Bailey wins ROY!!!!
by skigurl on Nov 16, 2009 11:16 AM PST
360 comments
Note by baseballgirl: I LOVE this pick. I thought the voting was really reminiscent of when Street won, but I was worried about Andrus. Bailey took the award with 13 first place votes, 6 second place votes, and 5 third place votes. He won with 88, Andrus finished second with 65, and Porcello took third with 64. Didn't think it would be such a big gap.
I LOVE IT!!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS ANDREW BAILEY! (Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, and it's nice to see the A's get a little recognition.)
From the A's press release:
A’s reliever Andrew Bailey was named the American League Rookie of the Year on Monday, becoming the third A’s player in the last six years to earn the honor. Bailey, 25, posted an Oakland rookie-record 26 saves in 30 chances and a 6-3 record with a 1.84 ERA in his first full season as a closer. Named to the All-Star team in July, Bailey also delivered a 0.88 WHIP (walks and hits per inning pitched) and 91 strikeouts against 24 walks in 83 1/3 innings over 68 appearances. Bailey, who was transformed from a starter to a closer in the summer of 2008, follows in the footsteps of A’s winners Huston Street (2005) and Bobby Crosby (2004) among the seven Oakland A’s to have won the award.
The A's and ESPN.com are reporting that Andrew Bailey has won the AL Rookie of the Year award. Woot! At least someone has been watching our boy(s). Way to go, Drew!!
Heard a rumor to this effect and tried to find it on MLB.tv but they weren't posting results yet. Just saw it on Facebook and Twitter, though, so it must be true! More words needed: OK, let's say it again: Way to go, Bailey! Awesome way to finish your season. Can't wait to see more next season.
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Wooo!
I was pretty sure Andrus was gonna win, but good news.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Ouch!
Guess I should’ve suggested we trade him for Sean Rodriguez. Kidding! I hope we don’t trade Bailey. He’s got awesome stuff that he is very effective with and he seems like a humble, nice, down to earth guy. With his high 90’s heater and a great low 90’s cutter along with his ability to mix in a curve when need be, he’ll be very effective at the back of our bullpen for a long time. He truly deserves the ROY award because he dominated in his role, for the most part. Porcello struggled at times and while he pitched on a bigger stage, I feel Bailey was more effective in his role all year long. Andrus is a stud defensively who put up decent numbers for a rookie SS who is a plus defender, but if they gave out ROY awards based on defense, they might have to start giving out Gold Gloves based solely on defense, which is blasphemy! (sarcasm)
by JustinIcon19 on Nov 16, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
He has a low 90's FB.....
Its just heavy, and when located effectively, comes off the bat like a sinker. Dont trust stadium guns, their totally bogus. Their are several good conspiracy theories as to why this is, but those are another story, for another day.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
He throws two fastballs, the "cutter" and a "fastball"
The cutter comes in around 89 MPH but the fastball is legitimately 93-94 MPH or so.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
94 is reaching.......
I believe he could dial it up to that in a HUGE situation (playoffs, ASG, etc.), for a few pitches, but realistically, he has a low 90s FB. It could, MAYBE, be considered a “low-to-mid 90s” FB, on the good days. Regardless, he certainly DOES NOT have a “high 90’s FB”, cutter or no cutter, and thats the point that was clearly made.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure who suggested he has a "high 90s" fastball
I’ve always read/heard 93-94 and that’s what it looks like to me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
People, get with the program
We don’t have to debate how fast major leaguers throw anymore. We have pitch f/x now. Everything is awesome.
Bailey’s four-seamer averages 94 MPH.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
95 mph on the game radar consistently
Which is plenty fast enough because he mixes his pitches so well, especially with that cutter, then to the curve.
Congrats Andrew! You deserve it! {And BrettAnderson deserved more than 2 friggin votes! Yeesh!}
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Um, why comment on a thread w/o reading it?
JustinIcon19 suggested that he had a high 90s FB, and thus my response right below it. When you add to a conversation, its often suggested that you read the whole conversation. You see, that leads to something called ‘understanding’, and thus leads to more informed comment threads. But hey, that reading stuff is for losers anyway.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
WTF are you talking about?
That will be my last response to you…….BTW
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Its a response to Nico.......
its just placed down the thread a little cause it came after your response to the same comment.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
While we're giving out advice...
It’s bad form for new members to berate front-page writers on proper commenting etiquette.
by LongLiveLangerhans on Nov 16, 2009 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
yeah bow down and pay respect
didn’t you hear you’re only allowed to agree with and praise established members until you get your post-count a little higher?
BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?
To clear up any confusion.......
this comment was intended to be sarcastic and no slight was meant for Nico. I just thought this coment to be more fun than the everyday “hey dude, its in the thread bra!” (SoCal stylie for creativity points = +10)
Alas, it appears that would have saved me a lot of trouble.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
Eh...no worries
Most of these guys have fairly thick skin and you will also develop it here. Like…like….sarcasm oftens goes awri over the interweb brah.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
I wish that were true.....
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
+1 Billion for creativity points
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 18, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Not me.
If there were a sarcasm font, I think it should be like the one they use when you type in a password so that every letter comes out as a big black dot.
If sarcasm doesn’t go over well on the Internet, I’d say that’s not because the medium obscures the meaning, but rather because it clarifies it.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Um.
I guess I can’t wait for that other day, then.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
indeed......
Im working on that, maybe in a week or two when I have more time…..
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
I wasn't paying attention to baseball back then
but look at Walt Weiss’s winning campaig. I think he won for his defense OR the rest of the playing field was horrible.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
"campaign"
wait, is that how you spell it? I guess I could go to some spelling website but I’m lazy.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
now that is out of the way… Anderson Cy Young next year
by chris_arf on Nov 16, 2009 11:23 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
+1
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
Awesome
I also thought Andrus would win. A nice surprise.
will crosby spread his legs so far apart at bat that the games will have to be rated nc-17 -- emperor nobody
More from espn.com:
Bailey, an All-Star in his first major league season, was selected first on 13 of 28 ballots and finished with 88 points. His 26 saves and 1.84 ERA were the best among AL rookie pitchers, and he struck out 91 in 83 1/3 innings. Opponents batted .167 against Bailey.
Texas Rangers shortstop Elvis Andrus was the runner-up with 65 points, one more than Detroit Tigers pitcher Rick Porcello.
Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.
that is completely disgusting!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 17, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
WOW!
I’m surprised he won by that many points.
How many ROY awards have been given to an Oakland player anyways? It seems like it happens a lot but maybe it’s my imagination.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Well off memory
Street, Crosby, Grieve, Weiss, McGwire, Canseco in the last 25 years. Hinske and Berroa were both former A’s farmhands.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
wikipedia
Members of the Brooklyn and Los Angeles Dodgers have won the most awards of any franchise (with 16), twice the total of the New York Yankees (eight), who have produced the most in the American League.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
post fail
Members of the Brooklyn and Los Angeles Dodgers have won the most awards of any franchise (with 16), twice the total of the New York Yankees (eight), who have produced the most in the American League
Sam Jethroe is the oldest player to have won the award, at age 32,3 33 days older than 2000 winner Kazuhiro Sasaki (also 32).[
1952 Byrd, HarryHarry Byrd of the Philadelphia Athletics is the only other A’s rookie to win the award. Counting him and Bailey the A’s have 8 (tiying them with the Yankees).
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
man I can't spell or type
it must get worse when i only get 4 hours of sleep.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
The Giants only have produced 5
but 3 of them are Hall of Famers AND MVPs, one is “only” an MVP and one of them is John Montefusco, a pitcher in 1975, who hit a HR in his first major league AB and went on to throw a No-Hitter in 1976.
The A’s only have one MVP that was ROY and none have gone to the HOF (yet, crosses fingers for McGwire). Overall the group’s careers haven’t been that great, especially considering the controversy surrounding Big Mac and Canseco. At least 3 of them have been on a team that has won a World Series though! Only Mays has a WS ring for the Giants.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I know I'm talking to myself but I can't help it.
Not only do the Dodgers have 16 ROYs but they have 3 streaks of consecutive winners.
two consecutive 1952-1953
four consecutive 1979-1982
five! consecutive 1992-1996 (although Nomo was exactly a rookie)
wow, I thought 3 was awesome.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Don lived the history he writes about
I’m just reading it :-)
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
And Mitchell Page should have won it in '77, when he finished 2nd to Eddie Murray
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I just received the notice from the A's I'm on the mailing list)
it was well deserved, congrats, Andrew Bailey!
From the Chronicle
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/athletics/detail?&entry_id=51723#ixzz0X3K1zhNE
A’s reliever Michael Wuertz is ecstatic over Bailey’s being Rookie of the Year, saying it’s as if his little brother won the award.
“I don’t think a lot of people got to see him, being in Oakland, but what he did and where he came from, it’s absolutely amazing,” Wuertz told The Chron’s Susan Slusser.
will crosby spread his legs so far apart at bat that the games will have to be rated nc-17 -- emperor nobody
"I don't think a lot of people got to see him, being in Oakland, but..."
Heh. But those that did know it’s well deserved. Huzzah!
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore, it doesn’t work" - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on Nov 16, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
A'mazing!
Congrats ‘Boom Boom’
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore, it doesn’t work" - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on Nov 16, 2009 11:32 AM PST reply actions
Awesome.
Big congrats to Andrew! Now I have to sift though all of the biased opinions on forums saying that there’s “NO WAY” he deserved it. It’s easy for people to say that he didn’t deserve it when they didn’t watch him play. He was flat-out; lights out all year.
by spottedstomper on Nov 16, 2009 11:35 AM PST reply actions
I dont think you needed to watch at all...
His numbers stand alone….easily. Sick set of ratios.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Nov 16, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think there's going to be that much complaint
His sabermetric stats are pretty unimpeachable. It’s not like he just lucked into a bunch of saves somehow. Yeah, you can argue WAR and the low value of relief pitchers, but he put up a competitive WAR number too, even though it wasn’t the best in the league.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Even though he didn't pitch in the ASG
I wonder if his selection to the team (even if it was only because every team has to have a rep) helped him win the ROY?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Well if we can make that assumption
Then maybe since Obama even knew who he was that helped him win ROY.
I just don’t buy into it. But I could be wrong, the ASG is big.
by Twan54321 on Nov 16, 2009 9:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
well if you didn't see the intros
then seeing Obama’s quote “So you’re the rookie?” might have been the only reason you knew Bailey was their. But, who knows?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Yeeeaaheeeesss!
Awesome. Was hoping he’d top out Andrus…whew.
"Yeah, all I could find was Triple-Sec and rootbeer...What?! You mean you had tequila the whole time?!"
I am THRILLED with this...
…honestly, the more I looked at his numbers, the more I saw him as an elite closer, nevermind a rookie. I was just going to be sick if he didn’t win. I think the writers got this one very, very right.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
Lets hope his career doesn't turn out like that of their last...
ROY.
Bobby “My Dad thinks I’m great” Crosby
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Nov 16, 2009 11:52 AM PST reply actions
oops...second to last
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Nov 16, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, you gotta remember
Huston “Blows Crucial Saves” Street
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 16, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
Thats just messed up fellas.....
How you gonna do Bailey like that? You must really not like the kid, and think this award is undeserved, to put him in the same class as “Did I Do That”, aka “Oops”, aka “Drive home safe Detroit!”, aka the player that shall not be named heretofore, until you all blew it. Way to go guys……
Go knock on wood, and pray forgiveness from the Baseball Gods!!
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 5:43 PM PST up reply actions
just some bad memories
we’re all hoping he DOESN’T follow in their infamous footsteps
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 16, 2009 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
I'm just rolling my eyes quietly over here
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
hey PT, when's the next mega-fanpost?
I thoroughly enjoyed the last one
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 16, 2009 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
The next mega-fanpost is almost certainly not until early January
However, I might do a “minor” one in the meantime. If you catch my drift.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
save the sly innuendo for sex and drug references, dammit!
You’re diluting my schtick!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 17, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
Asking me not to make puns is like asking a bear not to s**t in the woods
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
You're going underground?
Oh wait, you said ‘minOr’.
My bad.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Yes
Because if Huston never gave up that shot to Ordonez, the A’s would have won the next 4 games to win the series.
Huston was and is a great pitcher. He may not be Papelbon, Rivera, Nathan, or Soria but he certainly is in the next set of relievers.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I almost agree
I wouldn’t classify Street as a “great” pitcher, but I would classify him as a “very good” one.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Papelbon=Overrated!!!!!!!!!
Bailey will surpass him, and quickly!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Papelbon hasn't been nearly as good since
he started throwing almost exclusively fastballs. I don’t know why he doesn’t throw his splitter much anymore — hard on his arm? — but as a one-pitch pitcher he’s like most one-pitch pitchers: Vulnerable.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It would only have to be 3 more wins......
and that has very recently been proven possible. Something about some Papi guy rings a bell…..
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
I really don't get this.
