Oakland City Attorney on Keeping the A's in Oakland
by tsand59 on Apr 29, 2009 10:10 AM PDT
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PrintFull disclosure, John Russo is a close friend, and former client of mine. His twin sons and my son are good friends. John is a big time A's and Mets fan, he is originally from Brooklyn NY.
Keeping the A's in Oakland
By City Attorney John Russo
Oakland A’s managing partner Lew Wolff is a talented and smart businessman.
But if Wolff thinks anybody is buying his sob story about why the A’s have to leave Oakland, he’s seriously underestimating the intelligence of the team’s fan base, the press and the people of this city.
Wolff has been telling reporters and anyone who will listen that the A’s have done everything possible to build a new ballpark and stay in Oakland. As Wolff put it in a recent press release, the team has “exhausted (its) time and resources over the years” with the city.
Claiming the A’s have made an exhaustive effort to stay in Oakland is like George W. Bush saying he did everything he could to stay out of Iraq – it’s not a “reality-based” statement.
Here is the truth: A’s owners and Major League Baseball have been plotting to abandon Oakland for at least 10 years. They have never been partners in the city’s efforts to build a new stadium and keep the franchise in Oakland.
Collusion between A’s owners and the league has been evident since 1999, after a settlement gave Oakland and Alameda County the right to force a sale of the team to different owners. A team of buyers committed to keeping the club in Oakland stepped up and a price was set. But, for the first time in anyone’s memory, Major League Baseball denied the transfer of a franchise to a qualified ownership group.
City leaders – former Mayor Jerry Brown and former City Manager Robert Bobb – even tried to attend a baseball owners meeting to present the plan to transfer ownership. But they were treated as presumptuous interlopers and denied the opportunity to pitch the plan. The Lords of Baseball made it clear that they do not see American cities as partners, but rather as ATMs that exist to provide them with ever greater amounts of taxpayer dollars.
A few years later, when Oakland hired HOK, the nation’s most respected stadium architects, to look at possible sites for a new ballpark, the A’s refused to provide any support for the firm’s search. The city brought together a commission of business and community leaders to work on options for a new stadium, and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on staff time and consultants. However, the team demonstrated no interest in the process or in the architect’s favored site – a spot in downtown Oakland, next to two BART stations, with enough land for the city and the team to build a dream ballpark. Instead of a new ballpark at the site, we now have condos.
It’s telling that Wolff’s only proposal to stay in Oakland depended on the city using eminent domain to take the property of about 100 blue-collar businesses in East Oakland. The proposal came in August 2005, just two months after a Supreme Court ruling – Kelo v. City of New London – that decidedly turned the public against the use of eminent domain for private development. Wolff is too smart to not know that his proposal was totally unrealistic.
Mayor Ron Dellums and other Oakland leaders have made it clear that the city is prepared to continue working on feasible options for a new ballpark.
Moving the A’s to San Jose – which is contractually Giants territory – would require a special deal with Wolff’s old fraternity brother, Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig. Such a deal would be a blatant example of collusion in baseball and would likely be tied up in court for years.
The idea that the A’s have made a real, exhaustive effort to stay is disingenuous at best. With some imagination and a real partnership among the city, the business community and the ball club, the A’s could build a new ballpark and remain the team of the people of the East Bay.
It shouldn’t take an act of congress to compel the Lords of Baseball to give Oakland a fair shot.
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Wow.
Just wow.
Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.
Also:
Game on, apparently. This is gonna get good!
Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.
Reality based?
Look, I would never argue that Lew Wolff wants to keep the A’s in Oakland. I think it is fairly obvious that he doesn’t… But this letter is particularly hypocritical in that it accuses Wolff of not being “reality based” and then ignores some inconvenient facts and completely misrepresents some others.
Some questions one should ask when reading this letter:
Why was Robert Bobb fired?
Why did Don Perata say “a ballpark doesn’t get done without the mayors support” and wasn’t he referring to Jerry Brown?
Why was the Coliseum remodeled for the Raiders while the A’s where loyal enough to have not left?
What does he know about the capitalization requirements of running an MLB team and how the Dolich group measured up?
I am not rooting for the A’s to leave Oakland. I am rooting for the A’s to stay in the Bay Area, and if that is in Oakland great. If that is in San Jose, great. If it is in Albany, or Crockett, or Burlingame, or Los Gatos, or etc. Great.
This letter does nothing to further the cause of keeping them in Oakland from where I sit. It actually might be more harmful than helpful.
I think it could be about as helpful as the one Dellums wrote
In other words, not very.
Wolff wants his side to look good.
Oakland wants its side to look good.
Both sides are still talking without talking to each other, blaming each other for the problems in the process when both sides are really at fault. Nothing was going to happen with Jerry Brown as mayor because he wasn’t interested in sports. Now we have Dellums in Oakland and he’s got bigger problems than whether or not the A’s are going to stay there.
This whole thing is a huge mess.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Actually
Wolff and Dellums met yesterday. Apparently the meeting had to be moved abruptly due to a fire drill (I am not joking).
Also, the MLB blue ribbon panel met with the City of Oakland a few weeks back as well. I take this letter to be a sign of how those meetings went.
