Will This End The Sheets Debate 'Round Here?
by stranahanahan on Feb 5, 2009 11:09 AM PST
Email
PrintMILWAUKEE -- Finally, an answer to one of this winter's most puzzling questions: Why is the National League's All-Star Game starting pitcher still looking for a job?
The answer is that free agent right-hander Ben Sheets may need surgery to repair the torn flexor tendon in his elbow, and his former employers may be asked to pick up the tab. Brewers assistant general manager Gord Ash said on Thursday that the team has been in discussions this week with Sheets' agent and officials from Major League Baseball about who would pay for the procedure
Interesting development today with hearing that he apparentally had all but signed with Texas when a physical resulted in a deal breaker.
So, as I begin to think about how A's fans will react to this (as he's been a hot topic of late), this may not end the debate but instead continue it further. It seems like a no brainer that anyone signing him before June would probably be making a huge mistake, assuming he probably won't be ready now before June at the earliest. So why risk giving up a draft pick. Does this leave Milwaukee as his only suitor? Should the A's try and nab him June 1st, thus not risking a pick? Or should they consider signing him before June, losing a draft pick but jumping in before anyone else does... 3 solid months out of Sheets is better than none, but is the risk worth it?
76 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Not worth it
The A’s have had enough experience with injured players. Time to move on.
Agree 100% well maybe 99.9% but definitely agree
The nuts and bolts of gameplay are apocalyptic failures, but the awfulness doesn’t stop there. Managing games is utterly pointless. [Feb 2009, p.85]
It better.
The Sheets love on this board might be the silliest thing I’ve seen since I’ve been posting here. He’s a not-as-good version of Rich Harden. And his injury history is nearly as frustrating.
by thejd44 on Feb 5, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions
I don't think it's been silly at all
Those in the “pro Sheets” camp have said “unless his medical reports show…” The focus has been on the importance of upgrading the #2 starter spot and Sheets’ likely asking price. Obviously there’s risk and if the risk is too high, or isn’t risk but fact, then no team, including Oakland, should be signing him up for the April rotation.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Even if his medical reports showed he was 100% it was silly
Because Rich Harden was “100% healthy” plenty of times and so was Mark Prior. Sheet’s injury history is just too much risk for a team like Oakland to take.
by thejd44 on Feb 5, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
Except Sheets actually made a lot of starts
compared to the others. Sheets has been a lot more like Duchscherer than like Harden or Prior.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sheets has averaged 27+ starts and 178+ innings in eight seasons
also, check out this piece over at Fangraphs. Seems prescient now, but it makes a pretty interesting case for a half season of Sheets.
I'm starting to like our bullpen......Wuertz and all.
I'd rather have Sheets for the first half of the season than the second half,
because his replacement is from Gio/Mazarro/Simmons/Cahill/Anderson. Unfortunately, that’s the one scenario that appears impossible.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's really misleading
Because 23.5 starts and 150 IP over the past 4 years. And, yeah, that’s not truly awful (and better than Harden), but it’s also not a good sign when a pitcher missed significant time in 3 of the last 4 years, and the only year he didn’t miss a ton of starts he damaged his elbow to the point of needing surgery.
by thejd44 on Feb 6, 2009 12:24 AM PST up reply actions
have you seen this site?
the Injury Tool is pretty amazing…
Fantasy Pitch f/x
I'm starting to like our bullpen......Wuertz and all.
Also -- I Pinged you on the GUBA forums.
Post plx thx.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
just because I'm seeing you mention this every thread...
what are these forums you’re talking about? Just curious
"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane
It's the fake online baseball league that I run using OOTP Baseball 9.
theguba.net if you’re interested.
JD44 and I actually knew each other from hte OOTP message boards previous to realizing who each other was on AN, and now I’m trying to recruit him into the league :)
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
his middle name is LaVerne
he would Shirley be an upgrade the starting rotation could use.
by WhiteElephant on Feb 5, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
Dont call me Shirley
The nuts and bolts of gameplay are apocalyptic failures, but the awfulness doesn’t stop there. Managing games is utterly pointless. [Feb 2009, p.85]
"We put him on the DL?! What is it?"
“It’s a list full of injured A’s, but that’s not important right now…”
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
Braden Looper plus Josh Outman would make an interesting experiment in "platoon starters"
if the A’s really felt like going out on an experimental limb.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Especially if they could both play solid defense in RF
(or better yet, SS).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Huh?
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
(that would be an even more interesting experiment in platoon starters)
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
It was a joke, suggesting
you would start one with the other in RF, then keep going lefty/righty all game, batter by batter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How would platoon starters work?
I think it’s an interesting idea, but I’m not sure how it works in practice. Do you start Outman if the opponent is particular bad against LHP and Looper if the opponent is particularly bad against RHP? Does it matter than Outman isn’t (yet) a particularly good LHP?
What do you do about the opponent countering the decision to have Outman start by stacking their lineup with right-handed bats (for example, a team who carries Marcus Thames on its bench might start Thames in place of, say, Jody Gerut for the evening, thereby eliminating Outman’s LH-platoon advantage against Gerut)?
And, how do you deal with extended time off if one guy doesn’t start for a while? Do you use Outman and Looper as long-RPs and spot-SPs all year? Do you make one of them the designated #5 SP, unless the other one is a better play that day? Seems like it might throw off Looper’s rhythm to be starting every 5th or 10th day depending on matchups…
by Uncle Charlie on Feb 5, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
I'd figure you would start the lefty if the opponent's normal lineup has 4 or 5 lefties in it
Keep in mind, while it’s generally customary to announce starters ahead of time, you don’t actually have to do so. So it’s a guessing game with the other manager— if he puts in Thames instead of Gerut but you cross him up by starting Looper, he’s screwed.
One presumes that the other guy is the long man. Neither of these guys is expected to go deep into games anyway, so it’s not a big deal if he throws 2 innings Tuesday and then 5 innings Friday. Obviously, if one guy is unavailable to make a start because he’s pitched too recently, you have to go with the other one.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Not announcing the starter might be considered "dirty play,"
but you could start Outman and bring in Looper after one hitter – same idea, but it’s not “dirty” because it has a cost to you too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Shrug
It’s not against the rules… least not as far as I know…
Given how often other players do things that actually ARE against the rules and call it “gamesmanship,” I can’t see how they have a leg to stand on.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Rational or not, there are "codes" in baseball,
and a strategy that breaks one, written or unwritten, isn’t going to fly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Like not bunting for a base hit during a no-hitter
Which I think is stupid a stupid unspoken rule. Getting a hit is the job of the batter right? So what difference does it make how a hitter gets a hit. If a pitcher can’t field the bunt that’s his problem and I am looking at you Mr. Schilling.
Sorry about that but this rant brought to you by attention deficit disorder.
Oh something shiny
The nuts and bolts of gameplay are apocalyptic failures, but the awfulness doesn’t stop there. Managing games is utterly pointless. [Feb 2009, p.85]
I'm with you on that one
If you can’t stop a guy from bunting safely, that’s your pitching/defense’s problem. The hitter’s job is to reach base and there’s nothing “cheap” about bunting – if you don’t want him to, play up and give him a better chance of grounding one past you.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Mark-I Eyeball
Perhaps I am mis-remembering (it’s been months since I’ve been to a live game) but isn’t the starting pitcher usually warming up before lineups are exchanged? I would think that you would have to have both warming up, or just one and the other guys sneaks a warm-up in someplace hidden? Whatever is done, it seems like it wouldn’t really work as a deceptive tack. Now, some lineups (Brewers come to mind) list heavily to one side, and no amount of “oh, we are facing a RHP” information in advance will change that (only a GM getting some hitters from the other side). So I’m not sure this would be particularly useful.
Wasn't it "Yost manages at home, Sveum on the road"?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm so glad Yost is gone
Sveum did some strange things although the highlight of his long managerial career was getting a run taken off the board in the playoffs by pointing out the interference rule to the umpiring crew.
But hey, this year we’ve got none other that Ken Macha. Willie Randolph is bench coach. Sveum is hitting coach. And you’ve got “Ski.”
One thing you should know:
When Macha says “The players fill out the lineup card,” he doesn’t really so much mean it. Otherwise he’s pretty boring competent.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OK, but unlike home and road splits, platoon splits aren't utterly worthless
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
LALALALALALALALA
CAN’T HEAR YOU
BEN SHEETS TO THE A’S
Billy Beane loves soccerball, and so should you
by alea iacta est on Feb 5, 2009 12:13 PM PST reply actions
no need
as the A’s are going to sign a fully fit Ben Sheets for a league minimum contract plus a lifetime subscription to McAfee virus protection.
don’t you know anything?
Billy Beane loves soccerball, and so should you
by alea iacta est on Feb 5, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
mark mulder
they say he’ll have a workout sometime soon…probably when A’s officials will be in spring training they’ll take a look at his workout in az. if all goes well, i expect him to be oakland bound
really...
He seemed to have a tired arm at the end of the season when he was young….
I can’t imagine what it would be like now.
by WhiteElephant on Feb 5, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
he's not cheap just on special
The nuts and bolts of gameplay are apocalyptic failures, but the awfulness doesn’t stop there. Managing games is utterly pointless. [Feb 2009, p.85]
Well at least we dont have to worry about regretting not signing him
Supposing he were to be healthy and kicking ass this year. Clearly not happening.
I miss Chad God
Wow, that's really too bad.
There’s no way we’re going to see a good arm added to this rotation now, unless it’s done via trade. I’m glad the bullpen looks as good as it does.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I figured something was up and now we have a real explanation.
Oh well……….so do the A’s now focus on adding one mare bat?
"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."
The Many Wines-Rumi
Truer words were never spoken.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Too bad they seem to use colts and get rid of them...
…before they become full stallions, then get the old ones when it’s about time to put them out to pasture.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
I am guessing this pretty much ends any further significant offseason signing possibilties
Cabrera is not worth the money and may not be an upgrade at all. I guess we could sign Manny and just DH him.
Orlando Hudson maybe? I am thinking that might be a decent move.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
The problem with Hudson is that
he’s more expensive than Ellis (partly because Ellis signed such a reasonable deal) and Ellis is under contract for 2-3 years. If Hudson could handle SS, sure – but truthfully I can’t really give credence to the hope of a 31-year coming off an injury playing a difficult position well that he’s never played.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If you made that move
I think it would be Ellis you’d move to short. Of course, he is also coming off an injury, but he has lots of experience playing that position.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
If he could, that would be great,
but ever since he was Crosbied it’s just not an option.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I guess
It doesn’t look like it to me when I see him throw from second, but I can only assume the A’s have thought of this option before. It’s not like Crosby sucking is a new development.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Ellis has impeccable footwork on his throws
Maybe the best in baseball. It masks the difficulty he has throwing long distances. He’s also very smart, so he doesn’t even attempt throws on balls that he has no chance on.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
This might work two ways
Probably Nico brought this up before. But Hudson would provide some backup/flexibility if Ellis can’t play. And it puts some more heat on Crosby. Best case scenario all three are healthy and performing and the A’s have a super sub middle infielder. That’s right, I would consider BoCro a super sub. I’m gonna stand by that. (smirk)
If the A’s have another $5 to 10m to spend this offseason… I’m just having trouble seeing another scenario that would pay off in the free agent realm, but I feel like the team is not as good as Beane hoped when he traded for Holliday. I also can’t imagine Billy doing the Holliday thing just thinking a big bat would put butts in the seats and tide the A’s over until 2010 when the young stud pitchers will be ready.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Feb 5, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
things said by a seamstress druing relations
The nuts and bolts of gameplay are apocalyptic failures, but the awfulness doesn’t stop there. Managing games is utterly pointless. [Feb 2009, p.85]
You've been reading CGB lately too, eh?
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Is that what you get when you break the rules while you have a head cold?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
NAILED IT!
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
