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2010 Off-Season Blueprint

Should the A's spend this offseason, or save?  Should the team sign a few established veterans with question marks, or simply let the kids play?

AN seems divided.  The community is struggling to reconcile its desire to be competitive and spend an available $10-15M, with the painful realization that a.) much of the organization's best internal talent is still 1-2 years away, b.) the team had the worst attendance in baseball last year, and c.) the team, as presently constructed, will not make the playoffs in '10.

There's one very unique way, and one very unique target, who allows the A's to reconcile those two stances. This post will discuss that offseason strategy after the jump.

 

 

Star-divide

This post will be broken up into three sections: 

I. Roster Moves  II.  Justification/Analysis  III.  References/Resources

This is not typical AN style, but I think it will make it easier to navigate. As you're reading the first part, if you find a completely unsupported statement, please have faith that the explanation or citation is to follow.

I.  40-Man Roster Moves and Active Roster Decisions

A.  Let Garciaparra, Kennedy, Crosby, Tomko, and Duke all leave in free agency.

B.  Outright/nontender Casilla, Denorfia, and Marshall.

C.  Protect FDLS, Carter, Lansford, Recker, Figuroa, and Wimberly from the Rule 5 draft by adding all six players to the 40-man roster prior to the November 20th deadline.  I don't really think the team needs to protect all these guys, and I don't think they will, but I'm sticking to a clear emphasis on the future here in this post and each of these may have some future value.

D.  Sign 21-year-old Cuban free agent left-handed pitcher Aroldis Chapman to a front-loaded, eight-year, $60-million deal.

E.  That leaves exactly 40 players on the 40-man roster.  Treat Eric Chavez and Brett Wallace as a "1-for-1" on the 40-man roster from the start of spring camp.  Wallace currently isn't on the 40-man.  But as soon as Chavez inevitably breaks down and needs to placed on the 60-day DL, immediately purchase Wallace's contract and annoint him the starting 3b, whether that happens in late March, May, or later in the season.

F.  Let Eric Patterson, Travis Buck, and Aaron Cunningham get a lot of at-bats in Spring and compete for two roster slots.  Let Gregorio Petit be the backup middle infielder, since he's a good defender and can play a capable shortstop.  Thanks in part to drafting Grant Green, the organization has enough shortstops that it can promote internally and still survive the graduation of Petit and Pennington in the same year. 

G.  Explore a lot of cool offseason trades.  Eventually, realize that no one wants to give up anything substantive for a reliever (Wuertz) or a left fielder coming off a horrible second half (Hairston).  Keep both of them and hope the scenery changes by this July. 

Here's how the 25-man roster looks on Opening Day:

13 hitters:  Suzuki, Powell, Barton, Ellis, Pennington, Chavallace, Petit, Patterson, Cust, R. Davis, Sweeney, Hairston, Buckingham.

SPs:  Braden, Anderson, Gonzalez, Cahill, Mazzaro, Eveland, Chapman (In the rare chance that all seven are healthy, the two least effective are optioned and join Simmons, Mortensen, and eventually a re-habbing Josh Outman in the AAA rotation). 

7 relievers:  Devine, Bailey, Ziegler, Wuertz, Meloan, Kilby, Gray, Breslow, Blevins (in the rare chance that all nine are healthy and effective in spring, option two of them, and they'll inevitably shuttle up and down all year anyway).

II.  Justification/Analysis

The projected payroll of that group is slightly less than $50M.  Given that the A's had the worst attendance in baseball last year, and no reason to expect an uptick in '10, I think that low figure is perfectly justifiable. I think that last year showed that average Bay Area consumers won't come out to watch the A's just to see a couple of big names. Even prior to falling out of contention, there wasn't a major upswing in attendance with the arrivals of O-Cab, Holliday, Giambi, and Garciaparra. So there's no reason to expect that adding Glaus or Beltre for '10 would have a positive effect upon attendance, either. 

Eschewing the free agent market almost entirely, with the very notable exception of Chapman, afforded the luxury of protecting literally any Rule 5 eligible player that was even remotely intriguing and had future upside.  It would be a shame to let a good player get away for nothing, only to use that roster slot to sign an aging vet who doesn't contribute to a playoff season in a one-year deal. 

The above roster only has one sexy, intriguing new move, which will leave a lot of ANers flustered as they look at the exact same names who struggled to a sub-.500 season.  But avoiding FAs also gives a lot of players currently in the organization an opportunity to prove themselves, and there's a lot to watch there as the season rolls on:  Can Petit, Patterson, and Pennington be major leaguers? Can Barton be an everyday first baseman? Was Rajai Davis' 2009 entirely a fluke, or has he indeed made adjustments and improved as a major league hitter?  Will I finally get to watch Brett Wallace play third base and make a determination for myself, instead of reading a bunch of vague, lame Internet reports and staring at pictures of his ass and legs to try make the decision?  These are all questions I'm legitimately excited to see answered, and the pitching staff offers us similar ones.  Avoiding free agent re-treads will give us the opportunity to answer more of those than we would've otherwise. 

This thing will have to be rebuilt from the ground up.  Casual fans will become attracted to this team if and when it becomes a dynastic, perpetual playoff contender and the same faces stick around for a decade instead of being flipped for prospects after three years.  That's part of why I have no problem with annointing Wallace at 3b as soon as Chavez's body breaks down.  Wallace turns 24 during the season next year and has had a full, successful season of AAA.  I don't want a one-year stopgap; I want casual fans and their kids to get to know and grow attached to watching Brett Wallace.  With a new stadium on the horizon, I hope they'll get to keeping watching him for the next 10 years.

Obviously the most radical suggested move is the signing of Chapman, especially at such a high cost.  But I see no point in suggesting popular moves that are unrealistic.  "We should sign Holliday on a three-year, $30M deal!"  Most everyone would like that, but it would never happen.  Similarly, we have to assume that signing Chapman would likely require meeting his top asking price.  By now, all A's fans have hopefully accepted that Oakland is not the top destination for any free agent. That gives the team a few limited, undesirable options in free agency: 1.) pursue retreads and castoffs who don't have attractive opportunities elsewhere, or 2.) the dreaded "overpay," which is often a pejorative shorthand for "much more than the second-best offer on the table."

Clearly the team's recent free-agent signings have fallen into category #1, with mostly uninspiring results. I am advocating a radical, one-time shift to option #2 (well, until November of 2013, anyway).  But I insist on quibbling with semantics here.  An "overpay" implies that the player did not perform to the value of the contract he received.  Thanks to his age (21), Aroldis Chapman is the extremely rare example of a coveted free agent who could actually "outperform his contract," or provide surplus value, despite accepting an offer that was signficantly higher than the second-best one on the table. That couldn't happen with most elite free agents.  Mark Teixiera can't dramatically outperform his contract.  He received a very handsome deal that is commensurate with his production - and that's all that the Yankees need.  Tex's great season in 2009 is a perfect example - he produced 5.1 Wins Above Replacement (WAR), which was worth $23.1M according to Fangraphs' valuation system...and that was pretty close to what he was paid, when you factor in the signing bonus of his new contract. That works out just fine...for the Yankees.  Their payroll is high enough that their free agents don't need to provide surplus value.

The A's can't do that.  To win, they need to strategically pursue surplus value (and the accompanying surplus risk, yes) everywhere - even in free agency.

My point is, for the offer I've suggested, no one will know if its an overpay for several years. According to Fangraphs dollar valuations, there were 39 pitchers who produced at least $15M in value this year, and 45 who produced at least $14M.  The contract I've suggested puts Aroldis Chapman in an A's uniform for eight years, from age 22-29.  If four of those seasons are somewhere between "very good" and "great" - which I'm defining as the top 40 or so starting pitchers in the game via Fangraphs dollar valuation - then the deal actually has surplus value for the A's, even if Chapman does nothing for the other four seasons of the deal. 

Chapman's incredible upside is what makes me feel comfortable that he'll perform at the level of "top 40 MLB SP" at least a few times during his peak. Six-foot-4, 180 pounds, a fastball that's been clocked at 101, and lefthanded. The links you'll find below indicate that his pure "stuff" (especially his fastball velocity and slider movement) already rank among the best in the world.  

He's probably not ready to step right into the A's rotation.  But the length of the deal, and Chapman's age, actually fall in line perfectly with the A's next strong contending window.  He can spend the first 1-2 years adjusting, even in the minor leagues, and will hopefully be ready to justify the team's large investment when he's 23-24 in 2011-2012.  By that time, Cahill/Wallace/Cardenas/Carter & Co. will be providing tens of millions in surplus value for the big club, and Chapman's contribution will help reinforce the A's as the new AL West force.  Over the course of the lengthy deal, he would contribute to several A's playoff contending teams.

Contrast that scenario with spending $5-15M combined on one-year deals for Adrian Beltre, Brett Myers, Duke, or Troy Glaus.  The outlay being spent in 2010 is still approximately the same.  But the most likely scenario is that the team still doesn't make the playoffs and the player moves on after the season, with the A's having earned nothing from his time here, similar to Giambi's second go-around.  None of those four aforementioned players will help contribute to the next projected A's dynasty, which is why I'd prefer to avoid each of them. 

Mychael Urban wrote a recent piece on his MLB blog in which he insinuated that Giambi was critical of Bob Geren this year, and that the A's brass was wary of Giambi's influence on the younger players. That anecdote is part of why I don't want to bring in any one-year rentals that cost millions of dollars.  I think that 30-something veterans who have already banked tens of millions of dollars in greener pastures earlier in their career are always going to be privately cynical about Oakland's attendance, the difficulty to hit in Oakland's park, the perpetual youth movement, etc. Giambi is, by most accounts, a great guy, and even he apparently groused about the situation. It's just too easy to visualize Beltre, Myers, Glaus, and others of their ilk struggling, and doing exactly the same.  Honestly?  I guess I'm just at a point in my A's fandom where I'd rather watch guys who are just happy to be there, still earning their first few million and happy to be on a Major League field. 

III.  References/Resources

Aroldis Chapman-related rumors, including a few different authors linking him to the A's. 

Three different scouting-related articles devoted to Chapman:  Here, here, and here

Blez' two-part interview with Beane at the end of the '09 season:  Here and here

Three other AN perspectives on the A's potential offseason outlook (including grover's and Taj's): Here, here, and here.

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Hermida/Iwamura

WOuldve you taken a chance of both of these players?
The trade return given up seems minimal, it would be a question of taking on around $8mill in contracts.
Realistically, oakland isnt a hot a great attraction for free agents unless they are trying to reviv their careers, injury, age castoffs, etc. So wouldve that $8mill gone towards something else useful?

Iwamura slightly more expensive than kennedy may get, but a better player?
Hermida is kind of like Buck, last good season was in 07. Has struggled with injuries and production since. A’s dont really need another corner OF, but a good version Hermida might have higher upside that any other current OF.
I guess $3mill is nothing for red sox, but a fairly decent investment for A’s

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 5, 2009 9:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

both were already traded

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Nov 5, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good write up

Chapman is exactly the kind of move that the A’s really cant afford to make and I want to anyway. However, you already have $13m in Chavez coming off the books so even if Chapman is deadweight at 6/60 its really just treading water. If you don’t front load it until year 2 then you might be able to afford Beltre which with improvements in Anderson, a full year of Braden, and the rest of the rotation might you close to the playoffs.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 5, 2009 9:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Small markets generally don't absorb risk as well as large markets

though in this case it would be a dead weight swap with Chavez if it didn’t work out.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind seeing us get chapman

That’s just me though

by Twan54321 on Nov 6, 2009 12:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

A couple points...

1) Chavez broke down a couple years ago. He may have a handful of token appearances, but that’s it.

2) Attendance is down, in large part, because of the consistent losing. Losing isn’t appealing to the average non-fan who is just looking for some entertainment. For good or for bad it’s precisely those paying entertainment-seeking non-fans that are such a large part of any team’s attendance numbers.

If you’re going to attract them back you have to start winning first. Give them a reason to want to come back. Whether it’s best to build a winner from within over a few years, or jump-start one, is debatable and the choice of ownership, but whether or not it makes financial sense or not is irrelevant. They don’t care. They’re not coming back on a promise and hope.

All of which may be moot anyway, because I’m not convinced ownership even wants good attendance right now. I think it’s very likely that they want bad numbers so they can say they tried their best in Oakland and nothing was good enough… and get the door to San Jose opened. Just my black helicopter conspiracy theory, of course.

In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.

by UncleLeo on Nov 5, 2009 9:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

+1

Lew hates Oakland, he made that clear when he hated on us right before last season in the media. He want to leave and will take any excuse.

Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 5, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He hates Oakland.

Specifically. He mentioned it once, in passing, when I met him at the Half-Price Bookstore in Fremont off of Automall. We took a walk down the road that runs behind Costco and Lowe’s, and he pointed out where the park and other structures would be. We laughed, we patted each other’s backs, and shared a sundae from Coldstone. I didn’t think of it at the time, but he did whisper to himself that he might still be too close to Oakland, and now that SJ is in the mix, that comment makes sense to me now.

All kidding aside, I don’t think he ‘hates’ Oakland, he just doesn’t see that dollar signs are associated with keeping the team there, and I have to agree. Oakland has nothing to offer except 40 years of history which isn’t enough to bring in enough fans for 81 days a year.

The solution is to make the product better. The product is made up of many things, in no particular order:
1. Stadium Experience (food, ease of attending, crowd energy, astetics, cost, facilities)
2. Team (on-field performance, personality, player familiarity)
3. Media (radio and tv broadcasting team, quality, range)

The way I see it, #3 has been worked on in regards to TV quality and availablilty, and Radio hopefully has some changes coming in the future. #1 is Lew’s domain, and the move to SJ (and hopefully a switch away from Aramark) is a huge step in that regard for practically every aspect. One way to help #2 is what NSJ’s whole blog post is analyzing.

by LoneStranger on Nov 11, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Attendance is down, in large part, because Oakland's surrounding fan-base no longer spends money on this team.
2) Attendance is down, in large part, because of the consistent losing.

Consistent losing can’t be the only reason. This has been happening for some time. See link.

http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/7/29/967092/the-years-after-moneyball-espn#18878632

by LowcountryJoe on Nov 7, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say the only reason.

When you’re always losing… and you’re God-awful boring in doing it… you’ve pretty much taken away one of the big reasons the average non-fan would even consider a game as an entertainment option.

In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.

by UncleLeo on Nov 7, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, but you did write 'in large part'

I simply wanted to demonstrate that even when the team was winning big (winning percentage approaching or exeeding .600), the attendance was still at or very well below the average American League draw.

by LowcountryJoe on Nov 8, 2009 5:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Historically...

…the A’s have never drawn well. Especially in relation to other top-drawing teams… late 80s era excepted. It’s not ideal, but until they get something awesome like a new stadium in San Jose, reality is that they should be judged differently than the top-drawing teams. Average… while certainly not great… isn’t bad either.

As long as they’re in the Coliseum, the days where they might dominate the area are over since the Giants no longer play at Candlestick. If they could just hover around average until they do get a new stadium they’d be fine.

In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.

by UncleLeo on Nov 8, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why is everyone so down on Jay Marshall? His Sept callup aside (which he was hurt for) he absolutely kills lefties. In Sac this last year he threw 25 total inn against lefties to a tune of a .179ba and a 1.80era. I think if he was let go he would be taken in a second. He should make the team to face tough lefties in late innings.

by skalordes on Nov 5, 2009 10:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Replaceable......

with any number of guys itching for their shot. Average relievers are a dime-a-dozen…..

Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 5, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your faith in Wallace is touching, but...

His MLE OPS last season was like .680. Even assuming steady improvement in his hitting ability, with his defensive woes, it’s difficult to conceive of how he could be even a decent player next season. I have no little difficulty with the notion that he can EVER be a decent player at third base— Ryan Braun couldn’t hit his way into a continued job there and it doesn’t look like Mat Gamel will either— but at the very least this is blowing a year of his service time and likely the team’s hopes of contending in 2010 on the speculative-at-best assessment that he’ll develop better in the majors than in AAA.

I mean, didn’t we go through this with Barton two years ago? He put up decent but not great numbers in AAA. Everyone (myself included) confused that with being ready for the bigs, resulting in a black hole at 1B in 2008, not to mention a lot of wasted service time.

I like DFA’s plan better. The “tight/aggressive” approach to free agency is (as it usually is in other walks of life as well) pretty clearly the right move, but the A’s need to focus their resources better on the real problem area— the left side of the infield. Sign Beltre and Chapman, arrange the contracts however they need to be arranged (I find it implausible that the team couldn’t just eat a small loss in 2010 if it needed to, but it’s not really all that important an issue) and get ready to leave the free agent market alone for the next 5 years, except for inking a backup shortstop for a mill or so a year. (By the time Beltre’s deal [I’m figuring 3 years/27M] is up, there will be too many players in arbitration to sign another free agent to replace him.) Shortstop will probably continue to be a problem, but Pennington is decent enough that he won’t kill the team out of the 9 hole.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2009 10:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Actually.......

Bill James predicts an OPS of .757 for Wallace as a rookie. Ill take it! Bill James is obviously smarter than us all too.

Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 5, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bill James projections are always way too optimistic

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Nov 5, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'ed

Bill James thought I would OPS .680 and I couldn’t hit in HS. Im just saying.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I appreciate your perspective.

Of course I would like to have Beltre and Chapman, and I’m certain that Beltre will outperform whatever Wallace will do at the third base next year. If DFA’s idea played out as you suggest, I’d be ecstatic.

But I am skeptical that the A’s could sign Beltre. I actually think the A’s have a better chance of being in on Chapman than on Beltre. Taj wrote something that I thought was really insightful the other day. Paraphrasing, he basically pointed out that, if you were a hitter attempting to rebuild your value, Oakland is perhaps the worst possible place to do it – it’s in the AL, and it’s a brutal hitters’ park. Beltre already did that once in free agency, and I doubt he’d want to consciously pick a place that hurts his numbers again.

Now, the counter-argument would be, the A’s could give him a 3-or-4-year offer, so that he wouldn’t need to worry much about rebuilding value. But from Beltre’s perspective, why would he want to commit 3-4 years to a franchise that (his perspective here) has an ugly stadium that’s really hard to hit in, poor attendance, little chance of contending, and presumably none of his buddies? He’s already banked more than $70M in his career.

Chapman’s situation is slightly different. I could realistically see him being enticed with simply the biggest offer he receives. He wants to set up his family for life. He’s less likely than a 10-year vet to pick a franchise based upon his prior relationships or familiarity, because no matter where he signs, it’s a dramatic adjustment for him. And, he probably wants to pitch in the majors right away or as soon as possible, which the Yankees and Red Sox can’t promise him in ’10, but a rebuilding team theoretically could.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 6, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm firmly in the camp which believes that players almost always take the offer with the most money

or at least the highest annual rate. In an ideal world, perhaps players who had already banked $70M would be less… prone to avidity than the average citizen. But this ain’t an ideal world.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2009 12:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. More often than not... money talks.

In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.

by UncleLeo on Nov 6, 2009 6:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But the argument is specific to players

who are rebuilding their value. Going to Oakland costs them money on future contracts.

Conversely, this should mean we’re appealing to pitchers on the rebound…

by ohmangoAs on Nov 8, 2009 12:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have a problem with that assessment

I just think the number of deliberate “rebuild-your-value” contracts is actually quite small. Most players who are really in that situation don’t have a ton of choice in their situation.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And can put up "good park adjusted numbers"

in Oakland just as easily as anywhere else.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 8, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with your analysis of Chapman

additionally, pitching in Oakland has the benefits of well regarded set of coaches and a statistics enhancing park when looking ahead to his contract for year 7.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Chevas' defense wasn't great when he came up. Wash made him a great defender

I would love to see Wallace come up in 2010 and get a chance… and hopefully they can help him at defense

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Nov 6, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Chavez was coached up a lot

But the difference is that Chavez struggled with technique and consistency while Wallace struggles with mobility and range. Technique can be coached size and range are much harder to improve.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 6, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How about Tejada instead of Beltre?

Beltre may be marginally better than Tejada going forward, but I think Tejada makes up for this in other ways. For one, he’s less likely to get a long term contract due to his age (not necessarily a good thing, but more on that in a second). It also seems unlikely that Tejada would share some of the misgivings about signing in Oakland that nsj discussed wrt Beltre.

