson

and even he has had his issues with injuries. Giambi has been injured and embroiled in the steriods scandal. Tejada magically aged 3 years, declined with the bat and glove and is neck deep in the steriods scandal. Mulder got injured and fell off a cliff a year after we traded him. If any of those had been signed long term this club would be in an even worse state now.

by DeJay on May 18, 2009 4:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

they have spent enough money to have a good

organization and build a contending club.

The question is: has the money been spent wisely in the last few years?

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno.. our Payroll is what... 50mil.

A normal MLB team should prob be in the 75-80 mil range.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was in that range in 2007

and we have evidence of other teams that have had good seasons with less.

the question is still whether the money was spent wisely.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well... as of now it hasnt.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What was Tampa Bay's payroll last year?

$40 million total? $50 million? Yankees? $200 million and no playoffs.

Throwing money is not always the route to success. Being baseball smart is important.

JD Drew was perpetually injured, yet Boston signed him and he is reasonably healthy.

We get Joey Devine on the cheap, looks unhittable, now he’s a TJ surgery guy. You just cannot assume money makes any of the situations work.

"Wag More
Bark Less"
bumpersticker sighted in Berkeley, CA

by One won lost won on May 18, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe not Huddy.

But that doesn’t invalidate the trade.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That unknown.

"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com

by Syphon on May 17, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

:)

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 17, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am sure Lew would have an upsewt stomach

after reading how we feel at the moment. If he cared about the team he would.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Still don't understand why they're making a Moneyball movie now

It’s past its time. Cancel the thing. People are going to see that and wonder, “What happened?”

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 2:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if they change the end of the movie

and have Beane and Geren run over by BART.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there a way to block the posts of certain users?

I’d appriciate it if someone let me know…

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on May 17, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No. Just don't read their comments if you don't like their posts.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you suggest doing that when the post comes above the username?

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on May 17, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

by post I mean comment

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on May 17, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I often look first for the green username,

before deciding whether or not I care to read the comment.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that makes a lot of sense and is a good rule of thumb...

…although some people’s comments can grow on you. Some of the commenters I used to avoid are now my favorites!

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's funny is I basically am the polar opposite of that.

I very rarely look at WHO is posting something before I am thinking of a response.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what that means.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he was agreeing with you

by saying that he wouldn’t want to know who it was, since knowing might prejudice him in some way. (correct me if I’m wrong…speaking for others usually goes badly for me)

by ohmangoAs on May 18, 2009 2:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that's a good way of going about that.

But that’s just me

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on May 18, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

why would you knowingly provide someone with false information? you didn't have to answer his question.

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

nico is lying: there definitely *is* a way to block posts from certain users.

i assume you want to block trainman…

firefox:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/firefox.html

greasemonkey:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748

killfile:
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/4107

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry, did you mean I was lying or that I might be mistaken?

Please reply; thanks.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 18, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and just to clarify, what I was saying is

that AN does not have any such feature. (Which is neither a lie nor a mistake.)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 18, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i didn't get your message because my answering machine was broken, and no one was home when i called you back

did you not know such a thing existed at all, or was your answer that AN doesn’t have that feature?

-killfile has been mentioned on AN well over a hundred times, including numerous times in threads and even subthreads that you actively posted in and definitely read.
-he asked if there was a way to block certain users, not if AN had that feature. were you mistaken about the question?
-did you also mistakenly not specify in your answer that you just meant that AN had no such feature? that’s a lot of mistakes in one comment…

Please reply; thanks.

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The second of your three dashes

You come across as a really angry person, dude. Have some fun.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 18, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wait... who started this thread?
-he asked if there was a way to block certain users, not if AN had that feature. were you mistaken about the question?

i’m not really seeing the anger there…

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 19, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is all...

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on May 17, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly, we didnt win a series with that core group of guys

whats the climax of the movie?

If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.

by 9Custs on May 17, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Giambi slides and we go on to win the Series!

They changed the end of The Natural when they made the movie, why not change the end of Moneyball?

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m thinking about changing my screen name from “RHP Brad Ziegler” to “Fire Bob Geren” real soon.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on May 17, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't Call my friends pathetic!

The A’s owe every fan! If not for fans, they would not be employed. You do not rebuild at the professional level, period. Maybe in a transition year, but years of rebuilding? C’mon they are supposed to be professionals. It does seem very obvious, the team is not trying and that is shameful. In any other line of work that kind of attitude and performance gets you fired. Yes, they OWE US FANS. That’s what we pay for. That’s what they advertise. Go to a restaurant and have them tell you there is nothing to eat we are rebuilding, after they take your money. Or you go to see a famous concert and you pay top dollar for a certain performer and a ten year old comes out to sing Mary Had a Little Lamb.
Yes, many were optimistic at the beginning of the year, but it was only wishful thinking. Everyone knew how pathetic the trades have been over the last two seasons and we all just were praying for something good. You can’t blame us for trying. Although we knew they did not address major issues, we were wishing for luck. The people on this site are very intelligent and very loyal to the A’s. Why would they bash the team until they know for sure? Now they do and you think they are wrong for pointing out the problems.
We are owed, at the very least, an honest effort. The teams want us to give them our money, buy their gear, pay for games. That’s just great! We deserve a team that plays hard and management that have the best interest of the team, in mind. In fact, they owe it to us!
Sense of entitlement = we paid money!

by jonxstri on May 17, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Geren's typical post game comment

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290517106

The Tigers outscored Oakland 34-9 in the weekend sweep.

I just talked to everyone as a group, and told them that I thought the effort was outstanding this weekend,” Geren said. “We just need to write this off as a bad series, get out of town and start fresh in Tampa.”

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Whereas Jim Leyland goes to the mound twice

in the middle of an at-bat to tell his pitcher, “throw f***ing strikes.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

(and burns them with his lit cigarette)

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clever.

A fractured sinus is nothing to sneeze at.

by somebodyelse on May 18, 2009 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMAO...

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 17, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What a motivator

Part of being a manager is leadership, this guy is cast fron the same mold as Steve Boros; 100% boring. I remember when the A’s blew a game llike this in 1980, Billy Martin kicked over the buffet and told the team until they play they won’t eat on the team’s dime. They responded well.
  If I ran the show I would hire Gene Tenace as my manager. He can teach hitting, Toronto is doing well, and he knows how to win..Egad I can’t take more of this lame ballclub.

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on May 17, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Billy wrecked the buffet?

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

by lynnzgal on May 17, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He traded it for some seeds, which may or may not develop.

Much of it depends on how long the organization cultivates them and whether or not they’re brought up too soon.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's like Geren thinks this is little league

where everybody gets a little ribbon for just making it to the park with their uni on right side out.

"There's not a moment of peace and quiet in this damn clubhouse." ~~ Nick Swisher

by luvsthecurveball on May 17, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The defensive effort was especially "outstanding."

It took a special level of effort to make all of those errors.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 18, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

two major problems

one is injuries…we’ve had an insane amount. now some of them, you can’t do anything about. but others…well, you can’t count on certain guys. chavvy is the main one. i still wonder, though, if the a’s strength training staffs all the way down the system aren’t doing something right. anyway, take away the unpredictable injuries that have killed us the last few years…the pitching staff this year. we all KNEW coming in that there might be issues w/ duke, and that cahill needed more time in AAA (anderson was more ready, but not ready imho). yet we didn’t make any moves to sign some pitchers…didn’t need to be big time guys, but people who at the very least could pitch some innings so our young guys (and i include gallagher in this…he had control issues, something that should have been worked on in AAA for a month or two). but no, we didn’t do that. and look, our pitching has been, as predicted, all over the place. i hope this stuff doesn’t get the young guys off track too much. then, the biggest problem – we have no idea about offense. i understand the draft is a crap shoot, but wow, we have been absolutely awful in developing hitters. is that a scouting issue? a coaching issue? its pretty obvious it has been atrocious for the past few years, and needs to be addressed.

by guy incognito on May 17, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry

But the injury apologists just chaff my knickers. Look around the league. Injuries are everywhere. Teams plan for injuries. What was our plan? Bring in an injured guy to back up our injured guy (Garciaparra and Chaves).

Baja been here

by bajablue on May 18, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Many angles to the problem

No one thing, be it Geren or injuries or Beane involved with soccer has led to this. Each should be evaluated to find the root of the cause.

Some of the problems… and questions:

1. Injuries!
Are we even in this problem if the players are healthy? Granted some of the injury total is due to signing older vets that we all know have a higher chance of landing on the DL. Subtracting the injuries for guys like Thomas, Giambi, etc do the A’s still have more injuries than average?

2. Prospects not panning out
Crosby, Meyer, Barton, etc. Guys who were to be great and are either poor or not on the team. There’s still time for Barton to turn it around, but suppose our prospects did pan out? How does the team do then? In my estimation the A’s are all too eager to trade for minor league talent. Having a stocked farm system is great… but is it worth a poor record in the big show?

3. Management
Under Geren the A’s are a combined 164-192, or a .461 winning percentage. Under Macha and Howe you have to go back to 1999 to find a losing season. I repeat: Macha did not have a losing season. So even if Geren isn’t the problem, I can’t see him as a solution either. This is one of my big critiques of Beane – installing his friend as manager. Maybe his ever-positive schtick works well in the minors when guys need to believe in themselves, but this is the majors.

4. Failure to learn from other teams
Money ball and statistical analysis is great, but it’s not the key to winning. Teams like the Twins are doing better than the A’s without all the fancy analysis. Does that mean our problems are overshadowing any statistical benefit? Or is it because too many stats don’t make for a fluid team?

