Athletics Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jeff Sullivan's MLB Trade Deadline Primer

2010 Offseason Blueprint 2.0

Drawing inspiration from my buddy Taj, who has come around on a few thoughts of his own...

Three weeks ago, I posted a projection of the A's offseason plans; this post is an update and hopefully an improvement upon that one.

Star-divide

Just like my last one, this post will be broken up into three sections: 

I. Roster Moves/Analysis  II.  25-Man Opening Day Roster  III.  Wrap-Up

This is not typical AN style, but I think it will make it easier to navigate. I'm also going to mostly avoid using full player names and team names, because AN 3.0 automatically creates a hyperlink for each player or team name, and I find that detracts from the actual hyperlinks that I want readers to click on.

I. Roster Moves

A.  Let Garciaparra, Kennedy, Crosby, Tomko, and Duke all leave in free agency. 

No change from the previous post, and I still think none of these guys will be back. 

B.  Outright/nontender Casilla, Denorfia, and Marshall. 

I was wrong here.  I think that if Marshall was going to be taken off the 40-man, it would've already happened, as it did with Denorfia.  He has options remaining and will clearly be sent to Sac next spring if he remains with the club.  Casilla is a different story, since his options are exhausted and he's in arbitration.  But he only made $420K this year, and might be willing to come back for a similar price.  If so, I think there's a decent chance he stays. I'm going to go forward with this exercise assuming that he'll be with the team at least until training camp, at which point the team could trade relievers if the opportunity arises.

C.  Protect FDLS, Carter, Lansford, Recker, Figuroa, and Wimberly from the Rule 5 draft by adding all six players to the 40-man roster prior to the November 20th deadline. 

Souza was added as well, which we hadn't accounted for.  After poring over this incredibly useful thread made by fellow ANer athleticsBB4life, I think Recker is probably the best available catcher in the Rule 5 draft, which concerns me some.  Then again, there are a slew of journeyman catchers available in free agency, and catchers rarely stick as Rule 5 picks, so even if Recker's selected there's a good chance he'll be returned anyway. Protecting Lanford never made sense, in hindsight. If he was added to the 40-man he'd burn through 3 options before he was ever even ready to contribute at the major league level. Wimberly could be picked by an NL team to be a super-utility/25th guy, but he probably hasn't hit well enough yet to justify receiving any ML at-bats.

D.  On December 10th, select Yohan Pino or Aneury Rodriguez in the Rule 5 Draft. 

After several hours of looking guys up, these are my two favorite players available in the Rule 5 Draft, with the obvious caveat that my opinion means nothing and that I haven't watched any of them play.  :)  Statistically, though, there's a lot to like about these two guys.  Let me try to sell you on their merits. 

Pino hails from Cleveland's farm system, which is about to get raided in the Rule 5 Draft.  Amazingly, the Tribe has roughly seven players who are legitimate candidates to be selected by other teams, even though they already added seven prospects to the 40-man roster on the November 20th deadline.  (Brief tangent:  this is the downside to selling off all your major-league assets and going into a full rebuild all at once.  One could argue that "consolidation" trades like the Holliday and Hairston deals are occasionally necessary, in order to free up roster space to protect lottery tickets like FDLS and Figuroa). Pino's appeal stems from his sparkling 4-to-1 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 563 minor-league innings over five seasons, including similar ratios last season in AAA.  He'll turn 26 this offseason.

Rodriguez is a bit further away, but also much younger, turning 22 this offseason.  Tampa Bay traded away Hammel to Colorado for him last March, after Hammel and Niemann's successful spring training performances left Tampa Bay with a glut of major-league ready starting pitchers.  Surprisingly, the Rays opted not to protect that investment this year, clearly gambling that Rodriguez is far enough away that no team will pick him.  I'm afraid their gamble won't pay off.  As a 21-year-old in the AA Southern League, Rodriguez allowed 122 hits in 142 innings with a K-to-walk ratio of 111-to-59.  In 588 minor-league innings, Rodriguez has struck out nearly a batter per inning with a k-to-walk ratio of 8-to-3.1. 

What Pino and Rodriguez have in common:  Quite a bit, actually.  Both are Latin-American born,  six foot-three inch, skinny, right handed starting pitching prospects with good control, good strikeout-to-walk ratios, and years of healthy full-season pitching in their pasts.  The main difference is the four years of age that separates them, and Pino being more ready for the leap to the big leagues than Rodriguez.  But I'm inferring from Rodriguez's success at younger ages that his upside is probably higher. 

My prediction is that one of those two guys is picked before the A's selection comes up in the Rule 5 draft.  I want the A's to pick the other one, and give him a shot to compete for the 5th starter slot in camp.  I do NOT want the A's to go their typical route and select a Rule 5er whose "upside" is LOOGY or platoon bat.  Simply not enough upside there to make it attractive, and they haven't been very successful at those types of picks anyway.

E.  Sign Shelley Duncan to a minor-league deal for ~$400K with an invite to Spring Training.

I'm already ecstatic about the A's first minor-league signing of the hot stove season, Dallas McPherson. I've pored over this entire list - over 500 names of minor-league free agents - and I can't find one player I'd be more excited to have than McPherson. But Duncan wasn't eligible for that list at the time; the Yanks outrighted him to AAA this week and he declared his free agency instead.

If Duncan, a right-handed hitting DH/1b/RF, were on that list of 500+ neglected minor leaguers, he would be my second-favorite name, right behind McPherson.  Like Cust three years ago, these are two players who have tremendous power and might be ready to finally put it together if they are given another opportunity at the major league level.  Here's the thing I love about rebuilding, low-budget teams acquiring guys like Duncan, Cust, and McPherson, rather than major-league free agents:  if they work out, as Cust did, the team has control over them at a league-minimum salary the following season, and through their arbitration years. After Cust's breakout '07, he would've commanded a few million on the open market, and perhaps even a multi-year deal.  Instead the A's were able to bring him back at a league-minimum salary in '08, because Cust had only two years of service time after his breakout '07.  Contrast that with Branyan's success in Seattle this year. Yes, he was terrific...but ultimately, he will either leave in free agency this offseason or cost them market value to bring back next year, and probably on a two-year deal.  The upside of acquiring Duncan or McPherson is that they might provide breakout, league-average performance at near the league minimum for multiple years of team control.

F.  Sign Cuban 19-year-old left-handed pitcher Noel Arguelles to a minor-league contract with a ~$10M bonus and/or deferred payments.

A few weeks ago, this bullet point was devoted to signing Aroldis Chapman, the biggest remaining fish on the international scene.  But seemingly everything I read about Chapman, outside of his raw potential, could be interpreted as negative: the recent firing of his agent, the maturity issues that are mentioned by multiple sources in any post about him, arguing with umpires at the WBC, the fact that he plays video games late into the night and wakes up at noon, and that he's never seen his newborn son that he had with his girlfriend, due to the timing of his defection.

Throwing $40-60M at him scares me, despite the tantalizing talent.  

Making a smaller commitment to Arguelles, however, is attractive for all the same reasons that Chapman offers.  Arguelles is 19, and projects as the second-best international free agent behind only Chapman.  He's been clocked at 94 and sits in the low-90s, while throwing four pitches with decent command.  He figures to be ready to contribute just as the A's are in the middle of their next contending wheel.  You can read up on Arguelles, including watching some video, here, here, and here.  The A's are apparently one of his top four prospective employers at this point.

I like that Arguelles is lower-profile than Chapman.  I like that he'll be able to struggle in the minor leagues like a normal minor leaguer, without having a major-league deal and major-league-level national scrutiny attached to him.  I also like that his price tag will be less than half of Chapman's, and that I've read none of the same maturity concerns.

G. Use one of the team's soon-to-expire (two years of service time remaining) major league league assets - Cust, Hairston, or Wuertz - and explore a trade with Chicago-AL for Brent Morel. 

I am paying homage to Taj here with Morel, as he was the first guy to mention the Sox 3b prospect in his fanpost a few weeks ago.  After looking through the top 20-25 prospects in every team's system, you realize just how unique Morel is.  He's a three-star third-base prospect with average tools across the board coming off a very good season in high-A, playing in an organization that is in "win-now" mode. He doesn't have the tools or skills yet to make him completely off-limits to other teams, and yet, he's got enough of a track record of success that we can squint into the future and see 2-3 more years of minor league success from him and an eventual league-average third-baseman. 

