Rosterbation Situation - Moneypenny
The A's signing of Orlando Cabrera and continued interest in Nomar Garciaparra has lasting repercussions on the 25 man roster. The signing of Cabrera pushes Bobby Crosby out of the Starting Shortstop job, and into some murky waters.
Some might remember that when Miguel Tejada was leaving, there were questions about why the A's did not retain Tejada and play Bobby Crosby at Second Base. The answer was that scouts did not believe that Crosby had the arm angle to play 2nd. He couldn't do it. But now that Crosby has found himself either as a Backup Middle Infielder for the A's, or a Starting Shortstop for a team in even dire need of a Shortstop, we have to ask the question: CAN Bobby Crosby be a backup infielder for the A's, or can he only play Shortstop?
If the A's retain Crosby, that would push Cliff Pennington back to Triple A Sacramento for the few weeks that Crosby is still healthy once the season starts. Pennington does have a slight hope still to make the team opening day, however. If Crosby is dealt before opening day, then the roster slot will go to Pennington. Pennington can also make the roster as the Backup Third Baseman if he manages to out hit and out field the slew of Corner Infielders the A's have brought on board; Jack Hannahan, Jeff Baisley and Joe Dillion. But even in the unlikely event that Pennington can supersede those three, if the A's sign Nomar Garciaparra, Pennington's chances of making the team look bleak.
But, maybe not. As I eluded to above, what if Bobby Crosby does stay with the team, but can't play Second Base? What do the A's do then? After all, its unlikely that Garciappara can play Middle Infield. Mark Ellis is already recovering from Injury, and it would be foolish to go with out a backup for him. That puts Pennington back in the game.
If the A's retain Bobby Crosby, there are a few scenarios that I could see happening.
a) Bobby Crosby learns how to play 2nd Base and becomes the A's Backup Middle Infielder.
b) The A's sign Nomar Garciaparra, and go with a 5 Man Bench with Crosby backing up Shortstop and Pennington backing up the 2B, SS and 3B behind the grizzeled (read: injured) vets.
c) The A's do not sign Garciaparra, but retain Jack Hannahan on the 25 Man Roster, and have Hannahan back up 3B, 1B and 2B.
I think C will be awfully tempting for the A's in terms of versatility, but I do not like it to be honest. We have a complex situation in the infield with several old or injury prone starters. We can not afford to have one player back up 3 positions alone.
So what is the conclusion? Bobby, unless you learn how to play Second Base right now (and Third Base for good measure) and work on it through out Spring Training, you are going to find yourself off the team. And Cliff, if Bobby isn't playing Second in the next week or two, consider your roster spot secure.
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73 comments
Comments
Am I wrong....
…If the A’s carried Garciaparra, Pennington & Crosby as back-ups, along with a fifth outfielder, then there’s no room on the roster for Daric Barton.
by richwol1 on Mar 2, 2009 3:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There won't be any room for Barton anyways, most likely.
If the A’s carried a Backup Catcher, Garciaparra, Pennington, Crosby and an Outfielder, they’d have to sacrafice players in the Bullpen.
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by Zonis on Mar 2, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but there's another problem
Who plays 1B when Giambi can’t??
Hannahan can. Nomar Can.
But they need a middle-infield back=up, too, partic. given Ellis’ health.
so now with 12 pitchers:
2 catchers
Chavez
Cabrera
Ellis
giambi
Hannahan or Nomar
Back up Middle Infielder
Cust
Holliday
Buck
2 more outfielders or 1 outfielder/Barton
It still depends on health and ST performance— but Barton’s odds appear slim
by windyfelix on Mar 2, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CF
you don’t have a centerfielder in your list…
by Stew's Crew on Mar 2, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, Cunningham, obviously
And with backup, that makes 5 OFers since Cust does count as one. NoMar (A’s talking to him today) almost certainly seals Barton’s fate unless he greatly outperforms Buck or the latter gets hurt again.
by windyfelix on Mar 2, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my brain is not working
Cunn.. I mean Sweeney— I’m projecting forward a while. Sorry. I’d like to see Cunningham in mix before year is out, though.
by windyfelix on Mar 2, 2009 6:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much every position player - especially every infielder - should be able to play first
by thejd44 on Mar 2, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
With some practice, sure
Yes, all the infielders should be athletic enough to play there but its not something you come out of the womb knowing.
I don’t mean this as criticism, just as an addendum.
by SkipT on Mar 3, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But it's also not difficult to learn
With the exception of scooping poor throws, the rest of first base should really take about one day of practice to learn. There just isn’t that much to do, and what there is doesn’t take a lot of learning when you already can field a ground ball.
by thejd44 on Mar 3, 2009 1:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do they need both Pennington and Crosby?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 3, 2009 7:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is an option D
Crosby becomes the backup MI, but instead of BoCro going to 2b, Cabrera does when both OCab and BoCro play. Cabrera offered to play 2b to increase his marketability. He is probably the better fielder compared to Crosby but, hey, ARod’s playing off position, why can’t OCab?
I still like Nomar. He was my favorite of the old Holy Trinity of SS (although at the time I was busy trying to get my favorite player to be included in that discussion). He’s a great guy and he’ll come cheap. He can still hit lefties and may even be able to play a little 2b. Though even with my most rosy glasses on, I can’t see Garciaparra playing SS. Nomah and Bones leaves MoneyPenny and Hannahan at AAA. And without Pennington as a backup, that insures Davis as the backup OF as the token high speed guy.
Which leaves my bench:
Crosby
Nomar
Davis
Bowen/Powell
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Mar 2, 2009 4:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like the look of that bench a lot.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Mar 2, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
No one there should get any AB other than maybe Nomar.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 3, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera does have some pro 2B experience, unlike Crosby
also, since Ellis is coming back from surgery he’s unlikely to start every day at 2b in the early part of the season. (He also is capable of playing 1B by the way.)
So — assuming Crosby isn’t traded very early — I wouldn’t be surprised to see him play ss with Cabrera at 2b during some games.
by OaklandSi on Mar 2, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've never heard of a player being able to play shortstop but not second base
The concept puzzles me.
In any case, if the A’s have to end up releasing Crosby and replacing him with one of the AAA middle infielders, I won’t be crying in my coffee— though it would be nice to get something back for him.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
by PaulThomas on Mar 2, 2009 4:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It's True Apparently...
…and unless BCro changes his tune quickly and considerably, his roster spot WILL go to someone else.
Crosby is quoted in the Chronicle, saying “I’ve never played anything except shortstop my whole life.”
“Ever.”
This isn’t going to go well. I hope the whole situation doesn’t become a team distraction.
`I firmly believe that in every game, at least one team should be required to wear a legitimate, major league uniform.' - Ken Korach - 8/4/06
by nodaclu on Mar 2, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's never pretty when a former superstar is forced to confront the notion of being a bench player
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 3, 2009 7:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I don’t understand why people don’t get this.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Mar 3, 2009 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I get him being unhappy ...
But, seriously, he shouldn’t be surprised … they placed him on waivers and no one wanted him … they’ve been trying to replace him all season …
He doesn’t have to like it, but either use it as motivation to improve or shut up and cash your check like a man …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 3, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In the alternate universe Crosby has been living in for years.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Mar 3, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much everywhere he played until he got into the majors?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Mar 3, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's one of the things that irritates me, when people say Player X is rubbish.
In reality he’s better than 99% of the population at said sport, he’s just poor in comparison to his peers.
by OldhamA on Mar 3, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's fair to assume that the relativity is implied ...
few (though not none) think they could do what the worst MLBer can do … and, as an MLB player, they shouldn’t want to be compared to non-MLBers.
Not to be completely full of myself … because, you know, I’m really only partially full of myself … but I would take it as an insult if someone compared me to the average in the things that I’m good at …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 3, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or at least to the minors ...
he was a good, but not great, player at every stop except one in the minors …
Which … fwiw, takes us to about the point when I was considered a superstar swimmer — at the level I was swimming at back then …
Now I do reminisce from time to time about what could have been if I were 6’3" or taller … but, yeah …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 3, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here are two great SS who might have looked odd at 2B
ARod.
Ripken
Basically, if you’re tall and pretty big, I think you probably need to get used to turning DPs so you don’t get flattened trying to turn 2. Even the bigger 2Bs — like Kent or Grich — were shorter and lighter than Crosby. I don’t know if there’s been 2B who was 6’3" and nearly 200 lbs like Crosby since turning DPs became the key defensive skill of the position.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Mar 2, 2009 8:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chase Utley is 6'1 200 lbs
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Mar 2, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a "problem" that would take about a week to fix for a natural infielder
by thejd44 on Mar 2, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I could see bigger shortstops having a problem with 2B. Not to say they couldn’t learn it, just that they might have problems adapting to the new position.
2B’men are more likely to get injured than any other position in baseball (according to some fantasy “guru” on Yahoo!, no current starting MLB 2B has played more than 150 games in the last three seasons — note, I have not checked the accuracy of that statement, but it sounds about right), and learning the position anew just makes it more likely that you’ll end up getting clobbered while trying to turn a double-play.
Again, I agree that, from a footwork-glovework-arm strength perspective, most SS should be able to learn the position, but I can certainly see the reason a career SS would be hesitant to move across the keystone.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Mar 3, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd suggest that a lot of the position's injury "risk" has to do with other factors ...
2b tend to be SS who aren’t nearly athletic enough to play SS — that lack of athleticism would presumably put them at greater risk of injury. Furthermore, 2b tend to not be very good — and, thus, are less likely to be everyday starters than players at other positions. Very few of them would start 150 games, given perfect health.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 3, 2009 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby won't be released
The A’s aren’t going to squander $5M on a useful player.
If he performs well in spring training and a roster spot opens on another team, it sounds like Beane will try to engineer a trade. Otherwise I think we’ll see a situation wherein Crosby plays SS and Cabrera goes to 2B.
One other thing: If the A’s do sign Nomar, can he be the fifth outfielder, used only in an emergency?
by richwol1 on Mar 2, 2009 6:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
no
he can barley stay healthy playing 1B and 3B.
The 5th Outfielder would likely be Cust. If there was an emergency, they’d move him from DH to the OF.
LF Holliday
CF Sweeney
RF Buck
DH Cust
CF Davis/Denorfia
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by Zonis on Mar 2, 2009 7:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, the A's aren't going to squander on a useful player
But we’re talking about Bobby Crosby instead.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Mar 2, 2009 10:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see Pennington being any better.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 3, 2009 7:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Never say never...
If Crosby refuses to play anything other than shortstop, then how useful is he at that point?
His initial response to the Chron was telling. He’ll fight it, and if he eventually gives in, he’ll still let the whole world know how unhappy he is about it.
The only thing Billy hates more then throwing away money is watching a clubhouse cancer ruin a competitive club.
Crosby willl have to become a MAJOR distraction for that to happen. But if he pouts and sulks enough (we’ve seen enough indicators in the past that he just doesn’t “get it”) he WILL be shown the door.
`I firmly believe that in every game, at least one team should be required to wear a legitimate, major league uniform.' - Ken Korach - 8/4/06
by nodaclu on Mar 2, 2009 10:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Crosby actually REFUSES to play
Can’t the A’s suspend him and recoup that $5.5 million?
by thejd44 on Mar 3, 2009 1:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying we should start a campaign of support encouraging our Bob to implement
Operation Shutdown on principle?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 3, 2009 7:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know much about options....
but can’t Crosby be sent down to Sac if he turns into an ass?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Mar 3, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
by PaulThomas on Mar 3, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, but he CAN be sent to Nico ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 3, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't he require horns for that?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Mar 3, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Nico can supply ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 3, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this is an honest question
and forgive me if it’s stupid and has an obvious answer, but:
Why is Hanahan considered unable to play SS? He’s certainly got a decent glove at 3B, and if he can play 2B, too, is the skill set not similar enough for him to back up SS as well? To me, at least, his range seems pretty good, as well as his first step, and his arm seems adequate. Is there something I’m missing? If not, surely this gives him an edge, as he could potentially back up any of the infield positions.
Obviously, his hitting is another issue, but hey. Maybe the wind will blow in the right direction a lot.
what have i got myself into this time... http://damiansthirtyyearchallenge.blogspot.com/
by alea iacta est on Mar 2, 2009 6:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Eric Patterson can play 2nd Base as well, but no one thinks he can play SS.
Chicago. Where the Dead can Vote. Where the Voters of Tomorrow are found in the Obituaries of Today.
by Zonis on Mar 2, 2009 7:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think his range would be horrible at SS; I suspect he would not be so good at 2B; he's sort of slow and lumbering
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Mar 2, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See my comment above re: big 2Bs
I just looked at Bill James’ list of the top 100 2Bs in the Historical Baseball Abstract. Not that James includes height/weight, and I have no idea how big someone like Fred Dunlap or Del Pratt was, but I think the biggest guy on the list was Ryne Sandberg, who’s listed on baseball-reference.com as 6’2", 180 — an inch shorter and nearly 20 lbs lighter than Crosby.
There just haven’t been that many 6’3" second basemen — turning the DP takes tons of agility and very quick footwork, and a bigger, heavier guy will probably have a harder time avoiding the runner than a smaller 2B. It’s not impossible for a guy Crosby’s size to play 2B, but Crosby would be in the 95+ percentile of major-league 2Bs at his size, and I don’t have any reason to think he’s such an amazing athlete that he’d be able to succeed at the far end of that bell curve.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Mar 2, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd think that the conventional wisdom of what a player has to look like has more to do with your point
than a player’s actual ability to handle a position.
by thejd44 on Mar 2, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
Players who are Crosby’s size and can’t play SS are typecast into third basemen and stuck there in the minor leagues. The notion that they can’t play 2B is dubious at best.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
by PaulThomas on Mar 2, 2009 10:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As noted above
See Utley, Chase who is ok at 2B.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Mar 2, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, though one outlier (especially a great player) doesn't necessarily make Nick wrong
by thejd44 on Mar 3, 2009 1:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, I don't think it's impossible for a guy as big as Crosby to play 2B
but 1) Crosby has evidently never played the position, and 2) it’s likely that he’d be one of the biggest players ever to play there. And it’s not like the A’s would be putting him there in order to keep his bat in the lineup.
Doug Flutie was a very successful QB, and Magic Johnson was one of the greatest PGs ever. Muggsy Bogues was very good, too. So height isn’t everything. But those guys were very talented and successful players, each of whom played played his position since he was a kid. Crosby is an unsuccessful baseball player who’s never played 2B.
There’s no harm in working with him on 2B in Spring Training, especially if Ellis can’t play, but I don’t think we can just assume that he’d be even an average defender at 2B with just a week or so of work.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Mar 3, 2009 6:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
McGwire started several games at second base ...
; )
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 3, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't there a study comparing the attributes on Fan Scouting Report of 2B
and 3B, finding that the primary differences were not tools, but rather height?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 3, 2009 7:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes-- it was done at Fangraphs
Look up “positional adjustments” and it should pop up.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
by PaulThomas on Mar 3, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He has a horrible arm for third base
I don’t think he’d do so well at short.
by thejd44 on Mar 2, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure he can play it sufficiently well to backup the position ...
if a long term injury occurs, you can move Cabrera over or call up a better defender …
If BoCro has a problem with that … well that’s really to bad … he’s lucky to have a job …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 2, 2009 10:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one who finds it odd that Bobby actually thinks he's could be starting somewhere else?
I just read somewhere that the Jays just said they think Scutaro is better. I mean, Crosby isn’t the worst SS in baseball by any means, but he’s still not so good that anyone is actually going to start trading for him now, esp after he’s already cleared waivers.
Speaking of which, doesn’t that me we can outright him down to AAA? Maybe Cliff CAN make the roster afterall?
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on Mar 3, 2009 7:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
As a five year player, he can't be outrighted without his permission. He can choose FA.
I don’t see the point of him in Sacramento anyway. It’s not like he’s a big upgrade over Petit or Wimberly.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 3, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I could be wrong
but if they outright him and he chooses FA, I believe he loses the $$.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
by DMOAS on Mar 3, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're wrong
Once a player has 5 years service time he cannot be forced to yield his salary under any circumstances.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
by PaulThomas on Mar 3, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What if he kills somebody?
Because really, AN has a lot of smart people who could probably set up a fantastic frame job.
by thejd44 on Mar 3, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a good idea until you broadcast it to the world...
by OldhamA on Mar 3, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lets just have a random AN'er solicit him for sex in his car
hey, worked for the Rockies with Neagle.
Chicago. Where the Dead can Vote. Where the Voters of Tomorrow are found in the Obituaries of Today.
by Zonis on Mar 3, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do I have to wear high heels?
I can’t stand high heels.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Mar 3, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking about sending one of the girls,
but hey if you’re willing…
by OldhamA on Mar 3, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You know what
That might make more sense. My back’s been killing me anyway.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Mar 3, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A player with five years of service may never be outrighted without consent, even if he clears waivers ...
If he does not give consent, the team may either release him or keep him in the Majors. Either way, they are obligated to pay his full salary.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Mar 3, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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