5. Batting with RISP
Why take a walk? Swing! Swing! Errors happen, singles happen, things happen! unless the bases are loaded taking a walk does not score a run.

alright, back to campus…

by Jernskogen on May 17, 2009 3:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm willing to bet the Twins are doing fancy analysis.

I bet every team is doing it now. They just aren’t all talking about it.

by LoneStranger on May 17, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Likely correct

Although I swear I read an article where they claimed not to; that doesn’t mean it isn’t misdirection. The hitters swing at darn near anything, so walks doesn’t appear to be something they value highly. Their drafting has turned out far better as well. Also helps that they positively looted the Giants.

by Jernskogen on May 17, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Their 2 best hitters (Morneau and Mauer) are patient hitters who walk quite a lot

and guys like Denard Span and even Nick Punto take their share of walks.

But you know who doesn’t walk? Delmon Young and Carlos Gomez, the 2 young prospects they targeted in their big trades recently. And those 2 guys happen to suck as hitters.

Seriously, how would you feel if Beane had traded Johan F’ing Santana for a now-23-year old CF who hit .258./.296/.360 last year and is hitting .207/.277/.310 this year?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Santana trade

was terrible. That’s what Smith got for trying to be greedy.

So maybe the Twins don’t overvalue walks. Could you see either Young or Gomez on the A’s? Only if the price is a total steal I bet. Anyway, you’re taking what I said too far. Walks are not bad; walks when you’re not scoring runs and have men on base are not ideal. How many times have we seen the A’s strand runners multiple runners in a game while struggling to get one or two runs? I’m all for getting a hit in those situations instead of a walk. Waiting for the big boppers to hit one out only works if they regularly do so; it’s not a guarantee they will, especially when it’s cold like during a night game.

Perhaps it all comes back to situational hitting.

by Jernskogen on May 17, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so sure.

They actively take steps to teach players that all that matters is aggressiveness.

They just happen to scout players better than anyone not named Logan White. And that’s why the Twins are always in the hunt.

by rageon on May 18, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps

if those hitters he’s invested in start hitting on a consistent basis and scoring runs, other pitchers will want to come play for the A’s. Practice, practice. Maybe, they can get Blevins to throw some BP. Kill two birds, ya know.

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OR

Frank Thomas… easy fix

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he "went for it" this year, he did so part way

getting veterans with injury histories (hoping that somehow they’d remain healthy enough and with quick enough bats), one legit star in his prime, depending (once again) on the franchise player who hasn’t been healthy enough to produce in several years — but not getting at least one more veteran starting pitcher. How does one expect Duchscherer to remain healthy enough to be the staff ace? How does one rush promising pitching prospects and hope against hope that they aren’t set back by the experience?

Gonzalez should have remained in AAA all last season. He is recovering in the Rockies organization, who wisely have not brought him up.

What has happened to the “can’t miss” prospects – Barton, Buck? Why has there been so much turnover of the coaches? Is all the misfortune and underperformance just an unfortunate coincidence? Perhaps — but at some point many will begin to question the direction from the top.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy Wolf was available for 1 year / $5 million

Instead of getting Holliday for a season, guys like Street, Smith, and Gonzalez, or Sweeney, Buck, and Mazarro could have been used to land someone like Chase Headley or Ian Stewart long-term.

And in those scenarios, the A’s might be better NOW as well as much better in the future.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was,

and it’s easy NOW to look at him and say “he would have been a nice addition.”

But I think a few months ago a lot of sensible people, including you might have thought that Randy Wolf would be predictably bleah.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on May 17, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but I also thought the A's would let Gallagher pitch

I also thought Wolf would sign for more than 1 year / $5million.

I did, and do, think that Randy Wolf is nothing more than a “decent” starter. But he’s a veteran, who is pretty reliable, and wound up signing for $5million.

What I’d really like to have seen is for Beane to bid higher (in talent) for Javier Vasquez, who was traded on the cheap and would have been an ideal addition.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Memo to Beane;

make Nico the new assistant GM and fire David Forst.

I am in favor of Nico turning this storm around, one move at a time!!!!

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 17, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather make Leopold Bloom the new assistant GM,

because I like my personnel moves to be sassy and saucy!

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but some people can't enjoy losing baseball

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 18, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

how closely do you follow every random idea nico or anyone else posting here comes up with?

i’m pretty sure nico wanted to sign jeff suppan to a big free agent contract three years ago, but people don’t remember things like that because they don’t actually happen, so you’re not watching jeff suppan pitch every fifth a’s game.

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Time to Sell the Team or to Sell Out My Loyalty?

I used to think that I would go on loving the A’s forever. These two past years have been difficult to bear, but this year is purely miserable. I’ve asked myself many times as our popular fan favorites have been traded to other teams, “Is it the players like those who were traded that I love or is it the A’s team?” I’ve always come back to my senses and realized that it’s truly the team that I loved and it’s the team that made me look forward to the following Spring and Summer day so I could be entertained and thrilled with the hope of another win or at least the realistic possibility of a another win.

This baseball season just brings me deep, deep disappointment with bleak feelings that a bright new day with an exciting game to watch is no longer realistic.

Now I ask myself and my relatives and friends who are also fellow A’s fans, "Is it time to watch the Giants from now or is it time to ask the A’s ownership to please sell the team to a new owner or group of owners who are honestly and truly committed to a winning even if it means risking paying more to get real talented players and coaches?

Right now, I’d rather look forward to another Monday of work after a weekend than to look forward to the next more than likely A’s loss.

Finally, regulars of this blog are sending out honest feelings about how bleak our A’s look instead of being so loyal and defenders of such a miserable organization.

syh

by quietfan on May 17, 2009 3:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, Flashfire, but I beg to differ

The Giants are more interesting to watch. Lincecum is awesome, Sandoval is intriguing and full of infectious energy, the team is always a threat to pitch a gem or rally from down 4 to tie it, to steal a base or hit a 3-run HR.

They’re not a great team, but they’re “worth watching.” I honestly – and I say this as someone who has watched every single game he could this year – cannot say that about these A’s.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, but going on what you did say,

becoming a Giants fan the last few years (I used to hate them) has been my salvation lately. I figure “go Bay Area” and it’s nice to have two shots at a good team, or at least a fun team to watch.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I kind of see where you're coming from

And quietfan was asking if it’s time to watch the Giants from now on or hope the current A’s group sells. That sounds to me like switching allegiances, though. I don’t mind watching the Giants and I don’t root against them, but I don’t see myself shifting gears to the point I pull for them over the A’s.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, I'm an A's fan

although I don’t hate the Giants and do go to a few Giants games each year. Hey, I love baseball, and when the A’s are on the road I sometimes need to see an MLB game in person.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm an A's fan for life, no two ways about it

But I’d rather the Giants be good than also be bad. It’s just more interesting.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

amen...

Lincecum and Sandoval are fun to watch.

Suzuki and Cust are fun to watch, too.

Too bad that Sweeney, Buck and Crosby are so horribly masochistically painful to watch…

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Typing of the Giants

Game underway on ESPN. Mets @ Giants. Cain on the hill for SF. The opposing pitcher is Pelfrey

I'm a happy seal

by SwisherThresher on May 17, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

New fans

The problem, when the team is playing poorly, is that they don’t gain or add fans. Particularly new fans. When I moved out here both teams were in the midst of their 1998 magic. Keep in mind I gave up on baseball after the players strike – was not a happy fan. Anyway, came out here, saw the games and got back into baseball. I made the smart choice and latched on to the A’s (had some help in that department from my childhood, but still, I could have gone either way). Suppose the A’s were playing like this and the Giants were the better team? Who knows. We’re the active fan & like it or not a team cannot subsist on die-hards alone.

by Jernskogen on May 17, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, the Giants...

… are frankly a much more interesting team right now. I am not a sell out- I just love baseball, the game… and I still love Barry Zito.

By the way, this letter is spot-on. It voices my feelings exactly.

by Chilango on May 17, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And for those of you who live in the Bay Area....

…whatever they’re calling the Giants’ stadium these days, it’s simply a better place to watch a ball game than the Coliseum is.

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's also a much more expensive place to watch

fans aren’t going in big numbers to the coliseum because of the team — and because of how it’s been marketed in recent years.

As old as the coliseum is it’s a great place to watch a game when the fans come. I have been to many of those games in recent years.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any ballpark full of people is ok

Even the Vet and the Metrodome (to name two of the worst parks I’ve watched ballgames in) are (or in the case of the Vet was) ok when they’re full of people and the team is locked in a pennant race.

But having been to the Coliseum pre-Mt Davis and post-Mt Davis, with big and small crowds in each, I can say that, whether the crowd is big or small, it’s a much worse place to watch a ballgame than it used to be.

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

having been to many games

both pre and post Mt Davis, I can say it’s a great experience when lots of fans come and the team is good….and up til recently that wasn’t such an unusual experience.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Like a said: winning + fans = good times at any ballpark

But you can’t always guarantee the winning. And losing + bad ballpark has a way of limiting the number of fans.

Additionally, good ballpark > bad ballpark.

The last game I went to at the Coliseum was in the summer of 2006 (the fate of the NRAF!). The A’s were playing Boston and we won. The place was packed. It was great. But it was still a lot less good than it used to be in the old bleachers, ’cause Mt. Davis sucks.

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't like Mt Davis either

but it’s not the cause of poor attendance.

I have been to many games since 2006. I also was at Fan Fest in January 2007 when 25,000 fans showed up (lots more than went to the Giants Fan Fest that year).

It’s the team and the marketing. Many people who I know who used to attend and don’t anymore talk about the management decisions, not the coliseum, as the reason they don’t go anymore.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not blaming Mt Davis for the poor attendance

In fact, I think ownership is, if anything, too obsessed with a new ballpark. I totally agree that team and marketing are more important.

But this subthread began with a discussion of the experience of being an A’s fan in 2009 vs. the experience of being a Giants fan in 2009. And were I a Bay Area resident with no strong rooting interest in either team, there’s no question where I’d rather watch a ballgame. And it wouldn’t be the Coliseum.

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not jumping off board just yet.

I’ve always felt that the only person that I could not bear to lose from this franchise was Billy Beane. If, however, he has already extricated himself from the decision process and his presence is only illusory, then yes, we need to move on.
But, for me, this has been the first year of disappointment. I did not like the Holliday trade, the Nomar signing, the drafting of Weeks over Brett Wallace, the rule 5 selection, starting Cahill and Anderson, and continually ignoring organizational holes at 3B and SS. So many of the A’s moves this year and past offseason seemed so uncharacteristic of Beane and I’m still confused by them.
But prior to this year, I was okay with the rebuilding. For the most part, the moves the A’s made seemed to make sense given their circumstances.
So for me, it’s really only been one offseason and and a couple of months of disappointment and confusion. And even though they’ve been very bad months, I’m not ready to write Beane off just yet. Actually, considering the stark difference in philosophy from last year to this year, what I want most is for Beane to come back.

by Rocktopus on May 17, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

"but how are you gonna keep him down on the farm...

…now that he’s seen gay Paree?"

(an old WWI song)

I’d rather see him get hired to run a big time soccer club than to be bored and stuck…

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah and that's where I agree with Nico.

I’d rather not have Beane at all than have Beane half-assing it.
I’m just not ready to say that Beane is mailing it in. The goal this year was to compete within a weak division. I really feel we would be in competition if Holliday, Cabrera, Giambi were playing well. I don’t think those were foreseeable “ifs” and so I can’t blame the organization just yet.

by Rocktopus on May 17, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fiercly Loyal

To the tune of an attendance of 9,000 at home games.

by pbra17 on May 17, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

but they're a loyal nine thousand!

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

once again

the passionate discourse misses the central point, the one that no one will acknowledge because let’s face it, we like to be told happy stories where the swelling, triumphant music plays and we get those Velveeta-preprogrammed fuzzy happy feelings… and when the mendacious rears its head we sometimes tend to deny it’s doing what it’s doing, because it’s unpleasant and we feel powerless and after all this is only a game anyway, no need to take years off yer life, right?.

We continuously fail to ask the central question: in what way is it in the owners of this franchise’s interest to field a winning product here in Oakland, when we all know it’s their fondest wish to abandon the city as soon as it’s feasible (and in the case of Fremont, even when it isn’t).for more profitable pastures? If they did happen to win something here or field a reasonable & competitive product, the city might fall in love with the team again and then their plans would be squashed.

Call me Mr. Conspiracy but that’s exactly what the fuck it is, with the Commissioner in on it since merely 40 years ago when he was frat brothers with the owner. If you ask me it’s all about that, the idea that they need 3,000 and under a night to be able to get what they really want, to be able to say, hey look no one is interested here we have to leave… and they end up getting sympathy for their pre-ordained view from the MLB brass who are alleged to be guarding the henhouse from the greedy owners, but are in fact in collusion with them just like old times, like the “businessmen” they are. I am sorry for the unpopular & paranoid view but I just don’t see how you get anything but we are getting from this ownership, given their expressed motivations for the future of the team elsewhere.

The baseball stuff is obviously a factor as well, with the rest of the AL pretty much hip to the fact by now that these motherfuckers ain’t ever gonna swing at shit, so you can just pour in first pitch strike after first pitch strike and they’ll just watch it go by, so the other teams are acting accordingly and we are essentially fucked; even if we have studs at every position it don’t mean shit if your approach is always to be guaranteed 0-1 on every damn hitter. When you add the fact, observable by any 12 year old child, that the traIning and conditioning staff are so inept for so long that they may as well be working for the Angels in secret, stir in a little Eric “Money for nothing and your crutches for free” Chavez and a little 21-year old pitching and here we are.

It doesn’t matter, really, not to them anyway. Calling for Beane’s resignation is exactly the type of Pyrrhic rhetoric that goes nowhere…. that guy is part owner of this trip and he ain’t going anywhere. The plan is split out of Oakland by any means necessary, or so it would appear, and that isn’t going to affect the product on the field in any kind of positive or gratifying way anytime soon… how could it?

I apologize but I don’t see how the situation adds up to anything but a crappy, lame-duck team for the foreseeable future… if we were smart we’d be mounting a campaign to get this carpetbagger to sell it to someone with a soul, that’d be the only way things with this team will improve or at least not be so embarrassing, IMO.

Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?

by emperor nobody on May 17, 2009 3:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

this hasn't actually been ignored

we have debated this on AN in the past.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

we can debate it all we want

but all we’ll get is Ted Knight in “Caddyshack,” i.e. we’ll get nothing, and like it.

I mean, you go to a game and they conveniently put some “All You Can Eat” seats (no one ever sits there) in the top deck, just so they could remove the section of the tarp that said “Oakland”… what’s next? Maybe they could petition Selig to have Rickey go in the HoF as just “Athletic” with no city mentioned, hell maybe they should run a sort of pogrom-style program to wipe out the history of the team in Oakland as if it never happened, like a Stalinist paradigm applied to sports, the A’s could have their own “Tass” type news agency to distribute revisionist propaganda about how the ’70s championship teams really played in El Cerrito.

Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?

by emperor nobody on May 17, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

although if we're gonna revise,

we should say that the El Cerrito Athletics won FIVE straight WS titles. It’s got a nicer ring to it.

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

awesome

Then let’s have the top potential revisions to A’s lore, like:

Byrnes touched home instead of hobbling around like a little girl kicked in the shins
Giambi’s potheaded brother slid
Eck hit Gibson between the numbers and struck out the next guy

Of course, the A’s won all of those games and marched to the WS title in all those years, it goes without saying.

Let’s go, Cerrito!! clap clap clapclapclap

Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?

by emperor nobody on May 17, 2009 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like your slapshot/major league take

and i’ve felt the same vibe, which i say not out of being hippie-like but out of having a vague feeling that is only supported by half the facts. the other half just don’t fit. for one example, in a scheme to downgrade a team, why acquire holiday*? just to give up draft picks?

  • holiday from the perspective of november 2008.

don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on May 18, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

An emperor nobody sighting!

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 18, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

10 more

games before their next day off. TB-ARI-SEA Any wagers on how many we win? My guess was 7 out of 15 while Nomar was on the DL. That was before Ellis went down. Nice, quick recovery with Kennedy. Can’t wait to watch the Outman game. Seems like the only good starter left. Was hoping Gallagher might do better this time around… maybe.

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 3:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Like it or not

the Royals were on a losing streak and the Tigers were kicking azz before the A’s showed up. So the outcomes were really no surprise. If Geren does a good job with lineup cards and pitcher hooks, we might actually win the next few series.

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the level of dissatisfaction expressed

is solely the product of this weekend’s series.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

but, things keep moving…. Rays have won 3 in a row….

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well written, Nico, as usual, but riddle me this...

You are in a meeting with Mike Crowley, Lew Wolfe, Billy Beane, and David Forst last November. Financial and performance analysis points to two very likely possibilities: 1) The free-falling economy will cause the A’s to lose money for the first time in a long time, and 2) the Angels will be weakened by free-agency and, therefore, vulnerable in the division race.

Beane is a man who understands probabilities and outcomes. If he were convinced of those high-probability scenarios, what could he have done differently?

"My pitching philosophy is simple: Keep the ball away from the bat." -Satchel Paige

by ptbarnum on May 17, 2009 3:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well...hindsight is 20/20 so let me try to stick to things

that were actually proposed on AN (by me or by others) at that time:

  • Sign Randy Wolf as a veteran starter (1 year / $5 mil)
  • Sign Russell Branyan as a cheap FA (1 year / $1 mil)
  • Use trade chips to acquire a good young “major league ready” 3Bman – that probably looks like trading from among Street, Smith, Sweeney, Buck, Cunningham, Mazzaro, H-Rodriguez, etc. to land someone at the level of a Chase Headley, Ian Stewart, etc. Note the omission of Carlos Gonzalez because he’s your only true CFer!
  • Sign Nomar at the last minute because he’s cheap and mashes LHP, but don’t construct a team where he is likely to have to play very often. Keep Murton instead of Rajai Davis because he can platoon and can make your OF hit a lot better against LHP.

Go into the season with an expected rotation that includes Braden, Wolf, and Gallagher, inserting Anderson when Duke can’t go but keeping Cahill at AAA no matter what because he doesn’t have anywhere close to major league command yet.

Get off to a rocking start and win the West!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the response.

Sure, he could have done those things. But he didn’t. And the things he did do haven’t worked out so far,so that indicates…what? Beane is negligent, incompetent, over-hyped, stupid?

All that you say may be true. But this what I see: Beane has waged a brilliant guerrilla campaign against competitors with superior resources. Now the odds are catching up to him, and he knows it. The big-money teams are using financial resources to sway the draft and free agency in their favor. (The big-money clubs can overpay for draft choices, for instance, and thereby benefit from the agents’ desire to steer their clients to the larger payoff and away from clubs with the inability to pay.)

Beane really has only one choice: Play for the Black Swan event. Keep your exposure limited most of the time, then take your shot when you perceive favorable odds, though still long-shot. The Tampa Bay Rays were the worst team in baseball in 2007. World Series the next year. The Black Swan event!

I think Beane saw an opportunity, took his shot, and just missed it. (Kinda like Matt Holliday on any number of pitches this year.) But because he has kept his exposure limited (just look at the exposure the Tigers have with their payroll) he lives to fight again.

None of this is to say I am not pissed about what has happened. Beane is a big boy who has lived a charmed existence. If you accept the accolades and the Brad Pitt casting, you have to take the crap, too. But I just can’t see how he has been as incompetent, or as negligent as you imply.

"Have you heard? It’s in the stars.
Next July, we collide with Mars!"
-Cole Porter

by ptbarnum on May 17, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

by you OR by others? sure, in hindsight you can create a playoff-caliber team if you go back and pick over the best ideas thrown out by 2,000 people.

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think you've got it, old chap!

Maybe the best ideas thrown out by 2,000 people then winnowed down are the best way to run a club.

Maybe the club could be better run if all major decisions were made by AN polls.

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 18, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

AN polls + a time machine

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

btw your FK link doesn't work.

Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom

by designatedforassignment on May 18, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we can do it without the time machine...

Remember Grandstand Managers’ Day?

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 18, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have an issue with #2

The rebuilding plan was accelerated/altered when Beane concluded that the 2009 AL West would be up for grabs. Setting your bar at competing in a crappy division doesn’t guarantee you’ll compete throughout the league. It falls in line with Beane’s “crapshoot” theory, but if it’s become a philosophy, the organization is in trouble.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
-Wayne Gretzky"
-Michael Scott

by scatterbrian on May 17, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm a bit disappointed in this post

i agree with several of your points, but I think you take it a bit too far especially considering we’re only 20 percent through the season.

you seemed at least semi-optimistic in the offseason when beane made all these moves. your emotional post doesn’t have enough substance behind it. If you were beane what would you have done differently?

probably avoided trying to compete this season? so we wouldn’t be in a much different position…
we’d have cargon and a tiny bit more money.

in my mind beane did a nice job giving the team a chance to make the playoffs this year. they were projected to win the division by several reliable sources (BP?). You didn’t seem to argue against these projections too strongly then, and thus I don’t think you have enough backup for you to make such a strong statement after on 20 percent of the season.

I just noticed above that you suggested picking up wolf and branyan. i’d say going it to the season i’d put nomar or gamabi chances at succeeding as high or higher than branyan. Wolf , while being injury prone, or another starter would have been nice though. It’s a shame basically all the young starters have struggled thus far, it was tough to predict that.

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 4:04 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

actually it was reasonable to expect young prospects

who probably would benefit from at least half a season of AAA to struggle.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

i agree that we had to expect that some would struggle…

however to expect gallagher, eveland, cahill, anderson, outman, and gio gonzalez too all struggle was more than I expected. i’m guessing that all six of these guys are pitching worse than their preseason projections, except maybe outman and braden of course…

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it would have made much more sense

not to have to have all of them come up to the big club this season, at least not so early. They did so because Beane did not trade for or sign a decent veteran starter, hoping that Duchscherer would be healthy enough to be the veteran ace.

I agree that more was expected — and reasonably so — of Gallagher and Eveland.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They showed interest in Randy Johnson.

I’d much rather have had RJ than Randy Wolf.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not me

he hasn’t been particularly impressive for the Giants. Wolf, on the other hand, has been better…and I believe he’s cheaper as well.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We're talking about less than 50 innings here.

Wolf’s BABIP is .243
Johnson’s is .337

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the Giants have a more experienced rotation than the A's

they can handle Johnson for one year. He’s in the NL west where he wanted to be.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it sounded

like RJ really wanted to sign with a NL team anyway.

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree

like Nico, I’ve always thought that Cahill should have started the season in AAA. I agree that the A’s should have traded for or signed a Wolf, Johnson or some other veteran starter especially when duke went down.

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dbeach13, what I said then, and say now,

is that this organization needs to address 3B and SS and keeps not doing it.

I said that about 3B and SS 3-4 years ago. How you roll the dice on a weak division now, and still keep rebuilding for later, is you get a good young 3Bman or SS and hope he’s ready to contribute now (kind of like they have done with Cahill and Anderson), knowing that if he’s not at least you’re still getting better for later.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that or just go after a solid but not spectacular type

Allen Craig, Ryan Freese, etc.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok

i can agree with that. i do remember you asking for those two things for quite awhile. i’m not sure if any of the surefire prospects were available, but I agree that Beane should have at least attempted to get more prospect depth at those positions the past few years.

that being said – it would probably be easy enough to trade carter or one of the other top prospects for a 3B/SS right? I’m guessing that Beane has been thinking in the back of his mind.

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Screw the surefire prospects

Just get a guy who won’t embarrass himself and won’t miss 130 games a year.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hannahan

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Embarrasses himself at the plate

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you name a couple of 3Bs who are the kind of player you're talking about?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

Melvin Mora
Brandon Inge
Josh Fields
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Casey Blake (but not for the money he got)
Ryan Freese
Allen Craig

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mora's still getting $8m a year, isn't he?

Inge would be great to have now, no doubt. But he made $6m last year and hit worse than Hannahan. Kouzmanoff is still pre-arb and would cost something to get from SD. I don’t see what’s so great about Fields. Do you mean David Freese with the Cardinals? I’ve never seen him, but he looks like a late bloomer who might be a power prospect (maybe like Craig Paquette?). What would the Cards have demanded for him? Similar situation with Craig, though he’s younger and maybe more of a prospect (though still in AAA).

The open market for these guys is something like $8m/year. If the complaint on this thread is, “Billy, either compete or rebuild, make up your mind!” then unless you can get one of the younger guys on your list for not a whole lot in a trade, it sounds like the “middle of the road” type decision people are upset about here.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See I'd much rather have Chase Headley or Ian Stewart

That’s still really rebuilding for a great future – it costs you a lot of (pitching, young OF) talent back but that’s what you have.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, to be fair, Billy did almost trade himself for Youkilis

Do you think he could still get that deal?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We sure need to trade for a 3B

I think it would take Holliday and some top pitching prospects to get one because whoever gets Holliday is probably only renting. I think Holliday goes back to the NL.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 4:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ouch, what a game.

Losses like this make me feel like somebody just jammed a needle through my nether regions.

Or.. wait.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd post a Bob Flanagan picture here,

but all the good ones are not only NSFW, but NSFH either!

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have time to read all these comments...

But, doesn’t it seem like David Forst has the keys to this team? Maybe Beane needs to take away his driving permit for the time being.

by Colorado Fan on May 17, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

if frost

is doing most of the work and we’re still failing, then what’s the point of firing beane? we’ll have the same result.

you guys need to pick an argument either:
a) beane is a slacker figure head that doesn’t make any decisions
OR
b) beane is making poor decisions and should be fired

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the question is whether Beane has been making these decisions

or whether he’s been leaving them up to Forst. I don’t think anyone here knows the answer. Regardless of who is making the decision, they are being questioned.

the criticisms and questioning you’re reading here are largely from people who have tended in the past not to support that view.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok

i can see that – some here are complaining for A and others are saying it’s B. Nico’s post kind of includes both though…

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know. I'm not usually one to complain much

since i love baseball and I understand that you can’t win every year or have all of your decisions work out.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

besides, the AL is a .500 league anyway

give or take :)

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is very likely

Especially when asking yourself why Forst continues to remain here in Oakland as a “lowly” assistant and not the main man. Seattle, a team with a big payroll, wanted to interview him for their GM vacancy and he declined.

I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.

by franks a lot on May 18, 2009 6:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not much to add...

but I completely agree with the post, though the little Ellis bit made me sad. :(

I hope Beane reads it.

Awww… Unicorn's optimistic. And a cheeseball. That’s cute. ~Whiteshoes40

by #14fan on May 17, 2009 4:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

As I read Nico's post and the always excellent comments, i'm struck by two things...

1.) the subtitle to Moneyball no longer seems accurate…“the art of winning an unfair game.” winning? how quaint.

2.) the parallels between beane’s baseball career and his GM career. hot start and then disappointment.

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 4:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

what's

the A’s overall record since Beane has been a GM, and how does that rank in MLB (i’m assuming top ten)?

now what has the A’s overall payroll been since Beane has been a GM, i’m sure it’s in the bottom ten.

Despite the recent poor performance, the overall picture is still favorable in my mind.

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, there's an ALCS appearance 2 seasons ago

Then 2 seasons proving that the team needed to make some changes.

The problem isn’t that the team needs to rebuild. Like Nico said, the problem is that the rebuild isn’t finished.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regardless of the term

I 100% agree with Nico in that CF, 3B, and SS long term solutions have not been addressed.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

*cough* Brett Wallace *cough*

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Draft him instead of Jemile Weeks

Shit, wait

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it looks like an effort was made on SS/2B with drafts

and CF with a trade (Carlos Gonzalez) that was rescinded with the Holliday trade.

Beane has traded away 3B prospects (Teahan), passed up draft 3B prospects (Wallace), and let possible prospects get away (Guzmán) repeatedly in these last few years.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

we have lots of guys in progress and i hope it works...

but seems like we’re betting heavily on cardenas…who was not drafted by us.

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know. What worries me is that too many of the best prospects

in the A’s minor league system (both drafted and traded for) don’t seem to be succeeding once they do come up.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

or they lack defensive skills...

and move to positions of strength already.

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

how is

losing basically no prospects of consequence other than cargon mean it’s aborted?

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the bigger issue is that is that guys we've received in trades like barton and meyer...

have not performed for whatever reason (including bad luck) and our drafting has left a lot to be desired.

i’ve very hopeful that DLS has good potential, gio gonzalez/eveland turn potential into major league production, cunningham/buck play successfully everyday, but there’s a lot of ifs. too many ifs given what we’ve traded

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't understand why people don't think this team drafts well.

They do.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

From 99 till now

Buck
Street
Suzuki
Braden
Quintanilla
Etihier
Swisher
BLanton
Teahen
Papelbon (unsigned)
Crosby
Bonderman
Cotts
Bynum
Harden
Zito
Ludwick
Mulder
Laird
Byrnes

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it does us no good, if those guys are not on our roster helping us...or

 the pieces we acquired in trades are not on our roster.

we’ve done a pretty good job with pitchers…hitters on the other hand at important defensive positions has been less good

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

all contributors,

but no stars, other than Mulder and Zito…

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Papelbon? Ethier? Harden? Street? Suzuki?

Regardless, when presented with the list of contributors, the argument then changes to “omg they’re not on our roster”

That wasn’t the question posed.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It shows they picked talent.

Whether or not they signed isn’t really relevant when you’re discussing the talent evaluation process.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You do that by acquiring talent.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i know...

but we are going to do it by making great trades and drafting well.

judging by our major and minor league teams, we’ve done more trading to acquire talent than drafting it.

we’ve traded a lot of good pieces (harden, swisher, haren, mulder, hudson) and we’ve gotten some great pieces. but we’ve gotten more “what ifs” and “could be’s,” then studs.

you and i are talking past each other, but here’s the bottomline. this team is awful to watch. the young talent isn’t delivering yet.

in the real world results matter. in the theoretical world, process matters. i prefer results and results are less than good.

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, they don't.

Whether the draftees currently play for us has nothing to do with how well the A’s drafted.

by Rocktopus on May 17, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It absolutely does

Saying that not signing a draft pick doesn’t make it bad pick is as silly that signing a FA is good regardless of cost. After all, doesn’t the overall talent on the team increase (assuming the FA is not a below replacement player)?

Resources are scarce and everything has an opportunity cost. Papelbon fell to the A’s not because no one saw his talent. Papelbon fell to the A’s because he was not signing in the draft.

However, in the round he was picked, the upside of signing him, though unlikely, made the pick worthwhile. If that’s what you’re arguing, I agree.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on May 18, 2009 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I confused the topics there.

I wasn’t talking about signability. I was talking about whether Mark Teahen, Andre Ethier, Barry Zito, etc., were good picks despite the fact that they don’t currently play for Oakland. I don’t understand why inbillywetrust doesn’t want to take players such as those into account when measuring Oakland’s draft success.

But even in spite of my error, I would say that you can’t ignore the draftees who didn’t sign. If we’re trying to measure how well the A’s drafted, Papelbon and Smoak should be considered, though of course so should be the likelihood that they would have signed.

by Rocktopus on May 18, 2009 4:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

because i'm trying to root for an actual team, not some mythical

could’ve been team. we can be warm in cozy with all the great players we drafted but don’t play us. why is it so hard to understand that i don’t want moral victories, i want actual victories.

by inbillywetrust on May 18, 2009 6:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't know any other way to put it.

What does that have to do with the A’s drafting abilities?

by Rocktopus on May 18, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But

many would be an upgrade to what we field right now: Ethier, Swisher, Papelbon, Teahen, Ludwick would all start and Paps would close on this years team. Just saying…

Baja been here

by bajablue on May 18, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps a better word would be "backtracked"

unless Sweeney is considered a legitimate centerfielder.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which brings me to talent evaluation...

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

how many comments have you made in the past year and a half praising sweeney?

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

um, do AN search to back up your call-outs.

Nico on Jan 11, 2009

I see Sweeney’s true line as .270/.350/.400. Which would be fine if he were a plus CFer like Carlos Gonzalez was, or like Denorfia and Davis are, but it doesn’t thrill me given his CF-ability.

Nico on Dec 25, 2008

At worst, Sweeney should be good for a line of around .250/.330/.360 with decent defense, while that describes a best case scenario, over the last three seasons, for Crosby at SS

Nico on Nov 8, 2008

my fear is that Sweeney will not develop much power and as a result will peak around where he is now, which is why I’m ok with him being dealt. But I have a feeling Billy likes him better than I do – and maybe he’s right.

And I’m not really cherry-picking. I didn’t see mad Sweeney love anywhere.

by ohmangoAs on May 19, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I don't dislike Sweeney either

I’ve just said, from the start, that he’s neither a power hitter nor a CFer.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 19, 2009 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

a guy who writes frong page stories every other day and thousands of comments

has stated his opinion of sweeney three times, and never before november 08?

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 19, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

(front page)

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 19, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beane tried to repeat 2006 in 2007

with largely the same cast – but with his friend instead of Macha at the helm. When Thomas signed with Toronto instead he got Piazza for the samw amount that he’d offered Thomas (for one year, but only becaseu Piazza didn’t want to sign for two years). He also signed Bradley for 2007, betting that Bradley would stay healthy enough to be productive. He betted on Chavez being healthy enough to be productive, although it was known that Chavez was playing hurt, and that there was some thought even then that he should have had shoulder surgery immediately following the ALCS. It was also known that Kotsay was having back trouble, although Kotsay did not have surgery until spring training 2007.

When practically everything that could go wrong in 2007 did he began to get rid of some people, such as Bradley and Kendall. Then they were faced with a decision: patch up and hope to do better 2008 with nearly the same crew, or begin the rebuilding, stocking up on prospects and aiming for a contending club probably in 2010-11. that’s when he decided to cash in on Haren’s high value. Swisher was not a planned trade, but the White Sox offer was too good to pass up. The rebuilding continued in the middle of 2008, when they traded Harden and Blanton.

The trade for Holliday (including the immediate future centerfielder) seemed like a shift toward contending in what looked like a weaker AL west in 2009. But you don’t contend without pitching….and the A’s best pitching prospects were probably not all going to be ready for 2009. Beane counted heavily on Eveland and Gallagher improving — too heavily, we now know. I don’t fault him for that. But Duchscherer should not have been relied on to be the veteran ace.

Trading for Holliday probably helped the A’s to sign Giambi (though J’s likely first and second choices, Yankees and Rays, didn’t want him). Having Giambi and Holliday made the A’s more attractive to Nomar and Cabrera (though Cabrera had wanted a bigger and longet term contract).

Relying on Chavez to be healthy and productive was probably the biggest mistake — though it was nothing new, and with Chavvy’s contract it’s no surprise; the second biggest mistake if the club was to make a contending run in 2009 was to not get a veteran starter.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe I read that the Rays did indeed want Giambi and were offering more money,

but he took the lower amount to come back ‘home’ to Oakland. I’d have to search for the source though.

by LoneStranger on May 17, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe they signed Burrell pretty early on

but you may be right. Most of the free agents (Burrell, Giambi, Dunn, Abreu, Cabrera, etc.) asked for more money and years than they eventually signed for.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rays chose Burrell

Nearly immediately after the A’s signed G.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on May 18, 2009 2:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 17, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

you’re right that more weight should probably be given to the current trend. I don’t think we can just look at our current record though…

our minor league system ranked in the top 3 by basically all of the experts. that needs to be taken into account.

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, but lately it seems the people who are highly touted in the system...

…either struggle mightily at the major league level or wind up somewhere else. How much of that is them being brought up too soon is definitely up for debate.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the strength of our minor league is now in the majors...

cunningham, anderson and cahill.

now we need to rebuild the upper level minors. hopefully guys like cardenas, doolittle, carter, brown, etc…continue their pace of development.

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sure but the strength of our minors was traded for...not generated organically...

which means that we’ve give up someting of value to get this strength.

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quote

“I told (our staff) that I could send ‘TBA’ for all three games,” Geren said Wednesday. “Or, we could go with (Brett) Anderson, (Dallas) Braden and (Trevor) Cahill and change it if we need to.”—Geren
I think these pitchers are unconfident to say the least. Geren needs to say who is going to start for sure. Pitchers seldom pitch well, especially young & inexperienced, when they are left to wonder when their next start is. If this was the rotation then he should’ve said point blank instead of making it some mystery. Obviously, this is beyond competition anymore and turned into nerves. If he don’t like the pitcher, shitcan him, and let the next guy know when his day is. Pitcher’s need time to prepare mentally for each start. Sad but true in most cases. I believe this helped the Tigers beat us.

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 4:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The reason they were looking at "TBA" as a possibility...

…has everything to do with the statuses at the time of Anderson and Braden.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

For starters, I’m incredibly frustrated too. But there are things to be positive about. To me, Anderson and Cahill still have showed all the promise I expected. The results haven’t been there, but there is nothing I see that tells me they can’t be front of the rotation starters. If one of Gallagher-Gonzalez-Mazzaro-Braden can be a 3 man, you’ve got a nice foundation. I think Braden can definitely be at least a 4, so your pitching isn’t too bad. The pen is fine – Ziegler is an ok setup man, Bailey can close, Casilla is fine, and we’ve got some flamethrowers on the way. Even Jeff Gray looked alright to me – not sure why they were so quick to send him on his way.

Now on offense, hey, I’m frustrated too. I think we can get by with 2 of Sweeney-Buck-Cunningham as the corner outfielders, as long as we have two mashers in the infield. Suzuki is at least an MLB average catcher. I mean, we did score 7 runs today. If Holliday picks it up, hopefully we can get back one piece in return for him. We’ll be okay.

My bigger concern, though, is Beane’s newfound willingness to pay for mediocrity. I know Ellis is a huge fan favorite, but doesn’t Adam Kennedy prove how much we overpaid for the guy? I mean Elly is okay, and at his best he’s great defensively – but he also was coming off an injury, and didn’t have tremendous upside. Yet we give him 5-6 m a year? I just don’t really get why. We always say we can’t afford a star, yet for the 5.5m to Ellis, 4m to Cabrera, 6m to giambi, we did shell out 16m. That’s enough to land a star. Then you trade for Kennedy, swallow hard on Crosby at SS, and you’re alright. The way to win this game is to get stars. Billy is great at finding guys to be league average.

by SeanR on May 17, 2009 4:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The way to win is to get stars?

Tell that to the Yankees.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

uh....

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on May 17, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK

But wouldn’t you rather have the Yankees roster than ours? But thats nonsense.

Look at the Phils, though. Two huge stars in Utley and Howard, a star pitcher in Hamels, star closer in Lidge, and the rest of the team is about league average. Now that isn’t fair to Shane Victorino, but its roughly accurate. The talent Beane has is his ability to fill holes with league average players. He’s good at finding league minimum bargains. If we could find a way to get just two or three real studs (obviously this was the idea with holliday), he could fill in the bits.

But thats the scary thing with the Holliday trade. We dealt away the one guy we had who could truly be a 5 tool player. Let’s hope we get a similar prospect back for Matt.

by SeanR on May 17, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Phils roster is, IMO, more desirable than the Yankees.

But when you have a $200M payroll, you can afford to give a 38 year old Jorge Posada a 3 year 45 million dollar contract and not give a shit.

When Beane does that and it doesn’t work, we’re stuck with Jermaine Dye and his broken leg.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rollins, Werth, and Madson are all above average

(though Rollins has been slipping since his MVP) and LF (Burrell, no Ibanez) has been above average, too.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

at the time of the ellis deal, commentators elsewhere were saying the union should block it because the a's were taking advantage of ellis
My bigger concern, though, is Beane’s newfound willingness to pay for mediocrity. I know Ellis is a huge fan favorite, but doesn’t Adam Kennedy prove how much we overpaid for the guy?

now a month later it was a terrible signing because ellis is injured (not even the same injury he had before) and because adam kennedy has performed well over seven games

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure he is

They’ll figure it out… or not

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They let the one

guy go who had a half way decent record last year… and that was with the lack of run support… they gave his job to an unproven pitcher… smart move

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They potentially got a 3B solution in return for him, though.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cardenas.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baisley

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly my point.

These guys all need somewhere to play.

Though, it could very well be that they want Cardenas to be a MLB second baseman. He’d be a well above average bat for the position and if he could even play “sufficient” defense, he’d be a very good guy to have there.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

we need to play guys with the best chance to make the majors

at their likely positions.

baisley, petit, pennington, etc…should not be given everyday opportunities over cardenas and patterson and others coming up…

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baisley, Petit, and Pennington have all made the majors already.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So it appears the plan for Cardenas is to be Ellis' heir apparent at 2B.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See there's the problem.

What do you do with the other 3 mentioned guys? Cardenas is, from what we can tell, not MLB ready yet.

When injuries force you to call up a guy from Sac, it needs to be a guy who has been playing every day. What good is Baisley going to be if he’s on the bench for 2 weeks and then called up to Oakland

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

what i meant is that if you think...

cardenas is the everyday future 3B, then he gets the bulk of the playing time there…or he should.

as for the rest…yes, it’s a conundrum.

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

turned

it into a preseason competition which shouldn’t have had no question

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who, Blanton?

You mean the guy who was nobody special?

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

Eveland… as if these guys are really hanging in the bigs

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely

Are you suggesting what they are doing now is a solution?

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eveland

should have been #1 with these group of guys… he was #2 behind Duke

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously, that's more an indictment of the others than anything else

Check Eveland’s splits last year. It wasn’t until he got back from Sacramento that his walks dipped and his K/BB ratio improved. His problem was some of those walks became hits, so either way he was still allowing an average of three baserunners for every two innings pitched. He’s just not a very effective pitcher and he’s regressed terribly so far this year.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You seem to be forgetting how bad Eveland's control was last year

To the point they sent him to Sacramento to iron it out. Then he came back and pitched better by the end of the season only to regress even worse so far this year.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW

Blanton nailed down a couple playoff victories for the Phil’s… Way to go Joe!!! World Series ring and all. Talk all you want.

by SFBAsportsfan on May 17, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't change the fact he wasn't pitching well here

He wasn’t much better in Philly after the trade, but he did get more run support.

He was better in the playoffs. Good for him.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 17, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he'll be remembered for his WS dinger

long after he’s dead…

DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 17, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1,000,000

While it’s true that you can’t fire the players so you fire the manager, hiring a good manager can make a huge difference.

I remember when the A’s hired LaRussa in 1986. That was a team that was going nowhere. Some good young pitchers, and excellent management (or over-management, depending on how you look at it) catapulted them to the top. I guess the ‘roids didn’t hurt either. Have we considered that option?

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

:)

.

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 17, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This won't happen

Beane extended Geren’s contract this past off season. And most importantly, this may fracture their friendship, forcing Beane to photoshop out Bob Geren from his wedding photo album.

I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.

by franks a lot on May 18, 2009 6:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Idea

Why don’t we trade the Mets Aaron Cunningham for Murphy?

Then we can play Murphy in the IF where he belongs, and our OF glut is a little smaller. For the Mets, they can actually get an outfielder who can, you know, play the outfield.

by SeanR on May 17, 2009 4:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Might as well trade Buck for him.

Since the team seems to hate Buck anyway.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need to make changes..

A LOT of changes. Like I’m talking a full team change. I dont know exactly what i’m talking about but i’m just so frustrated. I HATE going into a season so excited to watch games, go to games, cheer and all that and then realizing a month into the season that I won’t be doing any of that. UGH

by missssteryash on May 17, 2009 4:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow Nico

Very, very well said. I could not agree more. An example of the reason I read every one of your posts.

"There's not a moment of peace and quiet in this damn clubhouse." ~~ Nick Swisher

by luvsthecurveball on May 17, 2009 4:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Im glad im not in a position of power

I would make some emotional moves right now that would probably hurt this teams chances this year.

First: I would send Cahill and Anderson down to AAA. They both need to work on an out pitch and the A’s could preserve some service time.

Second: I would cut Crosby outright, 5 million be damned. (I cant stomach him in an A’s jersey anymore)

Third: Bob Geren would be fired right away.

I know that these moves would’nt make a huge differance this year but I sure would feel better for a day or two.

by asfaninpismobeach on May 17, 2009 4:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't look now

But Crosby has been one of the better hitters so far :X

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No power to speak of

But his OBP is .370

From him, I’ll take it.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crosby is one of the most productive hitters on the team this year, Pismo

He’s getting on base as well as anyone, including Cust and Suzuki. I know we ended up losing the game, but he worked a BB after a great AB in the 1st, and the next pitch was the bases-clearing 2B by Powell.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sad and seems to be true--(and the A's are following the Raiders into oblivion)

In recent years, as I watched my beloved Raiders be almost completely ruined by all around pathetic management led by an out-of-touch owner, I could always take solace in my beloved A’s. But now it seems they are following suit and I would never have expected it. What the hell is it with Bay Area sports franchises and management problems (Warriors, Giants, 49ers in addition to the Raiders and now the A’s)?

by Mark A on May 17, 2009 4:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Sharks are very well managed, w/ SI naming ownership 4th best in the NHL

However, in recent years, the team is oft picked to win it all only to crash & burn in the playoffs

It’s been a tough couple decades for Bay Area Sports. If I recall right, the only two teams to win championships in recent years (AFL Sabercats and MLS Earthquakes) were dismantled, shipped out, shutdown…

I'm a happy seal

by SwisherThresher on May 17, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My two cents...

Looking at the bigger picture, all GMs make errors. Injuries happen.

I think Billy Beane had, up until the Blanton trade, done an excellent job when it comes to dealing with pitching. Look over all that time, and only ONE starter traded away amounted to anything, and that’s Aaron Harang…and he was traded at a time the A’s were contending, for a rental to help put them over the top. I can almost excuse the Haren trade because of the haul, and the Harden trade because of the injury factor and the acquisition of Gallagher…but the Blanton trade - dumping a horse who is your primary innings-eater when everyone not named Duchsherer looks shaky, that was dumb then. And it’s even dumber now. And compounding the problem, trading your best trade bait, Huston Street, for a one-year outfield rental and wasting money on an unnecessary cog like Cabrera left the rotation in tatters because there was no money for a Randy Wolf and/or Jon Lieber to mark time and allow the Andersons and Cahills and Mazzarros to develop properly in the minor leagues.

At the other end, though, when looking at position players. Two lists. Players from the organization the A’s kept in the post-Crosby years, who worked out: Suzuki, who’s great; Swisher, who’s a back-up now. Just those two. Players the A’s gave up who are MLB players now: Ethier, Teahen, Angel Berroa, Estaban German, Nelson Cruz, and I’m probably missing one or two.

What does that mean? It means that either the organization isn’t properly scouting itself, or that there’s a systemic failure within the organization to develop position player talent, I think it’s the latter and I think it really needs to be addressed.

The Geren issue is something again. A manager has three roles: spring training mentor, in-game managing, and playing group shrink. In making comments about the manager’s role, Beane only talked about in-game work, and he’s right: that’s no big deal and hunches generally even out. But the other roles, as mentor and shrink…Geren’s a dud. The team plays with neither decent execution nor much passion.

by richwol1 on May 17, 2009 5:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nitpick

Angel Berroa is not from the “post-Crosby years”. He left in the three-way trade with Ellis, Damon, etc., before the 2001 season. Crosby was drafted later that year.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 18, 2009 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

trade thought

i know we don’t usually work with the Angels, but I wonder if they would interested in a Barton (plus maybe another prospect) for Brandon Wood.

It’s looking more and more like we’ll go from Giambi to Carter at 1B and Barton will be left out.

Wood who can play SS AND 3B was once considered one of the top prospects in the game like Barton. It seems like the Angels have little faith in him now based on his short unsuccessful stints in the majors

I’d probably be even willing to trade Holliday for Wood+

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 5:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

to go along with personal relationship with geren/chavez comment:

the a’s have one of if not the highest turnover rate of players in the league. I’m sure beane has had a personal relationship with a lot of players that left the team – swisher, zito, etc. I agree that you need a lot more backup information before making such a controversal statement that you want beane to see.

a personally enjoy beane’s interviews on this site, and I would hope something like this wouldn’t affect that…

by dbeach13 on May 17, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beane has actually admitted that his relationship with Chavez has colored his objectivity

And his connection, personally, to Geren is way above any nice connection he has had with any given player who came through.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who keeps coloring the "opposing" viewpoints in green?

I would say it’s because of the rose-colored glasses, but that wouldn’t make any sense.

Plainly put, Billy Beane has done a really, really, horribly bad, embarassing job. Denying that is intellectually insulting.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on May 17, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

c'mon man

i know you’re frustrated. we all are. but let’s not put counter-arguments into the category of so stupid they don’t deserve anyone’s time. Nico presented an argument that takes a somewhat extreme position. He makes some good points but it doesn’t mean that if we disagree it’s “intellectually insulting”. Defending the other side is justified and if anything it’s intellectually stimulating. (As evidenced by the recs)

by chipper1001 on May 18, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

look a little closer

arguments from Beane apologists and critics alike have been colored green. As well as other arguments, like alea iacta est’s “whatever, go do something else” argument.

by Cutthemullet on May 18, 2009 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Intellectually insulting?

hmmm. Care to outline an answer to my fanpost? I say this with absolutely no snark…it’s fun to debate things. There are definitely some big mistakes, but you have set yourself up to proving a high (or should I say low) standard :)

Plainly put, Billy Beane has done a really, really, horribly bad, embarassing job.

by ohmangoAs on May 18, 2009 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yo, LCJ

I’ve had my share of disagreements with you, but I have to say, great post right here. And I like Nico’s too, because there’s also little doubt that the A’s are one of the most boring teams in the league. In terms of entertainment value alone, I’d rate them right alongside the Pirates and Padres as the teams that would be least appealing for the neutral fan. As a counterexample, the Orioles suck, and there’s no chance that they won’t suck, but Nick Markakis is one of the most exciting players in the league, and Adam Jones, Brian Roberts, Matt Wieters soon make them an entertaining 72-90-caliber team. This is a boring 81-81-caliber team.

by Cutthemullet on May 18, 2009 1:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

81-81

is giving them too much credit at the moment

by Trainman on May 18, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LCJ is back!

if you’re reading this, email me.

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Call Lew.

Check the books.

Let us know.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on May 17, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is going to be a long season w/lots of dreck

Losing is easier to deal with if there’s a minimum amount of competence and focus on the field, and in both of these areas this team is getting to be unwatchable. It’s like they know they suck and now they’re just punching the time clock.

I’ve been wondering about the little hitters meeting that OCab called last week – here’s a guy hitting in the low 200’s, a one-year rental, and why would he care? I wonder if it’s because he comes from teams that don’t accept losing lightly, and from managers (Guillen, Scioscia) who don’t accept a lack of focus and hustle. Maybe he was trying to compensate for Geren’s complete lack of leadership.

by coffee roaster on May 17, 2009 5:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The good thing is....

A ten game winning streak can completely change things. That is what makes baseball a great game. I am very understanding of the frustration that it is to be an A’s fan today. I think it’s a little early though. Nothing is out of reach yet. The only thing that needs to change now is the accountability of each and every guy and the passion to play. I am sure Bob Geren is a good guy, but it is not difficult to see that he is not the answer. We need an intense Manager. I really miss Tony LaRussa.

by Boozhound on May 17, 2009 5:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

to be fair to geren (not sure why i'm doing this)...

but he’s got an offense that’s generating no power (actual, not potential) and a very young pitching staff…

by inbillywetrust on May 17, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt...

the firing of Geren is not the only answer. I just think it is a start. Most of the time I am not usually on the side of the fence that wants a manager fired. In this case, I cant think of a reason to keep him. I think it would be a great decision by upper management to let everyone know that losing is not acceptable in the organization. We have seen it in the past. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

Just a start…com’on…Bob Geren..reeeaaalllyyy!!!????

Fire Bob Geren!

by Boozhound on May 17, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Firing Geren won't solve all the problems of course

But it would improve the quality of the product on the field. As richwol1 puts it upthread, one of the main roles of the manager is to be group shrink. And Geren is clearly terrible at this. Find someone who’ll light a fire under the team and it will play better and be more fun to watch. And that just might also positively affect the development of the young players in the medium-to-long run.

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 17, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forst/Beane has done a rotten job of drafting talent.

That is the bottom line. If we drafted like the Twins, Braves, and so on and so forth, we wouldn’t be debating this sh*t right now. Look at the whole bunch of them from Buck, Pennington, Powell, Putnam, Robnett, and so on forever……….Forst/Beane have tried to be too cute with drafting players that won’t be modeling jeans or whatever the hell was said in moneyball. Now the chickens have come home to roost BIG TIME and the b.s. needs to end. You have to draft players will skills, but also some physical upside. It was apparent to every scout but ours that Sweeney was not projected to have any power. Well, it was true. Look at him now. A 6’4" singles hitter. Same with Suzuki. The second coming of Jason Kendall! Good average, no power. We need to draft/develop some gawd damn sluggers because it is too expensive to get them on the free agent market. So what do we do? We draft a bunch of wimpy hitters. Hello Jemile Weeks.

by pedoman on May 17, 2009 6:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

How about the Rule 5 draft

Passing on high upside gambles like Hamilton and “pure talent” gambles like Soria in favor of guys like Mike Neu, Ryan Goleski, Ben Copeland?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that has never made any sense and never will

The A’s seem to think that the meaning of Rule 5 is that only 5th outfielders can be drafted….not a time to pass on upside.

by Cutthemullet on May 18, 2009 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alot of people passed on Hamilton so you can’t blame Beane for not thinking a 24 year old ex-drug addict who hadn’t played above A ball was going to explode like that. Hell the Cubs even drafted him and then traded him. Soria looks like a big one missed and I can’t understand the point of picking Copeland but the truth is a lot more Mike Neu’s come out of the Rule V than actual difference makers.

by DeJay on May 18, 2009 5:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it drafting or developing talent?

You can give me the finest three pounds of Kobe beef in all of Japan, and it will still taste bad (trust me). You know what I mean though?

by Pucking Insane on May 17, 2009 6:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good post Nico

Sadly you are 100 percent right

Thank you Al Davis for Michael Crabtree!!!!!

by Athletic on May 17, 2009 6:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree, sort of...

I don’t think Geren has done a poor job—considering what he has to work with. I’m listening to the espn Sunday night telecast, and listening to Joe Morgan makes Geren sound like a freakin’ genius. Do you remember way back when the A’s wanted a change in philosophy (along with skippers) and they hired Steve Boros and then Jackie Moore? Can you compare Geren to the ineptitude of those two former managers? Geren lacks the fire of a field leader—I agree with that. I’d give anything to see a Davey Johnson or Tim Foli manage the team. This past week I saw two different A’s players not running hard to 1st base. I remember when Billy Martin sat Mike Heath for several games because of the same infraction; yet Geren praises his players for their hustle. It’s one thing to be a positive leader, and it’s another to constantly portray the team as seen through rose-colored glasses. I hope Geren will receive a “wake-up” call and start managing this bunch of misfits.

by Flamethrower on May 17, 2009 6:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

money

To the folks who are complaining about the the fans who point out the fact that the A’s don’t spend money I don’t get it are you investors? John Fisher and his front man Lew Wolff have made money on the A’s every year they’ve owned the team and I’m still convinced they bought this team a real estate deal waiting to happen.

I still trust Billy Beane but this ship has to be righted and the A’s have to commit to keeping some players so the casual fan will have something to hold on to. I’ve said it more than once, I’d give Geren until the All Star Break and if he doesn’t have this team on the right track I’d cut him loose.

by sirbed on May 17, 2009 7:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The longer Geren remains

the longer this team is not on the right track. No point in waiting as it’s clear that Geren couldn’t manage his way out of a paper bag with holes in both ends. And holes in the sides as well.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget holes at SS, 3B, and CF

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The holes at SS, 3B and CF ...

… and the crater that is the 2009 starting rotation … are why this team is on the wrong track — not the manager. If there were enough Major League talent on this team, we’d all be fine with Bob Geren.

I would hit Cabrera last, not first, but I think most of his decisions have been sound.

I can’t argue with him not getting on his players in the media.

by Eck on May 17, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

so much to complain about

it is not even worth the typing. Every part of this team is a joke. The defense is as bad as i have ever seen…from a GM who values defense these days. lets get a comparison going to some of the worst A’s teams ever. 1977…1997 the 2009 edition will challenge them all by september. 4 o’clock tomorrow, lets go get em…maybe TB will hit the pitcher again

by KCB58 on May 17, 2009 7:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Where's Paul Thomas?

…would be interested to see what he had to say about this

by swerv on May 17, 2009 8:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I know he was always down on the Holliday trade

And he was the first person I heard suggest the A’s sign Branyan. I too would like to hear PT’s perspective, along with what he would do now, given all that is, to get the A’s back on track.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to toot my own horn

Ok solely to toot my own horn:

I’ve been on the Branyan wagon for a long time. I also wanted the A’s to sign Carlos Pena. Then again, I might have preferred Hee Seop Choi. Blind squirrel, nut. Nut, blind squirrel.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on May 18, 2009 2:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too soon to abandon ship. Even though it’s water under the proverbial bridge, the problem is as plain as the dimple on my cheek, giving up (or away) freaking great pitching. You know the names as well as I do, but for the record: Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Haren, Harden, Blanton. So we went from a team with the best damn pitching in the majors to a team with the worst damn pitching in the majors. On the other side of the bay, Zito is looking more and more like ZITO! The Freak is a franchise. And Cain, if he had three runs a game, would be a 20 game winner. Somewhere between here and there, Billy, there’s got to be a trade. They need a bat, we need an arm. Hell, we need a couple arms. I won’t dangle names because this is not Topps trading cards, it’s major league baseball and I’m nowhere as knowledgeable as Mr. Money Ball … BUT we have some of the best young hitters in baseball; throw in a couple plus, perhaps, a marquee slugger that can also play defense and Zito would be so welcomed back to the green ‘n gold (if, of course, Giants ate some of that contract). Or, if not across the bay, somewhere across these here United States and Canada is a pitcher that can go seven innings every four days and keep his ERA below a three. Then again, maybe I’m just heat-stroked but the A’s are not fun to watch. And it’s the one team I love watching more than any other. What say you, Billy?

20 wins in a row! Will it ever happen again?

by Johnny U on May 17, 2009 8:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Baseball Hell

Let’s face it folks we are all residing in baseball hell with this team. I agree 100% with Nico. Rooting for a losing team is one thing (remember the late 70’s?), but when any reasonable hope for the future is staring you in the face makes it really tough.

My problem (like I am sure of many others) is that I am an addict. My drug of choice is Oakland A’s baseball. I have been hooked since 1972.

Billy Beane has done some great things for this franchaise. He made watching the A’s fun and special. For that I am forever grateful.

However, it appears that he has lost his golden touch. Whether it is his “love” of soccer or something else, we all deserve more.

by KCa's on May 17, 2009 8:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I dunno. I dont really agree with this sudden backlash on Billy Beane

I think to imply he has lost interest in the A’s weakens whatever argument you are making by injecting pure speculation.

I have, and continue to, blame the A’s woes on Small Market Payroll Syndrome.

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on May 17, 2009 8:16 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

the Bay Area is not a small market

I’m assuming you mean low payroll — that the teams with lower MLB payrolls are doing worse? (The MLB payroll doesn’t take into account how much the organization spends on minor league player development, scouting, etc)

Let’s take a look at 2009 MLB payrolls (this can also be done with payrolls in other years):

2009 MLB payrolls
Team Payroll Average
Yankees $201,449,289 $7,748,050
Mets $135,773,988 $4,849,071
Cubs $135,050,000 $5,402,000
RedSox $122,696,000 $4,089,867
Tigers $115,085,145 $4,110,184
Angels $113,709,000 $4,061,036
Phillies $113,004,048 $4,185,335
Astros $102,996,415 $3,814,682
Dodgers $100,458,101 $4,018,324
Mariners $98,904,167 $3,532,292
Braves $96,726,167 $3,335,385
WhiteSox $96,068,500 $3,694,942
Cardinals $88,528,411 $3,278,830
Giants $82,161,450 $3,043,017
Indians $81,625,567 $3,023,169
BlueJays $80,993,657 $2,892,631
Brewers $79,857,502 $3,194,300
Rockies $75,201,000 $2,785,222
D-backs $73,571,667 $2,724,877
Reds $70,968,500 $2,957,021
Royals $70,908,333 $2,727,244
Rangers $68,646,023 $2,367,104
Orioles $67,101,667 $2,580,833
Twins $65,299,267 $2,251,699
Rays $63,313,035 $2,183,208
Athletics $62,310,000 $2,225,357
Nationals $59,328,000 $2,045,793
Pirates $48,743,000 $1,874,731
Padres $42,796,700 $1,528,454
Marlins $36,814,000 $1,314,786

There are teams with a payroll not much more than that of the A’s that are doing quite a bit better, and that also have strong minor league organizations, such as Texas, Tampa Bay, Minnesota, and Cincinnati.

It’s possible that how money is spent may be more the issue, as well as scouting, drafting, and possibly developing players…and the manager and coaching staff (the latter of which has had lots of turnover in recent years) might be considered.

by OaklandSi on May 17, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes, I meant payroll.

but I was referring to Oakland as the small market.

To be honest I think drafting is controlled by two additional factors people are largely ignoring:

1) luck
2) having a better draft slot because of a crappy team

maybe 2 will start working in our favor now.

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on May 17, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

woo... hoo?

FK
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is the A's market then?

I think saying the Bay Area is overinclusive.

by Rocktopus on May 18, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, it's not

the Bay Area has two MLB teams, one in the NL and one in the AL.

And both teams have broadcast affiliates and draw fans beyond the Bay Area.

This is nothing unique, by the way.

by OaklandSi on May 18, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't think the presence of the Giants cuts into that market at all?

The market seems a bit difficult to define, but I don’t believe it’s as large as the entire bay area and obviously it’s not as small as just Oakland.

by Rocktopus on May 18, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

obviously the markets overlap

just as they do in every market that has more than one major league club.

There is certainly enough population for more than one major league club here.

by OaklandSi on May 18, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both draw when they win

The difference is that the Giants can still draw pretty well because of their park even when not winning. Right now the Giants are a better run team in most aspects – media (KNBR), front office, farm system (baumgartner, Posey, etc.). But if we were winning or had a hope of winning we’d do a lot better. Just look at 89. Both teams competitive and both drew pretty well.

Baja been here

by bajablue on May 18, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

of course both draw when they win

and if the A’s were perceived as more entertaining than they are right now — and if they were marketed more positively — they would be drawing better than they are right now, older ballpark or not.

by OaklandSi on May 18, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Bay Area is not a small market, yes this is true

But it is the smallest 2 team market.

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on May 17, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

smaller than Chicago?

(which actually has 3 MLB clubs — Milwaukee is only 1 hour away)

by OaklandSi on May 18, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chicago is the 3rd largest metro, Bay Area is the 6th

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on May 19, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Bay Area

Is smaller than Chicago… roughly 7 million here and 10 million there. In between the Bay Area and Chicago there are two other, larger metro areas, Boston and Washington DC. Here is a table.

by jeffro on May 20, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

WTF?
blame the A’s woes on Small Market Payroll Syndrome.
the Bay Area is not a small market
I’m assuming you mean low payroll
Small Market Payroll Syndrome
Payroll

FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Their 2 big, recent trades have been just horrible

They gave up Jason Bartlett, Matt Garza, and Johan Santana, and got back Delmon Young and Carlos Gomez + a bunch of spare parts and a decent pitching prospect. Young has gotten worse since his rookie season, and has been atrocious this year. Gomez hits like the 09 version of Travis Buck. And those were the Twins’ 2 big targets, whom they anointed as 2/3 of the outfield of the future. If Beane made 2 trades like that you’d call him an idiot for it.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The worst thing the A's have done as an Organization, whoever the decision maker was,

was to let Ron Washington walk.

Talk about someone who plays with fire and passion everyday, not to mention the guy who made Chavez and Ellis the defensive monsters they are (were).

Two of the teams ahead of the A’s in the standings are managed by Ex-A’s coaches,

and the A’s are stuck with Bob “Whatever” Geren

My favorite player is whoever is hitting behind Bobby Crosby because no matter what they always look so good.

by supermarc589 on May 17, 2009 8:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wash would have been great

Only guessing but his personality and style would have clashed with Beane who wants managers who are puppets. I think Wash would have been too vocal.

by Trainman on May 17, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Washington is doing a good in Texas.

The team has been improving every year since he became manager

In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.

by javaball on May 17, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And in his first year, the team actually got worse, from 3rd place to 4th.

Not that any of that is an indication of Washington’s skills as a manager, but if that’s how you’re gonna frame the argument…

by Rocktopus on May 17, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree, supermarc589 - and I was strongly in favor of hiring Washington all along

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 17, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believed then, and still believe now,

that by the 2007 season it was too late to get Wash.

I can’t prove it, but I believe that in fall of 2006 Wash had already decided that he would prefer the Texas job to the Oakland job. The only reason he was interviewing for the Oakland position was in case the Texas offer didn’t come through. I also think that Billy knew this, and that’s why the decision to hire Geren was postponed for so long: Because even if he wanted to offer the job to Wash, he knew that Wash wouldn’t answer until he got word from Texas. Thus, Billy couldn’t make his decision until after Texas had made theirs.

If we wanted to lock up Ron Washington as manager, the time to do it would have been before the 2006 season, when Macha was temporarily fired then mysteriously rehired again.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 18, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply