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"Manager Of The Year" -- Not For Whom To Vote, But How?

There are two things we could do today that we won't do -- three if you include doing the dishes -- and they are to debate whether managers are important, i.e., impactful enough to be worth analyzing, and to debate who should win the coveted "The votes for these awards are always made by the wrong people for the wrong reasons" award for 2009.

If you find yourself venturing into either of these two conversations, then you have to do the dishes and make it a trifecta. Today we're going to look at the "how" -- if intelligent people voted intelligently (sorry, Rafael Palmeiro: NO GOLD GLOVE FOR YOU!), what would form the basis for assessing the Manager of the Year?

Star-divide

The dilemma, conundrum if you will (dilemma if you won't), starts with the fact that managing involves several distinct aspects, most of which are not subject to much concrete or tangible assessment. One is "leadership," another "getting the most out of the team you have," a third "tactical decisions." Managers also communicate with players and the media, convey expectations and enforce limits on and off the field, oversee a group of coaches who serve as important instructors and mentors, and occasionally help the team balance baseball with real life distractions such as sudden tragedy, ill-timed drug suspension, or Milton Bradley.

So in 2009, the Angels were projected to win around 86-88 games, endured a shocking tragedy 3 days into the season, had 1/2 their rotation on the DL for two months, and won 97 games. The Dodgers lost Manny Ramirez for 1/3 of a season but didn't miss a beat. Those two teams also had a heck of a lot more talent than the Giants or Rangers could muster as competition.

The Rockies went from terrible to terrific right as Clint Hurdle became Jim Tracy. Correlation is not causation, and yet the contrast is also stunning.

Ron Gardenhire's Twins seemed to overachieve, winning a weak but not putrid AL Central with a rotation anchored by Carl Pavano, Brian Duensing, Nick Blackburn, and occasionally something called a "Manship," while Francisco Liriano flopped, Glen Perkins and Kevin Slowey were sloweyed down by injury, and then Morneau went down for the stretch drive while even more troublingly, Nick Punto and Brendan Harris didn't.

So how would you take all the teams, with all their given talent and lack thereof and all the unexpected bumps along the way, look at 30 managers and all that goes into being the captain of a ship with a supporting cast roughly as diverse as the crew on The Love Boat, and pick out your Managers of the Year? A job where what you get out of a team is often mistaken for what you put into it?

Photobucket

 

   {credit: The New Yorker Magazine}


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I think the Manager Of The Year Award should go to

Derek Jeter…..he’s just that awesome!

;’)

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Nov 14, 2009 10:45 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Would not be suprised if he did

Because most people seem to think there’s nothing he can’t do.

by Twan54321 on Nov 14, 2009 11:50 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Would not be suprised if he did

Because most people seem to think there’s nothing he can’t do.

by Twan54321 on Nov 14, 2009 11:52 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Messiah Award?

Tebow or Jeter?

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Nov 15, 2009 6:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeter actually has a higher career WAR than Jesus,

because the latter retired at age 33.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 15, 2009 8:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if I had the vote

NL: Jiim Tracy
AL: Ron Gardenhire

by OaklandSi on Nov 14, 2009 10:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

You must do the dishes and report back when you're done.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 14, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I already did the dishes...

…am I out of the club now?

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor

by Leopold Bloom on Nov 14, 2009 10:51 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Bob Geren!!

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 11:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I like it

hey why not he’s consistent as his A’s either win 75 or 76 games every year.

by sirbed on Nov 14, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

didn't wanna dissapoint anyone!

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 3:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Manager of the Year

I’d give the award to Jim Tracy in the National League and Mike Scioscia in the American League.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Nov 14, 2009 11:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Please go do the dishes and report back when you're done.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 14, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if Derek Jeter ever has to do the dishes at his house?

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Nov 14, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

not tonight

he’s ringside at the Cotto-Pacquaio fight in Vegas

by OaklandSi on Nov 14, 2009 9:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

[Insert name of manager who plays small ball or managed a surprisingly successful team here]

"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond

by hero66 on Nov 14, 2009 7:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Manager of the Year

I’d give the award to Jim Tracy in the National League and Mike Scioscia in the American League.

(RRS was right so I just thought I’d copy him)

by sirbed on Nov 14, 2009 11:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Scioscia's a douche.

We can’t give him anything.

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor

by Leopold Bloom on Nov 14, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Please go do the dishes and report back when you're done.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 14, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Tony La Russa

just because I like the Cardinals.