You’re throwing away all of the good times we had with Street because of one mistake? I don’t even blame him for that one. We were tied, first of all, not leading, and Street had entered the game in the 7th.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
Its not just that one mistake.....
He blew an inordinate number of saves while an Athletic. That blown game was just the massive gob of icing on the heaping/multilayered cake of blown saves that was his time as an athletic post ROY award.
You guys are gonna get me banned for over-negativity, simply because you keep asking me about “he who shall remain nameless”. It would be greatly appreciated if we could all move on now that our views are all clear.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
Street had 94 saves and 27 blown saves in 4 seasons with the A's
I’m not picking sides, I was just wondering and thought I would post the numbers.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Wow......
Even I didn’t think it was that many. Ouch! I guess I started to block him from memory earlier than I thought.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
The acronym for blown saves is very apropos of its value as a statistic
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
"shall not ... heretofore"
I think you are getting heretofore confused with henceforth.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
lol
Its a play on words.
heretofore = formal of ‘until now’ or ‘before this time’ aka hitherto…….
in conjunction with the future ‘shall not’.
In my mind “he that will remain nameless” was banned from thought long ago, especially when attributing “Drive home safe Detroit’s” decline to Bailey’s possible future simply because they both received the same award, on the same team, at the same position. Thus the use of heretofore.
I personally thought my play on words was hilarious, but I crack myself up grammatically all the time.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
I'm just curious
What odds are you willing to give me if I bet you that Street will post a better run average than Bailey next season? You seem to find the notion risible, so… 4 to 1?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Nowhere did I make any predictions.....
rather, I believe its taboo to compare the players. Its unfair to Bailey, because he doesn’t have a proven penchant for big/crucial game blown saves like ‘he who shall not be named’ does. Indeed, “Oops” does put up consistent stats that are pretty decent, but thats not what you, or any normal fan remembers. And its unfair to “Drive safe Detroit” because, while he does have that one nasty habit, he has proven a capable closer with decent longevity to this point while Bailey could still be a flash in the pan like so many before him. Closers are fickle like that.
Earlier in the thread it was said that “Did I Do That” was not the reason the A’s lost to/were swept by Detroit in 2006, but Ordonez’ ABSOLUTE BOMB sure is the lasting memory of that series IMO.
Always remember my friend, perception IS reality. Not to mention the fact that I feel sick to my stomach and have bad flashbacks every time I see the guy.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
You have no idea what you're talking about.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I love you too sweetheart...
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
Why is it that an expressed opinion.....
that is opposite of yours, automatically means I have no idea what I am talking about? Its an opinion bro.
By the way, that kind of personal attack is outlined in the Comm Giuldlines. I wonder, will you be held to the same standard as others, namely myself, have been treated?
We will see.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Damn you whine a lot.
First off, there was no personal attack, simply me telling you that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Which is true. Street was one of the better relievers in baseball, but you go ahead and cite blown saves as if they’re meaningful.
If you’re going to continue to try and tell people what they do or don’t think about players, I’d suggest you rethink the way you’re going to post, especially when you’re going back and forth with someone like PT who actually knows what the hell he’s talking about.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
So wait.....
Blown saves aren’t meaningful? Since when?
Im not telling you how to think about anyone, just how I think. Don’t get it twisted bro.
Also, it was just printed a few comments before this one by micdog, but he blew 27 saves over 4 seasons, while actually saving 97 games. Thats not a very good percentage. Then I add the terrible big game memories of those blown saves. (I shudder at the thought)
Lastly, if my expectation that the Community Guidelines be applied equally, as they have been applied to me in the recent past, appears to be whining, so be it.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
By the way thats less than 80% success rate......
hurting….
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
Hey homes
I mean no disrespect to you at all, and I can appreciate how much conviction you sell your points with, right or wrong. I also appreciate that you are at least articulate with your posts, which is much more than a lot of people can say.
However, if you want to argue vehemently while insulting everyone in the process, your points aren’t going to be taken very seriously.
I’m in no way trying to say that I back everyone else, but like other people have said, you may want to earn some respect before you start dishing out criticism.
Anyway, just my opinion, whether you care or not.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 18, 2009 9:40 PM PST up reply actions
... so, in other words, you're like every other internet bully
Unwilling to put your money where your mouth is.
Fine. I got it.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
First.....
Im poor, and have no money too spend. Its called putting food on the table in a recession.
Second…..
Putting your money where your mouth is, is the way degenerate gamblers get started. Ive seen those types, and like myself the way I am, fiscally responsible.
ty
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
Sure
Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep better at night.
P.S. I’m also poor, which is why I would like to get more money— for instance, yours.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I sleep great, thanks......
for caring.
Now would you like to continue to try and bait me like a child, or actually talk about meaningful stats/players/etc with regards to the game of baseball? You know, the stuff this blog is supposed to be about.
Just a thought……..
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
I've been called a lot of things on this blog.......
but no comments more exemplifies the names hurled at me, than your last two in this sequence.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
You know.....
It IS ok to agree to disagree in life right? Differences of opinion are part of what makes this country, and the game of baseball for that matter, so great.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
Your contributions to this thread
interfere with the process of talking about meaningful stats/players/etc with regards to the game of baseball, since you insist on festooning the thread with juvenile nicknames and on throwing around irrelevant-at-best statistics like blown saves.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
The idea that blown saves is irrelevant....
is news to me.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
And by the way.....
this IS AN, and nicknames, suggested nicknames, and the like are commonplace. Juvenile? maybe, but then Im certainly not the only guilty party on this blog, not by a long shot.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 8:15 PM PST up reply actions
Which is why you're behind the 8 ball
when it comes to, how did you say it??? Oh yeah:
talking about meaningful stats/players/etc with regards to the game of baseball? You know, the stuff this blog is supposed to be about.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Actually.....
the idea that blown saves are unimportant/irrelevant is totally unsubstantiated. There are lots of people that consider it a very important stat. If you dont, thats your opinion, but I have yet to hear an actual argument as to why blown saves are irrelevant as you say.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
The reason BS are BS
There are a lot of reasons but I’ll give you three examples:
Player A comes into the 9th inning with a 3 run lead. He gives up 2 runs. He does not get a blown save.
Player B comes into the 7th inning with a one run lead. He pitches 2 innings and gives up one run. He gets a blown save.
Player C comes into the 9th with a one run and lead the bases loaded and no outs. Player C induces a double play then Ks the next batter. For that, he gets a blown save.
Player A obviously performed the worst of the three pitchers, and yet he’s the only without a BS. And that’s BS.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 17, 2009 11:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, its a good argument......
and I’ll gladly give you that. However, for every one of your examples there are 10 others, that are just ’plain blown saves. Blown saves where a guy comes in to start the 9th with a one (or two) run lead, and simply blows it.
In response to A and C, If its the 9th inning and a team has a 3 run (or less) lead, generally, the closers in the game. (Unless of course he needs a day off after a back to back) I can think of numerous times when a closer has come into the game with a three run lead and given up one or two runs.
The reason? Some attribute it to the fact that many closers need tight situations to get the adrenalin pumping, and be most effective. There are even more times when closers come in ‘just to get work’ and get shelled for lack of adrenalin. Closers are a special breed like that.
Example C would seem a rare situation for a closer to enter the ball game, and to use such a rare situation hardly seems to make the statistic irrelevant..
For example B, I thought those were now referred to as Blown Holds, since middle relievers are credited with holds when successful. Also, how often do we see 3 inning saves these days? Not very often I think, but I could be wrong.
In the end, this is all about Saves vs. Save Opportunities, and I believe if a closer wants to be considered elite, he must have a high 80’s-low 90’s percentage, and certainly not below 80% like “he who shall not be named” during his time with the A’s.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 18, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions
Incorrect.
Unless you plan on going through EVERY potential save and making sure it was the right kind, there’s no sense in citing them as any sort of meaningful stat. Too many variables involved.
Super cool for fantasy baseball teams though, which nobody cares about.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
My point was......
your rare examples are easily offset by the many regular, run of the mill, Brad Lidge type, blown saves that happen every day in baseball.
Also, we have been discussing closers in this thread, and I cannot remember a time when a legit closer came in to start his save in the 7th, or in the 9th with the bases loaded and a one run lead. Rather, most closer enter the game to start the 9th.
Again, a couple weird ways to accumulate a blown save, dies not make the stat irrelevant. Sure, its not the “be all to end all” for closer stats, but irrelevant, I think not.
In the end there is no way for anyone to defend Streets under 80% success rate that was well below league average for normal, run of the mill closers, around the league, let alone the good or very good closers out there.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 18, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
OMG
You made me say his name……
Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!
Mental lapse…..
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 18, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Actually, there is a way to defend it.
The fact that you choose to ignore that because it doesn’t agree with what you think is relevant here.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
You've proven......
that their are rare circumstances under which a pitcher, not necessarily a closer (what this conversation is about), can get the shaft with a blown save.
Again, a closer that saves less than 80% of his opportunities, is a below average closer, any way you look at it, AND THATS COLD HARD FACT my friend. Average for the league is usually in the low 80s, while good/elite closers are in the high 80s and low 90’s year in and year out.
Red herring arguments about the legitimacy of Blown Saves doesn’t change that.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 18, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
if you really wanted to know
you could research all the Blown saves by Street on http://www.baseball-reference.com/ and find out how many were “legit” Blown Saves. That would be a lot of work though.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Or you could just use WPA, which is actually semi-logical
and doesn’t idiotically penalize players for, to take one particularly obvious example, performing their best in tied games when good performance is the most critical.
Of course, that doesn’t fit your narrative since Street finished fifth in baseball in that stat this season.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
For whatever reason, or no reason at all, Street has been unclutch
Whether you look at his splits by leverage, WPA, Clutchiness, or whatever, Street has been worse in tight situations than he is overall. His overall numbers are sparkling, of course, but he has been unclutch.
The irony is that Street was touted by all the mental-approach guys as having plus-plus makeup when he was coming up.
And that, as they say, is that....
In the end, thats what I have been saying. The guy blows big time saves.
Also, in the end, there is no way these guys can defend an under 80% success rate while with the A’s. Its WELL BELOW even average closers that are generally in the low 80s percentage wise.
Plain and simple, there is no way to defend that number.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 18, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
And these clutchiness numbers,
are they ones that are repeatable, or are they ones that studies have demonstrated have no predictive value? (That’s not a rhetorical question; I’m really asking.)
In other words, granted that Street has a history of being unclutch, is there any data suggesting he will continue to be unclutch?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Virtually none.
If you look at, for example, Derek Jeter’s clutch scores over the years (WPA/pLI – WPA/LI, or essentially non-context WPA subtracted from game-context WPA), you’ll see this:
1995: -0.03
1996: -0.83
1997: +1.02
1998: 0.13
1999: 0.87
2000: -0.64
2001: -0.58
2002: -0.29
2003: +0.38
2004: +0.61
2005: -0.08
2006: +2.33
2007: -0.17
2008: -0.28
2009: -0.85
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
*Fifth in baseball among relief pitchers
Sorry.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
festooning = +10 for creativity points
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
I know.....
its gotten hard to follow, but if you read from the beginning, it becomes clearer. I just did it as a refresher before I responded to all this, and people are going nutz for no real reason. In my mind at least, it all makes sense.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
Trust me, it doesn't.
The only thing that became clearer on a reread of this thread is that you’re making absurd claims based on shoddy or nonexistent evidence. You’re dragging someone’s name through the mud for no reason. And that’s why everyone’s “going nutz”.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
by danmerqury on Nov 17, 2009 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Its not just me though.....
I know for a fact that many people feel the same way I do, and 27 blown saves in 124 chances (less than 80%), as well as the Ordonez shot, and all the other big game blown saves is not what I call nonexistent evidence.
I respect your opinion, regardless of disagreement, and we do, obviously, disagree.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions
Voldemort plays baseball?
Huh…I guess I figured he’d be more of a quidditch guy.
"The A's get some action but they do not score..." -Glen Kuiper
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Two points:
(1) It’s not a big deal. I wouldn’t have mentioned it at all except that you were ragging on Nico up above.
(2) Don’t try to pretend an error was a “play on words”. We’re not stupid. Your rationalization makes no sense. You screwed up and used the wrong word. We all do that sometimes. Just wear it.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Its a blog bro....
take a deep breath….
ok…..
I appreciate that you are so forward in calling me a liar. Others would beat around the bush, but Im glad I know where you stand. Have a nice day….
Go A’s
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
Last thing Iglew
heretofore, being the formal of ‘until now’, is used in conjunction with “until you all blew it”. Henceforth would thus make no sense unless used in conjunction with “until you all BLOW it”.
No, the correction, should a correction be made, is with the words ‘shall’ and ‘be’, and would be replaced with ‘should’ and ‘have been’ respectively.
Grammar is fun huh? In the end however, this is a blog and pointing out perceived grammatical mistakes, even if they aren’t, is pretty petty IMO.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 8:25 PM PST up reply actions
No, it's really not.
When the only way to get any sort of points across is by using written (typed) words, it’s pretty sad to make errors.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Well when I make one.....
I’ll gladly let you gloat. I mean hey, we all cant be blue collar. There always has to be people looking down their noses at us working class, uneducated, ‘po Oakland folk’, so fill that role with pride brother, and dont forget your top hat.
Whatever floats your boat.
I know I’m new and all, but is this really the way people respond to differences of opinion here? More nonsense, totally unrelated to baseball, has been dedicated to this thread than seems reasonable, and all because of one opinion, on one former Athletic, that blew one of the most crucial A’s games of the last decade.
I hate to think what’s gonna happen when someone starts talking Jeremy Giambi…..
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 17, 2009 11:42 PM PST up reply actions
The answer to your question is no.
There is plenty of difference of opinion on AN. The hostile attitude you’ve experienced from the community is only directed at a few select newcomers who evince a certain tone.
Maybe it’s fair, maybe it’s not. I don’t know. Personally, I have mixed feelings. Sometimes I agree with it and sometimes I don’t.
But it is what it is. AN on the whole is more welcoming than most blogs, but a certain attitude will get the community’s dander up. Either you’ll adapt to that and learn to fit in or you won’t.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
no thanks,
I enjoy the banter, and raising my eyebrows at those that take another’s opinion as some kind of threat, rather than just one of the many opinions on this blog to be debated.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 18, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
There are many things in the world of baseball
that used to be mostly in the realm of opinion and just a little bit in the realm of fact,
but now are mostly in the realm of fact and just a little bit in the realm of opinion.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 18, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
You may be new
but your argument isn’t. And it’s the sort of thing that has been widely refuted many times over in the long history of AN.
If some members of AN seem impatient with you, realize that you’re entering in the middle of a long-running conversation and sometimes it’s best to listen more than you talk, if only just to catch up on the vernacular.
Of course, you’re not required to do that. It’s just a suggestion.
by LongLiveLangerhans on Nov 18, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
That's pretty well said.
It’s kind of an extreme example, but it’s like he walked into a medical conference talking about reflexology and homeopathy. s0sN…, I’m sure there are many of us around here who would be happy to help bring you up to speed, but you just kinda walked in and, well, this happened. The listening suggestion is a good one.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
GOD DAMMIT WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT TEJADA INSTEAD OF CHA
wait, what?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
oooooo damn
His dad might yell at you for that
by Twan54321 on Nov 16, 2009 4:58 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Should have been a one-two of Anderson-Bailey in whichever order
Poor Brett Anderson got screwed in the voting but at least it went to the right team
Agreed.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
My rookie of the year, projectability division= Brett Anderson
My rookie of the year, actual performance division = Andrew Bailey
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 16, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Yep
I was a big Brett Anderson proponent, but Bailey is very deserving. Both of them were uncommonly good.
by eastbayexpat on Nov 16, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
I think what's more remarkable about Bailey
is that pre season, no-one would have thought that he’d perform so well. You could weave a story whereby Cahill or Anderson came up and showed people what for, but Bailey? Totally off the radar.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
This is just untrue.
I’ve been a charter member of the Andrew Baily OOTP fan club for some time now. I’d give you proof but the OOTP website is down
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
In which case, you're award two internet stars
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
but it's back up now!
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
OK, I figured out WTGAB,
but what is KUTGW?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Are you getting sick?
Take vitamin C, it works. :)
"The A's get some action but they do not score..." -Glen Kuiper
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
if I were you
I would look for more opportunities to point out that comment. I’m not being sarcastic.
Double Cough
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
Not that I would have even believed how fluke good Zobrist turned out to be this year.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
You really thought he'd win Rookie of the year in 2009?
I mean, granted, you could see he was going ot be good – but you’ve got to admit, he overperformed expectations.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
I would have to be a different sort of person than I am
to honestly believe that any player is a priori likely to win an award like rookie of the year. Taking “the field” is always the correct bet…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
It would suck to make the opening day roster
and then get sent down before playing a game, never to be called up again…
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 18, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
is like oxygen.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
god i hate Jordin Sparks
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
Pat Benatar!!!
I don't think any one decision makes your life... unless you accidentally invent some kind of zombie virus or something.
I take it you didn't attend the free concert at the Coliseum?
Side note: I’m ashamed how many players on the current roster immediately recognized her song in that commercial they used to promote her free concert. I’m not crazy about country, but I bet the clubhouse was a better place when Nick Swisher had control over the radio.
Side note, the second: I hope you were joking, because I definitely had Pat Benatar in mind.
by LongLiveLangerhans on Nov 16, 2009 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
Now if I had control of the radio
It would be insane, of course the guys in the clubhouse might kick me out.
by Twan54321 on Nov 16, 2009 9:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Wait, I'm confused.
Are you saying Swish would play country music, or are you saying Jordin Sparks is country and Swish would play something else?
My impression was that Sparks is vaguely R&B-ish teen pop, while Swisher likes hip hop at full volume. But I wouldn’t swear to either of those.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I was saying Swisher likes country music.
And I’m basing that off an instance I recall where Swisher and Joe Blanton hurried after a game to go watch Toby Keith at the Oracle Arena. That, and this article, on Swisher’s locker music helping to inject life into the Yankee clubhouse. In that article, though, it’s heavy metal.
by LongLiveLangerhans on Nov 16, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
I love country music. And I love Swish.
I will now proceed to imagine that Swisher loves country music, based solely on your Toby Keith anecdote.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Swish seems like the kind of guy who likes al types of music
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Swisher would even listen to
Charles Nelson Reilly’s rap album
(if it actually existed)
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 17, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
I can believe that.
But I’ll bet Toby Keith was Blanton’s idea. I imagine he said, “Swish, you gotta come with me and hear this guy,” and Swish was like, “Cool, I’m there.”
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
is a burning flame
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 16, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
Haha, awesome
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 16, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
it seems like only yesterday...
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 16, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
I would comment
“oh go put on a Fassbinder movie and hang yourself!”
but I would hate to drop that one on someone who only knew the song, and not the singer behind it.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 16, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
I read somewhere once
that metallic KO was on his record player. I thought, “that could do it”
I have no idea if that is true.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Do I need to go see Control?
And what’s wrong with Fassbinder? I liked Ali: Fear Eats the Soul.
by LongLiveLangerhans on Nov 16, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
Control is ok... the book that it's based on, Touching from a Distance,
by Deborah Curtis is tremendous, though, and is well worth a read.
The film, though, for all the shots of Macclesfield, is a little too nice, the band members are all a little too good looking, and it’s hard to believe that ‘Ian Curtis’ would commit suicide (in the film, at least).
But it’s probably worth watching, if you’re interested in the music, etc. But the book. Read the book.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
herzog, not fassbinder
the Idiot, not metallic ko
jeez…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Think of me, Babe, whenever
Hey, wait. That doesn’t rhyme.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
is an unfamiliar name
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Me Tender
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 16, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Love me sweet... Wrap your lips
Uh.. I’ll stop
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
TW-(OAH)-S
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 16, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Hey stranger
I guess your ears must have been ringing
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 17, 2009 3:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
only not your ears
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
On *your* ears, Mike.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
was a trucker's hand...
…never stuck around long enough for a one night stand…
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 16, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
is just a four-letter word.
"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs
to me, coming from you, friend is a four letter wooorrrrdddd
end. is. the only part of the word, that I heard, call me morbid or absurd.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Player 1st 2nd 3rd Points
Andrew Bailey 13 6 5 88
Elvis Andrus 8 6 7 65
Rick Porcello 7 8 5 64
Jeff Niemann x 5 6 21
Gordon Beckham x 2 4 10
Brett Anderson x 1 1 4
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Nov 16, 2009 12:12 PM PST reply actions
Anderson >>>> Beckham
stoopid voters.
But hey, ROY!
by cityplANner on Nov 16, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, f**k David Beckham
and his zombie wife!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 16, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
I'll take the wife.
Beckham, I just wanna play on the same field as for a match or two.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
you're invited.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Have they not seen Anderson's slider?
He can bend it like Beckham and then some!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah, but Anderson “pounds” the strike zone!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
The Dark Horse candidate takes it
Kinda. Go A’s!! Go Bailey!
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Haha!
Yes! Congrats, Mr. Bailey. We’re all damned proud of you.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
Terrific news!
At least something positive ended up happening out of that horrible season.
by coffee roaster on Nov 16, 2009 12:42 PM PST reply actions
Congratulations to Andrew!
So who wins it next year? Carter or Wallace?
Alcides Escobar
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Nov 16, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
Congrats Bailey-now onto Devine
Lets hope the 2008 stud pitcher( not ziggy) Devine comes back healthy and throwing gas.
7. Wuertz/Ziggy
8. Devine
9. Bailey
looking pretty good right now.
Practically makes it a six inning game
If only we could score enough to be leading in the 7th…
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 16, 2009 2:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I think the scores speak
to the way communication is changing in sports media coverage.
None of us were surprised when Bailey was chosen by Sports Illlustrated’s panel of experts, but we were surprised that he won easily in the actual vote. In past years, you could expect that top baseball analysts like the ones on the SI panel would know about Bailey and recognize his achievement, but the mass of sportswriters would be oblivious to it. Today, I think, this information filters through. The sportswriters are no longer in their little bubble; there is enough of an information network that the buzz finds its way to them and they have to notice.
On the other hand, Anderson’s low score shows that this only goes so far.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Thankfully, there is only one Jon Heyman at SI
From this column:
AL Rookie of the Year
1. Porcello, Tigers: Became rare 20-year-old to win at least 14 games (Dwight Gooden was another) and pitched beautifully in the deciding game at the Metrodome. Plus, whipped Youkilis.
2. Jeff Niemann, Rays: In a year where the Rays traded away three starters, they were smart to keep this guy..
3. Andrew Bailey, A’s: Big-time numbers, but let’s face it: He’s a closer on a loser. Ricky Romero, Gordon Beckham, Elvis Andrus and Brett Anderson are all also worthy.
“He’s a closer on a loser” – go fark yourself, Jon.
Hey Al, just go away, baby.
WOW.
Might have to take this one apart, FJM style ;-) That’s really kind of a jerk thing to say.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 16, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
You know, it's funny
He also voted for Zack Greinke as his Cy Young pick which kinda kills his “don’t vote for players on losing teams” thing.
by eastbayexpat on Nov 16, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
Ya knowing that
Makes me think that he is a complete joke now.
by Twan54321 on Nov 16, 2009 5:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
He's a Boras mouthpiece
Paid loyalty matters.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Nov 16, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
Isn't a given save total more impressive on a "loser"?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
One would think.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
Yes, using a weird thing called "logic", you see ;-)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 16, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
Dear Mr. Heyman
You suck as a voter. Leave it to someone who actually knows what they are doing.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
This is awesome news
Congrats Bailey and a good day for the A’s and their fans!
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
Woohoo!
Nice way to brighten up a Monday. :) So happy for Bailey. I’ll have to DVR the press conference tomorrow.
I don't think any one decision makes your life... unless you accidentally invent some kind of zombie virus or something.
Congratulations Andrew!!!
Gives us something to look back on and remember the 2009 season by
by elephantbaseball on Nov 16, 2009 1:46 PM PST reply actions
Congrats To Bailey
Woke up this morning with startling news as i glided through various websites. First that Jackson was traded from the Warriors, then that Weiss might be out as coach of my Irish. Then i found this. I am extremely excited, he deserved it.
Replying to another point on this thread i love the idea of having Zeigler/Wuertz, Devine and Bailey in the back end of the pen. It does in some ways make it a 6 inning game, shortening the game like that especially with a weaker offense is vital to contending.
"Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win!!!"
Jackson was traded?
Too bad they couldn’t trade him to a second-rate Mexican club team.
Good riddance!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 16, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
yup
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 17, 2009 1:10 AM PST up reply actions
The A's have never had a losing season
following a Rookie of the Year season. Lets hope that continues.
by Jessse on Nov 16, 2009 5:00 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Now THAT is one of my favorite random stats ever
Go A’s in 2010!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
a million!
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 16, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
1953
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
Ohhhhh. 0:-)
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
bless you're heart
you A’s fans hope giver you.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2009 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
Good news!!
Although I didn’t hear it from any of the local news stations, of course. Way to go, Andrew!
by A's Fan in Virginia on Nov 16, 2009 5:02 PM PST reply actions
kind of makes this season seem a little more glass-half-full
Congratulations to Andrew, all of us are brimming with pride and look forward to many more.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
(many more great seasons and awards)
I picked the wrong week to quit drinkin’…
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Nov 16, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
There's a good week?
will crosby spread his legs so far apart at bat that the games will have to be rated nc-17 -- emperor nobody
Says someone known as "day-to-day."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Also, not to be picky but.......
That glass is only a third full, or, dare I say, two thirds empty. I thought it might be more like 40% full, until I factored in the increasing diameter, from bottom to top, of the shot glass.
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
Not to pick nits, or anything
but that glass is clearly not half full.
Needs a top-up!
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
all of this proves what we already knew
which is that I am booze-ignorant and should stick to intoxicants with which I am familiar, like this yummy piece of garlic bread I just made with a special, secret kind of butter melted into it, hmmmm.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Nov 16, 2009 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
(drooling)
Let the Kids play Billy!! No More Rent-a-Vet in Oakland!!
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Nov 16, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
One might plausibly argue that
to be booze-ignorant is more faithful to the spirit of booze than to be booze-wise.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
then i am a dirty dirty cheater
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2009 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
which, paradoxically, is also in the spirit...
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
yes!!!!
Highlight of season.
[b]More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis[/b]
Does Rajai Davis know Al Davis?
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 16, 2009 5:23 PM PST reply actions
Dear Journal,
November 16th: Season is finally starting to look bright…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
lends a whole new meaning
to the phrase, “wait until next year”.
[b]More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis[/b]
Does Rajai Davis know Al Davis?
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 16, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
They are up 2-0 to none
In the fictional divisional series that I am playing on MVP 04. Frank Thomas hit a game winning homer in game one and Jimmie Foxx had 6 RBI in game two.
[b]More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis[/b]
Does Rajai Davis know Al Davis?
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 17, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
Who's your third baseman?
Chavez or Lansford?
And did you find a spot for Indian Bob Johnson, one of the A’s greatest outfielders?
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 17, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
Chavez
Chavez is my third baseman….
My outfield is Rickey, Dwayne Murphy, and Reggie.
[b]More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis[/b]
Does Rajai Davis know Al Davis?
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 17, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
mvp05
Not 04, my mistake.
[b]More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis[/b]
Does Rajai Davis know Al Davis?
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 17, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
Well then who's your backup 3rd baseman?
"The A's get some action but they do not score..." -Glen Kuiper
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Tony Phillips
and I have scutaro for all over the infield.
[b]More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis[/b]
Does Rajai Davis know Al Davis?
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 18, 2009 3:20 AM PST up reply actions
I always start with an All A's team,
but then the computer AI starts making me stupid trade offers and before you know it, I’ve got Grady Sizemore and Chase Utley on my team.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 18, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, and in my game Jason Kendall always ends up being my best power hitter
"The A's get some action but they do not score..." -Glen Kuiper
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Yeah. Joe Blanton wins 20+ games every year in mine
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 19, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
I had McCann/Gordon/Crosby/Overrated Indins Guy/Howard (signed as FA for like $4M/year)
As my infield.
Crosby is an MVP ’05 stud.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Yeah he is.
That’s why I artificially deflate his stats prior to contract time, sign him cheap, then boost him up again and make him the perennial stud SS of the RiverCats.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 22, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
I never call him up, though.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 22, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
Lansford
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
I think that for my next season I will create a rookie Sal Bando
and platoon him with Chavez.
[b]More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis[/b]
Does Rajai Davis know Al Davis?
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 19, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
Congratulations Drew!
You did Oaktown proud!
"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady
by geogrman on Nov 16, 2009 6:01 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Well......it's been said well and all by the community
I jumped for joy – oh wait, I was driving. I shouted out loud and pasted a happy grin on my face!! SUCH.GOOD.NEWS!!
Congrats to you Andrew….you made my season most enjoyable!
Anyone think...
… that we have another one in the works for next year?
I know no one is big on our big guys starting the year in the field, but what’s the latest anyone was called up and still won? Wallace have a chance?
how about Chris Carter
Coming up in late may and hitting 27 dingers the rest of the way. Something like that.
[b]More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis[/b]
Does Rajai Davis know Al Davis?
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 17, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
I would wet myself in joy!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 17, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
you and me and nico
all would be moist together over that.
[b]More Rajai Davis & less mount Davis[/b]
Does Rajai Davis know Al Davis?
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 17, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
kitty litter for all of us!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 17, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
speaking of Carter
He’s been out of the lineup in the Mexican League for the last couple nights again. Few at-bats, no outfield experience, and tons of SOs suggest that he’ll get a fair amount of time in AAA this coming year.
In related news...
They couldn’t let a day go without the Yankees winning something, so Kate Hudson was voted AL Nookie of the Year.
Alyssa Milano took Cookie of the Year,
mostly because Pepperidge Farm gets 12 votes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Pepperidge Farm
They’re not even that good if you ask me, but whatever.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Nov 16, 2009 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
JESSICA ALBA!!!111
Just Because.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions
Congratz!
Way to go Bailey on getting AL Rookie of the Year! Good job to Brett Anderson as well for receiving two votes. Hopefully someone on the A’s like Chris Carter or Brett Walace will win it next year too.
by Bay Area Sports Fan on Nov 16, 2009 9:13 PM PST reply actions
Ron Washington is not too happy with the result
“For him to finish second is an injustice,” Ron Washington said. "I know Bailey did a great job, but he certainly didn’t do a whole lot to help his team win.
“Elvis played every day. He held our defense together. He got big hits. He did a lot of good things. I may be biased, but he deserved to win.”
Hmm..I always felt each save helped the team win,
but then I’m not too gud with logicification.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hes right btw
Elvis had a better WAR than Bailey and if you take Bailey off of the A’s I don’t think that much changes, but if you take Andrus off of the rangers their defense returns to the suckfest it was.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
What?
You don’t think Michael Young can hack it? What are you, an educated fan or something?
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 17, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
Not really
A decent part of Bailey’s value came from not giving up many hits. One of the main reasons he didn’t give up many hits is because he had a low line drive rate. Fangraph’s WAR gives Bailey no credit for inducing easily fieldable balls in play—something that clearly has value and helps a team win.
I think that you miss my point
Bailey wasn’t even the best reliever on his own team. Wuertz (164 tRA+) had a much better tRA than Bailey (154) if you want to look at a stat that includes the ability to induce poor contact.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think I missed your point
Elvis had a better WAR than Bailey
I don’t think this is particularly relevant to which player helped his team more in 2009.
As for Wuertz, there were enough leveraged innings for both him and Bailey to have significant impacts on the A’s season.
Anderson had a higher WAR than both of em.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
And WAR is still not a value metric
Anderson really did pitch worse in higher leverage situations, and that affected his team’s chances of winning. WAR ignores this.
I don't know about that --
He gave up a lot of bloop hits and ill-placed grounders in high leverage situations until the ASB, at which point he stopped giving up anything to anyone at any time, buuuuaaaaahaha….
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wait, what?
Are you saying that a player can have value that isn’t included in the WAR number on FanGraphs? That’s un-possible!
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
No, he isn't
He’s saying that WAR isn’t the best measure of how good you actually were last year (as opposed to how talented a baseball player you are). Stats that include context do a better job of determining how well someone played last year. As an example, Mariano Rivera had a better season last year than he would have were he used as a 7th inning guy even though his talent is the same either way. For year-end awards, that is a lot more relevant than for rosterbation, etc.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
It sounds like you're saying WAR
is essentially a predictive stat, not a descriptive stat for the year.
If so, that’s fine, but it’s certainly not how the stat is often represented. The name itself suggests that it’s actually measuring the player’s value for the year in wins. And doesn’t WAR factor in service time? If it seeks to measure talent rather than actual accomplishment, why would it do that?
Seems to me that if people are going to rely so much on WAR as a standard, they need to get it more straight in their heads what it is and what it isn’t. (Or at least get it more straight in my head.)
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I wouldn't go that far
For example, as you say, it is not a rate stat.
What it doesn’t do is look at the context a player performs in (i.e. a bases-loaded walk is the same as a walk, the 9th inning is the same as the 1st inning). The reason is that there really aren’t “clutch” skills that cause players to regularly over perform their season-line in clutch situations. Mariano isn’t a better player because he happens to pitch in the 9th inning than the 7th.
The difference is that the Yankees are better off pitching Mariano in the 9th because he tends to pitch in more important situations. In year-end award voting, at least IMO, this is important. I would rather have Bailey win an award than Weurtz even though Weurtz performed better because Bailey helped the A’s more.
Similarly, Anderson pitched very will (great FIP) but his results were less good (ERA over 4). In talking about how good Anderson is, I would mention his FIP. In deciding whether he deserves an award, though, the fact that he got unlucky/screwed by defense/whatever matters.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Much of this is inaccurate so im going to start a WAR post but let me just start with
War does not factor in service time.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2009 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
I assumed he meant in-season service time
As in if you’ve got 4 WAR/season talent and played half a season you earned 2 WAR.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
right it attempts to measure how much talent was contributed
though I would argue that a FIP based pitching WAR is much less luck based than a wOBA based WAR for hitters because WAR does nothing to correct for luck it just more appropriately values production than OPS BA or other measures of offensive value and UZR similarly doesn’t really “correct” for unlucky bounces etc and has a plenty of statistical noise.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, that is correct.
Bad phrasing on my part to say “service time”. Nevermoor knew what I meant.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Wait, am I missing something?
Isn’t this:
Are you saying that a player can have value that isn’t included in the WAR number on FanGraphs?
basically the same as:
He’s saying that WAR isn’t the best measure of how good you actually were last year (as opposed to how talented a baseball player you are). Stats that include context do a better job of determining how well someone played last year.
Aren’t you and iglew basically agreeing?
Side note: Personally, I find little value in using WAR to evaluate relievers at all. I think if you really wanted one go-to stat for reliever value, WPA/Li is better than WAR.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 17, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't read it that way
I read it as more of an “intangibles” statement. In other words, it isn’t that the player has more value, it’s that he got lucky/unlucky and was leveraged well/poorly.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
To an individual team? yes they can
Hannahan to the A’s is far more valuable than Hannahan if he was on the Mets because the Mets have David Wright and the A’s have a steaming pile of suck at third base.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
I would think the A's would have lost more games without Bailey
because someone else would have to be the closer. Most set up guys can’t hack it at closer, otherwise it wouldn’t be such a hard role to fill.
Andrus might have had a better WAR but Bailey dominated the league and Andrus did not (can a player “dominate” on defense?). Good defense isn’t as sexy as great pitching (or great hitting) either.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Do you have any proof that "most set up guys can't hack it at closer"?
because honestly I think that statement is a crock of bull.
Landon Powell dominated the league in the role of back up catcher, but guess what its just not that valuable. Same with Andrew Bailey’s contribution. Andrus played a more valuable position then Bailey, which is why Wash was right that he was a better pick.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
it's not most valuable rookie is it? it's best overall performance regardless of what team you play for.
At least I thought it was. I know position plays into it but I think it is less important in this award. Obviously others think differently but the voters didn’t.
Regarding set up men as closers, Arthur Rhodes and Octovio Dotel come to mind but that is just off the top of my head. Dotel had 1 decent year as a closer in 2003 but that is about it. He was a set up man in Houston from 2001 to 2003 and was very good, except when he pitched in the 9th. We all remember the failed Rhodes experiment in 2004. Those are just two guys and maybe they just aren’t very good in whatever situation they pitched in.
I also kind of think of Scott Shields but perhaps he was just blocked by Troy Percivel and K-Rod.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
DFA, you'll be so pleased to know
that I (sorry, AN) voted Andrus 1, Bailey & Anderson 2-3 (can’t remember which order), based on Andrus’ contribution coming in the context of playing every day at a key position.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Then I guess Brett Anderson should have won, right Wash?
He was worth the most wins of any rookie in the league, after all.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Wash is sticking up for his guy.
I can’t fault him for that. That’s what a manager does.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 17, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't have a problem with him sticking up for his player
I just think he was wrong to say Bailey didn’t do much to help his team win.
Yes, Ron, you're biased... VERY biased.
ROY is all about the individual. NOT the team, and NOT value to the team.
Every hitter likes fastballs, just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's what it feels like when Nolan Ryan's thrown balls by you. ~Reggie Jackson
All I have to say
Is that I’m very happy for Andrew. He proved to be a gem this year, and is very deserving of the honor IMO.
@worldblee on Twitter.
What do you think
could be obtained in an Andrew Bailey trade? With their back of the bullpen woes, the Phillies may be willing to give up Chase Utley for him. I personally would do this deal straight up, however, another piece may need to be added – perhaps a Kyle Kendrick or some mid-level prospect.
by ErikFanClubPres on Nov 17, 2009 10:00 PM PST reply actions
Pujols.
Straight up. Although the Cards might need to throw Carpenter in there.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
How about Jeter
for Bailey and Europe?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'M KEEPING GREECE!!!!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 18, 2009 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
Avrai tu l'universo, Resti l'Italia a me!
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
actually, it's really Denmark I want
so you can keep Italy AND Greece!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 18, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
I want turkey and grease
Luckily, I only have to wait one week!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But I'm Hungary now!
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Well, you can be hungary
but you can’t be Nice unless you’re in France!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 19, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
When I read that
I assumed that you meant Bailey’S and Europe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZkllM8znx4)
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