Report: Angels Sign Abreu
by athleticsBB4life on Feb 11, 2009 7:34 AM PST
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PrintFree agent outfielder Bobby Abreu and the Angels have an agreement on a one-year deal, SI.com has learned. The deal is worth a little more than $5 million and also includes incentives.
Abreu represents a nice replacement for Mark Teixeira, the Angels free-agent first baseman who signed with the Yankees, Abreu's old team. The Yankees decided against offering Abreu arbitration since he made $16 million last year and could have matched mark that in the arbitration process, based on his consistently excellent numbers, so no draft choice is attached to an Abreu signing.
At least it wasn't Adam Dunn. This move tightens up the AL West IMO.
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OH NOOOOO
WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE… SOMEONE GET BOBBY CROSBY SOME STEROIDS STAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by jeffro on Feb 11, 2009 7:39 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Heyman wrote...
He is a solid defensive right fielder whose one perceived flaw, a reluctance to go near the wall, became an issue last year, especially in the media.
Dude…
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
Hey man listens to Al Leiter and Harold Reynolds too much
This si right off a debate they had on MLB Network with Heyman sitting there and listening. It was maybe 3 weeks ago…. what a joke.
I think this puts them way ahead
But it really doesn’t matter, I still believe that no matter how good we did we were going to trade Holliday during the deadline.
I know all the statistical projections say that this signing gives the Angels only 1 or 2 more wins, but still the Angels are pretty good at exceeding statistical expectations. I say we now hold on and don’t sing Cabrera and start thinking about Mazarro and Anderson pitching after the All Star game. Cahil will still need more minors pitching but we’ll see
Clear its radiance shine...
You are ready to throw in the towel already???
It’s only February, there is a long season ahead, heck, there is a long spring training ahead. Vlad is way past his prime and the Angels are 1 or 2 injuries away from being average at best.
And I know the same can be said for us, but I think we need to see how the year plays out. It’s waaaaaay to early to throw in the towel because the Angels signed an aging OF that can’t play defense.
I'm not throwing the towel I'm being realistic
If we go crazy and sing Cabrera to a 2 year deal we could have serious flexibility problems next year. Plus I rather have 2 big league ready prospects next year than a draft pick. The thought of having 2 of our 3 main pitching prospects ready for next season plus 2 new good ones (from Holliday) should be the plane.
And like Trainman said, pitching wise there’s no match, we have a bunch of 4-5 guys and they have MLB ready pitchers with good upside.
Clear its radiance shine...
Any prospects drafted with Holliday's picks
will not be relevant before, at the extreme earliest, 2011 (more likely 2012 or 2013).
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
They are quite a way ahead in the SP department
This addition helps.
Our SP is very average and the major weak link. This will change as youngsters are inserted and mature but will not happen overnight and nor should it be expected to. We can hope and pray that one or two of our Anderson/Cahill/Mazarro trio arrive when ready and perform above expectations.
The Abreu factor
It improves their offense so now where does he play? Rf than Vlad is DH. Figgins goes back to third. Wood/Riveria without a position. Slight improvement but they still lack power. Without the steroids Abreu is only a 15 homerun guy at the most more around 10.
wait, what?
when has Abreu been accused of taking anything?
I'm starting to like our bullpen......Wuertz and all.
by scatterbrian on Feb 11, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
touché
I'm starting to like our bullpen......Wuertz and all.
by scatterbrian on Feb 11, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
early in his career
After houston traded him because lack of power he gained a stroke. I remember when steve finley came up and his scouting report was he would be lucky to hit a ball to the wall. He was described as a brett butler clone same as Abreu.
In my opinion, this makes the Angels a better team.
But that’s one crowded OF. Matthews isn’t all that good either. What are they paying that guy?
Also, if Abreu was had for $5 million plus incentives, I think that Oakland overpaid for Giambi. Isn’t Giambi already getting some cash from the Yankees not exercising their option on him? Even though Oakland has a crowded OF/1B/DH, I think I would have prefered Abreu at one year — and at that price — to Giambi’s two-year deal. That might be just me, though.
Matthews is getting 10 or 11 per
"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane
by Cutthemullet on Feb 11, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions
and I think that is in fact just you
"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane
by Cutthemullet on Feb 11, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
agreed Mullet Man...
"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."
The Many Wines-Rumi
You do think that that's fact?
That I am the only one who thinks so?
Didn’t Giambi platoon somewhat last year and bat 6th (with Posada out) or 7th. Didn’t Abreu bat 3rd in that Yankee lineup? I’m not suggesting that Abreu is definitely the better fit but what I am suggesting is, in my view, that Abreu is a better lineup presence.
by LowcountryJoe on Feb 11, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
Giambi usually batted 5th ... (98 games)
but I would say that you are right, that the New York Yankees might very well agree with you that Abreu is a better option than Giambi.
I disagree with your and the Yankees’ assessment, but that’s no biggie …
And the fact that G was getting a bunch of cash from the Yankees has no bearing on the contract he signed with the A’s (or potentially could have signed with another team). It does not give him any obligation or incentive to sign for less (a player who has made $125m in salary — not counting various incentives or endorsements — does not NEED the money, one way or the other)
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I agree with this point
And the fact that G was getting a bunch of cash from the Yankees has no bearing on the contract he signed with the A’s (or potentially could have signed with another team).
I was simply trying to make the point, rather clumsily, that if cash was any kind of factor to that contract [and I do agree that it likely wasn’t much of a factor at all] that his first year comes at somewhat of a discount and the second year is more of his true asking price — true even when considering an additional year of aging.
by LowcountryJoe on Feb 11, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
Giambi is a better fit for the A's than Abreu, by far
1. G plays a position of (perceived) need, or at least needed insurance
2. He’s a better locker room/personality fit
Both signings make sense for both teams.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Feb 11, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
The Giambi signing doesn't make a ton of sense for the A's. I've seen all the arguments.
Unless you think Barton is just as bad as he was last year for the next two years, it’s a silly move that forces either Giambi or Cust into the field, blocks young players, and wastes (not much) money.
by thejd44 on Feb 11, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
Signing Abreu would force Abreu or Cust into the field, block young players, and waste more money
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Wait!
Signing Abreu in addition to Giambi would waste more money, I agree. But signing Abreu instead of Giambi — assuming the starts would have aligned the same way back during when Giambi re-signed with Oakland — would waste money? How do you figure that?
by LowcountryJoe on Feb 11, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
Giambi: $4 million
Abreu: $5 million+, with incentives
See?
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Giambi has .5 mil in incentives as well
Plus he’s a two year committment at $11.5 m (potentially 13.5 if he meets his PAs). If Oakland does not exercise its option, they pay him 1.25. That’s really the same as a 1-year 5.25 with his own incentives – and one to two year blocking of Barton.
by LowcountryJoe on Feb 11, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Until we actually see the Abreu number, it's hard to compare the deals directly
but the option clearly represents a “win” for Oakland over and above a 1 year/5.25M contract.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
So what you wrote earlier about blocking younger players...
…is not an issue for you at this time? In fact the option year is preferable, in your opinion? Because if its Abreu and not Giambi, Abreu plays OF while Cust DHs and Barton plays 1B.
Now, let’s assume that the Abreu contract incentives are not all that cumbersome and further assume that they are roughly $1.5 m more than Giambi’s AND that they’re just as obtainable: the deals are still very close, are they not? How would have an Abreu signing (IN PLACE OF a Giambi signing) been a “waste of more money”? Not only that but it’s very possible that the incentives Abreu has to achieve would be more performance-oriented than just meeting plate appearances [not neccessarily discounting the fact that more plate appearances may mean that a player is actually producing and therefore getting much playing time]?
I’m going to be stubborn on this one because, no, I really don’t SEE where the waste of money is with a hypothetical Abreu signing. And I still contend that Abreu would have been a better signing – he’s some three years younger, plays a more skilled position, and has had far more playing time over the last few years than has Giambi.
by LowcountryJoe on Feb 11, 2009 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
Why can't I quit you?
So what you wrote earlier about blocking younger players…
…is not an issue for you at this time?
Either one of them “blocks a young player,” and Buck is more advanced than Barton is.
In fact the option year is preferable, in your opinion?
Yes, in fact, having options is better than not having options.
the deals are still very close, are they not? How would have an Abreu signing (IN PLACE OF a Giambi signing) been a "waste of more money"?
Am I missing something here? Last time I checked, “more” didn’t have to be multiple millions more. Even if it’s only 1 mil, why waste it? Abreu does not project as a better player next season.
Not only that but it’s very possible that the incentives Abreu has to achieve would be more performance-oriented than just meeting plate appearances
Not really. It’s either PAs or games played.
he’s some three years younger
Yet, not actually any better.
Plays a more skilled position
Like a gazelle… a blind, brain-damaged gazelle that has recently had its hind leg bitten off by a cheetah.
and has had far more playing time over the last few years than has Giambi.
Exaggerations notwithstanding, he has played a somewhat larger number of games. And yet his wins added are only marginally higher because Giambi was hurt for much of 2007. Currently, Giambi is not hurt.
Cheaper + same or better (CHONE likes Giambi to be 10 runs better at the plate) ability + blocks a younger/worse player. Giambi was the better deal.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
I wasn't aware 1B/DH was a position of need.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
this offense is so great..
who needs abreu…buck/sweeney will give them 600 ab’s each!!
probably doubt abreu was even high on the A’s among his choices
what will dunn get…7-8mill?
Given his defense, Abreu probably should be backing up Buck, not the other way around
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Meh
If he’s forced to play the field then there’s no change in how far (or behind) ahead the Angels are compared to us. He’s another year older and at this age now a year slower.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
He’s another year older...
…but Rock and Roll never forgets.
by LowcountryJoe on Feb 11, 2009 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
"To old to rock n roll-
and to young to die…."
"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."
The Many Wines-Rumi
here's hoping A's make several more moves
reyes interest reported yesterday, did they attend sisco rescheduled workout yesterday?
i think well find out soon if cabrera is willing to swallow his pride for 3-5mill
i’d still take a chance on mulder if his workout is decent
Going into the offseason with the Angels
linked to possibly signing Teixeira, Sabathia and other top free agents, we should be pretty happy that their entire offseason haul was Fuentes, Abreu and Rivera. Could have been a lot worse.
Not terribly concerned
Either directly, or by proxy, Abreu pushes another poor defensive player into the field. He’s still a solid hitter, but he hasn’t been in Texiera territory for a few seasons now.
by CapgrasDelusion on Feb 11, 2009 9:40 AM PST reply actions
with your username, how do you use the phrase "by proxy" and not mention ...
A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@
Munchausen himself was keen on contriving illnesses for himself.
The “by proxy” syndrome is indeed far more interesting to someone like myself, whose username betrays an unusual fascination with paranoid delusions and other neurological oddities.
by CapgrasDelusion on Feb 11, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
Of course, what I should have said was that your leaving it out meant that an impostor had usurped your username
A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@
Teixeira v. Abreu v. Giambi
Isn’t it kind of amazing that these three left-handed hitters entered the market this offseason, and one of them got a $180M contract, while the other two combined for less than $10 million?
It’s interesting how the top of the market was completely unaffected, and how much the middle and even upper-middle tier has dropped.
I mean, all three of those guys are good left-handed hitters who play at the lower rungs of the defensive spectrum. And it’s not impossible that Tex will have an .820 OPS next year and Giambi and Abreu out-perform him at the plate.
(I realize that’s an overly simplistic analysis, but it for me it highlights the amazing disparity in their contracts).
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Feb 11, 2009 9:53 AM PST reply actions
Really?
I mean, all three of those guys are good left-handed hitters who play at the lower rungs of the defensive spectrum.
Technically Tex is a switch hitter (but of course would bat lefty more often). My real quibble is the fact that you seem to imply that Tex is as bad a glove man as Giambi and Abreu. This is exactly the opposite of what I thought, my understanding was that Tex was always rated to be an above average, if not top flight defensive first baseman. Is this not the case?
No
Saying that he plays at the lower end of the defensive spectrum doesn’t mean he plays his position poorly. It means he plays one of the least difficult postions.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
Ah, that makes more sense
I did not interpret it that way, but that is probably what NSJ menat.
I still think it is a bit misleading as Tex offers a very positive value with his glove, while Giambi and Abreu hurt their teams defensively by being in the field.
True
But a good first baseman doesn’t help his team nearly as much as a good catcher, shortstop, or centerfielder. The demands of the position aren’t that great in comparison to the other positions on the diamond. If I may borrow from Major Winchester, being the best fielding first baseman is sort of like being the best ballerina in Galveston.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
What a weird signing that makes me really happy.
Abreu, at this point, is the antithesis of what the Angels want. He’s a poor base stealer who walks a lot, has some power, and plays terrible defense.
What this deal does is improve the Angels offense some, but it really kills an outfield defense that wasn’t very good in the first place. They now have to play either Vlad or Abreu in right field when both should be DHing. Abreu’s walks have dropped by FIFTY from 2006 to 2008 (he had 2 more PA in 2006). That’s a bad sign.
This move just doesn’t change my opinion of the 2009 season. The A’s just need a little health luck and some of their young players to develop as they’ve shown they might and they’ll be fine.
by thejd44 on Feb 11, 2009 9:54 AM PST reply actions
I imagine Abreu will probably end up DHing most of the time
since Vlad has refused to fill that role. And I think it does improve their offense more than just a little bit — Abreu is a solid high-OBP lefty bat in a very weak and heavily right-handed lineup.
I suppose this will put Figgins on the trading block now.
"Good or bad, I don't know. This is awesome." ~Nick Swisher after being asked if it was wise to poor beer on Lew Wolfe's head.
Why does it have to be Abreu or Vlad in rightfield?
Why couldn’t they play Abreu in leftfield? Maybe I’m forgetting someone but aren’t Abreu’s competitors for playing time Sarge Jr., Reggie Willits and Juan Rivera?
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
Oh man, I would LOVE if they played both Abreu and Vlad in the outfield.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
It wouldn't be as bad as Grieve in left, Long in center and Stairs in right.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
Ya know, it might be.
Ok, not the center field part since Hunter is about average, but Grieve/Stairs is about equal to Abreu/Vlad defensively.
by thejd44 on Feb 11, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
Abreu vs. Anderson
2008 Value, courtesy of FanGraphs:
Batting, Fielding, Replacement, Position, Run Value, Win Value
Abreu: 22.7, -25.2, 22.8, -7.5, 12.8, 1.3
Anderson: -0.7, 6.2, 19.8, -10.5, 14.8, 1.5
Anderson was slightly more valuable last season than Abreu, who’s defense is so atrocious that it almost cancels out his contributions at the plate. So really, this marginally improves the Angels only if Abreu is a strict DH.
I'm starting to like our bullpen......Wuertz and all.
Love this comment on the SI site:
A “solid” defensive OF? If you go to any defensive metric he is average at best, and below average in most. The plus/minus system used for the fielding bible awards showed he was 2nd worst in the Majors finishing ahead of Brad Hawpe. Interestingly enough, he cost more runs than Pat Burrell, Raul Ibanez, Manny Ramirez and Jack Cust. Quite a list of “solid” defenders.
Heyman, stop using players performances from 2004 as a proxy for current evaluation. It’s insulting. The only people that following along with the Hot Stove stuff at this point are big fans of the game and know whether a guy is good, mediocre or bad at a particular facet of the game. Do the research (it took me 10 mins to find it this morning) and then write your article.
Ouch.
"Warm Springs Infernal" - FSU, 2/6/09 DLD
I'd like to get that Alyssa that the shirt is wearing
Mrs doctorK, however, would NOT approve.
"Warm Springs Infernal" - FSU, 2/6/09 DLD
I'm thrilled
Abreu’s a good hitter whose offensive attributes are nearly canceled out by his defensive limitations, and his signing means the Angels will not sign his more scary version, Adam Dunn. Works for me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
this is what I thought
THe Angles were going to do something. so this is the least helpful signing that tehy could make, in my opinion.
I think
What it shows us is that Dunn is holding out for a much larger contract than this one
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Feb 11, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
It's a small upgrade, but, overall, I call this good news ...
it means they are much less likely to sign a player who would represent a meaningful upgrade (Adam Dunn) …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I don't think Abreu is very much worse than Dunn
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
In 2008, he was
His wOBA was 15 points lower than Abreu’s, his defense was actually a few runs WORSE than Dunn’s, and being 35 this year, he’s got a great chance of drop-off than Dunn.
I don't think his defense is actually worse; it's probably a bit better
Their hitting has been fairly close when you keep in mind that Dunn plays in the worst division in baseball and Abreu in the best. Dunn is a better hitter, but not a lot better.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Dunn seems to be heading to the Nationals on a 2 year deal
Details/announcement Thursday pending a physical.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Horrible OF
What this means is that on any given day, two of Guerrero, Rivera and Abreu will have to play the outfield. Probably the least crappy fielder of the three is Guerrero, but sending their injury-prone best hitter out into the field night after night is fraught with problems for the bad guys. Looking at HH, there seemed to be some feeling that Hunter could cover for it, which is a fascinating idea given that Hunter was 11 runs below average in CF last year.
Basically, if a team can hit it out of the infield, they can beat the Angels.
Rivera doesn't belong in the mix with Guerrero and Abreu
Rivera is a back-up, especially with the new shuffle.
Vlad has resisted being the DH in the past, I doubt he’ll be more agreeable this year considering his pending FA. If Abreu is the DH he’ll be a positive contributor to that line-up.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Uh, he IS in the mix
And it’s not really a mix. That’s three players for three positions (LF, RF, DH). Who else are they gonna play in the OF, Figgins? I’ll take the drop in offensive production from Rivera to Figgins any day, but I’m not counting on them to be that stupid.
Rivera is a subpar defender in LF, Hunter at this stage of his career is a subpar defender in CF, and Vlad is a subpar defender in RF, and he’s holding himself together with spit and bailing wire. Every game he plays in the field he risks further injury.
Did something happen to Matthews while I was ignoring SoCal?
Rivera has been a part time player his whole career, my objection is to your lumping him Rivera with two guys who are going to be in the starting line-up every day, barring injury.
Rivera will be fighting Matthews, Willits and maybe Figgins (if Wood takes over at 3B) for playing time in LF.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Matthews is injured right now and not expected back until May
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Lucky break for the Angels
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Abreu is a minor upgrade
There’s a great write up on it at Fangraphs. I think that this is basically a marginal upgrade, and Abreu was mainly signed because a) he’s dirt cheap and b) it’s a PR thing. It at least helps add a big name, and perception (to the fanbase) is more important than actual added value with this signing.
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
well we had a nice run
0-0, in contention almost until pitchers and catchers reported…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
I think
the difference between Abreu and Anderson’s production at the plate is negligible, not to mention, Abreu’s well documented offensive decline is only going pick up pace at an exponential rate with the Angels lineup batting around him as opposed to the Yankees….
WRAA, 2006-2008:
Anderson -1.7
Abreu 75.4
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Well, on a scale of -10 to 1 million, they're pretty close.
by thejd44 on Feb 11, 2009 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
look at the differences in the lineups they played in
by oakballnack on Feb 12, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Why?
It doesn’t have any affect on Abreu’s ability. He may score and drive in fewer runs with players of lesser ability around him but that says more about Abreu’s teammates than it does about Abreu.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
i love how some people explain away huge differences in performance based on lineups, while others (including probably some of those same people) place great value on stats like runs and rbis.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
anderson
was also injured for significant portions of ‘06 and ’07, to qualify your above little metric. if you look at ’08 alone, they’re pretty damn similar.
by oakballnack on Feb 12, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
obviously last year is the most important, but you can’t just ignore previous years. and if anderson was injured for significant portions of two of the last three years, that tells you something about how likely he is to be healthy this year.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Anderson was a below average hitter when he was playing
More playing time would just have widened the gap.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
explain that please -
because in 2007 when he played in only 108 games, he hit .297/.336/.492 – and while those aren’t MIND blowing numbers, by any means, they are well above average. That same year Abreu hit .283/.369/.445 – so if Anderson had played more that year at somewhere near the same level he showed in 108 games, how would that have “widened the gap”?
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