You Pick Three: Giambi, Cust, Buck, Barton
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 8:00 AM PST
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In last week’s "you play the manager" lineup thread, it became increasingly obvious that with the off-season addition of Jason Giambi (who is basically a duplicate Jack Cust), the A’s once again have an issue with the designated hitter role. Since the league won’t allow the A’s to DH for their pitcher and their shortstop, one of the DH’s is going to have to play the field.
The question really isn’t "Who would you rather have play the field; Jason Giambi or Jack Cust?" since at this stage in their career (not to mention every stage in Cust’s career), you don’t want either of them out there. Giambi is probably less of a mess in the field, but really, both are on the team for their bats. The question instead becomes, "Which young player with the indeterminable upside are you willing to sacrifice this year so Giambi/Cust can get the at-bats?" Assuming production and health for all four, the A’s are going to have to choose between Daric Barton at first base, and Travis Buck in the outfield.
From www.baseballprospectus.com
The return of Jason Giambi to the green-and-gold fold creates a three-position logjam that contrasts the need to play high-upside youngsters against the defensive limitations of the team's most potent sluggers.
One of them will have to play the field, leaving the team to decide whether to bench first baseman Daric Barton or right fielder Travis Buck, both horrible last year, and neither forecast to produce at levels acceptable for such offense-first positions.
In case it wasn’t clear from my lineup picks; barring injury, I don’t see Barton as a projected part of the 2009 team. Even if the A’s want to keep him on the big-league team (BP recommends AAA), there might not be room for an extra position player. With the rookie brigade of starting pitchers in the rotation, it’s an almost certainty that the A’s will keep the maximum number of pitchers in the ‘pen, even if it means one less player on the bench.
Don’t get me wrong; I think the A’s will--and should--take the chance with Travis Buck as a starter, but the season doesn’t start tomorrow. And judging from recent history, no one can bet on Buck a) staying healthy and b) being good, and this is also assuming that Giambi and Cust do the same. Barton may win a spot yet by default, but I would have to think that he is the current odd man out.
There are worse problems to have, to be sure; like having to start both Barton and Buck no matter what, but the A’s do have to think about the future when making this decision. Is Daric Barton a part of their long-term plans? Do they want to give him the at-bats to see once and for all if he can succeed? Did the A’s pick up Giambi simply because of the availability, or did they take the position he plays into account? What do you think?
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Comments
saw on the A's web site...
I think Geren said that Cust batted much better when he played the outfield. So unless Buck looks much better in spring training, I hate to say it but put buck on the bench (plus you don’t have Cust and Giambi BOTH in the field. plus 4 guys splitting 3 spots isnt that bad….
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
I would chalk the difference up to pure luck/coincidence.
But if it were significant, I would think that the difference would be outweighed by Jack Cust’s vortex of suckitude in the outfield.
"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."
by VORP is too nerdy on Feb 18, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
So you don't believe in the difficulty of DHing?
I don’t know where I stand on the issue, but it seems to be true that hitters are simply worse when DHing.
by thejd44 on Feb 18, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
Some of us discussed this a while back...
I, for one, attribute the difference to being unable to remain athletically engaged in the game. You sit. You hit. Then you sit some more.
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
Yeah, there's some evidence in "The Book"
that there is a DH/pinch hitter penalty.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
I'm curious
Many people move to DH when they’ve experienced some kind of physical decline. Is there much data from people in their prime that split time between DH and the field?
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Good question.
Not sure how they dealt with that, if at all.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
That's an issue
as is the issue of players DHing when they have nagging, “day-to-day” type injuries.
They ended up concluding that some players appeared to have a penalty when DHing, others didn’t, and there was no way to predict who would have one beforehand. (This is in contrast to pinch-hitting, which has a pretty consistent negative effect on everyone.)
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
I actually think that there might be a way to figure this stuff out
It would just be really, really hard.
One of the main problems is that true DHs – Thomas, Thome, etc. – don’t ever play the field so we don’t know what the true “penalty” is. I tend to think that DHing every single day probably won’t have a huge effect on a player, but the occasional “rest” DHing would.
by thejd44 on Feb 19, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
Geren is wrong
Cust was marginally better with the bat when playing the OF.
by thejd44 on Feb 18, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Chavez's backup
When Giambi first came up, he played third. Maybe he can play there a handful of times to spell Chavez?
The Not-So-Casual Fan
NO
Giambi was terrible at third and that was before he got old. He was also really bad in LF when they tried him out there.
Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom
by designatedforassignment on Feb 18, 2009 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
why would Geren take an aging and already bad defensive first baseman and move him to a much more demanding position?
"I think people in this state like BOTH teams," proclaims Nick Aliotti, the Ducks' defensive coordinator. "Except for our hard-core fans, I don't think most Duck fans would have been terribly upset to see Oregon State going to the Rose Bowl."
Another reason he needs to go.
by UOSportsDude on Feb 18, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
well, he was going to move him to SS
but Cust already had dibs on that
what have i got myself into this time... http://damiansthirtyyearchallenge.blogspot.com/
by alea iacta est on Feb 18, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
i wonder how bad a defender at SS he would have to be to outweight the improved offense
Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom
by designatedforassignment on Feb 18, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
I voted Buck on the Bench
But I see this as a very fluid situation. I think there will be enough AB’s to go around for the four of them (especially if Buck can get some games in CF). It will be interesting to see how Buck and Barton handle the pressure, because if one of them starts playing like they did last year they’re going to find AB’s hard to come by.
Of course we could be the A’s we know and love and this will be a moot point because these four will never be healthy at the same time.
I think you have to initially go with somewhat of a rotation
between Buck and Barton, but if one of them gets hot, the other one winds up on the bench. I’m betting Buck has a good year this year. He has too good a swing to not rebound nicely this year. The question is whether he can remain healthy and whether Barton decides to dive in the shallow end of a pool again.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Feb 18, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
I think it would also be good to start with Buck leading off
If he’s “back” you actually have your leadoff hitter, and if not then you slide Sweeney up there and bench/option Buck – but at least start with your best leadoff option leading off and go from there.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm adamantly opposed to any plan which involves playing hunches based on who's "hot"
One of them should be on the team. The other one should be in AAA. Pick one and stick to the plan for at least 2 months (or more likely, until the inevitable injury).
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
The A's are pretty good about that
Aside from the question about whether “being hot” is a real phenomenon, I think the A’s also recognize the bad effect it can have on a young player if just a handful of ABs or IP are placed under the microscope. Usually, if they’re going to give someone a chance it means at least two months.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think "being hot" is real
But I don’t think it indicates anything about future performance.
It’s hard to deny that, at certain times, players are really really good (some of this is luck, but I think there’s something to just feeling better/seeing the ball a bit better). But none of that says that the player will still be “hot” the next week or game or even the next at bat.
by thejd44 on Feb 19, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
I agree - mostly it's because "being hot" (in the baseball sense)
doesn’t usually last weeks, so by the time you see evidence it is likely already on the wane. Jack Cust is a bit of an exception to me in that I can usually see when he starts to turn from a bad stretch to a good one or vice-versa, and I can often predict future performance trends with some accuracy. Crosby, not so much.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The way I see it is
Barton should be on the bench. Buck has proven himself to be a better hitter than Barton. Granted, last year he wasnt very good, but his rookie year was much better than Barton’s rookie year. Also, Barton had the 3rd lowest fielding % last year of all MLB 1st baseman and had the 3rd most errors with 13. Now Giambi wasnt much better, but better nonetheless. Plus, Giambi is a far superior hitter even at this point of his career. Let Giambi handle first this year and have barton learn from him. Let’s not waste Matt Holiday’s only year in Oakland with subpar hitting.
"Chlorophyll?! More like bore-ophyll!"
I'm sorry
But nobody’s gonna agree with you when you use fielding percentage and errors as your only assessment of defensive value.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Feb 18, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
I think Barton should start or be at AAA
what will he be 23? he needs AB’s wherever he plays
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
Actually, Buck grades out very, very well according to FanGraphs' version of UZR.
by thejd44 on Feb 18, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
I think Sweeney is/will be a much better player than Buck.
I’m wrong all the time, but that’s how I (and I think the A’s) see it. In addition to probably the higher batting average, Sweeney also has some pop in his bat; he’s not a middle-of-the-lineup hitter for a good offense, but he could put up some numbers.
"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Buck has vastly more power, probably projects to hit for a higher average, certainly projects a better OBP, and isn't worse enough on defense to make up for it
The only reason I see for preferring Sweeney is health.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
I agree.
Buck has out performed Sweeney on ever level.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
Definitely.
BBG, I don’t really understand your reasoning.
