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Of Dutch team and European baseball

Back in the late 80s, when I was a sports crazed 17 year old kid growing up in former Yugoslavia, I knew the holder of every single track and field record in the world. I could recite top 10 NBA players in any statistically relevant category, as well as the winner of every single tennis tournament played, no matter how small. I would often engage in discussions whether Lemieux is having a better season than Gretzky. I won't even mention how much useless soccer, water polo or handball information a seventeen year old brain can absorb.

Yet, I knew of only two baseball players, which was on average two more than anyone else around me. One was Joe Di Magio, whose claim to fame was not his hitting streak nor his MVP titles, but the fact that he was once married to one Norma Jean. That's it. If anybody knew of him, he was Mr. Marilyn Monroe, not someone who had a job or achievements of his own.

The other one found a way to my picture wall. I drove my parents crazy by clipping and gluing just about every sports picture published in the local papers to my wall. On one of my visits to the US Embassy library - that was back in the day where it was still located downtown Zagreb, and where anybody could come in and read American newspapers and magazines - the nice librarian pulled me to the side and gave me my very own issue of Sports Illustrated as they were shipped one too many by mistake. I raced home, scissors in one hand and soon the clippings of great Chicago #23 in the other. When I was done with the cutting, there were still a couple of pages of some guy named Hershiser, who just accomplished something. The picture was cool, so I said what a hell.

Few months later I was an exchange student in  Syracuse, NY, welcomed by baseball crazed family split about 3:1 along Yankees/Mets line and watching, playing, discussing and dreaming baseball just about 24 hours a day. I got hooked, and when I returned to Europe a year later and when time for sports came again, I started discovering that marginal group of Europeans calling baseball a game of their own.

In the meantime I have played and coached more than 500 games in Croatia, Slovenia, Germany, France, Sweden, Czech Republic, Austria, Italy, Holland and Spain. I've played on gorgeous Olympic stadium in Barcelona, but also on the fields where half of the outfield was asphalt, or where a concrete Ping Pong table was in the middle of the (playable!) left field. I have played against Jason Grilli, but I have also played against players who didn't know they can take their base after being hit by pitch. I have been told by a dearest old lady, whom I asked to retrieve my home run ball that rolled over the street, that we kids should learn playing without losing equipment. As a coach I more than once had to drive to my players homes or workplaces couple of hours before departing for an away game trying to convince their wives (harder) or employers (easier) to let them play that funny game yet again.

It is an environment where baseball is played for the love of the game, as most of the players don't get paid and even have to bear the gasoline costs for away games. Players follow MLB and some of them save money for long time to make an overseas trip and actually see a game live. A few dream of actually making it in the bigs one day and even fewer try. Rick Vanden Hurk of Eindhoven, Netherlands, actually dreamt it and accomplished it, making him a first European born and raised player to have a shot at decent career in the majors.

But Dutch not only have best players, they are a guiding light for thousands and thousands of baseball enthusiasts all around Europe.It is a place where complete families, not just players and their friends or relatives will go out to watch a game. They keep organizing tournaments like Haarlemsee Honkballweek, regularly bringing Cuban and Japanese national team to European soil. Huston Street, Mark Teixeira, Mark Prior, Bobby Crosby all played there. They offer a touch of true baseball life without leaving Europe, an atmosphere comparable to some low Minors team. Crowds know their players and every now and then they will see a prospect go over the big sea and try his luck.

And every national baseball organization in Europe looks up to them and sees the next step. I doubt the time will ever come when baseball will be widespread in Europe. But, even if it doesn't the enthusiasm created by their good showings on international events (not only WBC, but also World Cup, with two straight 4th place finishes including the win over Cuba in 2007) does European baseball good. Sure, the main reason for their success are players from Aruba and Curacao, but it is a complete team effort in development, coaching and more and more European born players in the mix.

Well done, Oranje.

 

25 recs  |  Comment 56 comments

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Good stuff.

"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."

by VORP is too nerdy on Mar 11, 2009 11:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Post elcroata!

Thank you for your first hand insight into European baseball. I have family in Czech Republic, and every time I would visit, I would bring my glove, a ball, and any old gloves that fellow teammates were getting rid of. I would pass them out to kids I would meet were my family lived and play catch with them. It was a blast to show them a new game. In a country that is hockey crazy fist, then soccer, it was interesting to see their reaction to this foreign sport.

Baseball is really becoming an international sport (and MLB often does not embrace this enough), so it will be interesting to see what the future holds for those European kids who dream of being the next Rick Vanden Hurk………

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Mar 11, 2009 11:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Czech Republic

is doing a great job. They were one of the first countries to invest into American coaching, especially to work with the kids.

On the flip side I remember playing in Brno in mid to late nineties on a European Cup Winners Cup tournament. The field was completely covered with sand — not the normal red one, but rather a dark gray kind — and when I tried to stretch a lead-off single into a double and slid head first into second, I realized just how sharp those little sand particles were. My pants tore off at both knees, which together with my forearms immediately turned red.

When I came back to the dugout, my teammate said – you look like you’ve been thrown out of a running car.

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 11, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a person that frequents Prague,

Can you give some suggestions to bars/hangouts/etc. where these Czech baseball fans reside?

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff

"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40

"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi

by ST on Mar 11, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, never played in Prague

But visited it on other occasions – so, a tip anyway. If you want to try some really exquisite cuisine and don’t want to break a bank for it, go to Flambee, where Dusan Jakubec performs culinary miracles on regular bases.

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 12, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great read.

Who was this sultan of sock, this hero of hosiery, this stalwart of shinwear? Ah, Wimberly — Corey Wimberly. -Uni Watch

by pam5981 on Mar 11, 2009 11:28 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well done, indeed.

Thanks for the post.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Mar 11, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Cool perspective

Thanks.

I just remembered I love Eric Chavez.

by Joey C. on Mar 11, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice Post elcroata

I’m from the Netherlands myself and I must say this is a very accurate post! Matt Stairs also played for Canada at the Haarlemse Honkbalweek, and Hank Aaron even payed Haarlem a visit in 1974, as can be seen in this short youtube-clip .

by R14 on Mar 11, 2009 11:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Split, Croatia has a baseball league

Baseball field and players in Split, Croatia. September 2006. Nice unis.

by Santa Cruz Surfer on Mar 11, 2009 11:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Played there :)

It is somewhat of a poor man’s Coliseum, as baseball team shares it with the same named (Nada, meaning hope) rugby team.

Split is where Croatian baseball started, albeit on a less then honorable note. Local kids stole some baseball equipment from one of the US Navy vessels and soon afterwards the team was formed. Gives “stealing a base” a whole new meaning, I guess.

They also had a first bona fide star of the region, Mladen Sasso, a fireballer who went on to play in the Dutch League. In a typical showing of his Mediterranean temperament, his career was cut short when he wanted to prove — without warming up, still in his streets clothes — that he can throw a ball over the outfield fence while standing behind home plate.

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 11, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I watched those guys play for awhile, the level of play was pretty high, I’d say at Amer Legion level, though the pitcher was pretty lousy, he was throwing bp fastballs pretty much.

Despite the presence of a league and unis, croata, baseball will never exceed the popularity of soccer (idemo Hajduk!), water polo, handball, basketball, tennis, etc etc. its way down on the list and will be forever, alas.

by Santa Cruz Surfer on Mar 11, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh, I wouldn't worry to much about how the kids

requisitioned their equipment. Of all people, U.S. sailors would understand.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Mar 17, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Studying Abroad

Over in croatia this summer :)

by FrozenA'sFan on Mar 11, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess the title and the body of the message are unrelated

Otherwise congratulations on being the first one to put “Croatia”, “summer” and “studying” in one sentence ;-)

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 12, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you!

I really enjoyed and appreciated your story. One of the things I love most about the WBC is learning about how the players came to be involved in the sport.

by Ray of Lite on Mar 11, 2009 11:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Edification, please

Are there any other European countries in the WBC besides Netherlands? Can they draw upon any other European countries for their team?

by redtopcowboy on Mar 11, 2009 12:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

italy

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Mar 11, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Italy and no,

they can not draw upon any other European countries. Wouldn’t bring much either, as there is a significant drop off in quality afterwards and it is always easier to find someone in the US whose grandmother once made her own pizza, thus qualifying him for the Italian squad.

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 11, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

as someone who has a chance to play professionally in europe in 2010/11

i thought this was a great read. baseball is definitely spreading throughout europe. a couple of colleagues of mine have played and coached in germany, belgium and italy, amongst others. another friend (a 20-year-old female baseball fanatic) has actually coached in turkey. awesome stuff.

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Mar 11, 2009 12:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Germany is doing some things right, lately

It is probably the most improving country of the three you mentioned. They are pretty ambitious and have a good infrastructure (they are partially hosting a World Cup in September).

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 11, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Elcroata, thanks for the eligibility info above

I know that one of Oakland’s minor leaguers, Sam Demel, is 100% German lineage. I wonder if he might be Germany’s closer in the next WBC?

by redtopcowboy on Mar 11, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

right

my friends had nothing but great things to say about their time spent playing in germany.

thanks again for the writeup.

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Mar 12, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Olympics and baseball

One thing that I forgot to mention and not many people realize is that omission of baseball from the Olympics is kinda big deal around here. Apart from the obvious, in many European countries Olympic and non Olympic sports receive different fundings.

