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Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

Staturday: Baserunning & CF Defense

The 2009 Bill James Handbook has a section that tries to rate the baserunning skills of major league ballplayers. I say “tries to rate” because even Mr. James acknowledges the crudeness of the analysis. What they do is look at how many times a runner on 1st base advances to 3rd base on a single to the OF; how many times a runner on 2nd base scores on a single to the outfield; how many times a runner on 1st scores on a double. In another category they look to see how often a baserunner moves up on a wild pitch or a passed ball or defensive indifference, sac flies and balks. They look at how many times a player gets thrown out trying to advance or gets doubled off. They look at how often a player hits into a double play. All this data is compared to the MLB average of each category and points are awarded based on how more/less successful a player is vs. the average. Sitting above the average earns a player points, below average costs points.

 

Stolen base prowess is considered in a slightly different manner. A player earns 1 point for every stolen base and loses 2 points for every caught stealing. So a player who steals 15 bases and gets caught 5 times earns 5 points. The points a player earns or loses as a thief are equal to the points a player earns for his baserunning (BR) skills, it’s just the manner in which the points are calculated are different.

 

Like the man said, the analysis is crude. Not all singles are created equally, as a groundball single to Manny is going to present a baserunner with more opportunities vs. a line drive that one-hops right to Ichiro. This is about trying to put some data behind the Mark-1 eyeball scouting reports. So without further ado, I present the 2008 baserunning results for the projected 2009 roster of your beloved Oakland A’s.

Star-divide

 

BR

SB

Net

 

 

 

 

Matt Holliday

28

24

52

 

 

 

 

Rajai Davis

10

17

27

 

 

 

 

Ryan Sweeney

7

7

14

 

 

 

 

Daric Barton

14

0

14

 

 

 

 

Jack Cust

11

0

11

 

 

 

 

Mark Ellis

-1

10

9

 

 

 

 

Jack Hannahan

6

2

8

 

 

 

 

Bobby Crosby

6

1

7

 

 

 

 

Cliff Pennington

3

2

5

 

 

 

 

Chris Denorfia

0

2

2

 

 

 

 

Rob Bowen

2

0

2

 

 

 

 

Gregorio Petit

0

0

0

 

 

 

 

Jason Giambi

-8

0

-8

 

 

 

 

Kurt Suzuki

-4

-5

-9

 

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind these numbers are not intended to predict how the players will run the bases in 2009. (In 2007 Jack Cust produced a -6 net score while Kurt Suzuki was at +4, sometimes stuff just happens.) We can make some basic, common sense type assumptions like Jason Giambi probably shouldn’t be used much as a pinch runner. Now, do we say that because he’s 38 years old or because he’s put up net scores of -8, -8 and -12 the last 3 years? I don’t think it matters much either way! Then you look at a guy like Rajai Davis, whose speed is obvious to anyone who’s watched him play. Davis was the A’s best baserunner last year and over the past two years he’s put up net scores of +27 and +23 while being used primarily as a pinch runner and defensive substitute. Can we anticipate the same productivity if he’s given similar playing time in 2009?

 

This is an important question because if the A’s go with a 12 man pitching staff next season bench space will be limited. One spot is dedicated to the back-up catcher (probably Rob Bowen) which would leave only 3 roster spots left. Chavez and Ellis are coming off surgery and are likely to get more days off, especially early in the season. Combine their collective unavailability with Crosby’s general suckitude and it doesn’t seem a stretch to think that 2 bench spots will be reserved for infielders. So if all that comes to pass the A’s will only have 1 reserve outfielder… how best to use that spot?

 

Travis Buck would seem first in line but let me acknowledge some personal bias here by saying I still believe Buck to be a starting caliber outfielder. Given all the playing time he’s missed the last two years the last thing I want is for Buck to ride the A’s bench collecting sporadic playing time. If he’s not going to be starting in Oakland (and I seriously doubt he’s going to beat out Cust or Holliday) then I want him in AAA getting at bats. If one of the starting outfielders gets hurt or if Barton is struggling then call up Buck and adjust the line-up accordingly. Remove Buck from consideration for the 4th outfield spot and the competition boils down to Rajai Davis and Chris Denorfia.

 

Both are RH bats, both can play any outfield spot and both will be cheap. Denorfia is the better hitter but Davis is the better baserunner and defensive CF. This is another key point to consider. As the A’s starting CF Ryan Sweeney earned a +.1 score on UZR and a -2 score via Plus/Minus. These scores are pretty much in line with what the scouting reports said, that Sweeney played a competent CF but he was not exceptional. He was clearly not the A’s best defensive CF last year, that title belonged to Davis who scored a +4.9 UZR and a +4 Plus/Minus. Bump Sweeney to RF and he scored much higher, a +6.7 UZR and a +3 P/M. That’s a huge improvement over Cust’s -9.1 UZR and -10 P/M scores as a corner outfielder. Denorfia scored a +.3 UZR and a +3 P/M as a CF in extremely limited playing time. (I point out the SSS for Denorfia because when UZR tried to extrapolate his playing time to 150 games it scored him as a -7.7 LF, -9.4 CF & + 32.4 RF. That kind of wonky deserves a disclaimer.)

 

On paper, the best defensive alignment for Oakland’s outfield is Holliday in LF, Davis in CF and Sweeney in RF. Last year the A’s often used Davis as a late inning defensive replacement for Cust, bumping Sweeney or Carlos Gonzalez from CF to RF. I strongly suspect that Oakland’s 4th outfielder will see most of his playing time as a defensive substitute, with a sprinkling of starts mixed in over the course of the season. With such a limited number of at bats available (barring injury) isn’t it more important to focus on the non-hitting skills needed for the job? Let me be fair about this. Denorfia would certainly be an improvement over Cust defensively in RF, maybe even on par with what Sweeney would be expected to do when he bumped over to accommodate Davis. I’m not sure if we could expect Denorfia to be an improvement over Sweeney in CF, the data and the scouting reports are too mixed for me to make that claim but I would be willing to call them equals in a best case scenario. So the question becomes, does Davis’ superior CF defense trump Denorfia’s superior bat in the battle for the 4th and final outfield spot?

 

To some, maybe most, this would be a coin flip decision. Someone could certainly argue that the decision would be heavily influenced by the identities of the infield bats on the bench. I’m going to tilt the field by answering my first question: Can we expect the same baserunning productivity from Davis in 2009? I think the answer is yes. There will be enough pinch running opportunities, spot starts and late inning substitutions to earn Davis the same amount of playing time he saw in 2008 and barring injury there is little (if any) reason to suspect his base running and stolen base skills will fall off. And that’s huge, because going by the numbers last year Davis was one of the 20 best base runners in the major leagues (there was a 5-way tie for +27 so his actual ranking is nebulous) and he scored his points while seeing fewer at bats than any of the other 19 players. Davis has the glove to prevent runs from scoring and the speed, baserunning and SB skills to help manufacture a score as a pinch runner… all for a salary just over the league minimum.

 

Rajai Davis might be the most cost efficient weapon a manager can employ in a late inning, close score scenario. He'd be my choice for the 4th and final outfield spot on the A's roster.

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Very interesting read

thank you for all the effort you put into this, I think Davis is an excellent option for all the reasons you stated. One of the reasons I don’t like the Giambi signing is that Buck who should be playing will be either in AAA or on the bench. I really don’t enjoy watching Cust stumbling around in the outfield.

by Laoren on Feb 1, 2009 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

The problem with counting on Buck is that he can't be counted upon to actually play

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Once ever 15 days or so is still playing

The nuts and bolts of gameplay are apocalyptic failures, but the awfulness doesn’t stop there. Managing games is utterly pointless. [Feb 2009, p.85]

by A'sfaninNC on Feb 6, 2009 8:37 AM PST up reply actions  

But... but... but...

Jack Cust sucks at everything. Therefore this analysis is wrong.

You fail Mr. James.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Feb 1, 2009 9:20 AM PST reply actions  

and cloging baspath witt his fatttass!!!111

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Feb 1, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Baseball

Urinealysis is fantastic. I was wondering about minor league options remaining for Denorfia, Davis, and Cunningham. Davis is valuable, probably more so now, with James’ work. Cunningham possibly, could use more seasoning at AAA, so Denorfia or Davis? Denorfia was obtained in a trade to the reds for Marcus McBeth, Ben Jukich, and cash. I agree with you, Grover, but feel like it will be “open competition” in ST.

by greenpaddedgloves on Feb 1, 2009 9:22 AM PST reply actions  

I also like Urinealysis

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Feb 1, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Yummy!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Davis is out of options, i think, that is why the A's were able to get him

The nuts and bolts of gameplay are apocalyptic failures, but the awfulness doesn’t stop there. Managing games is utterly pointless. [Feb 2009, p.85]

by A'sfaninNC on Feb 6, 2009 8:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Buck

I hope he starts. I’d like to see him in the outfield with Holliday and Sweeney, with Cust at designated hitter. I know that would mean Giambi having to play first base, but I’d take that over Cust playing the outfield, especially considering I’d rather see Buck in the lineup than Barton right now.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 1, 2009 9:25 AM PST reply actions  

+Infinity....

"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."

The Many Wines-Rumi

by mrod on Feb 1, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Not me. I'd rather see Barton at 1B, Giambi at DH and Cust in RF with Buck as 4th OF

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd have Buck playing every day, yes.

As for who’d backup Giambi – I’m not up to date on the roster.

by OldhamA on Feb 1, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm sure Baisley or Hannahan could handle it

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 1, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I disagree.

But that’s probably because I think the not-Giambi first baseman will be playing quite a bit next year.

by Rocktopus on Feb 1, 2009 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I do too

and I think his name is Barton. I was just saying that Baisley and Hannahan could handle playing 1B up to twice per week.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 2, 2009 12:05 AM PST up reply actions  

So you're saying Cust is going to be

playing the field a lot then?

I’m not up to date on Giambi’s healthy, but he can handle starting most games can’t he? I don’t see why you’d stunt Barton by only letting him see the field a few times a week (unless of course the management feels that Barton can learn a lot just by observing Giambi).

by OldhamA on Feb 2, 2009 3:32 AM PST up reply actions  

I feel that way too (re: observing)

I also feel that there’s going to be an injury or two.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 2, 2009 8:40 AM PST up reply actions  

On days when with Cust playing RF

I’ve wondered whether the best thing to do is just to start Rajai Davis in CF and shade him a little towards right. And I really hope that Buck gets to play. Does Barton have options left?

by NateHST on Feb 1, 2009 9:35 AM PST reply actions  

Good point about Rajai in "right-by-right-center"

Overall, though, I’d favor Denorfia over Rajai because I believe Denorfia should be platooning with Sweeney straight up for best offense/defense in CF. In other words, I think Denorfia is “1/4 of a starting OFer” while Rafai is strictly a “4th or 5th OFer.”

 I would sooner have both Denorfia and Davis on the roster than carry a 7th reliever early on, but if one has to go it should be Rajai partly because it’s relatively easy to find another “pinch runner / defensive replacement” if you lose him out of the organization.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

I share your concerns over Sweeney

And in a platoon situation, the more at bats in play the more things swing to Denorfia’s advantage especially if my best case scenario plays out and the two are defensive equals. I just don’t sense the A’s considering a CF platoon. It feels like they’re looking at Sweeney to be a full time starter.

I agree that it would be relatively easy to find a replacement pinch runner/5th OFer but I don’t think you’ll find one as good Davis. That difference in abilities, whatever it is, would still need to be factored.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree in principle in not relegating a young 2nd-year player

to a platoon role too quickly, and maybe causing him to become incapable of hitting LHP due to lack of opportunity. But Sweeney’s inabilities to hit LHP go back prior to 2008 and Denorfia is good enough at hitting LHP and good enough defensively, that if you’re trying to put the best team out there it seems to me it has Denorfia in CF against LHP.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

If the A's are serious about trying to make the playoffs in 2009,

they cannot dick around with “long term” projects like trying to teach Ryan Sweeney to hit lefties. The game or two that costs them might well be the difference at the end of the season.

If they aren’t serious, then I have no idea what the hell they’ve been doing this offseason.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

and that’s why I’d like to see Denorfia make the team as Roenicke to Sweeney’s Lowenstein.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree. I have no problem platooning young players as long as they're not future

superstars. Sweeney is not a future superstar. Nor for that matter is anyone else on this team.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:39 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd posit that Kurt Suzuki is a superstar if he manages to raise his OPS+ another 10 points

while maintaining his defense.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Which he might do if he were platooned!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I disagree on Denorfia/Davis

I think Davis is a plain better overall player. Denorfia is a below average defensive player and a slightly better offensive player than Davis, who I would classify as a great defender.

by thejd44 on Feb 1, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

"Slightly better"?

Davis was a complete trainwreck offensively last season, even against lefties. Denorfia was actually above average.

Show me an affidavit from Davis saying “I swear to stop swinging at horrible pitches” and I might be more willing to credit him with an ability to improve. His O-Swing % basically doubled last season, which I wouldn’t believe if I hadn’t actually witnessed it happening. Wonder of wonders, his plate discipline went to shit. I can’t tell if he lost his mind or his ability to see, but whatever it was, the Rajai Davis we saw last season was an utterly useless hitter.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 11:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I think when it comes down to it Denorfia's a good enough hitter, defender

and base runner that Davis’ talents are obsolete (assuming it’s Cust, Holliday, Buck and Sweeney in the outfield).

by OldhamA on Feb 2, 2009 3:34 AM PST up reply actions  

But he has an option left. I'd use it.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Why?

If he is, in fact, better than Davis, why bother? The A’s are swimming in backup outfielders; losing one is barely noticeable on the current roster.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2009 8:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I guess so. It's not a big deal either way.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd bother because that surplus could turn in to a deficit in a hurry

I too believe that it would be best to keep Rajai on the 25-man and Norfie in AAA, at least to open the season (assuming everyone else is healthy, which they won’t be).

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Feb 2, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

If they're keeping an outfielder on the roster just to keep him on the roster,

I think I’d rather see them keep Copeland than Davis. Copeland at least has the upside of league-average (and will be optionable in 2010-2012).

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait a sec

The data and scouting reports on Denorfia say he’s a slightly above average baserunner and a slightly above average defender. Daivs is excellent at those skills. Denorfia is the better hitter, I won’t argue otherwise. But is Denorfia’s bat so much better than Davis’ that it compensates for the runs you’d lose on the basepaths and in the outfield if you picked Chris over Rajai? With Davis out of options you better be damn sure about the answer.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 2, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I really hate the idea of 7 bullpen guys, especially early in the season

That 7th guy will finish the month with 3 innings or so, and the spot is effectively wasted.

Seems a lot more beneficial to use the spot on a 5th outfielder, especially when you’ve got a CF who can’t hit lefties and two really slow guys who could use a pinch runner.

by thejd44 on Feb 1, 2009 9:42 AM PST reply actions  

Speaking of Bullpen guys

not really excited about this possible acquisition. (no thanks)

also mentioned in the A’s notes I filed on Friday that I’m hearing the team might have interest in Ron Villone, the left-handed reliever. That didn’t make it into the paper at all, but I’m hoping maybe it winds up as a chatter item. I haven’t had it confirmed by anyone with the club, but it would fit with what the A’s have said they might do in the two weeks left before camp opens.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=35280

by Trainman on Feb 1, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Waaaaay too many walks for my taste

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

The difference in having Davis vs. Denorfia on the roster over a whole season

is probably on the order of = or < 1 Win. I personally would like to have Davis, but there is nothing wrong with Denorfia either.

"I'm on hold for now"- Bobby Crosby

by DyeLongJustice on Feb 1, 2009 10:53 AM PST reply actions  

In terms of WAR or other such metric, I agree

I just suspect that Davis’ baserunning skills, the total of which are not factored into the usual counting metrics, can be utilized in late inning scenarios in such a way that the rewards in the W/L column are greater than a pythagorean measure. Put in simpler terms, it’s the 9th inning and the A’s are down by 1 run or tied. Giambi (or Cust or Suzuki or just about anyone other than Holliday) just drew a lead-off walk and there are no outs… who’s your pinch runner? In that scenario Davis is the better choice than Denorfia and it is a late-game scenario that I think the A’s are going to see multiple times.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Certainly on a team that has Cust playing OF and Giambi reaching 1B a lot,

it’s easy to see where Rajai would be valuable. Though Denorfia is a good runner and good defensive OFer, just not a great one of either – and he is a very good hitter against LHP, something Rajai is not.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

And if we didn't have Cust and Giambi at their respective positions, Rajai loses value quickly

Davis isn’t a very good hitter, period. He had some success vs. LHP in 2007 but I don’t know if that was a fluke or not.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Denorfia is a good enough PR that that's not as big of an advantage as you make it out to be

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Prove it

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

{races Denorfia, loses}

See?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

He's routinely delivered 15-20 stolen bases in his healthy seasons

at an acceptable success rate.

Another factor: If Pennington is the backup middle infielder, Denorfia probably will not be the primary pinch runner. Davis might be better than Pennington, but that difference is REALLY marginal. Pennington was 35/42 in steals last season. (A good reason, BTW, why Pennington and not Petit should be backing up next season. Petit isn’t really a basestealing threat.)

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

the story of my baseball life…

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Denorfia is 47/67 (71%) in SB attempts since the 2004 season and the only time he stole 20 bases was in 2003

In the same time frame Davis has gone 226/287 (79%).

So Davis has been far more prolific and successful as a thief. Denorfia’s limited major league data scores him at 0, meaning he’s been league average running the bases. (Huge SSS issue there.) Is Denorfia a better baserunning option than Giambi? Sure. Cust or Suzuki? Maybe. The (admittedly limited) data doesn’t support much beyond that. We know Davis has been excellent on the basepath, you’re guessing that Denorfia is anything more than average.

If Pennington beats out Petit then I can definitely see Denorfia beating out Davis. Its just I see Pennington down in AAA as the River Cats starting SS right now with Petit and Hannahan as the infield back-ups.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I see Baisley as the second infielder, especially if Barton goes back to AAA.

They has Baisley playing both 3B and 1B last year when he came up.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Feb 1, 2009 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

But he's a terrible hitter and mediocre fielder...and he can't stay healthy.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:41 AM PST up reply actions  

i think Rajai is better in your scenario

though Denorfia would be better in extra innings scenario, assuming he’s forced to play more than one inning because, well, we didn’t score when we pinch ran/substituted. Not that this scenario is going to make up any significant fraction of our games, but I really don’t think that it’s going to matter in the long run. Any amount of luck could potentially wipe out any advantage we get over that. But I do agree that Davis is probably going to be better in short term PR etc. Here’s hoping he gets another grand slam too.

"I'm on hold for now"- Bobby Crosby

by DyeLongJustice on Feb 1, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

agree with you on both Buck and Davis

I would rather see Buck playing every day in Sacramento than riding the pine in Oakland. I like Davis for defensive replacement in CF – he is clearly better there than Sweeney, pinch running, and spot starting.

Since Denorfia’s playing time in the Big Leagues has been so limited, I’m not sure he’d be better offensively than Davis, although I understand the reasoning based on his minor league performance before he got hurt (before he was traded to the A’s).

by OaklandSi on Feb 1, 2009 12:02 PM PST reply actions  

I'm not sure Denorfia projects as a plus major league hitter overall,

but he has mashed LHP pretty consistently and I think he would likely be a plus offensive player in a platoon.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

OK

But assume the A’s will not use a platoon in CF. Who would you pick between Davis and Denorfia as the sole OF back-up?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd pick Davis

but to be fair, I simply haven’t seen Denorfia enough to pick him

by OaklandSi on Feb 1, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

me too

and I’m sadly skeptical that Denorfia can ever again be the guy he was in AAA before all of his injuries.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Feb 1, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I might pick Davis because he does more minor things really well,

whereas Denorfia does a lot of more important things pretty well.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

He doesn't really do those things as well as suggested

20 points of wOBA, and that’s about all I think he gives you over Davis, really doesn’t overcome the pretty vast defensive difference and the added pinch running versatility.

by thejd44 on Feb 1, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions  

He looked like the guy he was in AAA before the injuries in the final month-plus of the season

Keep in mind, his AAA stats don’t include the playoffs, where he hit something like .450/.550/.800 with 4 home runs in 8 games. Don’t eat me if the stats are slightly off— the point is that he was showing legitimate power again, which was absent for most of the season.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Does make an impact

When you factor in those 8 games his minor league line looks a lot better. don’t like reading to much into a SSS, but I still think Denorfia is capable of being a good big leaguer.

by VanderBirch on Feb 1, 2009 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

He must be,

if Beane was willing to trade King Lear to get him.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

the Scottish reliever

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Feb 1, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Lear's pretty old though. And I hear his mind's going.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:42 AM PST up reply actions  

You're totally not getting it if you think I'm making a statistical argument here

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions  

My pick would be Davis as a 5th OF, Denorfia as a 4th if the A's are planning a platoon

  grover and Nico both bring up valid points and I see both sides.If they carry 5, then you have both Davis and Denorfia which I think would be a better choice early on rather than going with 7 bullpen arms. Buck definitely gets my support as a starter with Holliday and Sweeney filling out the outfield. I really feel like Daric Barton is going to have to knock some socks off for folks this spring if he even wants to sniff the opening day roster.

The A’s could have Hannahan as the backup 1B and back up 3B and one of either Pennington or Pettit as the utility backup guy. Barton only has one true position as a 1B and I just think he still has a little bit of development to undergo before becoming a full time starter, if ever. Buck on the other hand I feel just had a rough go of it starting off last season and some bad luck as well. What I saw from him in 2007 and especially Sept. 2008 give me more confidence in what he can bring to the table on a full time basis. I was especially delighted with his surge of power in his Sept. call up last year.

"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."

The Many Wines-Rumi

by mrod on Feb 1, 2009 12:04 PM PST reply actions  

It's likely Barton will not be on the Opening Day roster,

just because he will get off to a late start in spring training following his hip surgery. My guess is that as usual, the A’s will have some extra time to let the issue sort itself out.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

This is true

There’s also some concern about Ellis being 100% on Opening Day, which has me leaning towards 2 back-up IF.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Forst has also emphasized that Chavez will need plenty of time off

during the first few months of the season…wondering if that means he won’t be ready for Opening Day? Forst also mentioned Penington’s ability to back up 2b, ss and 3b, which may indicate that he is already being penciled in as the primary infielf backup.

by OaklandSi on Feb 1, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Lost "n" aside

I think the A’s will send Pennington to AAA to play full time. My pre-ST guess for the back-up roles are Petit and Hannahan.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

My understanding: Chavy should be fine for Opening Day,

just in need of frequent days off early in the season in order to stay healthy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

It's pretty much what Geren et al have stated:

The reason for early days off is not that Chavy won’t be ready, just that he’ll need the rest in order to stay healthy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I know, I've read it

it’s that the way Forst emphasized it in that interview made me wonder if they’re hedging a bit with him…

by OaklandSi on Feb 1, 2009 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, nothing is certain until Chavez tries

to actually play baseball for a week – and even then, that will just tell us more, not everything.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Do I win a prize if I guess right, grover?

Afterall it is my birthday, ya know…..

I’ll guess that the A’s worst baserunner in 2008 was Rob Bowen?

"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."

The Many Wines-Rumi

by mrod on Feb 1, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Happy birthday!

You are wrong.

Second guesses will not be acknowledged.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

WINNER!

You are much smarter than mrod.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Boooo!!!!!!!

Mean ole’ muppet!

"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."

The Many Wines-Rumi

by mrod on Feb 1, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait...

They measured how often a baserunner “moves up on a wild pitch or a passed ball or defensive indifference, sac flies and balks.

Balks? Did anyone in MLB fail to advance on a balk last season?

A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.

by IowaA'sFan on Feb 1, 2009 12:11 PM PST reply actions  

LOL!

"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."

The Many Wines-Rumi

by mrod on Feb 1, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I think they're measuring how many balks were "drawn"

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:45 AM PST up reply actions  

i think that that takes into account balks caused by the runner

pulling funny faces at the pitcher as he leads off first or third.

that’s how it works, right?

Billy Beane loves soccerball, and so should you

by alea iacta est on Feb 1, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Like in baseketball?

Psycheout!

A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.

by IowaA'sFan on Feb 1, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions  

LOVE that movie

On a related note, anybody seen the movie Orgazmo?

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 1, 2009 10:28 PM PST up reply actions  

love that movie

tis a winner.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Feb 1, 2009 11:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I was not aware you've seen it

This opens up all sorts of new avenues.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 2, 2009 12:07 AM PST up reply actions  

STEVE PERRY

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on Feb 2, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I think they're going for number of balks

My guess is a pitcher won’t balk unless he’s trying to fool the baserunner, therefore a skilled thief will see more balks when he’s on base because of the attention the pitchers are giving him.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Except the notion

that “a pitcher won’t balk unless he’s trying to fool the baserunner” is not really the case all the time – pitchers sometimes just drop the ball or step off the rubber wrong, etc. There is a pretty strong correlation, though.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

like i said

pulling funny faces.

it’s the key to most of life.

Billy Beane loves soccerball, and so should you

by alea iacta est on Feb 1, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Or if you're a monkey,

pulling funny feces.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Feb 1, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Or if you're an imposter,

pulling phony feces.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 7:38 PM PST up reply actions  

phone faeces?

like, talking shit?

Billy Beane loves soccerball, and so should you

by alea iacta est on Feb 1, 2009 8:33 PM PST up reply actions  

noone wants to hear about you taking shits

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Feb 1, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Rajai is on the team for sure, given that he's out of options

whereas (to my knowledge) Denorfia and Hannahan are not, and neither are Buck/Barton.

I think that Cust will bat second and will be pinch-run for/lifted defensively after his 4th or 5th at bat basically every game. Having Rajai and Pennington (and perhaps even Denorfia) allows the team to do that with Cust and Giambi all the time.

Like you say g, the question is whether the A’s carry 4 OFs or 5. I think they’ll carry 5 (counting Cust), because Giambi’s the backup first baseman, and Pennington can be the backup 3b/ss/2b. In an emergency situation with two MIF injuries in the same game, Rajai plays 2b, which he’s done throughout the minors.

I think they might have to carry 12 pitchers, even at the beginning of the season, because they open the year with 10 games in 10 days. And the starters are not exactly guaranteed to get to the 7th inning.

I’d rather err on the side of having one extra pitcher twiddling his thumbs than having Geren overuse relievers early in the year and hurt them. I felt he overused Casilla and Brown last year when they appeared about 40 times in the first 80 games.

Of course, it only takes one position-player injury in ST to render some of these decisions moot.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Feb 1, 2009 12:21 PM PST reply actions  

on the plus side, however

at least there are some reasonable options who can step in when the inevitable injuries start (in the outfield, at any rate.). which is a nice problem to have, no?

plus, i like jack hanahan. i mean, for no good reason. i just like him.

Billy Beane loves soccerball, and so should you

by alea iacta est on Feb 1, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

No worries

I might be the only member of the Lance Blankenship Fan Club.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

i am unapologetic

i have come to terms with the way i feel, and all i ask for the world to accept me the way i am

Billy Beane loves soccerball, and so should you

by alea iacta est on Feb 1, 2009 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

he was my baseball coach!

well for like a summer. but ill join the fan club too

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Feb 1, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Things could play out just that way

I’m just not sure about Pennington being the primary infield back-up. I think Petit is first in line for the utility job and I don’t like the thought of his bat at 3B. Ever.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Either of those guys would be embarrassingly bad as a third baseman

The A’s clearly need to have one of Dillon, Hannahan or Baisley on the roster to back up 3B and 1B. Hannahan seems like the odd man out because he hits left-handed and thus isn’t available for platoon duty.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

embarrassingly bad defensively?

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Feb 1, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

No, overall

Third basemen are expected to OPS better than .650…

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions  

So are all other hitters other than pitchers

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, but third basemen who OPS .650 are replacement level

whereas shortstops who OPS .650 are Bobby Crosby, which is to say they have some slight value despite being well below average.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2009 8:50 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm still not convinced that the 36th or so best SS in baseball is above replacement level

but I guess it’s a definitional issue.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Rajai played 2b in the minors?

Was his defense any good?

If he was even adequate, that would significantly boost his value, no? Carrying Rajai on the roster as a 2b/CF option would be hugely more valuable than carrying him as a CF alone.

"I'm on hold for now"- Bobby Crosby

by DyeLongJustice on Feb 1, 2009 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

No

He sucked at second base, like most players who get moved to the outfield.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

he'd strictly be an emergency guy...

the type you’d use for the remainder of the game while awaiting Petit/Pennington to arrive from Sac.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Feb 1, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions  

It's also kind of a "who cares" IMO

Who plays a few innings in some game where you have a freakish combination of injuries? Not worth planning for or around.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Right, the real discussion after ST will be

“Should Ben Copeland start in left or right field until 16 other players get off the DL?”

by thejd44 on Feb 1, 2009 11:01 PM PST up reply actions  

SS

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Most of how I feel about about Pennington and Pettit

is based on the health of Chavez and Ellis.

I feel good about either of them if Ellis and Chavez are both healthy. I feel ill to the bone if they are not…..and we have to see extended time for aforementioned replacement/backups.

"God made Majnun love Layla so much that just her dog would cause confusion in him."

The Many Wines-Rumi

by mrod on Feb 1, 2009 1:06 PM PST reply actions  

I don't like reay players.

And I think it’s not possible to be “quite reay”. You’re either reay or you’re not.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:47 AM PST up reply actions  

A lot of the discussion in this thread

is why I wish the A’s would really try hard to sign Ty Wigginton. He could take Hannahan’s roster spot, would be a legit bat in the lineup for all the days off that Chavez and Giambi would need (and Giambi will probably need more days off if he is playing the field). He can also play some corner OF – giving us an extra OFer – and an emergency 2Bmen if Ellis needs backup. I am sure the A’s could get him 300-400 ABs easy — and with their injury history he probably ends up with a close to full time role.

I realize his defense at pretty much all his positions is below average, but having a legit right handed bat (that kills lefties) to put between all the left handed bats in the A’s lineup will give the lineup some much needed protection against LOOGYs in the later innings.

by AsFanInLA on Feb 1, 2009 2:05 PM PST reply actions  

All depends on his asking price

I agree the A’s can’t afford to spend 5-6 million on a utility player (although they do it with Crosby every year), but Wiggington is still without a team and if there isn’t a lot of interest in him, perhaps his price is coming down into “Russ Springer range” – and I’d sooner put 3.25 million towards Wiggington than towards another decent bullpen arm.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Put another way, it's arguable that the A's need

an infield version, in 2009, of what Jay Payton was in 2006.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Wigginton

Wigginton
Wigginton
Wigginton
Wigginton
Wigginton
Wigginton

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not even remotely convinced Wigginton would be better than Hannahan

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Not as a 3Bman, but as a 3B/1B he would be, IMO

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

You could argue that if they were both slated as starting 3Bmen for the A's

(I might not agree, but you could argue that). However, the point is that Hannahan is going to be a bench player, where his glove is of less value, as we already have a regular 3Bmen who is better defensively — making Hannahan’s one useful skill somewhat redundent. Using Wigginton in more high leverege situations, getting half of his at bats against lefties where he is clearly better then Hannahan, as well as giving us a legit threat off the bench to pinch hit vs a LOOGY in a key situation (again something Hannahan would be useless for) makes Wigginton far better use of a 25 man roster spot the Hannahan.

by AsFanInLA on Feb 1, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed. A's have got a lot of lefty's

Having a guy like Hannahan around is handy, but ideally the 1B/3B backup should be a righthanded hitter. Dillon may actually be a decent option. His MLE’s are reasonable, I guess it depends on how his defence profiles.

by VanderBirch on Feb 1, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

It profiles better than Wigginton's, that's for sure

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 7:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Ya I don't really see how Mr Wiggles is any better than Dillon

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't understand why you don't think Wigginton is better then Dillon?

The guy has posted a .957 OPS vs lefties over the last three years combined. On a team that is filled with left handed batters, it seems we could use that kind of production.

You guys are saying that he profiles no better overall then Dillon or Hannahan. I am saying that as a bench/platoon player he offers something on the roster that neither of the other guys do. First ,a legit middle of the order hitter vs left handed starters. Second, a legit power threat off the bench to pinch hit in high leverage situation (esp vs lefties where he would be most useful). Neither Dillon or Hannahan offers that. All they offer is the idea that they might be as good an everyday starter at 3B as Wigginton if Chavez goes down. Well, Hannahan can peform that function from AAA and get called up if Chavez does go down. For the 25 man roster, there is no question (in my mind) that Wigginton is more valuable.

Now if that value is worth his asking price is the big question, but each day he goes unsigned he gets potentially more affordable. Just seems he is a guy we should be checking in on since he adds offense without blocking any of the young guys.

by AsFanInLA on Feb 2, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

My problem with Wiggles is his horrendous defense at 3B. In the NL he could

be a good RH bat off the bench. In the AL he needs to play defense or not play much at all. I think the offensive difference between him an Hannahan is offset by the defensive difference. He’s an expensive righty Hannahan. Dillon is a worse hitter and OK fielder. He’s a cheap righty Hannahan.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

so true, all of it.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Feb 3, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Pinch hitting is largely a non-issue in the AL

It’s very rare for a bench player to be so much better of an option than a starter that it’s worth bothering with. The reason for this is that players coming in cold have a horrific production track record. Dillon playing third in a platoon role is almost certainly a better hitter than Wigginton pinch-hitting— and if you play Wigginton in the platoon role instead, his defense becomes a legitimate issue.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2009 9:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Why does everyone want Barton over Buck?

For one Barton’s surgery gives the A’s the perfect excuse to send Barton down. If they send him down for about a fourth of the season, the A’s get an extra year of club control. Buck would probably need to be sent down the whole year to accomplish that. Buck also is just a better hitter Barton. Another fact people are forgetting is that Giambi got approximately 3/4 of his PAs last year at 1b. He can handle playing the field a lot.

Pennington will get the backup SS gig based on Forst’s comments. The other spot should probably got to Baisley. He’s showed some promise with the bat and he can platoon with Chavez and Giambi against lefties. The OF backup is probably going to be Rajai just because he is a known and showed some promise against LHP.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Feb 1, 2009 3:31 PM PST reply actions  

yes, I agree with all of this...

everyone but you seems to be assuming Barton will play 1st base and Giambi will DH and Cust will play the outfield. I just can’t conceive of that happening when they have the options available to them as you’ve laid ’em out.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 1, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I must have missed that "promise"

I saw a guy who couldn’t hit his way out of a paper bag last season.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

that was most of the team last year...

so, let’s hope he improves with the rest of ’em.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 1, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Most of the team last year were a few months past drinking age

Davis is 28 and has no track record of being a good hitter. I think Jack Hannahan is a stronger bet to break out with the bat than Davis is.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Baisley hasn't hit LHP well in the upper minors.

Based on comments the A’s have already made, it sounds like Barton has the edge over Buck in terms of team preferrence for playing time. Will the hip injury change that? We shall see.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 1, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions  

the hip shouldn't be a factor...

last year’s performance by Barton should be. Buck is a better hitter… and, he keeps Cust at DH and Giambi at 1B where they belong on the 2009 team. Putting Barton at 1B screws the pooch.

Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 1, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I suspect all of you "Rajai over Denorfia" fans will be proven wrong...

when Chris leads the Italian team to a thoroughly improbable victory in the World Baseball Classic.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Feb 1, 2009 4:35 PM PST reply actions  

What are the requirements for WBC eligibility?

For the Italian team, it appears an Italian sounding name is enough.

That will all be academic though when Sidney Ponson and Rick VandenHurk lead the Nederlands to WBC glory!

by VanderBirch on Feb 1, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Sydney's not pitching for Aruba?

How will they beat Guam?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting discussion

I would argue that if the starting outfield alignment was Holliday-Sweeney-Buck (with Giambi @ 1B, Cust DHing and Barton in AAA) then I’d argue for Denorfia as the extra outfielder, as the overall outfield defense and offense would be solid most days with a strict Denorfia/Sweeney center field platoon.

But, if for some reason Buck gets sent back down to AAA, Barton makes the team and the starting outfield is Holliday-Sweeney-Cust with Giambi at DH, then I’d vote for Rajai being the guy, as he can obviously make up for Cust’s limitations in right late in games and with him you could squeeze a little more marginal value out of his baserunning prowess.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Feb 1, 2009 5:14 PM PST reply actions  

"Bob, this football game was just a tremendous

display of football, in which guys really ran and passed the football in a ‘footbally’ way that only football teams can do in football. Did I use the word ‘football’ enough?"

Good grief.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2009 7:37 PM PST reply actions  

My thoughts

I can see both Buck and Barton being on the Opening Day roster, even though many may not agree with it. Injuries and the need to give guys ample rest will mean that there will be plenty of playing time to go around for both of them. The group of Cust, Giambi, Buck and Barton will not be 100% healthy this year. There’s simply no way that’s going to happen. So, assuming Buck and Barton both make the club here’s my version of the bench:

Bowen
Pennington
Baisley
Davis

Davis beats out Denorfia IMO since all we really need out of that position is a defensive replacement/pinch runner. Buck fulfills all duties as the “4th” OFer that were needed out of Denorfia. I pick Baisley over Hannahan because I don’t like Jack as a player. He plays good defense, but I believe Chavy’s to be better and if Chavy goes down I’m going to need a restraining order against myself so I won’t be paying attention to the team anymore anyway.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 1, 2009 10:38 PM PST reply actions  

I agree with the Buck as 4th OF plan

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Rajai > Denorfia

These guys are basically interchangeable. That is, the difference between Rajai and Denorfia is probably less than one win, so we have to go with intangible. Rajai is black. The A’s would have no black players if they went with Denorfia over Rajai. Therefore, for the sake of diversity, we should go with Rajai.

"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."

by VORP is too nerdy on Feb 1, 2009 11:53 PM PST reply actions  

You obviously don't follow the A's

Because if you did, you’d know that Billy Beane is a racist.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 2, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Giambi?

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2009 1:21 AM PST up reply actions  

craig italiano is in the system

i think he has enough italianity for the rest of the organization

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Feb 2, 2009 2:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Not with a name like Craig he doesn't

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2009 6:52 AM PST up reply actions  

The A's could practically field Team Ireland from their current roster

Crosby, Gallagher, Murton, Bowen, Sweeney… and that’s not even counting the guys with generic English names who might be part Irish…

OK, so the team is basically replacement level, but it’s a hell of a lot better than Team South Africa.

Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2009 8:55 AM PST up reply actions  

We'll see about that.

The A’s play Team South Africa at Spring Training in the first week of March and I’ll be there…

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Feb 2, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I was.. of course

basically kidding, but I’ve heard these types of arguments (mainly from ESPN and Fox) before. This is baseball, not college admissions.

"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."

by VORP is too nerdy on Feb 2, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

(mainly from ESPN and Fox)

and notsellingjeans

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Feb 4, 2009 12:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Give me Buck, Denorfia, Pennington

Buck and Barton are both similarly adept fielders, likewise Giambi and Cust are similarly unadept. Bucks bat > Barton’s thus far. Give me Buck.

Denorfia has always produced when healthy. Platooning him with Sweeney is smart not only because it will increase output, but also what if Sweeney tanks? We will want to make sure Denorfia gets some seasoning or else we will be seeing A LOT of Rajai possibly.

If you go with Denorfia, definitely give the nod to pennington over Petit as our main utility infielder, that way he can also be our pinch runner at times, where he is nearly as good as Rajai. Besides that, it occurs to me it might be more beneficial to have an infielder as a pinch-runner because it would be more likely he could stay in the game on defense (assumes pinch running for DH/infielders more likely than OFers).

I miss Chad God

by ChadGod on Feb 2, 2009 12:05 AM PST reply actions  

Give?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Feb 2, 2009 1:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Davis and Denorfia have nearly identical career OPS vs. LHP

I’d say that the OPS for Davis and Denorfia are so close that Davis really should have the upper hand because of his defense and baserunning…though neither has enough ABs to fully convince me this is how they’ll hit lefties (I’ll try to dig up minor league splits). FWIW, we’ve added a slow on-base machine in Giambi, so Davis’ pinch running should be even more valuable this year.

vs Lefty AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
Denorfia 81 .284 .348 .370 .719
R. Davis 181 .265 .325 .381 .706

By the way, Jack Cust was our best hitter last year.

by BillyWannabeane on Feb 4, 2009 8:31 AM PST reply actions  

Strickouts!!!111!!!1

That is all.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 5, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions  

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