Buck has a career 266/326 AVG (majors/minors). Sweeney is 274/291. Buck has a career isolated power 193/168. Sweeney is 092/114. There is zero pop in Sweeney’s bat. Any potential for extra pop is based on his size and youth. Well, Buck is only one year older than Sweeney, and both are the same size. Buck has demonstrably better plate discipline as well. Every projection system considers Buck to be a better hitter by 30-50 points of OPS. I’ll spot Sweeney some defense, but not nearly enough to make up for the gap in offense. And I’ll spot Sweeney some playing time value (ie health), although he hasn’t exactly been Cal Ripken either.
“But he could put up some numbers” when all the evidence flies in the face of that sounds like the kind of lazy sportswriting you enjoy excoriating, not the kind of thing I am accustomed to seeing you write.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
Also, Buck is more handsome than Sweeney.
I will cut you if you disagree.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
See? Wrong again. :-)
I always though Sweeney would hit for a higher average.
With those numbers, why in the hell were the A’s batting Sweeney third at one point and Buck 1st? Speed only? I assumed the projection was much different.
"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
I'm just wondering *why* you think Sweeney will hit for higher average.
And if you think that advantage is nearly enough to offset the rest of the differences between Buck and Sweeney.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
I think Sweeney will hit for a higher average
because I can’t get over Buck 2008. Honestly, even with the projections, I can’t see Buck as anything but last year. I’m hoping this will change.
"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
I'm in the "Buck will be the better player" camp,
partly because he only has to rediscover half of his rookie season power and speed in order to be a more productive player overall than Sweeney. And if “half” doesn’t literally translate, consider it to mean “halfway between where Buck was in 2007 and where Sweeney was in 2008.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Every projection thinks Sweeney will hit for a higer average
and his skillset/approach is better suited to hitting for a high average than Buck’s.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
I actually think Sweeney will hit for a higher average, too.
Unless he drastically alters his approach, he’s going to be a pretty decent slap hitter. Buck, I think, will hover in the .270 range. He’ll be the better offensive player, but I think Sweeney will have a better average.
by thejd44 on Feb 19, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
And for that matter...
Why is Buck on the chopping block if Barton plays? Why isn’t Sweeney threatened by Buck? If those numbers hold, and for some reason Barton plays first, why isn’t Sweeney’s full-time job in danger?
Or is that just my impression from the A’s; that they think Sweeney is a lock?
"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Sweeney can play CF, Buck can't really.
He might be able to fake it for a little bit, but his instincts and routes look (to me) to be pretty bad. He makes up for it with good speed, but I’m not so sure that will play in center. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone on the A’s disagreed and Sweeney were traded during spring training.
Here’s my prediction: by the second half of 2010, Sweeney will not be the A’s starting CF.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
Here’s my prediction: by the second half of 2010, Sweeney will not be the A’s starting CF.
Really? That’s interesting…
"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
Sweeney is not a very good CFer,
but the platoon of Sweenorfia is several ticks better. That’s my hope: 3/4 Sweeney to 1/4 “Norfy.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
[crosses fingers, hopes that this means Corey Brown is starting instead]
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Andruw Jones
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
Do you think Corey Brown will still be playing CF
when he reaches the bigs?
(That’s a serious question, not rhetorical at all.)
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
TotalZone suggests it's a possibility
He’s certainly fast enough to take the position; the only question is whether he has the secondary skills needed.
I think it’s pretty likely that if he gets to the majors, he’ll be playing center field. A .240/.320/.440 line is good if it’s coming from an average defensive center fielder, not so hot if it’s from a corner. If he has to move to corner OF, he’s going to have to cut down the strikeouts to be successful. Not impossible, but not easy, either.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
I think Brown can hang defensively
But I really have little faith in him ever hitting. That’s my own opinion, but I see him as a guy who, at best, bounces around from team to team like a Ben Broussard (not that they’re similar player types, but that was the first name that popped into my head as that journeyman AAAA type).
I think .240/.320/.440 would be the best Brown could do in the majors. I don’t see it.
by thejd44 on Feb 19, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
There are certainly players with his skillset who've made it work
to varying degrees… Chris Young, Mike Cameron, Curtis Granderson… Brown probably has worse contact skills than any of those guys, but he also has more power than any of them…
I think he has like a 10% chance at turning into a monster player, and maybe another 20% of being an average player in the Young line. But odds are pretty good that he’ll be a bust.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
You can't compare their minor league numbers like that
Sweeney was younger and played in tougher levels than Buck by a wide margin. Buck would not have hit .326 in the minors if he had played high A at 19, AA at 20, and AAA at 21-22 (and in tougher parks than the A’s affiliates.)
