Where's the love?
by ilovethea's on Dec 23, 2009 11:01 AM PST
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PrintI used to read this blog quite a bit 3-4 years ago. For some reason I stopped. A few weeks ago I returned and have been following closely since then. I've notice a change in a lot of posters attitudes towards the A's front office. It used to be that most fans had faith in A's management and confidence in the transactions. Now, nearly every move they make is echoed with a series of "What are they thinking?" and "They did what???"
The best example of this change I can give is the reaction to the Cust non-tender and the acquisition of Jake Fox. Most posters, it seems, were upset by the loss of Cust and are showing no excitement about Fox. I don't get it. Cust has been regressing each of the past two years. He's painful to watch, and yes, while he can hit to occasional home run, most of the time he strike out looking or walks. When you've got a guy on second with two outs, wouldn't you rather have a guy who's a looking to get a hit, instead of merely getting on base. For a leadoff guy, a walk is usually just as good as a single, but for your middle-of-the-lineup guy, you need a guy who's looking to put the ball in play, not just an all-or-nothing guy like Cust.
Fox can flat rake. I don't know why people here are not excited by this guy. Yes, his defense is poor, but he's no worse than Cust and he can play more positions. He'll hit for a better average than Cust, get on base just as often, he'll drive in more runs and hit just as many home runs as Cust did last year. The bonus? He's younger and cheaper than Cust.
Beane's not perfect and we can't expect every move he makes to work out perfectly. He's made some great moves, he's made some not-so-great ones. But perhaps one of Beane's most overlooked talents is his ability to find that DH-type on the cheap. Look at the list: Erubial Durazo, Matt Stairs, John Jaha, Frank Thomas, David Justice, and Jack Cust. He got all these guys for next to nothing. Thomas was clearly the best, but you can't complain about the other guys either. If there's one area of building a ball club where Beane has earned my confidence, it's this one.
I'm excited by the 2010 A's. I don't expect them to compete for the division title, but they are building a core group of young players who should be competitive sometime in 2011 or 2012.
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I love A's.
Do you truly love the A’s or are you just saying that ‘cause you’re on their website?
I love A’s. I love A’s.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
I was in love once.
She was Brazilian, or Chinese or something weird like that. I met her in a Kmart bathroom and we made out for hours, only to part ways and never see each other again.
i’m pretty sure that’s not love, Brian.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Well, that's not a good start, but go on.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 23, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
What's it like Ron?!
The intimate times? Out of site my man.
No, Ron, Love.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Do you really want to know?
More than anything in the world, Ron.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 23, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
I...love lamp
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Brazilians are so hot!!!
Oh, wait…
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
to respond to the post
I agree on Fox. I watched a bunch of Cubs games last season (my gf is a huge Cubs fan) and I was impressed with his approach at the plate. He hit a wall and tailed off towards the end, but that is normal and I expect he will continue to improve. if he reaches his potential he could give us an excellent middle-of-the-order hitter who could provide near average defense at multiple positions.
Do you really love the lamp, or are you just saying it because you saw it?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I'm sorry, champ
I think I ate your chocolate squirrel.
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Dec 23, 2009 5:40 PM PST up reply actions
I woke up in some Japanese peoples house.
They wouldn’t stop yelling at me.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 23, 2009 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
That's just how they talk.
They were really offering you tea.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2009 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
Where was he supposed to pee then?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Hi, I'm love.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Really.
Jake Fox will get on base just as often as Jack Cust.
Please tell me you’re willing to put money on this claim. I could use a free lunch.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
You could just eat your hat!
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
and film it
PT Eats His Hat
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Dec 24, 2009 8:05 AM PST up reply actions
I hear there's no such thing...
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Dec 23, 2009 3:39 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's just a myth that the laissez faire-type insist apon
There are an abundance of free lunches; take the stimulus legislation, for example.
by LowcountryJoe on Dec 24, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
You really don't give up, do you?
This isn’t a political blog. It’s irritating to have someone constantly posting deliberately provocative political comments and have one’s hands tied in responding to them. If you feel like quixotically crusading against the tide of blog opinion in the proper forum, go post on DailyKos.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
by PaulThomas on Dec 24, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I can see why I irriate you
Looking at this comment of yours from just a few days ago, you appear to be opposed to public spending. I support public spending. And it’s not political…just ideological.
Oh, and don’t squeeze the Charmin.
by LowcountryJoe on Dec 24, 2009 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
Dude! Drop it.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
No one got that joke
It was an allusion to the board game Who’s Got The Brain, not a political commentary.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
I think the wager should go towards the charity of the winner's choice.
This is the season of giving, and you seem well fed enough .
Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.
Dude, did you just call PT fat?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Heh, yeah.
Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.
Only because you used such a specific example
When you’ve got a guy on second with two outs, wouldn’t you rather have a guy who’s a looking to get a hit, instead of merely getting on base.
In 2009(supposedly Cust’s “regression” year), Jack Cust had an OPS of 898 when there was a runner on second.
Going a little deeper, he had an OPS of 881 when there was runners on and only 765 when the bases were empty, he also had an OPS of 825 with 2 outs, and a 1029 when it was late in the game with a runner on 3rd. So he actually sucked way more in NON-pressure situations than in ones with outs.
Facts: they should be straight.
JACK CUST IS FUCKING CLUTCH
It’s worth repeating.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I think ilovethea’s was making the argument that Cust often walks instead of putting the ball in play with runners on 2nd or 3rd. The OPS statistic is perhaps too heavily influenced by walks to use in this discussion.
I wish someone would actually come up with some sort of explanation of why this is a bad thing
I mean seriously, HE GOT ON BASE AND DID NOT MAKE AN OUT.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Perhaps because some believe the A’s as a team leave too many runners on base instead of driving them in with hits. I’m not sure if the data support this. Just an idea.
and yet, you didn't say anything about getting a hit
you very specifically said “Cust often walks instead of putting the ball in play with runners on 2nd or 3rd”
So, aside from being way too small of a sample to actually mean anything, he’s pretty much no better or worse in those situations than his overall numbers are.
It’s a pointless argument to try and make.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I think the point would be that there are some situtations
where a high likelihood of a walk or strikeout, and low likelihood of a hit or “contact out” is not that useful.
I agree with that, but at the same time it’s kind of like “too bad, so sad, you can’t have everything” — such as there are times where a high likelihood of contact or a base hit, but low likelihood of a HR or XBH, is problematic, and makes Placido Polanco less useful at that moment while making Cust more useful.
Conclusion: Cust isn’t ideal for all situations. Whoop-de-doo and whoop-de-dee.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sure
but it’s pretty redonkulous to base some sort of anti-Cust argument on “he gets on base too much instead of hitting weak grounders or popups”
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Of course, I think the argument also extends to this: If they’re going to walk him (the old intentional unintentional walk), why should he swing at slop that’s likely to result in the runner not being driven in anyways?
Because he's Carribean?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
There's no bean in Carribean....oh wait.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
Isn't this the problem of the next guy in the line-up?
Not making an out is not a bad thing.
by LowcountryJoe on Dec 24, 2009 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
This is true mikev
Slightly more pointless than trying to get a verizon customer service rep to explain your bill.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Dec 23, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Oh I can do that for you
Please hold…
{20 minutes later}
Dial tone.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yay, we're talking about this again!
For his career, Jack Cust slugs higher and hits for a higher batting average when there’s guys on base. In other words, he gets more hits and he hits the ball harder when there’s guys on base.
JACK CUST IS FUCKING CLUTCH.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 23, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
I love that I started that.
I may actually make it my sigline.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
you're trend-setter.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 23, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
I forge new ground
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
you're Daniel Day-Lewis in "There Will Be Blood"
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 23, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
Now if only you can talk bobnothing into letting
you run a pipeline through his land…
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 23, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
While I'm not disputing this
How do these compare to his OPS in the same situations in previous years?
I know a lot of the anti-Cust group used to knock him for the fact that they felt we were losing runs in situations with one out and RISP with Cust up because of how often he was striking out. I’d just like to see if there is some sort of consistency here or if this just occurred last year.
This is important considering the fact that a lot of people don’t buy into this whole “he’s clutch” garbage that’s thrown around over at ESPN so often.
"Did you know you can comment on Athletics Nation from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say."
by stranahanahan on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
It doesn't really matter. He's been the team's best hitter since Frank Thomas.
The problem has been the other 8 crappier hitters on the team. Not Cust.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2009 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
Fact: thinly veiled anti-Cust articles are not my favorite things.
Sorry if my last post seemed a little harsh. I just honestly hope we re-sign him. He is now potentially the most valid run producer who could be had for the smallest amount of money out there.
Not meant as an anti-Cust post...
I was trying to post a question about why the lack of confidence is Beane and I used the Cust-Fox debate as an example. I like Cust, he’s a valuable player. I just think that Fox is just as valuable.
Also, in response to others, OPS is not a good measure of effectiveness when hitting with a runner on 2nd with 2 outs. If Cust walks, then we’re no better off, because the runner is still on second and now we (likely) have a worse hitter at the plate.
My dream stat for this debate would be something like this: percentage of runners on second and third scoring when a particular player hits with two outs.
And yes, I love the A’s…is that so wrong?
Go A's!
That's easy to get a read on
My dream stat for this debate would be something like this: percentage of runners on second and third scoring when a particular player hits with two outs.
That depends on three things:
1. How fast the runners on base are.
2. How frequently the batter gets hits in those situations.
3. How hard the batter hits the ball in those situations.
Jack Cust obviously can’t do anything about 1. As for 2 and 3, it’s already been shown that he hits for a higher AVG and SLG for his career when there are guys on base than when there are guys not on base. So I think he’s done pretty well w/r/t your “dream stat.”
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 23, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
I get your general point
But you really should be making it by showing us how rad Jake Fox and not mentioning Cust at all.
Also, in response to others, OPS is not a good measure of effectiveness when hitting with a runner on 2nd with 2 outs. If Cust walks, then we’re no better off, because the runner is still on second and now we (likely) have a worse hitter at the plate.
Im sorry, but this is just absurd. OPS is the culmination of all the stats that dont produce outs. When there’s TWO outs, this number being extremely high makes it the MOST relevant stat there is for the situation. If Cust walks with two outs, we have another potential run on the board. Is it his fault we are in such a shitstorm of bad contracts that he has Bobby Crosby hitting behind him? HELL NO!
If he makes an out, the inning is over. People keep saying “Cust is an all or nothing player” but then use an all or nothing situation such as that one to degrade him!
I do think an important point to consider, ilovethea's,
is that when a player walks with “runner at second, two out,” the team IS better off in that a double now score two runs, a HR three, a single scores one and now puts another runner into scoring position, and so on. I think the main problem with your reasoning is that it overlooks the importance of getting additional people on base even while you’re not scoring yet.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 23, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It does depend on the exact situation, though...
which wasn’t exactly spelled out in the example given.
If the runner at 2nd is the only man on base, and there are 2 outs, then a walk not only fails to advance the runner it also creates an additional force-out opportunity for the defense during the next at-bat. With 2 outs already recorded, this actually gives the defense more options for a force play on a ground ball that doesn’t leave the infield and could help them get out of the inning without giving up a run.
Having said that, from the fundamental point of view that you score more runs when more runners reach base safely I totally agree: a walk in this situation is not the end of the world, and could just as easily lead to a big inning.
by still bills kingdom on Dec 23, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
Funny
In that exact situation, if the next guy doubles, we could potentially score two runs instead of just one. A home run scores three.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
The run expectancy, after a walk, rises unless the next hitter is really terrible
There are a handful of situations where the win expectancy won’t rise (if the next batter is really terrible, or it’s very late in the game and 1 run is all that matters and the next hitter is pretty terrible). In those situations— and likely in many more, since managers overuse the tactic— you can expect an intentional walk.
The rest of the time, drawing a walk is a positive.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
Why is that your dream stat?
Why not just appreciate the good hitters and despise the bad hitters?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2009 10:01 PM PST up reply actions
"Dream Stat?"
I’m going with the final score at the end of a given game…..and the final standings at the end of the season.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Tim McCarver wouldn't approve
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 28, 2009 12:46 AM PST up reply actions
But only because he doesn't understand.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
correction
He IS the most valid run producer available for the money. This is why we should re-sign him.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 23, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
The solution to this:
Also, in response to others, OPS is not a good measure of effectiveness when hitting with a runner on 2nd with 2 outs. If Cust walks, then we’re no better off, because the runner is still on second and now we (likely) have a worse hitter at the plate.
The solution to that is to get better hitters behind Cust, not to force Cust to swing at shitty pitches to try and “make somethng happen”
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
REPLY FAIL
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Whereas Cust would have "REPLY WALKED"
and at least given another blogger a chance to bail you out.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The love appears to be in his arms:
This picture has no relation to this thread…as if it needs it.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
Is that who I think it is?
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Dec 23, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
Holy...
barf
Your day breaks, your mind aches.
You find that all her words of kindness linger on
when she no longer needs you.
um.
Although that does beg the question what that obvious Chowd thinks now.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 23, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
Leopold -- man, thanks for that link
I just laughed my ass off reading that profanity-laced back and forth between Angels and Red Sox fan. Priceless.
Is it just me, or does Lackey look like he’s got about a winter’s worth of walnuts packed into that neck of his?
Finally, the stat guys on this site finally convinced me of the value Jack Cust added to the team — thank you for the education. Seriously. I think it was a mistake letting him walk (no pun intended) … that being said, remember the “respect” you had for the 7 year old who never swung the bat in little league? Just stood up there scared to death hoping and praying he’d walk so he wouldn’t have to swing? Most of the fans who’d rather watch a guy walk instead of swingin’ the friggin’ bat …. they were that kid.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Note to LB:
You’re not allowed to nibble on Lackey’s neck.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
god i missed you
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
If you in fact were thinking of Mister Ed, then yes, yes it is.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
Stick that f**king thing out there!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Is that Lackey?
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
I'm JOHN LACKEY!
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 23, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
I don't love you anymore.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
open the link above.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 24, 2009 1:10 AM PST up reply actions
There's a link above?
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
There's a light up above.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 24, 2009 2:26 AM PST up reply actions
someone needs to photoshop Josh Beckett's head onto the woman's body.
I am no good at these programs but someone who is, please get to work.
Thanks in advance =)
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Dec 25, 2009 6:55 AM PST up reply actions
This thread has turned into another Cust fest
But it wasn’t really the author’s point, as far as I can tell. Sure, the example he chose happened to be the acquisition of Fox and the idea he likely replaces Cust.
Not the point, though. Why does a majority of the community no longer have faith and confidence in A’s management? That’s the question, and there haven’t really been any answers posed yet.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Thanks Jeepers
I can take the criticism fine, and my analysis on Cust is probably lacking, as many of you have pointed out in no uncertain terms.
But, as Jeepers mentions, Cust really wasn’t the point of my post. Whatever…who cares.
Go A's!
Reasons I DO have faith in the A's management:
1. Our farm system is in great shape, and there are lots of reasons to be excited about the future.
2. In the past, Billy has indicated that money is not fungible (I probably didn’t use that word right so I’ll explain what I really meant) meaning that the A’s have a lot of money this offseason, but if they don’t spend it now, it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll have the leftover money next season. Spending this money on a guy like Coco Crisp who could turn into a valuable player makes more sense in that scenario.
3. All the “non-moves” make sense before a season where we are expected to lose, and want to try and give young guys playing time to see who sticks.
4. I’ve had doubts about Billy in the past, but everything has turned out ok.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
I basically agree...
…but there is a reason the Moneyball movie is falling apart. Beane and co. got away from the Michael Lewis version of the A’s front office last year, and that really cast a shadow of doubt over them.
I’m not too bummed about the Cust situation, but I do hope the Crisp signing is part of a calculated move to acquire a 3B.
I think there's a couple reasons
It’s not just too much losing. This team was in the ALCS 3 years ago.
I think last year’s half-assed, poorly-planned “let’s go for it!” strategy hurt the perception of the front office and sent mixed signals over how much Beane really is calling all the shots. The Holliday trade was one thing, but the Giambi/Cabrera signings were completely inexcusable (and, I’d argue, were so obviously going to hurt more than help it showed that Beane was just doing something based orders from above – others thought those were good moves at the time, though a year later I still fail to see how projections for those guys expected anything else).
The other thing, I think, is that there seems to be confusion, a lack of immediate goals (there is direction: rebuilding, but that’s vague). For the first time under Beane, there are moves that I think very smart baseball people simply do not understand. Look, lots of us hate the Cust move. But I get it. There’s logic there. And, with that, the Fox move has logic to it. But pursuing Jamey Carroll? Signing Coco Crisp? Billy Beane and “head-scratcher” have never really gone together before, and I think that scares people. If hundreds of people thinking about why moves are made can only come up with “well, maybe someone’s gonna be traded” I think that’s a pretty good reason to at least wonder about Beane.
That said, I haven’t lost faith because I don’t think any of the baffling moves have really hurt their chances for being competitive in 2011.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Dec 23, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
This is right.
If they’rebuilding:
1) Why trade Carlos Gonzalez for a one-year rental? OK Taylor’s not that bad for a consolation prize.
2) Why spend money on Coco Crisp rather than Aroldis Chapman or Miguel Sano or Noel Arguelles?
If they’re going for it in 2010:
1) Why not sign Cust, Scutaro, Holliday and Beltre?
They appear to be taking a middle ground and that’s Pirate territory.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
....
I’m excited by the 2010 A’s. I don’t expect them to compete for the division title, but they are building a core group of young players who should be competitive sometime in 2011 or 2012.
Me too.
I’m sick of “the sky is falling ZOMG” people as well.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
You won't enjoy the team's first 3-game losing streak in 2011 or 2012, then.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
you know, some guy took a picture of that owl...
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 23, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
I never enjoy 3 game losing streaks.
But the win that breaks the streak is awesome.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
Beane's been outed as a mere mortal.
It used to be that most fans had faith in A’s management and confidence in the transactions.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
What is it with guys named Bean(e) and being outed?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Beane is a mortal. Bean is gay. Therefore all men are Socrates.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2009 10:09 PM PST up reply actions
it's a slippery slope
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Dec 24, 2009 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
Well, they do live in pods.
Oh, wait, that’s peas, not beans. Never mind.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
All men are Pythagoras.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
All sons tell physics jokes, Dad.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 24, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
I think my new biggest baseball pet peeve is when people assume what they enjoy watching is some sort of objective truth
I LIKE WATCHING PEOPLE WALK! To me there is nothing even close to the excitement of an at bat in all of sports. The pitcher/catcher/batter duel is what gets me juiced more than anything, by far. I find Jack Cust to be the most exciting type of player, and he might be the best at being that type of player. This isn’t a stats argument; it’s an aesthetic one. You can have all your fast guys who create “havoc” on the bases. Whatever. I can watch people run at the park if I’ve exhausted, literally, every other thing to do on the planet.
Give me a hitter who is going to give me that 12-pitch battle every single time. For me, there’s nothing more entertaining. I understand that very few others feel this way, and that’s okay. That’s why I don’t act as though there’s something objective about it. I don’t emphatically state that Jack Cust IS exciting, all other views be damned. This is one instance on AN where it truly is a matter of opinion (and, amazingly, the people who usually hate facts tend to me the ones pushing the “fact” that he’s boring).
Also, “When you’ve got a guy on second with two outs, wouldn’t you rather have a guy who’s a looking to get a hit, instead of merely getting on base.”
No. I want a guy who’s going to do, basically, the same thing he does every other time.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Dec 23, 2009 8:41 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
You'd like me, then.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Constantly getting on base can be frustrating if you never get the hit
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
Embrace the tease, man.
Embrace the tease.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I don't need be told twice
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2009 1:58 AM PST up reply actions
Then get upset with the rest of the team
who are both failing to get on base OR get a hit. All they have to do is one or the other. Everything else sorts itself out. In fact, if four people get on base in a row without a hit or an out. It’s a run! All that without ever getting into the fact that he does get hits with runners on.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Dec 24, 2009 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
he sees a lot of pitches
4.25 per PA last year (compared to 3.8ish MLB average), but he has also led the league in K’s the last three years. So, yes, he walks often, but he is almost twice as likely to strikeout than walk.
I like him for the offensive production, but in the strictest sense, the thing he does more often than anyone else is strikeout.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 23, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
Don't think of them as strikeouts
Think of them as ADPs or Avoiding Double Plays. He’s got a fantastically high ratio of that.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Strike outs don't insult my baseball sensibilities. They never have.
I like his player type not because it’s a great player type (I’d much rather have the Pujols type, for instance), but because I find it the most interesting. That was the point of my post. I’m tired of people calling Cust at bats somehow boring and acting like that’s an indisputable fact. It’s not. It’s a matter of taste. And my taste likes a true batter/pitcher battle. Cust gives that (he might lose a lot, but whatever) more than most.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Dec 24, 2009 11:27 PM PST up reply actions
You must be angry at yourself a lot.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
It's not that people have stopped loving the A's.
It’s just that the team has been really bad lately.
You see, being a fan is a lot like being married. Sure, you still love your wife 100% of the time, but there will be good times and bad times. In the good times, when she’s happy and successful and everything’s going well, that’s great. But there will also be times when she loses her job, gets depressed, and starts to feel down on herself. That’s when you have to swear at her a lot and constantly remind her how fat and stupid she … wait a minute! This metaphor doesn’t work at all! Who wrote this stuff??
Um … go A’s! woo!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Being an A's fan is like getting divorced....
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
You're still paying for tickets but no longer going to the games?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on Dec 24, 2009 1:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well...
after you swear at her a lot and constantly remind her how fat and stupid she is… yes… yes you are.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
He stopped loving the A's today....
They place a wreath upon his stone,
And soon they’ll carry him away,
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 24, 2009 1:12 AM PST up reply actions
George Jones, ladies and gentlemen
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2009 1:59 AM PST up reply actions
canned studio applause
Ooo! Piece of candy!
by ChickenStanley on Dec 25, 2009 12:00 AM PST up reply actions
Cust
we must engage our critical thought powers when it comes to Cust (difficult I know, because a lot of us love the guy despite how mortifying his game can get sometimes)… remember you have largely been forced to digest Cust as the lone sluggo in a lineup that would not strike fear into Jackie Earl Haley and the Bad News Bears.
If you took Cust and put him #7 in the Yankees lineup, or further down in a lineup with hitters with actual offensive skills ahead of him, you might get 40-50 HRs. 150 K’s and a lotta walks, but maybe over 40 HRs, not out of the realm of the possible.
Cust is more of a context player, I think, meaning his performance depends more extensively on the hitters around him in an order and what kinda pitches (i.e. how many get-me-over fastballs) he sees in counts as a result, so it’s easy to sorta pluck him out of his context and criticize, forgetting that we maybe have relied on someone to be the Man whose prime function as a hitter may be more as a threat down the lineup in the 7 or 8 hole.
It’s so funny when Jack gets hot and many here are like, hit him #2!!! Hit him #3!!!!! Not remembering how ugly the regression to the mean will be when it hits. Or when it whiffs, anyway ;)
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever
that moving a player around in a lineup or putting other better or worse players around him has any effect on his actual hitting ability. It only affects stupid, team-contingent stats like runs scored and RBI.
Jack Cust should be moved up in the order because he’s better at hitting than the other hitters in the lineup and therefore should get more plate appearances. On a different team he might be relatively lower because he is not as relatively good at hitting compared to the rest of his team. It really is that simple.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
Yes, scoring runs is stupid. Got it. Teams shouldn't waste their time on that stuff.
I know that’s not what you’re saying, but that’s how it comes off.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Caring who scores runs is stupid
The perfect lineup scores a handful of runs more per year than a reasonable lineup, but (of course) the person scoring them changes.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
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