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 11:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think La Russa is great

but with the way the Rockies turned around under Tracy I just have to give him my vote.

by sirbed on Nov 14, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Please go do the dishes and report back when you're done.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 14, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

DONE.

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bah!

What is a manager good for? Haughtily swinging his codpiece to-and-fro, pacing the dugout like a caged tiger, all the while merrily chanting, “Plip-plop! Plip-plop…”

"When you get that nice celebration coming in the dugout, and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, there's no better feeling than to have that done." -Matt Stairs

by Aufheben on Nov 14, 2009 12:01 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I don't know you, but I like you.

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor

by Leopold Bloom on Nov 14, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't like you, but I know you.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 14, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's noses.

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you can pick your pick, but you can't ax your ax

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I vote for "conundrum".

It’s not a dilemma unless there are two plausible propositions or courses of action that you must choose between.

I do appreciate the pedantic fussiness of “for whom to vote”, though.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 14, 2009 12:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

My Devil's advocate case for Bob Geren

If you take, for a second, that a manager doesn’t add a lot in the way of value to a team actually on the field, allow me to posit the following: the MOTY (as all the kids are calling it) should go to the manager that best fulfills the role that he was hired to do. At the Yankees, for example, this involves sitting on the bench looking vaguely miffed, making sure everyone has shaved and then bringing in Mariano Rivera in the 9th. Genius.

Anyway. Our own beloved Bob Geren, then.

What is the A’s priority at the moment? To bring through some promising young players before they with the World Series in 2012 against the Giants (this will happen, by the by).

So, the A’s needed a manager who wouldn’t moan and mither in the press about his GM taking away his established players, who is willing to play erratic, but talented youngsters over more consistent veterans, and who, above all, is going to act as a shield for these rising superstars, protecting them from the slings and arrows of outrageous Ratto.

In this sense, (and I daresay that his time in AAA has been a help), he’s been great. Aside from some occasional murmurs of discontent coming from veterans not getting what they consider to be their due (Giambi, J, Brown, E, I’m looking at you), he’s held the dressing room together; this is something I don’t consider to be an easy task, given three consecutive seasons of dissapointment.

Secondly, he’s always shown outward support to his young pitching staff, even through their many, many struggles. This might seem a fairly worthless excercise, but thoughout all the games I went to during the season, not once did I hear the crowd booing a starter. Now, you might put this down to other factors – faith in Beane, the seductive nature of hope in the future over the reality of the present, or just no-one turning up – but I don’t think Geren’s role, acting almost as a lighteng rod for fans’ frustrations, should be underestimated.

Also, his post game press conferences are so crushingly dull, win or lose, that reporters seemingly lose the will to live before they’re able to ask pertinent questions about, say, why Tim Trevor Cahill can’t throw strikes.

It could be argued, too, that he’s not had such success with position players, and I guess we’ll see this coming year what happens.

And here we go – I think I’ve happened on a conclusion – the best thing about Geren is that Beane has the confidence in him to be able to bring up a large number of untested players, all around the same time, with the wheels entirely falling off.

Hm, I’m not sure I’ve entirely convinced myself, but still.

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 1:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

He did? I guess I missed that

Still, all the griping has come from the elder statesmen, as far as I remember

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that's not surprising

it’s less risky for them to complain publicly than for the rookies

by OaklandSi on Nov 14, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that's also true

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

MY EYES! MY EYES!

IT BURNS US!

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor

by Leopold Bloom on Nov 14, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that's what I'll be saying during tomorrow's epic clash

between the Raiders and the Chiefs. It might be the greatest game in the histrory of mankind.

I’m having seven friends over and 3 of them are Chiefs fans and I’m expecting to the only one sober after this stinker is done.

by sirbed on Nov 14, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you missed the 49ers - Bears game on thursday, then...

it was like two drunks flailing at each other in a back alley

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

alas

at least that wouid’ve been more entertaining to watch.

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that was quite poor football.

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor

by Leopold Bloom on Nov 14, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

so was the mls playoff game last night

David Beckham’s signing seems to be embarrassing since this was a playoff game, with big market teams, and yet they still couldn’t fill the stadium.

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

they couldn't even keep the lights on!

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i didn't notice

but if it was in Cali…that’s hardly surprising.

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah - this is second hand knowledge, from a friend who was there

but apparently the lights went out twice?

It’s possible he just fell asleep twice, but still

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

oh, the other point I wanted to add to this

Geren has kept his teams playing all season long, even after playoff hopes were long since extinguished. Now, you would think, with the players’ professional pride and all, that this would be a given, but that’s clearly not the case.

Again, something to his credit.

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Though the "not make them play hard" the entire first half

is a big strike against him. He let guys dog it with no consequence for 3 months.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 14, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I don't buy into the 'not trying in the first half' bit as much as you do

Like I say, though, it’s not a watertight case. There are certainly reasons to criticize him

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or his off season seat is rather interesting as well...

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Nov 14, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Is that John C. Reilly?

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor

by Leopold Bloom on Nov 14, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

rush limbaugh?

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 14, 2009 3:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"Mr Cellophane....."

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Nov 14, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, we saw multiple incidences where a player clearly didn't run out a ball

and nothing happened. The shift was when R. Sweeney was benched and from then on there was appropriate follow-through on lack of hustle (Hairston being another example).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 14, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I dunno. I mean, I can recall two or three? Is that more than usual teams?

And isn’t ‘the ability to alter a team and make them play harder by your actions’ a positive thing?

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does

by bobnothing on Nov 14, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

another point in his favor

he’s very tall and imposing when you meet him in person.

I didn’t dare say anything snarky when shaking his hand at the season ticket holders’ event. he looks you straight in the eye. His mouth smiles while his eyes dare you to say something snarky.

(not that anyone here would do anything like that, of course…)

by OaklandSi on Nov 14, 2009 3:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I like it, though it is deeply suppositional...

… and I doubt we could be sure it was true for another year or two, after which we’ll all forget you said it and argue with a whole different set of suppositions. Such is the anaysis of the managerial. I am now off, having completed the dishes early this afternoon, to take a deep suppository to root out all the suppositions.

by paris7 on Nov 14, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oakland A's fan moment during the football season

I have channel 2’s program on one of the Raiders’ championship years…I just heard Bill King calling a great play with his patented “holy Toledo”…just thought I’d share…

by OaklandSi on Nov 14, 2009 4:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Billy Martin...

…seemed to make a difference. More than once… Rangers & A’s… he took horrible losing teams and turned them around into winning teams his first full year with the team. Drastic and remarkable improvement, even. All with essentially the same rosters. (He also burned them out pretty quickly, too, but that’s a different subject)

Yes, he had some good talent in both situations, yet it’s not likely that everybody magically matured at exactly the same time.

So… regarding the argument that managers don’t matter… Billy Martin… exception to the rule, or evidence to the contrary?

Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983

by UncleLeo on Nov 14, 2009 9:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Exception to the rule

Like Youkilis and other outliers. Billy Martin is certainly evidence that a manager can make a difference (positive, negative, or both) but he’s not evidence that a manager will make a difference 99% of the time.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 14, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In a general sense...

…and not including exceptions to the rule like Billy Martin… I view “good managers” as those who simply don’t hinder their team, while “bad managers” tend to make themselves quite evident early and often. There are three aspects to managing that I believe are important…

1) On-field on-game strategic decisions and management.

2) Pre-game preparation, i.e. practice, etc.

3) Clubhouse Nanny, i.e. manage and soothe all the huge player egos.

Only 2 out of 3 is necessary for a guy to be a “good manager”*. Pick two, because you’ll probably never get all three. Mike Scoscia excels at #2, I think. You wouldn’t know by watching this year’s ALCS, but his team is normally very fundamentally sound and prepared. They know their jobs and they execute what they’re supposed to. Joe Torre excels at #3, IMHO, and why he was able to succeed in New York for so long

So, when you’re talking about good managers, and those who might deserve an award, you’re not really talking about “good managers”, but rather “managers who don’t suck”.

  • Good players, too, but this is about what the manager himself can control.

Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983

by UncleLeo on Nov 14, 2009 10:02 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Scoscia is an in-game micro-manager as well

he is the one who calls all of the pitchouts, throws to first, etc.

by OaklandSi on Nov 14, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well put.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 15, 2009 12:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think I've determined the proper course of action

I will award the Manager of the Year award to whoever got paid the least money, since he did the least to damage his team’s chances of competing.

In this case, I think that means Bob Geren is the Manager of the Year.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 14, 2009 11:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Meh

As long as managing does not require social skills needed to get your players’ employers to grant days off from work for important play-off games or superb tactics needed to pack 6 guys and their equipment into a 1957 Citroen DS, I say just give the award to the tallest guy with best hair.

by elcroata on Nov 15, 2009 5:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

And it's Geren in a landslide!!!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 15, 2009 8:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dan Patrick?

Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983

by UncleLeo on Nov 15, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Steve Phillips

……….

"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 15, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs


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