Going by ages:
21: Sweeney was somewhat better (.806 ops in AAA international league) Buck: .920 OPS in Vancouver/Kane County (sss))
22: Buck better (.902 ops in Stockton/Midland) vs. Sweeney: (.748 ops in AAA; .598 ops in 49 mlb pas; battled injuries.)
23: Buck substantially better (.851 vs. .753 ops in Oakland)
24: Upcoming year for Sweeney, Buck struggled last year in the majors and minors; battled injuries)
I don’t think Sweeney is better, as I don’t see any upside unless he develops more power which would require a different swing, but I don’t think it’s as clear as you make it out to be.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Feb 18, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Because I'm stuck in 2008, apparently.
I can’t get over how awful Buck was, even with the numbers here.
"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Not in 2008. Buck was as bad as it gets.
"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
They were separated by 10 points of OPS in the majors.
Moreover, Buck hit .296/.396/.402 in the minors.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
Lessover, "Travis Buck" sounds so much more manly than "Ryan Sweeney"
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
That poll could really benefit from semicolons.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
Meh. Semicolons are overrated.
"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
Meh; semicolons are overrated.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
Perfect.
"I know they're the defending World Champs, but they are the whiniest team in baseball" -Rays announcers
by baseballgirl on Feb 18, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Good morning everybody! The way I see it......
Buck has the inside track to the big club, rotating with Cust & Sweeney in the outfield. Barton is only 23 still and I think with his off season surgery to his hip, he’s gonna need some extra time to catch up with his game anyway. All things considered, Giambi is gonna get the lion’s share of AB’s at 1st base, perhaps DH once in a while, while Cust is more full time DH than not.
You know what would be sweet is if Buck comes out of spring training guns a blazing and makes it tough for Geren to fill out a lineup card everyday. Either way, I like that there are options for our boys this year and I ca’nt wait for first pitch
"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."
The Many Wines-Rumi
Buck will surprise
Please no Cust in the outfield. He cost the A’s about a half run every game out there. Buck will bat around 300 with 20 homers and a good OBA if playing most games and stays healthy.
I'm pretty sure I would have a UZR/150 better than -75
which says a lot if you’ve seen me trying to catch a pop fly.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
How bad would a player have to be to cost a team half a run a game?
Would playing Frank Thomas in center field for a full season (Assuming he’s healthy) be that bad?
by thejd44 on Feb 19, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
based on his age I think the A's can wait on deciding if Barton is in future plans
let him go down to AAA, start with Buck.
course, I’m guessing Spring Training will have a significant influence on the decision.
for the record: I actually don’t mind the idea of seeing more Cust in the outfield. I’m curious if he can continue to improve.
Save Rajai Davis
"Cust in the outfield: I’m curious if he can continue to improve?".
I doubt it. Unless he has a skateboard out there with him…..
"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."
The Many Wines-Rumi
I vote for all four
If Buck can marginally play center field I don’t see any reason not to have all 4 in the lineup. As long as Buck and Barton are hitting like big leaguers.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Feb 18, 2009 10:32 AM PST reply actions
Buck and Barton had such impressive minor league..
on base skills. I just cant imagine that they just lost it. They will both be good for use for a long time. They were both brought up to early IMO. Just as long as they get full time ABs they will be fine. Once Holliday and gone either mid season or next year Buck will be playing full time. And once Giambi breaks down or isnt on the team next year Barton will be manning 1st. At least till Doolittle gets here.
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
play 'em all
Duke’s is a bit groundball prone, and Eveland really is, so when they start play Cust in RF, Giambi at DH, and Barton at 1B
Gallagher and Braden are a bit more flybally, so when they start play Giambi at 1B, Cust at DH, Buck in RF
Really Eveland is the only truly extreme of the four pitchers, but at least there is a basis for playing time. With all four hitters being left-handed, there’s no real offensive platoon, so run them out there based on the best defensive alignment. They’d all know what to expect on a given day, i.e. less worry about looking at a lineup card everyday (though that should only concern Buck and Barton). Straight L/R platoons kind of suck anyway because they’re uneven in playing time, and you really don’t get to see if one or both can improve against a same-handed pitcher. This at least gives them both an opportunity to break out.
I'm starting to like our bullpen......Wuertz and all.
I like this idea
I would add that since Buck has had a bit more success already at the ML level than Barton that he should also play whenever the 5th starter (whomever that might be) starts.