Blue ribbon panel = show trial
The verdict is already in, they just pretend to come to the same conclusion based on the “facts”
by cityplANner on Apr 29, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't disagree
Considering that two of the three members backgrounds include working to get a South Bay stadium for the Giants and working a deal with the Orioles to move the Nats into the same Metro Region.
Anybody know what Bob Starkey (the third member of the panel) does or did that qualifies him for the committee?
This is like putting together a panel to save a condo
with four movers and 3 eviction lawyers…
“I am sorry we could not save your home but on the bright side you’re already packed”
serious as a fart in a spacesuit - spectr17
Q&A
If a plan to leave had come to fruition during or immediately after the Brown years, I would say your critiques would be more apt. Clearly the current administration is more friendly (how much so is difficult to discern without more cooperation from the team) to the idea of a new park in Oakland. I’m sympathetic to the idea that there really isn’t a good option in Oakland (operating under the assumption that additional surrounding developments would be necessary to make it work financially) — but if the City wants to work on it and see if they can come up with something, Wolffco should either step up and cooperate or admit what many of us assume, that they just want to leave Oakland, period.
Regarding your final sentence, proponents of keeping the A’s in Oakland really have nothing to lose. Stirring up the dust is really the only chance they have. With no real leverage (over the team, they may have a bit over MLB), embarrassing the team into cooperating may be their best option (and may very well be helpful in employing the previously mentioned leverage against MLB) …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
More apt?
He says in the letter that the move has been brewing since 1999 and then points to Jerry Brown as taking action to keep the team. Those questions are directly related to what the letter says. How can it be more apt?
And, there was a plan to leave during the Brown administration. The plan was to build a ballpark right where the 49ers want to build their new stadium. It went no where because the Santa Clara City Government got pissed at Steve Schott (go figure).
Seriously, this letter is really about posturing. I felt the same way when Dellums wrote his letter.
It looks to me like MLB called Mayor Dellums bluff by organizing a blue Ribbon Panel (charade or no).
I don't believe Jerry Brown was ever serious or even interested in helping keep the A's in Oakland
As I recall, that downtown site so many have pointed to as being the best for the A’s, he wanted to build housing on.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Agree that he wasn't all that interested, but...
…I don’t think he was necessarily against it either. Ambivalent, maybe.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Last week...
I had a chance to speak with Cari Beauchamp, who was Brown’s press secretary when he was governor. I mentioned the A’s situation to her, and she said that from her knowledge, Brown has absolutely no understanding of the value of a baseball team, or any sports team, to a community.
On the other hand, Robert Bobb does, and it wouldn’t surprise me that despite Brown’s ambivalence, he and Bobb did make an attempt to involve themselves with MLB, and that they were rebuffed. Wolff’s only action in terms of staying in Oakland was the attempt to grab land by eminent domain…and with Russo explaining that move clearly, it looks more like a ploy than a real attempt to stay in the city. Wolff’s decision to close off the third deck and his absolute comtempt for the current fans of the team says that he never had any interest in staying in Oakland.
This doesn’t excuse Don Perata and company from screwing up relations between the team and the City when the Raiders moved back, by the way. Nor Jerry Brown’s lack of interest either. But it sounds like Wolff and Selig are the villains here, and while I know little of Wolff beyond what we’ve seen in the past few years, Selig is still the used car salesman he’s always been. This man singlehandedly tried to ruin baseball in 1994 and thereafter. If Selig’s for it, it’s probably something that only benefits the pockets of his rich friends.
On this one, I support the Giants’ right to remain in San Jose. I hate the Giants normally but now - GO GIANTS!
Contempt?
I don’t get this contempt for fans thing. If tarping off the cheapest seats in the house is considered an affront to the fans, maybe they are right about the current fan base being weak. And as a member of that current fan base, I certainly haven’t felt slighted at all.
Well at least not about the tarps… I feel slighted each time I go to get a hot dog and the concourses are so packed I have to breathe in deep and hold in my gut to get past the lines and find a shorter one. And I feel slighted each time I look out at center field and see Mt. Davis and miss the old configuration. Which is why I want a new stadium to go watch games at.
I also don’t get the “Selig tried to kill baseball in 1994” thing. In 1994, I was completely with the owners. They wanted to create a salary cap and reign in the ridiculousness of baseball salaries. I felt that would be better for the game long term and the revenue sharing and parity we all have watched in the past decade wouldn’t be here had they not fought for it.
Contempt
Tarping off the third deck means that people who wanted to go to the sellouts could no longer go. It makes sense to close the third deck for most of the games, but the point of tarping them was solely to make the other seats more exclusive and therefore better able to be sold at higher prices. Sorry, that’s greed and that’s contempt.
In 1994, I understood both owners’ and players’ positions and probably would have had more sympathy for the owners if they weren’t as greedy as the players. It was a pox on BOTH their houses, not on one or the other. But Selig, as commissioner, could’ve made an effort to ensure that fans weren’t cheated of the season. As commissioner, it was in his power not to take sides but to find solutions. He didn’t give a shit, and we all lost. The revenue sharing and parity could’ve come without the strike, I think. It just would have taken some smarter and cooler heads on both sides, and a smart commissioner.
