Street back to his old tricks

by jasonlbe on Apr 16, 2009 11:19 AM PDT Comment 28 comments

I was checking out Buster olney's blog and one of his links leads to this story about Street being pulled from a game yesterday after he got into trouble.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_12152100

Looks like he is on a very short leash and may even lose his job as closer any day. It appears he is taking it a lot better this year than last year, after he pouted and complained so much last year.

Definately look like we pulled the plug on this guy at the right time. Thank god for that. For some reason this guy seems to have a very shaky psyche to me, anytime something goes wrong for him it takes him at least two weeks to right the ship. Maybe that is just my perspective, but I bet in about 3 weeks after having been removed from the closer spot he will start throwing the ball really well and declare that he is ready to close once again.

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I feel bad for street

I really thought we had something special when we drafted him five years ago, I hope he gets his head straight again

by Athletic on Apr 16, 2009 12:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Um... we did.

He was one of the best relievers in baseball for 3 years.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on Apr 16, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Then he pulled a barry zito...

in all honesty, i think he should be given a bit more of a chance. Even in his last year in oakland, his FIP was still 3.47. Let’s also not forget that he’s playing in Colorado, so it will probably take a little while for him to get adjusted. In light of that last point, I don’t think he should be the closer right now. Let him take his lumps in lower pressure/leverage situations first while giving someone else with more experience the chance to close out games.

If we had the chance to reacquire him for a bargain price, I’d do it in a heartbeat. I still think he is in the upper 20% of relievers in the league.

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Apr 16, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He went from absolutely dominant to pretty good

And it was almost assuredly because he was injured and hiding it.

Really, he gets hated on so much it’s annoying.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on Apr 16, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Agreed

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by Flashfire on Apr 16, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Apr 16, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is exactly right.

I’d be glad to have him back if we had the chance.

by whiteshoes40 on Apr 16, 2009 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

He was still a good reliever, just not a closer anymore.

His big problem was not being able to come to grips with that fact and be a good setup man.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Apr 16, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed 100%

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Apr 17, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Up to his old tricks?

When you indicated he’s not complaining/whining/whatever?

Almost all relief pitchers and closers go through difficult stretches.

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by Flashfire on Apr 16, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah

You’re the same guy that posted this last year.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Apr 16, 2009 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting you remembered that post

I still think he ducked that day. Now don’t get me wrong he was going through a very rough patch and I am sure we all would like to just take a day to get your thoughts together. But to me the guy has never really been all that reliable of a “closer.” Everyone wants to point out previous years when he was good, and point out how blown saves are an irrelevan stat. However, when you blow 11 saves one year and then consistently blow 7 or more a year, you have to start assuming he is now only an above average reliever and no longer either very good or good. In reality the only season that he was excellent or dominant was 2005, his ROY year. Too bad we didn’t end up with that guy, and too bad for the Rockies they didn’t either.

by jasonlbe on Apr 19, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if you need to kick a dude when he is down

But that said, I agree Street’s not all he was cracked up to be. Which sucks because I think he is a really cool guy.

Closers (and all players) do go through rough stretches, but to blow 7 saves in 25 opportunities last season, and 5 in 21 the year before is pretty dismal.

I think a save is a dumb stat like most everyone, but blown saves is not such a dumb stat. If you consider the reason a save is dumb is because it is really easy to accomplish then a blown save shows when someone had a not so tough task and still failed.

I hope he figures it out and makes himself a stud 8th inning guy at the least.

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by jeffro on Apr 16, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I have to really disagree with this as it is one of my pet peeves

The save may or may not be a dumb stat, but the “blown save” is by far and away the single dumbest stat in all of baseball. It took just a quick scanning of todays box scores to show why. In the Cubs/Cards game today Aaron Heilman came in to relieve Sean Marshall for the Cubs in the 6th with the Cubs up 4-3. Heilman pitched just the one inning, allowed a run to tie the game, and was credited with a “blown save”. Really? That is a blown save? Did they think he was going to pitch 4 innings? If not then how can he “blow” something he would have never been given the chance to achieve? The idea that you can “blow a save” in the middle innings completely invalidates a stat that is probably pretty useless anyway.

Looking at last year, Street “blew a save” by giving up a 7th inning run against Texas. Do you think that should count as a blown save? If you do, then why doesn’t he get credit for any scoreless 7th or 8th innings he threw last year to set up Ziggy? You just can’t have it both ways. You can’t penalize his save percentage for pitching bad in the 7th if you aren’t going to credit it for pitching well in the 7th. The entire stat as currently designed is just useless and nonsensical.

by AsFanInLA on Apr 16, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree to a point

He should probably get a “Blown Hold” but even then “Holds” are stupid. That doesn’t change the fact that Street is hardly the only guy who has been charged with a “Blown Save” for losing the elad in the 7th inning, but he has more “Blown Saves” than most pitchers.

Either way you slice it, pitching with the lead, was/is his job. He blew it more often than most relief pitchers. Have a better way to measure his effectiveness? The old inherited runners scored thing?

by jeffro on Apr 16, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And wins

The win stat is misleading too for a pitcher.

But saves, jeeze. Coming in up by three with nobody on base in the 9th and coming in it the 8th with the bases loaded, no outs, up by one. Both are ‘saves’ but one is actually more meaningful to complete.

by MobiusKlein on Apr 16, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No argument from me

Saves, wins, etc… they are not that great for predicting future performance or even infallible for measuring current success. Was it Russ Ortiz who won 20 games with a 5 ERA?

But would you disagree that Huston has had a problem for the past few years?

by jeffro on Apr 16, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yup.

I remember his rookie year. That was sweet.
Last year was just sweat.

Injuries seem to have done something. Surely overuse could have been a problem.

by MobiusKlein on Apr 16, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes there are many better ways to measure his effectiveness

ERA is not a great stat, but is better then save percentage. WHIP would be better as well. Other more advanced stats like ERA+, FIP, etc are even better, but really save percentage is designed in such a flawed way that it is of very little value — especially if you are not a 9th inning only pitcher.

by AsFanInLA on Apr 17, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty much, yeah

I mean, you get a blown save if you come into the 6th with the bases loaded, nobody out, up a run and you let even just one of them score.

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by Flashfire on Apr 17, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

Street was primarily a ninth inning pitcher. I agree Saves/holds/blown saves etc are really useless stats for the msot part… but when a guy like Street gets the majority of his chances in “true” save situations and blows the one run lead in the ninth, he failed no matter what his FIP is.

by jeffro on Apr 17, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I remember when the A’s signed Arthur Rhodes and there was some stat about him blowing like 60% of his save opps or so when in actuality very few of them were 9th inning situations. Obviously the Rhodes as closer move did not work though.

by bloodshot13 on Apr 16, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So isn't that an argument for Blown Saves as a good stat?

by jeffro on Apr 16, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not really

I’m assuming that just about any setup man will have a pretty poor save percentage over time. When you rarely have a chance to save a game and always have chance to blow a save you should have more blown saves than saves. The fact that Rhodes could not handle the closers job in Oakland does not mean he was not pitching well before when he had an awful save rate.

by bloodshot13 on Apr 17, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No it is not at all

Imagine if I decided to create a stat called “clutch factor”. I decided that anytime you came up with a runner in scoring position and made an out, it counted as an “0 for 1” against your clutch factor. However, if you came up with a runner in scoring position and got a hit it was ignored — unless that hit came in the 9th inning in which case you would get a “1 for 1”. Now lets say I had a guy that I only used to pinch hit in the 9th and he hit a robust .200 in that roll. His clutch factor would be .200 and would probably be better then Pujols’ (since Albert would have so many pre-9th inning oppurunities that would only hurt his clutch factor and never help it). That would make no sense whatsoever (obviously Pujols is better then a .200 hitting pinch hitter) and this is almost exactly what the “blown save” and “save percentage” stats do.

Just to give one final example. Remember how awesome Duke was as a reliever? Well over his career he has 14 saves and 8 blown saves for a much worse save percentage then Street. Does this mean that Duke actually was very bad as a reliever and would be even worse as a closer? I would guess not and would say that what it shows is yet another example of the ridiculousness of the “blown save” stat.

by AsFanInLA on Apr 17, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs