Geren = lack of leadership

by Arcman on May 13, 2009 8:31 AM PDT

When a team calls a meeting to discuss lack of agressiveness without the manager shows how little respect they have for their manager. Cabrera and the hitters did the meeting without the batting coach and Geren. Which makes you ask do they not respect him or do they feel he is not the one to go to for advice. I have never felt Geren is a leader quality manager. He is more a let things run the course guy. That is fine for a vetran winning team but not for a young team. Hopefully Beane will not make the A's endure another year of Geren as manager.

Tweet Comment 53 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

players-only meetings happen all the time...

not to say that you’re wrong about his perceived lack of leadership though, that could be a fact

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on May 13, 2009 8:35 AM PDT reply actions

I'm no fan of Geren's but...

I think you’re overplaying this point. I’d rather have a team do this themselves than have it come from a manager yelling at them, because eventually the latter gets tuned out.

I’d say that Stan Von Gundy= lack of leadership. At least we don’t have Giambi openly questioning the manager’s moves. He did come a bit close with the comment about the ejection though, didn’t he??

by jasonthea on May 13, 2009 8:35 AM PDT reply actions

i missed that comment

got a link perhaps?

by stranahanahan on May 13, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions

No I forget where it was

But it was the day Geren got ejected protecting Holliday from same fate. Giambi said, in effect, “a manager’s got to do that”, which some interpreted as him meaning “about time Geren showed some fire”, which may or may not be a stretch.

by jasonthea on May 13, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions

others just took his comment at face value

it was pretty clear that Geren did what he did to prevent Holliday from getting tossed.

by OaklandSi on May 13, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions

Exactly

Most people took it on face value. Only people with their own agenda read something else into it.

by DeJay on May 14, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions

You're missing the point.

It was a PLAYERS ONLY meeting. Coaches aren’t invited for a reason.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 13, 2009 8:49 AM PDT reply actions

I'm not sure you understand the concept of players-only meetings

Further, it was also a hitters-only meeting.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on May 13, 2009 8:54 AM PDT reply actions

last time they had 1?

I can’t remember the last time the A’s had a player only meeting. Of course you do know that they can not complain to the media about Geren because of Beane’s friendship with Geren. Which ask the question would they bring their concerns to Beane.

by Arcman on May 13, 2009 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions

+1

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 13, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions

so the hitters don't respect the pitchers?

"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
-Wayne Gretzky"
-Michael Scott

by scatterbrian on May 13, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions

This is a non issue

See above commentors.

Now, you want to talk about fundamental leadership breakdowns, Skaalen’s comments about how major league hitters already know how to hit and they work out their problems on their own…now THAT is a troubling philosophy for our hitting coach. His hands off approach is not what this team needs. Someone, preferably a respected former major league hitter, needs to take the reigns and provide instruction. Did Holliday and Crosby not go to Big Mac in the off-season? They did not try to work things out on their own. All our good coaches went on to manage the teams kicking our ass in the standings.

concocting something witty....check back frequently

by OptimistPrime on May 13, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

good points

by OaklandSi on May 13, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions

I agree with this. Great points.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on May 13, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions

Holiday

He did start hitting better when he went back to his old batting stance. Big Mac’s hitting stance was the cause for his early slump. He couldn’t drive the ball like Mac did because lack of upper body strength.

by Arcman on May 13, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions

I wondered that as well

do you know when he switched back?

by stranahanahan on May 13, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions

not sure

but Ray fosse made the comment last week after holiday started hitting the homeruns. Fosse was talking about how Holiday went back to the leg kick that he had back in Colorado. Watch him next time and you will see him raising the leg.

by Arcman on May 13, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions

The Holliday Leg Kick

Yes, I agree, he is back to his regular power with the leg kick. I find it interesting/disturbing that Skaalen has said in an interview that he has tried to get Holliday to “quiet” his leg kick. That is his timing mechanism. When the hell did Mac become a hitting guru anyway? Isn’t it widely known that his power came from juicing? Oh, sorry, we are not here to discuss the past are we :)

concocting something witty....check back frequently

by OptimistPrime on May 13, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions

Holliday's leg kick appears to vary from day to day

based on my observations in the past week. (I’ve been to almost all the games in this homestand.) He also seems to swing the bat back just before swining at a pitch (which looks a bit like what Crosby does). If this is the case it would seem that his swing may be a bit longer than it should be.

by OaklandSi on May 13, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions

his swing does seem to be getting bigger

I wasn’t surprised when they had to go and check him out the other day (was that yesterday, i believe?). Some of his swings recently look like he’s just trying to murder the ball, and it makes me wonder what the hell is going on there.

by stranahanahan on May 15, 2009 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, I agree with its a non-issue.

Although Cust batting 5th while Holliday and Giambi are struggling dearly is an issue, if not incredibly annoying.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on May 13, 2009 9:15 AM PDT reply actions

Eh, it seems to be paying off lately.

Can’t bitch too much about a GS and a three run shot. Cust is doing what he does best right where he’s at.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 13, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions

I wonder if putting him in 5th is trying to get 3rd and 4th some protection,

hoping that they’ll get better pitches.

by LoneStranger on May 13, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions

I dunno....

But it’s nice to think that there is in fact a plan and that it’s working. Maybe we’re being to hard on the Bob.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 13, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions

I know the collective 'we' is being too hard on Bob.

But that’s what happens when the team is doing poorly. Everything related to the team takes its turn on the wrong end of the firing range.

by LoneStranger on May 13, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, you're probably right.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on May 13, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Geren = BBeane's best man!!!!

Fail…

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 13, 2009 10:23 AM PDT reply actions

Exactly

Even though Geren did play in the majors and im sure he has plenty of baseball knowledge, the reason he is the manager of the A’s is a case of who you know more then what he knows.

by pbra17 on May 13, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Just imagine......

Where do you think we’d be if Beane hired Ron Washington before we let him leave instead of Geren? I think we definitely would have some better spirited players, and definitely better infield coaching. He was a master at coaching our guys at fielding and we’d prob have less errors. As far as hitting goes, I know he supports his players through motivation, and that could do a hell of a lot on our club. The A’s need to have a fire lit under them, and Geren is just okay with the status quo. Get rid of him now!

"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!

by rickey939 on May 13, 2009 2:34 PM PDT reply actions

Yeah, I hoped at the time that we would hire Wash

When you have a monetarily-imposed ceiling on talent like we do, you need a manager who can push buttons effectively. Granted, Wash has more hitting talent in Texas than Geren does in Oakland, but Wash always seemed like a better motivator than Geren did or does. I can’t imagine any player giving Geren their Gold Glove like Chavez did to Wash. My impression of Geren is that he plays by the numbers while taken emotion largely out of the equation (as does Beane). So it makes him a good fit with Beane but not necessarily the team we have.

In Geren’s defense, he doesn’t seem to berate young players or make them lose their confidence. It’s not like he’s going around backstabbing players; he doesn’t blame losses on them. If we had a guy like Wash still on the staff to help lift players up we might not be so critical of Geren. But in baseball it’s easier to fire the managers than it is to bring in new players so I wouldn’t cry if Geren got fired—assuming we got someone that I thought could do the job better.

My question for the fire Geren brigade is, who are we going to replace him with?

by worldblee on May 13, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions

For starters, let's look at the other candidates

who were considered when Geren was hired:

Ron Washington = manager, Texas Rangers
Trey Hillman = manager, Kansas City Royals
Bud Black = manager, San Diego Padres
Don Wakamatsu = manager, Seattle Mariners
Manny Acta = manager, Washington Nationals
Jamie Quirk = scout, Cincinnati Reds = available?
Orel Hershiser = analyst, ESPN = available?

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 13, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions

For what it's worth,

I’d be up for rolling the dice on Jamie Quirk. I mean, I don’t know much about him, but what the hell. It’s worth a try.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 13, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions

Rickey

"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
-Wayne Gretzky"
-Michael Scott

by scatterbrian on May 13, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions

You know what's fascinating about this list

5 managers. They have collectively managed 1301 major league games, or the equivalent of 8 big league seasons. Not one has yet made a postseason. They all have losing records (yes, even Waikamatsu as the M’s quickly returned to earth) and a collective W/L % of .453 Geren’s W/L % is .463.

Listen, I’m not saying that one or more of these guys might not have been a better choice. I am saying there is yet no empirical evidence that they would have been a better choice. Daddy Wash has the best record at 173-184— but that is still barely better than Geren.

by jasonthea on May 14, 2009 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions

The thing about Wash...

is that he is able to make a connection with the fans. I suppose that why he’s so appealing to AN. That and the fact that players seem to love the guy. I think that Wash would make much more effective use of our roster as it’s currently constructed.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 14, 2009 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions

Let's look at who was let go!

Not who was considered! Organisational butcher show!

by SquawValleyUSA on May 14, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Bobby Valentine!!!!!!!

"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!

by rickey939 on May 13, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions

I am really good freinds

with Ty Van Burkleo’s son. He tells me that almost every player on the roster cannot stand Geren. He told me that the only reason why he is still around is because he is Beane’s puppet.

by Holy Toledo! on May 13, 2009 3:12 PM PDT reply actions

That would be very interesting if it were verifiable.

Unfortunately, to all of us reading about it here on AN it’s just fourth-hand hearsay.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 13, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

not to mention having an ax to grind

by jasonthea on May 13, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I'm really good friends

With the Cookie Monster and he says he can’t stand Geren because he’s always trying to steal his chocolate chip cookies.

by sirbed on May 13, 2009 4:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

If you guys don't believe me

just go to Maxpreps.com, type in Bear River High School CA, click on this years baseball season, and click on the roster. His name is Cam, and he didn’t play much this year because he has problems in his back. You don’t have to believe me, I was just saying what I know from talking to him about it. And my profile picture is me. I am the second baseman for the team, and he plays SS.

by Holy Toledo! on May 13, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, but it's still fourth hand.

1. Maybe Ty got the wrong impression from the players, hearing what he wants to hear.
2. Maybe Ty’s son exaggerated it, passing on distorted information based on small snippets he heard from his Dad.
3. Maybe you, as an A’s fan frustrated with Geren, heard what you wanted to hear from Ty’s son.
4. Maybe, when passing on the news to us, you’re exaggerating for the sake of effect.

It’s like a game of telephone, and that’s a lot of connections. And that’s not even counting the possibility that any one of you might be just making up complete bullshit.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on May 14, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I hope you're making this up.

Because if you’re not, you just burned a friend.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 14, 2009 5:53 AM PDT up reply actions

Holy Toledo-- you are young

And you are probably going to learn a hard lesson. When word gets around that Van Burkleo and/or his family is saying this about Geren- whether true or not-it won’t help his future in baseball. And then your friend may not be your friend any more. Hope it doesn’t work out that way, but this is simply not the way to deal with friends and priviliged information.

by jasonthea on May 14, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions

don't worry about it

Any time I post a trade rumor I read about in the papers I get the you made it up and where is the link comments. Some people here just want to disprove everything. Unfortunately for you there is no way to prove it without a signed confession form Ty himself which will not happen.

by Arcman on May 14, 2009 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions

Well, baseball has a lot of rumors that end up being false.

If you’re going to tell people that there is a rumor, the first step in proving it’s not your BS is to post a link to the place that you read it. Even if you can post a link, it doesn’t prove that it isn’t someone else’s BS. The respectability and track record of the place you are linking to makes a difference in what people will believe.

It’s not that they want to disprove what you are saying, it’s that there are so many rumors that don’t come true, we need something concrete to grab onto or it just comes off as someone’s rosterbation. (No pun intended)

by LoneStranger on May 14, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions

So little is mentioned about Geren in the media

a few quotes here and there, but not much other than that. They probably do not want to irritate Beane. Think about it, no one touches Geren with any criticism, but there are no glowing reports either. After two losing seasons and maybe a third on the way, you would think some folks in the newspapers would start pushing his buttons. He is like so off-limits that it is strange. I could buy Holy Toledo’s reasoning. It would explain why the players never say a damn thing bad or good about Geren.

by pedoman on May 14, 2009 1:07 PM PDT reply actions

Macha and players

Same with macha a few players didn’t like him. From what I have read not much has come out on their dislike of Geren other than a player being sent down rumbling about it. With giambi and nomar on the team the players has more voice about the situation. Giambi wouldn’t be afraid to go to Beane on it.

by Arcman on May 14, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions