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Why the A's will NEVER be the Las Vegas A's

So, everytime someone posts that the A's should or will move to Las Vegas, I roll my eyes, because there are at least a hundred reasons why they shouldn't/won't. At the moment, I can only come up with fifteen, but as a public service to AN, I will list them here. Anytime someone brings it up, just point them to this post.

(Full disclosure: I am a lifelong fan of the A's. I grew up in Calaveras County, and my dad would buy A's tickets at a drug store in Lodi whenever we wanted to go. I have lived in Las Vegas, off and on, since 1989. It would be my dream come true if the A's moved to a brand-new ballpark here. It would also be a disaster, and here's why.)

Star-divide

1. The casino operators don't want it. They do not want their customers sitting in a ballpark for three hours not gambling. When broadway shows (Jersey Girls, The Lion King, etc.) play in Vegas, the casinos make them cut the shows down to 90 minutes or less so they aren't away from the blackjack tables for so long. If there was a baseball stadium on casino property, they'd make all the games five innings.

2. MLB would demand some sort of limitation (or ban) on betting on baseball. That is a non-starter, and will always be. Anybody who says otherwise, like Our Esteemed Mayor, is lying or doesn't work in a casino.

3. Half of the local work force works at night (swing shift) and wouldn't be able to attend most games (assuming they want to).

4. The recession has crippled the Las Vegas economy. We now lead the nation in unemployment and foreclosures. We're in worse shape than Detroit, and there's no bailout for casinos on the horizon.

5. Even when the recession ends, Las Vegas's place in the gaming world has changed. Nevada could always count on virtually all legitimate gambling to be conducted in our state. With the explosion of Native American casinos all across the country (especially in Southern California), this is no longer the case.

6. The biggest champion of the cause, Our Esteemed Mayor, has very little political influence. He is simply the guy that runs the City Council meetings, and the City does not include the Strip. Thus, he can't broker a land or building deal unless it's downtown (where there is little available space) or in the suburbs (hello, NIMBYs), and that's assuming he can get the rest of the city goverment to fall in line.

7. I'm no financial expert but I doubt banks are getting in line to finance projects in Las Vegas these days. The future of no less than five new Strip properties is in serious doubt because they are about to default on their construction loans.

8. If you're thinking about upgrading Cashman Field (home of the local AAA team, the 51s) on the cheap, forget it. Cashman is the Coliseum of the PCL. It's old, and it's facilities are hopelessly out of date. It's the primary reason the Dodgers did not renew their operating agreement with the 51s.

9. The footprint of Cashman Field is very small. If there are more than 7500 customers at the facility (it has a convention center and theater attached) the parking lots absolutely fill up.

10. The neighborhood surrounding Cashman field has apparently been forsaken by God.

11. The 51s have a sweetheart lease with the Las Vegas Convention & Visitors Authority (the owners of the facility) - - low rent, a huge portion of concessions - - and they still barely break even.

12. Because of the whole "comp" economic system in place here, the locals do not like to pay for tickets. This appears to be in conflict with the business of selling tickets to an event. When I was working for a minor-league hockey team here, we would have games with free ticket giveaways, in the hopes of enticing people to come back and pay their way, and the place would be packed to the rafters. But on regular nights, it was 20% full, or less. It was actually a burden to make the playoffs because that meant we would have to rent the Thomas & Mack Arena for another two nights and play playoff games in front of 1,800 people.

13. Las Vegas' sports history is littered with failed franchises. Currently there are two: the 51s and the Wranglers, a minor-league hockey team. Both operate with very good leases, very low salaries and very low expectations. They will be around as long as they don't fall into red ink, and not a minute longer. All the others, including Arena Football, are gone. And please don't mention the XFL; it breaks my heart to talk about it. Anyway, past is prologue.

14. The locals do not support teams that don't win a lot. Contrary to popular belief, the UNLV men's basketball team do not sell out every game. They had their first sellout since 1993 this past season against BYU - - and the stands were half full of BYU fans making the road trip. 1993, by the way, was exactly two years after the Rebs lost to Duke in the NCAA tournament. If a local baseball team had a down year or two like the A's had in '08, it would be years before they came out for anything besides Yankees and Red Sox games.

15. The A's already played here once, in 1996. They played six games. Opening Night was a sellout (9,336). For the other five games, there were plenty of tickets available.

Comment 36 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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Nods

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Mar 25, 2009 12:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Your Opening Day Oakland A's of 1996!

You have to enjoy Carlos Reyes (read as Dallas Braden of today) as your opening day starter and Ernie Young in centerfield.

I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.

by franks a lot on Mar 25, 2009 1:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Ernie Young

I still remember that triple play that he started in vegas. That was awesome.

More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis

by Athletics fan and runner on Mar 26, 2009 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yep ... listening to it on the radio is one of my all-time favorite A's memories ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 26, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

very thorough

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Mar 25, 2009 2:51 PM PDT reply actions  

thanks for the list

I have heard before that Las Vegas just wouldn’t work for baseball, but it’s good to see it all spelled out. Very convincing.

by colin on Mar 25, 2009 4:20 PM PDT reply actions  

It's too bad

The next time a national sportswriter tosses off a baseless rumor, he should refer to this list first.

by vertig0 on Mar 25, 2009 4:31 PM PDT reply actions  

Thank you

Coming from you, it means a lot. This site and yours are the only ones I read daily. Marine Layer, right?

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Mar 26, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, you're right ...

they are one and the same …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 26, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's right

Since you used to work in the field I have to ask: Do you know if the Orleans Arena does good business? That venue and Thomas & Mack have to be cannibalizing each other. I ask because I remember the Vegas AFL team being there, then they folded. The only other non-fight event I’ve heard that was there was this year’s WCC tourney.

by vertig0 on Mar 26, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Orleans

The Orleans arena does okay with mid-level concerts (Jeff Foxworthy in May), mixed martial-arts events, trade shows and other events. It’s seating capacity is around the 9,500 range, which makes it a nice mid-size alternative to the T&M, the MGM Grand Garden and Mandalay Event Center, which are in the 15,000 – 18,000 seat range. They’ve scheduled the Wranglers pretty smartly – - most of the home games are Friday and Saturday nights.

MGM and Mandalay get most of the big fights and concerts. Since both properties are now owned by the same company it’s not really much of a competition.

Little known fact: the T&M pays for their entire year on what they make on the National Finals Rodeo every year in December. Everything else – - Rebel games, concerts, whatever – - is pure profit. So the Running Rebels get kicked out of their own gym for three weeks every winter.

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Mar 26, 2009 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I forgot to add

That in addition to the WCC tournament, the Big West Conference is all but assured to move their basketball tournament to the Orleans next year or the year after.

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Mar 26, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great info

Thanks. I remember going to the WCC tourney when it was held at SCU’s Leavey Center a few years ago. The neutral-site tournaments have lost some of that college venue character.

At least it’s good to know that T&M pays for itself and then some.

by vertig0 on Mar 26, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is excellent. Thank you.

The artist formerly known as HigherPie.

by vegAN ryAN on Mar 25, 2009 5:44 PM PDT reply actions  

I guess the A's will just have to move to Portland then.

Although I could probably write an article on why it wouldn’t work here, but it sounds waaay more feasible than Vegas after reading this.

Great article, great info. Thanks.

by kidlondon on Mar 25, 2009 6:31 PM PDT reply actions  

Well done.

Can you work on Portland and Charlotte when you get a chance?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Mar 25, 2009 7:50 PM PDT reply actions  

Thank you

But I don’t know anything about Portland and Charlotte, though.

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Mar 26, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Las Vegas

And there is another reason, historic. It’s called “the Black Sox” scandal.

Gamblers got to the players of the White Sox and the result was baseball came very close to losing its credibility. It was both because of people not being sure the game wasn’t fixed, and that the owner of the White Sox tried to protect the value of his franchise by not dealing with the problem.

There was a very good book on this topic published several years ago. A read of the book should convince a lot of people that the probability of any major league baseball team being in Las Vegas is very very slim. Baseball just isn’t going to go near gambling.

RAC

by rcodd on Mar 25, 2009 8:12 PM PDT reply actions  

That's somewhat true

But I would humbly submit that gambling as a whole is not a deterrent; the Padres have Sycuan Casino ads plastered all over Petco Park. I think the A’s sold ballpark ads to Jackson Rancheria and Cache Creek too. There are now casinos everywhere; they couldn’t get away from it if they wanted to. How close is Foxwoods to Fenway Park?

I think it’s the betting on baseball specifically that makes MLB duck and cover, and there’s no way they’ll talk the casino operators into giving that up.

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Mar 26, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I definitely remember Cache Creek ads

during the A’s radio broadcasts. Nothing about baseball betting, of course, but they’re a sponsor.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers."

by iglew on Mar 27, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

but will they be the Las Vegas A's of Oakland?

great post btw

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Mar 25, 2009 9:29 PM PDT reply actions  

So

Numbers 1, 2, 4 and 7 are the most relevant as far as my line of thinking goes. Additional points:

16. Las Vegas is smaller than any existing Media Market in MLB. Local broadcast revenues are a significant portion of the pie for each MLB franchise.

17. The population of the region, while one time a growing boom burb, is still less than 2 million people, or about 30% of the Bay Area.

18. The state of Nevada is home to 10 Fortune 1000 companies while Las Vegas is home to seven. Five of those seven are gaming interests. See point 1 above.

There just ain’t no place outside of the Bay Area that makes the A’s a revenue sharing check writer.

myspace music

by jeffro on Mar 25, 2009 10:19 PM PDT reply actions  

+1

Or, plus 16, 17, and 18.

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Mar 26, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Part of what makes San Jose attractive...

…is that pretty much all the GOOD cities are already taken. Of the ones that may be doable, Las Vegas-Portland-Charlotte etc, all have some serious shortcoming.

I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup

by UncleLeo on Mar 26, 2009 12:16 AM PDT reply actions  

Good points all around

Now lets move the Blue Jays or Marlins to Charlotte so that the A’s could come and play either team making it closer/ easier to get to games.

Bad spellers of the world untie.

by A'sfaninNC on Mar 26, 2009 7:47 AM PDT reply actions  

Why MLB won't work in Charlotte

As a lifelong resident of this region- I can attest that it will be many years before MLB arrives in Charlotte. For the last two years, there has been a push to get the AAA team (the Knights), to move into the uptown area from the hinderlands- no go. There have been numerous excuses and roadblocks to moving this 10,000 seater into Charlotte, so there is no way there would be enough support for a Stadium that needs at least 35,000 seats. I would love to see it but it ain’t gonna happen. HOWEVER, just up the road a bit- well about three hours away actually is a little place called the Triangle Area (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) which would be ideal for baseball. There are a host of top notch colleges there to provide a great young fan base, lots of Corporate sponsorship dollars and a very successful AAA team (the Bulls). If any of the MLB teams wants to move anywhere in the South, that is the location, not Charlotte. As for the A’s, they need to stay in Oakland where they belong. Go A’s!

The greenmachine

by greenmachine on Mar 26, 2009 12:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Whew!

I feel better after reading that. Bay Area to Las Vegas would be a hell of a long drive for a night game. And day games would definitely be out of the question.

by guapobob on Mar 27, 2009 3:39 PM PDT reply actions  

In light of Portland's idiotic plan to bring MLS to town,

and relocate the AAA Portland Beavers to a brand new minor league baseball stadium downtown next to the Rose Garden, there is almost zero chance of an MLB team in Portland for at least ten years (prolly longer, because both MLS and the new minor league baseball stadium will lose money and no one, especially taxpayers, will want to take a chance on MLB).

by joshers on Mar 27, 2009 4:06 PM PDT reply actions  

It sounds like San Jose is the only place that actually wants the A's.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Mar 27, 2009 4:11 PM PDT reply actions  

in fairness

I think Oakland wants them too. They just don’t have much of a plan to keep them.

myspace music

by jeffro on Mar 27, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think West Sac would be eager to make a play, too ...

if there was any sort of chance … or so their mayor reminds me, far too often, via facebook …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 27, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

So then what do you think about Vegas' new UFL team?

Will it succeed and if it does, will that give people a backing to say a mlb would work also?

by Athletix Man on Mar 27, 2009 10:22 PM PDT reply actions  

UFL

The XFL team here got decent, but not great, attendance. (I was an STH, and was bitterly disappointed when the league shut down.)

I have serious doubts about the UFL ever actually playing games, much less the team, which, according to the rumor mill, will be shared with Los Angeles (half the home games in each city).

Even if, by some miracle, the UFL team prospers, I think everyone would recognize six or seven events easier to sell than 81+.

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Mar 28, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can't they just hollow out that roman arena Cher and Celine Dion kick it at?

Strap a couple slot machines, replace the racing dots with keno drawings, hand out SGAs along with call girl cards, use magic to make an elephant disappear and fill the stands with the scent of cigarettes, douchebags waiting in line for 54 and old ladies in hov-arounds, and I think we have a winner here!

Go Reno A’s!

What, no?

Back to the drawing board.

Play more Conan!

by oaklandSMASH on Mar 27, 2009 11:22 PM PDT reply actions  

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