Okay, this is getting crazy. Time to pull the trigger! (Latest from MLBTR.com)
by Yourmyboyblue on Feb 8, 2009 10:11 AM PST
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- · The A's are continuously interested in Orlando Cabrera, Adam Dunn, and Abreu.
- Bobby Abreu may have to settle for a one or two year deal at $3MM. Cafardo lists the Angels, Mets, Braves, Dodgers, and Mariners.
For 1 year at 3 million dollars there is no reason in the world not sign Abreu, even if it is just for the simple fact it keeps him off the Angels. Depth, especially on the A’s is not a bad thing.
Besides the fact putting that the Gambino at first, Cust in the OF and a DH of Areu is not the best defensive line up, but Sweeny/ Buck, Suzuki, Chavy, Holiday, Cust, Gambino, Abreu (what ever order you want) is a pretty damn good line up that I’m sure our young pitching staff would love to have.
Please give one good reason that Bobby should not be an A for a 3 million one year contract.
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For 1 year, $3 million i'll take Abreu.
The problem is that at that price he is going to have at least a half dozen teams who are willing to pay him, and I can’t see him picking the A’s out of the bunch. We have a glut of OF’rs, but if Buck goes down or decides not to hit again we are stuck with a bunch of 4th OF’rs, a bunch that no longer includes Matt Murton. For this reason I would be ok with an Abreu or Dunn signing if they come at the discounts we have been hearing thrown around. I just don’t see it happening, and wouldn’t want it happening unless its Abreu for <$5 million or Dunn for <$8 million.
And for the record
I don’t see Cunningham as a 4th OF’r, but I also don’t see him as being ready for a full time MLB position yet. He needs another half season at least in AAA before he makes the permanent jump.
If Buck goes down, I'd think Barton would be the next option. It would have to be both Buck and
Giambi or Sweeney going down before Cunningham came into the picture earlier than he’s ready.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Feb 8, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Hmm...Abreu on the A's and not on the Angels,
or Russ Springer on the A’s…
Where would my 3million go? Well, I suppose that depends on how much better I thought Abreu would make LAA. If it meant not signing Dunn, maybe it’s not so bad that the Angels add a terrible defensive player who won’t hit 40 HR. You could look at it that way.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
any team can sign him at the price
he may prefer dodgers, angels, etc
my guess is A’s go after cabrera at 5mill or less…if he’s unwilling they’ll sign more pitching like mulder/sisco.
i stil see abreu/dunn as long shots…i see them signing anderson on the cheap before those 2
btw, andruw jones to rangers minor league deal 500,000 + 1mill incentives
Anderson can't come cheap enough
he’s worse than any option we have.
Dogfood Gangstas
Canned or Dry,
We Neva Die.
What if he actually PAID the A's?
and he paid us enough to extend Holliday?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Feb 8, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+++++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No to Garret Anderson.
"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."
The Many Wines-Rumi
We need a SS more than
we need another outfielder. I think that we need to show some faith in Sweeney and Buck. They’re going to be the future anyways after all these one year deals would be gone anyways.
They will have great hitters to ask questions to in Holliday and Giambi. Although Cabrera isn’t necessarily a great hitter, he is a veteran that has been to the World Series, and could help out all the young hitters. I can live with a SS hitting more than 60 points better than Crosby and probably still has equal if not better defense.
Who did Bobby Abreu piss off?
Three million bucks for a guy that put up a 120 OPS+ last year? That’s astounding.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Teams are starting to cotton to what a complete train wreck Abreu is in the outfield
Unless your DH spot is open, the guy is a below-average player. (The same situation holds for Dunn, of course, who is barely above average because of his glove.)
What puzzles me is why teams with bad DH situations aren’t taking fliers on these guys. In particular, the Twins— are they really going with Jason Kubel instead of signing these guys on the cheap?
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Kubel isn't bad. They also have Young. The Twins seem to be saving up for a 3B.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Feb 8, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Kubel's also not particularly good
Dunn at DH would be a huge upgrade.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
Good point.
And to add to it, Abreu would actually add some value over your typical DH, because he isn’t the prototypical base clogger once he gets on. He’s stolen 20 or more bases the last nine years running.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Insert gaulimaufry(sic) base clogging here
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Feb 8, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
It amazes me that someone with that kind of speed
could be as bad as he is in the outfield. And yet, it’s true— it’s not just metrics that hate him, he doesn’t even look good out there. If you consider speed the “primary tool” for outfield defense, then Abreu must have about the worst set of “secondary tools” (route-running, hands, willingness to run into walls, etc) of any outfielder in baseball.
One interesting point we could draw from this is that an outfielder with appalling speed but solid secondary skills (Pat Burrell) and an outfielder with solid speed but appalling secondary skills (Abreu) are about equally bad, which suggests that speed is about as important as all other non-arm skills put together for outfielders. (Throwing ability typically isn’t measured by standard defensive metrics.)
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
I think that point is likely true for the corners, but not CF
There have been lots of excellent corner outfielders who were pretty slow baserunners — Joe Rudi and Dwight Evans come immediately to mind. But I think it’s a good deal harder to succeed in CF if you have average or below speed. Maybe Jim Edmunds would be a good counterexample, or possibly Dwayne Murphy, who slowed down as a baserunner over his career but kept winning GGs (though that doesn’t mean he maintained his level of performance).
Another factor to take into account in a historical analysis is the size of outfields: I’d bet that outfields are as small now as they’ve ever been across the board, which should make speed less important than ever for outfielders.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I don't think Dunn and Abreu want to DH
and that’s why teams with DH openings haven’t taken fliers on them.
Although, at this point both guys would be silly not to broaden their employment horizons. The market has spoken.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Feb 8, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
I'd rather have Kubel than Abreu for the next 3-4 years.
by thejd44 on Feb 9, 2009 12:18 AM PST up reply actions
Why?
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
elaborate
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
No kidding. But I think it's his strange fear of outfield walls that has blackballed him.
"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."
The Many Wines-Rumi
Pennington's bat seems to have that too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
baddum-bum!
"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."
The Many Wines-Rumi
I'd much, much rather have Dunn than Abreu.
Both are defensive liabilities, so why not get the one who you pencil in for 40 bombs?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
I like them both but
lets get real here – I doubt they come to oakland.
Dunn = nationals
Aberu = Mets, Astros, or Dodgers (if manny goes to the Giants)
O. Cabrera = A’s (is there even another team looking at him right now?) Offer him 5 million + 1 million in incentives and done – no more – he is really not that good and is said to be a bad teammate – so offer him one contract or he can’t watch opening day on mlb.com
Given the choice, would you rather play for Washington or Oakland?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
That's a tough one.
Dunn could probably put up bigger numbers in Washington for his next deal, but the A’s have a better chance at postseason play in 2010-12.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Feb 8, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Then I guess it would boil down to playing for a contract or playing for the postseason.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
But he's an internet rumormonger....
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Feb 8, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
What Cabrera wants
From what I am reading Cabrera STILL thinks he is worth 9 million a year and is holding out. If the A’s sign him it will around 5 million. I can see the A’s wiating until around the 15th before saying see ya. Cabrera may wait until May 1st to sign when no comp is needed. Talk about a gamble. So its a waiting game.
Dunn will go to the nationals because they will be the only team offering more than 5 million. I don;t see the angels signing anyone unless a injury occurs or if Abreu is willing to sign cheaply.
+1
i read somewhere that only NL teams can sign him without losing a pick as well. AL teams lose the pick regardless of the timing
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
That sounds highly suspect
I’ll consult the CBA, but I don’t believe that to be true at all.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
travdog6, I think that's a mix of two different pieces of info
The “NL teams” connection is something made by Eddie Bajek of Tigers Thoughts. It basically says this:
If Cabrera wants to avoid being slapped with Type A status again next year, he should sign with an NL team this season – because NL shortstops are much better than AL shortstops and thus Cabrera will grade out lower in comparison against them.
If Cabrera signs with an AL team, he’s very likely to once again achieve Type A status and potentially be in the same position next year. (Although he won’t have Furcal to compete with on next year’s FA market).
If he signs with an NL team, he’s far less likely to be a Type A.
But neither of those scenarios have any impact upon him costing a pick. That’s only if he holds out until after draft day (I think), as Zonis suggested.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Feb 8, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
or he can do an run-around and sign a minor league contract, with money if he makes the majors
which is pretty standard practice for a lot of free agents, though usually ones that are fringe players or coming back from injuries (for example, Mike Sweneey and soon to be Mark Mulder).
If Cabrera did sign a minor league deal that paid him $5 million if he made the team, and gave him an out clause on, say, March 30th (which is what Andruw Jones just did), then that would get around the draft pick issue.
And I doubt there would be that much argument over it, since we are already late into the off season, no one else is interested in Cabrera, and the White Sox didn’t want him back at all anyways.
Dogfood Gangstas
Canned or Dry,
We Neva Die.
my bet is
that kenny williams would definitely put up an argument. Nobody’s going to just give up on a compensatory pick. But if anyone would, it would be K-dub.
I don’t think this could actually happen.
The A's did with Shannon Stewart
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
thanks for the clarification
all i read was this
Eddie Bajek tested my statement about Cabrera not getting Type A status again if he sits out two months, finding that it might only hold true if he signs with an NL team.
and then i assumed the rest which worked out rather poorly
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
He might also be waiting for a starting SS to get hurt in Spring Training
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Or he's going to pull a Gillooly
and take care of it himself.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Here's a question about the A's' situation
Whatever the A’s are offering him now, how much more would they offer if their default SS (Crosby? Pennington?) were to get hurt in a few weeks? In Crosby’s case, especially, it’s not idle speculation.
And the A’s aren’t even a first-rank contender here. Imagine if the Yankees of Red Sox or Phillies suddenly found themselves without a SS for 3 or 4 months. I’d bet that Cabrera could get more than $5m for one year from one of them.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
His problem is that if no one gets hurt, and he turns down the A's offer,
he could quite easily get $0.00, because the list of teams even looking for a SS has shrunk to nearly zero.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
On second thought, you're right
Looks like it’s time for him to get in touch with Tonya!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Why would Abreu come here?
He’s certainly not guaranteed 500 PAs. He wouldn’t play regularly in the OF, 1B, or DH. Everyone is ASSUMING he can play 1B at all.
If he’s going to take it in the shorts and accept a one year deal to get a much bigger contact next off-season, then why would he go to a team (and a stadium) that would severaly lower his value for next off-season?
Shit, Beane would probably take him in a heartbeat at $3 million. But there’s no way he comes to Oakland for that much.. or little.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
no abreu, no dunn... don't care about price
let our guys play…
"Clayton Kershaw's curveball scares children"
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