First Base: A Glut With No Players
by Nico on Nov 28, 2009 10:27 AM PST
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PrintImagine playing "musical chairs" at a party, where the music stops and there's an empty chair but nobody standing looking for a place to sit. That's more like the "musical chairs" problem the A's could find themselves with at the one position commonly thought to be over-crowded: 1B.
Brett Wallace? That's the guy who has never actually played over at 1B, the guy who continues to play at the position the A's really need a solution. Sure, he could move over to 1B at some point and stay there, but that's a bit different from saying he's adding to a glut. That's kind of like hearing that someone is from Michigan and replying, "Really? I have a brother who's from Wisconsin."
Speaking of my brother, he and his family had a turkey for Thanksgiving again this year. And as usual, they ate lobster. You see, each year my brother (I'm the normal one), his wife, and their three kids, adopt a foster-turkey -- which is different from a Foster Farms turkey in that these turkeys are neither frozen nor deceased. Tom, as this year's guest of honor was called, was very much alive, trotting around the house while somewhere upstream in Philadelphia a lobster went, "Aw man, really?" to a skilled fisherman. However, as my brother projects to be no more than an average 1Bman, he will no longer be part of this conversation.
Chris Carter? Well, in contrast to Wallace 1B is exactly where Carter has been playing but it seems pretty widely agreed that it's one position where he won't stick. In other words, Wallace hasn't yet proven he can't stick at 3B and hasn't shown he can play 1B, but Carter has shown what he can't do at 1B and it's a lot. LF seems like a good bet, and DH appears to be in Carter's future ahead of "happy 30th birthday, Chris!" 1B, on the other hand, is looking less for Carter like a position he'll play long-term, and more like a place he has stood near for far too long.
Sean Doolittle? Here's a guy who finally has the right combination of "plays the position well" and "might hit big league pitching." However, he now has multiple strikes against his making it as a major league 1Bman. Generally healthy, Doolittle suffered a rather significant knee injury last season, one that could impact him into this year. So before we worry about where he'll play and how well he'll play, we need to wait to see when he can play and whether he can come back at 100%. Then he has to be good enough for the big leagues -- which was never a certainty, just a hope. And then 1B has to be where he lands, and it's not where he was primarily playing at the time he lost a knee.
Speaking of which, I'm thinking of starting a knee replacement company. I'm going to call it the Knee Co. (pronounced "NEE-koh") and...well, honestly that's as far as I've gotten.
All of which brings us back to Daric Barton. A guy who didn't take at catcher, couldn't handle 3B, but has found 1B much to his liking -- so much so that he singles a lot, but then so did Hatteberg -- and now stands as an incumbent who is still young, can field the position well, and was always touted for his hitting.
Could 9 Daric Bartons outscore the 1927 Yankees, or would they just fall off, one by one, into a shallow pool in some Synchonized Swimming nightmare? I don't know. But right now Barton is more than the best 1Bman the A's have. He might actually be the only one.
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If none of these options is viable......
then what about trading for the remaining two years of Adam Dunn’s contract? Barton, HRod /JGray, Simmons, for Dunn. I know it’s not fair money wise but what the hell? At least you have yourself a guy that mashes and you still have two years to figure out the 1st base conundrum. Go A’s!
{waits for the “Adam Dunn sucks” mob to arrive….}
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Adam Dunn, 2009: 1.2 WAR
Daric Barton, 2009: 0.7 WAR
Play Barton a full season and he’s actually more valuable than Dunn at 1B, especially for $10M less.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I'm starting to come aboard on this WAR
since it seems to place some value on actual worth. and in this economy…
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Theres no hope for Crosby anywhere
even wrapped in bacon and smothered in special sauce.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
WAR
What is it good for?
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Nov 28, 2009 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
Absolutely nothing.
Say it again.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Nov 28, 2009 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
What????
Dunn .267 38HR 105 RBI in 2009
Barton career in 678 AB’s .249 16 HR 79 RBI
Barton is more valuable. To the opposing team!
by fansince1980 on Nov 28, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
"And now on to the BOTTOM of the 1st..."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No one's disputing that Dunn's better with the bat.
But Dunn was so unbelievably bad with the glove last year that he really wasn’t all that valuable of a player.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
yeah but if he's playing the place with the least defensive value, 1B,
the damage will be much less than the metrics make them out to be.
1B defense = who the eff cares.
Nope
It’s that bad.
The only way to limit the damage Dunn does is to cashier his glove completely and restrict him to DH and PH duty. There is no other position at which he will not cost you more runs.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
A run allowed is a run allowed.
It doesn’t matter where on the diamond it occurs. Of course, the damage he’s doing is lessened by playing 1B, but even at that “easy” position, he’s costing his team an unacceptable amount of runs.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
Unfortunately, we're not playing fantasy baseball.
Guys have to actually take the field.
Well, Dunn shouldn’t, but he does.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Well that WAR factors in his atrocious defense.
He’d be an awesome DH.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
And I see I've been beaten to the point.
By miles.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Adam Dunn is no more a Major League Baseball first baseman than I am
He’s a DH. Period.
The A’s have no difficulty filling THAT position.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
We have an entire AAA team ready for it
and an incumbent we don’t seem to mind losing. Honestly I would not miss Cust at all if we got rid of him, but I will still root for him to succeed elsewhere. Kinda like Matt Stairs. Actually I lie, kinda like someone way less scrappy than Matt Stairs.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
i dont think
a move to first base will cure his liking to lots and lots of surgeries. i have a feeling he won’t wanna play anywhere other than 3rd and maybe dh
Daric Barton
I’m fine with him being the first baseman in 2010. I think we should give him a chance over the course of a full season to see what he can do. If he doesn’t perform, however, I think this is the final straw.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Nov 28, 2009 10:58 AM PST reply actions
It just seems upsetting to me
that at only age 24 were already halfway to putting him out to pasture. Something about that just doesn’t sit right with me.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Didn't he already have a full season?
Two seasons ago he had nearly a full season, and it was pretty historicaly bad. If you are going to be the “next Mark Grace” you need to hit for average and play good defense to justify your lack of power. In fairness, Barton’s defefense has markedly improved, but his ability to hit for average has never translated to the big leagues. Young player with old player skills. He may Ben Grieve himself out of baseball.
I say put Powell at first base, or get a stop gap like Troy Glaus. Why can’t Cust play first base. You would think with his skill set (or lack there of) he would try to learn the position.
By the time a fly ball gets to Cust in RF, he still seems surprised.
I doubt this would translate well to playing 1B.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah, he'd still be surprised when he realized the ball is in RF.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
I say put him at SS
I mean, he’s going to suck defensively no matter where he is, so at least let’s have a 25HR SS and one less hole to fill on the left side of the infield. 111
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Cust at 1B
Just because 1B is the easiest defensive position doesn’t mean every defensive klutz can do it. The main reason 1B is accessible to some players who can’t play any other position well is that it doesn’t require a guy to move very far. But it still requires a certain amount of nimbleness and the ability to catch balls. My recollection of Cust in the outfield is that his main deficiency is not an inability to move very far, but rather an inability to catch a ball that’s within reach. Playing 1B would just give him more opportunities to muff a ball coming right at him.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
heh heh, heh heh
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I'm pretty sure he hit .270 with a .370 OBP last year
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
It was one fucking season
Why do people crucify him for 1 season? I don’t get it. Especially one when he was unlucky, at least according to BABIP.
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
Know what's hilarious though?
The people who want Trevor Cahill to be the #3 starter next year.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
What the crap will the rotation be anyway?
Brett Anderson…
Dallas Braden…
a crap load of walks…
Repeat.
I have hopes for Gio.
He’s great when he’s on. Terrible when he’s not. The hope is that he’ll somehow learn to be on more often.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
In which case if he can't make it as a pitcher,
at least he’ll make a helluva kitchen light.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If he could make it as a Giodesic dome
the light would be more consistent than if it were placed above a kitchen sink….
I am struggling with my puns today.
"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs
I like the Metro as well
But I think a lot of people have put way more expectation that is due. He has not really shown great control at any point. Though, I was a believer in Gio when I was sitting in Penn Station watching him dominate the Yankees last July.
I actually think he and Cahill will make a decent back end of a rotation within the next two seasons. My big question mark is really on two other guys… Mazzaro and Braden. As in, can Vinny throw strikes cause he is as filthy as all get out when he does? And, is Braden really a major league starter in the long haul?
Curveball lefties can make or break your team
Gio could fall anywhere on the spectrum from 2001 Barry Zito to 2007 Rich Hill to, um, 2008 Rich Hill.
That being said, I think he’s (overall) a somewhat better prospect than Mazzaro and Cahill. Ultimately I believe he’ll settle in and become a quality SP.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
On what are you basing you belief that Gio will settle?
Personally, I can’t see enough evidence that’d push me one way or another, aside from the hope of a general maturing. Is it more than that?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Pretty much my sentiments
Gio has had trouble throwing strikes, but has also struck out a lot of batters.This seems to be his pattern through the minors as well. He could go either way as far as I see it.
Cahill is the same in my mind. He has more than a strike out an inning over his minor league career. His issue last year was being in Oakland when he should have been in Sacramento.
We shall see how it all plays out next season.
Whether you want to call it luck or lack of composure or whatever,
he’s seemed kinda prone to the big inning so far in his MLB career. (Career LOB% (strand rate) of only 64.7%.) Dallas Braden had similar issues early in his career and ultimately, whether it was regression to the mean or just reduction in nervousness (I suppose a mechanical fix to the stretch might also impact this), he was able to fix the problem.
His HR/FB rate is also outrageously high for his career.
I think both of those are fixable problems and areas where pitchers tend to improve as they gain more experience.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
A 4.42 tRA* as a 22 year old rookie in a 1/2 season isn't bad
True, the range of outcomes is large, but there is lots of reason for optimism.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 29, 2009 4:29 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah... I hope you're right.
As I say, I wouldn’t charactorize myself as optimistic or pessimistic on him – at this stage, I feel that just about anything could happen, from unquestioned superstar to, well, learning to play the outfield. ok, maybe not that one.
I’d even go so far as to say this season may still not tell us one way or another – I feel like he could have another couple of seasons of inconsistancy, of brilliance mixed with meltdowns.
Let’s hope it all comes right, though
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
+1
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Nov 28, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
I love how people refuse to believe Cahill will ever be any good, or will improve
oh geez a rushed prospect had a bad year whoda thunk it?
and yet, in the same breath, Barton sucks and should be cast aside
at the ripe old age of 23.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
normally he wouldnt need to be
but Chris Carter, Sean Dolittle and Brett Wallace all exist. And their bats hit HR’s, Barton’s doesnt.
Wallace plays 3rd
Doolittle was hurt all year (and is apparently also a good outfielder)
Carter is already talked about as a DH only and is trying to learn left field.
and hey, remember when we had Hatte still and this super awesome 1B prospect that we got when we traded Mulder, and he was the next big thing at first???
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
thats wishcasting though
Id KILL to have your above scenario become true, but the odds are we are going to need 1B open for one of those guys. Dolittle plays the OF, true, but where do you put Carter + Sweeney? Having Barton at 1B gives us no positional flexibility, we are essentially locked in with:
1B: Barton
2B: Ellis—>Cardenas
SS: Pennington
3B: Wallace
C: Suzuki
LF: Dolittle
CF: Davis
RF: Sweeney
DH: Carter
And the team has already made noise about not starting Wallace or Carter in the bigs as a DH….so where does that leave Dolittle? Or Cust+Hairston for that matter? These are problems that are right there for us, we dont have 3 years to wait on Carter+Wallace, those dudes are essentially ready-now.
Barton not being in the organization will allow us the ability to move Wallace/Carter/Dolittle/Donaldson around, I have no idea why youre so concerned with keeping Barton here to the detriment of 4 near blue chip (2 blue chips and 2 who are thereabouts) prospects. If Barton was a 3B/SS Id have absolutely no problem keeping him, his bat will eventually come around. Im also a fan of making him our opening day 1B in 2010, but midyear and beyond Id look into dealing him for rotation help. Blocking guys who have higher ceilings than him isnt smart.
You're trying to create logjams
But you’re using shitty players to do it. By the time all 3 of Carter, Wallace, and Doolittle are MLB ready, Cust and Hairston will be gone and then you’re left with this:
Barton 1B, Carter LF, Sweeney CF, Doolittle RF, Wallace 3B.
Of course, this is assuming they ALL pan out, and it’s seriously starting to irk me that everybody is just going to pencil in Doolittle as a blue chip prospect ready to push Barton out of a job when he’s less advanced than Barton was, nevermind the fact that he just missed a whole fucking year due to injury.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
But I don't want this old toy any more.
I want whatever it if you’re hiding in your other hand.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
well I personally like Dolittle a lot...
…I dont think “everybody” rates him as highly as I do though.
Its funny, if Barton had missed all of 08 with injury we would all be backing him hard to be at 1B. That year was just so so miserable to watch and we all remember it too well, he’s going to have to really mash in 2010 to get us to forget it.
Wait, so you're unsatisfied with Barton at first,
and you want to play riskier, worse players instead? I’m not sure I follow this logic.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 28, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
Older
You forgot older. He wants to replace “old player skills” with guys who are actually just old.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
When people talk about old player skills,
they’re talking about guys declining in their early 30s.
It’s a good thing when guys who are 24 have old player skills… as long as you haven’t signed them to a 10-year contract or something…
Also, the statement that Barton’s 2008 was “historically bad” is frankly an insult to history. He posted a season that was just slightly above replacement level. Jason Giambi’s 2009, to take merely a particularly psychologically “available” one of what have to be 38429 different examples throughout MLB history, was worse.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I'm definitely not up on any recent research on this
but I do remember Bill James hypothesizing back in the 1980s that young players with “old player skills” (low BA, good BB, good HR, low SB, left side of the defensive spectrum) tend to lose their productivity earlier than more typical young players of equal quality. His original example, IIRC, was Tom Brunansky.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Thome would fall into this category and has been good into his late 30s
D. Ortiz is still good (it turns out). I wonder if it isn’t so much that those players tend to lose productivity early more than others do, so much as when they lose hitting ability they have lost their only ability, whereas other guys can still help on defense, or steal bases, if their hitting goes first.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ortiz
isn’t all that old, and he sure looked like he was starting to lose it last year. Thome is a good example, though I guess you could have a “HOF-talent” exception for any guideline like this. It would be more useful for someone like, say, Pat Burrell, maybe.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I guess my point is, if Burrell loses a little speed will we notice or care?
Whereas if he loses a little hitting ability, it might be a bigger problem.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not that it matters
but his BA was .270 last year.
Really, people. Daric Barton is not as bad as you all think he is.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Barton? I thought we were talking about Dunn!
Dunn is like a poster child for “old player skills”. Barton really isn’t — especially since he doesn’t K much or hit that many HRs.
I like Barton, and I’m fine with him having the job next year. I do think we have to remember that he has a track record of being a streaky hitter, and of starting the season off slowly (he’s done this in his last 2 AAA seasons, as well as in his 1 full season in the majors). So we just have to stay away from the panic button.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
He also provides a decent player at a position other than 3B or SS,
and the A’s need to focus on the left-side of the infield, rather than fretting about whether Barton is “good” or “ok.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Staying away from the panic button...
…is of course an AN specialty!
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Nov 28, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
did you take defense out of the equation though?
Im so sick of hearing about how great Barton’s glove is at a non-premium defensive spot as our team offense continues to flounder and we let an underachieving bat play at the big hitter’s spot.
Barton’s offensive season from a 1B in 2008, was extremely bad. Giambi’s 09 was indeed better. Barton’s young and was rushed ala Cahill (who was also extremely bad in 09) so he deserves another chance, but with the glut of players we have who can (and NEED) to be at 1B, make Barton perfectly expendible, which is a shame, because he’s going to be a pretty good hitter when he’s 28.
Why would you take defense out of the equation?
That’s like only counting a home run if it was hit to right field.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
Did I TAKE DEFENSE OUT OF THE EQUATION?
No. I also did not take hitting out of the equation. I also did not judge the players by how famous they were, how many steroids they took five years ago, whose hair looks better, or any other bizarre, made-up, and/or irrelevant criteria. I did not engage in cherrypicking or artificially limit my data sample to make my side of the argument appear credible.
Got any other sleazy, intellectually bankrupt things to ask me if I did NOT do?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
lol @ "intellectually bankrupt"
so its not within your means to give an answer to the question of “how good a HITTER is player A?” Youd think something like “He’s got good defense, so he’s valuable” right? That sounds like a politician ignoring the question. Barton was indeed historically bad at hitting while playing 1B in 2008. Defense isnt really in the equation when talking about 1B.
You might want to stop saying,
“defense isn’t really in the equation when talking about 1B” because it’s just not true. Defense may be more important at SS than at 1B, but it’s hardly irrelevant at 1B. If it were, Adam Dunn would be a better player, Jack Cust would be a lot more valuable, and Chris Carter would have a brighter future.
Defense is important at 1B, just not as important as it is up the middle.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah, that's flat out false.
Defense is absolutely in the equation at 1B. Ask Nationals fans how they feel everytime Adam Dunn fails to snare a ball that would have prevented a run. Like Nico says, Adam Dunn would do a hell of a lot more damage at SS, but you can’t just ignore 1B defense, especially if you’re as bad as Dunn is.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
Last time I checked, they had a position where players didn't play defense
[looks it up]
Oh, right, it’s the designated hitter position.
It turns out— you might not have known this previously— that players designated “first basemen” actually do, in fact, tend to stand on the field near first base, and occasionally baseballs happen to be hit somewhere in their vicinity, and the good ones like Albert Pujols and Daric Barton happen to pick up a lot of those balls and turn them into “outs,” while the bad ones like Adam Dunn and Jason Giambi let a lot of them go by them for things like “doubles” and “triples.” Surprisingly, this means that their teams allow more “runs” to score, which (because baseball is this weird game where the team with more runs wins) means their teams lose more games than they would if they had certain other people standing near first base a lot of the time.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
You had to look that up?
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
It's in
Bill James’ Baseball Concrete.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't know what's worse
PL78 saying that 1B defense doesn’t matter, or PaulThomas having to look up the existence of the DH.
Nico’s nonsensical joke is a distant 3rd. I think all the recent turkey secks™ has blunted his funny bone, so he gets a pass.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
hold on hold on
“defense isnt really in the equation when talking about 1B” = “1B defense is absolutely irrelevant”??? Since when do those words equal each other? Oh weight, its just another an old fashioned AN inmature gang up, i get it.
You guys are really twisting my words here. And it sucks. PT’s smarmy, clearly obvious post is based off said twisted word, thus making me look bad. You guys need to really not be doing shit like this. You should apologize…
Back on track, I like the way defensive win shares are weighted, it shows how little value 1B defense has, and how important catcher defense is.
wait weight wait weight
as you all can plainly see, i do good enough job in making myself look bad on my own :)
Those two statements look exactly identical to me
If something is relevant, it is in the equation for WAR (well, except non-SB baserunning— not sure why they haven’t gotten it together to add that yet, but anyone can feel free to add it manually, regardless). Good analysts do not deliberately leave relevant factors out of the equation. Saying someone should leave a factor out is saying that factor is absolutely irrelevant.
The statement “1B defense isn’t in the equation” is nothing more nor less than an assertion that it is so de minimis that it’s a waste of time even to consider it. And that is— simply— wrong. It’s not “twisting your words.” It’s what you said. The person “twisting words”, if anyone, is you, in trying to unearth some nonexistent distinction between the two.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
again, youre posting something I didnt write
never once did i say "1B defense isn’t in the equation".
I used a qualifyer of “not really in the equation” in terms of overall player value because it does exist, yet its value isnt of extreme importance when taking into consideration how the player helps (or in Bartons 08 case) hurts the team offensively. This is where we differ, apparently. I weight defense as being crucially important at the positions of C, SS, CF & 3B, and its less important than at the other positions, 1B being the least important. Now, you could not be a dick (what a revelation!) and not post some ultra-sarcastic post based off an edited in line my post and instead argue why 1B is important to you, or do what you did, make a really lame and sarcastic post.
AN is just brutal at times like these, cant we just talk actual baseball without being crude? How about asking someone to verify their position if its unclear to you first? Is that so effing hard?
We ask all the time
and you rarely do it, and at the same time ignore it when the position that proves you wrong is verified.
So, I’ll ask: What’s the point?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
But if "1B defense is not really in the equation,"
then what should cause us to think you believe it is important?
For example, when trying to solve x+2y=6 and x-y=3, I consider z to be quite unimportant because it’s not really in the equation. x, on the other hand, is important to me. But then again, it’s in the equations I’m trying to solve so it’s really not that surprising.
By the way, x=4 and y=1. Not just in the equations I used as examples. Always. Now you can solve Algebra, easily!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You asked if I took it out of the equation
and then said it “isn’t really in the equation.”
If you can somehow extract from those two statements the proposition that the speaker believes that 1B defense has any impact whatsoever, you should consider going to law school yourself. Only in the most narrowly technical sense imaginable is the first line of this post true.
I could have not been sarcastic, but that would increase the likelihood of future posters saying things like “did you remove [important factor of analysis] from the equation?” again, so… nah.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
i agree fully
This an era where if a guy is not a major league hitter by age 22 or 23, he is a bust. Carlos Pena was a bust to many fans after a month and look at what he blossomed into. Hell Ryan Howard did not come up as a 22 year old. He spent years devloping in the minors. Give these young players some time.
"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."-Bill Hicks
by Man Bear Pig on Nov 28, 2009 4:38 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
How many years (and organizations) did it take Pena to blossom?
Seems way more patient than any single team can afford.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
Actually, Pena's stats are amazingly good for a player who kept getting dump-traded and/or released
He’s only ever had one season where he had a below-average OPS+, and that was in 37 plate appearances for Boston in 2006. (He did perform poorly for Oakland in the partial season when he was here in 2002, but made up for it with good performance for Detroit.)
I mean, he wasn’t a megastar with the Tigers or anything, but he was consistently a league-average 1B man. I have no idea why they cut him loose.
For a variety of reasons, Carlos Pena is a very poor comparison to Daric Barton.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Maybe teams got impatient...
…because they had higher expectations than “league average”.
I agree that a Barton/Pena comparison isn’t fair. I was addressing the notion that we should have unending patience with Barton (or anyone else, for that matter) because Pena eventually reached his full potential.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
Yeah, but like I said, it's an inapposite comparison
With the exception of the A’s, who got Ted Lilly (i.e. real value) for him, none of the teams that dumped Pena should have done so. Teams should have had “patience” with Pena because he was already decently good at baseball, not because he had some kind of untapped Superman inside.
Barton has yet to show that he is good at baseball; the reason for keeping him around is entirely related to untapped potential. (Which is not to say it’s not real— just hasn’t been demonstrated in the majors yet.)
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Peña for Lilly
That was the three-way trade where we gave up Bonderman as PTBNL, too, right?
(And if you want to play the game of chaining trades, you could say we gave up Peña for Kielty!)
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
All trade strings die out eventually
The question is how much value they rack up in the process. That one racked up a fair bit because of Lilly’s good performance in 2002-2003.
Anyway, the full trade was Bonderman, Franklyn German, and Pena to Detroit, Weaver to New York, Lilly, Jason Arnold and John-Ford Griffin to Oakland. Arnold went on to be traded for Erubiel Durazo as part of a bizarrely complex four-player deal (that sub-string died out when Durazo hit free agency), while Griffin netted Jason Perry, who netted Jack Hannahan, who netted Justin Souza.
So actually, that trade string is (albeit by a thread) still alive in the A’s system.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
We could trace it backward.
We got Peña from Texas along with Mike Venafro, in exchange for Jason Hart, Mario Ramos, Gerald Laird, and Ryan Ludwick.
I’m pretty sure all four of those guys were Oakland drafts, though, so that’s a dead-end.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I'm curious as to when Mark Mulder's trade thread will end, if ever.
We’ve still got Barton, Anderson, Eveland, Carter, Cunningham, and Wallace. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
I guess if the A's are not really competing in 2010 (again)
then allowing Barton the season to show his worth makes sense. Maybe he’ll surprise all of us and bust out with a huge year….I’m just not counting on it. The only reason I suggested Dunn is because of his power at the corner. I know his defense is pretty shoddy but what are the other options out there, besides Glaus, which I would be open to by the way…..
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Nat's would demand a lot
They need Dunn to sell tickets and to compliment Zimmerman. He would cost a couple of decent pitching prospects and I don’t feel like forking them over for 1 year of service before he jumps for a big contract
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
Yeah, rumor around DC is that ownership, and not necessarily Rizzo
was very adamant on not trading Dunn last deadline.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
other options
Here’s the list of 1B free agents from MLBTR. I can’t say I’m very excited about any of them. Three of them we’ve already rejected.
Rich Aurilia, Hank Blalock, Russell Branyan, Bobby Crosby, Carlos Delgado, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Ross Gload, Nick Johnson, Adam LaRoche, Doug Mientkiewicz, Kevin Millar, Fernando Tatis, Jim Thome, Chad Tracy, Dmitri Young
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
More than that
how many former Expos/Nationals are on that list?
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Retired?
I thought some of those guys were dead….oh and as far as Cust at 1B please God no I can only take so much.
CROSS THEM OFF THEN
I thought some of those guys were dead
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
What are you, the American Coalition for Life Activists?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
You need to go and watch Major League again, PT.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Not if it would require me to stop making bad law jokes that only I get
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
as a baseball fan
I find it offensive that you don’t know Major League quotes off the top of your head. Sad Panda :(
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Basically the only guy who projects to be enough better than Barton to bother with
is Nick Johnson.
And he’s made of glass coated with nitroglycerine.
You could make a case for Delgado and Branyan, I guess.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
That's how I read it as well.
If the A’s are going to go out looking for someone, there are better things to look for than a free agent 1B.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I'm pretty sure that Lobsters just wander into cages
I’m no fisherman (unless fishing involves ‘standing by some water with a beer and a fishing rod, whilst not catching any fish’, in which case, I’m all pro at that), but I’m pretty sure that the only skill that catching lobsters involves is pulling up the trap.
What this says about lobsters, well, I’ll send that out to the floor.
On the subject, did you know woodlice are also crustaceans? I’d not imagine they are as tasty.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Were you being metaphorical?
lobsters wander into cages, ground balls end up in the first baseman’s glove, the only skill is pulling up the trap.
I could go to wikipedia to see if the crab louse is a crustacean, but it would probably gross me out.
Ha, worth knowing
Nah, there was no allegory – I just have nothing of real interest to add to the 1B conversation.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
I rarely pass up a chance to look something up,
so of course I made the trip to Wikipedia. The crab louse is not a crustacean; it is an insect. The wood louse is indeed a crustacean.
I didn’t realize “wood louse” was the same as the “roly-poly” bug. That thing has lots of different names.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I've never heard the 'roly poly bug'. But it makes sense
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
On a different Wikipedia page, I read
that “roly poly” is what they call it in the South. Which is weird, since I grew up in Anchorage.
But I say “y’all”, too. And so does my sister. So go figure.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Is Alaska mostly populated by Southern immigrants?
I remember being puzzled by the fact that people in Hokkaido speak basically the same dialect of Japanese as people in Tokyo, whereas the full-on dialect from across the straits in northern Honshu was (in the few snippets I heard of it) totally incomprehensible to me.
It was explained to me that Hokkaido was settled late (by ethnic Japanese— it had an indigenous population, which was of course semi-exterminated in the process), and mostly by emigrants from the Tokyo region, whereas northern Honshu’s dialect had been developing in semi-isolation for a thousand years.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
No, it's not.
There are a few, particularly some Texans that came along with the oil boom. But over all, Anchorage is dialectically homogenous with the rest of the Pacific Coast. I think our family was just weird.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I think that's the story with Oregon
Lots of Oklahomans ended up there, so the Oregon accent sounds kinda similar (at least, according to a friend I had who grew up in Oregon).
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
The area I grew up in... Antioch... also had a high "Okie ratio".
At one time. When Antioch was blue collar and all the paper mills and such were open. It has since been diluted and more of a bedroom community in recent decades.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
I'm from Oregon, I think that's nonsense
I think there may be a nationwide rural accent that transcends location, but I’ve never heard anyone from Portland sound Oklahoman.
My friend was from Eugene
might be different in the middle of the state?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I called em roly polys as well
mind you, I am from Mars.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Thats what I was told it was growing up too. Interesting.
My folks are from the burbs around Chicago.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
Regional accents is actually a pet topic of mine
so I do have theories about this. I just didn’t bother to list them all in what I thought was just a throwaway comment. To summarize:
1. I’m pretty sure my sister and I picked up “y’all” from a certain teacher we both had.
2. Accents have many components. My typical cadence is somewhat similar to Southern even though my vowels are not, so that’s why occasionally I get confused for a Southerner even though I’m not. (That’s just me, not my sister.)
3. I think the Wikipedia labeling of “roly poly” as a Southern term is just wrong. It’s used in many places, as comments here attest.
4. Like Stormtown, I don’t believe the connection of Oregon to Southern immigrants at all. I don’t think there’s anywhere on the West Coast where white Southern immigration was significant enough to affect regional accent today. (I’ve read that Southern California had a noticeable drawl in the 19th century, but that was gone by the 1920s.)
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Bugs, crabs, same thing.
Almost all non-fish seafoood is either oversized bugs or oversized slugs.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
But does it have a high bugging percentage?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The abbreviated Jeff plan
In April…
Oaktown:
1b- Daric Barton.
Sacramento:
1b- Sean Doolittle
3b- Brett Wallace
LF- Crush Carter
Come June. If Barton has proven last years relative goodness was a fluke, start the Doolittle, Carter or Wallace era
I'm thinking Barton is less likely to be a total failure than Hairston, Chavez, Davis or Cust...in
which case they’ll need Carter, Doolittle and Wallace to fill in for those guys. I guess there’s Cunningham, Patterson and Buck as well.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 28, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
Yes.
And keep the service time down on Crush, Walrus, and Doolittle
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Barton when he played everyday hit...
302/389/437 for a 829OPS in 37 games last year. He also had 18BB and 19Ks. He will start at 1B outta the spring. But Doolittle isnt far behind.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
Doolittle played like 20 games last year.
I’m assuming he’s going to get plenty of time in the minors to re-establish himself.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Is he even a sure thing to be ready Opening Day?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
For the majors? Probably not
For AAA, maybe, but he’s going to be limited in spring training.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I meant health-wise, to play anywhere
Last report I heard was non-committal, but it was a while ago.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes, to repair a tear in the left patella tendon.
It may or may not affect him in spring training.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 29, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions
Im giving barton till mid season.
So that a good amout of playing time for Doolittle is AAA. If hes hitting and Barton isnt. I think the change is made.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
What has Doolittle done to impress outside of a 1/2 year in High A ball?
For me he’s got a lot to prove at AAA.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 29, 2009 4:26 AM PST up reply actions
He was great in the spring last year..
and Before he got hurt he was holding his own in AAA.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
Get aggressively promoted by the A's
No, seriously. The fact that he got bumped through the minors so quickly says a lot about his “off camera” performance in things like instructional league.
He also had a strong performance in last year’s AFL, hitting 8 home runs (although unlike Desme, he didn’t strategically put all of them in a short span near the beginning of the league…). In fact, overall he hit 30 HR last season, albeit in slightly more than a full season’s worth of games (165 games or something like that).
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Wouldn't you say the same thing about Cahill?
I say that because I know you wouldn’t…but why not?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The fact that he was aggressively promoted by the A's
is one of several factors telling us that he is better than he appeared last season, yes.
The problem is that “what he appeared to be” last season was utter chaff, the kind of guy you would never willingly hire to pitch a game in the major leagues. He was so far beyond the pale of acceptability for a starting pitcher that even rapid, consistent improvement is not likely to lead to him being a good starter anytime soon.
If Doolittle instead of getting hurt last year had come up and had a .600 OPS for a full season, which is roughly the hitting equivalent of what Cahill did last year, I’d be pretty troubled by that too.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Wouldn't the hitting equivalent of Cahill
be more like .800 OPS with .260 wOBA?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
That's not physically possible
wOBA is derived from linear weights, which are the same events which also go into OPS. I think even if you had a hitter who literally did nothing but hit occasional home runs (a triple-slash line of .160/.160/.640), which is about the worst possible way one could compile an .800 OPS, he’d probably have a wOBA higher than .260.
There’s no easy analogy because there is no one mega-factor which is almost completely outside the control of the hitter, the way pitchers’ BABIP is.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Ya I like him too, but I still think he's got something to prove at AAA before
he’s anywhere near challenging for a major league job. His hitting at AAA last year was OK, but nothing special.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 29, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
What does that mean?
“He can’t hit outside of September”? Is he a shellfish?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
A shellfish son-of-a-bitch?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Er, you realize that Barton averaged around 1 at-bat per day until September?
When he finally got real everyday playing time, he hit very well, to the tune of an .871 OPS.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
For what it's worth,
here’s the link to my case for Daric Barton which I made during the season.
My opinions haven’t changed since, as the only difference now is that his actual stats showed what his rate stats were suggesting at the beginning of September.
I think, particularly if we don’t seem to be competing, that Barton should be given the job.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/9/14/1031095/the-case-for-daric-barton
Here it is, sorry…
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Nov 28, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
and here it is, actually clickable!
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/9/14/1031095/the-case-for-daric-barton
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Even better!
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Nov 28, 2009 8:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
And here it is with a cute little button to click!
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 28, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That makes the case all by itself...
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Nov 28, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
Glaus pls.
kthanxbye.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
Cust will be gone...Barton will be starting at 1B
With Beane’s recent comments, I doubt he get Dunn via trade when he could have had him last year on the FA wire.
With Carter and Doolittle and maybe wallace waiting in line for 1B, I doubt that anyone besides Barton is at 1B with Chavez backing him up and planning DH.
Cust will probably be traded. The cust experiment was a decent one, but I think if Beane can get the player he wants for him, he gone. Personally, I like cust and his bat/ops but I doubt he can make huge strides and become a better player – he is what is he is.
I still can't see Cust being gone this off-season
The rumors about teams considering him were interesting but I haven’t seen anything to suggest a team will give up a significant package to get him and I don’t think Beane will trade him for peanuts.
I don’t really see the downside to letting Cust go to arbitration and get a salary in the neighborhood of what he is worth. The A’s seem like they are in a position to easily afford him and the in house replacements have enough questions that need to be answered before the team needs to start clearing space for them.
If by June, enough of the youngsters have proven they are ready for the bigs and the best spot for them is at the expense of Cust then he should be plenty easy enough to move then. No need to put the cart before the horse.
Ya, he's still their best hitter, and it would leave a pretty big lineup hole to just cut him loose.
A one year deal wouldn’t be a killer contract.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 29, 2009 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
DiegoAsFan
where you at in san diego? Live there also, was at the entire A’s series…too bad they won’t be back for another 3 years
Actually I'm not in San Diego anymore
Was in the La Jolla area for many years but moved back to the bay last fall. Maybe I should go for a different screen name but I haven’t gotten around to it yet.
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