Eveland Coughs Up 5-Run Lead, A's Eventually Lose Game
by baseballgirl on May 1, 2009 10:33 PM PDT
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PrintIt’s a tough pill to swallow when all your starting pitcher needed was a league-average start to cruise home to an easy win, and he couldn’t even manage that. The A’s offense staked Dana Eveland to a 6-1 lead, and it should have been more than enough to win the game, but as you can see from the final score, it wasn’t. Holliday, Suzuki and Crosby provided the early runs (Suzuki and Crosby with nifty, multiple-RBI hits that would go for naught).
Dana Eveland was terrible from the get-go tonight; loading the bases with no one out in the first, but got out of it only allowing a sac fly. Sometimes pitchers will settle down after the initial rocky inning, but that never really happened; it just got worse from there. The Mariners scored one in the first, two in the third, and four in the fifth, as Eveland couldn’t make it through five innings; he turned a 6-1 A’s win into a 7-6 A’s deficit in record time.
Holliday (!!!!!) tied up the game in the seventh with his second homerun; a second-deck bomb, but the A’s have not been good at converting the late tie games into wins so far this early season.
The A’s had a golden chance to score in the in the eighth after a beautiful lead-off double by Suzuki, but Geren had Travis Buck bunt. I’m not completely opposed to the play in general, but the problem is that judging from Buck’s bunting stance, he is not good at it; he should have been swinging. He popped up the bunt, and no one was surprised.
Dan Giese relieved Eveland and did a nifty job; retiring all ten men he saw, but Russ Springer came in to pitch the ninth. In the controversial call of the day, with men on first and third, Geren had Springer walk the bases loaded to face Jose Lopez--leaving him no room for error--and after an epic at-bat, Lopez dumped in the game-winning single.
A lot of wasted side notes in the game tonight; Suzuki continues his hot streak, Crosby with a bases-clearing triple, Sweeney with another great catch, and great bullpen work by Giese.
These games are maddening to lose. Lack of execution; lack of quality starting pitching from someone who really doesn’t have the excuse of a Cahill/Anderson, questionable management, the rest of the AL losing, and a chance to make up some ground. It’s a tough loss, and there isn’t much that makes it better.
We do it again tomorrow night, Cahill vs. Washburn, 6:05.
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losses like this one piss me off
like the second game in the Mariners’ sweep of the A’s back in the coliseum.They bug me because they coulda, shoulda been wins.
Happily, tomorrow is another game.
Something needs to be done about Eveland
He’s throwing nothing but crap up there. But you can only blame him for so many runs. I mean it was obvious after the first 2 run bomb that he definitely should have been taken out. But noooo, Geren pulls a Macha and leaves him in until he gives up 7.
I find it hard to believe that neither Gio nor Gallagher can do better. And when I say “better” I mean 6 innings, 4 earned runs.
"Stanford has no fear of losing versus Cal, as they have done so every year but one for the last 20 years. They are, however, very afraid to get injured and indeed fear for their safety." - Furd Rugby Coach on forfeiting 2001 Rugby game vs. Cal
If you look at my "pitching analysis" post,
I talk about how (IMO) the A’s should be moving towards a rotation of Braden, Anderson, Cahill, Gio, and Gallagher, with Eveland in long relief and Outman in the pen.
In that scenario, you have the capacity to use Outman tonight, you have a long reliever in the pen, and you don’t keep pretending that Dana Eveland has what it takes to be in a rotation – which I just don’t think he does, regardless of his tRA or any other combination of letters.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Eveland had a lot of LONG outs too
not like they should have been surprised that some went a bit farther.
The thing about Eveland is that he'll have some "bad luck,"
like Ichiro’s hit to start the game, and then follow it with two walks. Or he’ll be unable to field a bad bunt, or he’ll hang an 0-2 pitch, in an inning that also features a “tough luck” soft hit. He does so many things badly that any bad luck gets magnified. His 4-run inning in New York was a perfect example. It was capped off by a broken bat single (Teixeira) but started with a leadoff walk (Swisher). You can focus on either, but in totality he’s a bad pitcher because guys constantly reach base against him. Constantly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He lacks the mental makeup to be a ML pitcher
along with an out pitch and has no velocity.
