The Art & Science Of Well-Timed Acquisitions And Trades
Here's how a conversation generally goes with a passionate A's fan unclear on the concept:
2008: "We should get J.J. Hardy; he's really good."
"No way -- we'd have to give up so much to get him!!!111"
2009: "We should 'buy low' on J.J. Hardy."
"No way -- now I'm worried that he sucks!!!111"
2008: "We should sign Russell Branyan; he'll be really cheap."
"No way -- he's not that good!!!111"
2009: "We should sign Russell Branyan; he's proven himself now."
"No way -- now he's overvalued!!!111"
"Hasn't proven he's any good yet!!!111"
"On the decline!!!111"
"Too injury prone!!!111"
"Too good; we can't afford him!!!111"
"Not good enough; we don't want him!!!111"
Thing is...If you stay away from players who just showed how bad they can be, and stay away from players who might have just shown the best they'll ever show, stay away from players who are risks for decline and injury, and don't even think about those really pricey players who are good, established, healthy, and in their prime...Who exactly is left?
This Winter's free agent market features the usual blend of all of the above. Marco Scutaro and Russell Branyan will probably never duplicate the seasons they just had, Miguel Tejada has been declining ever since whatever birthday he had 3 years ago, Ben Sheets and Justin Duchscherer are two of the finest starters who rarely actually pitch, and they certainly never pitch to Nick Johnson, and so on.
The A's current roster has these components as well. You could "sell high" on Rajai Davis and risk trading away one of the few players who actually played well last year -- well at a position where defense is especially important and the dropoff defensively on the current "CF depth chart" is significant. You could trade Travis Buck and/or Daric Barton because they've shown the potential not to be the answer, but then you have to trade them for "might not be the answer" value -- as happened with Sean Gallagher and more recently with Hardy.
The potential trade market is similar too. You could get Garret Atkins for fairly little, but fairly little is what you'll probably get from Garret Atkins. You could roll the dice on the potential hitting prowess of a "major league ready" young slugger like Mat Gamel or Jake Fox, giving up defense for players whose offensive abilities are still unknown. You could hope that Jed Lowrie is as good as he was when he was healthy and is as healthy as he was when he was good, and have two shots at getting burned.
So who might be just good enough to help and just old, young, brittle, or unproven enough to be affordable?
Among free agents, I like Troy Glaus because he's a masher who could provide some insurance at 3B and 1B, while primarily serving as DH (and yes, that means you might see Jack Cust with a glove). The downside is that Glaus is a "triple-threat": He could be declining, he could be injured, and he could be not worth it by way of making Cust field. So it's far from a slam dunk.
Among trade targets, I like Chase Headley because the upside is substantial but he hasn't broken out to where his trade value is through the roof. He also slugged under .400 last season. See? The very reason he might be attainable is also the reason he might be no better than the guys we have (Buck, Cunningham, Barton...). Given that 2009 was not kind to Headley, I wonder what his asking price is for the rebuilding Padres. (Do they know they're rebuilding? If not, someone really should tell them.)
I like Todd Frazier (Reds) because I think he can hit and he is still only a prospect so the asking price shouldn't be outrageous. He also has exactly zero major league hits, walks, and HRs, so it might be a bit early to build the franchise around him.
I also like Shin-Soo Choo because he's really good -- yet the Indians, having recently lost CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee, really should be setting their sights on rebuliding their pitching and Choo might be just "not Grady Sizemore or Asdrubal Cabrera" enough to be considered tradeable. Maybe it's because he plays in Cleveland, but Choo strikes me as a real "under the radar" player -- a guy you think is "pretty good" until you actually look at the numbers and realize no, he's "very good." I wonder what the Indians would ask for in return.
I also wonder where my pants are. Curse you, Sunday morning!
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Was the doctor on the right about to cut some potential losses?
or remove an “organ” from the team body and sell it?
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
He is about to extract a piano to put in the ER break room
The patient is an organ donor.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Like my dad always says
“What’s better than a rose on a piano?”
“Tulips on my organ.”
And yes, I’ve waited two or so years for the right time to use that.
What’s that? I’m banned? Sigh.
Well before I go, this acquisition thing isn’t so hard. Stick with guys with great hair and cool surnames, and you’ve got yourself a contender.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 15, 2009 9:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Coco Crisp!!!111
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
Esteban Ochocinco!!!!
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 15, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
buzzzzzzz, WRONG!!!111
your exclamation marks are all discombobulated.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Milton Bradley!!!111
The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby
Randy Johnson!!!111
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Josh. Towers.
I’m riding this train to the end of the line.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
I'll take Tejada to play 3B, or SS, or DH;
and re-sign Duke to an 2yr incentive laden deal…
The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby
DH? The A's have plenty of internal options, or cheap external options at their disposal
That are better offensive players all over the place. Tejada still has defensive value, whether at SS or 3B. Signing him to DH would be silly.
If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.
Signing Tejada to DH would mean either Cust playing OF
or downgrading at DH. Neither makes sense to me. Tejada playing 3B makes sense, assuming he can do it (I’m always skeptical of guys playing positions for the first time on the basis of “they should be able to” — but I’d also say Tejada is a great candidate for a pretty seamless transition).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
never mind, I checked, and it doesn't look like he did
that being said, I could see him being able to adequately play at 3B on a backup basis – especially if he gets a chance to practice a bit there before the season begins – as well as being a backup SS, bench bat, and occasional DH. The question reallly is whether he’d be willing to do it, and whether he’s still got enough left offensively for such a role.
thats the crazy thing
MIGUEL TEJADA HAS NEVER EVER EVER APPEARED IN A GAME OTHER THAN AT SS OR DH.
Sorry it needed to be in caps, people for some insane reason think his horrible SS defense will be less horrible at 3B for some reason even though he’s never played there before. The reality he’s not going to turn into a plus defender there at age 36-41 or whatever he is, what’s the point of signing Miggy to block Wallace if their defense isnt going to be that much different?
excuse me, why did this need to be in caps?
and who said they expected Tejada to turn into a plus defender at 3B? I certainly haven’t said that, and I haven’t seen anyone else say that here.
Many baseball people have asserted that it would be less of a stretch for a shortstop to convert to 3B than, say, a second baseman. We saw that Kennedy was shifted in the middle of last season from 2B to starting 3B. He himself acknowledged that his performance there wasn’t great. There are indications that the A’s might be considering re-signing Kennedy. If they do he is likely to begin the season as the everyday 3B. (unless you think Chavez will actually be able to do it? or that they will start Wallace there to begin the season?)
I merely pointed out that Tejada might be reasonable as a backup (or would BACKUP be clearer?) 3B and SS, as well as a bench bat and occasional DH, providing that he still has enough offensively left….and I’m certainly not the only person who has written about this (nor is AN the only place where this has come up).
The question in your subject line
is answered by the last sentence in your post.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
maybe, maybe not...
by the way, one point against the A’s being inclined to sign Tejada is that he was classified as a Type A free agent.
Yeah but odds of him being offered arbitration are slim
The Astros are moving on without him.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Miguel Tejada's defense at short is not "horrible"
“Bad” is supportable. “Horrible” is not. He has a large track record in UZR and comes out at about -5 runs a season.
If he can adjust well to third base, he could easily be average or better there. And even the worst case scenario (that he’s no better there than at short) isn’t THAT bad.
Disclaimer: This is factual background, not an argument for or against signing a particular player.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
He has played 3b in winter league. Please know WTF you are talking about. Thanks.
and it really isn’t insane to think that moving down the defensive spectrum will improve his defense relative to less skilled peers nor is it insane to believe that eliminating the need for lateral range which has been Tejada’s biggest weakness at SS would improve his defensive play.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 15, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
OBTW, Nico has been promoting Glaus for some time now;
and I sure like the idea with him or Tejada on board to serve as the veteran leader…
Hopefully, it doesn’t turn into a Giambi case! (magagerial clash with Geren situation)
Beane will probably go with Kennedy! :(
The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby
My only hesitation is that in order for signing Glaus to make sense
you have to be willing to play Cust in the OF. Now a Cust/Hairston platoon, or a Cust/Cunningham platoon, works fine for me to get the offensive gains. But some may convulse at the notion of seeing Cust and a glove together.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Cust
There’s a guy I should have asked to donate a glove.
Have a glove you could spare for a good cause? If so please let me know
(Cust in OF) I personally don't mind it, but
I haven’’t looked to hard at the baseball stats to break it down…
I am looking for a huge season from Scott Hairston! You heard it here first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby
I certainly think he'll be better than he showed this year
and he does provide 20+HR power per 162 games.
Two realities get in the way, though: He has consistent track records of not staying healthy and of not hitting RHP very well, and those are two big strikes against him. To me, he’s a platoon player on a good team and an every day player on a mediocre team.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
...and for the A's that means....
no real chance of Buck making the opening day 25.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I predict Buck will be dealt this Winter
Just a hunch. (No inside info.)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Would not surprise me, either.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
Remember when people were worried about his service clock?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
LOL! Yeah, really.
The least of his worries now, most likely.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
Buck has 3 good months to start
and never lived up to those months again. He’s a failed prospect at this point, trade his ass for an A-ball player.
You know who else has only had 3 good months?
One rhymes with Stiff Kennington and the other with Taj Mavis.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
ZOMG RAJ JUST NEVER GOT CONSISTENT PLAYING TIME!!!1!!!1!!!11one!!
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
You have that backwards
Raj had three good months, his last 3 months incidentally.
Pennington you can’t even rate here because there is nothing to go on besides 3 months, so your point is moot on both sides.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Stiff Kennington
Porn Star Extraordinaire.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
I approve of this message.
I don’t understand how we deny him of playing time all year for no good reason, and then don’t trade him.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
"Just a hunch." {Or did you mean lunch?}
“What are you talking about?”……..

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Would not surprise me at all.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
I don't see Glaus being any more useful than Nomar last year unless he can really play 3B.
I don’t have any reason to think he can play there. The Cardinals certainly didn’t think he could. A’s have more pressing needs than a platoon partner for Barton and Cust.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Well, some ways I could see him being better than Nomar last year:
1. He could play 130-150 games (if he DHs I think that’s perfectly possible).
2. He could hit 25-30 HRs (per 162 games).
3. He is 3 years younger, and the difference between 33 and 36 is a lot when looking at injury/decline.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and he can hit 30 HR's.
and he’s an ex-angel.
and he can hit 30 HR’s.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Ah. So you want him at DH?
That means either playing Cust in the OF and benching someone, presumably Hairston initially, or not keeping Cust.
Glaus has a career .367 wOBA, making him about the same as Cust (.363) as a hitter, but then you’re putting up with Jack’s defensive stylings (-12 UZR/150 career). That seems inefficient somehow. If you want to get rid of Cust, then you’re getting someone with a much worse health record.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
I don't want to get rid of Cust
I see Glaus as potentially being a DH, with Cust/Hairston platooning in LF, Davis in CF, Sweeney in RF, Cunningham maybe your 5th OF. Cust/Hairston is a slightly better offensive player than Cust and a slightly better defensive player than Cust.
Then if/when your 3Bman goes down then you can slot Glaus in for a time, which improves the rest of your defense (by moving Cust to DH) without losing offense. Or if Barton bombs, you can slot Glaus in at 1B, which again improves the rest of your defense without losing offense.
It’s not a slam dunk, “we should do this!” but I could see it making sense. And Glaus is a CA dude who might actually want to sign with Oakland.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Who is this 3B who is going down? Chavez? He's already down.
And he can’t get up.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
If I were handicapping Oakland's Opening Day 3Bman
from most to least likely right now, I’d go:
Chavez
Kennedy
Wallace
Now who will be there in May? For Game 2?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd be OK just going with Wallace from the start.
He’ll end up there eventually anyway. If they want a stopgap, I’d get whomever I could get for under $2M. Jamey Carroll? Craig Counsell? Kennedy?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
I just don't want him to be a super 2
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
Well if he were a Super 2, then that would mean he was good.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Damn you and your logic!
I retract my statement. But, I don’t want to get my hopes up that we may have a good 3b again.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
I really don't get the Jamey Carroll thing
He slugs worse than Pennington. If the A’s wanted to go that direction, and give up on getting any offense from the left side of the infield, they should have hung onto Hannahan.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Carroll can play SS though, unlike John Joseph II
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, as a utility player he's fine
But then Kennedy is totally obsolete and you need an actual starting 3Bman until Wallace is up. I hope the A’s won’t sign both Kennedy and Carroll, and I’d be fine if they signed neither.
If they sign one or the other, I just kind of shrug my shoulders since your utility INF who is mostly a “veteran presence and only plays a lot because your team needs him to which means you suck” isn’t really a huge part of the puzzle.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Which is why I'd pick the cheapest one.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
If we're really resigned to suck until 2011...
…which I’ve never been totally convinced is either a good idea or is even going to happen… then I’d be ok with having a “filler” player like Kennedy for all or part of 2010, but then we better be damn sure that 3B is covered well for 2011. Whether that be Wallace or someone else.
Barring some kind of reasonable certainty, then we should be looking for a real 3B, sooner rather than later, instead. Again, whether that be Wallace or someone else…
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
Or they could trade Wallace for a more conventional 3B
Lonnie Chisenhall? Josh Bell? Josh Vitters?
I think I’d rather stick with Wallace.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
The fact that the A's have potential needs at 1B and DH
means that Wallace is probably worth more to them than to most potential trading partners. Certainly more than the Cubs, Orioles or Indians (the current homes of the above-mentioned three).
Also, in an unrelated observation, Josh Vitters sucks.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Unfortunately,
John Joseph III can’t even play OF.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
But his Christmas Mass was awesome.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know
His rendition is not how I remember the scene on the lawn.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The Jack on the lawn was
John Joseph IV, not John Joseph III. I’m not sure who John Joseph II is.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
John Joseph III's son.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
John Jacob Jingleheymersmith?
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
Is it -smith now?
When I was a kid it was “Jingleheimerschmidt”.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
It's Michael Ynoa too
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Tomatoes, tahmahtoes.
I have no clue, I haven’t sung that song in 15 years.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
I started singing it once
but I never made it to the end.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Did this situation involve a contraceptive and a time machine?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Doesn't every situation?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Indeed it did
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Am I really the only person here who is
fine with Kennedy as a stopgap measure?
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Probably.
As a 3Bman he offers below average defense, and a track record that suggests an “ok” bat lacking the power you’d ideally hope to get from your 3Bman — especially if he doesn’t field all that well.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I hear BroCro is available.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
I would rather have Crosby to Kennedy
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 15, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
I would rather have Crosby.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 15, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
I would rather
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I hit cancel when i realized that I wasn't really replying to the correct comment
it didn’t show up as posted until the second one got posted.
< Submits myself for ritual flogging >
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 15, 2009 6:32 PM PST up reply actions
My computer does that stuff all the time
It refuses to let me post, and then when I try again and it lets me it informs me, “Oh by the way I did let you post before.” Then it laughs and high-fives the microwave.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I thought you were going to say
your computer ritually flogs you all the time.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
I don't get the impression there's that much ritual involved
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Depends on how we're defining ritual
Your nightly flogging, for instance, is part of your nightly ritual. Your morning flogging is more random and, therefore, less ritualistic.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Now I am confused
Bobby Crosby stinks on ice and there is no reason at all for anyone to prefer him.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
In descending order of preference:
Ed
David
Blake
Bobby
Blake only ahead of Bobby because at least he’s comically bad.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Bing was violent with his family
Yeah, still prefer him to Bobby.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Pffft....
Hell the only Crosby I would prefer less is Cathy Lee.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Bing was violent with his family
Yeah, still prefer him to Bobby.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He did not field all that well
since he has not played 3rd base until this season I am giving him a pass on his D. He’s at least an average hitter which is more that can be said of any other 3B we’ve had in the last 4 years.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Kennedy has a career slash line of
.277/.330/.391. I don’t know if you can say “He’s at least an average hitter.” I do think you can say, “If my 3Bman is at BEST an average hitter and should never be seen in the 3-6 spots in the order, then he at least better be a good fielder.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'll give you that
but give him an offseason working at the position and see what happens. Hell even Scott Hatteberg turned into a passable defensive 1B, with marginal power. And 3B is a more demanding fielding position.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I don't think you supported your point
It’s less likely a player can master a more demanding defensive position than an easy one. And Hatteberg was a better hitter than Kennedy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm not going to disagree with you on Hatte
I’ve always been a big Scott Hatteberg guy, but, his numbers aren’t overwhelmingly better than Kennedys over a career .273/.361/.410 btw, not exceptional for a IB/DH at any level). Granted Kennedy has never really been known for his bat, but I am saying that give me an Adam Kennedy working an entire offseason to prepare for a season starting at 3B and I’ll show you an acceptable stopgap for half a Major League season. And you wont break the bank signing an uncertainty like Troy Glaus.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Well, I wouldn't sign Glaus to play 3B anyway
I’d sign him to DH and to play 3B/1B if or as needed.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would hope not
I don’t know why he was even mentioned to play 3B.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Because he's been a pretty good one,
and 3B is the black hole of suckitude for our lovable Muppets.
If Glaus could play 3B, and allow Cust to DH, it would fantabulous. And for all I know, he will be able to; I’m just not banking on it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and if Holliday, Giambi, OCab
and Nomar didnt absolutely suck for most of 2009…
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
if you fail, try try again.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
Depends what you mean.
I’m fine with Kennedy as a stopgap measure in the sense that I think he’ll be bad but what the heck if we’re bad it’s not the end of the world so whatever. But not in the sense that I think it’s actually a strong move.
Also it’s far more entertaining when you sign someone who is supposed to be bad but he finds the pixie dust and is actually good (Davis) than it is to sign guys who were supposed to be good but actually they suck (Giambi, Nomar).
That’s not to say you should intentionally sign guys who are supposed to suck, of course, but it’s a reason to not mind Kennedy so much. Particularly in contrast to some non-sure thing like, say, Glaus.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Oh its not a Contenders move by any stretch
but if we had any reasonable option, aside from Chavez’ health and Wallace’s youth and inexperience, there isn’t a better option until we know for sure. If Chavez can actually play 3rd and he is still a stopgap for Wallace, Kennedy is an good enough option. If that works out he becomes a either super utility player or gets released or traded at the deadline.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Depends on the real future of 3rd base
If we’re really expecting Wallace to play third (or someone else internally) in the next year, then yes, it makes a certain sense. If Wallace really isn’t sticking at the third, then we’re waiting yet another year (after waiting 2 or 3 years) to actually fill the position with someone who should actually be there instead of dealing with the problem. In which case, Kennedy is a bad move as a stopgap to nothing.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
At the very least, the A's need to recognize
that this is an unknown. There is no certainty that Wallace will be the answer, even if the A’s believe, with more reason to believe, than some of AN do.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think, whatever you consider the likelihood of him actually sticking there,
or being in any way non-terrible there, the A’s are going to give him a chance to show it, for better or for worse.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Probably
But I’d really hope they’d only commit to that if a more surer thing can’t be found over the off-season even if that means using an even uglier stopgap.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
His name is Jamey Carroll.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Jamey Carroll is indeed quite ugly
and not just in the baseball sense.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Given that we know these three things about him,
I’m assuming he got beat up a lot in school:
1. He’s ugly
2. He’s weak
3. His name is Jamey
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The A's have reportedly shown interest in him
Why, no one is quite sure.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
wasn't there talk about Jamey Wright last year, too?
maybe it’s a thing
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
That players named Jamey suck?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and Beane feels sorry for them
hey, he’s not a heartless computer!
is he?
oh God, the crushing burden of realisation
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Ooh. Ruff.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
better than porn star bredan ryan!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, I hope you're right
I must admit, I’d not be surprised if they gave him a pair of speedos and tossed him in the pool, so to speak
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
Too many questions
not enough answers. Of course answers are a prison to oneself anyways.
Maybe iit’s time we all swallow the fact that Chavez will never play 3B again, then we need to move to certainty that Wallace will be able to take over at some point this season.
Yes, Kennedy as a 1-3 year fill in is not a vaild option.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Honestly (not directed at you), I think it's foolish
to “swallow the fact that Chavez will never play 3B again.” He’s:
1. under contract for 2010
2. planning to try to be ready for Opening Day, 2010
3. our most likely Opening Day 3Bman at the moment
Having a Plan B is a splendoriffic idea. Not recognizing that he’s the initial Plan A for one more year is like refusing to acknowledge that Pennington is a switch hitter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm just burnt out on the
Eric Chavez Health and Fitness Program. If he can play, then great, problem solved…but what if he can’t?
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Then Plan B
Or likely, IMO, both. I believe Chavez will be the Opening Day 3Bman. I also believe someone else will be at 3B by mid-May.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Agreed
his name is Adam Kennedy.
I know that’s NOT who you are thinking of! ;)
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Honestly (directed partially at you because you said it), I think it would be foolish
to continue the “Chavez as plan A” plan anymore regardless of 1 & 2. In fact, it’s been foolish for the last two years. Plan A absolutely needs to be someone NOT named Chavez. Chavez can be plan B or C, but he’s in no position to be counted on in any sense and any GM who think #3 should be fired, Beane included.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
I don't think you're grasping the concept of "Plan A"
Plan A isn’t the likeliest one, it’s the best-case scenario one. Best-case scenario is that the guy you’re paying millions to anyway, who happens to be your most accomplished option by far, can go.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and my point...
is that until he proves himself healthy he should not be considered Plan A. Maybe Plan R, but that’s another movie.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Oh, I get the idea of best case scenario
But really, best case scenario you get A-Rod from the Yankees with his salary covered AND for no prospects. Incidentally, that has about as good a chance of happening as Chavez playing third again.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
I think he CAN play 3rd again
maybe he’ll get that Adrian Beltre Contract year-its and really wake the f up!!!
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
We disagree on the definition of "Plan A", then.
“Plan A” is the best AND most likely to actually happen. Chavez will… most likely… be an utter fail at the likely to happen part.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
Huh?
So what happens if the best plan is not the most likely to happen? Does that mean there is no such thing as Plan A? Do the plans start from Plan B? Do you number them instead?
Semantic tussles are typically pointless, but this one really takes the cake.
[Incidentally, I no longer believe Chavez IS the best option at third base, even stipulating his health. I don’t think he’ll be the defender or the hitter he once was.]
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
I love it when a plan comes together!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 16, 2009 4:55 AM PST up reply actions
Bingo! Give this man a cigar.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
Eric Chavez
Maybe iit’s time we all swallow the fact that Chavez will never play 3B again
I think most of us swallowed that long ago and have pooped it out already.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Nov 15, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Seems like many of us are still holding out hope...
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
or at least just trying to hold it in
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 16, 2009 4:56 AM PST up reply actions
How many Lead Glove awards has he won?
That really should be an award.
If we're going to make signings
I want Sheets and/or Glaus. The former buys time for some of the SP’s that aren’t yet ready (Cahill?) to work that out in AAA, while having the upside of a good/great starter. The latter maybe buys time for Brett Wallace, but more likely just provides somewhat of an offensive upgrade to our ‘power hitter’, while not blocking anyone long term.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
Good points.
If he’s thought to finally be really healthy, Pavano also might be a decent addition without breaking the bank.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes sir...
Pavano, Penny, Duke, or Sheets works for me!
The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby
I like Penny, Duke, or Sheets
Pavano can be decent, but he doesn’t have the absolute stud upside of the other three pitchers. Of course, if he costs less, which means we can sign Glaus or the like, then maybe I like him more…
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
I could see Pavano being a "solid #3"
and with Anderson and Braden perhaps ready to rise to the mantel of #1/#2, adding a veteran who is a solid #3 might be a significant addition. It allows Cahill, Mazzaro, and Gio to fill only 2 slots which is good (because the worst of the three will probably suck the proverbial goat balls).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ya
but I could also see Pavano being a “solid # DL”, a la Yankees years. I know all the other guys are injury risks, but per innings pitched, they will have a lot more value. I guess it depends on who we can get. I would think that Duke would be our best shot.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
If we're looking for a slightly below average innings eater, I'd take Jon Garland
over Pavano. His health record is a lot better.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Yes sir...
The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby
To DLJ, this is kind of the point of this post
The fact Pavano is that risk is why he might be signable. So it’s more about shrewdly assessing his 2010 health than it is about shying away because there’s a potential for disaster.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Can we get someone other than the A's to assess his health?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
For all we know, Angels fans are wondering why
Lackey, Escobar, and Santana all got hurt, along with Shields and Speier. It just doesn’t sting quite as much when you win 97 games anyway.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I am assuming it is because team doctors aren't
as hands on with strength and conditioning.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I understand that
but like i said, unless he’s significantly cheaper than the other three mentioned, I’d rather have a guy with higher upside. I’m not saying not to sign him, just saying that I’d rather have the other three, all things being equal.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
That's a little unfair don't you think?
To the goat I mean….
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Is Nico allowed to discuss goats again now?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Depends on the context
If you give me a specific example, I’ll be happy to ask the judge.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
that prospect scares me
sincerely, the goat
The A's. The SWINGING A's. That's right, the SWINGING A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Nov 15, 2009 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure I've heard a proverb in which goat balls are sucked, either
but then, I had a sheltered upbringing
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does
You don't remember
Joseph And The Goat Of Many Colors?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You don't remember
Joseph And The Goat Of Many Colors?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Proverbs 27:27
And yes, I’m going to hell.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Nice ideas however
Sheets already signed with the Rangers, he’s wetting his pants wanting to play for them, I dont like the odds of him playing anywhere else, if he does play again (there’s a rumor he might be done).
Glaus cant hurt, can stand at 3B and hit HR and get on base, I have no problem with him as a 1 year fill-in.
Like I said
out of the injured/upside four, I think Duke would be the easiest/most realistic to sign. He knows Oakland, and so far I haven’t heard him say he hates it.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
Depression speaks louder than words.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
Clinical depression is not the same thing as "feeling bad because your life sucks"
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Ask your doctor if Abilify is right for you
{may cause vomiting, headaches, dizziness, seizures, death, hives, and the urge to start Bobby Crosby}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ask your doctor if Abilify is right for you
{may cause vomiting, headaches, dizziness, seizures, death, hives, and the urge to start Bobby Crosby}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
side effects may include double posting, sexual nightmares, or brain tooth
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
side effects may include double posting, sexual nightmares, or brain tooth
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
Ask your doctor if Ability is right for you
If yes, you’re not Bobby Crosby
The A's. The SWINGING A's. That's right, the SWINGING A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Nov 15, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
I doubt there's a connection between his clinical depression
and his being on the A’s.
The issue of his history of physical injuries probably is of more concern when the A’s consider whether to sign him. That also may keep other teams from offering too much for him Perhaps a short-term, incentive-laden contract will be what he ends up accepting.
Hmm...Don't know
There’s certainly a connection between my clinical depression and my rooting for the A’s.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And the Rangers have lost money since
Sheets may love to sign with the Rangers, but two problems have arisen since he failed their physical: the Rangers have lost a ton of money, and Sheets has been more severely injured than was thought.
The Rangers may be the favorite to sign him but the status quo has certainly changed.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I am coming around to signing Glaus to a 1 year incentive laden contract
We need to be realistic – I cannot see Chavez contributing anything, and Wallace likely won’t be ready until mid season. Glaus would provide some much needed power and wouldn’t force Cust into the field, assuming the usual Chavez injury.
and if he breaks, it's only money!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
for Chavez or Glaus?
:)
The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby
Scott Hairston.
Oops.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
How convinced are you that Glaus can actually play 3B?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Personally, I suspect he can play it
as a stopgap/bridge between, say, Chavez (April) and Wallace (June) but that he can’t play it regularly for 1/2 a season without likely going the Nomar/Giambi route of “less was more and you asked for more so you got less.” Who’s Les?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Nessman?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Somebody buy that man a door!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 15, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
Im really not which DQs him in my book
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Nov 15, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
He had a +5 UZR/150 in his last full season in 2008
I am not sure how much his injury has effected his fielding but I think he could at least be ok as a stop gap if/when Chavez gets injured. I think Glaus playing 1B and OF last year probably had more to do with DeRosa than the Cardinals thinking he could play a passable third.
Well they acquired DeRosa because Glaus couldn't play 3B.
He started 4 games at 3B in 2009, and was terrible.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
He was initially supposed to be out half the season, but his injury didn't improve
as well as hoped. They got DeRosa mid-season because he wasn’t coming back anytime soon. I don’t see how we can expect him to be anything more than an emergency 3B.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Right, but the point is that
Glaus couldn’t play 3B in 2009 for the same reason he couldn’t play at all — his injury. There’s nothing I’ve seen to suggest that if healthy, Glaus couldn’t play 3B now. But I also wouldn’t try to run him out there 130 times — I think those days for Glaus are over.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd think shoulder injuries would affect throwing more than hitting
It’s like putting Ellis at SS or 3B
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
Oh come on --
What are the odds that if you pencil in a 3Bman who’s been injured, he won’t be able to play and you’ll be totally screwed?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What are the odds of penciling in two 3B who've been injured and
neither will be able to play? I bet no one’s even tried this!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
They could platoon!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The DL has a platoon?
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
Not yet. We're thinking outside the box.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
our DL is beyond a platoon
it’s a full strength company
The A's. The SWINGING A's. That's right, the SWINGING A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Nov 15, 2009 8:17 PM PST up reply actions
Ironically, one without health benefits.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
HOW CAN YOU JUST SAY THAT A GUY CAN PLAY A POSITION PASSABLY
THAT ISN’T THE POSITION HE’S BEEN PLAYING?????22222222
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 15, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Because all of this Bill James defensive spectrum BS is a lie,
and all defenders are truly interchangable!
Just stick Cust at third already!
Errors, schmerrors! A real player will hit a home run in his next at-bat to make up for an error!
Just feed ’em some tin cans and put ’em on the field!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 15, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
If they're going to use Wallace at 3B, I wouldn't even mind getting someone like Augie
Ojeda at SS. If he’s really a +10 defender (UZR is +11 in 154 games), then I’d take a -20 offensive player there. The catch is, of course, that he might be even worse than a -20, but I doubt he’d cost much to find out. For those into positional adjustments:
Defense: +10
Offense: -20
Position: +12
Total: +2
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:31 AM PST reply actions
On paper, Ojeda looks a lot like Pennington
Why not just run with Pennington for league minimum and not give up a player to get Ojeda?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Because a GB and lefty staff makes SS defense more important than on an average team.
They need a utility guy in addition, anyway and I can see Pennington, and later Cardenas, being that.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
I guess if Ojeda is that much better than Pennington
I can see Pennington being a very good defensive SS next year. I can’t see him likely batting better than .230/.300/.350, which is why I’m not all that high on him, but defensively I saw enough good things to think he can be above average for a full season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
UZR has Pennington at -7/150 last year.
He’d have to improve a lot just to become average. He probably is a lot better than Ojeda at the plate though.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
I think a lot of Pennington's shortcomings last year
came in bursts of suckitude that compromised his numbers. I thought that 90% of the time he played a well above average SS and that the other 10% is reasonably likely to decrease with more experience/comfort — similar to what we saw from Rajai Davis this season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hmmm... so you think he can be a +5 or so?
If so then he’d be a good overall SS, because he can definitely be average offensively for the position. Still something like Buck for Ojeda or some other strong defender at SS might be an OK idea, in case Clifton still sucks defensively.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
I think he can
But I don’t know he can. I guess with Ojeda, you have that as a track record.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Miguel Cabrerra
According to Boston.com, Miguel Cabrerra might be available for the right asking price. That’s 22mil/year through 2015. I know that’s a third of our payroll, but that’s Pujos offensive talent at first or DH for 5 years. What does the community think? What do you think it would take to get him, and can we pull it off without giving up Wallce, Carter, Anderson and Cahill?
Hmmmmmm......
Actually, it would probably take Wallace, Carter, Anderson, and Cahill to get him.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
I don't think it would take that, given that he's making $22M/year.
In fact, if they would take Bonderman or Dontrelle too, they could probably have him for something like Doolittle, Demel and Simmons.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Not a chance in hell...
That would be giving away one of the top hitters in baseball. Not gonna happen.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
What do you see Boston giving up for him?
Maybe Kalish, Tazawa and Bowden?
What if they took back Bonderman/Dontrelle? Kalish and Rizzo? Maybe Anderson instead of Rizzo?
Does anyone think Boston is giving up Westmoreland or Kelly?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
i don't know enough about Boston's system...
But just because Detroit might trade him doesn’t mean they’re looking to dump him for nothing. Look at what Haren got for the A’s. Granted Haren’s contract was more affordable, but still…
You’d be looking at 3 of a team’s top 5 prospects… at least.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Talent is irrelevant
Contract is everything. Cabrera’s contract is already paying him to be what he is. If anything, he’s probably OVERpaid by it, because a decline phase is likely at the end.
Maybe someone will be dumb enough to trade talent for Cabrera, but it won’t be Oakland— and that’s a damn good thing.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly...
No team will give up talent… Detroit will require talent in return.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
I would offer Cahill+Wallace for Mig-Cab
We get the 3rd best hitter in baseball and a near-lock for the HOF. Stick him at 1B and we have guaranteed offense, something we’ve never had before. You trade Wallace for Cabrera without thinking, Cahill seals the deal and luckily we have enough internal depth to cover losing him.
But thats dreaming, I know it, PT knows it and already told me in another thread.
How do you figure Cabrera as the 3rd best hitter in baseball?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
If you're using wOBA,
he comes in at a cool 15th in baseball over the last 3 years.
If (perish the thought) one were actually to take defense and position into account, as WAR does, he comes in 20th.
Star player, sure, but he’s being paid like one.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
And he has a track record of being a drunken idiot...
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 15, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
Well, look closely enough and I suspect you'll find most athletes
or, indeed, most males have a track record of being drunken idiots…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
That's sexist!
Most females do too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah, but when
males are drunken idiots it results in destruction of property and bodily injury to innocent bystanders. Whereas when females are drunken idiots, it results in entertaining images posted to the Internet. Which one do you like better?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
No, when females are drunken idiots
it results in giving birth 9 months later. And half the time they give birth to males. See the problem?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You hate competition.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
why would I take defense and position into account when i specifically say “best HITTER” in baseball?
Well, the concept of "who is the best hitter" is, ultimately, meaningless trivia
because it is only loosely related to who the best player is.
However, as I pointed out, even if you restrict it to offense, he’s not even close to top 3.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
The difference is Haren was a $20M player making $6M for two more years.
Cabrera is a $20M player making $20M. The extra $28M in surplus value buys a lotta prospects.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Shouldn't
He’s being paid basically what he’s worth on the open market. Ergo, it shouldn’t take ANYTHING to get him.
Any team that attempts to trade for Cabrera will be paying a “saving Dave Dombrowski’s ass/job” premium. Personally, I’m not too thrilled with that prospect.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Well this would be true if the objective was to maximize surplus contract value, and
you were indifferent to wins. In real life a $20M player making $20M is worth more than a $500K player making $500K. And rightly so.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Again, the only reason why that is so is publicity
It wouldn’t sound good to trade Miguel Cabrera for Cliff Pennington.
When the spotlight is off, GMs behave as though win value is completely linear.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
They might behave that way, but they shouldn't.
A $20M player takes up one roster spot and one lineup spot. To get $20M in value from 5 players takes up 5 roster spots. I guess the downside is that one player getting injured is more likely than 5, but that logic leads to signing Esteban Loaiza and Mark Kotsay and Jason Kendall and Mike Piazza instead of just Alex Rodriguez or Ichiro Suzuki.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 15, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
If you want someone to explain WHY that happens,
you need a behavioral economist, and I’m not one, so…
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
This is exactly right.
I’ve noticed that since it has become popular to evaluate players by simply matching WAR value to salary, many have neglected to factor in the value of a roster spot.
To take it to the extreme, the standard lazy method assumes that the $20M player is equivalent to 40 guys worth $500K of WAR each. But sign those 40 guys and you’ve filled your roster, and half of them won’t get any playing time.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
and you're not getting additional WAR from any other roster spot
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
Of course it reduces to absurdity at the extremes
There are plenty of mathematical functions which do bizarre, insane things at the extremes, yet look very linear for what are, in reality, the relevant sections.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 15, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
In this case I'm not sure so it's a flaw to view this in an extreme like this
so much as supporting a point that consolidating WAR in a single roster spot has more value than spreading it out amongst many spots, if only because it gives you an opportunity to fill those unused spots with better players. (i.e. having a 5 WAR player is better than replacing him with 5 one-WAR players since you have the potential to have the 5 WAR player and 4 one or better WAR players). How much value likely depends on just how good that individual player is relative to who’d be replacing him, but at the very least “some”.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
OK, so we know that the value of concentrating WAR is:
1. not zero,
2. not large enough to make GMs take serious notice.
That’s a pretty small range actually.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
It would have to be pretty small
if GMs don’t take particular notice. So, yeah, ultimately in a more practical discussion, while it may be there, it’s not likely to be particularly relevant.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
I'm not sure why you're resisting this
I thought you were the one who not so long ago made the case so eloquently for the value of concentrating WAR.
Perhaps it was someone else and I’m remembering wrong.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
It might have been me
If so, I’ve had a conversion experience. Or else was just arguing the devil’s advocate position at the time. Or was just dicking around.
Or something.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
You don't need to go to the extremes to make the argument
Sticking with position players, you can only have 9 guys in the line-up at a time. Therefore if you have the overall payroll flexibility to afford a $22 million annual contract AND the roster depth to fill the other 8 spots in the line-up with better than replacement level players then it makes sense to spend the money if you expect to at least break even in the transaction.
There is nothing wrong with getting what you pay for.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 15, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Could you repeat that last line to the lady I was with last night?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Maybe she was using a different exchange rate?
Thus the lack satisfaction.
The monster at the end of this blog.
My rate of exchange is really none of your business.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
When she called and said "come quickly!"
apparently I misunderstood.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OK, but the proffered trade
involved not merely the expenditure of $22M a season, but also the expenditure of prospects with a huge projected surplus value on top of that.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Which is why I'm not in favor of trading for Cabrera
The A’s might might be able to handle the money end of the equation but I doubt they’d be able to field the rest of the roster.
Your argument that talent is irrelevant and the contract everything; that the A’s should be able to swap Moneypenny straight up for Cabrera based on… not sure how to phrase this… $$$/WAR efficiency is what brings me into this mix.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I have to say, I find it more than a little weird to find myself
on the classical-economics-rational-actors-yay side of this argument. Normally I take a hatchet to those positions.
But I don’t really see the justification for it here.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
The justification does not exist for Oakland in this case
As an overall concept (justifying paying full value for 5 WAR) there are times when it makes sense.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Hold on
I didn’t say paying full (that is to say, market-rate) value for 5 WAR is a bad idea. As between paying that and paying 5 free agents to be 1 WAR, I totally and completely endorse the 5 WAR guy, because he’s so much less likely to break down and become useless.
What I said was paying MORE than full value is a bad idea.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
And I agree
Paying $20 for a $15 item is dumb.
But you seemed to be arguing that the A’s shouldn’t have to part with any players to acquire Cabrera because they’d be paying for it just by taking on his full contract. Which would certainly help Detroit’s finances, but they’d probably rather the A’s took Mags under those terms.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Is this why we routinely see teams "give" away players for nothing in return?
Oh, wait…
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
I have Alex Rios on line one, and Esteban Loaiza on line two
The phones are ringing off the hook!
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
Key word: "routinely"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/routine
1 a : a regular course of procedure
1 b : habitual or mechanical performance of an established procedure
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983



