A's trade for Jake Fox, Aaron Miles
by what_the_crap on Dec 3, 2009 4:21 PM PST
395 comments
Per ESPN Chicago and Rotoworld
According to ESPN Chicago, the Cubs have traded Jake Fox and Aaron Miles to the A's for right-hander Jeff Gray and two minor-leaguers.
Few details have been revealed, though this is certainly an odd one. Fox was stuck behind a few players on Chicago's depth chart and should get a better crack at playing time in Oakland. That part of the deal makes sense. But it's a wonder why A's GM Billy Beane and Co. would want Miles. It's probably safe to assume that the prospects involved are not of the "highly-touted" variety.Dec. 3 - 6:09 pm et
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A DH type guy and a meh 2B...
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Still plenty of chaff on there they can release if he does, or if they want a Rule 5 pick
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Release, or trade
There have been some Jack Cust trade rumors flying around, and Fox is quite the Custian type, so maybe there’s something to these rumors.
They do seem a bit incompatible, don't they...
unless Fox is ticketed for third base, which seems slightly iffy.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Wouldn't be surprised if Miles himself is released
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe, but I kind of doubt it
He is owed $2.7 M this year and can fill the utility role for the team. Miles isn’t really that good but I doubt the A’s just swallow his contract rather than use him as a back up.
Yeah; they needed a backup SS anyway
Might as well use him…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I guess.
Would you rather have Miles or Petit, though? Not sure I wouldn’t rather have Petit. They both suck.
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
Miles being a homeless man's Juan Uribe makes me sad
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Sure
2 bad shortstops is better than 1 though…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
MIles is a pretty bad defender at SS though. I saw his stylings pretty
regularly in St Louis. Zimmerman thinks he’s a -8/150, and that seems about right. CHONE thinks he’s an even worse hitter than Chen. I think it’s just paying $1.7M to get Fox.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
I could see that
They could always release him and hope someone else picks up the prorated league minimum…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
players involved
RT @jhamrahi: Oakland A’s acquire Jake Fox, 2B Aaron Miles and cash from the Cubs for P Jeff Gray, OF Matt Spencer, & P Ronny Morla
Hm
Fox is better than Spencer. I did like Ronny Morla, but he wasn’t going to make the team’s top 30 or anything.
Nothing wrong with this deal, although it’s kind of “meh.”
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Fox can hopefully take over the Nomar/Everidge role. And he's got more upside than either.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
Kinda where we are as fans now
Jake Fox gets you excited, and you realize how much you appreciate “meh”
we in the losin baseball binness. and cousin, binness is a boomin.
by walk off bunt on Dec 3, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
That seems to be a bit overly melodramatic.
This deal looks pretty minor all the way around so I can’t see how it could be awful or dreadful. The A’s send out a pretty good middle reliever which they have a ton of, a middling 4th OF prospect, and a long shot, low-level starter. None of these guys seem like a real loss to the organization regardless of who comes back in return.
Fox appears to be an interesting bat at 1B/DH who has shown the ability to fake it at 3B in an emergency and Miles can fill the Adam Kennedy role as a back up infielder. Nothing too exciting but then the A’s didn’t give up anything exciting either. Seems like a wash.
A bit?
I know me some hyperbole, and folks, that is some hyperbole.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
You mean you didnt think Matt Spencer was the second coming of
Juan Rivera?
we in the losin baseball binness. and cousin, binness is a boomin.
by walk off bunt on Dec 3, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
Why? Not like they gave up much...
And Fox cant field, but has some pop. Cant be “dreadful” unless you really give something up.
Bring back Hammer.
Well they are paying Miles $1.7M.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:15 PM PST up reply actions
hahah
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
A's twitter feed
We just acquired 3rd bman Jake Fox, 2nd bman Aaron Miles from Cubs 4 pitcher Jeff Gray, ML outfielder Matt Spencer & ML pitcher Ronny Morla
I'm not a big wine guy... Where do you grow the BEER?
More roster-crunch clearing, I think
Morla is Rule 5 eligible after next season and was only in short-season A ball this year. Concentrating 3 not-great roster spots into 1 OK roster spot (after Miles goes away, which probably will be sooner rather than later) isn’t too bad an idea.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Jake Fox
Hit 28 homers in 435 PAs between AAA and the Cubs last season.
Fangraphs Stats:
Jake Fox
Aaron Miles
The artist formerly known as HigherPie.
Yeah, I smiled after I saw that.
It will be nice to have a few more guys( Fox, healthy Hairston ) who show some power.
Harmless deal.
Gray had a nice little arm, but is pretty old for a prospect and wasn’t missing many bats, even though he seemed to have decent life on his fastball. Spencer and Morla were long shots to have MLB careers.
I am hardly a fan of either player the A’s got here…maybe Fox can hack-it part-time at 3rd, but if he can’t, isn’t he just basically a Tom Everidge clone without the two extra option years? And Miles just seems like kind of a useless pick-up…I guess he can backup at all the infield positions with the glove (kind of) but aside from 2008, he’s been a useless offensive player…plus, he’s owed $2.7 million next season. Ughh…I’d rather Beane just have passed on Miles altogether and re-signed Kennedy for a million or two.
I guess it’s nothing to get too down about, just a bit puzzling, and I hope Beane gets back to his “Effin’ A” trading self at some point and stops farting around with these “meh” type of deals, shuffling around nondescript players for other nondescript players.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
Fox is 932734987 times better than Everidge
(approximately)
Also, according to the Cube, he’s a “hit by pitch expert”!
The difference between Miles and Kennedy is that Miles can actually play shortstop. I don’t see either of them making much of a difference, but… whatever.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Aaron Miles has put up a UZR/150 of -18.8 at SS over 115 games
I wouldn’t say Miles can actually “play” shortstop. I’d probably rather have Petit as backup than Miles. Both have pretty awful bats, though Petit has a far better glove. Like you said though, PT, the deal is pretty “meh”. The Cubs are sending money, Fox is pretty intriguing, and Oakland gave up little more than nothing.
If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.
Miles is terrible offensively and defensively. I think they miss Crosby.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
Someone has to play 3B next year
why not Jake Fox?
Why buy good luggage? You only use it when you travel. - Yogi Berra
He's a bad fielder. But I guess he's there to lower expectations for Wallace.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
Side note:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/01/farm.systems/1.html
Wow… Just wow. BA and Callis still hate the A’s putting their farm system in the 16-25 range.
“Athletics: Natural regression after all those rookies in ’09; whither Michel Ynoa?”
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
Yeah that's just imbecilic
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I cannot possibly see the logic behind putting the Giants’ system ahead of ours at this point.
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
The Giants number one is probably better, but beyond that...?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
fyi
pretty sure that it was john manuel who wrote that. I wasn’t a fan of the list – Giants at 3? He said he placed heavy emphasis on star power at the top. As a Cubs fan, it was odd that he put the Brewers/Pirates ahead of us, and I don’t expect that to hold in the final BA rankings (Callis, Cooper, Badler have the Cubs as the top system in the NL Central).
I'm not sold on Bumgarner
If his velocity doesn’t come back, what’s the difference between him and, say, Josh Outman? Besides Outman’s superior secondary pitches, of course…
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
he didn't look that great to me when he pitched for the big league team near the end
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Weird comparison.
Bumgarner’s got excellent control, Outman is a power pitcher who’s problem is control.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
I was having trouble thinking of a good comparison
Give me a lefty that throws around 89 with little movement, below-average secondary stuff, and outstanding control.
Jarrod Washburn?
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
Mario Ramos?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions
I thought Ramos threw 86 and had a good changeup?
Was Washburn over 90 MPH? I thought he was under. How about Joe Saunders? Randy Wolf?
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
James Simmons rotated through the fourth dimension?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Jerry Blevins...
maybe minus the outstanding control part. And obviously not a starter. But he throws low 90’s with below-average secondary stuff!
by JustinIcon19 on Dec 3, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
Jerry Blevins has fine secondary stuff.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Did they even do any research?
We are fielding an allstar AAA club. That doesn’t mean their gonna be allstar pro but its pretty damn full of depth. I guess they are already calling Wallace, and Carter already pro’s!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Dec 4, 2009 12:07 AM PST up reply actions
Correct me if I'm wrong
But weren’t there more than a few people around here who are pretty high on Fox?
"Did you know you can comment on Athletics Nation from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say."
Flying Fox of the Yard!
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
im high on fox, if by fox you mean weed
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
that's the spirit!
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 4, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Should be pretty easy to search.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Should be pretty easy to search.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I get double posting
But double posting 25 minutes apart?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
That means the baby still won't be born for hours.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 3, 2009 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know why I find this so funny, but I do.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 4, 2009 1:02 AM PST up reply actions
I was assured by Bud Selig that
my team would not be subject to contraction.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Anything worth posting
is worth posting 25 minutes later.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Especially Chinese food
Any time I post about Chinese food, 25 minutes later I want to post again.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wow, I have no idea how that happened.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
$1 million!!!
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Dec 4, 2009 6:49 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know about Miles, but I've heard that Mr. Fox is fantastic
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Dec 3, 2009 4:11 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'm a little surprised it took this many comments for someone to make this joke.
(And by the way, that movie was quite entertaining.)
+1
Solid movie
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Went Monty Python rather than Roald Dahl, myself
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
monkeyball
The Wire of AN posters.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 4, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
Hey it's Ken Arneson!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
THE ken arneson?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Awesome isn't it?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 9:59 PM PST up reply actions
Um, I dunno who he is?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Catfish Stew
Excellent blog during its heyday.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 4, 2009 1:04 AM PST up reply actions
Also the entirety of Baseball Toaster
Dodger Thoughts was probably the best Dodger blog out there, and Cardboard Gods was always a great read.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 4, 2009 1:05 AM PST up reply actions
He was great at the poetic side of fandom -- talking about why we love baseball
One of the best writers going…
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 4:22 AM PST up reply actions
I only discovered Catfish Stew and BT months after it was all over.
Finding his last posts and then going back over old stuff there was the internet equivalent of finding a lost civilization.
Beautiful but sad.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Dec 4, 2009 6:52 AM PST up reply actions
And his name anagrams to "Loser-mania".
So that’s kinda cool.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
That's... ironically appropriate...
I’m still puzzling over the fact that Aaron Miles has actually played in the big leagues for six seasons. He makes Willie Bloomquist look like an all-star by comparison.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Trade
I like it. Aaron Miles is an upgrade over Bobby Crosby and Jake Fox could play third base. We didn’t give up anything that can hurt us.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Dec 3, 2009 4:15 PM PST reply actions
Actually, Aaron Miles is worse than Bobby Crosby
A lot worse.
Backup shortstop isn’t a significant position or anything, but Crosby is way better than Miles is.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Aaron Miles
He had a down year last year, yeah, but I think that was just a hiccup. His years prior to those were better than Crosby’s.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Dec 3, 2009 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
He has a career WAR--career, mind you-- of 0.2
No. He’s worse than Crosby.
I think you meant to say “his year” prior to those were better than Crosby, since the only “year” in question was 2008…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
2008
The year 2008 is not the year in question. “His years” was correct because he had more than one good year before 2009 and 2008 was one of them.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Dec 3, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah no
2008 was it.
WAR in prior seasons: 0.1, 0.0, -1.0, 0.2, 0.2. And a healthy -1.3 last year.
For those scoring at home that’s a combined “value” of 1.8 wins below replacement.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Numbers
They looked pretty decent to me.
I didn’t think Miles would have an all-that-great WAR to begin with.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Dec 4, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
Does this mean the end of Jack Cust?
Jake Fox is a pretty bad defender if I remember correctly
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
I hope not. Fox is not nearly the hitter Cust has been.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
Who values or has "expressed interest" in the past in Miles?
I think he’s trade bait with a team Beane wants to deal with, but who? Find out here:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/aaron_miles/
Could be any of those teams who thought about signing him last year…
I'd give him away to anyone who'd pay his salary. I'd even pay 1/2 his salary.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
i agree, i think petit would be just as good as the backup ss
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
I like it
Fox has Cust- like power ,plays 3rd and strikes out less. With $1mil of Miles salary paid he is a cheaper Crosby/Kennedy role player type. He did hit over .300 in 2008.
What's not to like?
Fox sounds like an Eric Hinske type who could be a good masher for a stretch of his career. Meanwhile, no one else involved is really worth having or worrying about. So it’s like the A’s signed Fox as a FA, which is great for a team that needs hitting more than anything.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
All this is true. It's just that it's a really minor addition.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
And you were expecting much this offseason?
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Still am
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 4:23 AM PST up reply actions
Things to keep in mind when looking at this trade.
Jake Fox is a ridiculously bad defender and is no way a viable regular option at third or anywhere else on the field.
Jake Fox is not a better hitter than Jack Cust.
Jake Fox was below replacement level last year.
And for once (and perhaps the only time) in his life, Jeff Gray may in fact be the best player in a trade.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 3, 2009 4:24 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Fox's .208 ISOP would've led the A's last year
His stats look very similar to Ryan Ludwick’s…
Fox: .259/.311/.468
Ludwick: .265/.329/.447
…except Fox is four years younger, had a higher and can stand near third base if needed. We gave up basically nothing for a (relatively) young player with upside that can hit the ball. I’m in.
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Leading the 09 A's in any offensive category doesn't mean anything.
And comparing him to Ludwick is pointless. Ludwick can sorta, kinda play defense.
Whatever Fox contributes offensively is more than canceled out by his atrocious defense. Hence, below replacement last year.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
1. He’s relatively young
2. He was crazy good in AAA before being called up
3. His defense sucks, but we can DH him if we want, especially if we deal Cust
4. McPherson’s defense is probably just as bad, so it’s not like we’re not going to have a black hole at 3B anyway
5. We’re the A’s + he can hit the ball = sweet
6. …
7. Profit!
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Heh. This is pretty much the exact same argument I heard from proponents of Tommy Everidge.
Although, Fox is admittedly better than Everidge, although that’s not saying much.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
The stats for Fox were MAJOR LEAGUE stats. Everidge's stats were in the minors
Not quite the same.
In addition, Fox has never really had a chance to learn one position and stick with it; he’s played C, 1B, 3B, LF, and RF for the Cubs in just over half a season’s worth of games for the Cubs. In fact, counting the minors, the last time he didn’t play at least four different positions in a season was 2006, when he was pretty much strictly a catcher. He’s played almost twice as many career games at catcher as anywhere else. The guy’s never had the chance to learn one position.
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
For goodness sakes.
I’ll spell it out for you again:
Fox’s MAJOR LEAGUE BATTING STATS (.332 wOBA) are not that good. Jack Cust, in his worst season last year, still outperformed him. And Cust actually knows how to take a walk.
Fox’s MAJOR LEAGUE BATTING STATS look even worse when you factor in how bad his defense is.
The reason why Fox has been moved all over the diamond is because he has been so utterly inept at every position he’s tried that the Cubs couldn’t help but keep moving him around, hoping he’d be adequate somewhere. It’s quite obvious the guy simply can’t play defense. The scouting reports say so, and the stats say so.
Baseball America described Fox’s defense as “a notch above horrific” with substandard speed, range, hands and arm strength.
Yeesh. At least Brett Wallace has good hands.
Finally, the guy has been old for pretty much every single MilB league he’s played in (hence shiny numbers, ala Tommy Everidge). While it’s true that sometimes there’s a hidden gem among the AAAA junk (Cust), Fox’s MAJOR LEAGUE numbers this year inspire little confidence that he’s one of those gems. Again, below replacement level performance is really, really bad. Sometimes an AAAA player is just an AAAA player.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Let me put it this way
We gave up pretty much nothing of value. We got a player who has upside as a hitter (but not in the field). Still, I have to think Beane’s idea here is to deal Cust for something and replace him with a cheaper, albeit not as talented, player. If Fox, McPherson, and Cust all make the opening day roster, it becomes apparently we’re just throwing defense at either 3B or RF to the dogs. If Cust is dealt, this deal makes a lot more sense.
I’m not debating your point in an exasperated manner; I would ask that you extend me the same courtesy. Could he be awful? Sure. But could he become a valuable major league hitter? Again, sure. Nelson Cruz was a AAAA player…until he did it in the major leagues last year at the age of 29. For Jeff Gray, a flier soon-to-be-Rule V eligible pticher, and an average hitting prospect, that’s a damn good gamble IMO.
(And yes, I’m very aware Nelson Cruz was a much better defender than Jake Fox will ever be…I’m insinuating Fox is a DH)
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
The problem is that Cust is a much better hitter than Fox.
I buy Fox as an Everidge/Nomar upgrade, but not as a Cust replacement.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
it becomes apparently we’re just throwing defense at either 3B or RF to the dogs.
Psst, Sweeney is at RF.
Also, it is yet to be seen whether McPherson’s injuries have affected his fielding a lot – UZR/150 thinks he used to be reasonably awesome.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
I was assuming that if Fox was at DH, Cust would be in RF
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
You are ignoring the opportunity costs (and potential consequences) of playing Fox.
In order to get Fox on the field, the A’s first have to believe that:
1. His bat has enough future potential to warrant the damage he does to the team defensively.
2. His bat has enough future potential to warrant the damage done by not playing currently better players (Cust, possibly Barton and Sweeney etc).
As I have shown you, nothing Fox has done in the majors thus far indicates that this “future potential” is there, or is worth paying all those opportunity costs to find out if it is there. But of course, you disagree. You believe that Fox can has a good chance to potentially become a Jack Cust or Nelson Cruz. That’s fine, I have no way of predicting the future and cannot for certain say that Fox will bust. But I’ll remind you again that the chances of AAAA players busting are far, far higher than AAAA players turning into a Cust or a Cruz.
Secondly, it bears reminding that the A’s have a very young, developing pitching staff. Last year, the A’s defense “supported” them to the tune of about -45 runs over the course of the season, pretty much at the bottom of the league. I find it asinine that the A’s have apparently tried to make their defense even worse this offseason. Along with pushing better hitters out of at bats, Fox may push better defenders out of playing time. Do you realize how much the A’s would be hurting themselves (both offensively and defensively), if they, as you suggest, play Cust in RF and Fox at DH? And to provide equal value to Cust w/r/t batting, Fox has to improve about 14 runs better with the bat, and that’s assuming Cust continues to hit as badly as he did last year. But what the hey, let’s just trade Cust and replace him with Fox already!
Lastly, the A’s didn’t give up “nothing” (at least in comparison to what they received). I mean, Jeff freakin’ Gray (a reliever no less) put up enough value in 26 innings of work in 09 to be as valuable as Aaron Miles has been for his entire career. Heck going by 09 values, Jeff Gray by himself is worth more than Miles and Fox. Even if you believe that Morla and Spencer will never provide any major league value, that’s still hilariously ridiculous.
In short, if you evaluate this trade in a vacumn, it’s iffy at best, most likely pointless, harmful at worst. If you factor in the opportunity costs, well, let’s just say I’d rather Beane not have made this trade.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I'm not exactly sure where you're getting this part:
I mean, Jeff freakin’ Gray (a reliever no less) put up enough value in 26 innings of work in 09 to be as valuable as Aaron Miles has been for his entire career. Heck going by 09 values, Jeff Gray by himself is worth more than Miles and Fox.
Maybe I’m just looking at the wrong stuff. In regards to WPA, Gray was -0.42 last year, while Fox was 0.51. If you’re looking at WAR, yes, Fox was very slightly worse than Gray. However, they both have SSS, and Gray plays a position the team is stacked at, where Fox “plays” one that has become a hole (3B).
What is the opportunity cost of putting Jake Fox at 3B? Dallas McPherson? I’m assuming Chavez won’t be healthy.
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
Miles (+ the fact that he's getting paid 1.7 million) is absolutely terrible and hurts the value of any trade.
Between Dallas McPherson and Fox, yes I would much rather prefer McPherson. At least McPherson has some semblance of defensive ability.
Perhaps the greater issue is Beane’s inability to, yet again, acquire a viable 3B option even though there has been cheap, valuable options this offseason. It’s almost touching how faithfully committed he is to keeping “healthy Eric Chavez” as the best option.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
It's almost as if he's setting it up so come mid season
it’s a case of ‘well, we have to play Wallace, now, everyone else is terrible’
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Well, Miles could possibly literally not step on the field.
I’m trying to look at this in terms of the players we’ll have on the field as opposed to two players for three players.
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
And I would be completely fine with Miles never stepping on the field
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 8:03 PM PST up reply actions
I understand your frustrations but
you’re overdoing the Eric Chavez angle. Beane has said that they can’t realistically expect Eric to play for the A’s in 2010 and he all but said that next year will be Chavez’s last season with the A’s.
I don’t know why the A’s didn’t go after Iwamura or Hardy, unless their relatively modest salaries ($4+ million each) would cut into their other plans (Arguelles? Chapman?).
The monster at the end of this blog.
Unless their relatively modest salaries
would cut into their other plans (Arguelles? Chapman?keeping their money this year?)
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Urgh.
The A’s better have “other plans” for that money. Everyone other team is getting great deals on FA 3B.
Meanwhile, we’re supposed to be satisfied with Jake Fox.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I don't get it
We don’t currently have anything at third right now…I don’t see the huge issue with plugging him in there for a couple months until Wallace or Cardenas or whoever will play there steps in. It’s not like we’re contending in 2010.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
The issue is Brett Anderson suffering a career ending stroke when he sees the horrific defense Beane has assembled behind him.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 3, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions
Sigh...so much for an attempt at a joke.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Don't worry, I enjoyed it
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
I did too
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
yea, I get it
I was just up too late and trying to poke a little fun
lenscrafters
I want to believe your statistical analysis on these matters, but I just have a hard time taking anything you say seriously after you argued last offseason that Dana Eveland was a better pitcher than Dallas Braden.
Has anything changed between then and now that should influence how I judge your arguments?
Shrug
I’d freely concede that Braden is better than Eveland, if that’s what you’re after. Not sure exactly why that old, tired argument is relevant.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I could hand you the White Pages
and everyone listed in there would be better than Dana Eveland.
No research needed.
This is like one of those Bertrand Russell paradoxes
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
The Eveland that Evelands all (and only those) that don't Eveland themselves.
by LoneStranger on Dec 4, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
Bertrand Russell did too much thinking
and not enough drugs…
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 4, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Rickey scored more runs than
any player in history — including Rickey!
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
If anyone could steal more bases than himself....
….it’s Rickey!
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Dec 4, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
“Of course Rickey stole more bases than Rickey!” ~ Rickey
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 4, 2009 11:37 PM PST up reply actions
In all seriousness, and I know that it's utter blasphemy to suggest this on this site,
Dana Eveland does actually have value. He’s a #4 starter who’s probably the best internal option if the A’s wish to start Cahill or Mazzaro in the minors. And GASP, Eveland’s tRA* last year (5.03) was pretty much the same as Braden’s (5.04), who everyone loves so much. SSS applies though, to Eveland.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I'm on board with this, especially since Mazzaro ended
the year injured and I’d like someone other than Clayton Mortensen as the 5th starter.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
BTW, I'm not that bullish on Braden's future. He wasn't
healthy at the end of the year either.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
Didn't lessen our endless optimism for Chavez...
…or Harden… or Duke.
Since when does injury diminish an ANer’s enthusiasm for a player? If anything, it’s become sort of our trademark… like Cub fan’s lovable loser status.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
Non-Arm injury = much less scary
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Dallas Braden is so cool that
he will still be cool even if he sucks as a pitcher.
I mean, we would be totally bummed if he sucks, but we would be sad for him, not mad at him.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I hate to sound like one of the anti-stat crowd that I usually disagree with
but Eveland is terrible. Any type of argument trying to put him and Dallas in the same ballpark is silly. One stat or another may put them on equal footing, but a comprehensive view of all stat-dom shows that’s just not the case. What’s more, Braden has shown conclusively that he can succeed in the majors while Eveland has shown he can get himself into hitters counts, walk too many batters, and generally suck in the majors.
I'm not arguing that Eveland = Braden
One season’s worth of tRA* data is hardly conclusive of anything. The only argument is that Eveland is a #4 starter, has value, and is a viable option should the A’s wish to start Cahill and Mazzaro in the minors. Also, it bears reminding that sometimes #4 starters have replacement level seasons.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I find it unbelievably funny (and a little dispiriting)
how opinion on AN has completely swung around on Braden based on him finally— in his third season— not getting really unlucky.
He’s exactly the same pitcher he was two years ago. A #3 starter on an average team or a #4 on a playoff team. His peripherals are very constant; he’s just had wildly fluctuating BABIP and strand rates.
DIPS metrics clearly still have a ways to go in terms of the popular consciousness…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
What are your thoughts on Eveland going forward?
Is his true talent level closer to the #3,4 starter form he showed in 08 or the replacement level dreck in 09?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Not sure
He was lucky-ish in 2008 and not that unlucky in 2009, so looking just at that, I’d say he was pretty dreck-tacular.
On the other hand, he did have a strong minor league career before 2009, so I’m certainly willing to give him a shot at proving that 2009 was just a bad year. Sometimes good pitchers just suck for a season (eg Cliff Lee in 2007).
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
The only thing that has ever intrigued me
about Eveland, in the positive way, is that his BB numbers in the minors were actually quite low.
Other than that, I see a pitcher with terrible command and low scores on the “mental makeup” chart for whatever that’s worth, who put up “Kennedy/Saarloos” type “shiny stats, don’t trust them” in the first half of 2008 and has really been pretty horrific ever since.
My gut tells me he’s a #5 starter, not a #4 starter, and as long as he keeps doing nothing to convince me otherwise I’m sticking with that as my scouting report.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
YES YES YES FUCKING YES
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Dec 5, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
TWSS
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
In the script, it looks like this:
She: Yes, yes, yes! (fucking) Yes!
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
No.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I reject this reply.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Dec 5, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Also
I hope you weren’t one of the ones on the Shelley Duncan bandwagon, since he’s just as bad if not worse than Fox. He’s basically a three years older version of Fox.
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
No, I was not.
But the difference between Fox and Duncan is that Duncan could be had for a minor league deal.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
...and Fox can be had for a minor league reliever with mediocre-at-best upside
who’s basically the 10th man in the bullpen. Or 11th. Or something.
What’s the opportunity cost of playing Jeff Gray? It means not playing Sam Demel, or Rodriguez, or Storey, or one of the A’s other 249327412 relief pitchers…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
So you believe that Morla/Spencer won't provide any value whatsoever?
Eh, understandable I guess. But I’m higher on Morla than most people…
But as I’ve made clear, my main issue with the trade is the potential opportunity costs involved w/r/t playing Fox. Also, it bemuses me that Beane is willing to give up Gray/Morla/Spencer for Fox while taking the hit with the soul-crushingly bad Aaron Miles when Aki Iwamura was available earlier this offseason for essentially…Jeff Gray. And Iwamura’s far better than Fox.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 3, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
Ya but Aki's more expensive and not indentured for as long.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 4:25 AM PST up reply actions
Can Duncan stand at 3B as impressively as Fox?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 4:24 AM PST up reply actions
CHONE has him at +6 runs next year in 403 at-bats
If he did that at DH he’d be mediocre but not terrible (1 WAR-ish).
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
That's still not better than the incumbent (Cust).
Fox is pretty much only good for platooning at DH with Cust. I hope Geren doesn’t do anything stupid like platoon him with Barton.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
let us not even speak those words, for fear the one they call 'Geren' should hear
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Shrug
Gray’s 0.5 WAR or so wasn’t better than “the incumbent,” either.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
OTOH it's perfectly serviceable at 3B
If Fox is a -8 defensively at 3B, he’d be a 2 WAR player there, which would be the A’s best option. It doesn’t sound like they plan to use him that way though.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 7:16 PM PST up reply actions
And giving $1.7M to Aaron Miles
very stupid trade.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Was Aaron Miles the owner of baseball's worst BABIP last year?
.213 is really miserable and must have been frustrating to deal with. No wonder idiot Cubs fans hate him.
to be fair Miles is pretty terrible even when his BABIP is behaving itself.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
In Miles' case I think this just shows...
…that he is very good at making weak contact. :-)
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
His career mark is, to be fair, .309
… of course it comes with no power or plate discipline…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
This probably keeps Wallace in AAA for sure
A McPherson/Chavez/Fox hydra at 3B should be enough to muddle through this year
McPhoxez
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
McPhoxez!!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Dec 3, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
if I had been drinking something when I read this
my laptop would have short circuited.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
Then we need to make it the official "A's 3B clown car full of people" nickname
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 4, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
This year every time the A's 3B comes to bat...
…the theme music is that annoying circus tune.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
I believe that's my theme song
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 4, 2009 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
The problem is that quantity doesn't actually ensure
that any one of those players will be “healthy and able to play 3B.” Those 3 could easily combine to give the A’s 0 third basemen.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If you count Kennedy (big if), it's 4
The odds that ALL of them end being injured are pretty low. The odds that they might all suck, though, are pretty high
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 3, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
I'm going to a friend's work party tonight
and
The odds that ALL of them end being injured are pretty low. The odds that they might all suck, though, are pretty high
would be quite a result
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
mutually exclusive events
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 3, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
Why would you count Kennedy?
One would hope that he will not be an A in 2009… they just got a crappy backup infielder, why would they want another one?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Because last year they had Kennedy, Crosby and Nomar/Everidge.
They’re still short one.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
It's not actually NECESSARY to have 3 crappy backup infielders...
also, Petit.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
he did end up playing 3rd for a bit
So if he does stay, then he’s in the mix there. Unfortunately.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 3, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's pretty obvious:
The A’s clearly believe that animals and distances are undervalued right now, while colors are overvalued.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 3, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I suspect, actually, that he read my off the cuff remark the other day that I like players whose names begin 'AA'
must… use… powers…. for…. gooooood
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
you could pay a billion foxes with the money it takes for an A-rod
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
While he was by no means a sure thing,
Ronny Morla did show a little bit of promise in the “name sounds like a mushroom” department.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
You're saying he wasn't a sure thing
to continue sounding like a mushroom? Those things are so hard to predict.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He showed early signs of mushroom-like sound
but he still needed work on that final syllable.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Like plate discipline, "final syllable" can't be taught.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Maybe I should follow the NL more.
Then I might actually know something about some of these players before Beane trades for them.
and if the mulder rumors come through...
we’d have a single x player plus an ex pitcher with chris carter producing. it’s all suddenly paranormal. (though i’m not against scully as the new rally girl…)
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Dec 3, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Just had a quick look at the comments on mlbtraderumors
this one is fairly priceless:
The two prospects are Michael Inoa and Aaron Cunningham according to Jim Hendry’s twitter account.
Posted by: Bravesfan4life88 | December 03, 2009 at 05:26 PM
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
yeah, I didn't realise the guy was joking
and was laughing at his credulity.
Joke’s on me!
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
I was about to post this. Great stuff.
If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.
Possibly...
…Phil Hendrie’s twitter account
by LowcountryJoe on Dec 3, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
Really interesting trade
According to UZR/150 Fox is a disaster at every position he has played. However the sample sizes are tiny, so he could end up being palatable at 1B.
I’m guessing Billy shoves Fox into whichever position Carter isn’t – either 1B or LF.
Miles is a weird addition, even for $1.7mil. The only thing he is good for is playing below average 2B, and for “veterany presence”™. Back up SS maybe? (confused)
Morla could end up being something good, but he’s only a lottery ticket at this stage really.
Question: how much service time has Fox used up? Cots isn’t up to date yet, I’m guessing around 1.0? (So he’s under control for seemingly forever)
I’m happy that we’ve added two potential powerhouses in the last fortnight, who cost nothing :-)
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
Fox has less than a year of used service time
so he’s an A for as long as he doesn’t suck, which might be a while or not very long at all.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Enough.
I am perfectly inclined to believe bad scouting reports for Fox’s defense, but people, STOP! quoting UZR/150 for less than 200 innings of data at any position. It doesn’t mean anything.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
Oh hey,
John McCain Lew Wolff is on Chronical live right now
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Lew pronounces Philadelphia
“Philadelthia”
Just an observation.
The artist formerly known as HigherPie.
he just reminds me of Emperor Palpatine every time I see his face.
by cityplANner on Dec 3, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
John McCain
Definitely.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
His nose is bigger than McCain's.
Maybe a combo of McCain and Charlie Finley?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
With a little Pope Benedict thrown in for good measure.
Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.
That's one hell of a name...
McCain Finley Benedict
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 4, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
his face looks like a tomato
"The A's get some action but they do not score..." -Glen Kuiper
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Bad lighting?
He looks less florid in the stands…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
9.5 for "florid"
I’d have given a perfect 10 for “rubicund”.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
does that mean"overripe"
in smart people language?
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 4, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
No, it means "red"
in dead civilization language.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Ruddy hell.
There’s a reason they’re dead.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Die losers!
Go winners!
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 6, 2009 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
Oompa Lewpa doopity doo
San Jose is calling for you
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 4, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
This would also be a good stadium chant tune
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Nice work on picking that out
He has a voice that is very hard to concentrate on
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
he kind of blew off the question about the effect on the established fan base
by mentioning the low attendance – whatever!
nice
‘hey, we’re not going to be hurting anyone, cause no-one goes anyway!’
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Translation:
“We’ve been effectively driving them away, so… what fan base? Besides, the few dozen or so die-hard ANers will follow us anywhere. We’ll be ok.”
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
CLive: So I hear you traded for Jake Fox and Aaron Miles today
Wolff: Wait, we did WHAT?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
It was on TV, dunno if it'd be online or anything
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Sounds like a fairly innoculous trade
Probably does not do much for either team. Maybe Fox is Cust facsimile and we win this one rather big. Basically we threw the pasta on the ceiling and want to see if anything sticks for us. :)
Cust, Fox, Wallace, Carter...
Seems like the current focus is on “Can’t play defense, but…”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd add Pennington to that till he proves otherwise
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
I live in St Louis. I saw Ozzie Smith for years. I've been to his bar.
Pennington is no Ozzie Smith.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
lets go Cardinals!!! WOOOOO!!!!!!!1111
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Dec 3, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
Ozzie Smith could kick
Robert Smith’s ass.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 5, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
Well, the "Can't play offense, but..." plan didn't work so well, either.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
I have a brilliant concept
I think the A’s should acquire players who are “good” at “baseball.”
I know, I’m a genius. I hear it every day.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Dec 4, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If you were a dog you'd probably invent a perpetual self-petting device.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
As a human, I'd like one of those.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Now it's nothing
We gave up nothing of immediate value for very slightly more than nothing of immediate value.
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
Ah
I’m too young lol
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions
Jake Fox or Teahen?
Which deal has a better value
Teahen for Getz and Fields
Fox and Miles for Spencer, Gray, Morla
That's six unimportant players
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
VOTE FOR NONE OF THE ABOVE
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I'm counting eight, but...
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I got this from another board
This is alot of talent in terms of quantity to trade away for 3 righthanded bats
“Holliday (Wallace/Peterson/Mortensen later), Hairston, Fox (miles).
Debate the varying upside of the talent traded away. But thats a sizeable chunk out of a farm system
Traded away:
gallagher
webb
italiano
gray
spencer
morla
cargon
street
smith"
yeah its a sizeable chunk alright
…a chunk out of the rear end.
Cargon is the only one on that list I wish we still had, and thats only barely.
barely?
Did you watch the playoffs, the kid’s a guaranteed star in the making
Chris Carter is the next Hank Aaron right?
by streetisclosedin08 on Dec 4, 2009 9:40 AM PST up reply actions
No, no no!
He said watch the playoffs! Not look at the stats! Just by looking at him you could tell he’s gonna be a superstar.
Go go Gadget Fake Indignation:
How dare you, sir (sir?), suggest that I did not watch the playoffs?!?!!one
I demand satisfaction.
Lol
Comparing Matt Wieters to those two.
Lol.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
He's garbage.
THOSE 20 GAMES SUCKED
Your day breaks, your mind aches.
You find that all her words of kindness linger on
when she no longer needs you.
yeah yeah yeah
im bitter because he ruined my fantasy team last year, he projected WAY higher than his results and was supposed to be an impact player, wasnt.
It's one terrible trade (Holliday) and two trades that gave away little of value...
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
And a first-rounder
I like Figgins. He learned to walk, which makes him a very solid leadoff man. But is he worth $8-9 million over 4 years plus a second-rounder to us?
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
Damn....
While the A’s go after “scraps” to fill 3B its crazy to think Figgins can be had for that price……..I think thats a good value
by Colorado Booze Hounds on Dec 3, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
That's a pretty good deal for Figgins. Too bad A's have no money.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree......
they could spend 7.5 mil next year……..and then Chavez is off the books……
by Colorado Booze Hounds on Dec 3, 2009 6:32 PM PST up reply actions
If Seattle's offer is 4/$30,
ours will have to be better. Say, 4/$34?
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
I should have said "too bad A's have set their budget so low"
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I really don't understand this passivity
I mean, it’s like the Furcal incident last year scarred them for life or something. Not every player is going to back out when you try to sign him to a contract.
There are a lot of good 3B out there. The A’s have, currently, the big fat goose-egg in that category. This seems like an obvious equation…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
so incredibly dumb...
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 4, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
What about those Romanian chicks that wear corsets?
The Cheeky Girls are way hotter and smarter than Megan Fox…
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 5, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Didn't we get Elle MacPherson, too?
It’s been a good off-season so far.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Did we have to trade the Gilmore Girls?
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Dec 4, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
EOTM!
(Euphemism of the month)
Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.
Now that was punny
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 4, 2009 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
the comment section is worth a read too
especially the part that says he “makes Jack Cust look like a gold glover”
ouch. looks like we have a new DH. Byebye Cust :(
Except, like, Cust is a better hitter.
So there’s that.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
With Fox & the glut of power-y hitters of questionable position
we have too many DH options. Love JJ Cust more than most players, but he (like Barton) will be better suited on another team.
Getting Fox and McPherson the last 10 days
Some will agree or disagree that finding their short term 3b for 2010 is done.
Or fiinding their platoon DH to replace Cust.
Miles vs. Petit
This move gives Petit one final year in AAA to develop as a hitter. That’s a good thing. The same arguments we make about delaying Cahill’s and Mazarro’s service time until they are actually good, useful major leaguers also clearly applies to any offensive players in our system, including Petit.
Also, excuse my language, but Bobby Crosby was an asshole and a headache last year. He didn’t understand his role to the team and he was quite possibly a distraction to Pennington and other young players with his complaints about playing time. It wouldn’t be shocking if he undermined Geren and Beane in the clubhouse and bitched about him to other guys on the team.
Maybe Miles will better understand his role. Maybe, as an Antioch native, he will actually like playing for the Oakland A’s, which is a factor ANers constantly ignore when they discuss hypothetical free agent signings. (Objectively speaking, the Oakland A’s are probably one of the bottom 5 preferred free agent destinations in baseball right now. I think we have to remember that. Hence Beane’s focus on trading).
Maybe Miles will mentor young players like Pennington. Although he lacks great physical tools, perhaps he’s cerebral and a good tutor for the guys on the roster who do have good physical tools.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
Although he lacks great physical tools, perhaps he’s cerebral and a good tutor for the guys on the roster who do have good physical tools.
This is exactly why we need Disco Hayes: to tutor…Bob Geren.
"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes
by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 6:32 PM PST up reply actions
The day that Bob Geren announces he's going to start turning up wearing disco pants
is the day I buy a season ticket
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
only if they have sparkles on them
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
How about if Geren does a camel-toe?
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
I never heard of Miles being a tutor in St Louis, but maybe they didn't encourage it.
If he can really do that, Wallace could use some learnin’ as well.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
The point about giving Petit more time is a fair one
If he could just get to the point of “acceptably awful” with the bat, he could potentially make up for it as a glove-first shortstop, because he has good defensive tools.
I don’t agree about this whole defeatist approach to free agents though. How much LESS money are people willing to accept to NOT play in Oakland? I really don’t buy that it’s more than a few thousand a year. People like money. The A’s aren’t spending any, but that’s their own fault.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
PT, what do you think this Lowwwww-budget approach says about A's plans?
Oakland so far looks like they are budgeting for 2010 as if they expect historically low ticket sales and income. I was going to say A-ball level attendance, but our A team in Kane County has actually huge crowds.
In today’s economy, I know I am watching every penny in my business. The A’s are, too, I think. They may be hanging on by a thread.
If the San Jose plans are near to finalizing, could the A’s be figuring on 2010 and perhaps 2011 being two years of empty stands because of non-contending teams and angry, betrayed fans? Or am I just overpsychoanalyzing?
Shrug
If that’s what they’re doing, it’s penny-wise pound-foolish… not that that’s anything new for A’s ownership…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I miss the Haas era
I understand why LaRussa skipped town: he saw the rockefeller family Noblesse oblige Haas ethos fade away. It is really a shame, when I was a kid the coliseum had large vibrant crowds. I don’t even know how to articulate how barren and empty the stands are the past two seasons.
Hell... Wolff is making me miss Schott/Hoffman
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
Wh? Because they were too incompetent to move the team, no matter how
hard they tried?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
Aaron Miles is better than Jamey Carroll
in almost every other season pre 09. Since they showed interest in Carroll who will likely get more than the $1.7 mill they will be paying to Miles. Since miles had some injuries and off field issues, which hopefully are non factors going in 2010
Carroll vs. Miles
About the same amount of time in the majors:
Career WAR:
Miles: .2
Carroll: 7.8.
He is not better than Carroll. He also has much less experience at 3B, although that is probably a blessing.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
but Carroll has 7-8 other suitors
and I’d imagine that he’d rather play for at least a few of those other teams more than he’d like to play for the A’s.
Every time I read “player X has 7-8 suitors” on MLBTR, I mentally cross him off the A’s wish list. Unless the A’s make an offer significantly better than every other team, I can’t see a major league free agent picking the A’s from a stack of eight teams right now. And if the A’s do make a bid that is overwhelmingly the best offer, it’s probably no longer a smart investment.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 3, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying they should/should have signed Carroll
in any case, Miles is just a salary damp; they wanted Fox for some reason…
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
OT
A Venezuelan report says that Marco has signed with the Red Sox.
The artist formerly known as HigherPie.
Two year deal. A's would have only had to give up a 2nd rounder.
They must either like Pennington or have some other plan.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 8:09 PM PST up reply actions
I think they do like Pennington.
Bill James predicts him to have a .311 wOBA next year, which is below-average, but not terrible. If his defense ends up being good, he could easily be a league average shortstop. And we’ve already discussed how much TotalZone loves his defense, despite his bad UZR sample so far in 500+ innings.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
If he's a plus defender he can
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
Bill James predicts me to hit .400 next year with a SLG of OVER 9000!
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
Sure that's not the Fan Projections?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
This is a smart trade by Beane
Trade 2 of the lesser valued prospects at huge depth positions.
Morla is your high upside lower minors arm, but hasnt pitched in a full season league yet. He’s rule 5 draft eligible next yr. So unless he pulls a Pedro Figueroa, then who knowshow he ends up.
I liked Matt Spencer, he was one of the better power prospects in the farm system. But he’s limited to corner OF and 1b. Also A’s have a complicated situation of adding as many as 8-10+ prospects eligible for next seasons rule 5 draft. Nice problem to have, which is the result of a good, college heavy 2007 draft.
I liked Matt Spencer
Maybe a couple years away though.
I guess the A's really wanted Fox
Miles must have been a requirement for the Cubs in a Fox deal. As for the other parts, Gray was going to be traded at some point this offseason. He also wasn’t going to garner much in trade by himself. Spencer is the guy I didn’t expect to see traded but he’s not a guy I’ll lose sleep over. Morla is filler.
Overall it seems pretty meh, possibly slightly positive.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Miles @ $1.7 million is easier to trade
Not that I’d expect much in return, but after the 08 season a good amount of teams were interested.
Also I swear the A's time their trades when I'm not paying attention
The last time I was online when news of a trade broke was like the Jay Witasick one.
Plus, they always time it right before finals. Thanks, Billy.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I haven't been this happy about having a Fox
Since we had Andy Fox. Sarcasm aside, I don’t see the negativity about the trade. We had to take Miles to get Fox, obviously, and we need guys who can hit from the right side. Not sure Fox can play 3B consistently, but I’d give him better odds of being able to stay in the lineup than poor ol’ Chavey whose back and shoulder are held together with screws and chewing gum. I’m also thinking that it means we don’t have much of a chance to sign Kennedy (or don’t want to).
@worldblee on Twitter.
What happened to the full out rebuild?
Making trades for Fox and Hairston go against that process since they are trading built up system depth of multiple prospects and getting older players in their late 20’s who are blocking the path of legit prospects. Unless Beane expects Hairston and Fox to produce a solid or two and then trade them again. If they end up terrible and another disappointing NL to AL conversion of players, then these trades will become useless.
They didn't really give up anything for Fox
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 3, 2009 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
Uh, the "system depth" you're talking about was about to vanish in the Rule 5 draft and waiver claims next offseason
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Fox vs Cust
Cust Major League stats through age 26: .220 avg/ .327 obp/ .386 slg
Fox Major League stats through age 26: .252 avg/ .305 obp/ .457 slg
It looks like Fox just hasn’t had the chance yet, just as Cust had not been given the chance until the A’s gave him a full time gig.
Lets see what happens.
He isn't talking about their counting stats.
Check out Cust’s early years in the minors when he was a legitimate prospect. Blows Fox out of the water.
Jed Lowrie
With Scutaro to Boston and likely Iglesias hyped as their SS of the future, it seems the luster has worn off Jed Lowrie. Unless they try to keep him healthy as a utility player. Maybe exploring a trade for jed Lowrie could be considered.
knowing sox fans
they’ll want anderson and carter in return
by guy incognito on Dec 3, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Well, the A's wouldn't be trading with the fans...
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
...though now that I think about it, we'd have to make sure that their collective DIWAG wasn't too high.
(Douchieness Index While Attending Games)
I do think there should be a surcharge for wearing Red Sox gear to a game at
the coliseum.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
this
$2 surcharge for slegnA, Yankees, Red Sox gear in the Coli
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 4, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely worth exploring
The Red Sox have been linked to Soriano and/or Gonzalez, so perhaps they’d be interested in a reliever. Wuertz is probably too much. Ziegler for Lowrie would be a good trade baseball-wise but it would break my heart.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Yeah, I don't think I could cope with seeing Ziegler coming on in the 8th at the Coliseum
for the Red Sox.
I mean, yeah. It’d be great for him and all, but seriously.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
I'd totally flip Wuertz for Lowrie
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
What's Boston gonna do with Lowrie?
He’s a man without a position who has a career .303 wOBA Oh, and Lowrie’s coming off an injury plagued year. He’s projected by CHONE to be -5 runs offensively in 2010 (although BJ somehow sees +6.5 wRAA). TotalZone doesn’t like his defense (although UZR does). I’d really like Lowrie on the team (and especially like Pennington not starting), but I’d like more for Wuertz. Boston would have to at least add a nice throw-in for me to consider the deal.
On a side note, looking at the CHONE projections here Fox projects as the third highest A in R150 at 6. Barton and Cust are ahead of him. Miles projects far worse than any other player who might make the team.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Good lord, this team is gonna be atrocious...
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Lowrie's fine if healthy. But that's true with Chavez as well.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 4:30 AM PST up reply actions
I would not let the possibility of slightly overpaying stop me from moving a reliever for a shortstop...
though I really doubt that it’s even an overpayment; if anything I think the A’s would be the team that was adding value.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I'm totally with you on this one.
Wuertz for Lowrie. Works for me.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Overall, I'm for keeping Wuertz, but...
…I’d do a Wuertz/Lowrie swap.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
Off topic: Reading mlbtraderumors.com
You’ll come to realize that the Red Sox are interested in every baseball player in the world. This is validated with links to the Boston Globe.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
Well they all have their good points
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
People are missing the point on this trade
Beane is trying to create competition for the holes on the field with young players. Wallace if you want to play 3rd you have to beat out McPherson and Fox." Petit and Pennington will have to beat out Miles. Carter will to fight for a position too. And we can always go with the hot hand since all are/or just about MLB ready. And many of these players are injury liabilities which we need the extra depth. This competition will be good. Its what got Davis to have his break out season. Its going to be a GREAT spring training!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Dec 4, 2009 12:36 AM PST reply actions
after all these posts...
Best I can figure is that Billy’s doing another of his “throw it to the wall and see if it sticks” off-seasons. Cust will be traded, and Fox will get a chance to prove that he’s the next David Ortiz. Miles will essentially replace Crosby. McPherson has a shot to be the next third baseman. And then Wallace and Carter will come along, Miles will ge released, and it all won’t mean squat.
Read some Cubs' fan comments and the consistencies/contradictions are funny...
A’s fans: We had to take Miles’ salary to get Fox.
Cubs fans: We had to include Fox to get them to take on Miles’ salary.
Funny stuff.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
I have a Jake Fox Iowa Cuibs t-shirt.
That was the give-away when I went to see the RiverCats plays the Iowa Cubs in May. Funny part was, the Cubs called up Fox earlier that day, so everybody had these shirts for a guy who wasn’t on the team or even in the stadium.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
Bill James is projects Jake Fox at .284/.339/.546 (.885 OPS) next season.
Not expecting that, but nice to see at least.
I like this James character. Can he do the same projections for the other guys?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 4, 2009 4:31 AM PST up reply actions
Its like Beane bought Fox for 1.7 million+ Fox's salary
He has the talent, lets hope it works out for us.
Better yet... can James play their positions?
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
Good trade
Fox has a nice power bat, and should hit for decent average w/ improving plate discipline. He’ll probably never be above average defensively, but he can be serviceable at 3rd given some time and attention at the position. He’s spent a grand total of 29 games at 3rd in the majors and minors combined; he just needs more work there. He was also a decent catcher until 2006, and I like the idea of having a realistic third/emergency catcher who might allow the A’s to fit Powell into the lineup more often.
Miles isn’t nearly as bad as many here think, assuming that last year was just a fluke. He can handle the utility role fine, but otherwise is just an insurance policy, or possibly a player to flipped elsewhere. Obviously his inclusion was necessary to get Fox, and as someone else said, his presence would give Petit one more year to develop his hitting in AAA.
I liked Jeff Gray, but 28-year-old relievers with decent numbers aren’t that hard to find, and the A’s are already loaded in that department. Spencer had decent numbers in AA, but there were a lot of guys ahead of him. Morla didn’t improve from ‘08 to ’09 in low-A, so he seems like a huge long-shot to ever make the majors. Really, the A’s didn’t give up much at all, and the combined $2.1 million (or so) in salary for Fox/Miles is perfectly acceptable considering the needs this trade attempts to address.
Why would you assume that Miles's 2009 was the "fluke"?
His 2008 is the only season in which he was a remotely valuable player…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I enjoyed watching Miles play when he was in high school.
It’s nice to see a local boy come home to play.
This post has been quite brilliant
Thanks for entertaining me on a boring day guys :-)
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
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