Especially when it comes to improving infrastructure or providing some equipment for the kids, these funds are essential and the lack of it is already being felt. For example our batting cage collapsed this winter due to heavy snowfall and strong winds and the city will not help rebuild it, as we are not playing an Olympic sport. I’m sure there are many similar examples around Europe, where the whole saga of baseball in Olympics was being followed perhaps even more closely than in some baseball developed countries.

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 11, 2009 12:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

well, in some ways, the WBC may help this

I’ve always thought that if a sport does not have the olympics as it’s primary tournament, it probably doesn’t belong there.

Hence, I don’t think that tennis or soccer should be there (even though i love both of these sports). Baseball, too, does not have the olympics as it’s primary focus (though, an argument could be made that international baseball would. but whatever).

There was talk of cricket being included in 2012 (it was in the first olympics, fact fans. England beat France!), but this now does not look like it’s going to happen. Yknow, if the UK is not bankrupt by then, and the games actually do go ahead

what have i got myself into this time... http://damiansthirtyyearchallenge.blogspot.com/

by alea iacta est on Mar 11, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a good point

re the Olympics being a sport’s biggest international championship, and I agree with you about tennis & soccer not really being compelling Olympic sports. Basketball has obviously become very big internationally and the Olympics are really the most significant intl tourney, so it has become relevant, and you could say the same for hockey too. I’d love to see the WBC morph into a true World Cup style event, even it it means disrupting the season a bit every four years. Have a real national team that plays together for a while and make the MLB teams deal with it when there are international tourneys that require the players. It will probably never happen, but as can be seen with the excitement generated in the WBC even though it’s held during spring training and most of the players aren’t in mid-season form there is a lot of merit to having an international championship. Heck, call it something radical like the World Series.

by sslinger on Mar 11, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In-season WBC

European soccer weaves league play and various cups all together. One advantage of MLB being so dominant is that the best players from the US, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, and Puerto Rico are in the US during the season, along with a fair number of Mexican players (and others are next door in the Mexican league). And all the Americans who qualify for Italy and the Netherlands are here, too. It seems like they could schedule a few breaks in the regular season to let the players suit up for their national teams. The only big problem I think would be the Asian teams, most of whose players would have to cross the Pacific to participate.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Mar 11, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The mlb schedule is too full for that.

Football teams only play once a week, so scheduling a midweek European game isn’t too much hassle. MLB teams play pretty much everyday from April-Sept and then of course deep into Oct. There just isn’t time.

by OldhamA on Mar 11, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make it a year long event ...

opening round during ST with each team playing 5 or so games to qualify for the second round …
which is held over an extended All-Star break — 5 games over the course of 5 days … (No MLB pitcher may start more than 1 game)
and leads to the semi-finals and finals, the semis scheduled at the same time as the World Series (games immediately preceding the WS games) with the finals immediately following it.

It actually wouldn’t really be any more taxing than a regular season is now for a pitcher who goes to the WS and plays in the current WBC) — he would pitch, at most, 3 extra games. For most, it would just mean they had the workload of a pitcher whose team went deep into the playoffs …

I think it would help to increase interest in the World Series, though it would kill the All-Star game that year, since most All-Stars would, hopefully, be playing in the WBC instead. It would require a couple of scheduled double headers — but that shouldn’t outweigh the positives.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 12, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think wouldn't work.

For a start baseball fans and players would get frustrated that their season is being disrupted. Plus I think the momentum of the event builds the excitement – if it’s stop start people will care less than they do now.

by OldhamA on Mar 13, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Their season is being disrupted?

the All-Star break is being expanded by 2 days!

Plus I think the momentum of the event builds the excitement

I couldn’t disagree more. People get bored. Unfulfilled anticipation builds excitement. One long tournament requires more commitment than most are willing to give. I’ll grant you, the first round games will not be that big in America — but they will be in China and Japan, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic — and allowing the non-MLB producing nations more time in the spotlight can only be good for their programs.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Mar 13, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thing is, though

The Olympics needs team sports, since they are a big part of int’l sporting events. Most of the reasonable candidates are in. About the only one that isn’t that I can think of is rugby, which has its own World Cup as well. (It’s also questionable as an Olympic sport because of the injury rate.)

I’m OK with the Olympics being just one of many prestigious tournaments (as in skiing, where the World Cup globe is of similar prestige value, or in tennis for that matter), although soccer’s “second-class team” requirement is a little much.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Mar 11, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you can have team sports without having soccer, rugby, etc

handball, frinstance. or, erm, all in wrestling. oh! rowing. that’s definitely a team sport.

ok, i take your point, it’s not cut and dried. But for me, i like watching athletes compete at the olympics for what is the most important competition of their careers, what they build a four year cycle around, and not just something fun to do in the summer when the world cup isn’t on. Or other event, as appropriate.

what have i got myself into this time... http://damiansthirtyyearchallenge.blogspot.com/

by alea iacta est on Mar 11, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't get me started on the Olympics.

The fact squash is excluded is absurd.

by OldhamA on Mar 11, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i am sad about that

also that i have been unable to find a squash court in the bay area

what have i got myself into this time... http://damiansthirtyyearchallenge.blogspot.com/

by alea iacta est on Mar 11, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't they still have them at Cal?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Mar 11, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

this why the WBC is so important

in the 60’s/70’s Juan Marichal was the lone Domincan representative in MLB. today, many of the top players are Domincan… and his accomplishments can largely be regarded as a catalyst. same thing happened with japan, south america and now europe.

liek the NBA…. baseball gets better as it becomes global. the talent pool is larger, and those who make it to the top are that much more qualified.

great post.

i was wrong to do that stuff

by jaylikewise on Mar 11, 2009 1:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Great stuff

how did you become an A’s fan?

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Mar 11, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not really sure

Of course, getting to know baseball while living in Upstate NY, I jumped on the Yankees train first. But I guess if you were raised in communism and finally got rid of it, you don’t want to become a part of another dogmatic, infallible group, no matter on what grounds.

When I started working for the company I work for now, I often made trips to HQ in Northern Cal and used it to watch Giants and A’s. Nicer stadium and all, but Giants were not that appealing to me. And, I loved what the Oakland front office was trying to achieve. Last, but not the least – this very site. It was so heads and shoulders above any other sports related that I knew, with so much insight and possibility to learn and exchange opinions in a dignified manner.

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 12, 2009 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

+ 75

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Mar 12, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

c'mon
and possibility to learn and exchange opinions in a dignified manner.

No one’s taking the bait on this one?

by colin on Mar 12, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really interesting post

Thanks.

In man's evolution he has created the cities and the motor traffic rumble
But give me half a chance and I'll be taking off my clothes and living in the jungle

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Mar 11, 2009 7:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

nice!

it was very interesting to read
thanks for sharing

by Wreckonized on Mar 11, 2009 7:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You're one of my people!

In more ways than one. My family traces back to Czechoslovakia, and it makes me want to visit. This story is about so much more than competition. Thank you!

"You have to score to win"~Rickey Henderson

by lynnzgal on Mar 11, 2009 8:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Thank you

And do make that visit. Life is so about the things we will remember in the end and that would definitely be one of them.

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 12, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then you must visit Prague and stroll the Charles Bridge early in the morning

You will be forever connected to your ancestors…..

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Mar 12, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way...

Without going into any real detail here, at some point in the very near future I will be in a position to be able to donate money to various things of my choosing.

If I wanted to send some money to a few countries, even if it’s just a few hundred dollars (which in some cases I kind of suspect might go farther over there than it would here, not that I’m going to ignore things locally), would you be able to get me some information about how to make that happen?

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Mar 12, 2009 12:36 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think so

There are already some organizations and individuals who do things like Masaryk said in another thread — just go around asking their little league or HS teams if anyone can spare an old glove or bat instead of throwing it away. This is usually a great help, because many kids can’t afford them and there is also no better way to hook a young kid to baseball then lending them their very own glove, he or she can take care of.

Another form of foreign help comes from the MLB itself, in form of coaching. There are numerous coaches touring Europe in summer, working with the local teams and their staff, trying to improve the training techniques.

As far as individuals donating money directly, there is not much of that, unless some kind of heritage line exists. If you come to that point, I would be glad to try to assist you on finding something of your liking that you would like to support. Let me know if the chance arises.

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 12, 2009 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

My e-mail’s in my profile. Maybe we could talk more privately soon?

I’m going to be (hopefully) dealing with a move into the first home I’ll be owning in a little over a month and that’s my #1 priority right now.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Mar 12, 2009 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, all

Wow! So many nice words and twenty-plus recommendations. That’s great :)

I’m glad the topic was of interest to you and I might soon ask for your help in spreading the word the other way around. I would like to write an article on spring training (I’m going to my first one on 26th, whoohoo!!!) for some Croatian/German/Spanish-language magazine in Europe and would love to be able to count on some of your stories, experiences or pictures in doing so.

So, beware, another not entirely A’s related fanpost is coming soon…

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Mar 12, 2009 6:53 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

world series name change to honkball week

owner of a lonely tarp

by oakath on Mar 12, 2009 10:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A terrific read, as always elcroata

"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane

by pickinmachine on Mar 12, 2009 5:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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