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OK Anyway, So...To Finish Rebuilding...

Apparently, Billy Beane has listened to all of AN and Captain Obvious and decided, for the first time, that the A's must move on from Eric Chavez. Trouble is, it costs talent to acquire talent by trade, and with Haren, Swisher, Harden, Blanton, and Street already dealt, if the A's want to solve a still existing void it could come at a steep price. In this conversation, I will omit Adrian Cardenas because his future position is still unknown and he is also only 20 years old - so while he may solve 3B in a year, he may also solve 2B in 3 years. He fits somewhere - I'm not yet sure where or when - but he is one piece, somewhere, sometime, in the mix.

Third Base

If the A's want to get an exciting young 3Bman, like Chase Headley or Ian Stewart, they will likely have to part with an essential piece like Trevor Cahill or Brett Anderson - one step forward, one step back. A "poor man's" version, like Jhonny Peralta, has the advantages of being attainable for less talent and fitting some crucial needs (right-handed hitter with some power), but has the disadvantages of being overpaid and not that great. Where would you look, right now, to address 3B between now and 2011-12?

Shortstop
The A's need a SS next year, but could have help on the way by 2011 in the form of Dusty Coleman, who is currently raking for the Kane County Cougars. JJ Hardy is the obvious fit, someone who could even play 3B the rest of this season, and then SS next season, before becoming a free agent. You wonder what the A's would have to dangle to bring Hardy aboard this year or next.

Centerfield
I'm going to argue that the current A's still have not one, not two, but three voids to fill before they are contenders. Ryan Sweeney's defensive deficiencies are being exposed more each week and his power is still only a figment of the A's imagination and dreams. Sweeney actually reminds me a lot of Terrence Long, who had an incredible week defensively in CF but was otherwise really not that great, and who had more offensive promise (i.e., "a nice swing") than actual ability - which is to say that there is a such thing as a two-run HR but there is no such thing as a two-run "he looks like a power hitter and should fill out someday." The A's also lack a leadoff hitter, which ideally your CFer can be. Do you agree that the A's need a CFer, or are you satisfied that they have one?

Anyway, if there's a conclusion I draw from all this, I guess it would be that the A's actually still have a lot of work to do to make the transition from "rebuilding" to "contender." Maybe for the first time, Billy Beane agrees? And if more rebuilding in the A's future like it or not, how would you go about completing the process and solving these positions?

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Great SuSlu headline
“Crosby better, believes he can play”.

Maybe they should check his head.

[Note, this is unfair, since Crosby has surprisingly been one of the A’s better hitters this year. But I just couldn’t resist.]

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 16, 2009 2:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Crosby has had a few

productive games, but overall his hitting has been horrible.

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on May 16, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Horrible?

A’s leaders in OBP:

Cust .374
Crosby .373
Suzuki .370

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 17, 2009 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See? He's worse than the strickout king!!!11111

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this guy is rebuilding the A’s.

Prithee, be not perturbed by yon third bagger.

by Poppy on May 16, 2009 2:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL

That guy should’ve kept his old lady out of that room if he didn’t want to build it himself.

by SFBAsportsfan on May 16, 2009 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

here's my trade bait

One of sweeney/buck, maybe both. depending on the progress of doolittle/brown/cunningham/sulentic/spencer etc.
Patterson i still think he has some value. more as a 2nd/3rd piece in a deal.
Once they figure out their rotation, there will be a few pitcher that are talented but considered depth:
cahill/anderson – untouchable
 gio/gallagher – both disappointing.i think could be available depending on the deal. remember garza in a major deal for young. maybe use gio/gallagher similar as a centerpiece in a future trade
This next group battles it out, maybe the best pitchers win: braden/outman/mazzaro/simmons/fernandez/banwart etc
Add in the lousy eveland and reliever depth you might be able to put a decent offer for a solid up and coming ss/3b type.
Dont forget the 07 draft is progressing at a rapid pace, 7 of the first 8 picks at AA/AA level. We might see simmons/doolittle/brown/horton/demel/banwart/carignan in 2010 or so

by Asfan4ever723 on May 16, 2009 2:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem with your trade bait

is that it isn’t especially valuable. Nobody is going to give you anything of value for Buck, Sweeney, Gio, or Gallagher. You have to give something to get something.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 17, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wallace was

promoted to Triple A today. The A’s had the solution to this massive problem staring them in the face and they ended up taking a guy who can’t stay on the field. Wallace only needs to be slightly below average with the glove to make the A’s look like fools.

I don’t see an impact player from the 07 draft. They should get some solid major leaguers, but at some point the A’s need to produce a Giambi level hitter.

by DKNJ on May 16, 2009 2:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

BB has been totally blind at 3b.

EC hasn’t played well for 3-4 years and no one even close to stepping in! I’d be looking at trading Holliday, Duke when healthy, OCab and maybe a combo of 2nd tier prospects to fill in the left side of infield. Have to FIX those holes!

BB needs to take more risk in the draft. Our first picks in the first round since 2003 have been pretty weak! Don’t be afraid to take a chance on a HS player with tools, should he fail it wouldn’t be much different than the SAFE college guys he has been drafting 1st in the first round!

by calas on May 16, 2009 2:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

O/T Lackey thrown out of game

Threw behind Kinsler 1st pitch and then hit him next pitch

Laugh out fucking LOUD

by Trainman on May 16, 2009 2:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This is his first game off the DL, right?

That’s pretty hilarious. Was he arguing with the ump about it? What did Scioscia do?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on May 16, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He just put his arm out at the ump like WTF

Scioscia came out and went ballistic but did not get tossed.

I think Padilla should plunk a few just to get them really pissed off and start a brawl.

by Trainman on May 16, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Billy Beane has listened about 3 years too late

Better late than never.

We need to go into next season with someone who is good and if that means spending $$$ or trading away some pitching, it needs to be done. We can have all the pitching in the world and if you don’t score then it’s worthless.

Darfting someone is still going to leave a hole for a few years.

by Trainman on May 16, 2009 2:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Let this thing play out until June 30th...

If you’re out of the race, unload Holliday, Duchscherer, O-Cab, and Giambi for necessary parts (SS + 3B who will be ready for the 2010 Season). At that time, send Cahill and Anderson to AAA for July & August. Bring up MAC in September to finish the season, and get ready for 2010.

by Colorado Fan on May 16, 2009 3:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Why?

I don’t get why we’d send Cahill and Anderson to AAA at this point if they idea is just to develop them. I don’t really think either player has much to gain down there – they have had positive moments this year, and negative moments, much like you’d expect from rookies. I’d rather let them hang out with the main team and keep working through things than start ping-ponging them back and forth.

I’m not sure Giambi has any value, but obviously if we can get some good prospects for Duke and O-Cab, you do it. And Holliday? Well, lets hope there is a 3B prospect out there for a team that might want Holliday.

by SeanR on May 16, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Send them down to get an extra year of control on the contract....if they dont do that....

it will be completely stupid…a waste of an extra year of these two great pitchers in their prime for a year when they were so so, and the team wasnt going anywhere.

If they dont send these two down at some point i will be furious…i want them an extra year when they are good….NOT NOW

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on May 16, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

apparently Geren has listened to me

and is swithing Cust and Giambi in the lineup today. Cust bats third and Giambi moves down to fifth.

Buck is also in the lineup today, batting ninth.

by OaklandSi on May 16, 2009 3:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Future Positions

If we look at 2010 and what positions will be open and who could potentially fill then, well… lets see.

C1 Kurt Suzuki
1B
2B Mark Ellis
3B
SS
LF
RF
CF
DH Jack Cust

Thats a lot of holes in the lineup.

Now, Filling that with guys from the Minors who could be ready by 2010 (IE: Are at AA or Above this year).

C1 Kurt Suzuki
1B Chris Carter
2B Mark Ellis
3B Adrian Cardenas
SS
LF Aaron Cunningham
RF Sean Doolittle
CF Corey Brown
DH Jack Cust

This is a bit optimistic on several fronts. We are assuming that Chris Carter will be ready for 2010, though it looks more likely that he will spend 2010 in AAA. If Doolittle is ready for the Majors in 2010, then we can still have one of Buck or Sweeney play Right Field until someone better shows up. Or, we can go on the Free Agent market and try to get someone like Jason Bay. Too bad we didn’t reaquire Swisher in the off season.

Short Stop is still a big hole. Cabrera is proving that he’s lost his bat, and he isn’t all that great defensivly anymore. Crosby is still Crosby, and he will be gone. Adrian Cardenas could possibly play Shortstop if need be for a year or two, but that will also still leave us with a hole at Third Base.

In the Low Minors, we have three SS Prospects, though the A’s appear to have chosen what to do with a couple of them.

Nino Leyja is in Extended Spring Training, and the A’s appear to be waiting for Kane County to rise above COLD. Till then, Dustin Coleman and Jason Christian are there, both hitting well, with Coleman at Shortstop and Christian at Third Base. The A’s appear to have settled on those two positions, so we could see them rise like Anderson and Cahill, together to the Majors. The question is how quickly they rise.

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on May 16, 2009 3:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Problem is that even best case

that 2010 roster does not look good.

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on May 16, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is about what I was going to write.

And I think you’re being generous by saying Mark Ellis has an assured future with the A’s. He may be the second coming of Chavez in terms of health.

The especially scary part of this, to me, is the A’s abysmal track record with developing offensive talent in the Beane era; credit for Tejada, Giambi, and Chavez more properly belongs to the prior regime. How many of Carter, Cardenas, Doolittle, and Brown are going to flatline when they reach the majors, like so many of their predecessors? I’d like to think that at least Doolittle is a solid bet, but I could be wrong.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 17, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to post my own FanPost about this, and still might, but here are some initial thoughts:

3rd Base: As DKNJ mentions above, the A’s might have already acquired their 3rd baseman of the near-future if they just played the cards they were dealt and drafted Brett Wallace last year (who grew up an A’s fan, is a NorCal native, wanted to be an A and was as big of a “sure thing” hitting prospect as there was in the draft)…but no, Beane tricked himself into overvaluing “athleticism”, but that’s a gripe for another day…

At this point, the A’s can either trade for a decent/unwanted/overpriced veteran 3rd baseman, or really hope to draft a Zimmerman/Tulowitski/Longoria-type rapid-riser, since those types of hitters are just not available on the trade market.

I’ll go for the former, and I’d like to see the A’s trade Gio Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeney and maybe Henry Rodriguez or Santiago Casilla for Dan Uggla of the Marlins. Uggla is a butcher at 2nd, but I bet he’d be servicable at 3rd. He’s a righty bat that hits for power and gets on base, he also stays off the disabled list, is also under club control for two more seasons and with the penny pinching ways of the Marlins, could possibly be made available.

Shortstop
: I would love to grab JJ Hardy from the Brew crew, but i just don’t think he’s going to made available for anything less than the entire farm system (which would include at least one of Cahill/Anderson, which is just too big a price to pay for 1 guaranteed year of him). The Brewers seem built to win this year and next and I really think Hardy is a major cog in their system and a front-office favorite. I could see Beane make a major Furcal-esque free-agent play for him after 2010, but I don’t see him being able to grab him before then.

Instead, I think the A’s should turn back to the old standard Miguel Tejada. Despite his continuously-advancing age, Miggy is showing that he can still swing a pretty potent bat and he really hasn’t been all that terrible in the field the last few seasons (although I admit that in the small sample size this year, the metrics think he’s been awful). But I think that even with reduced range, Miggy can provide sure-handedness and some pop for the position for one more year. He likely won’t get offered arbitration this off-season lest he accepts and costs the Astros (or whatever team may trade for him) over $10 million. So he will likely be available without draft-pick considerations, and I could see him being lured back to the Bay for a 1-year + 1 year attainable option deal at like $6-8 mill per season, just to finish his career.

Center Field
: I think the A’s should really monitor the free agent market next season for a possible CF deal. One guy I know you particularly like Nico is Chone Figgins, and he can certainly fill both the CF and leadoff hitter hole for the next few seasons. The only problems I see with Figgins is that the Angels will surely offer him arbitration after this season, and if the A’s finish with a record better than 15 other teams in baseball, then it will likely cost the A’s their 1st round pick next season to sign him. If the A’s finish in the lower-half of the league in record, then it won’t cost a 1st rounder and I think the team should go after him, if he can be had for a reasonable deal (maybe like 2 years/$14 million).

If Figgins out-prices himself, gets a better offer, doesn’t want to be an A and/or the A’s just don’t want to forfeit a draft pick for him, then I could really only see the team try internal options next season. One out of the box idea would be to get Corey Brown up next year to take over center AND to leadoff. He’s raking in Midland right now, but still strikes out a lot and walks a lot, so he’s not a prototype leadoff hitter, but he can run and he’s a legit CFer.

If all goes according to plan, this is what I’d like to see next season as a “bridge team” to the 2011 team that will, in all hope and likelihood, be rid of Chavez and GEren:

Lineup:
CF – Figgins
LF – Cunningham
DH – Cust
3B – Uggla
C – Suzuki
1B – Doolittle
SS – Tejada
RF – Buck
2B – Ellis

Cardenas and Brown in AAA ready to call-up…

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on May 16, 2009 3:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That would be too much for me to give up for Uggla, especially when no one knows if he can even play a passable 3b. Considering that is comparable to what was given up for Holliday, more than Uggla should be coming back.

Hopefully Barton relearns to hit, and can be the 2010 1B, allowing Doolittle to take over in RF.