I only found one guy in the entire minor leagues who fit the criteria of that entire last paragraph, and it was Morel, who made 11 errors in a full season at third this year.

H. Promote Petit to be the backup middle infielder, opening up a starting shortstop slot for the four legitimate shortstop prospects in the A's minor league system:  Leyja (A), Green/Coleman (A+/AA), and Horton (AAA).  Leave Wallace, Carter, Cahill, Mazzaro, Buck, Cunningham, Cardenas, and 3 or 4 pretty good relievers in AAA to open the season, assuming the health of the soon-to-be-listed 25-man roster (below). 

I'd like to see Cunningham put up a full season of .900 OPS in AAA. I'd like for Buck to prove that he's better than what he did in AAA last year before handing him a job again. Same with Cahill and Mazarro.  None of them will like it, but perhaps the talent they'll be surrounded by will make it easier to swallow.  It's not the like the organization is "shafting" any one guy in the above scenario; it's simply an outstanding AAA team all around the diamond.  Probably one of the best AAA teams in history.  And they'll be playing in the best minor league park in baseball, with really good teammates, in front of 10K fans a night.  I don't really feel that sorry for these guys.

II. 25-Man Opening-Day Roster

Suzuki C
Barton 1b
Ellis 2b
Pennington SS
McPhavez 3b (added to the 40-man/active roster after Chavez goes down)
Hairston LF
Davis CF
Sweeney RF
Cust DH

Powell C-1b
Petit 3b-SS
Patterson LF-2b
Duncan 1b-RF (added to the 40-man roster after Outman moves back to the 60-day DL

SPs:  Braden, Anderson, Gonzalez, Pino/Rodriguez, Eveland (if they can beat out Mazzaro, Cahill, Mortensen, Simmons).

 

 

 

7 relievers:  Devine, Bailey, Ziegler, Wuertz, Meloan, Casilla(?) Kilby, Gray, Breslow, Blevins (in the rare chance that all ten are healthy, not traded away, and effective in spring, option three of them, and they'll inevitably shuttle up and down all year due to other injuries anyway).

III. Wrap-Up

I wrote about two pages worth of wrap-up in my first offseason projection here.  Much of the logic from that post remains the same in this one so I'm going to skip the philosophical stuff behind the decision to punt on the major league free agent class, giving opportunities for unheralded guys to establish themselves, etc.

The projected payroll of the above group, even with Arguelles' big bonus, is slightly less than $50M. 

Despite its bargain-basement price, I like that offense.  Lots of L/R flexibility, with the ability to create lineups with eight opposite-sided hitters against either a lefty or a righty.  Duncan takes on the role Cunningham would've had, facing LHPs, but he's more attractive, because he can also play first base.  That means that Duncan can spell Cust, Sweeney, or Barton if any of that trio struggles to hit lefties consistently.  He's also 30 years old, so unlike Cunningham, there's no concern whatsoever about putting him into a platoon role and stunting his future development. I've liked Duncan for years.  I think if he is given 450 at-bats in the AL he'll hit .250/.300/.500, with -5 defense at either first or right.

Petit plays a very competent shortstop, which a true utility infielder must be able to do.  (I'm just getting that obligatory sentence out of the way, since it's mentioned in every thread).  :)  The most obvious hole amongst the hitters is the lack of right-handed hitting third baseman to caddy for the injury-prone McPhavez.  I'm assuming Petit will get some at-bats there against left-handers, while providing plus defense at the position on the days he plays it.

The biggest woe of this team is the 4th and 5th starters.  I'm probably wishcasting to put Eveland and a Rule 5 pick (Rodriguez or Pino) in the last two slots of this team's rotation.  On the flip side, they play in a pitcher's park with a good defense behind them, particularly in the outfield, where the starting defense is outstanding.  They'll also be supported by the only group of seven above-average relievers in the league behind them.  There will definitely be days when the back-end SPs are pulled in the 4th or 5th innings, but hopefully the RPs can put out those early fires.  If the bullpen gets taxed in April/May, that's where the asset of having 10-11 major-league quality relievers comes in.  The A's could underutilize the top four relievers in Sacramento in April, knowing that they'll have healthy workloads in front of them in Oakland later in the year.

I think that's a .500ish team, banking on some healthy internal improvement. Most of the guys on this team are young enough that you'd expect an extra year to help their stats, rather than contribute to age-related decline.  If they fall out of contention early, which is very possible, they look to deal Wuertz, Hairston, and/or Cust.  If they surprise everyone and jump out of the gate in first place, they have some wonderful AAA pieces to eventually replace the probable weak links like McPherson, Duncan, Eveland, and the Rule 5 pick later in the season.

10 recs  |  Comment 218 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Around SB Nation

Game 90: Indians 4, Tigers 3

Jul 2010 from Let's Go Tribe! - 4 comments

Transactions: Branyan Traded

Jun 2010 from Let's Go Tribe! - 81 comments

Comments

Display:

I agree about Hariston and cosolidation trades.

A lot of short sighted scouts and sports writers said Beane gave up too much, but what they fail to grasp is that if the A’s hadn’t traded Italiano and Webb the A’s could have lost them for nothing in the rule 5 draft.

The Hariston trade was the right move, now Holliday on the other hand…

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Nov 29, 2009 12:32 PM PST reply actions  

Also Gallagher was hurt and had an injury history before that

yeah Hairston didn’t perform well, but really we gave up a bunch of spare parts.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I dont like trading Hairston........YET!

Apparently he was healthy for about 2 games in his time with the A’s last season. I believe the A’s should let him start the season in LF, hopefully he will have a better/healthier 1st half next year then he did 2nd half last year. Then trade him at the deadline when some guys are ready to come up to the bigs, and his value is a bit higher to playoff contenders that need a decent power bat.

There is some pretty good OF talent coming in the system (I exclude Carter as an OF at this point too) with Desme/Brown/Doolittle, and one should be ready for a promotion come the deadline. I’d be surprised if one of them does not break out at AAA next year.

But Im babbling…..

Bottom line, I would like to see Hairston recoup more value before hes traded sometime next season. Who knows who might get injured, and what team will need a good bat come the deadline, or at any point next year before the deadline. I would prefer teams come to Billy rather than Billy shop Hairston. That way Billy can swing him for more later……

"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 29, 2009 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone was talking about trading Hariston

The discussion was that a lot of scout/writers/fans didn’t like the trade FOR him because of the talent the A’s had to give up. All the time not noticing that if the A’s hadn’t given up Italiano and Webb for Hariston, there could have been a very real possibility they would have lost them in the rule 5 draft.

So really, the A’s traded an oft-injred, under-performing starting pitcher and two spots on the 40 man for Harriston

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Nov 29, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually the author was talking about possibly trading Hairston.......

as he states, “use one of the team’s soon-to-expire (two years of service time remaining) major league league assets – Cust, Hairston, or Wuertz – and explore a trade with Chicago-AL for Brent Morel.”

Then I saw your subject line, and decided to add my two cents regarding Hairston. I see though that you were talking about trading spare parts for him.

My whole point is that I think the A’s could get more than just spare parts for Hairston later in the season, as opposed to trading him now.

"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 29, 2009 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah, ok ok

Let’s compramise then.

What if we cut Harrison in half into two lesser prospects?

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Nov 30, 2009 6:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually, I think your Harrison is too small to be cut in half

(Remember, you’ve already cut Hairston in three to get to Hariston, Harriston and Harrison)

How small are they going to get? I mean, it’s just gonna get into this ridiculous Russian Doll situation – Have you met my Hairston? Have you met his little Harrison?

by elcroata on Dec 1, 2009 12:37 AM PST up reply actions  

We're splitting Hairstons here

I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.

by franks a lot on Dec 1, 2009 5:59 AM PST up reply actions  

There's already four of them that played big time ball...

I think Sam was probably the best of the family…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Like the Duncan suggestion...

He was never really given an opportunity w/ the NYY, because there wasn’t any room for him. He’s definitely a low-risk, high-reward type of signing. I would suggest Jake Fox of the Cubs as someone the A’s should attempt to acquire.

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Nov 29, 2009 12:40 PM PST reply actions  

with the added benefit that Fox can get by at 3B

in case McPharez goes down. Not as slick with the glove as Petit, but a heckuva lot more stick.

by cityplANner on Nov 29, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Can Fox actually pass at 3B?

He was pretty damn bad last year. He’s like a rich man’s Tom Everidge. He might be a little bit better with the glove at 3B and significantly but not overwhelmingly better with a bat, but I think he’s still basically a DH or 1B.

If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.

by NateHST on Nov 29, 2009 6:26 PM PST up reply actions  

A rich mans Tommy Everiidge?

Or is Tommy Everidge a poor mans Jake Fox?

"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 29, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I like Tommy Everidge...

I wish he were more talented…

I hope he has a good year next year in AAA or Japan or the Pirates or someone like that…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I can't comment on Duncan's ability to play in the OF

but, signing him would amuse me greatly. Didn’t he get in a fight with Jason Varitek? That’s gotta count for something, right?

I have a feeling that there are going to be some barren parts of next season, so perhaps he could be a spark to liven things up a bit.

See also, Josh Towers

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 29, 2009 12:41 PM PST reply actions  

Josh Towers livens things up all right

Problem is, he does it for the other team when he’s giving up home runs to them.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Pitch him at night at the colosseum ......

problem solved……

"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 29, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

If we're going dumpster-diving for outfielders, I prefer Jeff Fiorentino to Duncan

He should be a plus corner OF or a “tolerable minus” CF, and CHONE actually thinks he’ll be an above-average hitter next season. Plus, the A’s have already had a look at him in their organization.

There aren’t many potential steals among the minor league FA class outside of relief pitchers, but he’s one of them.

I agree about Arguelles being a great candidate with lower risk than Chapman, although he’s going to face some serious adjustment issues in the US too. All Cuban defectors do. Again, not saying don’t sign him. High profile IFAs are a good way to spend extra budget money in noncontending seasons.

I don’t really get why one would keep Patterson in the majors over Cunningham. I’m concerned about Cunningham’s bat stagnating from playing at the same level for too long, while Patterson is a geezer by prospect standards so I don’t care about “stagnation” there.

The solution to the 5th starter problem is fairly straightforward… it’s Justin Duchscherer. At the very least the A’s should offer him arbitration— if he accepts, terrific, if not, and he signs elsewhere, at least you got a draft pick out of it.

Finally, I know but nothing about Brent Morel, but I support trading for him on the “name sounds like a mushroom” principle.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2009 12:57 PM PST reply actions  

like Fiorentino as well, but Duncan brings the power element this team is missing

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Nov 29, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Isn't Patterson out of options if you don't keep him up?

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

yes

that’s the deciding factor for me in keeping him on the 25-man roster to open the season in this projection. Same with Eveland.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 29, 2009 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

OK, fair enough

Although I’m not sure that I wouldn’t rather sign Fiorentino and DFA Patterson. It would help if he actually had a CHONE projection to go off of. (Not sure how he didn’t get one…) But my gut tells me JeffF is the better player.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Did Patterson use an option in 2007?

I see his contract was purchased August 2007, and that he might have been optioned after Aug 12, and recalled on Sept 1. Isn’t there some rule that if he’s down for fewer

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 29, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

than 15 or 20 days or something, the option isn't used.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 29, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Some tricksy maneuvering took place, all right

He was called up August 6, optioned down August 14, and then called back up again September 1. That’s 18 days between the date of option and the date of recall.

So I think he has an option left. Though one can never be sure with these things until it’s confirmed with team brass. I don’t suppose Susan Slusser happens to be wandering around the thread by any chance?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Im pretty sure that he burned it if what happened is as you described it

he had more than 18 total days in the majors which is what matters.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2009 12:15 AM PST up reply actions  

No, it's not total days in the majors

It’s either total days in the minors (in which case he burnt it) or, more likely, total days on optional assignment (in which case he didn’t).

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2009 1:10 AM PST up reply actions  

This is right, from my understanding

If the player is on optional assignment for 20 or fewer days in a season, it doesn’t count as an option year.

Similarly, a player who is on optional assignment for 20 days or fewer in a season—and on the active roster for the remainder of the season—is credited with a full year of service time.

by Danny on Nov 30, 2009 7:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Patterson is out of options

Chicago optioned him back to AA on September 3rd, 2007 as punishment for lack of hustle… or something like that. But that’s when he burned his 1st option.

Link.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 30, 2009 7:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Not sure how I missed that

Well, actually, I sort of am. It’s so unexpected that a guy would be sent down in September, who would think to look for it?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Hmm, Fiorentino seems like a slightly better version of Denorfia.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Nov 29, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

If he is now what Denorfia appeared to be 3 years ago at the same age,

I’m fine with that. As long as he doesn’t blow out his elbow in spring training. :p

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Woo hoo!

Get me 9 fungis and I’ll give you an AL West crown!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 29, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Lets see.....

We’ve got Patterson, Buck, Everidge, McPhavez, Pennington, Raj, and Hairston. Thats 7 already!

"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha

by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 29, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Give me nine fungos

and I’ll give you a week’s worth of pop ups!

by Spass30 on Nov 29, 2009 8:16 PM PST up reply actions  

nine fungo bats...

nine fungoes is like… two minutes tops…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Well if we're going off CHONE then Duncan is the guy to target

His was easily the most surprising of the hitter projections. I do like Fiorentino though. Norfolk is a very difficult place to hit, so his 2009 numbers are quite impressive when placed in proper context.

Also, what are your thoughts on signing Duke and selecting Yohan Pino. I agree with the OP that Cleveland’s absurd minor league depth has made a few potentially very useful parts freely available, and Pino intrigues me the most of the bunch. If you throw out his 2008, when he was pitching hurt (link), he’s posted some very respectable MLE FIPs. Having both of them would also open up the possibility of giving Mazzaro the additional AAA seasoning he needs, and/or make a few bullpen arms expendable for areas of need.

by CapgrasDelusion on Nov 29, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I endorse the notion of bringing in more starting pitchers

They’re like toasters. You can never have too many of them.

Pino sounds like a Sonnanstine type, which isn’t great, but I’d rather have Andy Sonnanstine starting games for Oakland next season than Trevor Cahill, so what the hey. If there isn’t a good SS utility player available (and the best one might already be off the market (Tug Hulett)), I’d pop him with the first Rule 5 pick.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Until one falls in the bathtub
They’re like toasters. You can never have too many of them.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Nov 30, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Sonnanstine's available as a rule 5?

draft him!

If Duke doesn’t get any exorbitant offers from east coast clubs, sign him too!

I still hope Trevor Cahill has a great season next year and improves much, whether in Sac or Oakland, or most likely, both.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Fiorentino's an inspired suggestion

Good idea Paul. I was unaware of how successful he was in AAA in ’09.

In terms of how well the two players fit in Oakland in ‘10, however, I think I still prefer Duncan, because of Duncan’s ability to spell Barton, Cust, or Sweeney if any of that trio ends up struggling to hit lefties. Fiorentino’s status as a left-handed hitter and lack of 1b experience work against him there.

That said, I’d be excited if they signed both Fiorentino and Duncan to minor league deals.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 29, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions  

That said, I’d be excited if they signed both Fiorentino and Duncan to minor league deals.

I’ll second that, for sure. In fact, I wouldn’t mind giving one of them even a major league deal and outrighting Everidge; I cannot imagine that he would be subject to a waiver claim.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think signing both is possible

Sacramento’s cup is going to runneth over with 1B/OFs in 2010. Assuming one of either Buck or Cunningham is promoted to the bigs, that still leaves one of them, plus Brown, Doolittle, and Carter. You can sign one of those guys and dump Carson, but that’s it.

by Spass30 on Nov 29, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Rats

I knew it was too good to be true. Matt Spencer has to fit in somehow too. Then there’s Sulentic and Peterson and it’s like a 16-car pileup out there.

I think Buck’s probably going to get traded at some point though.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Ugh, forgot about Peterson

If he and/or Spencer pull ABs away from the aforementioned group of prospects, it would be truly a crime. Actually, I’m not disinclined to the idea of letting Peterson, Spencer, and Sulentic all return to Midland and see who can do the most work on their primary weakness – Spencer with plate discipline, Peterson with power, or Sulentic with, uh, both. If Doolittle, Carter, or whoever gets a June promotion to Oakland, then the best man going in AA gets a ticket to Sac.

I think you’re right about Buck getting traded, which would be a shame considering we’d be trading him at what is almost certainly his lowest value point. Not the first time that’s happened with Beane, or the second or the third…it’s one of his few flaws.

by Spass30 on Nov 29, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

not a big fan of Petit...

i think his roster spot, at this point, is more valuable than he is. I have a feeling that the backup at SS/2B will be playing quite a bit this season. Pennington – not sure what you’re gonna get with a full season. Ellis is only good for 110 games or so. I’d rather the A’s have a veteran type ready to step in.

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Nov 29, 2009 1:03 PM PST reply actions  

my thought is that Patterson will pick up those extra games at 2b

Scary thought, I know. :)

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Nov 29, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

well, at least when Patterson plays at second, there's never any worry of a wild throw going into the dugout

as, yknow. there’s no way it’d ever reach.

small mercies, and all that

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 29, 2009 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Man

I’m really intrigued by the idea of acquiring Morel, Arguelles, and especially Pino.

Pino looks like a guy who’s a good bet to be an average starter.

"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond

by hero66 on Nov 29, 2009 4:35 PM PST reply actions  

If Morel's top projection is as a league-average 3B,

I’m not down.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Your plan looks pretty good to me.

3B is still a big sinkhole, since McPherson might not be any healthier than Chavez, and Petit is a terrible hitter, but Morel looks like a good possibility and Wallace or Cardenas may be ready by July.

I have a feeling Cahill will make the rotation out of ST. He wasn’t good last year, but they seem to be unwavering in their support for him. I really like the idea of getting a 5th starter in Rule 5. I’m more worried about Mazzaro, just because he ended the year with an injury.

If they trade Hairston for Morel, that probably means Buck, Patterson or Cunningham in LF, which I guess is OK, but would be a weakness.

I don’t see that team as a .500 team though. The division is pretty tough. They’d be lucky to get back to 76 wins.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 29, 2009 6:18 PM PST reply actions  

No offense to Mr. Toad

but a Hairston for Morel swap would be incredibly favorable to Chicago. I could see moving Buck or Spencer for him if Chicago needs an outfielder.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I doubt Spencer would be enough. Goldstein called him a 3-star prospect and ranked him
  1. in the White Sox system. I have no idea whether Buck or Hairston would get it done either. A 3-star prospect is somebody in the 100-200 range I suppose. I’m not sure what that’s worth.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 30, 2009 3:09 AM PST up reply actions  

that should be #6 in the White Sox system.

My typing sucks today

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 30, 2009 3:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Just stupid SBN auto-format

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2009 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Define "valuable"

If by that you mean trade value, it’s clearly Cahill by a pretty large margin.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

How about WAAR

or “Wins Above A’s Replacement”, not to be confused with WAARP, or AARP.

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 30, 2009 7:45 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

BURRRRRRRRRRRRP

(Bobbys Under Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Pathetic.)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 30, 2009 8:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Cust at SS!

If there had been just one reference to a player whose name sounded like a mushroom, it would have been in the running for my favorite comment of all time.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 29, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, he sort of sounds like

this.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 29, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit drinking.

On the Weeks/Cardenas/Wallace glut, I have no problem making Cardenas the utility IF in the manner that the Angels use Maicer Izturis. Over the past 4 seasons, he’s piled up 1500+ PA as an approximately average major league hitter. He’s not a great SS, but he’s started 122 games there. Given the A’s health record, that’s a pretty valuable role.

If Wallace somehow surprises everyone and can fake 3B for 2-3 seasons, Cardenas could be a defensive replacement for him, an injury replacement for Ellis/Weeks, an offensive replacement for Pennington, and maybe even a base-running replacement for Cust/Carter/Catcher.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 29, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

This is very true.

Generally I think the idea of roster log-jam is non-existent, and that if said log-jam does raise its not-so-ugly head one should count s/himself lucky. Shanon Stewart and Emil Brown were both promised starting jobs despite essentially being 4th on the A’s OF depth chart, and it worked out for both of them. Carrying five starting IFers for four spots, or four starting OFers for three spots is not a problem, so long as a couple of these guys have some defensive versatility.

For this reason, I’m not opposed to the A’s picking up a cheap OF off the glut of available FAs towards the end of the offseason if someone like Burrell, Winn, or Byrd is available for a couple million. Although I like Shelley Duncan better than any of the FA options, mainly for the contract-control reasons that nsj mentioned.

And no, you didn’t pick the wrong day to stop drinking. This shit will make your skeleton feel like its made of rubber bands.

"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs

by Aufheben on Nov 29, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

that was supposed to say "unlucky," not "lucky"

"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs

by Aufheben on Nov 29, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Is it better or worse than Sparks?

I don’t drink a lot of caffeine, and the first time I had a Sparks I was tripping balls and wandering the streets all hours

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 29, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions  

That's so true...

If you’re used to caffeine, Sparks is just a little pick-me-up

but if you’re not, it’s kinda like eating a small quantity of shrooms…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

seriously - I got on BART, and there were lots of pictures of the target dogs

and the weird eyes were kinda pulsing at me.

Not. Fun.

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Dec 1, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

No, wait. I was right the first time... its "lucky."

I’m gonna stop posting now. I no longer understand…. something. It is much much worse than Sparks. I only drank this shit so I could lie to my dad about grad school. Are there any psychotherapists on AN?

"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs

by Aufheben on Nov 29, 2009 7:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, but they're all drunk.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 29, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Awesome.

Do they like to shoot pool? First round is on me.

"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs

by Aufheben on Nov 29, 2009 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, they like to

shoot pool ferrets.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 29, 2009 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

Love the airplane reference. I think that Cardenas projects better offensively than Weeks. He has outperformed him at a higher level and at a younger age. There was some talk about converting Weeks to CF which could solve that problem though.

by DeJay on Nov 30, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I too believe that Cardenas looks like the better offensive player.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I too picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue...

my purveyor of fine semi-legal exotic plants just told me he’s going to law school after he graduates this fall.

I can see him now in court… wearing some sort of sharkskin suit, with his dreadlocks hanging well below his ass…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Point 6

I don’t think the roster crunch you fear is imminent. Weeks will start 2010 in AA unless he goes bonkers in Spring Training. That puts Cardenas at 2B in Sac, with Wallace at 3B and Petit/Horton at SS. The A’s might have Cardenas play a little at SS but they seem to have moved past the idea that he’s a starting option. Oakland has also cooled off on the Cardenas-to-3B plan since the acquisition of Wallace.

In short, I don’t think there’s much cause to worry about Wallace getting rushed to Oakland because of a roster crunch in Sac.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 30, 2009 8:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I like this comment

the only minor quibble I would have is not having a backup SS. Without one, any "day-to-day injury to Penningotn has to result in an immediate 15 day DL. That would mean 15 days of Pettit in this scenario, regardless of when Pennington was ready. Pettit may not be the solution, but I think a servicable backup SS is still necessary.

by Future Ed on Nov 30, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Not if you kept Pennington on the active roster and sent someone else down.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 30, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

True

but then its 10 days without the optioned person.

I think it presents a similar, but not as tramatic problem.

by Future Ed on Nov 30, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm kinda tired of guys sitting on the bench for six or seven days

and then coming back at 90%.

I’d rather see guys DL’s and come back in 15 days at 95% or better if possible.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions  

DL'd...

(If I wanna see guys DL’s, I have to get myself in a queer mood and get drunk first)

(This reminds me of that one time at The Loading Dock… oh shit, I can’t tell most of this story, but the A’s-relevant part is that the guy next to me at the bar kept telling stories about when he was a 19 year old clubhouse assistant at the Coliseum during BillyBall days, and one of the pitchers became his “super secret special friend”)

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Aroldis Chapman plays video games

late into the night and wakes up at noon?

Wow, I’ll bet nobody on AN does that.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 29, 2009 10:45 PM PST reply actions  

That was a great line

I chuckled. It sounds like every college age kid I know.

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Nov 30, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm 40-something and I do that,

except that for me “video games” means something like Snood or Strategic Conquest, not all the fancy stuff that shows up in micdog’s DLD’s.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 30, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Crazy idea: Hideki Matsui

if he’ll come at 5 mm or so, would Beane bite? I doubt he’s going back to NYY, I doubt he can play any other position besides DH. He probably can’t go to Boston, Angels, Seattle, Texas….etc etc. I think Oakland is a decent fit for him, and would prove to be better value than Shelley or Cust (cry)

Oh, but if I catch a line drive by a girl, that’s girl-on-girl action, the twiceness is eliminated, and it just counts once - gigglingone

by closetasfan on Nov 30, 2009 6:24 AM PST reply actions  

I don't think he would be interested in playing for Geren,

after Giambi informs him of how much a “loser/ idiot” our skipper is…

by MMunoz33 on Nov 30, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

We could sign Hideki,

trade for Kaz Matsui and Ichiro and use Kurt for our “Asian A’s Express”, and maybe that will help sell tickets???

by MMunoz33 on Nov 30, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Aside from Ichiro, who is a rock star,

does having Japanese players real bring many Japanese fans to games?

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 30, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

More valuable for overseas merchandise and TV rights, methinks

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

and quite valuable at that...

Having Godzilla on the club means that quite a few A’s games would be on national Japanese TV in the mornings…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

My understanding

is that Hideki Matsui is still a pretty big seller in Japan, if not quite at Ichiro levels. There were stories about all the WS games being televised live in Japan so people could watch “Godzilla”. I will agree with PT’s comment that it is more about merchandise and TV rights overseas than filling seats in the stadium.

by el generico on Nov 30, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice post NSJ

Not as nice as the view I have this morning of the Sea of Cortez, but that’s all about perspective.

Anyways… a couple things to add to your post.

The A’s pick 10th in the Rule 5 draft, but only the Orioles (39) Mets (36) and Astros (36) currently have room on their 40 man rosters to select anyone. The Orioles have 21 pitchers on their 40 man so I doubt they’ll have much interest in either of your faves and the Mets are probably keeping their spots open to pursue FA plunder. Houston has 19 pitchers protected, but a move on one of your guys might make sense. Still, I think there’s an excellent chance that both Pino and Rodriguez could be available when the A’s pick.

Another thing to consider (and I only bring this up if the A’s could afford both Arguelles and the salary dump) the Reds won’t know what kind of payroll figure they’re looking at until later this month. There’s a chance that ownership might give Jockerty a mid-60’s payroll, meaning he’ll be forced to deal one of his big contract pitchers… Arroyo, Harang or Cordero. Harang and Arroyo have 1 year plus team controlled options remaining at $12.5 and $11 million respectively. There may be an opportunity for the A’s to land a quality SP at a low price (in terms of prospects) if they’re able to take on the salary.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 30, 2009 8:51 AM PST reply actions  

I'm down for Humboldt...

but having a Northwest League team in Arcata wouldn’t be all that profitable,

and besides, the Humboldt Crabs are the greatest summer amateur team on the West Coast. All home games… almost all doubleheaders… the park is full and the beer is cheap…

You have to return the foul balls, though…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

A's only have 39 as well

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Nov 30, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

IMO Cahill isn't going to open season in AAA!

I like the idea of signing Duncan, but I’m not sold on Petit as the backup IF, who seems like another Hannahan to me…

It seems like playoffs are a long shot with this squad and that means another season of growing pains and listening to Geren!

Someone should write a post about Geren and how he performed during his tenure as the A’s skipper and how he lead us during the “meltdown years”

by MMunoz33 on Nov 30, 2009 10:54 AM PST reply actions  

Nice job, NSJ.

Regarding Morel, I’m really intrigued by him. I’m wondering what the Sox would want for him. As you mentioned, they are in full-blown win-now mode and since KW and Beane partner-up in a lot of deals, I think there is probably a decent match to be made.

What about something like Patterson and Wuertz for Morel? I’m terrible at proposing trades that are equitable to both sides, but I’m just trying to think of where the Sox might need immediate help. I know Guillen always whines about wanting more speed, so maybe Patterson would appeal as a bench/platoon player at 2nd or the outfield who can pinch run for any of the slow-poke types in the Chicago lineup and provide some versatility while Wuertz can come in and help the set-up staff that is going to lose Dotel in free agency and might need some insurance in the event that Jenks continues to slip….is that too much for one 3B prospect? Maybe if Gray or Henry Rodriguez are substituted for Wuertz?

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Nov 30, 2009 12:00 PM PST reply actions  

Am I looking at the same Brent Morel?

Because I’m a bit perplexed at all the love he’s getting on this thread. I mean he looks like a pretty solid prospect and all, but I don’t see him as being so valuable that you would specifically target him as an offseason acquisition. I mean, what makes him a better prospect than, say, C.J. Retherford? The Sox clearly have a pretty nice assortment of minor league 3B, but they’re not the only team in that position; the Padres have arguably the most young talent at the hot corner. Prying Chase Headley loose probably wouldn’t be all that difficult.

The proper thing to do is to sit back and wait for KW to initiate talks about an A’s player he covets, then bring up names like Retheford and Morel. The onus should be placed on the Sox to put a good offer on the table for an established big leaguer like Wuertz; not vice-versa.

by CapgrasDelusion on Nov 30, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Well the basic problem here

is that Morel (Super Mario Bros. jokes notwithstanding) just isn’t that good a prospect. He’s a third rounder who’s done decently well in age-appropriate leagues since being drafted, but has some red flags (eg plate discipline), wasn’t paid over-slot and has no outstanding tools.

Giving up Wuertz for him is clearly too much. I’d trade Wuertz for one of St. Louis’s 3B prospects (Freese or Craig) but Morel doesn’t look on their level at this point.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd trade Wuertz for Brandon Wood

I don’t give a fuck about inter-division trading if it brings you a player like Wood. Freese looks like he is the front runner for the Cards 3B job and I’ve heard that Craig doesn’t project to stay at 3rd

by DeJay on Nov 30, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Well yeah

Brandon Wood is a former #3 overall prospect. He has about 150 career HRs in the minors despite being like 23 years old.

Comparing him to Morel is ridonkulous.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, this.

The Angels’ handling of him is absolutely ridiculous as well, and considering Scioscia’s love of Figgins, you have to think he could be had.

"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West

by Blicks on Dec 1, 2009 4:21 AM PST up reply actions  

So basically

You’re saying Morel is fungi-ble?

by Spass30 on Nov 30, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

You'd have to really mold him into a good player

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 30, 2009 7:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah...

Patterson+Wuertz for Morel is more than a little over-kill.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Nov 30, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Like all the interesting ideas presented by the author...

This is the type of writeup that might just get me to come back here and read more articles. Thanks to the author of this fine writeup.

Charlie Brown GO A'S WIN

by Charlie Brown on Nov 30, 2009 2:01 PM PST reply actions  

Here's an idea:

I’ll hold the football, and you come running up and kick it as hard as you can…

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 30, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

AAAAUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson

by UncleLeo on Dec 1, 2009 8:35 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm generally against inter-gender violence,

but Charlie needs to sock that b**ch a good one in the mouth…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Is linking to

“A Charlie Brown Kwanzaa”

a CGV?

I know it’s a NSFW.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

No doubt.

In fact, if Charlie Brown “went postal” on everybody in that neighborhood… except maybe Linus, he was cool… I wouldn’t blame him.

Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson

by UncleLeo on Dec 1, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree with all except

Eveland in the rotation. I’d vote for Nico in there instead… he’d likely pitch better

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

by cuppingmaster on Dec 1, 2009 2:05 AM PST reply actions  

Can we trade Eveland to Korea?

North Korea, maybe?

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  

I was thinking Cuba if we're going with communist nations

At least then he’ll come back three years younger and better.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

by cuppingmaster on Dec 1, 2009 1:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

(comedic snare roll followed by hi-hat closing)

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

dreadful, boring roster

Cahill at AAA and Eveland in Oakland — no thanks, no way. Another no power line-up with strike-out boy Cust as only HR hitter? Machavev no lock to produce. I can live with non-contender, but you are suggesting a very boring team.

by BlueMoon on Dec 1, 2009 6:57 AM PST reply actions  

Wow... I agreed with Trainman and BlueMoon in the same day...

now, all I have to do is find something to agree with from sosneakybutwhy and I’ll have the hat trick!

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 1, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Did you try the Spring Training thread?

I liked what he had to say about hiking in Arizona.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Dec 1, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Arguelles isn't boring

But yeah, there’s no Figgins, Beltre, Holliday or Scutaro. There’s no trade for Alex Gordon or even Mike Aviles. There isn’t even Jon Garland or Carl Pavano. I think nsj was trying to be realistic and economical — which for the A’s is usually the same thing.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 1, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Can't really argue

If the A’s are going to simply rebuild, this is how you do it. Like the Duncan/Fiorentino ideas and especially the Rule Vs.

Of course I’d recommend the A’s investigating a bunch of different names and their respective costs, but all the guys you suggest are worth investigating.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 1, 2009 10:53 AM PST reply actions  

Anderson and Cahill weren't supposed to make the opening day roster last year

I fully expect at least one surprise making the team this spring, whether it’s Carter, Wallace, Cardenas, Demel, etc. I’d think Wallace is the most likely candidate; he doesn’t have a whole lot left to prove in AAA.

"There are like 900 little wooden posts in the Jenga tower that is Jack Cust. So many to pull, so many ways for the whole debate to devolve into a pile of useless wooden blocks." ~ jeffro

by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 1, 2009 2:36 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

I would guess any suprises come from pitchers

But I don’t think there will be any surprises. That’s what will make them a surprise.

by Future Ed on Dec 1, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Ynoa!!111

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2009 5:21 PM PST up reply actions  

.680 MLE OPS

.680 MLE OPS
.680 MLE OPS
.680 MLE OPS
.680 MLE OPS
.680 MLE OPS

Not to mention proving that he actually knows how to play third base. He’s really not even close to an acceptable option right now.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think last years MLE tells the full story

He should theoretically be improved from his performance from last season. With some good off-season work and a strong spring training working with the A’s I don’t think it is all that unreasonable to think he could put up an above average offensive line. Combine that with below average defense and he could be an option for the big club.

Even if he is below average at the start of the season, the chance to work with the coaches and acclimate to big league pitching could get his skill level to above average.

by DiegoAsFan on Dec 1, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

There is no credible reason to believe that he will be above average next season

I mean, yes, it’s possible, but likely? Not hardly.

CHONE has him at 12 runs below average, and that’s not even a full season’s worth of playing time. Over a full season it’s more like 16. Combine that with a minus glove and his projection- that is what the system thinks his MEDIAN performance level is— is below replacement level.

If a guy doesn’t even have a projected 50% chance of scratching replacement level, I call that “not an acceptable option.”

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Oy

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Not saying it has to be Wallace specifically

I just expect at least one of the kids to play well enough this spring to make the roster. I don’t think that’s far out.

In addition, I got .704…albeit I was only looking at his Sacramento stats.

I got .734 for Carter. Maybe it’ll be him. I’m just saying I think one guy we don’t necessarily think is ready is going to make the team. Who knows.

"There are like 900 little wooden posts in the Jenga tower that is Jack Cust. So many to pull, so many ways for the whole debate to devolve into a pile of useless wooden blocks." ~ jeffro

by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 1, 2009 4:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I was reacting to the second sentence, not the first sentence

Although I don’t really agree with the first sentence either. There’s basically no one in the A’s minors who projects to be a better option than what they’ve already got among players who’ve exhausted their prospect eligibility. I mean, I suppose someone will probably be forced onto the team due to injury, but that’s not really “playing well enough this spring to make the roster.”

Then again, you do have track record on your side. Last year, idiotic wishcasting put Cahill and Anderson on the A’s roster and sunk the season while costing the team millions of future dollars, so maybe it will happen again.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2009 7:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I didn't think the team was a contender either, but I wouldn't call it "idiotic". Other

people did think the division was weak and there for the taking. Who knew Kendry Morales and Juan Rivera were actually awesome?

The damage done by trading for Holliday was basically trading Carlos for Wallace, which is bad but not catastrophic, and the difference in salary between Street and Holliday.

It’s not at all clear whether bringing up Cahill and Anderson was good or bad for the future. You’re balancing

1) the differential in their development in the majors vs the minors, which is unknowable,

2) the difference in costs in burning a year of service time (which is probably about $4-$5M for Anderson, and something less than that for Cahill),

3) the difference in revenues from their being on the team last year, which is probably not much,

and 4) the difference in their trade value now vs if they had been in the minors to start the year. For Cahill, it’s probably not much, although his value might have taken a real beating had he been hit hard in AAA. For Anderson, I would say his value is a lot higher than if he had been in the minors the whole season. If he had been in the minors for 2 months, his value would probably be similar to that of Thomas Hanson. I’d say that’s less than Anderson now, but YMMV.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 1, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions  

It wasn't idiotic because the team wasn't a contender

It was idiotic because they were promoted over pitchers who were pretty clearly better at pitching than they were at the time. Shit, Edgar Gonzalez was still better at pitching than Cahill even at the END of the season!

Similarly, the Holliday trade wasn’t idiotic because the team wasn’t a contender, it was idiotic because it was a comically massive overpay for a player who wasn’t that much better than the guys who could have been signed for money alone.

I don’t get where you’re getting $4-5M in cost for burning off a full year of Anderson’s time. If they behave logically and call him up in June, they basically pay him the same amount of salary as they otherwise would have, maybe a fraction more, and they keep him for an extra season and win (if he’s as good as he looks) probably 4 or 5 more games as a consequence. That’s a loss of more like $18-20M. It was an epically stupid move.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

This service time thing deserves a better thought out response than I can

make now. I’m kinda curious about the real cost myself.

Regarding Holliday, he was pretty clearly the best player available, and they got him. It’s true that he was a worse bargain than Abreu, but he was, and is, a better player.

I really don’t think Edgar Gonzalez was a better pitcher than Cahill in the 2nd half, but he probably wasn’t much worse.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 2, 2009 2:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Without turning this into another Holliday-trade thread,

which would be beating a dead horse if anything on earth ever counted as such, the A’s cannot afford to take “worse bargains to get better players.” That works for the Yankees. It does not work for a team that needs to squeeze out wins at BETTER than market rates to be even semi-competitive.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

This is another point that needs a more thoughtful answer

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 2, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I have a feeling that when they have spring training and practice and whatnot, they factor how well the players are playing physically into the equation a little more than CHONE. Not meaning for that to come off as a snarky comment; just saying that though Beane loves him some stats, young players are great because they are expected to IMPROVE. If Beane thinks Wallace will have a .704 OPS or whatever, then yeah, he probably won’t make the roster…but if Wallace tears the cover off the ball in spring training and plays a passable 3B, perhaps the argument could be made that he could be a .750/.800 OPS player this year, in which case he’d likely make the roster.

I wasn’t suggesting that it was a certainty that an unexpected player would make the opening day roster; merely a possibility.

"There are like 900 little wooden posts in the Jenga tower that is Jack Cust. So many to pull, so many ways for the whole debate to devolve into a pile of useless wooden blocks." ~ jeffro

by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 1, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Obviously he shouldn't make the team if he can't play 3B and they think he'll hit for a

.680 OPS. The hope is that he’ll improve from that level. I wouldn’t say he’s not close to acceptable option. He may be their best option. I’m hoping they acquire someone else, but right now, I’d go with him.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 1, 2009 6:02 PM PST up reply actions  

My question would be, how accurate do MLEs tend to be

for players of comparable age and experience (in this case, limited AAA, 2 minor league seasons total)? Are they generally “dead on” or are they often close and often way off?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Predicting a next-year's performance from MLE

is about as effective as predicting a next-year’s performance from this year’s production in MLB. If it’s less effective, it’s only very slightly so.

Obviously there are better tailored projection systems like CHONE, but as I pointed out above, Wallace doesn’t exactly shine on those systems either.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Why not just get a minor league free agent to be replacement level

instead of having Wallace be replacement level, and save the service time?

Actually, they already did that (Dallas McPherson)…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2009 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Well McPherson might not actually be able to take the field.

I still think they’ll make a trade for a 3B.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 1, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Brandon Inge!

He’s this off-season’s Nicrusade.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Allen Craig is deeply hurt.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 2, 2009 2:22 AM PST up reply actions  

You know, if it's a "Nicrusade"

and not just a Nico crusade, then you really ought to call him “Brandonge”.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Dec 2, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions  

plus

there is the way that “Brandonge” rolls off the tongue

by colin on Dec 2, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Is it bran-dunge?

Or bran-dawnge? Bran-dong works as well.

No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.

by danmerqury on Dec 2, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I pronounce it like it is a French word

and I think that’s what you were going for with bran-dawnge, right?

by colin on Dec 2, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I had the inspiration in the DLD, but I'll toss it out here as well

What about picking up Xavier Nady instead of Shelley Duncan? Pretty much the same skill set, but better defense and a proven track record. How far along is he in recovery? He went down right at the start of the season, so he may be ready to go by late spring training/april.

by cityplANner on Dec 1, 2009 3:04 PM PST reply actions  

The better defense is only true if he's healthy. He'll also probably be more expensive, but if

he’s the same price, why not?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 1, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd pick him up for a higher price if it's reasonable

Duncan could be had for a half-mill or less and minor league contract. But with the market heavily saturated with similar players, a guy like Nady might fall to a 1-2 million deal. I’d snatch that up in a second.

Pending health, of course.

by cityplANner on Dec 1, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

So Placido Polanco apparently wasn't offered arbitration

Over the last four years he was paid $4.6M a year while being worth more than double that.

I’ll just put this in as simple of terms as possible: The A’s need to and should sign Placido Polanco.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2009 8:04 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I agree with that

He kills us.

And is a non strikout machine and a good defender. What is not to like?

by Trainman on Dec 1, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the "he kills the A's" attribute.

Other players who have killed the A’s recently: Bobby Crosby and Dana Eveland.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2009 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Nate Schierholtz!

oh Lordy

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Dec 1, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions  

and play him where?

His bat isn’t very attractive at 3rd.

by cityplANner on Dec 1, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Third base and second base have the same positional adjustment...

The notion of third basemen as being somehow more akin to first basemen than middle infielders went out the window pretty much as soon as people developed plausible defensive stats.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2009 11:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Can he play shortstop?

If yes, I’m definitely on board with this idea. If no, I’m not sure.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Dec 1, 2009 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Now that would be interesting

Add Polanco and Glaus and you may not have the best defensive left side but you have a damn good offensive one. And considering the suckitude there offensively AND defensively the last few years, I would heartily welcome that.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 1, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions  

No

but they wouldn’t be signing him to play shortstop or to be a utility player, they’d be signing him to start at third base, or possibly second if Ellis isn’t brought back in 2011.

He might have to be moved to a utility role in a dream world where both Cardenas and Weeks are strong starting infielders by 2011, but realistically that’s just not happening. Or I suppose Ellis might have a monster bounce-back 2010 to get his option exercised, but if so the A’s could probably trade one of the two.

Basically I don’t see any real roster conflict unless the A’s are super-duper lucky with their prospects panning out.

Signing a backup SS would still probably be a necessity.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I kinda like the idea of Polanco on a one year deal. I guess I could even see 2 years.

I also think he could play SS in a pinch. Beane sounded like he wanted to get a young 3B though, with a stopgap like Polanco only Plan B.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 2, 2009 2:25 AM PST up reply actions  

He's not a "stopgap"

He’s a quality frontline starting player for a contending team. The A’s have the opportunity to get him for a discount rate.

I mean, if he’s willing to play third consistently, I’d have no hesitation whatsoever giving him a 3 year deal. By the end of that he’s likely to be more of a liability than a help at the position, but frankly so are the other options right now, with Cardenas maybe excepted if his D at third is up to par. But he’s potentially needed to fill the impending gap at second. I don’t trust Weeks at all to stay healthy and even if he does, he could be moved to the outfield.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Polanco till 13

informs the Ellis option at the end of 2010.

by Future Ed on Dec 2, 2009 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Well since Callaspo sounded like Plan A, maybe Polanco is Plan B

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 2, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

What do you make of his age?

He’s 34 this year. Not exactly a spring chicken.

by eastbayexpat on Dec 2, 2009 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but he doesn't really have a game that lends itself to a quick fade

He’s a smooth defender and a defensive hitter who strikes out very rarely. I suppose his hand-eye coordination could go, but usually those guys seem to last a decent amount of time. Look at Ichiro— he’s barely slowed down into his late 30s.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions  

He's also one of the biggest contact hitting freaks of this generation.

I get what you’re saying though.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Dec 2, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

So is Placido Polanco...

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2009 11:08 PM PST up reply actions  

He's also a Phillie

Phuck.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Dec 3, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I gotcha

I suppose I find myself wondering if his decline in BABIP actually meant something this year as opposed to being a fluke

by eastbayexpat on Dec 3, 2009 5:04 AM PST up reply actions  

+1

Polanco is looking very nice to me.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 1, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions  

and he can play 3b

This was my idea earlier.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Dec 2, 2009 1:11 AM PST up reply actions  

MLBTR just posted a story

that we tried to trade w/ the Royals for Callapso, but it fell through, with the idea that he’d play 3rd.

Not too bad, as he’s another flexible player you could move around the infield. Man, we’re gonna end up with like 6 guys with infield positional flexibility over the next 2-3 seasons.

by cityplANner on Dec 1, 2009 9:21 PM PST reply actions  

I like Callaspo

He’s actually a lot like Polanco, for better and worse.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not big on wife beaters though. Egg beaters neither.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 2, 2009 2:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Collapse-o nicely describes both the A’s offense and their alleged 3B the last 5 years

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2009 11:24 PM PST up reply actions  

When the A's announced in 2007 that they were rebuilding,

I didn’t realize they just meant Chavez.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 2, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

notsellingonesies

"There are like 900 little wooden posts in the Jenga tower that is Jack Cust. So many to pull, so many ways for the whole debate to devolve into a pile of useless wooden blocks." ~ jeffro

by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 1, 2009 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Congratulations!

GO TO SLEEP. NOW.

Oh and tell mom: When the baby sleeps, Mrs Jeans sleeps. Do not negotiate this. Do not let her do stuff around the house because “she has time cause the baby is asleep”

I’m sure people have already told you guys all this though.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Dec 1, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

notsellingjeanshorts?

Congrats!

No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.

by danmerqury on Dec 1, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Congrats

“Future notsellingjeans.”

by Future Ed on Dec 1, 2009 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Congrats NSJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is always on topic.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 2, 2009 2:26 AM PST up reply actions  

imagine how many cost controlled years do you get with that kind of player!

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Dec 2, 2009 5:25 AM PST up reply actions  

ps congrats!

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Dec 2, 2009 5:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I had forgotten about my Rule V pick for Beane

Chris “Disco” Hayes. It’s gonna happen…book it.

"There are like 900 little wooden posts in the Jenga tower that is Jack Cust. So many to pull, so many ways for the whole debate to devolve into a pile of useless wooden blocks." ~ jeffro

by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 1, 2009 10:01 PM PST reply actions  

DISCO

http://discohayes.mlblogs.com/

"There are like 900 little wooden posts in the Jenga tower that is Jack Cust. So many to pull, so many ways for the whole debate to devolve into a pile of useless wooden blocks." ~ jeffro

by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 1, 2009 10:03 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I actually posted the link before reading the first post

This guy is BAD ASS. We MUST draft him in the Rule V draft. And move him to 1B when a lefty comes up. :P

"There are like 900 little wooden posts in the Jenga tower that is Jack Cust. So many to pull, so many ways for the whole debate to devolve into a pile of useless wooden blocks." ~ jeffro

by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 1, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that first post is completely, entirely, wholly awesome.

By the way, you know why his his name is Disco? It’s cause he throws in the 70’s.

Read his blog bio. It’s awesome.

No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.

by danmerqury on Dec 1, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Everyone should read this.

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

by LongLiveLangerhans on Dec 2, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

This guy is awesome. I hope we take him.

"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes

by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 2, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Disco Hayes is awesome, and

I wish we had him in our system … but are you really going to keep him on the 25-man roster all year? I don’t think so.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Dec 3, 2009 2:30 AM PST up reply actions  

If he gets people out in the majors as effectively as he has in the minors...

…yes.

"She's kinda got cankles, our kids are gonna have to play soccer." ~ Mrs. "Disco" Hayes

by Player To Be Named Later on Dec 3, 2009 8:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Any chance...

…that Rodriguez is the PTBNL in the Shoppach deal?

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 1, 2009 10:37 PM PST reply actions  

Dubious

The Indians need pitching, not position players. I suppose they could use him as the starter at third and trade Peralta, but that would be selling super-duper low on him.

I think it will ultimately end up being Jake McGee, but we’ll see within a few weeks.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2009 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh sorry

I meant Aneury Rodriguez, not Sean Rodriguez, as NSJ was suggesting we rule V that Rodriguez.

McGee seems like a lot for Shoppach. He really struggled last year and I assume that Santana will take over some time next year.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 2, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Trading an impending Rule 5 player for a 2-3 WAR catcher would be a bizarrely insane win for the Rays

and a complete failure of logic for the Indians (who could of course just get Rodriguez through, you know, Rule 5, WITHOUT giving up a quality starter in the process).

I grant you, the Indians have basically been complete pushovers in their rebuilding trades so far, but surely they have to at least get SOME real value for giving up a guy who was 3.6 WAR just a season ago.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd assume it's someone eligible for Rule V.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 2, 2009 2:27 AM PST up reply actions  

can we get more clutch, please?

Thanks for the in-depth analysis of next year’s Oakland A’s.

Two comments on your opening day roster (and fans’ responses to it).

1. Why are people already suggesting we trade Scott Hairston? He doesn’t demand a huge contract, plays a good LF (better than Holliday imo), has speed on bases if healthy, and most of all, he can HIT THE BALL. Sure we can talk all day about prospects who might be able to hit when they mature, but Hairston is the closest we have to a clutch hitter now.
And isn’t clutch hitting the A’s biggest weakness in the last several years?
If healthy, I’d love to see them sign Hairston to an extended contract.

2. Daric Barton at 1B? Seems the A’s have already given him a shot at 1B the last few seasons, with not very impressive results. If we’re going the cheap route and not upgrading our 1B with free agency, I’d like to see Tommy Everidge get another shot or Chris Carter.

by charm3x on Dec 3, 2009 12:54 PM PST reply actions  

.236/.262/.391 for a .653 OPS isn't really hitting the ball.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Dec 3, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

No, clutch hitting is not the A's biggest weakness

Hitting is the A’s biggest weakness. As in, hitting at any point in a baseball game.

Hairston’s useful, but hardly worth a contract extension. Take advantage of what you get from him in the next couple years, then have him move on and hopefully score a draft pick for it. Nothing wrong with that. Or trade him if someone offers a good deal for him.

Everidge is so much worse than Barton it’s not even funny.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

agreed, but...

The A’s offense isn’t actually that horrible. They have a great supporting cast but are lacking big run producers. Kurt Suzuki was among the best offensive catchers last year. Ellis was above average at 2B. If Pennington can continue what he did in Aug-Sep, he’ll be at least an average-hitting SS. Rajai the same for center. And Sweeney’s future looks promising as well. But these guys will be more relaxed (and more productive) at the plate if not expected to be our big bats. And if not Hairston, who do you see driving in runs on a consistent basis?

Even in these losing seasons, the A’s are getting guys on base, just not getting them home. And nobody wants to see us lose so many 1-run games again.

As for 1B… At his best, I’ve seen Barton hit some solo home runs in non-pressure situations, so I’m not sure how anybody could be so much worse offensively. Everidge only had a short stint in the majors, but he was involved in a couple ninth inning comebacks for the A’s, which got our announcers calling him “Mr. Ninth Inning” for awhile. — I’m not saying he’s the solution, but I am more inclined to judge a player by their actual contribution to the team as opposed to their perceived potential. If Barton has a strong April/May in 2010, then great! Keep him at 1B. But how long should the A’s give him a chance to prove himself at a position that’s deep with heavy hitters?

by charm3x on Dec 3, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Potential is FAR more important than "actual contributions" of a player until he's played like three full seasons in the bigs

Barton has the potential to hit .300/.400/.450 in his prime with good 1B defense. Everidge… I mean, he might match the .450 in a dream world, but he’s never going to have above-average OBP. And he has a stone glove to boot.

As for Hairston, I didn’t suggest dumping him or something, just that he’s not some kind of integral cog in the machine.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Dec 3, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

on other teams that's true, but with the A's...

How many great offensive players do the A’s keep after a few years? Can we really afford to be so patient?

I agree with the principle that you need to give young players a chance to grow, but Oakland keeps trading talent NOW for lots of possible talent LATER. It seems our best chance of success is catching lightning in a bottle – getting lucky with an Adam Kennedy, a Frank Thomas (2006 version), or a starter-turned-premiere-closer who wins the AL ROY.

Back to the OP, glad to see an interest in Shelley Duncan at 1B or OF. My friends who are Yankee fans are seriously bummed about losing Duncan. They guy’s a free swinger who needs more plate discipline, but power-wise has a lot of upside. They also say he’s a great guy in the clubhouse with a positive attitude that rallies the team. He had a sorta cult following in NY after only a short stay.

[BTW, Thanks for your replies, PT. I lack the baseball knowledge of you and other AN-ers (seriously need to brush up on my math skills to comprehend some of these articles), and browsing the forums of other teams confirms my belief that A’s fans are like no others.]

by charm3x on Dec 3, 2009 5:32 PM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Oakland Athletics.

Community Guidelines ANcillary Terms
Start posting about the Athletics »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

08-_the_author_small
DLD 7/29/10: Floats, Anyone?
Tsgirlbass_th_small
DLD 7/28/2010: MLBlinology
Img_1848_small
Exploring an Andrew Bailey-for-Jesus Montero trade
Tsgirlbass_th_small
For those going to be extras in "Moneyball"....
Baseball_small
AN interviews Mike Piazza

Recent FanPosts

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_small
What Do iglew, jeffro, and Craig Breslow Have In Common?
Small
Minor Athletics 7/19-7/27 (Part I)
Nx74205_small
August GOGpicker
Whyoffry180_small
Michael Choice Signs For $2MM Bonus
Images_small
Who Should The A's Sign To Big-Time Contracts?
Zuke_small
AN Day 8/21?
Small
Trading Relievers

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS

SBNation.com Recent Stories

HOUSTON - JULY 24:  Pitcher Roy Oswalt #44 of the Houston Astros throws against the Cincinnati Reds in the first inning at Minute Maid Park on July 24 2010 in Houston Texas.  (Photo by Bob Levey/Getty Images) +13 updates

Done Deal: Roy Oswalt Traded To Phillies, Will Make Debut Friday Night In Washington

WASHINGTON - JULY 29:  Adam Dunn #44 of the Washington Nationals watches the game against the Atlanta Braves at Nationals Park on July 29 2010 in Washington DC.  (Photo by Greg Fiume/Getty Images)

MLB Trade Deadline: Where Does Your Team Stand As Saturday Approaches?

Florida Marlins' Jorge Cantu watches his double against the Colorado Rockies in the first inning of a baseball game in Miami, Wednesday, July 21, 2010. Dan Uggla scored on the double. The Marlins won 5-2. (AP Photo/Alan Diaz) +2 updates

Marlins Trade Jorge Cantu To Rangers For Pitchers Evan Reed, Omar Poveda

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Maya_papi_small Tyler Bleszinski

Green_small iglew

08-_the_author_small 67MARQUEZ

Whyoffry180_small danmerqury

Logo_small gigglingone

Baseball_small baseballgirl

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_small Nico

Venasfans_small OaklandSi

A_s_pic_5 emperor nobody

Editors

As_kings_cal_small louismg

902484_big_small Leopold Bloom

Authors

Myeyebrowpose_small jeffro

Moderators

Countdown_small Taj Adib

Img_1848_small notsellingjeans

Small vignette17