I don't see that as contempt
So we can agree to disagree. That is running a business.
1994 requires a lot of hypothetical looking back. The bottom line is that baseball has vastly improved from a revenue stand point under Selig’s leadership. I am not a huge Bud Selig fan and I would have preferred no 1994 strike. But he hasn’t ruined the game, and if he was hell bent on doing that it would have happened in the last two decades at some point. Instead the game has grown in popularity and revenue streams.
I really don't have a problem with tarping off the third deck
Chances are a majority of the people who wanted to go to the sellouts weren’t going to enough other games to justify keeping them open. The low attendance figures seem to support that. Sure, it’d be nice to be able to put in 50,000 people for a Giants, Yankees or Red Sox game but there’s such a low level of overall interest in everything else that I really can’t blame them.
It all goes back to the fans vs. the organization argument. It’s a chicken/egg scenario.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
It was a STRIKE
Not a lockout. It probably needed to be done, but not in the middle of the greatest season of my lifetime (36 years old now). For that, I will always say the players are most at fault.
I have no problems with the NHL having done the same thing, because it was done over a full season, not in the middle of a season.
Which is why the players chose the middle of the season...
…they calculated that public indignation over interrupting the season would be an additional weapon for their side.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
I can believe that about Brown.
He strikes me as the type who would be immensely knowledgeable on subjects he cares about, yet incredibly ignorant on subjects which he does not care about.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and question Wolff’s commitment to the fans. He’s making Schott/Hoffman look almost generous. Consider…
- The team has basically tanked since he took over. Coincidence?
- The payroll was cut so drastically last year. Why? Or, at least, why so much? I’m sorry, but as time goes by many of the more recent trades are starting to smell more like salary dumps. Teams like the Royals and Pirates always get good prospects in return, also. I guess the proof will be whether we ride those prospects to success or trade them for yet more and younger prospects also.
- Is it possible that he’s actively trying to sabotage the team in order to drive fans away so that he can use that as yet another excuse to move the team out of Oakland?
- I have believed for a long time that Selig has some kind of hard-on concerning Oakland and has wanted them out of the city for a long time. Conspiracy between the two of them, maybe?
- Think about it… what has Wolff really done more than Schott/Hoffman did? From my standpoint I’m scratching my head trying to think of something.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Ah yes, Point #4! The "Major League" hypothesis
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Apr 29, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Meant point #3. I did my math wrong
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Apr 29, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Just a theory, but...
…stranger things have happened.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
I hate to get all reactionary
1. Spent 80 million dollars a new stadium that didn’t happen. One thing he has done that Schott and Hoffman didn’t.
2. Owned the team when they won a playoff series. Another thing he did.
3. The payroll was cut last year because the team was going to suck anyway. Why not trade the higher priced guys and get long term replacements? Like when they dealt Kenny Rogers, or when they let Giambi leave and signed Hatteberg to back him up, or when they traded Mulder/Hudson and made the playoffs the next year… I’d buy the Royals/Pirates thing if the A’s hadn’t just built a team that went to playoffs 5 of 8 years.
I don't think he's trying to keep the team from winning
as much as he’s trying hard to make Oakland not work.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
You have a case with point #1 and maybe point #3
But not #2. The fact that the team won a single play-off series says nothing about Schott, Hoffman, Beane or Wolff. It’s the roll of the dice, and involves a total of the victory or loss of one or two games in any given playoff year. That may be the most ridiculous argument I’ve ever seen in favor of Wolff. He had nothing to do with it. Nothing.
Who spent $80m on a stadium that didn't happen?
(Keeping in mind, of course, that the land deal was an option to purchase that was never used. There’s no way that he spent even 1/20th of that amount on the various paperwork aspects of the attempt to this point …)
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I will find a source for that
If I remember correctly, it was 80 million 25 of which is unrecoverable.
re:
1. Yes, I would agree that Wolff has a more long-term interest in financial feasibility. Keep in mind also that Schott/Hoffman were mere self-described caretakers whose sole purpose in owning the team was to keep them in Oakland until a more solid ownership group could be found. In that respect, it could also be argued that they did more as they never sought to leave town, either. At least to this point.
2. As you’ve already conceded, this was weak. It was the players, not the owners, who won or lost any post-season series.
3a. 4 of those 5 playoff appearances were under the Schott/Hoffman regime. One 1 of 5 were under Wolff… and even that was partly set-up during the Schott/Hoffman era. Due to the current rebuilding, it’s now pretty much all on Wolff… success or failure, whatever the future may hold.
3b. As I qualified, time will tell if the A’s salary dump was a smart strategy for the future or the beginnings of just another Pirate/Royal-esque continuous rebuilding mode.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Not true
1. Schott presented a plan to move to Santa Clara.
2. Neener neeener
3. Agreed. Except Billy Beane seems to drive these decisions mor ethan either ownership group.
I don't recall any Schott Santa Clara thing, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
And while my thoughts are more idle thinking-out-loud type theories, I do wonder what Beane’s roll would be IF Wolff indeed were trying to sabotage the present for a future move. On the one hand I doubt he’d be complicit in such a thing, but at the same time ya never know.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Considering the context
The changes made to the roster (Haren trade, etc) were during a time when the A’s had every reason to believe that they already were moving within their existing market. I would think they would have been using a different strategy, like the Padres used when they had a vote coming for their new stadium… spend big and win so people have a favorable view of your team and approve of the ballpark plan.
It makes no sense to pull a “major league” when you already have the stadium in process.
There is that.
I would be more receptive to that if the new stadium were in the same city. It was in the same “territory”, of course, but there’s something gnawing at me that says deep down they never all that hip on Fremont.
Then again, maybe it’s just my hindsight conspiracy theory mindset. haha
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Re:
- Is it possible that he’s actively trying to sabotage the team in order to drive fans away so that he can use that as yet another excuse to move the team out of Oakland?
This is known in baseball parlance as “the Loria strategem.” It works, too.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Maybe Dellums/Russo are just posturing ...
I wouldn’t argue they aren’t …
But if WolffCo aren’t willing to give them a chance, well it doesn’t really matter. They’ve never attempted to work with the current administration so its pretty much irrelevant how hard they think they tried with Jerry Brown.
I don’t think there’s any reason at all to believe that the Blue Ribbon Panel is intended to be anything but a rubber stamp on what they already intend to do.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
re: Raiders vs A's (and other stuff)
To be fair, the A’s had talked of moving before and since, so “loyalty” isn’t really the right word to use here as far as the A’s are concerned.
At the time I had read that the Dolich group was stretching itself financially.
I agree that this letter will probably do more harm than good.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Again, I believe I can sum up this with an image.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
What, I don't get it
What does this have to do with Chavvy?
[ducks]
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
He's the one lying down
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Oh, I got that part
I must say that I am surprised by Billy’s snappy duds, especially his high boot action. i didn’t realize he was such a sporting man!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Love John Russo
In a city where almost every politician minces their words to the point of it becoming verbal cream-of-wheat, Russo hits his points and hits them hard. My man crush only continues to grow.
Now, I know we’ll hash out all the inconvenient points he’s chosen to ignore, but for now I’m going to bask in his righteous anger. I know it’s all just grandstanding, but it’s so, well, grand.
Where was this guy...
the last decade?
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
He was working on it ...
but there’s only so much the City Attorney can do …
He has higher ambitions (he ran for Assembly and narrowly lost to Sandre Swanson — he probably wins if there was a runoff, both were in the 30s), which, IMHO is probably mostly what this is about.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Fuck Oakland!
I always hold my pen out of respect for some of the nice people on this blog, but when blatantly dishonest writings come from the city attorney’s desk, enough is enough…the fact is, Oakland is a shithole and it’s been a long time since either the city government or east bay fans have supported the team. As someone who doesn’t live in the bay anymore, and just wants the A’s to be where they have the best chance to succeed, the A’s can’t get away from Oakland fast enough. Oakland doesn’t deserve a damn thing.
by AgitationStation on Apr 29, 2009 11:10 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
wow
not sure why you would say east bay fans don’t support the team on a blog like this….nevermind everything else you said. maybe you should hold your pen a little longer next time
by chipper1001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm guessing it's because the attendance sucks ass.
To which the response will be “Yeah, but the ownership talks about how bad it is all the time so why should we go?”
To which the response is “You shouldn’t give a shit, if you support the team they wouldn’t be leaving.”
rinse, repeat.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
It hasn't always sucked ass.
In fact, it hasn’t sucked ass in the very recent future. It is entirely possible to have a baseball team in Oakland whose attendance doesn’t suck ass—and there are plenty of corporate dollars to go around in the Bay area, regardless of where the A’s land. It could be San Jose, but it doesn’t have to be.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Attendace
The A’s have been above average in attendance 8 times in 41 years. That is pretty telling.
The Giants haven't been any better.
I don’t think it’s because of Oakland specifically, any more than I think San Jose is some magic bullet.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
The Giants
The Giants have outdrawn the A’s record 2.9 million (set in 1990) for every season in this decade with the exception of last year where they drew 2.8 million. Their “attendance problem” has been fixed.
For now
It will be interesting to see where they end up this year—last year wasn’t a fluke. Regardless, there’s no reason the A’s attendance problem couldn’t be fixed in the same manner, in Oakland.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Agreed
They keep running out the crap teams they have, 2.5 million is about as much as they can expect.
But… the A’s drawing similar in Oakland is open for debate. Though I am 5 tickets they could count on in a new stadium, Oaktown or San Joser.
I think that overstates the case ...
The team has been at least 90% of average almost half of the time over the last two decades …
I’m not saying attendance isn’t bad … just that the first couple of decades in Oakland aren’t representative of what we can expect now …
In good years, the market will more or less bring average attendance … in bad years, something like 80% of average …
It ain’t good … but it could be a lot worse … the Royals haven’t been anywhere near average since 1991 and would kill for the A’s bad year attendance … Pittsburgh has been just as bad … and that’s despite a brand new stadium … There are other examples …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
IIRC it was 2002 when...
…the A’s were not only slightly above average in attendance, but outdrew the New York Mets. Not by much, but outdrew them nonetheless.
Reality was the A’s attendance was fine, but perception still held that their attendance sucked.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
in 2003
The A’s outdrew the Mets in total, but not in average. The root was because the Mets only had 77 home games.
How did that happen?
Did they have to play a series somewhere else?
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Ok, '03... I was off by a year, shoot me.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
But they actually didn't really outdraw them
The Mets had more fans per game but played 3 games in Japan (If I am remembering correctly). So if you factor in the three home games that went away the Mets would have outdrawn the A’s easily. Not that it matters though… one year of outdrawing the Mets (a year when the A’s were below the mid point in attendance) doesn’t really provide a good argument for attendance history in Oakland.
Dan. Johnson.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
You're missing the point by burying it in minutiae.
Minutiae? Is that the word I’m looking for? Anyway…
Granted, it was not a long term example, but point being that the proverbial ‘everybody’ was still harping on how crappy the A’s drew even at that time and that year when reality was that they were hanging around average and with such teams as the Mets, and weren’t nearly as bad as commonly thought… the point still stands that once common perception becomes universally accepted, convincing people otherwise is virtually impossible.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
the attendance says it for me
and has for quite a few years.
by AgitationStation on Apr 29, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus the corporate dollars are just not there in Oakland
I know we are discussing a team that plays a sport in front of fans, but it’s still a business for those who own the team.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Apr 29, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
It's still a business...
Yes and no. It is a business, and one would expect that it should make money. But it’s also a municipal enterprise and one which survives on the good will of people from the region. This isn’t like a used car dealership or a Best Buy, offering mere product. It’s trying to be something else, a community resource. A used car dealership or Best Buy wouldn’t expect a municipality to pony up millions of dollars in freebies because of what’s being given back, beyond real estate tax dollars. It’s both a business AND a public service. More is expected.
Again, it's a 2 way street.
There’s just flat out not enough people going to games.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
It's not a public service. It's just a business?
Then why are they even thinking about asking for any breaks from municipalities? Why do teams pride themselves on giving back to the community? It’s because the community supports them.
Also...
I don’t think we should continue this particular thread between the two of us because it will move into political areas that are beyond the purview of AN.
I don't mind if you don't
Your political views are okay by me, unless they require killing everyone who might not agree. Personally, I think in the context of stadium financing, politics is a bit hard to separate from the conversation.
The rest of us mind.
Thank you for keeping it from going political.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Not all of the rest of us.
I, for one, don’t really care.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
And I wouldn't really care if
one poster called another a “dumbass”, but the community guidelines forbid it.
I think there’s value in adhering to the established rules of the site, whether they are about issues I personally care about or not.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Impossible I would say.
Isn’t the city attorney’s opinion the subject of this post?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Yes and no.
City politics and local issues are unavoidable. The point is to avoid expanding it to any hot-button issue that will invite more generic political argument. If anyone is moved to mention Republican-vs-Democrat, whether taxes are too high or too low, rich-vs-poor, Obama, Bush, Fox News, socialists, Nazis, etc., then you know you’ve crossed the line.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
This is kind of naive
First, I completely hate that so many teams have had completely/mostly publicly funded stadiums.
But… Most big businesses receive similar treatment and have community outreach programs. A for instance:
Company A runs an online portal/search engine that attracts 300 million visitors a week. In order to support this website, they need to have very large data centers. Very large data centers draw immense amounts of power.
So Company A sends out an RFI to municipalities all over the country. These municipalities respond to the RFI and say “We have a plot of land and we will give it to you and exempt you from property taxes for 20 years if you create 30 jobs.”
Company A then responds with “Well, we can get free land an no property taxes from all kinds of places. What can you do about sales tax and utility rates?”
Some respond- We can waive sales taxes and we will guarantee cheap rates.
Company A goes back to those people and says "Well, so will about 17 other cities, what will you do to get the power lines to our building, it is going to cost us 2 million dollars.
3 cities respond- We will pay the 2 million! Create 30 jobs in my town please.
Papers are signed and data center is built. Meanwhile the company organizes an annual golf tournament and donates money to the local school district.
And the city ponied up more than San Francisco did for AT&T Park and got 30 jobs for the next 20 years.
There's a Difference
…between civic enterprises such as sports teams, opera companies, theater companies and the like, and a used car dealership, at least in my opinion. Next week, for example, the El Cerrito City Council will be taking up the issue of the El Cerrito Theater, a business that is having trouble paying its rent. Now if this were a car dealership, for example, nobody would or should care. But it is in fact a special theater, one for which there is civic pride. So finding a way out of the financial morass, if possible, could be seen as beneficial and as something beyond the simple ups and downs of a normal business.
That’s my point. I think baseball teams skirt that same edge between business and civil resource. Past that, we move into political realms that run the gamut from the communist manifesto to those who echo Gordon Gekko’s “Greed is Good,” without a trace of irony. And I don’t think we should explore those realms both because it’s against AN’s guidelines and because there’s really not point.
Why would the other MLB owners want to keep funding the A's via revenue sharing?
A move to San Jose would idealistically place the A’s in the profit-generating classification. Finding a site within Oakland would be excellent, but making it work considering the hurdles facing it (site acquisition, political will, funding, etc.), is difficult to imagine.