I like important stuff just as much as the next guy, but please, for a little while, deliver us from meaning, baseball. That's your greatest glory, and we thank you for it very, very much. -- Craig Calcaterra
im feeling a bit flybally myself...
bratwurst and beer
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
Also, when you play Cust RF, Giambi DH and Barton 1B you have Buck as a late inning replacement
When you have Cust DH, Giambi 1B and Buck RF then you have Barton as a late inning replacement.
I think there will plenty of time for all four to play and get their innings in.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
TRADE CUST
Play Giambi, Buck, & Barton. Either Buck or Barton will both succeed (yay!) or only one of them will (hopefully Barton lives up to the “next-great-thang” hype and Buck is a serviceable backup centerfielder and platoonable corner outfielder. Cust gets us a solid middle reliever or draft picks. Cust is playing on borrowed time and its only a matter of time before his AAAA quality of play is exposed for what it is. TRADE CUST, keep the youngins and the oldie.
MJP - Go A's - give Bobby one more year
-1
"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com
see, that's the problem
Cust is playing on borrowed time and its only a matter of time before his AAAA quality of play is exposed for what it is.
this just isn’t true, but, whilst this is prevailing opinion, there is no chance of getting value for him, and hence, no point in trading him.
what have i got myself into this time... http://damiansthirtyyearchallenge.blogspot.com/
by alea iacta est on Feb 18, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
On the upside...
… it makes it easier to keep him around for reasonable money. Hey! Our first retained free agent!
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
Personally, I doubt Cust will be much worth retaining beyond 2011
As it is, I think the team is perfectly set up to transition from him to Carter as the “defensively challenged slugger du jour” at that point.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Are you predicting the usual "big guy with old player skills" decline?
Where art thou, Mo Vaughn?
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
To me it's that his salary will pass his value
in the next few years. Guys with power numbers and RBI (if this team could score any runs) will get overpaid both in arbitration and on the open market.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
Yep
Cust has enough irrelevant aesthetic deficiencies that he’ll probably never be drastically overpaid, but a combination of “salary increasing to match contribution” and “declining contribution” means he’s not likely to be re-upped.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
I think Adam Dunn's recent contract, while partially an economy-driven lower-than-expected deal, shows that teams just don't like guys like that much anymore
I could see Cust being affordable after 2011, but I also think the A’s will find somebody else who can do something similar for less. Whether that’s Carter or some other Cust-like minor league guy, I don’t know.
by thejd44 on Feb 19, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Epic Fail
i refer you to 9custs’ sig line
Trading Cust may be a valid proposal but the “reasoning” that you cite is ludicrous.
Some of the most violent things I’ve ever seen were at Raiders games. And I’ve been to jail. - leopold bloom
by designatedforassignment on Feb 18, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
When users I don't recognize post stuff like this, I'm assuming it's intentional trolling from now on
by thejd44 on Feb 18, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
Especially if their user name is
“Irritable Bowel Syndrome later.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
For the record, Buck chooses himself
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
i think he ended up like that after he ran into a wall
what have i got myself into this time... http://damiansthirtyyearchallenge.blogspot.com/
by alea iacta est on Feb 18, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
which reminds me of the t-shirt Nick Swisher was sporting
while on the DL for six weeks after separating his shoulder on the right field wall:
“I fought the wall, and the wall won”
which is why I miss that guy...
I’d love to see him back here someday when he’d fit in the puzzle. Obviously, not this year, but I got a feeling that dude’s gonna wear a lot of jerseys before his time is through…
"The magical goblins who live in my shower told me that Bobby Crosby's gonna have a good year this year" - The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 18, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
IBSlater, I'm not mad at you....
I’m just dissapointed
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
don't be dissapointed
and i’m no troll – whatever that is. sorry to all the Custlovers out there for dissing your boy but he isn’t fit for the lineup we have now. we have legitimate big league hitters with some hopefuls behind them. Cust will look mighty pedestrian when he’s striking out more because pitchers are going after him to avoid setting up Holliday and Giambi. I think any 1-3 starter in the AL can take Cust 3 times a game. He’s not that young so he’s not part of whatever core we’re developing. He’s a huge defensive liability (like the kid that only got to play when you were winning or losing by a lot and he’d play rightfield with the centerfielder shaded wayyyyy over level of bad). Doesn’t everyone cringe when Cust is shagging even the most routine flyball?
