Wallace Becomes Taylor? Emotionally Confusing But Objectively Positive
by Nico on Dec 15, 2009 6:15 PM PST
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PrintFirst of all, the A's should at least have taken the opportunity to acquire someone named Michael Gromit. But I suppose Michael Taylor will do, seeing as he actually exists and appears to be quite the toolsy young man. With this post, I address three separate issues: How it felt, emotionally, to learn of this trade, how the trade looks to me, objectively, and how I predict the A's will move forward from here.
Emotionally, my first reaction when I heard about the (presumed) trade was, "Noooooo!" because I have spent the last year thinking about "Carter, Wallace, and Cardenas." That's been my mantra. I know, shocking that I haven't been focused on "Kennedy, Eveland, and Hairston," but I haven't been. What got me through the 2009 season, and was going to sustain me as long as need be in 2010? "Carter, Wallace, and Cardenas."
The A's haven't had a really good hitter come up for so long, and I was looking forward to seeing Wallace and the sweet swing I've heard so much about. So I can't help but have a visceral reaction of disappointment to learn that his Oakland A's career will fall 2 games short of one Ryan Langerhans.
Objectively, though, I like the trade. The odds are better than not that Wallace's future is not on the left side of the infield, though frankly I will follow his career with true fascination because opinions on his defensive potential are so varied. And for the A's to trade a 1Bman or DH who can hit, for an OFer who can hit -- and run, and play defense -- is simply a good deal.
The more I read about Taylor, the more excited I am. Here's a guy who appears to have the profile of Jermaine Dye and the potential to be better (or the same, or worse -- that's the thing about a prospect). He is just the kind of player Beane has been saying he's looking for this Winter: 23, full of tools, a potential impact player who, if he is good, could be with the A's for many years alongside the core of Suzuki, Sweeney, Barton, Anderson, Cahill, Bailey, Carter, Cardenas...
What's Next? I realize that Fox and McPherson might see some time at 3B and that Chavez will be Plan A for as long as it's possible, but I have to think the A's are now in a position to deal from the OF and address the infield.
I think Ryan Sweeney will be an everyday RFer, because he was so good defensively, and the A's clearly believe in him, that I don't see them moving him to another team or moving him out of RF. I think Rajai Davis will be the CFer, because he's pretty cheap, and gives you guaranteed good defense at a key defensive position. I think if not Opening Day, then soon after, Michael Taylor will be the LFer -- giving the A's, if they keep those three, a really good defensive OF. Carter starts at AAA, Cunningham is either 4th OFer or starts at AAA, and Hairston is either a 4th OFer, or is traded if there's interest.
Buck is trade bait. Might the Tigers, having shed Curtis Granderson, be interested in a cheap, LH OFer like Buck? Perhaps -- depends on whether they think he's any good. The A's should go after (I may have mentioned this once or twice before) Brandon Inge!!!!!!, offering Buck, or Hairston, as part of a trade that is largely a salary dump for Detroit, but is a chance to fill a real need for Oakland.
Maybe you end up with this lineup in April or May, with Carter on the way to make things really interesting:
Davis - CF
Barton - 1B
Sweeney - RF
Fox/McPherson - DH
Suzuki - C
Taylor - LF
Inge - 3B
Ellis - 2B
Pennington - SS
We're getting there, folks. And it's only December 15th...
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You ever get that...
…not so first feeling?
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 15, 2009 11:53 PM PST up reply actions
i think doing "FIRST"
is CGV-worthy on some sites…just saying…
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
Roomy.
Your day breaks, your mind aches.
You find that all her words of kindness linger on
when she no longer needs you.
why don't you try commenting
instead of just being a WOW I’m first troll
God I hate that DH combo
I really, really, REALLY hope I’m wrong about it though.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
But I like the Inge acquisition.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Inge
is due to make 6.5 mil next season. I imagine that the “rebuilding” A’s would probably want Detroit to pick up 2-3 mil of that salary. Perhaps the A’s could sweeten the pot by including a reliever – we’ve got plenty of them while Detroit’s bullpen has already been thinned out by Rodney and Lyon’s departures. Buck + Jay Marshal and Jared Lansford or Buck + Blevins – something like that.
I think Detroit's main reason to trade him is to delete his salary
For the A’s to avoid giving up a better prospect, they take more salary. Even though they’re rebuilding, Oakland needs a 3Bman for 2010 and the A’s want to be just competitive enough that they can try to “hang around” while seeing how good LAA, SEA, and TEX are.
And the A’s can well afford to take on a $6.5mil salary, thanks in part to their recent moves. I don’t think Beane would be opposed to spending that much on a veteran if it fills a key need, and as a 3Bman with some power, Inge does.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
maybe
but the A’s could probably sign a DeRosa or Crede to a 1 year deal for less than 6 mil. I think if they went the Inge route, they’d want Detroit to pick up part of the salary. Detroit would still be knocking 3 or 4 million off their payroll.
I guess I’d rather take the Andy LaRoche (young former prospect) route, see if he could be had for Cunningham or Buck or both and a couple arms.
derosa will be more
than one year, i would almost guarantee that. crede, maybe…but he’s like eric ahvez jr. with that back of his
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
I was one of the early advocaters of Inge around these here parts
but I have to say, I’d much rather have Cust, Fox and $2.5M than Inge, Fox and no money.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
yeah, If its between Cust and Inge I'll take Cust.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
OTOH
2010 Coliseum promotion: “See Brandon Inge play all nine positions” day.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 16, 2009 7:31 AM PST up reply actions
shortly followed by 'see Oakland play nine 1B/DH'
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Inge vs Cust
Inge! I suppose the A’s could use his 170 k’s from 2009, his 0.230 BA, and all of 54 walks! I’ve got friends who are Tiger fans and feel about Inge like many on this site did about Crosby. No Inge, please!
RAC
I.e., No F---Inge Way!
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 16, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
Speculation
Basically me adding “Brandon Inge!!!!!!1111” to my posts 3-4 times.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Inge positions
Also, I know Inge plays a little bit of catcher too, so doesn’t this open possibility of getting a little more at bats for Powell?
Theoretically, you could more freely DH Powell
but I don’t think the A’s are actually that keen to get him a lot of DH at bats.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Also
If your only in need of an emergency catcher Jake Fox could probably fill the role adequately. He was moved off of catcher a few years ago, presumably because he was terrible, but he at least has the experience to be an emergency option if you want to find more AB’s for Powell.
Daric Barton, too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd be a little more skeptical of Barton
He only played 1 season of catcher after high school and made the permanent switch back in ’05. Fox was catcher through three seasons of college ball and played 277 games at catcher in the minors before moving permanently in ’07.
Although that might be picking nits when it comes to emergency catchers who you would really hope not to use.
New market strategy
We should trade for Inge, Jayson Werth, Buster Posey (for his versatility), bring up Donaldson and convince Biggio to come out retirement to have a lineup full of catchers in it. Alternatively trade for Russell Martin if we want preserve Donaldson’s service time (since we know how valuable it is these days) or stick him at 2B if Biggio wants to stay retired.
C Suzuki
1B Barton
2B Biggio
3B Donaldson
SS Posey
RF Werth
LF Fox
CF Inge
DH Powell
by rightbackin on Dec 16, 2009 12:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
perfect
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
Why would a rebuilding team need salary relief?
A rebuilding team is more concerned about its prospects, not money committed in the short term. Considering that the A’s ‘10 payroll stands right now at 20MM, and will probably be about 25MM after arb raises, the A’s have more than enough cheddar to take all the salary and hold the prospects.
See: Toronto paying 6MM salary in the Halladay trade.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
So you're saying I shouldn't jump of this bridge Nico?
Well alright I’ll take your word for it that this is a good move but if you hear about a handsome man who jumped off a bridge in 2011 after watching an A’s game know that death is on you!
or off this bridge
thank goodness they don’t pay me to teach kids how to spell or type. Oh and I’m with mikev I like the idea of Inge as well.
What does this do to Desme?
I was hoping to see him get some at bats in the bigs.
Not much.
Rajai Davis is not a long term solution.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
And he's a couple years away. A LOT can happen...
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
he's at least a year away
You simply can’t jump from High A ball to the bigs and expect to have success.
I believe Beane said they’d start him it Midland and move him to Sacto if he finds early success…
"Did you know you can comment on Athletics Nation from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say."
by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2009 6:38 PM PST up reply actions
Especially a guy with glaring "issues" like Desme's K rate
He’s not a guy to fast-track.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes -- he's still a long-shot to be a good major-leaguer
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
My reactions
1. Relief that I don’t have to fool myself that I think Wallace might stick at 3B
2. Phew! Reading about this will pass the afternoon in a much more interesting way than writing about SEO strategies
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
www.goalsonfilm.com
I know, right?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
www.goalsonfilm.com
I'm listening to SEO Speedwagon's greatest hits
right now.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 15, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
heard from a friend who heard from a friend who....
True story. My brother was a big concert-goer back in the eighties and had occasion to see REO in Terre Haute, Indiana.
Lead singer Kevin Cronin from the stage, “NOBODY rocks like Terre Haute!”
A moment to say. A lifetime to mock.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 1:19 AM PST up reply actions
I'm sure that got a HUGE cheer, too.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
I hate trades like this
Usually one goes on to stardom and the other turns out to be the bust and with the A’s luck Taylor will be the bust.
Name one other trade like this
I can’t.
"[Sabean] said Kevin Pucetas maintains some value on the trade market, which they take as a positive sign that he’d be a productive option."
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
Still we need more trades
What is next for Beane? I do agree it is getting more likely buck is traded. The next move Beane makes will be signing a 3b for this season now that Wallace is all gone.
In my dreams, "next" is ponying up the $25M+ for Aroldis Chapman
David Forst was there at his throwing session today, along with reps from about 15 teams.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2009 7:14 PM PST up reply actions
After Prieto
I am a little scared of giving that much out for a cuban pitcher since none has hit it big here.
by Arcman on Dec 15, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think one would have to objectively call Contreras a success
even though he’s had some bad seasons.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
El Duque worked out well
and his little brother has been serviceable, too.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
but we
drafted Prieto – we didn’t sign him as a free agent. I don’t know what’s worse,though, wasting your 1st round pick on a guy like that when you could have drafted Roy Halladay or Todd Helton, or squandering millions on an international free agent flop.
The draft pick is obviously much worse
In one scenario you’re just out the money. In the other you’re out the money and the pick (which, as you’ve stated, could’ve been someone else).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Dec 15, 2009 9:29 PM PST up reply actions
Well, sort of
I mean, the IFA is going to cost a lot MORE money…
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
I read today where the A's sent three people down to see Chapman today and one was Forst.
They may actually try to get him
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Obviously one of them had to be Forst.
The others were second and third.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
spelling error
That should be “socond and thord”
Socond and Thord?
Those are minor characters in the Asterix comics, right?
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 15, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions
I think I heard
they will be in the new Thor movie
Ooo! Piece of candy!
by ChickenStanley on Dec 16, 2009 12:43 AM PST up reply actions
Starting pitching looks like a glaring need
Considering that
1- Outman isn’t going to be ready to start the season
2- Mazzaro and Cahill clearly belong in AAA for multiple reasons
3- Dusty Bakering Braden and Anderson is bad
you’ve got a rotation of Braden-Anderson-Gio-Mortensen-????,
Some cheap FA SP would be nice to bring in.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Or of course Chapman, who's not cheap and my first choice
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
but Chapman
shouldn’t start 2010 in the majors. And depending on how his first season goes, he maybe shouldn’t even start 2011 in the majors.
Nah
I think the rotation is pretty close to set in managements eyes (unless there are some injuries)…
1. Anderson
2. Braden
3. Cahill
4. Gio Gonzalez
5. Vin Mazzaro
I really expect Gio to have a breakout year. Cahill and Mazzaro will be much improved. These guys should all be well versed by 2011 – 2014
by Colorado Fan on Dec 16, 2009 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
Trevor Cahill is so NOT a #3 starter in MLB yet.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I'm not convinced he's a #3 starter in AAA yet.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
Does the order really matter?
Just trying to break up the Lefties. It should save the bullpen more if you go L, L, R, L, R… and Cahill is better than Mazzaro.
by Colorado Fan on Dec 18, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure Mazzaro needs more AAA time
I think he’s at the point of needing to learn at the big league level.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 16, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd because you're making a very good point.
Cahill and Mazzaro could be sent back to AAA, but would it really do any good? They need to learn how to be consistent against big league hitters, not minor league ones who can’t hit a breaking pitch.
I think short of Duke coming back the, the rotation will be:
1)Braden
2)Anderson
3)Cahill
4)Gonzalez
5)Mazzaro
And if Duke DOES come back then let the 5 of um “Duke” it out in spring training.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Dec 16, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
But cahill hasn't thrown the breaking pitch to ML hitters since July
how will he improve it if he doesn’t throw it?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
I like this trade...
We project to have 2 really big power hitting right-handed bats in the middle of the order for a long time. While Carter might not make it in the field, Taylor will. Screw Buck. Cunningham, et al… Carter/Brown/Taylor for years to come… Very nice.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Don't forget Cardenas
A potential .300 hitter who might be a good defensive 3Bman or 2Bman.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yep... I'm with ya...
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
I see him as the next Placido Polanco.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Emil is back?!?!?
Hang on while i renew my season tickets :D
Fuck you Bob Geren
by supermarc589 on Dec 15, 2009 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
He's talking about Corey, not Emil, Andrew, Jeremy or Domonic
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
or Murphy
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i know
that was a joke
Fuck you Bob Geren
by supermarc589 on Dec 15, 2009 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
Not Dee?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Rosenthal
He says A’s liked Taylor going back to last summer in phillies holliday discussions. I’m assuming they settled for Wallace and they probably preffered Taylor since and jumped at the chance to get him this time.
But he can't, with Nacho Bel Grande on the beat!
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Dec 15, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions
That lineup is depressing
I love Sweeney, but good lord not in the 3 hole. He needs to show more pop than he has before that promotion.
Baja been here
Well, once Taylor is established
you can just flip him with Sweeney. I was acknowledging that you don’t bring up a rookie to hit #3/#4. And against RHP, having Barton and Sweeney in OBP spots ahead of the “RBI guys” is a pretty good way to build a lineup, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm not in the know.
Is there a good scouting report on our newest A’s member?
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Although I've never even heard of Taylor, I love it!
I was never comfortable with Wallace. Too much uncertainty surrounding him.
Sickles: Taylor across between Hunter Pence and Mike Cameron
Buck was supposed to be the next rusty greer or paul o’neill, putnam a brian giles type. So lets just see how taylor does when he gets to the majors
People actually called Putnam the next Brian Giles? Like, serious people?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Dec 15, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
Sweeney's the next Swisher, ironically.
Once he’s really established himself as a bona-fide, first-division right fielder, I think he’ll be dealt.
I don’t think there’s any way that Carter or Taylor open the season on the big club. Combined, they’ve played 43 games in AAA. They are a part of a different wave of players, and that wave – not Sweeney’s wave – is the one that will lead the A’s back to the playoffs.
Sadly, the Sweeney/Rajai wave very well could be gone by then, if you look at Beane’s past trading history. If the A’s clearly aren’t in contention – which I definitely don’t think they’ll be by the end of 2010, or even the beginning of 2011 – Beane would prefer to trade attractive assets with 2-4 years of contractual control remaining rather than watch those assets slowly lose value as they creep toward free agency on non-contending A’s teams. Witness Street, Swisher, Haren, etc.
With that in mind, here’s my prediction:
a.) Opening Day ‘10: Hairston/Davis/Sweeney in the OF, Patterson on the bench, a star-studded AAA outfield in Sac. That starting major league trio is on the Trade Value Building Tour in ’10. Fingers crossed that Hairston remains healthy, and the A’s can sell him as the most attractive LFer on the trade market at the FA deadline.
b.) Offseason ‘11: In the rosy scenario, Davis established himself as a legitimate starting center fielder in ’10, outstanding defense without regressing to his pre-’08 self offensively. Sweeney’s outstanding defense in RF proves to be for real in ‘10, and he’s finally able to hit .300, stay healthy, and hits 10 homers. Both players finish 2010 with 3+ years of service time coming off two consecutive good seasons…one or both get dealt for prospects.
Opening Day ’11: Open the floodgates. With a full year of AAA under their belt, this is when I expect Taylor, Carter, Desme, and Cunningham to own the Oakland outfield. Not sooner.
That’s a distinctly different wave of players than the guys who currently have 2+ years of service: Suzuki, Davis, Sweeney, etc. That latter group, sadly, might not be in an Oakland uniform the next time this team makes the playoffs. That’s the pattern we’ve recently seen with Beane, anyway. Those three guys’ best chance of staying in an Oakland uniform all the way through to their free agent years is for this team to look like a legitimate playoff contender entering 2011. If the team still looks far away at that point, it makes more sense to trade them for prospects and continue the cycle.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2009 7:12 PM PST reply actions
I don't quite agree
I think it’s more likely that Rajai only plays one more season in Oakland, and Taylor slides over to CF (assuming he can — if not, then this isn’t exactly how it plays out, obviously), with Carter (or Doolittle) in LF.
I get the feeling the A’s really like Sweeney. He’s probably one of the main guys other teams insisted on at the Winter Meetings that caused Beane to say “then, no, sorry — we’re not trading those guys.” Suzuki and Anderson (don’t know about the other SPs) would also be in that category, along with Carter and Cardenas.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
haha
i still cant believe we got cardenas for blanton.
silly phillies
Fuck you Bob Geren
by supermarc589 on Dec 15, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
Blanton did help them win a World Series so I doubt they're too disappointed with the trade even now
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Yeah -- seems to me like the Haren and Blanton trades were both "win-win" deals.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd call Haren a clear loss for Arizona, but they couldn't have known at the time
that several players (Owings, Drew, Jackson, Young) who appeared to be studs in the making would ultimately turn out to be fairly mediocre.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
AZ would've had a pretty incredible core built around Upton and the guys they sent us.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe we should just get Upton then
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I consider Haren a win for Arizona
because they were able to sign him to an affordable extension. To get that many years out of a legitimate ace justifies the trade, IMO. Obviously they had hoped to be more competitive during the Haren years, but to me that’s not part of the “trade itself.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Look, I agree that the trade made sense at the time
but there is no way anyone could possibly argue that the RESULTS of the trade are good. They’ve been horrible— Arizona hasn’t been competitive in either of the seasons he’s been there. They haven’t “won.” (Well, technically the A’s haven’t either, but they look decently set to in the next few years.)
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
Isn't this a different argument?
The D-Backs have been bad, but that doesn’t make the trade bad. Haren has performed at the level established before his trade, if not slightly above. I think the D-Backs got exactly what they were asking for, making the trade a “win” for them. yes, the team sucks, but so have the A’s since the trade, and that doesn’t make the trade a “loss” for the A’s either.
Nah
Haren was a win for the D’Backs.
It’s not his fault the rest of the team took a dump.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Did the rest of the team at least give a courtesy flush, first?
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
:-(
That’s too bad. I think Sweeney is in RF to stay. So then either Taylor is in LF and neither Carter nor Doolittle plays OF for the A’s, or…I have no idea.
I think I’ll go with the latter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Right, but assuming he's not about to deal
Taylor, Sweeney, or Carter it’s more unclear how the corner OF will play out. (There’s also Cunningham and possibly Doolittle.)
Yes, not all prospects even pan out but since Davis is 29 and no one else plays CF as their best position, one has to assume that going forward, CF is still an unknown long-term.
Taylor and Sweeney look like “keepers” who are very, very likely to be in the big leagues from 2010 on. This would leave exactly 0 every day starting spots for Cunningham, Carter, Doolittle in the OF. Just interesting.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
short term DAvis is CF, BEane has a bit of time on that one
I’m wondering what’s going to happen with 3B this coming season/
I keep thinking that another package (including someone we don’t want to see leave) will be necessary in order to trade for a good 3Bman.
I can't see a good 3B being available via trade
anytime soon
The Nats SHOULD trade Zimmerman, it would be the kind of move that if done right, would push Washington several years ahead, like the Haren trade did for the A’s.
But, if the move is being done right, and Rizzo is much smarter than Bowden, then the A’s are giving up elite prospect talent out the wazoo.
I want to see Dayton Moore do something stupid and trade Alex Gordon. But then Teahen was already traded and Gordon’s the only 3Bman on that roster, so that ship has sailed.
Or Omar Minaya listens to the NY media and sends David Wright packing. But then that’s even less likely and should cost him his job. Of course that’s pipe dream right there.
Or of course Brandon Freaking Wood…that would be interesting.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Rizzo just signed Pudge for 2 years and real money.
HE ain’t THAT bright.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
fields is in kc now
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Dec 17, 2009 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
If Taylor played CF, he would probably be the biggest centerfielder to ever play the game.
Imagine Frank Thomas roaming the outfield….
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
Hmm... Thomas strikes me more as a SS.
Yeah, it does seem like a stretch just based on the height/weight. I thought I recalled a scouting report suggesting it was a possibility, but the more I read up on him and the more I see his physical stats, the more I realize I must have mis-remembered.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I saw a video clip today of Taylor taking grounders at SS
I believe it was at college but can’t be sure. He looked very young.
let me see if I can find it
Great find -- thanks
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I like how you put “let me see hif I can find it” and “here it is” in the same post, like you wanted to make sure we knew you had to go search for the video. lol
"[Sabean] said Kevin Pucetas maintains some value on the trade market, which they take as a positive sign that he’d be a productive option."
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
"Tarry not on the subject, danmerqury, for the heathen will surely be cleansed by the hellefire cast downe upon him by Bill James Moste High, praise his name."
by LongLiveLangerhans on Dec 16, 2009 12:41 AM PST up reply actions
that's a cute theory
but it’s not actually what happened.
I wrote about it,then realized that I hadn’t bookmarked the link, so I had to go find it. There was a lag time between “let me see if I can find it” and “here it is”.
Did you know you can do that without having to do two posts?
Dude, chill
It was a joke
"[Sabean] said Kevin Pucetas maintains some value on the trade market, which they take as a positive sign that he’d be a productive option."
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 16, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
"Dude looks like a lay-dee!..."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
you can definitely tell he is an outfielder
he takes a lot of time and steps to unload the baseball and throw it to 1st.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I saw a picture of ten-year-old Frank Thomas
with his baseball team of ten-year-olds. Frank is about a good foot taller, and his frame equaled 2x the other individual ten-year-olds. I don’t know where to find it, but it is an amazing “team” shot.
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."-Plutarch
by One won lost won on Dec 15, 2009 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
Frank Thomas once saved a woman's son by lifting the car he was pinned under.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 1:22 AM PST up reply actions
I love how you word this.
Was the saved person also a man’s son?
"Starbucks doesn’t change its logo just because it no longer serves naked mermaids in Fremont." —Librocrat
He never knew his father, so essentially he was fatherless.
As we all are, unless we take a DNA test.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
Frank Thomas once knocked over Mt. Davis with a HR
and then pulled it back up. I here there is video evidence for 2006.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
"hear" "from" 2006
dag nab it!
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Suzuki and Anderson
will/should be the two guys Beane locks up for years to come. Sweeney, I agree, might stick around for his D, with the possibility of improvement on offense. Davis, Buck, Cunningham, Hairston, are most likely to go first…..
Really hope there are more moves coming. I’d still like to see Duke re-signed or Bedard, to a one year deal.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Interesting
But a beer says Taylor and Carter play in Oakland in 2010.
The monster at the end of this blog.
for the most part, the only things beer says to me are
buyyyyyy meeeee, buyyyyyyyyy me
and then
driiiiiiiiiiink me, driiiiiiiiink me
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
www.goalsonfilm.com
If the beer is talking to you...
I suggest spending more time with the vodka.
The monster at the end of this blog.
oh yes, the vodka can actually hold a proper conversation
rather than just being a foul temptress
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
www.goalsonfilm.com
the only thing vodka ever said to me was,
“You can get the case of beer and the carton of cigarettes in your car and get out of there before they catch you.”
and
“Hey, Ray’s no longer in the room—you should try to sleep with his girlfriend.”
and
“Fuck that job—there’s plenty more out there.”
and
“Did you see the way he was staring at you? You should hit him over the head with me.”
and
…well, I guess the vodka talked a lot.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 1:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sweet, sweet...
Nah, I just can’t do this. But I did really enjoy your loquacious spirits.
In your defense
Ray’s girlfriend was HAWT
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I hear they said congratulations
And when you open the fridge generally there’s hoopla involved.
"[Sabean] said Kevin Pucetas maintains some value on the trade market, which they take as a positive sign that he’d be a productive option."
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
Please no.
Well, at least NOT opening day.
Keep service time down, please.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Buck should be worried
Or find some other career soon.
Buck's gone.
But I was saying that before the A’s acquired a kick-ass major-league-ready OF prospect.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This trade helps barton at least in the short term
Buries Buck further in the pit of mediocrity. I’d pretty much take a free 40 man spot for him or some equally overhyped former top prospect that has disappointed. Andy Laroche please
When did AN decide the Buck will never make it back to the majors? (not just based on your comment MM23)
I know he was in BB’s doghouse this year but was he that terrible in AAA? (I’m really asking) He had success in the majors before, why couldn’t it happen again after he gets his stuff together? I agree that the possibilty of it happening in Oakland is slim but why not somewhere else?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
It seems like there have been several opportunities for promotion that he's been passed on.
That and with Sweeney, Davis, Hairston and now likely Taylor in the OF mix there’s just no room for him. I assume he’s coming to spring training, but he’s going to have to kick serious ass to unseat one of those guys. Both Davis and Sweeney played themselves into first dibs for a starting spot, and it sounds like they want to give Hairston a chance at starting when he’s healthy.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 16, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
yeah he needs to keep those child support checks flowing for you
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 16, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
i thought we determined paternity yesterday
by OakA'sHoney on Dec 16, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
I know, flowing from him, to me, then to you
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 16, 2009 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
I understand that he is fallen down the A's perceived depth chart
I’m just wondering why and why people seem to think he will always suck now? I’ve decided to look up his stats myself. His AAA stats the last 2 seasons have been OK I guess (not an expert am I) but his MLB stats are not very good. I guess injuries play a big part in the last two seasons. I suppose it’s just wishful thinking on my part that he will stay healthy and return to his 2007 numbers
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
His AAA numbers the last two years have actually been very poor
His MLE OPSs have been in the low-to-mid .600s. There’s utterly no justification for the (oft-repeated) statement that he was “passed up” for promotions this last year. He wasn’t. Other guys played significantly better than he did. The A’s promoted those guys because they want to win baseball games.
I think all the injury problems have just wrecked him, myself.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
His Sacramento numbers aren't very good.
Call up the whole team to compare and you’ll see he’s sort of middle of the pack, definitely not jumping out as the guy who needs a promotion.
"Starbucks doesn’t change its logo just because it no longer serves naked mermaids in Fremont." —Librocrat
excellent point you two, didn't think of that
it makes sense why others were higher up the chart. Now my question is, why do people think he can’t return to the player he was in 2007? Honest question. I guess 2 years is enough evidence to suggest he is that bad? I tried to look up his injury history but couldn’t find it on milb, fangraphs, or baseball reference. anyone know where to find injury history?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
AN a few months ago: wallace can play 3b for a few years
AN today: wallace is a DH/1B
did anything actually change besides him being traded?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Well, yeah, a lot of things:
Now Michael Taylor is a CFer, Wallace’s swing isn’t really that great when you get down to it, and Chris Carter is a better prospect than Wallace.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well the A's confirmed their thoughts on wallace today
IMO it was blind optimism hoping the hometown guy could solve their going on several yr 3b search. The reality is, maybe wallace wasnt their preferred prospect and knew it all along and were waiting for that opportunity to make that next deal.
You have a point,
but I think the consensus a few months ago was, “Wallace will be a very good hitter, and he can probably handle 3B at a Teahan-like level for 2 or 3 years, which is better than we’ve been getting.”
I don’t think the consensus was that he was going to be good at 3B, just that he could be adequate.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Not really
Just mass rationalization painting a prettier picture of Beane.
I’m still extremely curious to see how Wallace handles 3B. Does Toronto still use turf?
The monster at the end of this blog.
I thought their plan was to put him at 1b to replace overbay?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
they call him E5
which amuses me
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
www.goalsonfilm.com
You think beverages talk to you
I’m guessing pretty much anything amuses you.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Well, as I mention above, I spent most of my day writing about SEO
so yes, you’re right. At the moment, it takes very little
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
www.goalsonfilm.com
Here, look at the shiny rattle
(accomplice picks bobnothing’s pocket)
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 16, 2009 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
(meets up later with G_S at hideout)
“There’s nothing in this bad boy but coupons for lettuce and poorly-conceived knock-knock jokes.”
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 1:29 AM PST up reply actions
wait, where did the rattle go? Rattle!
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
If the A's got Overbay, would he instantly become Oakland's best DH?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes: We got insight into the A's player evaluations
Yesterday, we assumed, due to all available evidence, that the A’s believed that Wallace could play 3B for a few years. Today, we know that they don’t think that, because they have such a huge gaping hole at third that there’s no way they would have let go of Wallace unless they thought that he just wouldn’t play there. And’s it’s not like the A’s are so starved for OFers that we absolutely had to trade for Taylor.
That kind of differential can absolutely make a difference among those of us who don’t own scouting departments.
by Spass30 on Dec 15, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
This is incorrect
What we know is that the A’s prefer Taylor as a prospect over Wallace. Anything else is speculation.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 15, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
What I’m hoping is that it means Adrian Beltre is about to sign a 3 year, 27 million dollar contract with Oakland.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
It now makes more sense for the A's to pursue Beltre
I don’t think the A’s were blowing smoke when they said they intended to give Wallace every chance to prove himself at 3B. It made no sense to go after Beltre while Wallace was in the organization… now, it makes some sense.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Boston's going to get Beltre
I’ve already conceded this fact. Save all your blind hope for Chapman.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Not necessarily
Boston is going hard after Adrian Gonzalez. If they get him, they’ll have Youkilis play 3B every day, which means they wouldn’t have anywhere for Beltre to play.
"[Sabean] said Kevin Pucetas maintains some value on the trade market, which they take as a positive sign that he’d be a productive option."
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 16, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know about that, grover --
I think the A’s may have preferred “Wallace the serviceable 3Bman” but not “Wallace the not-going-to-cut-it-at-3B.” I think Spass30’s point is a fair one: The A’s wanted to give Wallace every chance to show he could make it at 3B, and they have concluded that it is not likely enough after all.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I didn't say his point wasn't fair, I said it was incorrect
Billy Beane (and a goodly portion of the FO) said that the A’s intended to give Wallace every chance during ST and into the 2010 season to show that he couldn’t play at 3B. So unless the A’s have been developing a flux capacitor… Wallace wasn’t out of chances to play 3B.
It is more than likely that Beane and Co. decided that Taylor’s talent + the uncertainty of where Wallace was going to end led them to making this deal. Cool. No problem.
But that doesn’t mean Wallace has failed as a 3B prospect.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 15, 2009 8:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, I agree with that
I would expect Toronto to pick up where the A’s left off, playing Wallace at 3B until he proves conclusively that he needs to play elsewhere.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Jordan Bastian, on his twitter, disagrees
well, to an extent, anyway.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
I just don't think so
I just look at a sentence like “We’re going to give him every chance to show he can play third” and that just looks like a GM who has very little hope of that event actually happening trying to maintain that player’s value in the eyes of other GMs. Otherwise, he would have said the same thing that every GM says in that circumstance, which is “we absolutely think he can play there.”
And in my mind
you’re calling Beane a liar when you say that. That or you’re suggesting that the other 29 GMs are incredibly stupid.
I rarely presume those two things.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Heh?
Lying? It’s common sense. If he’d said “I think he’s a first baseman,” then his ability to get equal talent in return for Wallace takes a nose dive, because everybody knows that he’d be stuck behind Carter.
And they would have kept playing him at third if the trade hadn’t happened, if for no other reason than there’s nowhere else in Sacramento or Oakland to play.
That’s lying?
Your presumptions are wrong
The majority opinion is that Wallace is destined for 1B and that Carter is a born DH. The A’s are obviously hoping that Carter can do more than DH but part of the reason they were so eager to find a team in winter ball that would play him in the OF is because he has problems around the bag at 1B.
So most teams wouldn’t think that a 1B bound Wallace would be stuck behind Carter, because they’d be pencilling in Carter at DH.
You’re also incorrect on how the Sac line-up was shaping up prior to this assumed swap.
And yes… when you accuse someone of saying one thing but meaning something else you are calling him a liar.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't quite agree with that last sentence
For example, there’s “damning with faint praise,” which is even one interpretation of what Beane was saying about Wallace’s chances for sticking at 3B.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And I don't agree with that interpretation
Based on what I’ve read from multiple sources (including the A’s FO) I’m guessing there’s probably no better than a 1 in 3 chance that Wallace can stick at 3B for even the next couple years. It is almost universally accepted that ultimately (and well before he’s 30) that Wallace will end up at 1B.
All Beane’s comments did for me was confirm that the A’s realize that Wallace at 3B was/is not a sure thing. That’s honesty.
The monster at the end of this blog.
"We're going to give him every chance"
is very different from “We think he can do it.” I’m not of the opinion that Beane was anything but honest about it; I am, however, of the opinion that you don’t have to read much between the lines to conclude that Beane was counting on Wallace at 3B about as much as he is counting on Chavez — “it’s our A’s first choice, but not something we expect to come through.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well
No other way to say it…
I can’t help what you’re reading between the lines. But Beane has made it clear that he has no expectations of Chavez in 2010 and that Eric has no future in Oakland. Ironically, in about 24 hours Wallace will most likely share that second trait with Chavez.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Oy
The other reason they wanted to put Carter in the OF in winter ball was because…drum roll please…they have a first baseman that they like and want to give ABs to. Kid named Daric Barton. I’m shocked, shocked you didn’t bring that up, because it’s also the other reason that portraying Wallace as a 1B only would have dropped his trade value. With Barton at 1B and Carter at DH…you’re right, the 29 other GMs aren’t stupid.
I’m not going to talk about this lying thing anymore because it’s inane. But why don’t you enlighten me as to how I’m wrong in my assumptions about the 2010 Sacramento lineup?
Because, noob
I’ve spent the past two years talking about the A’s minor league system, including Daric Barton, and I don’t feel like doing a remedial course tonight.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Yes of course
And I’m sure that whatever it was you said two years ago had everything to do with the 2010 3B/1B/DH quandary in Sacramento.
Reading comprehension
I said I spent the last two years talking about the A’s farm system… not that I talked about the farm system 2 years ago.
Very important semantical difference there.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Freshman!
(whips out homemade wooden paddle)
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 16, 2009 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
(whips out $29.99 Freshman-Whacking Paddle he got at Pier 1 Imports)
Your day breaks, your mind aches.
You find that all her words of kindness linger on
when she no longer needs you.
there are so many things wrong with that statement
whatever happened to an old-fashioned ass whoopin’?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 16, 2009 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
I use to work at Pier 1
you should have seen how fast we sold through them when they went clearance
Ooo! Piece of candy!
by ChickenStanley on Dec 16, 2009 12:51 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure,
but I think they have other uses beyond fraternal initiation.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 1:32 AM PST up reply actions
i think its a case of taylor becoming available
i agree with grover, i think the a’s had every intention of letting wallace play third. honestly, i think with some hard work (and all indications were that he was a hard worker), he could have been a serviceable third baseman. i think this trade is all about preferring taylor, period. they just couldn’t get him before. they acquired wallace because they wanted him. once they saw a chance to flip him for someone they wanted more, they went for it. seems totally logical to me.
by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
I agree that had the Phillies wanted to trade Taylor for Holliday
last July, I think Beane would have pulled the trigger on that instead.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
interesting that the Phillies were interested in Holliday
I guess they were trying to upgrade from Ibarra mid-season.
Of course, their biggest need was pitching.
Context is huge here
Their need for additional corner OF prospects was tiny. Tiny! Taylor is one of six – six! – legit OF prospects scheduled for AAA at the moment (Buck, Cunningham, Doolittle, Brown, Taylor, and counting Carter as a potential LF).
Their need for a third baseman is enormous. There’s nobody in the system who is up for the task currently, other than maybe Cardenas. Or I hear there’s this Donaldson guy…
If you think that Billy Beane looked at that surplus of OFers and complete lack of third baggers and gauged it only on talent, basically saying “Eh, Taylor’s a tick better than Wallace. He’s outta here,” I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Splitting hairs here
Okay, yes, Travis Buck is not eligible for Rookie of the Year in 2010. You got me.
Wow, that comment is almost 'toonian
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
why does everyone hate Buck now?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
please submit evidence
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 16, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
i can email you the photos but you can't show them to anyome, k?
by OakA'sHoney on Dec 16, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
sure
(hehehehehehehehe)
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Dec 16, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
can you back that up with numbers ;-)
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Because he now has two years of mediocre
numbers in Sacramento.
"Starbucks doesn’t change its logo just because it no longer serves naked mermaids in Fremont." —Librocrat
he will only be 26 years old in the 2010
without knowing his exact injury history, because i can’t find it, I’m hoping he will be healthy enough to get back to being good at baseball. Obviously I could be dead wrong and I have no proof, only time will tell.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I'd love to see him light up AAA and
earn his way back on to the team. I think we’d all like that.
But I don’t want to see him promoted just because we think he might be good again and he’s more popular than Matt Carson, Eric Patterson, Aaron Cunningham, etc.
"Starbucks doesn’t change its logo just because it no longer serves naked mermaids in Fremont." —Librocrat
Eh
If he genuinely thought Taylor is the better player— and that does by and large seem to be the consensus— then getting the BPA and worrying about sorting players into positions later makes at least a certain amount of strategic sense. Right now the A’s major league team has no truly elite position players, and really only one guy with the potential to become one (Kurt Suzuki, if his hitting trends upward).
It’s possible to build a winning team without any truly elite players (the 2006 A’s were one, for instance) but it’s an uphill battle.
O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?
wasn't Frank Thomas "elite" in 2006?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
OK... just to prove a point
Buck is not a prospect and he seems to have fallen out of favor within the organization. Doolittle hurt his knee and is probably one more Barton flop from moving back to 1B. Brown still has contact issues and can’t stay healthy for a full season. Cunningham hasn’t shown he’s more than a 4th OFer in the Show. Carter has spent the bulk of his pro career playing in the infield and could end up at DH.
I’m sorry, you were saying something about legit OF depth?
You’re right… Hell, I’ve been harping on the need to find a new 3B for too long to remember. And I happen to think that Wallace has a shot at sticking at 3B for a while, at least long enough for Oakland to figure out what (if anything) it has in Christian/Coleman/Green. However, there’s also a very good chance that Wallace won’t be able to hack it at the hot corner and while his bat might be great the opportunity to land an athlete that can hit (like Taylor) might be too appealing to say no.
It is obvious that the A’s prefer Taylor as a prospect over Wallace. Fine.
But we simply don’t have the information to draw any conclusions about Wallace’s defensive ability at 3B. He’s as legit a 3B prospect now as he was 72 hours ago.
The monster at the end of this blog.
This is ridiculously pedantic
Look me straight in the electronic eye and tell me we didn’t have legit OF prospect depth before this trade.
Fine, ignore Buck for arbitrary, nonrelative PA reasons. Barton’s ability to hold on at first has nothing to do with Doolittle’s promise or his ability to play in the outfield. Brown may have contact issues, but he might have more pure power potential than Taylor and he can play CF. Cunningham hasn’t had a fair shot in the big show and you know it. And you subtly sidestepped any issue of Carter’s ability in the OF because it’s unknown, not because it’s proven to be inadequate.
And Taylor has diabetes and power questions and he’s been slightly old for each level and Stanford players are AAAA fodder nine times out of ten.
Gee, wasn’t that fun.
OK
The A’s had lots of guys who played for the organization in the minors.
That’s not the same as they had/have 6 legitimate starting caliber OF prospects in the minors.
The monster at the end of this blog.
All righty then
If you’re not interested in being objective, I’m not interested in continuing the conversation. Night!
I used to write about the A's farm system here on AN
What do you bring to the table?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Chicken soup with lots of organic vegetables is what I bring to the table.
I will leave the minor league stuff to people like you.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
by Eastbayjim on Dec 15, 2009 10:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like good soup
The minor league system is not my exclusive domain, in fact I encourage everyone to spend as much time as they want reading about and following the A’s minor league teams. Better yet, everyone with even an fleeting interest in minor league prospects should go out and purchase John Sickels’ yearly Minor League Prospect book.
Costs about $30 and you can order it online by going to minorleagueball, a member of the SB Nation.
The monster at the end of this blog.
a different opinion than yours?
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
And he's entitled to that opinion
However, just ‘cause he gets to have an opinion doesn’t mean it’s tethered to anything resembling fact.
Hell, you could say the same thing about my opinions except I have shown through previous discussions an ability to show evidence to support my position.
Usually.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Plus you have that evil thing going for you
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
I was once tethered to a dead possum for three months.
I won that bet.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 6:06 AM PST up reply actions
he got to hang out with me for three months.
My castoffs are…quite humbly, “worth it.”
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
The real question is
What do you bring to the table that Goldstein, Sickels, Law, Lockhard, Hulet, Eisenberg and every other available source don’t?
Because I’m pretty sure that that group would agree pretty quickly that the A’s have good corner OF prospect depth. And then there’s you, o mighty unpaid blog writer, who seems to disagree. Geez, tough call there.
Kindly name all the guys who are potentially PLUS corner outfielders in the system for the class.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
"Plus" meaning what?
3 WAR? 4 WAR?
Yes, kitten, Doolittle, Cunningham, Brown, Carter if they stick him out there, Desme, even Dixon have that potential. Varying degrees of it, of course, but each of their upsides is within that range.
Now, is Taylor a better prospect than them all? Yeah. He is. That wasn’t the issue. Never was.
So all 6 guys you listed are going to be at least as good as Curtis Granderson?
Okay.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Did I say that?
Read it again, this time slowly. What words might you have missed?
You said they all have 3 WAR/4WAR potential.
Granderson has been worth 3.7 and 3.4 WAR the past two seasons.
Keep up, kitten.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Might want to blow the dust off that Oxford English sitting on your shelf
And look up the meaning of “potential.”
What's potential, precious?
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
(I'm fairly certain Sam did not call Gollum "kitten")
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
I see
So to you, “potential” means the same thing as “is going to be at least as good as”? Good to know for future reference.
you really need to ease up on the snark throttle.
You’re gonna choke it out.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Dec 16, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
He's also not very good at it.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I see three people in this conversation
who aren’t very good at it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I see a pyramid scheme of snark
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."