But most importantly, if it holds true that a SS can pretty much play anywhere on the infield, Tejada could potentially save the A’s a roster spot: if the A’s sign Beltre/Kennedy/Glaus/DaRosa etc. they still only have one SS. Carrying Tejada would allow the A’s to carry three players (Chavez/Wallace, Tejada, Pennington), where they otherwise would be carrying four (Chavez, Kennedy, Pennington and Petit). If Tejada can play some first and third in addition to SS, he buys the A’s some time and flexibility to see what’s going on with Chavez, Wallace, and Carter without blocking any of them (even if he’s signed to a multi-year deal). And unlike Pennington and Petit (or Crosby and Garciaparra for that matter), his bat would actually play well outside of SS. The A’s could use the saved roster spot to add a cheap, high risk high reward type (probably a corner OF), or they could simply use it to carry an extra pitcher and audition some young guys.

Some might point out that Tejada is not so much headed for decline as he is actually declining, but I think this can be over-emphasized. The two big knocks on him are his glove, and the fact that his HR power has dropped off by about 10 dingers or so in recent years. As far as his glove goes, the idea is Miggy wouldn’t play SS unless Chavy is healthy or Pennington is injured. Hopefully he could be slightly below a average 3B and slightly above average 1B. To be clear, I’m not talking about signing Tejada as a “super-utility” type – he would be an everyday player, albeit one who moves around depending on the rest of the roster. Hopefully, as an aging, defensively challenged player he is amenable to this idea, otherwise this whole screed is bunk. As for his offense, his fly ball percentage has declined maybe 4% or so from his peak years, but his line drive and ground ball rates have been pretty steady. Despite hitting fewer home runs, Miggy is still showing what could be called young player skills at the plate – he has a quick swing and has consistently hit for a high average. He’s a good bet to OPS in the upper .700s, meaning he’s no worse than average offensively at 1B.

Finally, there are few players in baseball who are as consistently healthy and able to handle a “work horse” type “load” as Miggy. You won’t find many players who have taken the field more often than Beltre in recent years, but Miggy is one.

"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs

by Aufheben on Nov 6, 2009 8:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're basically billing Tejada as a

“DeRosa who can play SS,” which is a pretty good way to sell him if you’re looking to sell him.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 6, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess...

If I was interested in saving three paragraphs of my life, that is…

"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs

by Aufheben on Nov 6, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be very concerned about Tejada's bat

His continued decline in skills was masked by an almost certainly unsustainable BABIP spike this season. Moreover, I suspect a number of his homers would not be such in Oakland. No Crawford Boxes out here…

Couple this with what we can expect would be a -5 run glove or worse, and you could be looking at a player who was only incrementally more productive than Crosby, or indeed Pennington.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 12:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Tejada's BABIPs have been rather gaudy since 2002.

They’ve also generally been .120 above his LD%, suggesting he’s not merely getting lucky – he’s a legitimate high BABIP dude. A simple average of his BABIPs during this period gives you .312. Even if Tejada falls to a league average BABIP from this year’s .323 mark, you’re talking about a batting average in the .290s instead of the .310s, if that.

"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs

by Aufheben on Nov 7, 2009 1:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He also seems to have cut down on his K's

along with his homeruns.

"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs

by Aufheben on Nov 7, 2009 1:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

its funny

In oakland he never came close to a .300 babip, in baltimore+hou he’s been between .303-.349.

Lets um, stay away from him. He’s not the power bat he once was and honstly Id rather save the dough and roll with Pennington.

by PL78 on Nov 9, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The 2.5% NL walk rate terrifies me, but Tejada is the best SS/3b option if you think that that flexibility is important.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have one problem with your plan.......

You fail to take into account what is supposed to be a better than average Rule 5 Draft. The A’s must leave a spot open, probably 2, for that draft in December. The Rule 5 draft is a great resource for rebuilding teams, and Billy likes to take advantage. Jay Marshall and Ben Copeland come to mind, thought the later had to be waived due to the rash of injuries in 2008.

To solve this problem I would add Petit to the waive/release group, as he is most easily replaceable in the A’s system.

I do like getting Chapman, though I dont think it will ever actually happen.

Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 5, 2009 10:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wait, who claimed that this would be a better than average Rule 5 draft?

How on earth could they possibly know? Teams don’t have to set their rosters for it until like two weeks from now.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

This Rule 5 draft crop will probably be worse than previous years. Teams are more likely than ever to preserve their youth, given the defensive revolution and the state of the economy.

Trust me, sOsNelsdkfjlsa;dfj, Paul and I are Rule 5 draft dorks and have been for years. If it was something to get excited about, I would be. But the A’s won’t have a high pick in that draft and even if they did, their track record suggests they’d select a lemon, anyway.

Now, I could see them protecting one or two less guys from the list above and taking a flier on someone, but waiving Gregorio Petit to do it? I think this is unlikely, because Gregorio is probably better than whatever dreg is on the board with the 9th pick in the Rule 5 draft.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 5, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the great info PT

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Nov 6, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

awesome info

thank you paul and paul

by PL78 on Nov 6, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Some of that

Makes allot more sense now

by Twan54321 on Nov 6, 2009 1:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

very good points, Paul.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 6, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Alright, I don't see how that article supports your claim

You claim that protecting Lansford makes it significantly more likely the A’s lose him if they protect him from the Rule 5 draft this December. DePo’s article does not support that claim in the slightest, unless you’re arguing that it’s the A’s who might somehow run out of room on the 40 man roster via free agent splurging. That doesn’t seem likely.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 6, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I kinda get where he's going

I think there are a number of reasons a player might have to be removed from the 40 man roster, and in my opinion it’s more likely the A’s would want to take him off the 40-man at some point in the next year than some other team keeping him on a 25-man for a whole season. I think that made sense.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 6, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I know where he was trying to go

I just don’t think he can back up the claim.

When the free agents declare, Oakland’s 40 man roster will sit at 36. Santiago Casilla and Chris Denorfia are excellent candidates to be non-tendered or released as they are out of options and sucked in 2009.

That’s 34 spots. We know that Carter, DLS and Figueroa are being added to the 40 man. That’s 37 spots.

Recker, Godfrey, Lansford and Wimberly remain.

Eveland and Patterson are out of options, if they aren’t on the 25 man roster the A’s have to place them on waivers before they can send them to the minors. Chances are the A’s will end up trading them before losing them on waivers. Tommy Everidge has no place on the 40 man if Chris Carter is healthy. Jay Marshall is buried behind Breslow, Blevins and Kilby. Plus Josh Outman is going to start next season on the 60 day DL. You can find at least 3 roster spots from this group, not counting Outman’s impending DL stay.

That’s back to 6 openings on the 40 man. That’s plenty of room to keep Recker, Wimberly, Godfrey and Lansford, plus re-sign Kennedy and sign a SP. And that’s assuming the A’s want to keep all of Recker, Wimberly, Godfrey and Lansford.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 6, 2009 8:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The point I am attempting, perhaps poorly, to make

is that the A’s are better off playing with 39 guys on their 40-man roster and leaving the 40th slot open than they are putting Lansford on it.

There are plenty of guys (Wallace, Cardenas, Desme, Brown, the list goes on) who have a shot at getting a big-league spot in 2009. Who gets kicked off the 40-man to put them on? Maybe someone on the 60-day DL, but maybe not. If not, the odds are pretty good that it ends up being Lansford.

In the event that it is, a waiver claim is decently likely. By contrast, the odds of him sticking on a 25-man roster for a full season are so small as to be dismissable out of hand.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 12:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I get your point

I am challenging you to prove (or at least show a strong argument) that it is significantly more likely that the A’s would lose Lansford before 2011 if they protected him from the December 2009 Rule 5 draft rather than leave him off the 40 man roster.

I agree that the scenario you outlined above is certainly possible but I disagree that it is more probable than the risk of losing him in the Rule 5 draft. Pitchers are the easiest player to stash on the 25 man roster, especially if they happen to throw hard and have some idea where the ball is going.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 7, 2009 7:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hm

In 2009, there were 21 players selected in Rule 5. 5 of them were position players, so we’ll ignore them (except to note that 4 of 5 were offered back). One guy spent the entire year on the 60-day DL, effectively postponing his rule 5 year to 2010. Of the remaining 15:

Held on a big-league roster
Luis Perdomo
Darren O’Day

Either drafting team acquired full rights somehow, or were offered back and not repurchased
Donald Veal
David Patton
Jason Jones

Not kept
Terrell Young
Kyle Bloom
Jose Lugo
Zach Kroenke
Gilbert de la Vara
Eduardo Morlan
Robert Mosebach
Derek Rodriguez
Ivan Nova
Rocky Cherry

This suggests that if Lansford is selected, there is roughly an 80-90% chance that he will be offered back to the A’s. Compound that with the (very high, IMO— I mean, if Kilby wasn’t taken last year…) odds that he won’t be selected and you’re probably looking at like a 5% chance of losing him through Rule 5. If that. (It should also be noted that 2 of the 3 players who were kept were kept by the benighted Padres. Surely they will eventually run out of roster spots…)

Waivers are harder to evaluate because I just don’t have a list of players who were waived this season the way I have a list of Rule 5 picks.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice first step

You don’t need a list of waiver fodder, all you need to do is attempt to show the likliehood of Lansford being taken off the 40 man in response to future roster moves made by the A’s.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 7, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol.....

I realize I was reading an article on the 2008 Rule 5 written last december. My bad…..

However, there are always jems to be found, and I would love to find the next Clemente, Bonia, Santana, Ugla, or Victorino, and Im willing to give up an unproven Utility guy thats easily replaceable with any number of A’s prospects already in the system. You?

Makes all the sense in the world if your thinking big picture. Sure you might miss on the pick, but you also miught miss out on the next diamond in the ruff, ehhh?

Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 6, 2009 2:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You keep saying Petit is easily replaceable with any number of A's prospects

Who exactly are these supposed prospects? Josh Horton? Cardenas? Imaginary friend?

BTW, it’s “diamond in the rough.” Diamonds in the ruff might make sense if you were playing contract bridge, but this is baseball…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Patterson, Wimberly, Weeks, Cardenas.......

and the list goes on too…..

Chen and Horton should be included too…..

Is that enough for you?

Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 6, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

None of the first four guys you mentioned play shortstop competently

a few of them don’t even play SS at all.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 6, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't think Chen does either.

And you could at least argue that Horton doesn’t, depending on the definition of “competently.”

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 12:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd do backflips if he could

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 7, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I was just mistaken

since I’m pretty sure you can’t do backflips…

by colin on Nov 7, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd do backflips if he could though

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cardenas may not be able to play SS competently on a regular basis

but I can see him filling in there. I can see him being a useful utility IF by subbing for Wallace at 3B defensively, for Ellis at 2B during injury times and by filling in at SS after Pennington is pinch hit for.

Given how little the utility IF has to play SS, I don’t see why a marginal defender can’t be in that role. Of course they’d have to change their policy of playing with 23 guys when the starting SS can’t play a few games. That’s the time to bring up someone like Petit.

Remember Howard Johnson played quite a bit of SS for a pretty good team.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And he didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn the night before!

Or at least it would be extremely ironic if he did.

I think the more significant point here is that Cardenas should not be wasted in a utility role. If anything, the better play if the A’s cannot find any other shortstop (and can’t find a new 3Bman either) is to keep Wallace in AAA, start Cardenas at third and move him over to short when Pennington is out.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This makes sense if Wallace can't play 3B....which is quite possible.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One of the names on your list

illustrates the trickiness of the Rule 5 Draft. Shane Victorino was a rule 5 selection twice, but both times the selecting team failed to keep him on the roster for the full year and had to offer him back. In the second of those, the Dodgers made a deal that let the Phillies keep him and send him to AAA, but they could have claimed him back if they wanted to.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 6, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The point is he was available......

and the A’s will have no reason not to keep their Rule 5 This year with so many A’s players with so many options left.

I dont want to argue, really! But this team needs to take any and every opportunity to get better for the long term, cause realistically, were still a year or two away from real contention.

Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 6, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad to see someone has a little faith in Eric Patterson.

I hope that Cunningham gets a job out of spring training, and is given an extended shot.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Nov 5, 2009 11:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think we should put him at catcher,

just to see how many guys would steal 3B — from 1B.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 6, 2009 7:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think more people should have better faith in him.

I mean did you see his season last year? I think he earned a little extra playing time because of what he did in AAA.

by Twan54321 on Nov 6, 2009 1:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

xavier nady

I’m curious what his offseason market will be coming off an injury and out for most of the season. If A’s didnt blow their load on hairston, maybe nady couldve been a semi affordable right handed bat.

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 5, 2009 11:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

This reads like a marketing document

and I say that as someone who works in that sort of sector as a profession; in other words, I find it seductive and well writen.

It does rely on the A’s being able to go out and make a sell on their young players, and then them performing; in a way not dissimilar to the Giants giving the big up to Lincecum and Cain. I’m sure there are many of us here who appreciate the gains that Anderson et al made this season, but it’s going to take more than a humorous ad in April, no?

Perhaps Tim Cahill should grow his hair long and get done for possesion.

Actually, I’m semi serious about that.

by bobnothing on Nov 5, 2009 11:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Tim Cahill is too busy making runs into the 6-yard box and escaping his marker on set pieces to be bothered with such things

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2009 12:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Take it from someone who has been a baseball fan for years --

Tim Cahill is NOT a good thrower! (Seriously, I think I saw him throw twice last year and he gave up points like they were Donni’s hair — going out of style.)

-Cindi

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 6, 2009 7:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe that's the first time I've made that mistake

Normally I manage to correct myself. In my defense, I had been inhaling smoke at a bonfire all evening

by bobnothing on Nov 6, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I love Oakland PD Pot Confiscation Burns...

the whole neighborhood gets high.

Next month, they’re gonna call in the guys from MythBusters and use det cord to BLOW THE POT UP!

It’s gonna rock!

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 11, 2009 1:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The fan in me says "sign Beltre!

and the gm in me doesn’t find anything wrong with that. As much as I can understand and agree with most of the plan laid above (minus letting Wallace play an entire season at 3rd, which is bound to happen if the other guy is Chavez), it sure doesn’t leave me with a feeling of excitement. For as well as our team did in the second half, I’m seriously doubting that that lineup will play .500 ball for an entire season. I’m kind of hoping for maybe one player that may help us out, whether it be Beltre or possibly a starting pitcher (if there is actually one that we can get).

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 6, 2009 5:18 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I want more from Beltre than he could possibly deliver

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 11, 2009 1:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

great breakfast read

I love these well-written and well thought out posts about what the A’s may and possibly should do in the off-season.

If we compared the best of these w/ what actually happens come beginning of the season, I wonder how many would be remotely close to what moves the A’s do, in fact, make.

like those series prediction threads….

thanks for the read

by my_cat_max on Nov 6, 2009 7:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Definitely well-written and insightful NSJ, as usual!

I wish I possessed your Rivera-ian efficiency of effective writing…I feel more like Gio whenever I put something up, just trying to get through 6 innings without perpetually serving up gopher balls because I’ve fallen behind 3-1 to the opposition 3-4-5 hitters.

Anyways, your idea about Chapman is definitely intriguing. I started to salivate when envisioning a 2012/2013 starting rotation in some new Bay Area stadium : Anderson, Cahill, Ynoa, Chapman and really any one of Mazzaro, Ross, Capra, etcetera…that would just be a ridiculous rotation.

I’m not sure if Chapman is feasible though…it seems like his situation is totally different then that of Ynoa. With Michael, it seemed like the A’s were the most aggressive suitor from the get -go and made personal contact the kid’s family and basically had the guy signed, sealed and delivered even before the international signing period (which was borderline illegal and other teams have insinuated as much…) Basically, with Ynoa, the A’s did their homework and were the most aggressive, and everyone else seemed to be late to the party.

With Chapman, that situation certainly does not seem to be the case – there is no clear cut “first team in line” for his services. His reps have met with everyone from New York and Boston, to St Louis and Detroit. The competitiveness for this guy is going to be heavy and a free-for-all. That other teams have a better Cuban connection than the A’s (Anaheim, CWS) and much more cash to make a borderline-historic investment in him (BOS/NYY) without being hamstrung for years, will make it even more difficult for the A’s to sign him for anything even approaching “fair value”. Bottom line, I just don’t see it happening.

Besides Chapman, I think the rest of your post is pretty solid, and even though I’ve advocated a more pro-active “get the 1-year vets to give us a chance” route I can certainly understand your reluctance to adopt that strategy…and more importantly, I can definitely see A’s management express that same sort of reluctance and proceed with a strategy more resembling yours, rather than mine…

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 6, 2009 8:01 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hardy no longer an option for the A's

JJ Hardy traded to Twins for Carlos Gomez
Link

by faninphilly on Nov 6, 2009 9:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Um... wow.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 6, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This was my bad news of the day

Iwamura and Hardy were two guys I was really hoping the A’s would look at acquiring and already they have both ben picked up for relatively nothing. If somebody else gets Yunel Escobar for a good relief arm and young outfielder with some question marks I may start pulling my hair out.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 6, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

iwamura/hardy in this IF woulde been huge

gomez was the twins version of carlos gonzalez 08 edition. great talent and upside, but never put it together, spahn took his everyday cf job.

The only way might have been giving up a sweeney or rajai + pitching, A’s seem committed to pennington which isnt a terrible option.

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 6, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rajai is better than Gomez

Why would pitching need to be added?

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 6, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess one minor reason they might have preferred Gomez to Rajai:

Raj might get a little over $1 million in arbitration, while Gomez is locked in at 400K. Maybe they are penny-pinching that much in order to make room for a few free agent pitching pick-ups like Lackey and/or Washburn…

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 6, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, contract status is the only big difference.

But I don’t know if 700K is going to be the deal breaker for Milwaukee signing one of those guys.

Dunno if Beane/Forst even made an attempt though, so who knows.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 6, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

With trades, it's never certain that anyone else even HEARD about the deal, much less made an attempt to beat it

Sometimes a team is openly shopping a player, but other times deals get put together so quickly that no one else even gets wind before the paperwork is already filed.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess my hope was

that as soon as the season ended for the A’s and Brewers Beane was at least inquiring into the possibility of adding Hardy. I mean it was pretty obvious by September that he wasn’t staying in Milwaukee.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 6, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yet their comments about pennington said otherwise

which they seemed satisfied and willing to give him a chance. No idea what their plan B is if he does struggle. petit and maybe horton would be the only upper level alternatives

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 6, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'm pissed that the the Twinkies swooped in on Hardy

before the A’s did. Good trade for Minny, though.

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Nov 6, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I like most of this

but have to agree with PT in part about Wallace—there’s no sense in counting on him being a part of the 2010 squad (although I disagree with writing him off as a 3B at this stage of his career). The A’s need a fungible solution at 3B that’s of the highest quality reasonably possible for next year.

In an ideal world, it would be Chavez, since he’s a sunk cost, but since we all know how likely that is(n’t), something else is needed. Figgins is nice since he has some potential to play other positions if necessary; whether or not he’ll be affordable is another question. I tend to think the Angels will keep him, so it may well be a moot point, anyway.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Nov 6, 2009 10:53 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Derosa?

It seems like the A’s inquired on him during the season. Could be signed to a reasonable two-year deal, and unlike Beltre/Glaus, he could slide over to 2nd or one of the outfield corners if Wallace is ready and able to play 3rd at some point in 2011.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 6, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Err...

“at some point in 2010…”

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 6, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you ignore...

This player having less power and less defensive value, then Patterson could be like a cheap version of derosa…lets hope!!

by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 6, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at DeRosa's career track record, 2008 looks disturbingly fluky

and he’s 36 next year. He could be a very, very poor sign.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 6, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely won't expect a 2007-ish .850 OPS out of DeRosa...

but even this year battling a rash of fairly debilitating injuries he still hit a career-high 23 homers and had a .183 ISO, which is Adrian Beltre’s career average ISO coincidentally. Those numbers are certainly a shit-ton better than anything Adam Kennedy can put together (not saying much, I know, even though I’m a Kennedy-is-a-good-option-for-a-dirt-cheap-price supporter).

Minor correction…I think DeRosa will be 35 next year not 36 (Fangraphs has his b-day as 2/26/75), but the difference is trivial.

I’m not a huge fan of DeRosa in any case, mainly because although you hear a lot about his “Defensive versatility”, he certainly doesn’t seem like a very good defender in any place except for the corner outfield spots, where his bat doesn’t really play.

Anyways, I mention his name because there were published reports that the A’s were in on him during the season and he’d be an upgrade over Kennedy in a utility role and depending on how the markey shapes up, he could come for a fairly modest, short-term price.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 6, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Note to AN (and not just Taj)

A utility IF must be able to play SS.

Thank you.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 6, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I keep saying this

No one has an idea of who we will sign at SS either to backup Pennington or replace him… its got to be someone.

by DrDoom on Nov 6, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If we go external my prediction is John McDonald

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 6, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Damn, that's underwhelming. :-(

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 6, 2009 11:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It is, but I'm not sure the alternatives are any better

Khalil Greene? Alex Cora? Adam Everett? Crosby’s out… maybe the Sox will decide Alex Gonzalez isn’t worth $6M next season, but he might be looking for a starting job.

The shortstop list looks really horrible once you get down past Marco Scutaro.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 12:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I know.

Sure makes that JJ Hardy deal sting a bit more, huh?

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 7, 2009 1:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe the A's couldn't and wouldn't top the Twins' offer

Buck? Simmons? H-Rod? All expendable pieces. There had to be a win-win deal in there if the Brewers were just looking for a better deal than Carlos Gomez.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 7, 2009 9:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose it depends on what you think of Doug Melvin

But I have read speculation other places (Lookout Landing for instance) that Melvin wasn’t looking for an offer equal to or better than Gomez in value so much as he was looking for a cost-controlled CF with potential. I think the Buck and H-Rod are probably just as good or better in terms of overall “value”, but if Melvin wanted a Mike Cameron replacement, they won’t do it, and we really don’t have anyone who will (unless we were willing to trade Rajai and Melvin thought he had potential).

by el generico on Nov 7, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And even then, Rajai is less cost-controlled

He’s arbitration-eligible for next year, right?

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 7, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gomez might be, too

Now, Davis will probably make more money, but that’s on account of being, you know, better.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

Only on a one-year deal, or cheap one-plus-one, though. The positional flexibility is a plus for him, to be sure. He is a little risky. Better than AK, though.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Nov 6, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The word "fungible" describes a commodity

when items or quantities of the commodity are functionally equivalent and easily exchanged. Cash is fungible. A product like gold is fungible because you can fairly easily exchange x ounces of gold and it makes little difference whether it’s these ounces or those ounces. A commodity like works of art is not fungible because they’re all different with different values, and exchanging them is not simple.

When people say relief pitchers are “fungible”, they are suggesting that good relief pitchers are not much different from one another and are easily replaced. When a commodity is fungible, one need not get attached to it. For example, if you spend $10 on something, you might care about whether you got your money’s worth, but you don’t care about that particular 10-dollar bill, because later you can sell something and get another 10-dollar bill which is just as useful. The implication then is that there’s no need to get attached to any particular relief pitcher because whenever you find yourself in need of one, you can go out and get another who is just as good.

All of which is a roundabout way of me saying that I don’t understand what you mean by a “fungible solution at 3B”. Am I missing something, or did you mean to use a different word?

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 6, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant to use a different word.

I should have been more careful using it the same way it is used about relief pitchers. “Temporary” would have been better.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Nov 6, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bullpen gets no respect around here

I’m pretty sure that there are major league teams whose bullpens actually suck. Obviously, those teams have not been able to locate the “Relief Pitcher Superstore” where good arms are always on sale. I’m glad that the A’s pen is really good, and that we have quite a bit of depth there. But not all teams can say that.

by redtopcowboy on Nov 6, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Bullpen is valuable, sure

But the individual pitchers themselves, less so

by bobnothing on Nov 6, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well then maybe we should trade the whole bullpen

What about the whole bullpen to Philadelphia for Utley, Happ, and a bunch of money?

Then the club can sell the Coliseum for scrap and play home games in mall parking lots, like World Team Tennis.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 11, 2009 1:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Utley is worth more than the whole bullpen by himself

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And there are plenty of people in the world

that have a hell of a lot more cash than I do, as well as many with a hell of a lot less. That doesn’t mean cash isn’t fungible.

We’re not saying that bullpen pitchers are without value. We’re saying that there’s no opportunity difficulty in disposing or obtaining them when you need to. You still should get value in return when giving up a good one and you still should expect to give up value when you collect one. The point of fungibility is that the exchange is easily made and you don’t have to worry about being caught without one in a year with a bad crop.

The teams who have sucky bullpens are the ones who have for whatever reason chosen not to hold their roster wealth in the bullpen. Any team with a crappy bullpen can cash in a good player for more arms. On the other hand, a team lacking a decent shortstop might just be shit out of luck if there aren’t any good ones left.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 6, 2009 7:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The easy way to make cash fungible

is to bury it in the ground unprotected. Then it will get fungus all over it.

You’re welcome.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 11, 2009 1:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Brett Wallace

Others have hinted at it, but I would like it, NSJ, if you’d elaborate a bit on how likely you think it is that Wallace can stick at 3B. This is a hotly debated topic around AN with differing opinions, and yours is an opinion I value.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 6, 2009 12:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It sounds to me like NSJ thinks Wallace can play there at least for a few years
That’s part of why I have no problem with annointing Wallace at 3b as soon as Chavez’s body breaks down. Wallace turns 24 during the season next year and has had a full, successful season of AAA. I don’t want a one-year stopgap; I want casual fans and their kids to get to know and grow attached to watching Brett Wallace. With a new stadium on the horizon, I hope they’ll get to keeping watching him for the next 10 years.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That sounds to me like "initially," not "at least for a few years."

If he comes up at 3B and if he can hit big league pitching, Wallace will play somewhere continuously no matter what.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 8, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Including the "I don't want a one year stopgap" comment?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he means a new player signed to a one-year deal

I’m not sure he’d be opposed to having Wallace play 3B and then either stay there or move over to 1B or DH if Cardenas comes up ready to rock & roll at 3B from 2011 on.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 8, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem I've always had with that reasoning

Is that if you move Cardenas to 3B and Wallace to 1B and Carter to LF etc… then instead of having bad defense at 3B with Wallace you now have bad defense all over the field. I realize, though, that Wallace may force their hand so my point may be obsolete.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Nov 8, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't follow this at all

Cardenas is a much better third baseman than Wallace. Wallace is probably a much better first baseman than Carter.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't heard all that great of things

About Cardenas at 3B. But I’ve probably just been looking in the wrong places so that answers that. And I guess I have more faith in Wallace being able to man 3B competently than others.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Nov 8, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where did you hear this?

Because I haven’t read anything that compares the two defensively and minorleaguesplits rates Cardenas as a -2 in 70 chances at 3B vs. Wallace’s +2 in 190 chances at 3B. I’ll be more than happy to read any links you can offer on this subject.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 8, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to have to retract this one

While I’d be shocked if Wallace turned out to be the better of the two, I don’t have any particular citation for it, just inference from the fact that Cardenas plays other infield positions decently.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 11:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be shocked too. There's no way anyone would put Wallace at SS

for example, even in AA.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 8:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, the whole point is that defense is different depending on the position.

Barton is horrible at 3B, but substantially above-average at 1B. Ryan Braun was an absolute trainwreck at 3B, but is now somewhat acceptable in LF.

And given Wallace’s skill set (good hands and technique, but poor range), it sounds like he’ll be a fine 1B if slotted there.

No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.

by danmerqury on Nov 8, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The trouble is that there aren't 30 major league SS who are clearly better than

Pennington, and if the choice is to pay 3/$25M for Scutaro or 8/$60M for Chapman, I’d rather take a chance on the high upside guy.

I guess you can argue that Scutaro’s upside is 4 or 5 WAR but I’m more inclined to believe that he’s on the downside.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't see him being that expensive

He doesn’t have that kind of name recognition. I mean, what percentage of the populace thinks he’s better than Orlando Cabrera? 10, 20 percent?

I think he’ll end up being a bargain for whatever team signs him, and by and large bargains should be taken whenever possible. A bird in the hand is worth an enigmatic Cuban flameballer in the bush…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Um...walk off hits? Clutch?

The guy is a living legend, arguably the 2nd best hitter in baseball behind David Ortiz.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 8, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So, you're one of the 10 percent, then :p

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

only 3 players had at least 15 more walks than K's last year

the names? Pujols, Pedroia and………SCUTARO!

by PL78 on Nov 9, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How much do you think the opinion of the populace

affects what GMs are willing to pay a guy?

I mean, if 80% of the public thinks O-Cab is better than Scutaro, but 80% of GMs think Scutaro is better than O-Cab, wouldn’t the latter be more relevant to how much he’ll get paid?

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 8, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Depends.

I think a nickname like “Scooter” can go a long way.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 8, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the well-thought-out answer, NSJ.

I really appreciate it. A few stray comments:

It’s interesting that the A’s traded away Hannahan two weeks before the Holliday trade brought Wallace in. Did they already have their sights set on Wallace? Or had they already made up their mind that they would procure a better 3Bman somewhere?

I don’t think you really mean you want to block 1B prospects until they “literally” kick the door down. (Unless you intend to bring back Blanton and let him get stuck in the bathroom stall.)

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 8, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure Beane made the Hannahan trade because he liked Justin Souza as a prospect and it was Jack Hannahan

I don’t think there was any long-term master plan hidden there.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beane knew Hannahan was not the solution and was expendable,

so it didn’t matter whether they got rid of him then or waited until the end of the season. In this case, he sends Hannahan to Seattle as a favor to their GM, who really needed a 3B at the time. Not only did he get Souza in return, but also plants the seeds for a favor from Seattle later.

by LoneStranger on Nov 11, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, I really doubt that this is some kind of "favor"

GMs in a division rivalry do not do “favors” for each other.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 11, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's cool. You can doubt it.

We’ll probably never know. The good news about that is that I can still think it’s a favor!

Really though, if Beane was going to do a favor for Seattle, last year is a good example of a time to do it. The future was not compromised at all.

by LoneStranger on Nov 11, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Eeeh

In 138 regular-season games last between AA and AAA, Brett Wallace made only nine errors last year.

Errors? Really? The whole point of the defensive critique of Wallace is that he doesn’t have any range.

So the only issue really is his lateral range. And range at third base is probably less important than at any position except for first.

Garrett Atkins was 20 range runs below average in 2007. It might be less important than at some other positions, but making the jump from that to “and so it doesn’t matter” is wonky.

There’s no way they consciously targeted and acquired a player to fill a position they already have a glut at (first base, DH). No way.

How do you know they weren’t just taking the best player available? (Which he was. There’s little doubt about that, even as a first baseman or DH.) They certainly didn’t go out of their way to try to fill infield positions with the Haren or Swisher trades. Actually, that’s putting it way too mildly. There’s no evidence that “organizational need” played any role whatsoever in those trades. Or any of the other rebuilding trades, for that matter. They traded half a rotation and a star outfielder and got back exactly one prospect capable of playing 3B or SS.

For one, I’m pretty much acknowledging out of the gate that my offseason plan is projecting this to be a non-contention year for the A’s.

Oh, so you agree that it’s pointless to squander prospects’ service time on noncontending seasions when they’re not ready… wait, no, you seem to be saying the exact opposite. OK.

You can aging free agent first basemen on the scrap heap. You can sluggers without defensive value like (recent season examples) Cantu, Duncan, Branyan, etc. Third base isn’t like that.

You can damn well find awful-fielding 3B with 700 OPS’s on the scrap heap all right. Ty Wigginton got nontendered last offseason. Mike Hessman is still kicking around baseball, the last time I checked. I mean, forget signing a player who actually makes some small amount of sense, like Pedro Feliz (assuming he’s let go by the Phillies). There are just as many mediocre minor league 3B as any other position.

You still haven’t answered the primary question I posed the last time this topic came up, which is: On what grounds do you base your opinion that Wallace will develop significantly better in MLB than in AAA? Where is the evidence supporting this position? I see lots of wishcasting, but that’s it.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Chicks dig the lateral range at third base.

If NSJ is right that we here make a bigger deal about 3B range than most other teams do, I wonder how much of that is a result of having so many years of watching Chavvy make all those awesome plays. That’s definitely sexy baseball. How much it actually contributes to winning, I don’t know.

The latter question, it seems, is the main disagreement between you (Paul) and NSJ. You both agree that Wallace is fine at balls he reaches and you both agree that his range is weak. It sounds to me like you also agree that the defense Wallace has shown at AA and AAA is pretty much what he’s going to show in the majors, too. The difference, then, is simply that you consider it inadequate, due to the lack of range, and NSJ does not.

The same thing would explain why you like Beltre so much better than the other candidates. If you overvalue lateral range in a 3B — or, if you prefer, the community at large undervalues it — then it’s perfectly logical you’d want Beltre, who also has excellent range.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 8, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but the thing is, we can actually measure how many plays Adrian Beltre makes

and how many plays Garrett Atkins makes. The difference is quite large. Multiply that by the effect of missing balls (magnified at third because many balls missed by third basemen become doubles) and, well, the spread in values at third is insignificantly (if at all) different from that at most other positions.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can understand you accusing me of wishcasting...

but if you look at my post, I’m fully acknowledging that he could put up an OPS of .650 next year. He might not be successful.

But I also don’t think you can be certain that Brett Wallace is a -15 or -20 defender over there. It’s possible that your view of his defense might end up being overly cynical, once we get to see a full season of him over there.

Our high opinion of Beltre’s defense is based upon what he’s done in the past. Will he be an elite defender in his 30s? Will his bad shoulder or broken testicles come back to haunt him? I don’t know.

I do think it’s likely that Beltre’s defense will regress from its awesome peak over the next three years, between age 30-32. During the same time period, I think it’s likely that Brett Wallace’s will improve (23-26).

And since we’re all just pulling Brett Wallace’s defensive numbers out of our butt – because, let’s be honest, that’s what you’re doing in your above Garrett Atkins comparison, except that you’re just really good at making it look factual and authoritative – I’m going to wager that Wallace’s defense will be a -5 UZR if he sees full-time duty at the hot corner in ‘10, and that Beltre’s defense over the next three years will average +5 as he regresses slightly from his defensive peak.

I also fear that Beltre will struggle with injuries over those three years and have an unacceptable OBP.

I think the real wishcasting of my post is the unsupportable notion that the A’s will pony up $60M for Aroldis Chapman. I think the wishcasting of your reply is the notion that Adrian Beltre would seriously consider signing with the A’s at 3/27.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 8, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

lol...
And since we’re all just pulling Brett Wallace’s defensive numbers out of our butt – because, let’s be honest, that’s what you’re doing in your above Garrett Atkins comparison, except that you’re just really good at making it look factual and authoritative

PT is being irrevocably certain about something no one can be irrevocably certain about? nahhhh

Rec’d.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Nov 8, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah except its NSJ who is making numbers up here

why would Wallace be -5 and not -10 or -0? All that PT said was that the current most negative player in terms of range was 20 runs below average which is a number decidedly not pulled out of his ass.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This coming from the guy who came up with

defensive numbers for Josh Donaldson at 3B?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 8, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

First do you see me objecting to turning scouting reports into guess projections? No.

What I find to be ridiculous is the idea that NSJ can call PT out for making numbers up when PT isn’t and NSJ is.

Furthermore I really don’t think it is too much of a stretch to say that an excellent collegian defensive 3bman could turn into a MLB average 3bman, which is all I did.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 9, 2009 12:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Because -0 is unpossible, silly!

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 7:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you're going to accuse me of making stuff up,

there’s a convenient target located somewhat higher up on the thread.

But that one? Not so much. The only factual claims I made down here were that getting a -20 in range was very possible because Garrett Atkins has done it in recent memory, and that the A’s hadn’t really “traded for need” in the recent past.

Well, I guess saying that Pedro Feliz and some other bad third basemen are available is sort of a factual claim. I’m pretty comfortable with those ones, though.

BTW, if anyone had bothered to ask me what I thought before assuming that they could infer it by piecing together some snark from a few comments here and there, I’d have predicted about a -10. Which isn’t actually that far off from what NSJ has proffered.

Honestly, I think the real difference has a lot more to do with the fact that he believes that Wallace is a good hitter right now, and I don’t. A -10 is manageable if the guy is putting up an .800 OPS, but Wallace isn’t even close to that kind of skill level at this point. I hate to keep banging this drum, but… 680 MLE OPS this season. How much is he supposed to improve in five months off?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 12:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

his MLE...

Doesn’t give an accurate picture of where he’s at. MLEs can’t be individualized and don’t account for experience. It’s a limiting factor of the translation. Brett Wallace was one of the 20 youngest player in AAA and got off to a terrible start. However, he hit over .300 with very decent power once he adjusted (after June 1), three and a half months (wOBA in the .350s). How is he supposed to improve? He already did.

Not that I want to see him in Oakland until he can maintain a 10% BB rate for a reasonable length of time, but he’s closer to a good hitter right now than a bad one.

by AgitationStation on Nov 9, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why doesn't MLE give an accurate picture of where he's at, in the

same way that major league numbers give an accurate picture of where a player’s at?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re

Major league numbers typically don’t give an accurate picture of where a player is at on the up of the development curve. Look at how much Brett Anderson’s first couple months brought down his numbers. In the second half, once he adjusted to the level of competition, he was legit one of the best pitchers in baseball (backed every bit by his talent as well, not over his head). However, the final numbers don’t really reflect that.

by AgitationStation on Nov 10, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

His final tRA was among the top 10 in the AL

I’d say his final numbers do reflect his talent.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

5 star post

excellent points all round, im less worried about Wallace’s defense more than ever now.

by PL78 on Nov 9, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

'08 was a non-contention year. I'm hoping '10 won't be.

Also Cantu did play 3B for a semi-contending team. Otherwise I like your points a lot.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 8:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I also think that, like other high-profile Dominican free agents before him,

Adrian Beltre won’t want to be an Oakland Athletic, for all the reasons we always talk about. I refuse to get emotionally attached to him.

We’re going to have come in with the top offer by probably $10M or more to sign a coveted player this offseason. That’s how much players would rather play in LA, Florida, Texas, New York, or Boston than with the Oakland A’s.

With Aroldis Chapman, I think there’s a chance the A’s could submit a bit $10M higher than anyone and still get surplus value out of the deal, long-term. With Adrian Beltre, I don’t.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 8, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How many high profile Dominican FA's have we persued that lead you to that conclusion?

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 9:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 8:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beltre will be a Philly

No way he signs with the A’s or likely any AL team ever again.

by DrDoom on Nov 8, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed.

The stars are aligned for him to end up there…the Phils obviously value defense and play in a park that aids power hitters and have shown that they will tolerate a solid glove/power hitter that offers little in terms of OBP…perfect fit, in my opinion.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 9, 2009 9:15 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

If you were Beltre

Would you rather be paid handsomely by the NL Champion Philadelphia Phillies or by the last-in-the-AL West Oakland A’s?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 9, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Bingo.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate that fucking song

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 9, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely overrated.

I really like what you and Zoe did with the Sippy Cup song, though.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The subject matter begged for a duet

I’m glad we were able to get Zoe off the heroin long enough to finish the album.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 9, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

{slowly nodding}

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 9, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of riding the white horse....

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Nov 10, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is really offensive

I’m referring, of course, to the misspelling of “tattoos.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 10, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I knew you would see that!

“Kewl….!”

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Nov 10, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What I don't understand

is why that 60 year old hag is hanging out with that young punk rock guy!

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 11, 2009 1:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice write up

After a few weird ones, this one makes the most sense. I am a big fan of keeping it minimal this offseason, we are so stacked at so many positions there’s simply no need to go get that “veteran SP” or that “big bat”, we have Braden and Anderson who are acting like vets already and the big bats in Wallace and Carter are going to be here sooner than later, not to mention rebound years from Cust and Hairston.

Signing Chapman and Beltre are the only moves I see as being “must made” but even thats a soft term, we literally dont have to make a single move and yes, we can still contend in 2010 could be the year we let the kids play and surprise just like the Marlins do year in and year out.

However, after last year its evident Lew doesnt want to not compete if have the opportunity to do so, and is willing to open his wallet to do so. Beltre adds an excellent glove and good/solid bat and Wallace’s bat wont support his glove in the next 3 years.

by PL78 on Nov 6, 2009 12:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agree

Keep it simple

by Twan54321 on Nov 6, 2009 1:15 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh

The way it looks like the A’s are going to play the offseason is super unaggressive. Hardy and Iwamura were great deals, but the A’s didn’t make a move at either. And since they were two of the most obvious pickups, I doubt the A’s will be active with similar players. Maybe they’ll sign Glaus or Beltre, but only if it gets really late in the offseason and they’re still not signed. Maybe Beane has something up his sleeve (Yunel? Please?), but I’m very pessimistic.

It looks like the offseason will have very little excitement. And because of that, I can’t see the A’s competing until 2011 at the earliest and more likely 2012. By that time Anderson/Cahill will have 3 years service time and Kurt will be a FA. Oh yeah, and if Green doesn’t make it, we’ll have a black hole at SS. If Wallace doesn’t stick at 3b, we’ll have a black hole at 3b. It’s hard for me to get excited by the future if we’re in all likelihood looking at a team with major weaknesses, even in rosy projections. I’d be so much more optimistic if the A’s had gotten Hardy for Raj and a prospect.

If we’re playing the ultra-conservative way, at least lock up Anderson to a long term deal. That should be priority one. It makes sense for both team and player to sign a 6+option+option deal in this current offseason.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Nov 6, 2009 12:49 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

If had thought on this longer, I would’ve mentioned that extending Suzuki out to at least one free agent season (through his age 30 season, I believe), and exploring an extension for Anderson would’ve been a part of this fanpost as well.

How you feel about extending Suzuki probably hinges on how you feel about Josh Donaldson’s chances of sticking behind the plate. I’ve never seen him play, so take this with a giant grain of salt, but I’ve read everything that’s been posted about him here (which is a lot), and my guess is that he’s unlikely to ever be even a slightly-above-average defensive catcher at the major league level. As such, I don’t think he will ever be the A’s starting catcher – I think the team’s track record suggests that they place a huge emphasis on catcher D.

Suzuki will be a free agent at age 30(?) when Stassi is 22 years old. A lot can change between now and then, but I’d be very comfortable with the team extending Zooks into at least one of his free agent years and maybe two, to make that bridge to the next catcher (Stassi or someone else) less rushed. Obviously if the FA years on Suzuki’s extension could be team options, I’d be ecstatic.

I’m all for a Brett Anderson extension, too. Shoulder some additional risk to ensure that the team can afford him for a very long time if he does indeed fulfill his incredible potential. Five years with three team options on the back end, for $17M-ish in guaranteed money. It’s not a franchise killer if he gets hurt.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 6, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Why would Anderson accept that deal?

I see him making $17MM per year as a FA. Why take $17MM for 8 years?

by redtopcowboy on Nov 6, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To expand a bit

My real point is that our A’s are on the brink of bringing up several legit future-all-star home-grown talents. To lock up Anderson or Carter or Wallace or maybe Cahill for the long term, we are going to have to seriously pony up the cash in the next few years.

I am sick and tired of our A’s essentially being a farm team for the big market clubs.

This franchise is toast unless it finds a way to double its income so as to double its payroll.

Build a big new fancy expensive stadium somewhere quickly. I don’t care where. Just do it. I want to see Chris Carter hit his 500th home run as an Athletic.

by redtopcowboy on Nov 6, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

BUt they did lock up young talent

in 2007, with Swisher and Haren. Its just Beane felt that the 07-09 teams would not compete and he sold high on them. I think he was right, now maybe there will be another round o sigings. I don’t see it happening with pitchers for at least 2 years due to greater injury risk, but I can see if cater lights up the league in his first stint, he might get a longerdeal early.

by Future Ed on Nov 6, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

some owners have a high payroll without the baseball income

I believe when Wayne Huiz went shopping to build his 1997 WS champions at Florida, he didn’t begin by examining the Marlins’ cashflow, and work from there.

Same with Eddie DeBartolo and the SF 49er’s. He once remarked that he was glad he had a GM that cut guys and so cut costs, because he was such a softie that (if hypothetically, totally in charge) he would have kept on paying guys’ salaries, even when they were no longer on the team!

The Athletics simply need an owner like that guy spending all the money on the America’s Cup “wing” for his boat…sixty million, or one-sixty million…small diff!!

"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw

by One won lost won on Nov 9, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I seriously doubt this is true anymore

The money is just too big in professional sports to operate at a loss for any significant amount of time. It’s time to retire the antiquated notion of the pro sports team as a plaything for millionaires.

Wayne Huizenga is probably a bad example as well because I bet his reason for pumping money into the team was to improve the franchise value because he was planning to sell the team. Which is why he went into fire sale mode right after the title and sold the team a few years later. I bet any loss he took on that year was probably made back a couple of times over when he sold the team for much more than he paid for it. I absolutely believe he began his plan by examining the Marlins’ cashflow as well as other financial factors.

If you really believe that there is anyone out there with the capital to buy a professional franchise who is willing to operate at a loss for the sake of winning then you are living in the distant past.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 9, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

1994 is not too distant

1994 is when the NFL first adopted the salary cap, and I certainly don’t “live” in 1994 or any year beyond that.
Winners mean merchandising works. Losing means merchandising evaporates. The “sake of winning” has its eventual financial rewards, as you illustrated with the Huizenga narrative. Just narrowly seeking to operate “profitably” results in the Schott-Hofmann spiral, which even Lew Wolff cannot seemingly escape, even with a willingness to spend well-above the previous owners’ rate. Wolff is headed down toward decreasing attendance because the team on the field is losing, and as long as it is a loser, even a brand new, zero cost stadium will not mitigate the eventual return to a franchise losing money (see Nationals, Washington, and their new stadium).
Some franchises like the Chicago Cubs can make the owners financial “winners” over the long run, but it takes several generations of fans to create those special conditions. The Dodgers moved to LA in 1957-58, and their winning in LA created a multi-generational base. Oakland appeared to be heading along the same lines, but the horrific inability to effectively adapt to free agency in the 1970s destroyed a lot of momentum in building a multi-generational fanbase, and today we see a lot of the effect.

All in my opinion, without corroboration.

That said, even winning cannot create a TV contract like the YES network for the A’s.

"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw

by One won lost won on Nov 12, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I see anderson making $17M per year also

I also see the possibility of getting injured and making $0M.

Maybe $17 M is low, but remember what Duchscherer said when Yona was signed? He said he hadn’t made Ynoa bonus money in his career total. Now he is finally a free agent and hasn’t pitched anywhere in over a year.

by Future Ed on Nov 6, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Anderson would consider accepting that deal...

because it would be a record for a pitcher with only one year of service time.

The deal was $17M-ish over five years. That figure doesn’t include the three option years, because that money is not guaranteed. Those years would be at $10-plus million each.

For reference, if you go to Cot’s Contracts on the Rays team page and look at the extensions signed by Longoria and James Shields – both of which have three team option years attached – somewhere in that range is a good comp.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 6, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To be sure, those contracts have been routinely ridiculed as insanely team-friendly

That said, if it had to go to 20 or even 25 million, I wouldn’t balk.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 1:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One might want to keep in mind that

Anderson has already had an issue with a tight forearm and a back issue, and he’s not a physical specimen. Why are we assuming he’s going to be more like Jon Lester and less like Justin Duchscherer? Those two are both really good starting pitchers, but to which one would you offer a long-term, significant money deal?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 7, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The whole point of these arbitration-buyout contracts

is for the team, which has much more money than the individual player, to absorb the risk of injury (or the risk of sucking) in exchange for a significant discount in wages. The player is essentially buying an insurance policy on himself with his team.

Those contracts are, in the long run, favorable for teams to give out (in the same way that in the long run, your auto insurance company will make money even if you personally happen to total your car five times next year). Even health disasters like Bobby Crosby and Rich Harden were “worth it” at prevailing free-agent rates. It’s usually the case that a player has to suffer a career-ending injury to make those deals not worth granting. (Except if the deal is given out by Dave Dombrowski…)

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Donaldson.

I know this is going to fly in the face of some ANers around here who would like to see Donaldson stick behind the plate permanently and supplant Suzuki sooner rather than later, but I seem to come down on the same “unlikely to happen” side of the fence as you, NSJ on this issue. I think that it would be really interesting to continue playing Donaldson behind the plate for the majority of time in AAA next season, but also continue to give him regular reps at 3rd and 1st base to keep those skills sharp as well. Come 2011, the A’s could have a really nice super-infield-corner/catching/DH utility player at their disposal.

The A’s have already expressed interest in signing Kurt to a long-term deal, so I see that happening at some point either this off-season or sometime during the season (a la Swisher a few years back). He’s already an awesome defender behind the dish and if he can stabilize his OBP in the .340 range while continuing to slug .420 or so with 15+ homers, then he’d like settle into being a 3 WAR player at a premium position, which would make him well worth a $16-$20 million 4-year extension that buys him out of at least free agent year.

I’m as high on Stassi as anyone, but as you say, even if he makes it to the Show sometime in the next 4 years, he’ll still be in his early 20s and could benefit from having Suzuki around whenever he shows up…

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 6, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree.

In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.

by UncleLeo on Nov 6, 2009 6:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

all true

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 6, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The A's need to deal Donaldson elsewhere

Preferably to Tampa, which needs decent catching prospects and relief pitchers and has infielders to be obtained.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 1:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Donaldson fan and I agree.

I’ll bet DFA does too.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 7, 2009 4:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Nov 7, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Donaldson for Brignac?

who needs to add pieces?

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm working on it, dammit :p

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 12:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

something not worth a lot lansford/marshall etc

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 9, 2009 12:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

re Donaldson,

this is a good read, IMO. It probably has an element of spin, as it comes from inside the A’s organization, but it gave me more hope for Donaldson defensively.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 7, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't believe what it is someones self interest to say when it comes to scouting.

that article has more spin than Dead or Alive.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 9:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

right round like an mp3, baby

Do kids spin anything these days? Even CDs usually aren’t visible in their spinning.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 8, 2009 11:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's down to the wheel on the iPod now.

No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.

by danmerqury on Nov 9, 2009 12:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Like a record baby right round

we still play vinyl. well i don’t because it would bankrupt me so I download all fo my music but many friends do. CD tables spin the cd. but mostly its just my iphone or computer neither of which spin. But if i was to dj I would.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 9, 2009 12:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hard drives do.

And there’s your answer, iglew.

No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.

by danmerqury on Nov 9, 2009 1:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Right round like a hard drive, baby!

Hmm, I like the sound of that.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 9, 2009 1:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Electron spin, then?

No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.

by danmerqury on Nov 11, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Some of us already have

They’re effing awesome (if still pricey)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 11, 2009 2:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you use a touch or iphone youre there

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 11, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but that's different than using an SSD on your computer

All flash memory is SSD.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Nov 12, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kinda makes you wonder if Beane is currently on vacation

You talk about competing in 2011 (maybe) or 2012. The CBA expires after 2010, if the A’s have another sucky year and land at the bottom of attendence then could they run the risk of being contracted? Even if contraction isn’t coming, at what point does the losing permanently drive away the fan base. Last I checked there is no magical cash-cow stadium being built but the owners burned a lot of local bridges by looking elsewhere.

Can a team with (presumably) 4 consecutive losing seasons and an eagerness to move elsewhere remain a viable franchise?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 6, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yikes, there's a scary thought

The league would be better with 28 teams, IMO. But I sure hope it isn’t the A’s that get the axe.

The tough thing about contraction in baseball is that it would have to be two at a time.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 6, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A's crappy attendance aside

Isn’t baseball making money hand over fist? I’d be surprised to see contraction brought up.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 6, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What better bat for Selig to use against the Players' Union?

Maybe I’m just thinking dark thoughts, but after the last 3 effing years some brooding is warranted.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 6, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The difference between the A's and the Pirates/Nationals/Reds

is that while the A’s haven’t won recently — and they’ve been good a lot more recently than those 3 teams — they clearly have a bright immediate future. Why would you contract a team that has won 5 division titles this decade, and whose rivals are worried about for 2011, when you have the Pirates and the Nationals, for example, drawing no fans because, in part, they haven’t had a winning season anytime this decade and don’t look to be any good any time soon, and seem to have no plan?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 7, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anybody will get contracted

But when your talking about contraction I don’t think on the field success has much to do with the equation at the lower end of the standings. In fact, it may go against the A’s to say that even though they have been a much more successful franchise recently than these other teams they still struggle just as much financially. The Pirates and Nationals both have nice new stadiums and I believe the Reds park is fairly new and all are baseball only facilities.

The A’s are definitely not in the same circle of hell as those other franchises competitively but when it comes to financial viability I bet they are pretty low on the totem pole in the league’s eyes. That said, MLB in general seems to be doing pretty darn well as a whole so I don’t see the dreaded C word being used unless as a rather transparent threat against the players in negotiations.

by DiegoAsFan on Nov 7, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When contraction wes talked about before...

…Bud made it quite clear that on-the-field success was not a criteria. It was financial only.

That being said, I seriously doubt anybody is being contracted.

In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.

by UncleLeo on Nov 7, 2009 3:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Pirates and Red have new balparks... they are staying.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 8, 2009 9:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What are you on about here?

Suzuki isn’t a free agent until, assuming he remains in the bigs full-time, after the 2013 season.

Anderson and Cahill would be free agents after 2014, thanks to the inexcusably idiotic decision to start them in the big leagues this season. Cahill SHOULD be delayed to 2015 by being started in the minors next season until he proves he can actually strike a few AAA hitters out, though I have my doubts as to whether that will happen.

I’m also not sure what Hardy is supposed to mean in terms of a black hole at SS after 2011, when he would also be a free agent. If there was something to be gained from trading for him, it certainly wasn’t super-long-view optimism.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 12:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hm

My memory on Kurt’s service clock was wrong. True point.

Agreed on Cahill starting in minors.

Trading for Hardy would have given the A’s two options. Hardy gives them a two year window of not worrying about SS. If, after 2011, Green (or Coleman or whoever) is ready, they let him go. Otherwise, they already have connections with him about re-signing past 2011. The A’s instead will be going blindly with a sucky SS and hope that a prospect works out. If the prospects don’t, the A’s will be forced to turn to the FA market and will have no connections to any FA.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Nov 7, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They could always kick the tires on Scutaro, who they certainly do have connections with

Now, if they’re for some reason deeply committed to Pennington, that’s a different story. But they shouldn’t be. His proper role is as a Willie Bloomquist-type utility/PR/injury fill-in type at the infield positions.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 7, 2009 6:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you don't want to spend 3/$25M on Scutaro, they could trade for a defensive SS

like Clint Barmes or Mike Aviles. That would free up Pennington to be Willie Bloomquist. I can’t imagine either would be prohibitively costly in terms of players.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

cOCo cRISP?

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Nov 6, 2009 1:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Is there some kind of hidden message there?

Something about Orlando Cabrera and runners in scoring position?

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Nov 6, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I was thinking about Orange County and the Rhode Island State Police...

but those two obviously don’t go together, so now i’m REALLY confused…

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 6, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you forgot new mascot

this showed up on my Google News today:

Oakland Athletics to Host Mascot Naming Contest

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Nov 6, 2009 5:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I Like The

Aroldis Chapman idea. Would he come in right away and be in the rotation? Or would he need some more seasoning? I am not 100 percent up to date on him but isn’t Boston and the Yankees looking into signing him?

We cannot rely on either Chavez or Wallace in 2010 so we should go after a free agent this winter.If Chavez does come back healthy it would only be a bonus as we could use him as a top tier bench player, at 1st and at DH.

My ideal off-season

1. Sign Aroldis Chapman to a 6Y-80MD contract.

2. Sign OF- Jermaine Dye to a 1Y-7MD contract.

3. Re-sign INF- Adam Kennedy to a 1Y-2MD contract.

4. Trade Michael Wuertz for a prospect, most likely a middle infielder or outfielder.

5. Sign 3B- Adrian Beltre to a 1Y-6MD contract.

Lineup
1. LF- Rajai Davis
2. CF- Ryan Sweeney
3. C- Kurt Sazuki
4. RF- Jermaine Dye
5. DH- Jack Cust
6. 3B- Adrian Beltre
7. 2B- Mark Ellis
8. 1B- Daric Barton
9. SS- Cliff Pennington

Starters
1. Dallas Braden
2. Brett Anderson
3. Trevor Cahill
4. Aroldis Chapman (?)
5. Gio Gonzalez
    Vin Mazzarro

Relievers
1. Andrew Bailey
2. Joey Devine
3. Brad Zeigler
4. Jonathon Maleon
5. Brad Kilby®
6. Craig Breslow
    Gio Gonzalez
    Sam Demel®

Bench
C/1B/DH- Landon Powell
INF- Adam Kennedy
1B/3B/DH- Eric Chavez
OF- Scott Hairston
OF- Travis Buch
    

"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"

by nocal81 on Nov 7, 2009 11:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'd give odds of at least 2-1 that Scott Hairston is a better player than Jermaine Dye next season

Dye is so bad now it’s not even funny.

Actually, for a player with his profile in baseball, he’s had a shockingly mediocre career. We have to estimate for his early years, but I doubt he’s managed to reach 2 WAR a season for his career (that being league-average level). In his prime he was better than that, of course, but his prime left him 4 years ago and won’t come back no matter how many gift baskets and flowers he sends it.

This is a long way of saying that you could take whatever you’re paying him and use it on Beltre instead, which is good because there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that he’d sign here for that little. 1 year/13M sounds slightly more plausible…

To answer the question at the top, most people seem to think Chapman is not going to be immediately ready for the big leagues.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice ideas NSJ. I like the overall philosophy, and spending FA dollars on high upside guys

instead of Orlando Cabrera or Esteban Loaiza…or Mark Kotsay…or Jason Kendall…

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 8, 2009 10:14 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think they had the right idea with Cabrera

Hard to foresee that his defense would suddenly go from “among the best in the league” to “horrendous” in one offseason.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 8, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And the alternative was Crosby. 'Nuff said.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 8, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or Pennington

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Question

In a hypothetical situation, would Brett Wallace’s defense at 3b be better than Daric Barton’s defense at third base (assuming Barton is given the opportunity to work on that defense in the offseason).

Barton seems to be more athletic, and therefore possibly the better third basemen, even though apparently his defense is supposed to suck at third base as well.

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 8, 2009 3:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

didnt know dwight schrutte was on AN

"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow

by 9Custs on Nov 8, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Answer

No. I think Barton’s an error machine at third. I don’t think the team would’ve abandoned the experiment so quickly if they thought he had any chance of fixing that.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 8, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think I agree with your long post above

especially with the point that the A’s have been able to scout Brett Wallace in the minors for the past year at 3b.

Still, just seems odd that Barton couldn’t be better than Wallace, since Barton’s defense at 1b seems so solid and he seems like a decently athletic player.

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 8, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My only quibble with the analysis is that

I suspect the A’s went for “BHA” (best hitter available) and it happened to be someone who might play 3B, might play 1B, or might DH. I doubt the A’s were totally convinced Wallace can make it as a 3Bman so much as they were totally convinced he was the best hitter they could get.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 8, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, problem, meet mr. solution!

Emil Brown is a free agent!

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 8, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

{throws up in mouth a little}

{actually a lot}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 8, 2009 6:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On a serious note

would Randy Johnson be a bad guy to bring in (assuming he doesn’t retire)?

Think about it, he’s still got something left, can’t cost too much (i hope) and he’ll stay injury free just long enough to give one of our youngsters (Cahill, anyone?) time to acclimatize/work on things down in AAA before Johnson undoubtedly gets injured.

Of course, that he picked SF over Oakland probably means hes out of our realm, and I’m not exactly sure what he’d want in salary.

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 8, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

An unlimited supply of Vicodin?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 8, 2009 8:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well since he ate all the wheaties

I was thinkin’ Coco Crisp

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 8, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Expanding DFA's earlier trade proposal:

What do you guys think of:

Carl Crawford for Wuertz and Hairston or

Crawford and Brignac for Donaldson, Wuertz, and Hairston?

Rays get four major league cost-controlled years in exchange for Crawford’s one year, they improve their ’pen, they get cheaper, and they get a versatile OF to replace Crawford short-term until Jennings is ready, or to play with Jennings for two years if they eventually trade Upton, too.

The A’s once again have the best available offensive piece for sale at the deadline in ‘10, which they can flip for a very good prospect if/when they fall out of contention. They also benefit by getting an offensive player for ’10 who’s probably better all-around than any free agent they could sign, with apologies to Holliday.

I wouldn’t give up any of our top 6 SP’s for one year of Crawford…but if it can be done for Hairston, Wuertz, and Eveland or one of our fringe relievers (Gray/Kilby/H-Rod, I’d probably do it.

How would Crawford hit in our park? How incredible would our OF defense be with Sweeney/Davis/Crawford? Could we play with two of them out there and stand a second third baseman next to Wallace? What are you throughts on these trade ideas?

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 9, 2009 4:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

For my answer, or at least a partial version thereof, see the thread that will be posted in about 3 hours

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 9, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am excited for this. Thank you for working on it.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 9, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

twss

Ok, I had to.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I love the second one.

I’d probably do the first deal as well, but (as PT has stated) Tampa has approximately 13,857 infielders that they can trade – Wuertz’ value is probably the highest it will ever be, and parlaying that into a potential starting SS in Brignac as well as Crawford (who I love, albeit it’s because of MVP baseball 2005) would be a solid deal.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 9, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm...

Why?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 9, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm gonna say something dumb...

I wish the A’s had thirty farm teams and always had good rookies every year and traded almost everyone away before arbitration and won all the time for really really cheap.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 11, 2009 2:01 AM PST reply actions   0 recs


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