You forgot command. He lacks that big time too.
Otherwise he’s pretty mediocre.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Except Braden and I'd say Anderson,
who has pitched better than his overall stats. Braden’s been excellent and Anderson’s been better than mediocre. The rest? Bleah.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
agree
with both Anderson and Cahill I was expecting some unevenness and a learning curve. After all neither had pitched above AA (Anderson had a cup of coffee with Sacramento during the playoffs).
Before the season started I had thought of Eveland being a #5 type pitcher, with Braden being a #5 type. I’ve been pleased with Braden’s performance and disappointed with Eveland. Also, I’ve been disappointed that for whatever reason Gallagher was not ready to begin the season in the starting rotation. I also thought that Gio might or might not be ready….and I was expecting Outman to be in the bullpen.
During the offseason I was really hoping that the A’s could swing a trade for a decent middle of the rotation starter. I was uneasy with depending on Duchscherer because of his injury history.
Braden vs Anderson
Not that I want to get all statsy on you or anything, because I’m not into that, but I’m curious about this, Nico.
You emphasize that Anderson has pitched better than his overall stats, but isn’t it equally true that Braden has pitched worse that his overall stats?
I don’t watch the pitchers nearly as closely as you and some others here on AN do, but judging just from your past discussions of Braden, it seems that you acknowledge he doesn’t always make good pitches and he often gets himself into trouble, but you feel he has “knows how to pitch” sort of talent that lets him make the most of what he has and get the job done.
OK, so far. I’m agnostic on whether this is true, but I understand how it could be.
What I want to know is why the same reasoning doesn’t tell you that Anderson lacks those Bradenesque talents and that’s why he pitches well but somehow doesn’t manage to get the job done? Sure, he keeps his cool and looks composed, but to whatever extent it’s true that a pitcher can control his “luck” and get results when it counts — to get results in spite of his stats, as it were — Anderson has failed to do that so far.
Why do you judge Braden and Anderson differently? (Or am I completely misreading the situation here?)
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Here's my take on each - maybe this will help clarify?
Braden may have gotten “lucky” at times, but his outcome has been great so maybe with calibration for luck he has “only” really been “very good.” He has still been very good. And what I see with Braden is that in situations where a hit will hurt him more than a walk will, he is more likely to throw a 3-1 changeup or to “corner pitch” – meaning a better chance of a walk but less chance of a hit – whereas he doesn’t issue a lot of leadoff walks, etc. because in situations where walks are more harmful he’ll throw strikes early, get ahead, and so on. That’s “pitching” instead of “throwing.”
With Anderson, what I mean by him “pitching better than his stats” is that he has actually pitched well most of the time, but one bad inning (in which he also happened to be rather strikingly unlucky) and one bad start have inflated his overall stats to look bad when he has actually thrown well most of the time.
Kind of like if a hitter batted .300 for a month and then played in an epic 40 inning game with a migraine and went 0 for 20 that day. His overall average might be .270 but you’d say he’s really more like a .300 hitter in the long run.
And since Anderson is 21, I expect the occasional bump in the road – such as the start in New York – and I’m more impressed by how well he threw against Boston, against Texas, the rest of the start against Seattle and see it as more indicative of what we can expect going forward…with the occasional New York bump in the road, of course.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And he's funny lookin'
That’s the kicker, right there.
I switched Cabreras when your back was turned!
Well, I know one thing
His tRA isn’t better than Braden’s now.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Just curious
What makes you so contemptuous of tRA, Nico?
by Graham MacAree on May 2, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Assuming that's not a rhetorical question,
Nico isn’t contemptuous of tRA per se. It’s just that because of a certain discussion (which I think you must be familiar with) tRA came to symbolize a certain approach toward evaluating pitchers. It’s an unfortunate symbol, because it makes it look like he’s singling out tRA as a bad stat, which I’m pretty sure he isn’t.
He does believe, however, that there are real and significant skills that a pitcher can have or lack which cannot be measured by tallying all his pitches according to their pure result when the pitcher-hitter encounter is resolved and then applying globally determined run values to them, regardless of how well crafted the formula. That’s probably a point on which you and he have genuine philosophical/scientific disagreement.
I don’t speak for Nico, of course, but that’s my impression as one who has read him a lot and knows him a bit.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Before their last two starts
Eveland’s tRA was better than Braden’s. Somebody brought it up and it sparked another Well the statistics don’t lie versus ARE YOU BLIND/STUPID argument.
Then, Braden pitched very well against Texas and Eveland sucked a big one against the M’s and tRA became a sort of whipping boy in the age-old Statistics vs. Observation contest.
Well, to be fair the first use of it was to say Eveland has been the A's best starter this season
Now a few days later it says Eveland’s been their third-best starter, or perhaps is predicted to be with the way the numbers are now.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
I'm not even sure if my beef is with tRA
I’m guessing that if you told the inventor of tRA that you were using it to decide which of two pitchers had fared better after 4 starts, he or she would say, “Oh God no, please don’t do that!”
My problem was with people hanging onto a stat over observation, other stats, and common sense, when the stat in question isn’t even designed to be accurate over such a small sample.
Folks are surprised when Eveland pitches badly? He’s never actually pitched all that well – including last season when he was relatively lucky in the first half of the season, surviving a ton of baserunners and a ton of hard-hit balls hit right at people, and then by August couldn’t even stay in a rotation for a team that had traded off its two best starting pitchers and was in free-fall.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
One of the whole points of Moneyball is that
Observation is often misleading, as well as some statistics that are outdated. Common sense in baseball is a very difficult thing for me to comprehend.
if we send eveland down to sacramento,
it’s not clear to me who we bring up. gio gonazalez still has issues throwing strikes (per his last start). gallagher may not be stretched out and he’s walked two guys in the first two innings tonight. mazzaro might be the best choice but he got rocked yesterday in colorado (i suppose it being 32 degrees at game time affected him).
I don't think I have ever seen someone have so many base runners per inning
than this guy.
You could bring up a dead corpse and it would pitch more effectively
Those are the worst kind of corpses
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If you keep them refrigerated
then it’s not so bad from what I hear.
True - crunchy, at least,
and quite tasty with catsup.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I am a corpse snob
In that I could never have anything other than Heinz 57 ketchup with the newly dead.
Gimme Steam!! - P Gabriel
What bothered me...
… was the crap fielding from Patterson and Eveland. Every ball that got to Patterson was an adventure and every ball that went to Eveland went past Eveland.
I understand the need to get Patterson out there to see if he does have a major league stroke or if he’s an AAAA hitter, but this was painful. I’d give him maybe two more games, then I’d move Crosby over to second and let Hannahan play third.
the bigger issue to me with patterson is...
his hitting. flyball outs? really? he should be dinking and dunking balls, trying to put the ball on the ground and beat them out. flyballs can’t be his game.
As I said in the game threads, Patterson will kill the A's at 2B
He looks so uncomfortable even on routine balls and he has a terrible arm too. Cahill, Anderson, Eveland – these are ground ball pitchers. An infield of Crosby, Patterson, Giambi is going to be a disaster. I was half-praying that Lopez DIDN’T hit a ground ball because unless it was to Cabrera…?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah, he was pretty bad too
there was only so much I could bitch about in the game thread.
The lack of execution was disgusting last night.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on May 1, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Put Petit in there
sure is a much better defender and has to be a better hitter
He won't be a better hitter, but he won't really be a worse one
because suck is suck. Basically, both will mostly get out. Petit will play plus defense while Patterson will play minus defense. Go for defense if you’re not going to get much from the bat anyway.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes
Improving the defense sure would help
Would be nice to have a SP who can get outs as well
How about not failing sacrifice bunts 50% of the time
a bunt is marginal at best if you do it 100% of the time, but the A’s seem to screw them up at least half the time.
