Remember the Fallen Officers

…because I’m sure I just incited it.

PaulThomas still has his teeth.

I’m sure all you were looking for with that comment was constructive responses. That’s a completely normal expectation when you come into a thread about 4 LEO’s being killed in the line of duty and talk about how you object so strongly to cops being called “heroic”

Since we’re all knuckle draggers who can’t possibly hope to comprehend the staggering intellect of one such as yourself, why don’t you lay it out for us in plain terms: What the fuck was the point in your posting that?

So far, I’m not really feeling like I’m at the moral deficit.

And you never will. Because truthfully, Paul, unless you change who you are, you’ll never see your arrogance and tactlessness as flaws. Whether you think your philosophy is superior or not, you’ve got a whole society that disagrees. Go ahead, keep acting the way you do. But don’t act incredulous when people don’t sympathize with you.

Calling us out as thugs after what you said is possibly the most cowardly and twisted thing I’ve ever read from you. And I love that you, of all people, have the gall to play the moral authority.

It’s true that the act of putting on a uniform doesn’t make a police officer a hero. It’s the subsequent act of risking one’s life to protect others that does. Besides, since when did heroes have to be perfect?

should be kept to oneself.

I get your point, and partially agree with some of what you said, but I think I would rather let that one burn a hole in my pocket then take it out at a time like this.

I personally take offense to your statement on many different levels. It has nothing to do with grabbing a pitchfork and joining the rest of the crowd. My father was an Oakland Police Officer killed in the line of duty as well, and from personal experience I know the words that you chose and the timing and forum you chose to express them are closer to vitriol than they are to constructive argument. In your long rant, the first thing you mention is how nobody said anything constructive, and claim that your “argument” (which originally consisted of a claim with no evidence and a shaky warrant) was OK because it was “topical”. The topic was remembering and appreciating fallen officers, not a political debate over whether all police officers are heroes or not. If you had specific evidence that these four officers were corrupt, it would have been topical to bring it up. It was, however, not even remotely topical to bring up the general worth and value and integrity of police, as that was not the topic being discussed. I might be typing this rant without the language skill or organization of thought that you possess, but in debating pure logic and reasoning, your arguments of “topicality” and “mob mentality” fail.

Your argument was personally insulting because this is an Oakland community based forum at its heart, and the people of Oakland, including victims and families of fallen officers read this board. It is not a forum specifically for the political debate of the merits and integrity of Oakland Police. A few members decided to pay tribute to some heroes in Oakland, and you chose to question whether they, or any police officers are “automatically” heroes. Paul, we aren’t stupid— Every single one of us knows that there are many police officers that don’t uphold the highest standards of integrity. But seriously, you make the implication that the ratio of good cops to bad cops is about equal by saying “thousands are good” and “thousands are bad”, but seriously— Good or bad close to 100% of police officers put their lives on the line. Please go find me some evidence of the existence of thousands of bad cops before you just claim it with no evidence or no backing. I mean seriously, you just claim there are thousands of bad cops, and then take the moral high ground that we all grab pitchforks? You have no clue the level of police corruption, the percentage of bad cops, the daily life of a police officer, the daily life of and OAKLAND police offer.

When it comes to police officers being heroes, I think the social damage caused by presuming a police officer is a hero until proved otherwise is far less than the social damage caused by an idiot with no social clue writing things on an Oakland forum that for all you know could be read the families of the fallen officers.

Not one person— not one— bothered to respond in any constructive way.

You seriously don’t get it. Critiquing the language someone uses to memorialize the victims of a horrific tragedy is just a really, really shitty thing to do.

On your basic point, yes, I and most would agree with you. Not all police officers/fire fighters/soldiers/etc are heroes. I mean, no shit, really? Really? Do you think anyone really disagrees with that point? Are you so obsessed with winning an argument that you need to set up a truism on a subject that offends everyone else to much to argue with you?

If you think the logic of your argument is the least bit relative …

Well, I’m just going to leave you with a favorite line of mine — you don’t get to choose what other people are offended by. You have offended a lot of people with these comments. But I guess you won the argument, right?

I think the term ‘hero’ has been grossly overused in the last decade, to the point where CNN reguarly ran a ridiculous American Heroes segment that dealt with little paper boys who saved old men and similar nonsense. When everyone is a hero, no one is. The constant thrusting of ‘heroes’ in our faces by the media makes me wonder if they think we’re a nation of scared, whiny little children who need role models (maybe we are, honestly. I don’t know).

However, I have no problem with this term being used for these officers. Every traffic stop is a potential death sentence for cops and they willingly take on the responsibility to keep us safe from violent and sociopathic criminals such as Mixon. I think these guys were are heroes even if it’s a term that I usually view with extreme suspicion.

…agree. The responses were far, far worse than the original comment.

Statement: Critical but unpopular observation.
Response: Hate, insults, threats, etc….

but unfortunately it will only serve to reinforce some people’s already poor perception of the city. Even when crime is down, Oakland is fighting this reputation.

It seems to me like the two in the house did something wrong. Again, I’m not saying they deserved to die by any means. I hope people don’t take this out of context. But I always try to figure out what went wrong in these situations. I hope it can be a learning situation for police officers everywhere (on either what not to do, how to always be on guard, or whatever).

Are you supposed to approach a door head on like that? Is this just a totally fluke thing?

jeffro is saying that being a fallible, vulnerable human being who puts themselves on the line, despite their vulnerabilities and does the best they can in a difficult situation does …

Being a hero doesn’t mean being perfect, in fact it means being imperfect and still doing the best you can to make the world a better place.

While there is a superficial agreement in that jeffro’s opinion does allow for the fact that not every officer does the best they can and, thus, not every officer is a hero, the real substance of what they are saying is worlds apart.

Indymedia: Angry Oakland Police Kill African American Man in Haste; 4 Die, One Critical

However, rather than attempt a carefully planned, negotiated, non-violent ending, and angry over the shooting of the two traffic officers, a hasty Oakland Police Swat Team apparently rushed into the building armed with military rifles, assault weapons and other means of deadly force to use against Mr. Mixon. In the heat of the moment, there was allegedly an exchange of gunfire between Mr. Mixon and the Swat officers. It’s not clear yet whether Mr. Mixon fired in self-defense, but no information suggests that he was a threat while he remained there alone. In the exchange of gunfire, Mr. Mixon was killed. Three Swat officers were also shot, two of whom later died.

…

Many people are now wondering if the police were hasty, careless or reckless this time because they were angry that someone had shot two of their own. Questions have been raised as to whether their resolve to get revenge influenced what should have been an overriding concern for minimizing the risk of additional violence after one violent confrontation had already occurred.

What is clear, however, is that a young African American man from Oakland who was only a suspect was promptly killed rather than arrested. Although nothing yet suggests that the two motorcycle officers could have avoided their fate, Mr. Mixon’s death, and the deaths of the two Swat officers, might very well have been avoided if reasonable attempts to negotiate Mr. Mixon’s voluntary exit had been exhausted.

“What the heck is that?” the bartender asks, to which the pirate replies, “I don’t know, but it’s driving me nuts!”

Not relevant to anything; I just like the joke.

But I would feel bad about insulting you for just “not being able to get it”.