For all you Custians, I think Crosby will be what we need but I’ve been wrong every year since the first about him, so you may all adjust how much credit you give me based on that – but Bobby will kill 2009.
And if the A’s ever fielded 9 Custs (or 9Hattebergs, etc.) i might actually lose interest in the best team in baseball…
MJP - Go A's - give Bobby one more year
That seems pretty unfair to the Rays.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I will agree with you on this...
When Cust is fielding it looks like he’s got a glove in one hand and a beer in the other. But he is dollar for dollar our best offensive player IMHO and the A’s value him much more than any other team, so we would never get equal value.
Crosby will kill in ’09. He will kill the air molecules where he thought that fastball (turned out to be slider) was going to cross the plate.
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
It's just unfortunate that it looks like the beer is in his left hand.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Cust = 2nd best hitter on the team
That fits.
by thejd44 on Feb 19, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Me likey Buck
And since, arguably, the best defensive and offensive alignments feature Buck in them then I’m a happy man. I feel it’s more important for Buck to succeed than Barton in terms of the long term plan. If Barton fails then we have Carter and Doolittle behind him. Once Holliday is gone we’re left with Sweeney, Cunningham, and Buck as far as top tier outfield prospects are concerned. We already don’t know if Cunningham will succeed and if Sweeney doesn’t improve then it becomes very important for Buck to do well and anchor that outfield for years to come.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Just a thought (and why I voted for option #3):
I’m trying to remember the last time the A’s had 4 players for 3 spots and the problem didn’t solve itself without someone stagnating on the bench. Seems like to get 3 spots filled, you generally need 4 guys.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
YES!
(in a Marv Albert tone, except not wearing panties beneath my slacks… oh, wait… spoke too soon)
"The magical goblins who live in my shower told me that Bobby Crosby's gonna have a good year this year" - The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 18, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
Can I have them back?
Thanks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
each plays roughly 75% of the time, which should be fine
and if one gets hurt or goes into extreme charles thomas mode, then you bump up the time of the other 3. i’m not sure where the goat and sulfur fit in. {by the way, do Giambi and Cust really suck that much on D? do i just happen to remember the few times things went fine with them on D?..}
not sure if it’s a factor, but Cust usually exits around the 7th inning if he’s on D and the A’s are winning, so that’s more time for Buck. the same can be done with Giambi, giving more time to Bunton..
Hi ho.
I voted for sending Barton to AAA
I think whoever isn’t playing needs to be getting regular ABs, and thus should be starting in AAA. Barton vs. Buck, well, Buck has had more past ML experience and success, and that gives me more faith in him being able to put up major league numbers this season. Barton will need time to adjust, and he can get that later when someone on our roster inevitably dies and we need him.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
This will likely happen in April without an option to AAA
just by Barton not being ready for major league game action right away.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
question
Who is the backup 1B if Barton goes to AAA? Sweeney? Bowen?
More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis
by Athletics fan and runner on Feb 18, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
Hannahan/Baisley?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or Dillon... or Bozied... or Mark Ellis, for that matter...
I’m sure he could do a creditable imitation of a 1B for a day or two.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
I was at a game when Ellis played 1B
Blowout loss to Texas in 06. Zito got shelled.
This really is not an issue give that 1B is the easiest major league position to play defensively.
More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis
by Athletics fan and runner on Feb 21, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
Play it out
It’s unlikely that all four of those players will be having great years. Especially considering Buck was unhealthy and Barton is coming off surgery.
and Giambi's old, and Cust stricksout!!!!111 too much
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Between Buck/Barton
Once should start, the other should play regularly in AAA until there’s an injury.
I’d prefer Buck in RF, Cust at DH, Giambi at 1st, and Barton in AAA.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
Of course everyone would prefer Giambi at first
But he can’t play there every day and Barton will have to get significant time there. When Giambi starts at first Buck can get some time in RF but I expect that Cust will be in RF more than Buck. Sweeney will play CF most of the time but I expect Rajai to get some starts there as well as the A’s seem to like him and his speed is very handy.
If Barton goes to AAA, who is going to play at first half the time? Cust?
Barton to Sac, Play Buck, but where?
The reasonably obvious solution is to send Barton to Sacramento, Giambi at 1st, Buck in right. Until Chavez’s body fails again – then move Buck to 3rd (see today’s A’s website for comments), bring up Barton for 1st, Cust in right, Giambi at DH.
Or trade Cust for a right handed power hitter and platoon the dh’s.
Or trade Cust and Barton for a rh power hitter
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