Zonis's Off Season Charter
by Zonis on Nov 8, 2009 7:00 PM PST
158 comments
We have seen several of our members throw out their plans for the off season, and now that we are into it, with several moves already made, I thought I would throw my hat into the ring.
The key to entering an off season is simple. You have to ask yourself and answer two key questions: What do I Have and What do I need?
This is also aided by the same parallel questions of your opponents. These questions will allow you to judge how strong you are and how strong you need to be.
What do the A's have?
The first thing we need to do is judge what the A's actually have going into the 2010 season, where the weaknesses are, were the holes in the team are, and what can be upgraded.
As it stands, the team currently looks like this.
C1: Kurt Suzuki
1B:
2B: Mark Ellis
3B:
SS: Cliff Pennington
LF:
RF:
CF: Rajai Davis
DH:
C2: Landon Powell
BN:
BN:
BN:
SP: Brett Anderson
SP: Dallas Braden
SP:
SP:
SP:
RP: Andrew Baily
RP: Joey Devine
RP: Brad Ziegler
RP: Mike Wuertz
RP: Craig Breslow
RP: Jeff Gray
RP:
That is a lot of holes to fill. Obviously, there are quite a few players that have been left out for one reason or another.
The most obvious holes that I have left all have a striking key feature, something we have been complaining about for quite some time. They are all the positions which you expect to get the bulk of your offense from. It is this reason why you might wonder if Ryan Sweeney really is meant to make the club as a starting outfielder, considering his lack of offensive prowess as a Corner Outfielder. As a Backup or Platoon Center fielder, Sweeney would be great, but this team is dying for offense, so lets try to leave ourselves open to plus offensive opportunities for now.
Arguably, one could write Eric Chavez into the Third Base slot. But as we've seen, that would be good for maybe the first week of Spring Training, and it is not worth relying on Chavez for anything, and treating him as an added bonus if he is around.
Scott Hairston performed terribly in his stint with the A's, so I am also hesitant on what to do with him.
Travis Buck and Aaron Cunningham both probably deserve chances, and should be a better offensive bet than Sweeney, though both have performed poorly in brief stints in the majors the last couple years.
Jack Cust had his down year last year, and is in for a big raise, which makes him a non-tender target with the annual flux of DH candidates around.
Daric Barton is somewhat of a wild card, flipping his minor league projection from a bad defensive, good offensive 1B to a good defensive, bad offensive 1B. I will have him on the team, but it depends on if the A's acquire a stop gap 1B. Either way, it looks like Barton will be replaces by either Wallace or Carter or Doolittle (Oh My!)
For Starting Pitching, aside from the two who are already slotted, the A's have a lot of choices of players who could be good, but are wild cards. Trevor Cahill, Vin Mazzaro, and Gio Gonzalez will likely get the nod if another veteran pitcher is not acquired, so we can probably pencil them in. Josh Outman is still recovering from TJ Surgery, and wont be available for a long time, so for now lets write him off. If another SP candidate brings himself up, a Spring Training competition will likely be the deciding factor.
In the Bullpen, the last slot is, for the most part, a spot to win in Spring Training. That slot could go to Jerry Blevins, the Usual Fodder that is the A's Longman Slot, or could go to Henry Rodriguez, who is out of options.
We look down to the Minors, and we have a crop of strong offensive prospects, of which might be ready for the Majors, but probably are not.
Brett Wallace is still being tried out at 3B, but won't likely be ready in time. The team could still give him a shot if he impresses during ST, but more likely he will be called up Mid season.
Adrian Cardenas tore up AA, but struggled in his first stint at AAA, and did decent in is second trip. I suspect he will once again return to AAA, where he will tear it up. But lets leave him there for now.
Chris Carter destroyed AA, and did well in Triple A, but will likely return there as well.
Sean Doolittle was doing well in AAA before getting injured and being out for the season. Unfortunate, because he could likely have made the team if not for the injury.
So lets update the chart with players we already have.
C1: Kurt Suzuki
1B: Daric Barton
2B: Mark Ellis
3B:
SS: Cliff Pennington
LF: Aaron Cunningham
RF: Ryan Sweeney
CF: Rajai Davis
DH:
C2: Landon Powell
BN: Travis Buck
BN: Scott Hairston
BN: Gregorio Petit
SP: Brett Anderson
SP: Dallas Braden
SP: Trevor Cahill
SP: Vince Mazzaro
SP: Gio Gonzalez
RP: Andrew Baily
RP: Joey Devine
RP: Brad Ziegler
RP: Mike Wuertz
RP: Craig Breslow
RP: Jeff Gray
RP: Jerry Blevins
So we are off to the Free Agent and Trade Market with holes at 3B and DH, and hoping for an upgrade in the outfield. Lets see what are available.
3rd Base:
Troy Glaus
Adrian Beltre
Pedro Feliz
Dan Uggla
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Matt Gamel
Brandon Wood
The first three are Free Agents, the last four are Trade Targets. Gamel would not likely work, as he has been kindly described as a butcher at 3B. Still, be might be an interesting target to acquire as a DH, assuming he can recover back to form. Brandon Wood, the perennial prospect, has been mistreated by the Anges for quite some time now. I would like to try to grab him and give him a shot myself. The Padres no longer need the services of the Kouz, but are likely to ask a lot in return for him. As for Feliz, we have already had him before, and his name was Jack Hannahan. So that leaves Adrian Beltre and Troy Glass. Beltre would be good to have, but will likely ask for a multi year, expensive deal, and with other teams vying for 3B and the A's looking at Brett Wallace as a Third Baseman, it would not be that great an idea to grab him and block Wallace (At least Wood could be shifted back to SS, and would still be cheap). Personally, I would try to grab Troy Glaus on a 1 year, get your act together and stay healthy contract and see if he can still man 3B. If he can not, shift him to Designated Hitter. Likewise, I would still try to acquire, even if it is from a division rival, Brandon Wood, and try him at 3B and Shortstop.
So my final roster, assuming that Chavez re-injures himself during ST as per annual custom, would look like so.
C1: Kurt Suzuki
1B: Daric Barton
2B: Mark Ellis
3B: Brandon Wood
SS: Cliff Pennington
LF: Aaron Cunningham
RF: Ryan Sweeney
CF: Rajai Davis
DH: Troy Glaus
C2: Landon Powell
BN: Travis Buck
BN: Scott Hairston
BN: Gregorio Petit
SP: Brett Anderson
SP: Dallas Braden
SP: Trevor Cahill
SP: Vince Mazzaro
SP: Gio Gonzalez
RP: Andrew Baily
RP: Joey Devine
RP: Brad Ziegler
RP: Mike Wuertz
RP: Craig Breslow
RP: Jeff Gray
RP: Jerry Blevins
That would leave room, if Wood, Glaus and/or Barton fail during the first half, to replace them with a Wallace, Carter and/or Cardenas. For the outfield, if they are performing well, Corey Brown and Sean Doolittle might get call ups if the current outfield can not handle itself.
This is a low cost roster, as you can tell. With the A's recent financial struggles, both attendance and media wise, not much money was brought in, and a lot was left to leave. Do I think this team can compete with the Angels? No, that's for 2011. But I think it can finish above .500.
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Excuse me kind sir
But Henry Rodriguez is not out of options, he was only added to the 40 man roster last winter and has 2 option years remaining.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 8, 2009 7:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
His contract was purchased 11/20/07 according to Cot's, and he was signed in 2003
That would indicate that he has one option year remaining.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my mistake
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Nov 9, 2009 12:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a question
How do you plan on acquiring Brandon Wood without including anyone off the 40 man roster or Wallace, Carter, Cardenas, Doolittle or Brown? Don’t tell me Ynoa is about to become an Angel!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 8, 2009 7:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That would be an interesting trade, no?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
by Syphon on Nov 8, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does this mean you would be for it or against it as an A's fan?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 9, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, if you're the A's
It would be a ridiculously dumb trade if you’re the Angels…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 8:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet I could find someone who thinks the opposite.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 9, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure you could
Hell, Mike Scoscia probably thinks the opposite.
That said, I don’t think there’s any prospect in all of baseball— none, zero, zilch— with the upside of Brandon Wood. And he’s significantly more likely than Ynoa to make a significant contribution at the major league level, too. No certainty, of course— hey, there’s probably a 30% chance that he does nothing at all in the majors ever. But compared to Ynoa, the guy’s safe as houses.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In facebook terms
I just “liked” this.
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 9, 2009 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I assume you mean houses outside of Nevada, Arizona or Florida
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 2:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that Wood would be all that cheap to get. He was discussed as the second
piece in a Halladay deal. Or the Angels will probably want him to be their 3B after Izturis leaves as a FA next fall. Maybe the Angels haven’t mistreated him so much as they’ve been seasoning him. It’s not at all clear that he would have topped Izturis’s production the last couple of years, let alone Figgins.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 7:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think the Angels will hold onto to Wood
With Figgins a FA and Sean Rodriguez in Tampa Bay now, that would decimate their INF depth.
by PL78 on Nov 8, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm basically OK with giving Wallace a shot at 3B, or else leaving it to Cardenas if that fails.
I’d rather see a plus defender at SS (Aviles?), and a comeback project at starting pitcher, like Duke or Penny or someone like that…even a innings eater like Garland or Pavano.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 7:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Id love to see Cunningham everyday in the OF next year.
But something tells me he wont. Hairston and Buck prob take much of his time.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
by Syphon on Nov 8, 2009 8:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I cannot figure out why you have the A's nontendering Jack Cust and then signing Troy Glaus
He’s not a better hitter, he’s significantly less healthy, and he’s going to cost more.
Huh?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 8:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Fans of other teams in need of a DH
are probably putting Cust on their lists as an excellent buy-low candidate, with a parenthetic hope that Oakland non-tenders him.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 8, 2009 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cust is going to be around $5M. I'm not sure that Glaus is getting much more than that.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 9, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, the anti-Cust people need to get their shit straight.
Either A) ZOMG CUST SUCKS NONTENDER HIM STRICKOUTS or, B) Cust is going to be EXPENSIVE and HE SUCKS NONTENDER HIM
1
A is false. Cust doesn’t suck. However, if A is true, and Cust sucks, then there’s no way he’ll make a huge raise via arbitration.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
BTW, I see two potential stopgap options have just hit the market
Both Pedro Feliz and Alex Gonzalez have had contract options declined.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 8:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd be OK with a season of Happy Peter
His penchant for swinging at low, outside sliders in Crosby-esque, but his defense is excellent, and he does have some power. Plus, if he were to drive in the winning run in a game or two against the Gnats, all the better.
Hey Al, just go away, baby.
by doctorK on Nov 8, 2009 8:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's fair to expect much power from Feliz this year
Feliz’s SLGs as a major leaguer, by year since 2003:
.515
.485
.422
.428
.418
.422
.402
.386
Those last 2 were in the Citizen’s Bank bandbox.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Nov 9, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz is sinking in quicksand...
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 9, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I just saw another blog that mentioned that Feliz' back is giving him trouble
Change my Happy Peter vote to DO.NOT.WANT.
Hey Al, just go away, baby.
by doctorK on Nov 9, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did it ever occur to you that
“do not want” is exactly why the Happy Peter is trending downward?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tim over at mlbTR
Sees Oakland signing Miggy and Thome.
Barton
Ellis
Pennington
Tejada
Suzuki
Cust
Davis
Sweeney
Thome
Hairston-Patterson-Powell-Chavez
Kind of interesting, but kind also kind of meh. I assume that if he has us signing Thome then we would nontender Cust, but I added them both in there to make it interesting. Dierkes also doesnt list Justin Duchscherer, Troy Glaus, Alex Gonzalez, Randy Johnson, Brett Myers, Vicente Padilla, Chan Ho Park, J.J. Putz, Takashi Saito or Jack Wilson. He was 13/50 in accuracy last year, which isnt good but as good as any.
by PL78 on Nov 8, 2009 9:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm warming to the idea of signing Miggy
He’s your starting 3B (therefore not relying on Chavez and giving Wallace extra time in AAA) and can fill in at SS if Pennington gets hurt, sucks or needs an off day. I’d say a 1 year plus option could get it done. What kind of salary would he require?
by faninphilly on Nov 8, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Miggy is a better utility option than Kennedy
He gives you awesome spirit/leadership, and he can play SS. If the price is right, I’d certainly take him over Kennedy for a “5th INF.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 9, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I could see that happening.
I’m not in favor of a Miggy signing, but I do like getting a 3B who could cover SS.
Also, you forgot Figgins on your list of “available” 3Bs.
He’d be my first choice, but admittedly that choice has a lot to do with the amusement value he’d provide on game threads.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 8, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, someone's gotta supply the entertainment
by bobnothing on Nov 9, 2009 8:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There will be cheaper whores than Figgins...
He does have nice tits, though…
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 9, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is price really a determining factor in that situation?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 9, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that a trick question?
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 9, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking more along the lines of
taunting the cheap whore by yelling “CHOOOOOOOONNNNE!” at him.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He also listed Uggla but then ignored him in the analysis...?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 9, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Buck is done
He can’t even hit at AAA and he is old. So is Patterson, but he’s looked better and can backup 2B and can pinch run so he makes the roster before Buck does.
Alex Gonzalez kind of sucks but he might come cheap and he can play 3B til Wallace is ready and then move to utility which is nice since he can backup SS which most of the FAs available on the cheap can’t. He’s like Hannahan but he can play short.
I’d like a 3B/SS that’s more exciting but I can’t find one. Miggy will probably cost to much I doubt bet he barely OPS’s .700 in the AL now. J. Hairston is pretty terrible on defense but he plays the right positions and hits lefties well. Wood would be nice but I don’t see the Angels letting us have him… would hurt too much if he put it together on a team in their division.
If Scutaro slips through the cracks that could work, but he and Kennedy will probably get multiyear offers so I am not holding out hope.
The more I look at it, the more I think a trade is coming. Roster just doesn’t feel right at the moment and the FA options can’t fix it.
by DrDoom on Nov 8, 2009 11:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Sea Bass at SS than 3B. He's a better defender than Pennington.
Unless you meant the other Alex Gonzalez, in which case I see no use for him at all.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 9, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Buck is done, huh?
Insanity.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
by hero66 on Nov 14, 2009 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't sound insane to me.
Maybe slightly aggressive to pronounce it with such certainty, but Buck doesn’t look very promising to me, either. I think it’s the crowd that has high hopes for Buck that is less in touch with reality.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 15, 2009 12:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Once he cut his hair, he went from a one-tool player to a zero-tool player
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2009 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beane is going to make a trade
Winter meetings Beane will make a trade and it will probably be from the relief core. My best guess is Ziggy will be traded along with maybe Hairston. No Holiday trade this year but a minor trade.
by Arcman on Nov 9, 2009 7:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
interesting prediction...
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 9, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Arcman didn't exactly go out on a limb there.
Now if he predicted Cahill, Rodriguez and Ynoa for Jose Reyes or something…..that would be interesting.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 9, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no, but I would hate to see Ziegler go...
I’d rather lose Wuertz.
Ziegler is warm and fuzzy, while Wuertz is merely a good pitcher.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 9, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you'd trade PT but hang onto grover?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 9, 2009 6:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PT spells well
and has a sumptuous vocabulary. I’d hate to give that up.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would keep PT
because he’s young and under club control at least until he gets out of law school.
However, I would package Arcman, Trainman, and SecretA’sianman, along with one of our prospects (Twan54321?) to Royals Review for “Royals Review” himself.
Mr. McDonald would have to change his name to “Athletics Review,” but he would be the piece we need in our lineup to put this blog over the top.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 9, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We forfeited control of secret asiAN man
when he went to the college blog. He’s property of California Golden Blogs now.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well what are we going to do now?
We can’t trade you, ‘cause you’ve got refined sensibilities,
and not only does grover have an NTC, but any other blog we traded him to would make him capitalize his name, and that would cause big problems.
You know what… maybe we can sneak Monkeyball by them. They’re the Royals, so they’ll probably think he’s a stud due to the high number of comments… Little do they know that it’s all TWSS!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 10, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Nick Swisher and Jason Giambi can
learn to shave for the Yankees, grover can learn to capitalize his name for Lookout Landing.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 10, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can capitalize names.
Iglew.
You’re just jealous ’cause Nico shopped you to the rest of SB Nation and the best offer he got us a scratched hard copy of Windows 98.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 10, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My dad blames Blez.
It’s a joke that Brad Pitt is going to play Blez in a movie the way he mistreats posters. No way I’m going to re-sign with AN once my contract is up.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 10, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You could always ask to be released early
The FO might like to rid themselves of the dead weight.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 10, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just made a clerical error
I accidentally Iglewed DFA.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 10, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well that pretty much kills the joke
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 11, 2009 7:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But I've got a NTC in my contract
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 10, 2009 8:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jose reyes?
Now that would be me just making up stuff. I just have not heard anything about Beane talking to a team about trade and if you look at the team RP is the most likely to get traded. I would not be surprised if Buck is traded this off season. But Jose?? Mets not trading him. But what about David Wright…hmmmm.
by Arcman on Nov 9, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nov 11, 2008
Holliday trade…maybe not a big but A’s will be in discussions for some trades/FA’s at gm meetings this week, They have a gold mine of pitching depth that teams might show interest in. Plus it isnt terrible to do some roster clean at positions of depth
by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 9, 2009 8:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera reunion?
As far as backup/utility type infielders, I can see Beane look to re-sign O-Cab for something like $3 million or so to provide a bit of a buffer for Pennington and to also back-up 2nd. Even though he seemed pretty awful at short this past year, I find it hard to believe that he’s really gone from one of the best fielding shortstops in baseball to one of the worst in the matter of one season.
Plus, it seemed like O-Cab was great in the clubhouse and enjoyed playing in Oakland and living in the Bay Area.
With O-Cab in the fold, maybe that would allow the team to pursue more of a corner infield type (like Glaus) to man 3rd for at least the beginning of the season.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Nov 9, 2009 9:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why not let Gregorio Petit be the primary backup instead?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because his only real use is as a pretty good, but not great defensive SS,
which means he would almost never be useful as an in-game substitute. He could easily be stashed at AAA in case of injury.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 9, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How is that different than Cabrera?
Aside from costing like 3M more?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gregorio Pettit has never told the Chronicle, "I suck."
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Nov 9, 2009 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Have they ever asked?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 8:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does zigfan's friend work for the Chron?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Nov 10, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not. He's a better alternative than Cabrera. But not as good as someone
who can hit a little, like Cardenas for example.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 2:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In this free agent market, I'm pretty sure Cabrera's played his way back into a starter's job...
Without the Type A millstone around his neck, he should be able to command at least 6-7 million this season.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From whom? Toronto? Pittsburgh?
Unless he mends fences in Boston, I don’t see a whole lotta places where he’d be an upgrade.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 9, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
... well for starters, Minnesota...
They needed three new infielders entering this offseason. They got one— great, but not enough if they’re interested in competing next season.
San Francisco could surely use him to replace Renteria, though perhaps that would never happen since it would be an admission by Sabean that he blew it last offseason. Cincinnati, Chicago (N), Detroit… I mean, unless these guys have MLB-ready shortstop prospects that I’m not aware of (which is possible), they sure look like attractive destinations to me.
Odds are his UZR will even out— it’s extraordinarily unlikely that he just declined 30 runs in one season. More likely, the high was too high, the low was too low, and the truth is that he’s in the -5<x<5 range. His offense is mediocre at best, but that’s still good enough to put him in the 1.5 WAR range or so. There are a LOT of teams out there who can’t count on getting that out of their shortstops. (Including, of course, Oakland. But as I said, I think he’ll get a starting gig.)
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In a post-Hardy world
I don’t see Minnesota looking for a SS. Why shift Hardy somewhere else when he’s most valuable at SS? I can’t really see OrCa being moved to 2nd or 3rd (I doubt he would want this) and his bat doesn’t play well there, so how do you see the Twins being in the running?
by el generico on Nov 9, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He'd be fine at second
He’d almost certainly be a plus defender there. I see no particular reason to believe that he would be any less valuable as a 2B than as a SS.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That was my thought at the time of the trade --
that O-Cab would be best served signing as a 2Bman in 2010.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 9, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Twins maybe could use him at 2B, but I don't see them paying him $6M/yr
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 2:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What's all the "Cabrerra is a bad clubhouse guy"
I certainly didn;t see it, Gardenhire ssaid the opposite.is it that Ozzy Guillen doesn’t like him? Why was he bad in Boston, he was there 3 months.
by Future Ed on Nov 9, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow Melvin Mora just qualified as a type A
which means he will be jobless until June, or have to take a SEVERE paycut.
O-Cab did too, he’s ABSOLUTELY not worth giving up a 1st round pick for.
Other players people can quit talking about the A’s signing because they qualified as type A and arent worth giving up the 1st round pick:
Orlando Cabrera, IF, Minnesota
Jermaine Dye, OF, White Sox*
Orlando Hudson, IF, Dodgers
Melvin Mora, IF, Baltimore
Placido Polanco, IF, Detroit
Marco Scutaro, IF, Toronto
Miguel Tejada, IF, Houston
by PL78 on Nov 9, 2009 12:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jesus man, don't you get tired of being wrong?
Cabrera has a clause in his contract that his team cannot offer him arbitration if he qualifies as a Type A free agent. He won’t cost anybody anything.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
oh yeah forgot about that
but as usual you have to be a dick about it ;)
by PL78 on Nov 9, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stop acting like you know everything and everybody else is wrong.
You may get better reactions that way.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
But in this case, you really were a dick.
That subject line was unnecessary.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh well. I'm not losing any sleep over it.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
me neither
I was indeed wrong about o-cab in this case. In other cases I think Pennington deserves 3 months of regular SS time in 2010, some people disagree with that, but I dont agree with their methodology in determining their opinion. We are all A’s fans and these are like, splitting hairs here. Its the offseason and there’s nothing else to do, I guess I could you know, do my work, but this is ALWAYS (heh) more fun.
by PL78 on Nov 9, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus...
all these Type-A’s need to be offered arbitration by their current clubs in order for draft-pick compensation to be part of the equation. I could see Scutaro and O-Hud being offered Arbitration, but the other won’t likely be offered, so they should be free for the taking…
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Nov 9, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm
I’d say Polanco is also very likely to be offered, since the Tigers have little in the pipeline to replace him with and he was paid a pittance ($4.6M) this season. More’s the pity, since he’d be a decent sign (basically a much, much better version of Adam Kennedy).
Dye and Mora certainly won’t be, Cabrera can’t be, and Tejada is very unlikely to be because apparently the Astros are moving on.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Could Polanco play third?
He hasn’t regularly since 2002, but when he did he was good (+7) defensively should be around league average with the bat. Should be a fairly cheap 2-3 WAR player.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 9, 2009 9:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No idea if he's open to it
I’ve coveted him for years. He’s got one genuinely unique skill— hitting well with two strikes— which the A’s haven’t really had in abundance since Scott Hatteberg left. Apart from that, he’s well rounded and lacks any major weaknesses.
That free agent contract he signed with Detroit was one of the biggest bargains in recent memory. He was paid for about 4 WAR and produced 12.7. That’s like $30M worth of surplus value from a FREE AGENT.
I know Beane likes him too (I can’t remember where I learned that, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it) so signing him seems like a real possibility. He could potentially play 3B this year and shift to 2B in 2011 if the A’s got him on a 2-year deal.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 10:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
Polanco was very nearly traded to the A’s for Ricardo Rincon, but Schott nixed the deal since the A’s would have taken on about a million dollars in salary.
I like Polanco a lot too. Especially if he can play 3rd reasonably.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 9, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a facepalm-inducing moment
The whole Schott era could be summed up in 4 words: “penny wise, pound foolish.”
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 11:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, really?
Is this confirmed anywhere? I tried googling but couldn’t turn up anything.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was a Rosenthal column
Here’s what Gammons said at the time:
Oakland couldn’t make its Ricardo Rincon-Placido Polanco trade with the Phillies because Jim Mecir and Justin Duchscherer both got hurt Thursday and Billy Beane couldn’t allow his bullpen to be short for the Texas series.
by Danny on Nov 10, 2009 8:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Now I'M depressed
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Nov 10, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But we can routinely allow players
who are injured to sit on the bench for a week before going on the DL?
I’m inclined to think this is utter BS. No way would Billy Beane pass up a trade of Rincon for Polanco just because it would leave the bullpen short for a few days. You just call up a reliever from AAA.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 10, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that explanation is pretty facile.
I don’t doubt that Billy said that to Gammons. But i doubt that it’s the truth.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 10, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And if your bullpen is short
just bring up Andrew Brown.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Nov 11, 2009 6:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or acquire Mark Hendrickson and Jon Rauch
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 12, 2009 7:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tigers are going to play Sizemore at 2nd next year
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
by hero66 on Nov 14, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The more I look at these plans for the 2010 A’s, the more discouraged I become. Lineups that include the guys that are on the current 40-man roster just aren’t that appealing. I think we are all guilty of overrating these players. Granted, many of these players are young and haven’t been given consistent playing time, but what do we really expect to get from Cunningham, Buck, Petit, Barton, Pennington, Sweeney and Patterson. I’m not confident that any of these guys will be anything more that what we have already seen. The pitching is taking form quite nicely and until the new batch of offensive players (Carter, Wallace, Cardenas, Doolittle, etc..) are ready, 2010 looks pretty bleak. Unless, Beane shakes things up a bit and brings in multiple offensive forces. The plan should be to trade for established/high-upside players, the A’s can use their stocked farm system to acquire these pieces. Forget the aging vets like Tejada, disregard trading for more system depth. The Holliday trade last year could be the basis for a new model, but a new paradigm should include one more additional piece. I think Holliday felt like he had to be the savior and he did not live up to expectations. Give him a Robin to his Batman and there might have been a different result. I realize this is not easy because of many factors, but if we’re coming up with plans for 2010, dream big!
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Nov 9, 2009 12:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What about Adrian Gonzalez?
I’m sure they could get him for Wallace, Mazzaro and Barton or something like that. Maybe even try and sign him to a big extension. The upgrade at 1B from the production last season to Gonzalez would be pretty massive.
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
by niallmack on Nov 9, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, let's dream about trading more future All-Star talents for short-term rentals
That sounds like an excellent concept. Let’s make sure the 2013 A’s suck complete ass while barely improving next year’s team, which probably won’t compete anyway!
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus We Have
Carter in the minors and he should be ready by mid season if not before. I am not entirely against trading a Mazzaro or Cahill type player a long with a couple mid tier prospects for a young power hitter that we can sign to an extension. But honestly how many of them are out there? Plus your looking at the wrong position.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Nov 9, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious what people think about trading Cahill.
Especially those who have strongly made the case that Cahill was awful in 2009 and he only looked decent because he got lucky.
Is it only on AN where Cahill is overvalued, or is he possibly overvalued by other teams as well? If so, do you consider selling high on him now? Or do you still prefer to keep him in AAA and hope to bring him back later?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not exactly selling high when he was one of the worst starters in baseball last year is it?
I mean, yeah I’d trade him for Longoria.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
who's ready to replace him?
Though one could argue he’s no ready either. They probably will evaluate cahill and other for a bit longer
by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 9, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I will completely lose faith if they trade him
Well.. Maybe not completely but I’d be pretty upset
by Twan54321 on Nov 9, 2009 11:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
While I frequently differ with PT on questions of past vs future,
in this case I am in 100% agreement: To trade our good prospects for “established/high-upside players” this season would be a very bad idea.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I based my post on ...
being competitive in 2010, not the future of the franchise. It’s obvious that BB shouldn’t mortgage the future for 2010. My point is that the offensive options the A’s have for 2010 are just plain shitty.
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Nov 9, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. I'm the guy who believes in
trying to be competitive year after year, as opposed to the boom-and-bust cycle many others prefer.
Even so, I still think trading good prospects this year is a bad idea. I’d like to see the A’s sign one or two pretty good FAs (presumably 3B and/or SP), plus do a little bit of minor tweaking here and there. OK to give away a few non-top-20 prospects, and maybe a decent MLB-ready reliever or two, but don’t give away the core prospects to try to get a premium non-FA.
Now you’re saying you don’t want to give away any future, but you think our offense was shitty. Well, hey, no one disagrees with that. But what are you going to do about it? You were talking about a Holliday type trade and possibly two. You’re not going to get that without giving away several pieces from the Carter-Wallace-Cardenas bin.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, you want established high upside players, without mortgaging the future
This is like those California ballot initiatives where people demand more services while insisting on paying fewer taxes.
I’m sorry to have to break it to you but you are not going to land Prince Fielder with Travis Buck, Anthony Capra and Clay Mortensen.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
whats sad
is that Buck/Capra/Mortensen is a MUCH better deal than anything a team like the Mets would offer, and they will continue to oversell their mediocre farm system as being much better than it really is.
I’d like to one day take a look at prospect failures/successes team-by-team and see who has had the most lauded prospects not fit their billing and who has quietly produced quality big leaguers from nowhere. Im betting the Mets and the Angels have the biggest hype/fail rate. The Mets have literally produced two actual everyday players over the last 5 years, Reyes & Wright. You can add Mike Pelfrey, Dan Murphy and Lastings Milledge, but all in all, thats just terrible.
by PL78 on Nov 9, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
First of all,
Buck-Capra-Mortensen is a crappy package. How much worse could the Mets’ package be?
Second, I think you’re really overstating it when you play up the failure of the Mets’ farm system. “The last five years” isn’t as many years as it sounds since guys from the last three years wouldn’t have arrived yet. Two guys isn’t great, but it’s not as horrible as you imply. And anyway, you go on to list five guys, not just the two. And you didn’t mention F-Mart, who, although he looked crummy in his call-up this year, only just turned 21 and could still break out.
I think the main reason the Mets have a high “hype/fail rate” is that they keep trading away all their good young guys so you forget they were Mets. Brian Bannister, for example, is a product of the Mets system, but you didn’t list him with your everyday players. Ditto for Yusmeiro Petit. More recently, that whole bundle of guys they sent to the Twins for Santana.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 10:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i dont think Bannister or Petit are any good though, nor are they everyday position players
thats my point (I shouldnt have included pelfrey, my bad).
if the Mets prospects turned out as what they were sold as, there would be a lot of them around. there arent.
by PL78 on Nov 11, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't realize you were limiting it to
position players only. If this is your standard for what counts as success from a team’s farm system, then I think your standard is very high and most other teams wouldn’t do much better.
Perhaps your real complaint is not about Mets ineptitude but simply New York media hype.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 11, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You could land JJ Hardy for Carlos Gomez, though
Man, if Hardy returns to form that is going to be a grade-A steal for Minny.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 9, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sure
but how probable is that? hasn’t he been pretty bad for two seasons now? plus, he’s moving from JV to varsity in terms of leagues, which will almost certainly hurt his numbers.
by guy incognito on Nov 9, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy was good in 2008
He was awful awful awful last year, though.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
.323 career OBP in the NL
starting to look scary. His offensive value is pretty dependent upon the power.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Nov 13, 2009 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you were the one
Who goes by all the percentages? Now you are calling these three future all-stars? What do you think the realistic chances are that Mazzaro or Wallace come close to being anywhere near as good as Gonzalez?
Adrian Gonzalez is due 10 million over the next few years. Giving him an immediate raise and extending him one or two extra could be a good idea from both sides. He’s already one of the top power hitters in the MLB and an excellent fielder at 1B. Having a superstar type talent goes a loooong way towards making a decent team. Much more than having 2 or 3 prospects with question marks at every position. He hits in a pitcher’s park, has been healthy and is 28 years old. Sounds to me like you don’t like good ballplayers.
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
by niallmack on Nov 9, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My reply wasn't to your comment
If I had been, I’d have said that that trade was (is) simply not going to get the job done.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh ok
I guess it depends on their other offers. That would be a good start to a package that would probably need to be something similar to what Haren got.
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
by niallmack on Nov 9, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes-- the thing is, it makes utterly no sense for the A's to give up such a package right now
What good would it do? Hell, I’m pretty sure Arizona’s regretting that trade right now, and they were seemingly in a better position than the present-day A’s to make a rental trade in late 2007.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the whole point in getting Wallace
is so that the future of 3B wouldn’t be the gaping back injury it is now. So, I can’t see Wallace going anywhere. Mazzaro? Yeah, I can see that, but he’s pretty legit — he’s just so young right now it’s hard to say whether he’ll be Todd Van Poppel or Brad Radke.
But to get a 1B man now, even if it is Gonzalez? We’re still going to suck next year, why not just wait and see where the chips fall after 2010? That will give us a better idea of where we stand based on record, player development, payroll, etc. Plus, we won’t have the Chavez boondoggle around our necks and perhaps have more payroll flexibility to truly sign someone long-term.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 9, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gonzalez + filler at 3B
Would be a lot better than Barton + Wallace next year and going forward.
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
by niallmack on Nov 9, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not after 2011, when he signs a huge free agent contract with the Red Sox
and the A’s just have filler + filler instead.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
MLB Trade Rumors
has the A’s signing Jim Thome, Miguel Tejada and Carl Pavano. I am not sure if any of these signing actually makes any sense. I wonder if Thome would even be an upgrade over Cust. Or if it would be another disasterous veteran signing though not costing much. Tell me if this team would actually contend in 2010?
1B- Daric Barton
2B- Mark Ellis
SS- Cliff Pennington
3B- Miguel Tejada
C- Kurt Sazuki
LF- Rajai Davis
CF- Ryan Sweeney
RF- Scott Hairston
DH- Jim Thome
SP- Dallas Braden
SP- Brett Anderson
SP- Carl Pavano
SP- Vin Mazzaro/ Trevor Cahill/ Gio Gonzalez
RP- Andrew Bailey
RP- Joey Devine
RP- Brad Zeigler
RP- Michael Wuertz
RP- Craig Breslow
RP- Brad Kilby/ Jeff Grey/ Johnathon Meleon/ Sam Demel/
1B/C/DH- Landon Powell
INF- Adam Kenendy
INF- Eric Chavez (?)
OF- Travis Buck
OF- Aaron Cunningham
I am not too sure this team can’t win 80-85 games, but how many wins do Tejada, Thome and Pavano actually bring?
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
by nocal81 on Nov 9, 2009 1:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Pavano's actually a pretty decent pitcher as long as you keep him on a short leash
I think he’s just lazy. But he did have an FIP of 4.00 this season.
I don’t think Thome adds anything over Cust, though. Tejada adds something over Adam Kennedy, but how much is unclear.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably a couple years of age?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if the a's sign tejada, do they get the new age or old age tejada
i know when i returned to california an re-applied for my license, the dmv printed my weight as a 16 year old, no what i had written on the reapplication form. maybe the principle is the same with ages.
by Future Ed on Nov 9, 2009 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not laziness, it's the Alyssa Milano effect.
It never goes away.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I had that
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 2:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen, brother.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 10, 2009 3:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know im in the minority
But I think we have an 80-85 win team even if we make zero moves. Adding these veterans isnt really going to add much, like is Thome really going to win us more games than Cust? I dont see it. Pavano is slightly under-rated and would probably pitch pretty well here, but in theory, so would Mazzaro.
Honestly at this point Im all for a Chavez/Wallace platoon, I think Chavez absolutely MUST be platooned in 2010 for us to get any value out of him. Why not have a “passing of the torch” platoon with Wallace? You would think we might get 2 months out of Chavez that way and by then he will have taught Wallace a lot and he’ll be ready to takeover.
1B- Daric Barton
2B- Mark Ellis
SS- Cliff Pennington
3B- Eric Chavez/Brett Wallace
C- Kurt Suzuki
LF- Scott Hairston
CF – Raj Davis
RF- Ryan Sweeney
DH- Jack Cust
Bench-Powell/Cunningham/Petit or Patterson.
SP: Braden-Anderson-Gio-Cahill-Mazzaro
RP: Bailey-Devine-Meloan-Weurtz-Breslow-Zeigler-Kilby
I dont really see anything wrong with this. Its not as exciting as it was last year but I see so many improve years there I think its enough to surprise. As of this second (pre dealing), its a better situation than the M’s and Rangers and it can compete with LAA too. Those teams will all add bigger pieces true, but its refreshing to know we can sit on our hands this offseason and just let everyone here play and be pretty much as good if not better than we would be if we bought in players.
by PL78 on Nov 9, 2009 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're going to platoon two lefties?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 11:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think by "platoon" he means NSJ's plan
of starting Chavez with Wallace in AAA, and then plugging Wallace in as starter as soon as Chavvy breaks.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
iglew
thats one way of doing things, but I think Chavez is a special case and this isnt a typical L/R split platoon, its a “one is too hurt/one is too raw” platoon. They each would play literally every other day. Would be interesting imo…
by PL78 on Nov 11, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I ever have seen a team play two guys every other day
I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but it sounds doubtful. Usually teams base it on match ups and/or hot streaks (if there are such a thing) right?
interesting is the word for it but sucessful would probably not be the result.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Nov 12, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rockies dont plan to tender atkins a contract
add in tejada, feliz, beltre etc and if A’s are looking for short term help and have confidence no chavez then these are potential options
by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 9, 2009 2:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Miggy back for sure on a short term deal
And Glaus is pretty appealing, while I also could see the White Sox letting Dye walk….so he could be signed to a short term deal as well. Two out of the three works for me……
Thome not so much….
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on Nov 9, 2009 5:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why Miggy though?
He’s not the type of hitter, even in his prime, that succeeded at the Coliseum (lifetime 760 OPS). Compared with his 905 at the smaller Camden Yards, that should be a fair enough warning to stay far away. Now he’s old (and we dont even really know how old), and has dying power (would even Pennington hit more HR’s than him in 2010?) and never walks not to mention he is the perennial league leader in GIDPs, the worst thing a hitter can do. He cant really play defense too well either and would cost us money that would be better off spent on a mid-year insurance type player.
The arguments for Miggy coming back here consist entirely of how he can play other places than SS, only thing with that though: he has never done that in a big league game, ever. Other than DHing 23 times, he has existed entirely at SS, so people saying he can easily switch to 3B or cover at 2B, he’s never actually done that before, so its not too wise a move to expect him to just be able to make the switch really easily.
by PL78 on Nov 9, 2009 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I should have mentioned "Signing Miggy cheap"
But I get your point. At least he has stayed healthy in his career and has more power than anyone else slotted to play in the A’s infield next year. It probably won’t happen but ya never know…..stranger things have happened.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on Nov 10, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jamey Carroll come on down?
Shit, how did we miss this guy?
-Can play a good 3B
-Will be cheap
-Fangraphs says his $ value is always higher than what he’s paid
Seems like a nice placeholder for Wallace…
by PL78 on Nov 12, 2009 11:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Fangraphs disagrees that he can play a good 3B
His career is (-0.8) there. He won’t embarrass himself but I wouldn’t categorize him as “good”
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 12, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much all the negative is from 2002
“Fangraphs” does not disagree, and would categorize him as good.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Nov 12, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's never played a meaningful amount of games there in a season.
2002 was a 13 game sample out of 200+ games played total.
Besides, he’s played more than half of his career at second base.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 12, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
over 2008+2009
carroll played 66 games there and had a 1.8 and 0.8 WAR at 3B. Hence “good”…well technically its “decent” but that would be a dick-move to try and split the difference.
by PL78 on Nov 12, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
66 games over 2 years is a terribly small sample
I hope you realize this?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 13, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Uribe!!!!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Players who can't even slug their OBP make me want to gently strangle kittens
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 14, 2009 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes but please refer to my original post
“-Can play a good 3B
-Will be cheap
-Fangraphs says his $ value is always higher than what he’s paid”
for the ever loving god of FUCK please tell me your genius suggestion of who fits this, and quit getting caught up in near-worthless semantics. So the fuck what its a small sample scale, I dont see you putting forward anything.
AN = where if you throw out ideas, they will be shot down by those who never do anything else but shoot things down.
by PL78 on Nov 14, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your orignial post was a terrible idea.
There isn’t sufficient evidence that suggests that Carol can either A hit or B doesn’t suck at 3b. He cost $2.5m last year so he really isn’t that cheap considering that his upside is a 1.5 WAR player. The problem with your fangraphs statement is that around the margins of replacement level its not particularly valuable since the real replacement level varies from year to year at every position. For example last year we got Adam Kennedy for replacement level prices and he performed much better than that. So essentially non of your points are supported by evidence.
Jamey Carol is likely to be a replacement to less than 1 WAR player. He in a nutshell sucks. Hes pretty much almost as good as Adam Kennedy which in a non fluke year sucks. Essentially hes shittier than Cliff Pennington at 3b like significantly worse to the tune of 1 WAR.
If you don’t want to be ridiculed come up with suggestions that are supported by fact and don’t suck its not that hard.
Im a Beltre supporter but if you want to deny him to me on costs, I would sign Placido Polanco, Tejada, or John MacDonald
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 14, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is just factually inaccurate Carrol was worth 1.8 and .8 RUNS not wins
Please have your statistics within a factor of ten before using them
Signed,
The Committee Against Butchering Statistics.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 14, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not excited
about the Bill James model prediction of a .298 wOBA for 2010. I guess it depends on whether you expect him to keep his BABIP up around .340, like he has the last two years.
by colin on Nov 12, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah and Bill James model predictions are always optimistic.
It would be like Hannahan but worse since he cant field.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 14, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't it be ironic to sign Tejada to "replace" Chavez (since he will most likely be hurt)
Maybe Billy will do it just to try and make up for the mistake (in hindsight only, I was fine with the decesion when it happened). Although that wouldn’t make up for it now that Miggy is on the decline but maybe symbolically.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Nov 12, 2009 1:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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