Being the frontman for the ownership group, one of Wolff’s priorities is to get a new stadium. And let’s face it, Wolff is getting older and I’m certain he wants to expedite the process as much as possible. However, waiting for Bobb to be elected to act as a catalyst is wishful thinking. Plus, again, we are dealing with a viability issue. Is baseball in Oakland a financially viable enterprise?
Even during pre-tarp years, the A’s were dependent upon large walkup crowds (how do you prepare personnel for such uncertainty?). Additionally, the team had difficulty selling out the Coliseum during playoff years.
These are all arguments that have been discussed before, so feel free to not read this message. I just want the A’s to get a new stadium anywhere in the Bay Area, Oakland or San Jose. Otherwise, how will we retain Michael Ynoa beyond his arbitration years playing in a decrepit Coliseum?
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Apr 29, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
If they're looking at it as a business ...
they shouldn’t complain when attendance (sales) drop when they put a crappy product on the field …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Sure, they complain ...
but we don’t care … it’s a business’ responsibility to sell their product, not ours to buy it … they complain, but then we all buy Toyotas/Hondas anyway …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
or when they put crappy food in the stands.
Yeah, I know, it’s Aarmark’s contract. But they could lean on them a little bit.
we all know
that the a’s have attendance problems. believe me, i wish we could draw more support than we do. but to say that oakland is a shithole and that east bay fans dont support the team on the main blog in which east bay fans DO support the team and don’t believe oakland is so bad is sort of asking for some angry responses. just a heads up
by chipper1001 on Apr 29, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree...
Hey, I'm Matt Holliday, I can hit the ball a ton above 5280 ft. Otherwise, I can't hit shit.
-1
Oakland is an amazing city. Problems? Yes. But that’s the real world, AS.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Apr 29, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don't know if Oakland is an amazing city,
but it sure has a lot of amazing restaurants…
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 29, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Very nice parks as well
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Apr 30, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Hoping to turn this one green.
People who call Oakland a shithole can (insert CGV here).
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Apr 29, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Oakland is a fine city
The Oakland Zoo, Chabot Space and Science Center, Rockridge, Fenton;‘s, Lake Merritt… Let’s not confuse the limited attendance at at sub standard stadium with some sort of evidence that an entire city is horrible.
I’d invite you to spend a day in Oakland, somewhere besides the Coliseum, at anyone of the places I mentioned above and then rethink your whole point.
lived in Oakland for two years...
ten years ago, between undergrad and grad school (and went to Berkeley for undergrad). Oakland has some very nice parts, which makes the condition of the rest of the city all the more a shame.
I do already regret the inflammatory rhetoric. That letter just pissed me off.
by AgitationStation on Apr 29, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Please never come back.
I’m so sorry your trick ass got mugged, or whatever it was that pissed you off so bad, but you need to get off your hi-horse. Better yet, just kill yourself. You too SwisherSweet.
I’ve lived here 24 of my 29 years. I have more pride in this city than you will have for anything in your life. I have season tickets and support the A’s more than you possibly can. So just to sum up. FUCK YOU.
by oaklandpride on Apr 29, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that was a little over the top.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Yeah, I guess I was a bit out of line
Go ahead. Flag it, delete it, whatever. I’m not much of a poster anyways.
It is very frustrating to hear people bash the city you live in. Especially when it is coming from what is supposed to be an A’s fan bretheren.
Look. I understand that there are more A’s fans outside of oakland than in, but that is no excuse for a post titled Fuck Oakland. Good, or bad it is my city and I love it. Of course there are shitty things going on in Oakland, but that is no excuse for some hillbilly that lived here for 2 years, 10 years ago to bash it so unmercifully.
by oaklandpride on Apr 29, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Good for you oaklandpride,
I agree with you 100%. Everything you said x2!
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
I'm not going to flag either, regardless of my temptation
“F&*% Oakland” and your post are both clear violations of the CGVs (there is nothing that isn’t personal about the former to many on this site). Let’s just agree that both the original post and the response are inappropriate, and move on. Unless someone already flagged them anyway (and yours probably was), in which case I hope the mods see fit to ding both of you.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I lived there for 22 of my nearly 28 ...
So I hope my credentials are adequate to say — not cool, not cool at all.
I love Oakland, I think it’s a fantastic city and I think most of the folks who hate on it are doing so because they are taking a simple/closed minded point of view …
That said, not cool, not cool at all. Very, very, very not cool.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
You probably would have been better off not saying anything
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Point Taken Flashfire
You won’t hear a peep out of me. Back to lurking.
I have to go rob someone, and smoke some crack anyway.
by oaklandpride on Apr 29, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand the pride
You can’t just go tell someone to kill himself because he says something you don’t like, though.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Oh..
you’re a REAL oakland resident then :X
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Apr 29, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel that
I don’t get how some folks think it’s ok to talk that way about the City. I know people got issues, but geez. I mean, folks should realize that when you talk about Oakland, in general terms, you are talking about people’s families. Communities.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Apr 30, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Fentons? I love Oakland as much as the next but for you to cite an ice cream parlor as
being a redeeming quality of the city says quite a bit about how good said city is.
I can’t stop laughing. Fentons Creamery? Tasty desert, but wow. I love it.
by 33SwisherSweet on Apr 29, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not much of a fan ...
the ice cream is good enough, but I’ve always found the service terribly lacking and the food to be quite poor … it really baffles me why it is so popular with some folks …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
The First Friday Art Murmur
Urban Capture the Flag, the Cardburg 500, the Lakeshore Farmer’s market, the Jingletown arts district, the plethora of new restaurants and bars openning downtown, the Fox, the Paramount, the Grand Lake Theater, Yoshi’s, the Institute of Mosaic Art, Children’s Fairyland, Oaklandish, Salsa by the Lake.
I put it on for my city.
Right on! I'd like to add...
Lake Merritt, The Art and Soul Festival, The Oakland Museum of California, Redwood Park (not technically in Oakland but damn close), Ratto’s Deli, Middle Harbor Shoreline Park, Kaiser Center Roof Garden, Oakland Rose Garden, The Trappist, Grand Lake Theater, Jack London Square, Taco Trucks on International Blvd.
People who dis Oakland should try some of these places.
La Pena Cultural Center and The Starry Plough on Shattuck
and hey, does anyone know whether Flint’s BBQ is still around?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Yeah, by a couple of blocks ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Redwood park is absolutely in Oakland
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Apr 30, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it might be right on the other side of the city limits in the hills
I think it’s under East Bay Regional Parks jurisdiction in unicorportated Alameda County. Jaoquin Miller Park is definitely witihin Oakland City Limits, however.
Yep
It’s surrounded by Oakland on 3 sides and it is EBRP.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Apr 30, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I have an unhealthy fascination with maps, if you couldn't tell.
by cityplANner on Apr 30, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
maps are wonderful
Could be a much more detrimental obsession. Are you really a planner? Do you work for any local metropolous?
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Apr 30, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions
planner in training
I’ll be attending USC this fall. Right now I do a lot of activism in Oakland’s planning circles. I occasionally write planning-based articles for abetteroakland.com
Also Sibley, which is a wonderful park, too
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Quite beautiful!
With room enough to get some impromptu baseball games together.
Take a chance, wob. Go out on a limb. Throw caution to the wind. Count my cliches. Something~67M
Linked via a previous post on Marine Layer's New Ballpark site
“The Dolich/Piccinini Group Not Have Enough Capital for A’s”
The article is culled together from numoerous news reports. If this claim is true, then you could only imagine the A’s payroll staying very modest.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
That's hardly evidence ...
MLB sort of used it as a behind the scenes excuse that could never be questioned or verified …
It may have been true, but that MLB claimed it to be true does not make it true, nor does it contradict Russo’s claims …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Isn't that Nico's dog?
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
LOL. Dolich.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This is posturing....
pure and simple. It would be far more productive if we could figure out the political goal behind the posturing. I see that the city attorney has brought up the subject of litigation without being specific as to who the actual litigants might be.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
The funny thing is
Article VI of the MLB constitution sets clear rules for grievances between MLB clubs. It prohibits clubs form suing one another and it makes the Commissioner the sole arbiter of such disputes.
Moving the A’s to San Jose – which is contractually Giants territory – would require a special deal with Wolff’s old fraternity brother, Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig. Such a deal would be a blatant example of collusion in baseball and would likely be tied up in court for years.
This is total BS. MLB gave the Giants the San Jose territory so that they could build a stadium when there was talk about them being sold and moved to Florida. They never built said stadium in San Jose. The Giants never gave anything to the A’s for that territory. Transfering this back to the A’s would not require a special deal with Bud Selig, it would require a three-fourths vote of club owners to do. And quite frankly, they would love to not have to write that check to the A’s Revenue Sharing fund every year. Also, no court would be involved. The Commisioner’s Office holds the final say in any disagreement between clubs and I don’t believe they are allowed to sue each other.
I agree with this
Getting the A’s the territorial rights is going to be easier than putting Nomar on the disabled list. I truly hope the city of Oakland doesn’t think it actually has traction. They need to operate under the assumption that the grant of rights to San Jose is a formality.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Hence the CA's vague reference
to litigation. He doesn’t even imply that the city would take MLB or the A’s to court. If pressed, I imagine he would state that he means nothing more than the usual environmental lawsuits when a large project is slated to be built.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
If Oakland wants to keep the A's
they need to devote every ounce of their energy to coming up with a kickass ballpark proposal, complete with site and funding plans. Everything else is just wasted energy.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Apr 29, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Best thing...
said in this entire thread. Rec’d!
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Apr 29, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
To do so they need time ...
ANY law suit, so long as it had enough merit to not get thrown out on spec would have the potential to harm MLB’s anti-trust exemption … which could provide MLB with the incentive to slow WolfCo down enough to allow time for such a proposal to come to fruition …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I'm sure they can come up with something ...
Leave that to the lawyers …
The idea wouldn’t be to win the lawsuit — just to make sure MLB had a lot more to lose by going to trial than by agreeing to give the city a legitimate chance at keeping the team if they dropped it.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Hasn't the Supreme Court
ruled on the exemption twice already in the last century? Frankly, I don’t think MLB would take the threat all that seriously.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
There have been two suits ...
In 1922, Federal Baseball Club of Baltimore, Inc. v. National Baseball Clubs — but the holdings of that case are wholly irrelevant to modern day Major League Baseball … it held that (perhaps reasonably) baseball did not represent interstate commerce, given that every single game was a unique event to its locality, without national revenue, media, etc …
In 1953, Toolson v. New York Yankees, Inc held that the Sherman Act was not intended to be applied to baseball, in regards to the reserve clause. This decision has since been heavily criticized and would be very much at risk of being overturned, were it not now moot.
But … in 1993, Piazza v MLB very much threatened to overturn MLB’s exemption, in regards to team location, after MLB blocked the sale of the Giants to Vince Piazza, before selling the team for less to Peter Magowan to keep it in SF. Before the case could fully play out, though, MLB paid Piazza off and they settled.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Didn't Flood make it all the way
to the Supreme Court? I know he lost, but I’m not sure what the final ruling entailed. I thought it upheld the exemption.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Oh yeah ... there was that one too ...
kind of a big deal …
of course they just took a stare decisis inspired pass on the issue, based on the 1922 case … as I insinuated above, I think there is more than adequate reason today to challenge that decision …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
The trick would be
To come up with a lawsuit that had merit. So far… I haven’t heard one that wouldn’t get tossed out three seconds after it was filed.
The only thing that sounds interesting is if the Giants sued the league, but that is prohibited by the MLB constitution (and all personal services agreements each team signs) and thus would also be tossed out upon filing.
The Giants are in a conundrum
with no way out. They can sue the league, without regard to the charter. But in so doing, they would be challenging the very exemption that allows MLB the right to deny SJ to the A’s. So in essence, even if they win, they still lose.
Kind of ironic, isn’t it?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I don't think they can
Sue that is. They have signed an agreement that makes the Commissioner the sole arbiter
The suit could challenge that provision ...
but then they’re in alox’ conundrum …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I'm curious..
where was all this commotion when the Fremont project was in place? Why now, when the move to San Jose is being kicked off?
Sorry, IMHO the Oakland shipped sailed a while back…whats going to change now from before (especially during this recession)?
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Apr 29, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
There was plenty of commotion ...
but I think the extra 20 miles does make it a bit worse for many …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
You have a point regarding the stalling tactic
but this is one that comes with a price. They need to be much more careful with how they try to delay. If they give Selig and Wolff too much of a kick in the ass, things could roll downhill very quickly, especially given the completed EIR in San Jose. I wouldn’t be suprised if territorial rights are a dead issue within three months.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
That would help, wouldn't it?
“We want the A’s to stay in Oakland!”
“Okay, what’s your proposal?”
“Um, er…”
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Apr 29, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Which leads back to my original point.
What’s the purpose of the letter? Is it intended to force the A’s to the table for legitimate negotiations? To put it bluntly, the city will have to offer up a sweetheart deal to entice the A’s to stay put. And therein lies the rub, I don’t think they have the political will to do so after the Raiders debacle. To me, this “to little to late” is nothing more than political cover. I think every city pol will breath a sigh of relief when the A’s back up the moving truck to the coli.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
+1
political posturing for Oakland resident mayoral votes….
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Apr 29, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Tomorrow's Headline Today: Russo announces candidacy for Mayor of Oakland.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
Good one.
Any realistic chance? I was guessing the pols were grandstanding lest they be viewed as responsible for the A’s departure by their constituents.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
He'd be a great mayor
but he’s got no shot now that Perata and maybe Robert Bobb are in the race.
Then again, I thought IDLF would have been a great mayor too.
I’ve said it before: John Russo’s pretty great. He’s like Spitzer without the hookers.
If Robert Bobb runs for mayor and wins
that would be a good thing. I think he’s the real deal, and I also think he’d really like to see the A’s stay in Oakland. It’s not just “talk” with him.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
OK a couple of points…..
First off I think the A’s would be better off in San Jose. I’ve been to A’s games and the stadium has looked empty for a long time. In fact I hate watching them on tv because it always looks like no one is there. (Well I do love watching the A’s on tv since I don’t live in the Bay anymore but you know what I mean.) I mean look at how SJ has supported the Sharks! Even when they sucked!
On Selig, I think he is a genious idiot. He comes across as stupid but you know he has somthing up his sleeve. He pretends to be stupid so well that you know he’s upto something. I don’t doubt Selig is doing everything in his power to move them out of Oakland. Hell he was talking about contracting the team! The A’s have been around for a hundred years and he wanted to disband them. Milwaukee lite sucked for so many years and don’t even have the history of the A’s and he wanted to disband US!!
Third, I don’t trust Beane. He understands baseball is a business first and foremost. I read Moneyball and to be honest he comes across as the kind of guy that your glad hes on your side but wouldn’t trust as far as you could throw him. I do think Beane would be a co-conspirator especially since he has a hand in the cookie jar.
I think the best way to keep the A’s in Oakland is to just show up and fill out the stadium. That way MLB can’t say the A’s aren’t being supported. The numbers don’t lie and I agree with the killing with kindness and thats the best weapon of choice I could think of.
by KingsAs49erSharks on May 2, 2009 1:09 PM PDT reply actions
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