Fantastic Michael Lewis article on statistics in basketball

by El Payo on Feb 15, 2009 3:34 AM PST Comment 40 comments

I know this is far off topic for a baseball-centric site, but I got a huge kick out of this article which follows the Houston Rockets' Shane Battier and the connection to Bill James' statistical analysis of baseball and how much data has influenced sports. I think you will too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Particularly interesting is how the seemingly intangible part of Battiers' game is so important. And yet might actually be quantifiable as well.

UPDATE: I didn't realize this had been DLD'd/discussed already, but I'll leave this up as some people are discovering the article through this post. Thanks for adding the hotlink Nico.

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Most excellent find

It’s a long article but well worth the read; so many nuggets. As I was reading I could not help thinking Ce qu’on voit et ce qu’on ne voit pas and I don’t even know French.

This was his moment, the one great players are said to live for, when everyone knows he’s going to take the shot, and he takes it anyway.

Gotta enjoy Lewis’s nuance and humor.

Please consider actually making a hyperlink so that more people would be inclined to click it, El Payo.

by LowcountryJoe on Feb 15, 2009 5:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

rec'd

"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane

by Cutthemullet on Feb 15, 2009 5:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I always hated Battier

He was a little cocky in college and had that elitist coach K look on his face, but he always won games. Good read

Clear its radiance shine...

by ATarHeel on Feb 15, 2009 10:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

As a Carolina fan, Battier was one guy I didn't hate so much.

He always seemed really bright to me. And a good guy. I’d much rather save my Duke hatred for JJ Redick or Coach K.

by thejd44 on Feb 16, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I just edited it to add the link,

so more lazy people can read it!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 15, 2009 10:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Its already in Friday's DLD anyway

by green star oakland on Feb 15, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

already (working) linked and discussed here.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 15, 2009 10:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not if you don't read DLDs as I and many others do (don't)

I’m glad this was made into a fanpost – based on it already being recommended five times, I guess I’m not the only one!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 15, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

you’re right, it wasn’t already linked and discussed… because you and others don’t read the DLDs.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 15, 2009 11:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It was linked and discussed, but that fact isn't mutually exclusive

with the notion that “it should stand alone as a fanpost.” There’s a difference between the potato you have in a stew and having a baked potato. My God, that was deep.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 15, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

“Yeah, I ate the potato. You got a problem with that?”

Baked potato

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Feb 15, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I skip a lot of DLDs because they often quickly get into heavy off-topic area

I have no problem with someone posting something that was in a DLD as long as they have something specific to say about it as a stand-alone topic.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Feb 15, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"they often quickly get into heavy off-topic area"

this article is about basketball………………

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 15, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No it's not

It’s about sports, athletes…

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 15, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

you're going to love my series of diaries about the trinidadian cricket team

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 15, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

...and the gamblers that love them

"There is a sense of tragic destiny associated with people who have large noses." --Bucky Wunderlick

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 15, 2009 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It had better not steal ideas from my upcoming Tuesday post

about Trinidadian cricket. I will be SO MAD.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 15, 2009 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I am aware of that

There is still the connection to the author of Moneyball. It’s not like it’s a completely random writer.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Feb 15, 2009 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

here's another on-topic article by the author of moneyball

and there’s even a photo of a famous athlete!

What an old anecdote about Mo Udall in the hospital reveals about McCain’s character.
By Michael Lewis
Posted Wednesday, April 9, 2008

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 15, 2009 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So nice to see someone get excited about McCain

The only times I felt the slightest bit of enthusiam for the man was when he told Michigan voters that free trade was here to stay and that their automobile assembly jobs were likely not to come back. Politicians just don’t typically say things that are very unpopular in those regions that they’re campaigning in; it takes a serious set of stones. There were a very small number of other specific things that he would say that did it for me, too, but I’ll leave it at…

by LowcountryJoe on Feb 15, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was pretty excited when he gave his concession speech.

(It was about hot dogs and garlic fries.)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 15, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't excited to see the electoral vote as lopsided as it was.

That and the huge majorities in the House and Senate by Democrats. I’m more at ease when the political composition is more balanced and there’s a tension between pols. I wasn’t all that happy from 2001 through 2006. The only saving grace is that the Senate was tight, especially with some moderate Republicans. Now, pffft. Now there’s no reason at all why Progressivism wont be fully implimented for a long period to come— and I’m not really at peace with all that.

by LowcountryJoe on Feb 15, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP TALKING DIRECTLY ABOUT POLITICS?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 16, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

valiant effort, Nico

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 16, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks - I figure "all caps" makes the point better written

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 16, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It would, of course, help if you stopped egging him on.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Feb 16, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's some popcorn

Now shush and enjoy the show!

by thejd44 on Feb 16, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Except I didn't - I replied to his post

with clear humor/pun, and wouldn’t have brought politics up in the first place had the comment above it not already been there.

The kind of “political comment” I made is exactly the kind the mods think IS appropriate on AN. Both comments around it are the kind we are trying to avoid.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 16, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Great writing

Michael Lewis is a great writer. Just a pleasure to read.

Electricity is actually made up of extremely tiny particles called electrons, that you cannot see with the naked eye unless you have been drinking. -Dave Barry

by davebenfremont on Feb 15, 2009 12:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He really is amazing

The article reads like a mystery novel built around an underdog character with magical powers. I wish I could write like that.

by Ran on Feb 15, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting team-specific

followup to the lewis article….

"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin

by Hot Cup Joe on Feb 15, 2009 1:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Wow, that was like reading Moneyball all over again.

I just couldn’t stop reading. Great article.

by Rocktopus on Feb 15, 2009 3:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It is a good one, but

he does repeat a long-discredited truism:

“It turns out there is no statistic that a basketball player accumulates that cannot be amassed selfishly.”

Rick Barry (who else?) put the knife to this one long ago, noting that there is one: free throw percentage!

"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin

by Hot Cup Joe on Feb 15, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess, but any application of that stat is potentially selfish

Free throw percentage does nothing to win games— it has to be multiplied by some number of actual free throw attempts.

I mean, if you put it in those terms, field goal percentage isn’t selfish either.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 15, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thought this one might get a

rise out of you. I have to say i agree with rick – if someone is incentivized toward higher FG% they could easily make a net negative decision to forgo an outside shot that was lower probability but still worth taking. Whereas FT%, granted your caveat that the player has to earn a foul shot first, has no comparable tradeoff.

"...in baseball you wear a cap." -- george carlin

by Hot Cup Joe on Feb 15, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs