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Why Fire Joe Morgan should never die

"The internet has given everyone a voice, yet not everyone deserves a microphone."

A friend of mine said this to me the other day, and I couldn't agree more. Here at AN, anyone who wants to can say just about anything as long as it follows the guidelines of the site. Do we all agree universally on anything? No. But it is fascinating to hear what other people think and you can even learn a thing or two and perhaps even change your mind on a certain topic based off another person's argument. Ultimately, every single post here is the viewpoint of the person writing it, however, its not paid journalism or anything. No one's "job" is on the line (unless you are spending your regular job day making posts, like I'm doing right now----OOPS!), and most of all, we aren't getting paid to do the analysis, humor, interviews etc. Its all just because we love the game. Its this reason alone that I'm not a huge fan of people nitpicking other people's posts or calling them out for hypocrisy or inconsistencies: no one writing posts is making any money out of it here, and no one is forcing you to read the posts and respond, and if you write stuff here thinking you are journalist of some kind, then you are only deluding yourself.

Actual paid journalism however, is a whole different thing.

The internet "digital media" era has indeed opened the doors to the joe average fan who might actually have some writing skills, and the old hard-copy media, the old fashioned "journalists" are getting called out for making money and taking jobs away from people who are better than they are at their jobs. The old, greying, "writers"  are fighting back from this not by assessing the changing ways of the world and improving their game, but by staying rigid and even getting more arrogant about their position as a paid writer by writing and saying (and in Joe Morgans' case: winning Emmys)  pieces that have no logic or real thought behind them, they have turned almost into radio shock jock DJ's. They do what they do to make that word count, to make copy, and to sensationalize non-sensational things. They know they are a dying breed, and there's literally millions of young, hungry writers out there who can out-write, out-analyze and basically out-do them at their job. And they aren't getting paid a dime to do so. The old school guys are perpetually on their high horses, scoffing at those who do research, form valid logic streams that perhaps don't follow "traditional baseball" ones, and basically do the job they should be doing, whilst they blabber on about completely irrelevant and insult us by passing their ignorant, poorly (if at all) researched and uneducated views as something I should pay money to read.

In this case, its perfectly fine to tear these guy's pieces to shreds.

For the uninitiated, that's what they did over at www.firejoemorgan.com, a no longer active blog (its writers got a little tied up with their new day jobs: writing for the hilarious TV show Parks & Recreation), that was an utterly spectacular takedown of America's "finest" baseball "journalists", both ruthless and beautiful in practice. On the site they would systematically take apart (often line-by-line)  poorly written and/or thought out pieces of paid journalism citing lacks of logic, ridiculous olde tymey baseball paradigms, making fun of old-school trains of thought and generally pushing forward how outdated and ridiculous many of those trains of thought are (and how irrelevant they are to the game today) and how it can even hurt players careers by having a writer critique a player based off absolute nonsense logic that doesn't break the players performance into the simple (and what truly matters) "how does having this guy on your team help win you games?". Nope, instead we get fluf pieces about small white guys who cant play very well but "have tons of heart" and "was a punter in college therefore he's the toughest guy in the game!" (nevermind the 620 OPS from an OF position). I find it perfectly fine to tear down these last bastions of lunacy because lets face it: baseball for years, made little sense. We are slowly but surely (Thanks Zack Greinke) going about changing the broken logic and irrelevant stats championed by these old, outdated writers, who have refused to do the right thing and change with the times and instead become even more hard-headed in their anti-change rhetoric. That's why they need to be made fun of with extreme prejudice.   

 

CLIFF NOTES Simply put: FJM was based off the theory that there's many sportswriters out there who get paid simply to exist as a person. Sometimes words will fall out of that persons mouth or appear via pen to paper. Those people get paid a lot of money to do this (and win Emmys). Sometimes those words are about baseball. Most of the time, they have no fucking idea what they're talking about. This is one of these times...

Star-divide

If you read just the headline, you'd assume Bruce Jenkins might have written something somewhat positive about the A's on the known hater-of-everything-Athletics, the SF Chronicle. You would, of course, be wrong. But there was plenty of other things written in here that insulted the intelligence of the average baseball-loving person in general. So here's what inspired this post:

The A's have developed an annoying habit of generating excitement in the offseason, then unveiling a slipshod product when it matters.

21 words appear here. When put together they form not Voltron, but a highly arrogant and pure gossipy trash of a sentence lacking any real facts. Bruce, I assume you are specifically talking about last year, when Holliday, Giambi, O-Cab & Nomar came aboard. Literally nothing was done the year before that, so why you wrote "habit" is beyond me. If you want to go back to 2004 when Beane was the most talked about person in baseball by blowing up his vaunted "Big 3", that led to a ALCS appearance a mere 2 years later, there goes your spiteful "slipshod product" comment too. Listen Bruce, we know you hate the A's, we know the A's "annoy" you and everyone at sfgate.com, how about actually coming up with a real deal Holyfield argument that shows how big mean and evil the A's are, and why you dislike them so? No, that cant happen because you cant come up with those reasons other than "This is GIANTSTOWN! They arent the GIANTS! They need to get out of GIANTSTOWN!"

Perhaps this winter will prove to be no different, but the A's are building the foundation of a boldly refreshing plan - and they have a definite edge over the Giants in the construction process to date.

Comparing Billy Beane vs Brian Sabean in terms of constructing a team eh? THIS IS DANGEROUS TERRITORY! I HAVE NEVER HEARD SUCH FARCE! EXPLAIN YOURSELF FURTHER!

There are basically two ways to screw up a team's offensive identity, and thanks to our two-team market, we got both of them last year. The Giants were the reckless free swingers, a weak-hitting team lacking any semblance of discipline, embodied by Aaron Rowand's futile swing at a low-and-outside strike three. The A's, clinging to a tedious obsession with on-base percentage, produced a lineup of reasonably thoughtful hitters doing nothing for weeks on end.

Getting on base and not making outs is "tedious"? Huh? Also: A's were ranked in 11th in the AL in OBP last year and bought in noted OBP hater Orlando Cabrera in addition to members of the "nuh uh, Im swingin away!" club in Kurt Suzuki, Mark Ellis and Bobby Crosby. I have no idea what a "thoughtful hitter" is, let a reasonable one either. Kind of a weird piece of unresearched, uninspired writing here Bruce...

Neither team will get back into playoff contention if such nonsense continues. The Giants, beyond the dismissal of hitting coach Carney Lansford, haven't taken a single stride toward a more potent attack. That's guaranteed to change - Brian Sabean isn't about to let the winter pass without one or two moves - but payroll restrictions could turn them into unsatisfying, back-page news, back there with the bowling scores and toupee ads.

The Giants offense nonsense: having terrible hitters being terrible at hitting.

The A's offensive nonsense: having hitters who try to not make outs (which I guess really is tedious, I understand this though coming from a Giants fan, Tim Lincecum is awesome, why waste time hitting when you'd rather be watching him pitch?) .

(also: love how it was Lansford's fault that Sabean bought in such worthless hitters.)

(We'll take it all back if Mark DeRosa signs to play third base and Pablo Sandoval moves to his rightful spot at first. That will take care of two spots quite handsomely, if only scratching the surface of work to be done.)

Mark DeRosa at 3B in 2009: -5.6 UZR

Pablo Sandoval at 3B in 2009: -4.1 UZR

I don't have any idea why you would keep Sandoval there and bring in a legit 1B like LaRoche on a 1-2 year deal, then keep Sandoval at 3B until his defense gets as bad as...uhhh Mark DeRosa's? Sandoval at 3B and Delgado at 1B > DeRosa at 3B and Sandoval at 1B, every day of the week. Now if you were playing up DeRosa's ability to many positions poorly, then you would have a better point. By the way, can I have a writers job somewhere? I mean, I only just made more sense using facts and research than Bruce did here, soooooo.....

So far, the big noise out of the Giants' camp has been their abhorrent paranoia over the A's designs on San Jose. Whether it's snobby elitism from Bill Neukom or some preposterous threat of a lawsuit, the Giants don't seem to understand that they own the Bay Area, and always will, and have a gold mine of a ballpark that virtually guarantees a wondrous, season-long atmosphere for baseball until the end of time. Protecting time-honored interests is understandable, but their overbearing stance is standing in the way of progress.

Wow. They actually came out and said it. This is really historic. If you've read the sheer arrogant lunacy from the mind of Ray Ratto over the years, this is basically been at the heart of everything about the A's he's ever written. Its also wild that Jenkins doesn't appear to want the A's completely jettisoned from the bay, but supports a move to SJ. This is maybe the most realistic and logical thing written in this piece. The only part that is incorrect was saying the "Giants always will own the Bay Area", they didn't own it until the new park was built. They almost were forced to move to Tampa Bay in 1993 remember? That whole era from 68-00 they didn't own anything except the city. I grew up in San Jose, and I wasn't the only A's fan there, it was about 50-50 despite the Giants inane "territorial rights" (no other 2 team town has any such claims by the way).

A's fans have grown too skeptical of Billy Beane's desperate maneuverings to place much faith in the future, but there are hints of change. It's possible that sometime next summer, the A's will have power-hitting sensation Chris Carter at first base and Michael Taylor, the heralded 6-foot-6, 250-pound prospect recently acquired from Toronto, at a corner outfield spot. If these guys are for real, they're going to give the A's a distinct local edge in starting-lineup appeal unless Sabean pulls off the unexpected.

Sabean can always go sign Matt Holliday. Why we get to read that getting a aging, worse defensive 3B than Sandoval instead of about how he should throw lots of big dollar bills at Holliday is beyond me. But yeah, the A's are definitely going to be a radical offensive team when Carter, Taylor and Cardenas come up. The Giants have Posey, so thats 2 good hitters, the rest would be nice to fill out with a Matt Holliday kind of player or comparable. Quit crying over Jason Bay, the dude knows he cant play LF anymore and will be a DH. Holliday is good to go, so get him.

So many of the names contributing to last year's malaise - Jason Giambi, Nomar Garciaparra, Daric Barton, Bobby Crosby, Jack Cust, Travis Buck - are either absent or passe. There's hope for a solid young infield, eventually, with Adrian Cardenas at third base, Cliff Pennington at shortstop and Jemile Weeks at second. Scouts like the potential of Landon Powell and Sean Doolittle. The raw but talented pitching staff (116 games started by rookies) speaks for itself.

 Cardenas isnt going to be at 3B unless he drastically improves his defense, but the sentiment is nice.

Division favorites? Hardly, but it's nice to see a bunch of highly regarded A's prospects on the verge of something interesting. Who knows, we might even get a miracle and watch them all play together for four or five years.

The Giants believe that no matter what happens in the offseason, their pitching will keep them in contention - and they're probably right. The A's will need a few breaks, but they have to be pleased with recent developments.

 Yup, cant really hate on this too much. But keep reading...

The Angels keep losing big talent (Mark Teixeira, Francisco Rodriguez, John Lackey, Chone Figgins, most likely Vladimir Guerrero) without gaining adequate replacements. This has to catch up to them eventually, and though they have an adequate farm system, there's little proof that it ranks any higher than Oakland's heading into 2010.

The Mariners had it all going for a while this winter. They stole Figgins, made a huge deal for Cliff Lee (4-0, 1.56 for the Phillies in the postseason), cleared some room for No. 1 draft choice Dustin Ackley (a pure hitter out of North Carolina) and cherished another season of clubhouse harmony, fashioned so masterfully last season by Ken Griffey Jr. and a revitalized Ichiro Suzuki.

The last bit is weird because Ichiro's WAR over the last 5 years goes: 3.2, 4.9, 5.7, 4.1, 5.1. No idea how "revitalized" it is being that he just had an off year in 08. But the foreboding introduction of the Mariners review seems a little odd "had it all going for them" implies that John Z traded Felix Hernandez to the Yankees for Chad Gaudin. Was it anything like that? Hmmm I wonder what he's talking about... 

General manager Jack Zduriencik earned a ton of well-deserved praise for changing the Mariners' identity, but it must have gone to his head. He traded for Milton Bradley. Zduriencik decided that unlike all those other executives and managers over the past decade, he could turn Bradley into a prince. What a foolish, team-wrecking notion.

AH how did I miss the line "cherished another season of clubhouse harmony"??? Of course that's where this is going. I remember how those 72-74 A's got along so famously! What about those 78 Yankees that they even made a fucking miniseries about? All a bunch of fun loving, really nice citizens there. What about the last time the Giants had a relevant team? Jeff Kent and Barry Bonds were always giving each other foot massages in the dugout huh? Team chemistry is one of the stupidest fucking notions in baseball. If they play well and are brawling in the dugout, NO ONE CARES. Even in the fictional film "Major League" the characters Dorn and Vaughn get in a brawl after Vaughn bangs Dorn's wife YET THEY MAKE UP AFTER THEY WIN. This is fiction, but after all we know about how crazy some of these players are, you cant assume that something like that hasnt happened before in real life. Having angry players who are good at baseball means you win games, bottom line.

John Z "turning Bradley into a prince" is a spectacularly shitty and smarmy piece of writing too. Basically if any GM called Beane and said "Hey I'll give you the 08 OPS leader for Eric Chavez--" the GM would suddenly hear his doorbell ring and there Beane would be, with the paperwork all ready signed and with those little "sign here" tags all over it. That's EXACTLY what happened here, Silva is the worst, most useless pile of crud masquerading as a ballplayer as any, and he was signed to a feverishly stupid contract. John Z would have traded him for Matt Stairs, he would have traded him for Brian Anderson, he would have traded him for Bobby fucking Crosby. Instead he gets the OPS leader from 2008? You don't ever turn that down, no matter who he is, no matter who you are.

Milton Bradley has had, a checkered career. He's like a non-threatening version of Dick Allen. Both can play, one had to deal with actual racism and geniune vendettas, the other just doesnt take no shit from anyone: fans, umpires, Billy Beane, etc. Sure he goes off from time to time, but does it affect his performance on the field? NOT ONE IOTA. In fact, he never did anything on the field in his time in Oakland, SD or Texas that showed he was hurting the team, he wasnt trashing his teammates to the press, so what the hell is the problem here? He might do weird things, that because he's under such a convoluted microscope in retrospect most of the doubts on Bradley are generally unwarranted. He's a weird dude yes, but is he worth having on your team? Yes.

Oh, and John Z got rid of the most worthless contracted, most uselessly overpaid SP in baseball, the Latin Darren Driefort, in the process of obtaining the AL's league leader in OPS not 1 year ago. John Z has every right to let it go to his head. Don't really understand the Morrow trade just yet though...

Bradley's latest firestorm won't be ignited right away. Griffey, Bradley's longtime idol, will make sure of that. But in signing Bradley to a two-year deal, the Mariners dropped a mine field into their master plan. The Cubs, with Bradley out of their clubhouse, will have one sensational Christmas.

The Cubs added a completely terrible SP, and made their OF worse. Bradley leaving makes them a worse team, and they arent getting better. A "sensational Christmas"? Its just a guy who didn't get along with a notorious psycho manager, he's not the boogeyman. He can really play baseball excellently well too. I seem to remember people saying the same things about after his OAK/SD year about how bad Texas a move it was for Texas. He went on to be the best hitter in the league that year. Did you ever think that he might just have something to prove? A rule of the game is: never piss off a really talented player, and hate-stories like these are only going to inspire Milton to play better---ahhh there it is, Bruce KNOWS that Bradley moving back into the AL West has a large propensity to come back and bite us, and Im pretty sure we will have to read about how badly Beane lost the Andre Ethier trade some more come August after Bradley has hit like 8 HR against us during the year.

Thanks for the Christmas present Bruce, really, thanks.

Comment 102 comments  |  10 recs  | 

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FJM was the one of the best blogs ever

Just as “Moneyball” was not a book about baseball, FJM was not a blog about firing an obtuse, Hall-of-Fame ESPN announcer. It was an hysterical, spontaneous assault on mindless idolatry and bad writing. If you are paying tribute to the FJM guys by doing this regularly, count me in. Bravo!

"There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact." - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi

by ptbarnum on Dec 23, 2009 9:12 PM PST reply actions  

+ A BILLION

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Dec 23, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

They were also at their best when NOT using stats-based arguments

Often, they were a bit misguided with those (though their hearts were in the right places).

Their best work was done in pointing out the hypocrisy and the inane. I miss them for that. Ken Tremendous does tweet on baseball and other sports a lot still. It’s like FJM in 140 characters or less.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 23, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions  

My comment on this

“column” last night:

This would be all fine and good, if it wasn’t so wrong.

The A’s do have an OBP-fetish. But that wasn’t their problem in 2009. Their problem was THEY DIDN’T GET ON BASE! They ranked 11th in the AL and 21st in MLB in team OBP. (The Giants were dead last).

I applaud the A’s OBP fetish. Getting on base is a pre-requisite for SCORING RUNS. Now the A’s just need to actually get on base.

(Admission: I only read the first two paragraphs of this column, because by then, the stupid, it hurt too much.)

I was specifically responding to this nonsense:

The A’s, clinging to a tedious obsession with on-base percentage, produced a lineup of reasonably thoughtful hitters doing nothing for weeks on end.

And I’m with ptbarnum: keep the FJM homages coming. Oh, how I miss that blog.

The artist formerly known as HigherPie.

by vegAN ryAN on Dec 23, 2009 9:56 PM PST reply actions  

Why is this nonsense?

An overbearing patience coupled with players who can’t hit for average may be an effective strategy in the long run, but it is tedious, and does create situations where hitters do nothing for weeks on end. Case in point: Jack Cust. When he’s not in power-mode, he does get on base a lot, he takes a lot of pitches. It is effective, or would be if other players drove him in, but it’s fucking boring.

by richwol1 on Dec 23, 2009 11:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes

Only patient hitters go on cold streaks. That’s just science.

by Joey C. on Dec 26, 2009 8:00 AM PST up reply actions  

And thermodynamics.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Except...

Patient hitters who don’t hit for average have longer cold streaks than patient hitters who do hit for average. He was describing the A’s in the past few years (though not the second half of 2009).

by richwol1 on Dec 26, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

They do?

Since when?

Your day breaks, your mind aches.
You find that all her words of kindness linger on
when she no longer needs you.

by danmerqury on Dec 26, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I remember reading a saber-oriented article

that concluded that TTO players tend to be more streaky than non-TTO players. Can’t remember where, though.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Dec 27, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

That makes sense to me. You have fewer random outcomes decided by whether a fielder can turn the ball into an out, because the ball is put into play fewer times.

by speckops on Dec 27, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree with you about sports journalism being helped by smart non-professional writers

But this has also spilled over into other journalistic specialties such as politics, technology, national news etc. To me, this is not a positive development because at least when you work in an inherently factual field, you need to have facts behind it. Many non-sports bloggers do not, potentially because they aren’t answerable to a boss to who pays them.

Back to the sports journalism: it’s so funny to hear the vapid comments made by some baseball journalists. It’s entertainment, for sure, but it gets so old to hear about Pedroia and other journalist favorites.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

by cuppingmaster on Dec 23, 2009 11:05 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Speaking of vapid comments...

…I nearly did a spit-take last night when I was watching the Cal/Kansas basketball game and Bobby Knight made a reference to Jeter going into the hole at short after a play by one of the Kansas guys. WTF?

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 23, 2009 11:46 PM PST up reply actions  

thank you thank you thank you

I read this article the other day over on SFGate and have literally read it about 5 or 6 times since then. I wanted to do a bit of a write up over here, but was really hoping that someone with a little more of a knack for prose would do it instead.
And you have done it perfectly. This is honestly one of the worst pieces of sports writing I have ever laid eyes upon. Jenkins, in the matter of maybe 500 words or so, has leapfrogged miles ahead of Ray Ratto as the worst sports writer in the bay area.

BTW, did you catch this:

But in signing Bradley to a two-year deal, the Mariners dropped a mine field into their master plan

Signing??? Was Jenkins not aware of what a trade entails? It usually means that you are on the hook for the contract the player’s previous team negotiated. That line just bugged the hell out of me. I mean, seriously, what you are writing makes no sense.

"Did you know you can comment on Athletics Nation from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say."

by stranahanahan on Dec 23, 2009 11:47 PM PST reply actions  

yeah that line is funny

I think its because of the money the M’s sent the Cubs, i saw it written one place as “M’s in effect sign Bradley to a 2/6MM deal”…..which is still just fine for the 2008 OPS leader, even if he’s oft-injured. Its certainly 1000x better than taking on Alex Rios’s contract.

Oh, and then theres the fact that they no longer have Carlos Silva on their roster. Thats a really great thing. Not only is Carlos Silva is completely terrible, but he too is known as a “bad clubhouse guy”. So they flipped a terrible “cancer” (anyone else think referring to a baseball player as cancer is more insulting to cancer?) for a potentially good one, its a great move no matter what way you look at it, unless you believe in some shitty high school ideal of “team chemistry”.

by PL78 on Dec 24, 2009 1:47 AM PST up reply actions  

I believe there is something to "team chemistry"

whether it is on a sports team, or even at your place of employment.

In either case, you can do your “job” effectively whether the “team chemistry” is there or not. But personally, I prefer a bunch of guys piling into one cab after the game, to seven cabs for seven players. If I was on the team, I’d prefer the former to the latter. But there is no correlation to a team’s W-L record. Not a building block, but a “nice if it happens”.

"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."-Plutarch

by One won lost won on Dec 29, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

The Office

Ken Tremendous is Michael Schur, aka Mose on the Office and one of their writers too. Even funnier than Parks N’ Rec, IMO.

I miss FJM too :(

Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless

by WiscoFan on Dec 24, 2009 6:50 AM PST reply actions  

[…]the old hard-copy media, the old fashioned “journalists” are getting called out for making money and taking jobs away from people who are better than they are at their jobs. The old, greying, “writers” are fighting back from this not by assessing the changing ways of the world and improving their game, but by staying rigid and even getting more arrogant about their position as a paid writer by writing […] pieces that have no logic or real thought behind them.
[…] They do what they do to make that word count, to make copy, and to sensationalize non-sensational things. They know they are a dying breed, and there’s literally millions of young, hungry writers out there who can out-write, out-analyze and basically out-do them at their job.
[…] The old school guys are perpetually on their high horses, […] whilst they blabber on about completely irrelevant and insult us by passing their ignorant, poorly (if at all) researched and uneducated views as something I should pay money to read.

I do not know the gentleman who has sparked your ire, and from the excerpts you have provided it seems I will not miss much by not having read this particular article. I will also admit that I barely ever read SF Gate, so I am in no position at all to judge the quality of journalism there.

However, your post is in some very serious need of words like “some”, “few”, “specific”, “there are” or any similar combination of those, making it clear you do not consider hard-copy journalists being mentally challenged, lazy, ignorant no-goods per se.

Because, if omission of these phrases reflects your true stance rather than an example of why it is not all that easy to write a perfect article, paid for or not, I will take an exception to that stance. And I will do so not only because I am a child of two “journalists”, two of what would today be old, greying, "writers" had they both not passed away way too early, but also because it is simply not true. There is more to writing than pairing a verb with one each of a subject, object and adverb. There is rhythm, there is flow, there is suspense and there is relief, there are smiles and even tears a good article will leave behind, just like a sip of good Rioja will last long after the liquid itself has vanished.

Joe Morgan is not a gray-haired, old-school, hard-copy writer. He is not a writer at all. And frankly, apart from being a good material when a lousy, aspiring writer like me needs a trite joke, he has grown to be an overly easy target and attacks on him start to resemble beating up on a three year younger kid just to prove the point of own toughness.

And as far as the true gray-haired, old-school, hard-copy writers go – sure, there are some lousy ones among them. But , just like none of us could even come close to playing baseball as awesomely as Bobby Crosby does, I highly doubt that there are literally(sic!) millions of young, hungry writers out there who can out-write, out-analyze and basically out-do such journalists at their job. This does not go to say that there are not horrid examples of quasi journalism out there, regardless of media type or that there are no great examples of writing talent among the ranks of people doing it without being paid for it. (FSU’s Stomper series always filled me with equal parts envy and admiration, to name one). So, yes, just as in any other profession, there are some very bad writers out there.

But then, there are some good gray-haired, old-school, hard-copy writers out there, you know? Joe Posnanski started out on an old-fashioned typewriter. So did Dan Jenkins. On a geezer-codger one, probably.

So, if you want to attack a writer – which, by the way, is very easy to do, as almost no other profession offers that much transparency into own work – please do so without generalizing. And have a great Christmas, you and the rest of AN.

by elcroata on Dec 24, 2009 7:43 AM PST reply actions  

fantastic post

As someone who dabbled in a little journalism in the past, I agree 100%.

It’s also important to discern the difficulty of writing something great every single day. It’s a little easier on a blog when the lights aren’t on as hot and you don’t have a deadline breathing down your neck.

by SeanR on Dec 24, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions  

It’s a little easier on a blog when the lights aren’t on as hot and you don’t have a deadline breathing down your neck.

This is why American journalism in general has been in a sinkhole for years. Good writing should be like art: it shouldn’t have to be deadline driven. Regardless of this, my point that there’s so many out there doing it for the love and the art of it, the ones who are getting paid should be accountable for what they do, and they must be at the top of their game at all times.

by PL78 on Dec 26, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Print media has devolved to the lowest common denominator

Not because print journalists suck, but because the corporate conglomeration has swallowed the industry whole and regurgitated Bill Plaschke, Judith Miller and a host of other hacks and unrepentant plagerists and dilly dallys.

I’ve had an occasional side gig as a print journalist. If I was a pro I would be fairly offended by the likes of Jenkins.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 24, 2009 8:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Odd linking

I see your point, but for one thing, linking up Judith Miller, a reporter who apparently consciously helped an Administration go to war based on lies, with Bill Plaschke, a second-rate sports columnist, as examples of how journalism has fallen on hard time doesn’t prove any thesis.

Miller was a propagandist who abused her position. I don’t recall any example from a paper like the New York Times in the past. Plaschke, on the contrary, is your typical old-school sports columnist. His problem is that, along with being a very bad writer, his refusal to examine statistical analysis as a viable medium for reportage. There have always been Bill Plaschkes but there have never been places like FJM prior to FJM and fan blogs, that exposed guys like Plaschke.

by richwol1 on Dec 24, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

They are both products of consolidation and dumbing down of the work

That’s my point.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 24, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Bad examples

Judith Miller began working at the New York Times in 1977, and Plaschke began at the Los Angeles Times in 1987. Neither are products of consolidation, having come on board long before the internet made any headway into the newsprint business. Miller herself is a former Pulitzer Prize winner, not exactly “dumbing down” material. Plaschke is your typical lazy sportswriter prevalent in earlier decades throughout the industry.

by richwol1 on Dec 25, 2009 12:29 AM PST up reply actions  

huh?

Do you think any of these hacks write anything without permission? Please.

Whether it’s Plaschke’s fantasy based drivel or Miller’s anonymous sources it all boils down to the corporate bottom line and the business agenda. It has nothing to do with the internet.

Whatever writers for these papers did 20 or 30 years ago is irrelevant.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 26, 2009 6:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I have a different take.....

Writers 20 and 30 years ago had a monopoly on information. The general public had little or no access into politics, sports, or other current events. The media has now lost their exclusive access to inform the public, primarily because of the internet. Some of these jackasses have been spouting off as oracles for so long in their self appointed roles as guardians of the public interest, they are incapable of adapting to a new order.

It’s high time they were held accountable, and the internet is doing just that. Curt Schilling doesn’t need the press to convince the public that he’s a jackass, he can do that on his own now. On the other hand, their are a lot of people out there who don’t think he’s a jackass, primarily because he can reach them himself. What happened to Ted Williams in the print media so many years ago is no longer possible. A lot of these writers can’t grasp the fact that their version is no longer the only source of information.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 26, 2009 8:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Fact Checking is Tighter Now

While Miller was writing her drivel, reporters at Knight-Ridder were giving real information regarding the build-up to war. Are you suggesting that somehow the fix was in at the Times and not at Knight-Ridder? C’mon.

As for Plaschke, he’s simply old school.

by richwol1 on Dec 26, 2009 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not saying that there are not

good reporters out there. I’m sure that there are quite a few of them. And I’d bet that they are the younger ones, the ones who haven’t grown accustomed to having their words accepted as gospel for lack of another source being available. For their sakes, hopefully the print media will survive long enough for them to gain control of the media apparatus. If traditional journalism is to survive, then it had better return to the idea of being non partisan. Over the years I’ve come to ignore the media because they so often slant a story with their own personal views. Often I’ve agreed with them, but I resent the hell out of them presuming to do my thinking for me. All they need do is present the issues, pro and con, and let the consumer decipher it for themselves.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 26, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Problem with that too

Which is that if you simply present “he said, she said,” then you give equal credence to views that don’t require equal credence. It’s been a huge problem in journalism for the past fifteen years, and apparently it’s something taught in modern journalism schools.

by richwol1 on Dec 26, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

"They don't require equal credence"....

now see, that’s something the reader should decide. The reporter need only report. Give the “who’s”, the “what’s”, the “where’s”, and the “when’s”. As for the “why’s”, let the reader decide.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 26, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Lying

The problem with “he said, she said” is that one person could be lying and the other telling the truth. It’s up to the reporter to work with that, not simply report on the two sides. Also, a nutcase is given equal time with a scientist.

And bottom line, you CANNOT be objective. It’s impossible.

by richwol1 on Dec 26, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions  

We report, you decide

lol

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 27, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's what you wind up with

Two shouting polarized views, filled with propaganda. That’s why journalism sucks today. Not the internet.

by richwol1 on Dec 27, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I think you are missing my point

The fact is I knew and many knew in 2002 that Iraq had disposed of the WMD. It was no secret and it wasn’t because I read Knight Ridder. If they were exposing the truth they were the exception.

As far a polarized views, I couldn’t disagree more. If that was the case Bill Moyers and Amy Goodman would be on network tv. Fat chance.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 27, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I would disagree with the speculation that

young reporters are more likely to be good than old ones. In the small sample of my personal acquaintance, the opposite has been true.

More to the point, I don’t agree with your premise that “having their words accepted as gospel” has made older reporters careless about accuracy. I surely agree that there is something rotten in old media, but I don’t think the reporters are the problem. In all generations, I think, there are good reporters as well as lazy ones.

I’d be more inclined to agree with you if you were talking about pundits and opinion columnists, who in my view are much worse than reporters.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Dec 27, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

exactly right igloo

Walter Cronkite couldn’t get a job these days. Too honest.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 27, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

er, that's ur name right? iglew?

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 27, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Cronkite Couldn't Get A Job

Because he didn’t have a television face. He started in radio. TV came later. He was also an anchorman/reporter, not a pundit or opinion columnist.

I think there are a lot of problems with broadcast media, and printed media as well. But it is far from hopeless. Democracy Now! is heard on over 800 stations around the world, and is seen on television on several stations. Pacifica and NFCB programs can be heard on non-commercial radio stations around the country, including digital stations and LP (low power) stations. You can get info from Huffington Post, Truthout et al on line as well.

And stuck in amongst the dreck are some good sports reporters, including Rob Neyer at espn.com and Dayn Perry at Foxsports.

It’s not so bad.

by richwol1 on Dec 27, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Really?

Link?

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 27, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Links

Here, for instance. (Start at point #4.) Or this shorter discussion on Slate.

The skepticism of Knight-Ridder’s Washington bureau, in contrast to that of most of other media’s, was much commented upon at the time (ie, around 2003-2004).

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Dec 27, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

This stuff is just tedious

I mean the whole thing is really simple if you were paying attention to Scott Ritter (attention whore notwhithstanding) and listening to what Blix et al were saying as they were not allowed to complete their mission, and what folks like Ray McGovern were saying.

The reality is the mainstream corporate media whiffed. And with cause.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 27, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Mainstream Corporate Media Usually Whiffs

If it wasn’t for two reporters at the Washington Post, nobody would have uncovered Watergate. It was only because Robert McNamara was feeling guilty that the Pentagon Papers were ever written, and the Papers themselves might not have been revealed had Ellsberg not gone to Neil Sheehan of the NY Times.

This doesn’t mean that material isn’t often revealed…just that the mainstream media rarely has done its job in that sense. It’s usually individuals either within or outside the system who do their jobs. The New Yorker’s Seymour Hersh uncovered Abu Ghraib. Hopefully, a way will be found to keep reporters on the job, even as newspapers fail.

by richwol1 on Dec 28, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Bruce Jenkins, phshht

He can’t be bothered with facts.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 24, 2009 8:02 AM PST reply actions  

Great piece, PL78 - I really enjoyed it ...

but I disagree with the premise that Bruce Jenkins “hates the A’s.” On the contrary, I think he likes Oakland and would like to see them back in the playoffs. Remember, he covered them for many years, and has never hid his admiration for Henderson, McGwire, Stewart, Eckersley and LaRussa, just to name a few of his favorites.
I agree with you however, when you insist Jenkins’ critique of Milton Bradley was over the top. As you mentioned, “clubhouse chemistry” is very overrated. I just have never understood fans’ fascination with the player’s “personality” or private life. Who gives a damn? Can you play? Good. Sign him up. Give me 24 convicts and a winning team ANY DAY over 24 “nice guys” who can’t make the playoffs.
Once again, teach your kids to love the name on the FRONT of the jersey, and it’ll do ’em much more good in the long run.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Dec 24, 2009 9:46 AM PST reply actions  

I disagree with your 24 convicts idea.

Baseball players have strong, yet often fragile egos.

As a veteran of many kitchens, I know that one bad apple easily can tank the efficiency and morale of a work environment, if allowed.

As fans, we want our highly paid gladiators to suck it up and perform like champions all the time, but they need a good work environment in order to be able to do their best every day without distractions.

"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 25, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I hear ya

my point was just that I don’t care who’s a “good guy” or who’s a “bad guy” … if the guy produces and he’s a jerk? He’s ok by me, because all I care about is winning games. If the guy hits like crap, but he’s a real nice guy? I’m gonna boo him, because all I care about is winning games. What these guys do off the field — what their hobbies are — how they vote — who they screw … means nothing to me. Only one thing matters — did you help my team win?

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Dec 25, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Great work PL.

Bruce Jenkins frustrates me more than I can put into words. I realize he is just a very passionate fan of the Giants, but as a writer, he shouldn’t let that bias affect his work. He also needs to realize that the Giants just went through a worse phase than the A’s are going through now.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Dec 24, 2009 11:03 AM PST reply actions  

I agree, forgot to mention, PL,....excellent work!

thanks very much.
Another AN piece to brag about, IMO.

"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."-Plutarch

by One won lost won on Dec 29, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice, PL78.

That Jenkins article really is something.

And, by the way, Parks and Recreation is hilarious.

Your day breaks, your mind aches.
You find that all her words of kindness linger on
when she no longer needs you.

by danmerqury on Dec 24, 2009 11:15 AM PST reply actions  

Just like most successful TV series,

FireJoeMorgan kept going well past the point of being interesting, and became formulaic and cliched. There’s lots of ways to satirize bad journalism, and there’s certainly no shortage of targets, but like M*A*S*H or Happy Days, FJM eventually reached the point of just writing the same episode over and over again.

Everybody's got a little light under the sun.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 24, 2009 12:33 PM PST reply actions  

Hope you dont mean the Simpsons

that show has run longer than any show and still finds new ways to it.

I’ll hesitantly agree though FJM just kept repeating themselves towards the end, but isnt that the fault of Hat Guy, Joe Morgan et al to try and writing something that looks like it wasnt blurted out in 5 minutes with zero thought put into it? I think that was their goal, to make American journalism better by being accountable for what you write. I’d say a large chunk of baseball writers just spit out cliches based off dated notions, like how many times do we have read this story:

-striking out is baaad mmmkay?
-team chemistry is the most important thing a team can have!
-david eckstein is small so therefore he is an underdog and deserves our respect.
-Derek Jeter’s “calm eyes” are more valuable than A-Rods bat.
-I dont care for these newfangled statistics!
-the team i write for sucks and i’ll listen completely irrelevant and non-researched reasons why!

Its gotta be up to someone to stop this garbage. No matter how many times it gets spit out.

by PL78 on Dec 24, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly?

Out of everything that’s out there, the amount of times I’ve seen columnists talk about the types of examples you give are really few and far between.

I feel like you’re railing against something that is not as prevalent as you think it is. If anything, I hear some of these kinds of things more from the color commentators on Fox and ESPN, not from a newspaper columnist.

As it is, even if some people say it, so what? It’s their column and they can write whatever they want if someone’s willing to pay them for it. You have a few options as far as I can tell:

  • ignore it
  • rip it
  • go out and do a better job of it yourself

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 24, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

There are sooooo many benefits

to never watching ESPN or Fox Sports.

Almost every time I hear someone complaining about some aspect of the baseball world, they’re really just complaining about ESPN. Here’s the answer: Don’t watch ESPN.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Dec 24, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

That is getting increasingly hard to do, you know.

NFL Network and MLB Network do make it significantly easier, tho.

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM

by Leopold Bloom on Dec 24, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions  

It's nigh impossible

‘Sides, the way I sees it, it’s not just ESPN and Fox Sports. Just about every sports broadcast is as unremarkable as the next. They’re all using the same formulas, the same clichés, the same terrible analysis. Maybe it’s just because I was younger at the time, but I remember actually enjoying the input of the announcers when I was growing up. Now? There are maybe 5 I can think of that I would actually want to listen to.

by Joey C. on Dec 26, 2009 8:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Hmph.

I find it very easy to avoid ESPN. Then again, I avoid a lot of things you kids find essential. Cell phones, Facebook, television, etc.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Dec 27, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

People who avoid television truly miss out on some wonderful, wonderful things

There’s a lot of garbage out there, but the truly great TV shows are as worthwhile as the best contemporary literature has to offer.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 29, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I concede the point,

but the same could be said for most other media. The reality is there’s no way to keep up with everything wonderful and worthwhile out there.

And I don’t actually 100% avoid television. I do have one, and even have cable to go with it, and I watch occasionally. (Though I have found that the shows I most appreciate and the ones commonly called “truly great” are only weakly correlated.)

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Dec 29, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

There are enough, such that

FJM was able to post multiple articles a week – the most common topics listed before.

by echerrst on Dec 27, 2009 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I should say Im definitely not comparing Chavvy to Carlos Silva

When Chavez plays, he’s good. He just about never does though so he’s got about as value as Silva, even if Silva plays a full year.

Also, strange edit at the end to whoever did that? There’s tons of swear words throughout why not censor them too?

by PL78 on Dec 24, 2009 1:40 PM PST reply actions  

I edited it, because I don't like seeing a person called a bunch of profanities,

and while we don’t have “bad llanguage guidelines,” per se, sometimes I see something that I feel it too over the top and makes the blog look bad (and people like Bruce Jenkins, and Ray Ratto, and Mychael Urban, do read the blog, and I don’t especially want them to see themselves referred to this way), and so then I’ll “meddle.” There’s nothing you have to say that can’t be said without insulting people to that extreme and/or using strings of profanities directed at them.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 25, 2009 5:32 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks, both, I appreciate it.

I am very hesitant to edit others’ writing, but there are occasional times where I feel it’s in the best interests of the blog, or that it’s the ethical thing to do — and it’s not as if a sentence like that just has to be there.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 25, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I wasn't going to bring it up myself...

…but as much as I don’t mind swearing (shit, I swear at times) in expressing thoughts and don’t think it automatically detracts from a point, calling someone a “fucking asshole” simply for expressing his POV in a column you disagree with does cross the line in my eyes.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 25, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Screw you, you moran.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 26, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Flashfire and Nico

I agree with both of you.

FF is spot on in that the entire point of these articles are that they are indeed “fan” posts, I never refer to myself as a journalist. I enjoy writing all kinds of things but mostly, I am an A’s fan who doesn’t like it when people make poorly researched judgments on my team. If you say something with no logic behind it, or even worse you are in a position of power to try and make things more difficult for them, Im going to call you an asshole.

Nico, I also agree with you in trying to “class up” the place and not take swearing-shots at another human being. If only sarcasm worked on the internet! Id just have written “Thanks Bruce, thanks”.

by PL78 on Dec 26, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

An alternative could be politely explaining to the writer...

…either on their site or in private, how and why you think he’s wrong.

It’s easy for people to read a column and get their anger up, whether they’re reacting to something that’s actually there or they’re projecting. A writer’s history should also be taken into account, especially if he’s known for holding certain opinions about a team for an extended time.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 26, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions  

why would he note what a random person says though?

A problem in the media is that he only has to please his editor, not the readership. There is that little box at the end of the column for “comments” I suppose, but how do we know he even reads them?

Like, why be accountable if you don’t have to be? It would be better journalism and writing certainly, but another one of my points is that this “old guard” often revels in the fact they get paid to do what they do, and we don’t.

by PL78 on Dec 26, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Columnists may not have to care about what anyone except the person writing their checks thinks...

…but that’s not how things often work in the real world. As much as anything, feedback from readers – good or bad – is the only way for a columnist to know what the masses think.

If there’s a place for comments, you can pretty much guarantee they’re reading them.

The ones who gloat about being paid while we aren’t don’t deserve your time or mine in the first place.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 26, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

from experience

The horse jumped over the f---ing fence. / My photography

by JLaff on Dec 26, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

If I were a columnist, I sure as hell wouldn't

read the comments. I find that 90% of comments are just assholes or idiots making nasty and/or stupid comments. Or at least at most newspaper-type websites they are.

Sure, fine to give them a voice, but to actually read them and subject yourself to all their casual hostility strikes me as unhealty and unnecessary.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Dec 27, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions  

That helps you develop a thicker skin

Or fall into lowering yourself to their level, which some have done.

The days of getting a phone call or a letter sent to the paper are mostly over.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 27, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, and on top of that some of them practically LIVE for the reactions

Look at Tim Kawakami and how many comments each one of his blog columns generate. Part of it is he invites it with the style he has, but he’s also doing more standard work aside from that.

I think in general, the more reactions someone generates the more proof there is that people are reading, justifying paying them. If nobody reacted, that’d be bad.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 27, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Accountability (or lack thereof)

seems to be one of the biggest drivers, IMO, of the shouting blogopshere. Anyone can say what they want, with no sources, because they are accountable to no one. At least with paid journalists, in theory they have a reputation to protect and a paycheck to earn. The problem is when they became arrogant and turned this thing on its head by realizing that they were in a position to themselves not have sources.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

by cuppingmaster on Dec 29, 2009 7:41 AM PST up reply actions  

I loved the erstwhile site you refer to

But this overlong piece is badly written.

Bruce Jenkins was often a rightful target of firejoemorgan. But I didn’t feel as though what he wrote this time was so bad. And I find it funny that even when the guy wants to praise the A’s, he gets torn to shreds, in writing that, even as it mocks another’s lack of precision and insight, isn’t all that precise and insightful itself.

And there is likely some basis for concern over a philosophy that might overpraise patience and on base percentage as a fundamental tenet. Though in the end players can be reduced to statistics that are immensely valuable and predictive, the players themselves are still human beings whose performance may be harmed by the A’s philosophy.

It’s not just Bobby Crosby’s crotchety old former ballplayer dad who has made this point. It’s other players. It’s the evidence of the Angels’ success, which, yes, takes aggression too far, but may reveal residual benefits that we can’t measure. What I mean is that maybe their players continually hit for a higher average than our players not just because their players are inherently better, but because they’ve adopted a philosophy that positively affects them in their ability to hit.

by RLangford on Dec 25, 2009 8:07 PM PST reply actions  

Or that even if all this isn't true, it's fair for a writer to suggest it

Not everything one disagrees with is “pure rubbish.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 25, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions  

You're making a totally false assumption though

I remember Nick Swisher (I think) said, at some point, that the A’s never told him he had to be more patient coming up through the minors (though they did try to get him to repeat his minors approach when he first came up and was swinging at everything). Why? Because the A’s don’t – and never have – tried to change players. They always drafted players who fit their philosophy.

So, no, the point isn’t valid. The players won’t be harmed by the A’s philosophy because that’s their inherent style anyway. And if it’s not, the A’s work with what you’ve got as any team should.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 27, 2009 12:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Beane has also gone out and acquired

Jay Payton and Nomar. He’ll add free swingers if he thinks they add enough else to be worthwhile additions.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 27, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Of course

And my point is evident in those two guys. The A’s didn’t try to change them fundamentally as players.

Hell, the only guy there was an effort to change was Cust, the guy you should least be trying to change of all of them!

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 29, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't agree with you on the Bradley stuff
Its just a guy who didn’t get along with a notorious psycho manager, he’s not the boogeyman

Not true. Sure, Piniella did call Bradley a piece of shit to a reporter in July, but the real reason Bradley had to go? Because you can’t win very many games when 24 of the guys on your roster are incarcerated for first-degree murder. When Hendry announced to the team he had suspended Bradley, there was a STANDING OVATION when Hendry left the room. Multiple players (Dempster comes to mind) spoke out openly about how glad they were he was gone from the team.

Look, I don’t believe everybody has to love each other. Chemistry is overrated. But when you’ve got a guy that is so abhorred by his teammates, you have to get rid of him. And, for what it’s worth, he wasn’t very good last year anyway.

The Cubs could’ve done worse here. They could’ve eaten the entire contract. They didn’t. While Silva is truly awful, they might get lucky with him. If not, at least they don’t have to deal with the Bradley headache anymore.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 27, 2009 12:13 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

I still don't get what the big deal is about a guy whose career high for games in a season is 141...

…and he averages 94 a year. That’s 58% of a full season.

Milton Bradley is talented as hell but he’s an injury-prone headcase.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 27, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Honestly, after reading this

Im starting to think that theres a genuine vendetta against Milton. Sure he’s not the best citizen out there, but he puts it down fairly bluntly that he will never accept being treated like a second class citizen or take any racist comments from anyone (hello Boston “incident”)

http://ussmariner.com/2009/12/28/unawaited-milton-bradley-chronology/

This in particular shows where his head is really at:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2141482

So yeah, Im starting to stand by Milton now after reading all that evidence, when taken into account writers are just waiting for him to do something, ANYTHING out of the ordinary, this microscope he’s under certainly doesnt apply to all players in the game, and its a bummer his repuation is in the toilet because of writers like Jenkins.

by PL78 on Dec 28, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry,

But Milton is his own worst enemy. Something about self fulfilling prophecy comes to mind. Let’s be real, if you’re looking to be offended 24/7, eventually someone will oblige you.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 28, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

How DARE you say that I'm looking to be offended 24/7?

Now I’m going to write lame posts until Blez fires me. {Sorry, continue to write lame posts…}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 28, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow

You really just don’t get it.

What part of that timeline makes you think Milton Bradley has been dragged thru the mud by a media vendetta?

The guy misbehaves every few days. He’s immature is all it comes down to.

by SeanR on Dec 28, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Kind of funny how even if writers are just waiting for him to do something...

…he actually does something eventually to justify the closer attention that’s paid to him.

Milton has nobody to blame for his problems other than himself. Maybe he’s a nice guy and misunderstood and looked at more closely than everyone else, but he gives people reasons for it over and over again.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 28, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Writers lay in waiting, and fans proactively taunt him, both of which are patently unfair.

Yet at the end of the day, Milton is his own worst enemy. The 6th or 7th time that “It’s not you”? It’s you.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 28, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

What I mean is

If Milton says “If someone calls me (n-word) Im going to beat them silly” is that really that bad a thing? Sure he’s immature, but at least he puts himself out there. Of course Boston idiot fans are going to use the racist term, so he went after them. A+B=C.

And I was waiting for a real deal thing in that USS Mariner post where I say out loud “Oh wow, this guy is a real jerk to have on the team, to the point where having him is going to make you lose games”, but that didnt come. Its mostly just little things, he’s not Dick Allen but he’s getting treated like him. So yeah I was waiting for these terrible, team-destroying things he’s done and didnt see anything that wasnt justified (sorry if I justify going after fans racially taunting a player)

Then I remember: him and Swisher dancing in the dugout.
Then I remember: how on fire he was in the later half of 2006.
Then I think: this “milton bradley being bad for team chemistry thing is a bunch of shit.”

by PL78 on Dec 28, 2009 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

He's great until it goes bad.

You’re remembering the “honeymoon stage,” and that stage is real. And it always goes the same way eventually, because Milton and “being in the public eye” are just not a good mix — and “the public” is a constant; Milton is a guy who can’t handle that constant.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 28, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions  

What you said

Milton’s first season here was awesome. I remember after the ALCS him coming back to get his stuff from the locker room, there being fans outside the ballpark to welcome them back including some with a sign for him, and him saying something like it was the first time he really felt like he belonged somewhere.

Then I remember the next season when he was hurt again and things went south between him and the team.

In other words, same ol’ Milton once things got tough.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 28, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

You know the saying:

“When the going gets tough, the tough get an owie.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 28, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

No. Because that stuff about Bradley on the Cubs didn't come out until WAY after it happened

If the media was looking to kill him, this stuff would’ve been known immediately.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 29, 2009 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Today...

…and for everyday after, we are all Firing Joe Morgan.

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

by ZacharyCF on Dec 27, 2009 1:58 PM PST reply actions  

Hey guys, seeing as I'm not a real journalist

I made some edits based off some of the comments here (how dare I!) I like the piece a lot better now. Thanks Nico for the advice, I am not the best of editors…

by PL78 on Dec 28, 2009 12:51 PM PST reply actions  

LOL, back atcha.

The edits are much appreciated; I think they make the piece better, too.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 28, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

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