More than that
We’ve been talking about Petit for so long — this is his chance. We might as well give him a real chance to see what he can do. He showed some positive signs last year, that he was at least no worse than anyone else defensively.
Roy Steele is the voice of God
by cuppingmaster on May 1, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
You don't really wish that, Joey.
I know it. You know it. Hell, everyone knows it. Go to bed. Don’t come back until your head is right.
Talk to you tomorrow.
I'm here to talk about the past.
You're right
I’m retiring to my boudoir with a snifter of Johnnie Walker Red for a quality brooding session.
See you gametime tomorrow.
I just remembered I love Eric Chavez.
how bartender-ish of you, 67M.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 1, 2009 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I know
but none of us will ever quit them.
We know it’s going to get better but it sure pisses me off with games like tonight.
I get too angry though as you might have noticed. I vent a little too much. I am going to try and control that but……………………………
We have a moron for a manager and garbage and I mean pure garbage that should not be on the team. We are fans, but we can see this while management goes merrily along continuing to put said product on field resulting in inevitable fail.
It does not take a rocket scientist to see how bad some of these players are.
By the way, even using Branyan's strength and Lopez' weakness:
Branyan’s career BA against RHP: .237 (worse than against LHP)
Lopez’ career OBP against RHP: .298 (worse than against LHP)
That’s how bad a decision it was.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Meaning, in case it's not clear, that by
avoiding Branyan against the type of pitcher he likes and by pitching to Lopez against the type of pitcher he hates, the A’s significantly decreased their chances of not losing by walking Branyan.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That was clear? :-P
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on May 1, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
If you like quadruple negatives, it was
Or at least if you don’t fail not to dislike them.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OK let me be more clear yet:
Bob Geren sucks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I wonder if anyone has informed Geren as to how much he sucks
And will someone call Robert Buan and ask him to tell him (LOL)
That's harsh
In-game decisions are really hard, and most managers fail at something. I remember complaining full time about Macha and Howe, and even Billy Martin had his flaws (like destroying pitchers’ arms).
What bothers me about the past two years - and maybe it’s the loss of Ron Washington and nothing else, but someone needs to take the blame - is how bad Geren’s teams are at the fundamentals. Nobody can bunt, pitchers don’t know how to field their positions, baserunners make too many dumb mistakes, the execution is generally very sloppy. That’s the fault of the manager. Bad work habits.
Geren worst fault
is watching pitchers implode and leaving them in. Tonight is a great case in point. After the first two run homer he gave up, he should have been gone.
See that I just don't agree with
Let’s say he had pulled Eveland after 4 innings. Giese goes the next 3 (and you should expect him to give up a run or two) and then what? Springer and Wuertz pitching a second day in a row and…?
Geren was dealt a TERRIBLE bullpen hand and if I were in his shoes I’d stay with my starter (whose pitch count was actually low) as long as I could in that situation. The fault lies with Eveland, and in some sense with the organization for choosing him – but options don’t yet abound, so whatever.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Quick thought
As I mentioned in the game thread, I didn’t entirely blame Geren for trying to milk as much out of Eveland as he could, given the state of the bullpen. I would have pulled him before the last home run, because by then it was clear Geren was just hoping he could get another out.
I also think he wanted Eveland to be eligible for the win, a maddening managerial tic.
I can’t blame Geren for having a really thin bullpen. It was a debatable decision. It ended up looking bad because Giese pitched so well.
I guess one reason I give Geren a pass on that
is that the one thing you can usually count on Eveland to do is keep the ball in the park. And a walk, or single, would have afforded Geren a chance to still make a move with the A’s in front.
My bottom line is that I don’t have confidence in Giese, especially going 3 innings, so I can understand choosing even Eveland over “well we have to go with Giese for 3 innings.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Another way to put it:
I don’t get too mad at the manager when he has no real great choices. When he walks a career .227 hitter, when he doesn’t have to, and puts his pitcher in an unnecessarily bad situation, I get a little testy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That was a bad decision
I like you thought that and wonder why before the game ended in the result that it did.
Agree
Branyan has been hitting well, and homered early in the game. But that didn’t matter in the ninth. A home run or single would be the same, and Branyan is less likely than Lopez to get either one.
I have a strong bias against walking the bases loaded in tie games. It puts too much pressure on the pitcher. It’s one thing if Manny Ramirez is up. But the tradeoff between facing Branyan and Lopez was a poor decision even without the bases-loaded factor.
It was an awful, almost inexplicable decision.
The bigger question is
how can they allow him to start another game at the ML level.
Clearly, he is not a good pitcher and never, ever has been.
If he starts another game in 5 days, I will have no respect for management whatsoever. But then why should they care anyway.
Geren's afraid to overuse his bullpen
It’s a lose-lose situation.
But with someone who could actually play second base, it’s possible Eveland would have thrown fewer pitches and he might’ve gotten further into the game without imploding.
It also would have helped him if
he had gotten better defense from his pitcher.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I don't know...
I can’t really remember the A’s being good at the fundamentals. The A’s beat the Red Sox in 2003 if baserunners (advised by Ron Washington) know how to run to home plate and touch it.
The A’s have always been lousy at situational hitting – moving the runner over, sacrifices of any kind. We noticed bunting less because, for a time, the A’s stopped doing it altogether.
Wow, x a million
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on May 1, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Jeremy Giambi!
Slide, you dork!
I wouldn’t blame Washington for that, or for Byrnes’ and Tejada’s one-play brain lock.
I blame society
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm not blaming Washington
I’m just pointing out that stupid baserunning and poor fundamentals happened back when he was on the staff, too.
I think this has a LOT of truth
What bothers me about the past two years – and maybe it’s the loss of Ron Washington and nothing else, but someone needs to take the blame – is how bad Geren’s teams are at the fundamentals. Nobody can bunt, pitchers don’t know how to field their positions, baserunners make too many dumb mistakes, the execution is generally very sloppy
Let’s not even go back and look at playoffs 2000-2003.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on May 1, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
fundamentals are harrrrd
Watching pitches and muttering is a lot easier!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Tough matchup tomorrow
Cahill vs. the buzzsaw now known as Jerrod Washburn. eeeesh.
Roy Steele is the voice of God
AAAAAHHHH - A LEFTY!!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Management conversation
Billy: " Hey Bob, don’t ya think it’s time we make some changes, check out the latest stats along with his career stats"
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6353
Bob: “He had a lot of bad luck, they couldn’t touch any of his warm up pitches all night, just the one’s he threw in the game”
Billy: “He doesn’t look like he’s ever missed a meal”
Bob: “I am positive, let me repeat positive, that he can do better”
Billy: “I agree, down in Single A ball and you can be his manager. Adios MF’er”
Interesting - Gallagher has walked two batters in two innings so far tonight,
which is not good, but he hasn’t allowed a hit and his first start was 3 hitless innings. So for whatever it’s worth, he’s now at 5 IP, 0 hits for Sacramento. I wonder what his fastball velocity is – anyone know?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I see they suspended that game
I guess he will have to start again in like 3 days because they need to stretch him out.
They really go to great lengths to stop Gallagher from pitching, don't they?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Watching for bad luck
The events of recent days, and the discussion of tRA, had me looking for examples of bad luck. I found one obvious one, the grounder to Patterson that he bobbled, ruining a likely double play.
Eveland’s strongest attribute as a pitcher has been his ability to keep the ball in the park. That, as I understand it, has helped him with tRA and FIP and all those other statistical metrics. This turned out to be his major failing tonight.
I have made it fairly clear that I am skeptical about the statistics as they were being argued the other night. That said, I am not as down on Eveland as everyone here. I have maintained that Eveland is a fifth starter. Unfortunately, the A’s have an entire rotation full of fifth starters, with the occasional exception of Braden (thus far). Nobody can go deep in the game, and now the bullpen options are very limited.
Yes, Eveland was terrible, but he was worse than usual. And the options under discussion (Gio, Gallagher) are question marks with dubious track records of their own. Even if they are better than expected, they might be needed to replace other starters, such as Outman or the rookies.
I just watched Springer pitching to Lopez
All 14 pitchers were either balls or hangers and I am shocked that pitches 4 thru 13 were not dispatched over the fence.
However, it should not have come to this so we cannot really blame him even though yesterday he should have been the losing pitcher but for Swooney saving his rear.
Quote of the night from Geren
“It’s disappointing,” Oakland manager Bob Geren said. “With the way we pitched, we should have won.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290501112
Excuse me while I throw up.
Maybe he meant to say
With the waywe[they] pitched, we should have won.
That would actually make sense.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
And
I keep wishing that we had Ron Washington managing instead of Bob Geren…I bet he could do more with the team than Geren has.
yes!
geren is a stooge and he shouldn’t be allowed to make any strategic decisions…
get this man a functional bench coach… not to whisper in Geren’s ear, but to decide the plays and pitching changes, so Geren can do what he does best, which is to be the counselor at summer camp who everyone likes…
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 2, 2009 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Setting aside the sarcasm, I think that’s actually a good idea. If Geren really must stay, let him keep his position but get a good numbers guy at his side and let that guy make the tactical decisions.
Who is our bench coach anyway? I’m drawing a blank. Not sure if that means he’s a nobody or if I’m just out of touch.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
A few things
1. Eveland pitched very poorly tonight. That said, the A’s don’t have much else. Gio has trouble throwing strikes, Josh Outman is Josh Outman, Gallagher wasn’t even able to lock down a rotation spot, let alone stay on the active roster. Who else is there? Enough with this “Take him out back and shoot him a thousand times.”
2. The Braden v. Eveland argument a couple days ago was—get this—a couple of days ago. Is anybody else sick and tired of these snarky, backhanded comments like, “Eveland gets unlucky sometimes but he’s really our best pitcher SNERK.” Seriously? Lookout Landing did a “Dead Memes 2009” post. If we had one, this should be on it. Enough is enough already.
3. To all the people saying FIRE GEREN NOW because he left Eveland in the game, I pose a question to you: Who the hell else was Geren going to go to? Bailey, Casilla and Ziegler were unavailable and Wuertz and Springer had been used yesterday. Oh yeah, Giese. It looks good now, but does anybody really think Giese comes in and shuts the M’s down? He’s freaking Dan Giese, give me a break. As far as I can tell, Geren wanted to get as much out of Eveland as he could and for good reason.
4. I try not to swear that much on here (in real life I let it fly) but how the fuck does ESPN leave Sweeney’s catch off their Top 10? I didn’t see all of it, but as far as I can tell, the only thing they showed was the last at-bat. A pretty good goddamn game was played in Seattle tonight. Has it seriously gotten to be that bad?
Edit: Josh Outman is in the rotation
So while the “Josh Outman is Josh Outman” statement in #1 is still technically true, it doesn’t much sense in that context.
In reverse order...
4. The A’s are not a high priority for ESPN.
3. Geren was in a spot in the fifth, and there’s obviously hindsight bias at work because Giese pitched very well. I just thought Eveland was done at the time of the last at-bat. That decison is debatable. The decision to walk Branyan and load the bases in the ninth is pretty hard to defend, though.
2. There were, in my view, too many snarky comments about Eveland in the game thread. I didn’t make any of them. But after a big long debate over Eveland, it’s only natural for people to watch him more closely in his next start. As someone who got caught up in the debate, and pummeled for all sorts of sins, I was watching more closely, at least to see how many of Eveland’s runs could be attributed to bad luck and poor defense.
1. Josh Outman is Josh Outman. It’s technically true. And you even have the data to back it up.
I want to see Eveland do well but this is not a step in the right direction for him
In fact, people can say it’s just one start but it’s a pretty major step back as far as I’m concerned. If you as a starter can’t hold a 6-1 lead, you’re in trouble. He was awful tonight.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
This, I think, is the best sentiment to have after a game like that
He was terrible, but he’s still a starter. It seems like there are some AN members that are actually rooting for Eveland to fail so they can prove that Braden has been/is/will be better than him.
I am rooting for the A's to win
whatever options Geren had, leaving Eveland in there to stink up the joint was not the right one. IMO he has to be one of the worst pitchers i have ever seeon on the A’s. 54 baserunners and that is conservative as I know he has hit one or two as well, is just plain awful.
He has no fastball, no control, no out pitch and no confidence. You cannott tell me that there is not someone in the minors who can perform better.
I could care less about the Braden argument. I didn’t start it and it has nothing to do with wanting him to fail. I want the team to win and when he pitches, the team has virtually no chance. If he stays in the rotation it is an indictment on management because I myself (IMO) would not allow him near any ballpark unless he was on the opposition.
I will vouch for the fact that
Trainman has been trashing Eveland since long before the infamous Braden-Eveland argument.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Thank You Iglew
I just don’t see how any intelligent person can look at Eveland’s basic career figures and think he is anything but well below ML standard. A career 5 plus ERA with 10,000,000 baserunners illustrates this I would think.
The name of the game is to win as many games as possible with the best possible players to do so. Starting Eveland is conceeding victory IMO.
Hitters are batting ,371 with 54 baserunners in 24.1 innings. Something is very wrong with this picture.
If they are going to continue to pitch him, of course I hope he works it out but that would be the equivalent of winning the lottery without buying a ticket IMO.
Just because you do it all the time doesn't mean it's right.
Stat-wise… I think you should throw out his first couple of seasons due to small sample size. His bad ERAs in his two 30 IP appearances with the Brewers in 05 and 06 were due to his BABIP being .364 and .432.
Last year, when his BABIP was completely reasonable, he had a decent year as an average pitcher. His BABIP this year is also ridiculously high—the walks are stupid.
Clearly, though, you don’t give a shit about BABIP and you think Eveland sucks. That’s your opinion, I’m definitely unable to sway your mind. I’d also like to point out that CGV’s 3 & 4 include “baiting users” and “relentless negativity.” If Eveland is doing terrible, you can say something about it—but don’t pollute game threads with hate. It gets old.
I also don't think you can blame Eveland solely for the loss tonight.
The A’s missed plenty of opportunities tonight. Buck’s ridiculous attempt at a bunt, Patterson’s pop out. Eveland was bad but the A’s definitely could have overcome his shortcomings tonight.
Yes, I agree
Buck should not have been bunting
yes, can we stop bunting already...
no more bunting unless:
A- we make the playoffs… (and then only in the 8th inning and after)
B- it’s someone who lays it down right 95% of the time and HAS CONTROL OVER WHERE THE BALL GOES…
Bunting isn’t supposed to be a random thing… A good bunter should be able to place the ball… deaden it or liven it accordingly… and beat it out for a base hit once in a while…
I think Geren needs to play a couple of thousand games of APBA and/or Stratomatic just to get it in his head what strategies work and which ones don’t…
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 2, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions
If ever there were a reverse FJM,
where witty old-school baseball jocks ridicule nerdy stat-heads for their ridiculous claims, they would surely have a field day with this idea — that if only Bob Geren had spent less time playing baseball and more time playing dorky board games about baseball, he’d understand the game better.
(This, of course, is purely hypothetical. As far as I know, there’s no such thing as a witty old-school baseball jock.)
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I would also like to point out that
This video of Sweeney’s catch tonight has Mike Sweeney tagged in it. ESPN hates us. MLB hates us.
This is just one of those days when everyone’s against you.
I'll let Mike have Ryan's catch,
if Endy will take Eric’s injuries.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Dana Eveland = Brett Tomko
Both have so much talent but are (were) too soft in the head to ever apply it.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
You gotta want it!
If I were Eveland, I would be thinking SADISTIC thoughts on that mound, and sailing an insanely wild one once over the backstop once in a while, just to keep those batters LOOSE out there…
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 2, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah thats really killing me.
I don’t know why but I cant get over that…The A’s are in a lot of trouble…If they don’t win the next two, something has to change
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
Bring up Gio.
He cant be any worse than Eveland.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
yeah, but he could be just as bad...
I only want him brought up after four or five straight quality starts… Get him on a roll…
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 2, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
In defense of the Branyan walk
1. And I’m still not for it, because of the very thing that transpired— i.e, Springer throwing meatballs up there because he couldn’t walk Lopez, but…
Has anyone checked out Springer’s platoon splits so far this year. He was— going into last night— something like 000 OPS allowed vs righties (0-24, I believe) and 1417 OPS vs lefties— 5 for 8. Of such small sample sizes are big league decisions made. I’m still not for the move, but at least I understand it. The Buck bunt was worse. The call on Geise vs. Eveland was still a close one— I guess I can live with it and blame Eveland’s incompetence yet that one more hitter essentially cost the A’s the game. But kudos to Giese for giving us a chance to win..
Gallagher in Sacto
Tonights game in Col was started in a light rain and they were hoping to get it in. Gallaghers velocity according to the sky sox announcers was mid-90’s and was attacking the zone. They also said he had a nasty hook going and that he was throwing all his pitches for strikes and keeping the hitters offbalance. I still don’t think you will see gallagher anytime soon as he’s still not stretched out yet and tonights game only lasted 2 inn.
last nite tell all
1. Can anyone on this team bunt when needed? Buck, Patterson??
2. Eveland needs sent back to AAA to work things out
3. Patterson is showing he is not a major leaguer with trying to hit homeruns every at bat and playing sloppy defense
4. Never walk the bases loaded in bottom of ninth. To much pressure iof throwing a good pitch.
5. Holiday and Crosby swining well
6. Dont bring up a reliever if your not going to use him
I think I got your answers...
1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes, unless there’s only 1 out
5. Crosby always swines well, but I don’t think Holliday is all that pig-like
6. Agreed, bring up a utility infielder instead
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 2, 2009 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Hats off
to Seattle. They played a great game. They knocked our pitcher around (as we did theirs). Instead of pointing fingers, you just got to give it up. That was an awesome game to watch. Eveland did ok the last time he pitched, unfortunately he had to stay in, as did Braden the other day, to try to get out of his own jam. Patterson looks like he needs a few more at-bats. GO A’S!!!
LOL
How can you be positive after that? In such good position to win and they blew it…Lost 4 straight to SEA, had a chance to pick up a game on everyone in the division…and blew it.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
Seattle has our number
just as we had theirs for years. We got beat.
by SFBAsportsfan on May 2, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
That was the first good loss
we’ve had since the first four games of the season. Since then, we’ve been stumbling through the season with a bunch of hurt guys on the bench. It’s good to see everyone is healthy out there, and not flipping a coin to see which hurt guy we’re going to play today.
by SFBAsportsfan on May 2, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
thoughts
we cant complain since this team has been competitive in almost every game, but these 1 run losses are brutal. winless vs mariners, 3 of them 1 run losses. lack of fundamentals, bad coaching, whatever…theyll regret losing these games later on. especially giving up big leads vs felix, knocking around silva/rowland smith, and finally last nights failure.
eveland is marginal w/ very little room for error, but his on field demeanor is what i find very annoying.
skaalen needs to fix patterson uppercut swing and his defense is horrible. i was willing to give him a free pass but AAA dominance does not always mean mlb success
for the heat holliday gets, giambi has been even worse. i dont care about veteran priority he’s not a #3 hitter.
you can tell
Giambi is hurt. He is not using his legs in his swing, at all.
entire team is hurt
Think about opening day ls 20% on the shelf with Casilla about to be added. Another year of injuries is killing this team. Last night would have been a win with a full team but injuries is killing us.
predictions on cahill
lets hope they take advantage of seattle aggressive hitting…washburn another lefty = bad for offense
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