Tejada and Figgins – Old, overpriced players seem to be the exact opposite of what the A’s need.

by chri5 on May 16, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Figgins is neither old nor overpriced

I think he’s one of baseball’s best bargains, actually.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 16, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Suggested long ago

I made a post, probably two years ago (under a different account, which I’ve naturally forgotten), stating the A’s should get Figgins. Not many were with me and I was basically treated like an idiot by many for even suggesting. Hindsight…

Of course the Angels are unlikely to deal with us, but his speed and ability to play multiple positions would have done a lot of good around here. Furthermore I still believe the A’s need to keep the threat of base stealing real. The risks of getting caught stealing usually outweigh the benefits of a stolen base, but what is the value of giving a pitcher more to worry about? I’m no stats wizard but it would be interesting to see what batting / slugging percentages are when a runner is threatening to steal.

by Jernskogen on May 16, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Found it

http://www.athleticsnation.com/2006/12/8/01313/0860

Guess it was the same account. %*$! I’m getting old.

by Jernskogen on May 16, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He won’t be cheap next winter, and he will be 32 when he is available. That is old and expensive to me…

by chri5 on May 17, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweeny's Defense

UZR/150 – 11.9
FRAA – 0
RZR – .978 (4th amongst ML CFs)
Plays OOZ – 19 (About middle for ML CFs)

I’m really not seeing how you can describe Sweeny’s defense as poor. If anything it has been a positive, on which all the metrics (except Bpro’s crappy one) agree.

His hitting is another story though. He is mainly down due to a BABIP reduction, even though his LD% has stayed steady. He has hit for more power (HR/FB increase to 7.6%, but still about half of where it needs to be) but he is hitting less flyballs than last year (34%→25%). Couple this with more of those FBs being infield flies (5.5%→21.4%!), and it is easy to see why he has hit worse this year.

The question really comes down to how much you see his bat improving. I think his defense will be slightly above average for a few more years, I just don’t know if he is ever going to hit enough to warrant the playing time.

SS and 3B are the obvious problems, and need to be dealt with at the trade deadline if the A’s are out of the race.

by chri5 on May 16, 2009 3:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He plays deep and is poor at reading/getting to balls hit in front of him

He also lacks traditional “CF speed” to overcome mistakes.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 16, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But if the end result is positive, who cares how he achieves it?

by chri5 on May 16, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because it isn't.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 16, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well there you go. Great reason. Everyone bows before your knowledge.

by chri5 on May 17, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yet another post that makes me skeptical of the value of defensive metrics.

Why don’t they account for what I can see with my eyes, which is that he has average at best range, and often gets poor jumps on balls?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 17, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cunninham can't play center?

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on May 16, 2009 5:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

To finish rebuilding??

This team looks as if the job’s barely begun.

by jasonthea on May 16, 2009 6:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Those lineups above look depressing

At some point, in this era of the game we’re going to have to spend some bigger money to get this team respectable. Wolfie doesn’t seem to be interested in doing that so I’m afraid we will experiment with the same strategy as before – an over-the-hill vet here and there mixed in with a conga line of AA/AAA/AAAA “prospects”. We need a core and that will cost. I thought Holliday might endear himself enough to inspire Wolfe to sign him and that may still happen.

One option I still like at 3B is Atkins in Colorado who is slumping and seems out of favor there.

P.S. I agree on the poor 1st round picks – they’ve been first round but not first rate.

Baja been here

by bajablue on May 16, 2009 6:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What do you think about what the Red Sox are doing with Ortiz?

They are benching him for a series for slumping. Ortiz is an expensive guy to have on the bench. But, the Red Sox believe winning is more important than forcing a very expensive player who is struggling into the lineup. Although, it did take them until now to do it. SOUNDS JUST LIKE THE A’S. Our problem is our bats, right? BATS, Right? BATS——HITTING COACH….. We have some proven bats in our lineup…. season long slump… no way. We just need to get hot. I see Mark Ellis up there in those lineups….. where is his bat? Why aren’t people excited about seeing Adam Kennedy in the lineup? I think Mark Ellis is an excellent 2nd baseman, but, his bat has slowed to a crawl. I don’t see this Adam character competing with Mark for 2nd base. Do you want to win? We sucked last year. We suck this year. Why the loyalty? Didn’t they spend the offseason at the batting cages…. or perhaps, know any pitchers that wanted to practice against each other so they wouldn’t suck so bad at the beginning of the year. I guess not. But, every one of our position players right now has ability and major league career numbers. Screw bring up more rookies and making it worse. Make those struggling at the plate take mandatory batting practice with real pitching on their days off until they start hitting. If they don’t want to come, put them on the bench for 3 games. I bet when all is said and done they will thank you. No one wants to suck!!

by SFBAsportsfan on May 16, 2009 8:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The T-Long/Sweeney comparison is very apt.

Each were high draft choices out of high school (T-Long, first round pick; Sweeney, second round pick). Each had extensive and mediocre minor league careers (T-Long, .774 OPS in 2,800 ABs; Sweeney, .756 in 1,900 ABs). Each were promoted up the chain in spite of those numbers because “they looked good.”

Isn’t the definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 17, 2009 9:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

And yet I continue to watch every game...

Hmm…{asks the toaster if I’m crazy, is reassured when it replies, “compared to the dishwasher???”}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 17, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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