Tell-All's: More Damage than Good?
by 67MARQUEZ on Nov 12, 2009 9:00 AM PST
95 comments
Andre Agassi's "Open" is just the latest in a long, long line of literature in which an athlete comes clean.
The former tennis star admitted to using crystal meth in the 1990's, and then lied about it after failing a drug test. Aside from the obvious that Agassi's DOC was not a PED, is there anyone left in the sporting world we can trust? Do we even care? Should we care? I mean, the man wore a wig, for mullet's sake!
Surely these tell-alls are slightly more intriguing when the person telling all is someone of stature, a la Canseco, Torre, Agassi, et al; even more so when innocent bystanders are thrust under a bus in the process.
One writer wonders what other tennis players might reveal in their own autobiographies, including the story behind Sharpova's shrieking on the court:
I had a coach to hone my groundstrokes and another to fix my serve, so it made perfect sense to find someone who could perfect my grunt. To protect her identity, I'll call her Monica. Before a big tournament, I would always pay her a visit to work on my pitch range and timing. Not only did Monica improve the length and volume of my screeching, but most importantly, when to change the frequency. We developed special screeches for different situations in the match. If I was losing, I would break out the scream that sounded like I had come home to find my dog brutally murdered. We called it "Dead Dolce." Then there was the one I'd use when returning serve on a pivotal break point. It was an extended moan with a touch more bass than my standard scream. Before I met Monica, I was just a noisy teenager with some promise. She made me a Wimbledon champion.
A fond as I may be of Maria, I prefer to ponder a penning by Nico of his blogging days at Athletics Nation:
"I wanted Marquez banned from the beginning, but Blez had a soft spot for him for some reason. Gad, how many posts on the 1974 A's can someone write?"
"People never got me. No one even tried to know Cindi. They only wanted to know the Nico living inside of me. Truth is, I hated Nico."
"Most nights I'd sniff glue before a (game) thread."
Wait, that last one might be true.
I guess Andre and other athletes/artists feel that these confessions are somehow soul-cleansing, but isn't that what therapists are for? I can't imagine he needs the money.
I just don't get the point.
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I picked the right one to start!!!
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I don't know anything, other than this:
painkillers are yummy.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 12, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
You can eat painkillers
but you really need to cut down on the peanuts and magnets.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 12, 2009 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
Regarding the question, though
I’ve not read Agassi’s book, yet, but there’s a decent chance I shall; he’s a tennis player I always liked, and is in the Pantheon of successful bald guys (him, Keith Mars, and Michael Stipe, since you ask) whom, as a fellow baldie, reprepresents the top line.
Anyway, I quite like biography (Though, sometimes best if they’re ghost written), so this sort of book would have piqued my interest, in any case.
As for the headlines that it’s caused – he seems to have walked these back, a little; it’s natural, when a publisher has a book in which they’ve invested a decent chunk of cash, that they’ll draw out the most juicy bits.
My favorite sporting biography?
Bobby Fischer Goes to War
Why Tell....
I relate it to a criminal pulling off the perfect heist – he has to tell someone right? Has to brag about what he did that nobody else could figure out.
I think you run into a similar situation here, both with Canseco and Agassi. I’ve not read Agassi’s book, but from what I’ve heard not only does he mention getting away with drug use but also that he lost matches intentionally.
He got away with all of these things, and using the cover of “soul-cleansing,” he’s really just bragging about it. Canseco did the same thing – look at what we got away with, you guys are so stupid for not noticing (although in the case of Jose, he did need the money).
I can definitely see that
It’s almost a “I have to tell” compunction. There was no need to ‘bear his soul’ to the whole world. His wife? Kids? Parents? Managers? Coaches? The league, even?
Maybe he thought it would get out and wanted to be the one to break the news?
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 12, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
I love the bit about grunting.
But then, vocal expression is a passion of mine. I guess you’re using that as an example of TMI, but it’s just the sort of thing I’d want to read. I don’t give a shit about tennis, and I’m not even sure who Maria Sharpova is, but I’m fascinated by the idea that one would hire a coach to perfect one’s grunt.
On the general question. I love transparency, but I dislike hype. Are the tell-alls more the one or the other? I don’t know, because I never read them, but my gut instinct is that they are good not bad.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I HATE the grunt sound
really, really obnoxious and makes me want to turn the TV off…
..the science behind it though? Very interesting.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 12, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Sometimes I like it.
You figure it out.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I set you up, didn't I?
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 12, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
for what????
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Hmph.
I suppose you’re one of those people who doesn’t want to see singers breathe or dancers sweat either.
I love watching (and hearing) human bodies, not robots.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I LOL'd! at the Sharipova bit!
I never considered taking him out. I had a commitment to his heart. - Johnny King
I better make sure to hide my glue from Nico from now on!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 12, 2009 11:15 AM PST reply actions
What -- you don't like to share the wealth?
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." -- Connie Mack
Why are your posts frontpage worthy?
I understand you enjoy informing and writing about nostalgic and old news about the A’s. From a historical perspective. I’m sure many enjoy reminiscing, but just not my preference. I’d much rather have frontpage topics that are more relevant right now. I guess its nice to have mixture of several AN forntpage writers, but personally i skip over some of the stuff. IMO its better for fanposts, than for the frontpage. Just my opinion, though I’m sure some will disagree.
I agree-Marquez67 needs to branch out. What about the '75 A's?
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
A few things.
1. Some people do like to relive the past moments, and with that, things that were going on in their lives at that time.
2. Some people weren’t around to live it and like the history lesson.
3. In twenty years, you’ll love reminiscing about the 2012, 2013 and 2014 World Champion A’s. (because you watched it birthed)
4. 67M writes very well.
5. His writings aren’t supposed to be ‘old news.’ They’re features with a unique perspective.
6. There is not much news day-to-day for the A’s in the offseason.
7. Keeping readership up means new posts every day.
8. You are welcome to write fanposts every week until you are selected for frontpage duty and then you can try to come up with ideas for articles every fifth or sixth day.
9. Variety is good.
10. You don’t have to read it if you don’t want to.
by LoneStranger on Nov 12, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Battin' 10 for 10, doc.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 12, 2009 6:38 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks LS -
I’m thinking that #8 would be very difficult. To create lively, timely, interesting posts on a regular basis. After while it seems there would be nothing more to say.
I think looking to the past gives us perspective in the present. You can;t know where you’re going if you don;t know where you’ve been and all that. I think your 10 things about cover it!
There has to be a less dickish way to ask that question...
by Joey C. on Nov 12, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I read that subject line as very assholish.
It sounds like he didn’t mean it that way, but yeah, wow.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
No, I'm pretty sure he did.
Let me be the first to just cross the threshold completely.
AF4E: Fuck you.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 12, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 8 recs
I can't tell if that's LB talking, or the painkillers.
by LoneStranger on Nov 12, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
...
Well he should arm himself if he’s gonna decorate his place with my friend.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 12, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
Troll gone.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Feel free.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 12, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
YOU'RE OVER THE LINE, LB
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Aparently
he is the only one concerned about the rules!!
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
and what, exactly, have you posted that's worth reading?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
these posts are front page worthy
because someone has to remind people what the iceplant and the hills looked like on a warm summer’s day in the East Bay in 1973, that’s why.
That, and because Joe Rudi, Vida Blue and Bert Campaneris pay 67M good American money for them to be front page worthy! So read them and enjoy them or Joe might have a problem, and you do not want Joe Rudi on your lawn in a bad mood, I speak from experience on that one.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Nov 12, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+ a million
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 12, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
Being on the front page is just being on the front page.
It doesn’t mean it has to live up to your personal standard of worthiness.
I skipped all the playoff game threads because I don’t care about the playoffs. I’m sure some others skip the trade-speculation threads. So you don’t like 67M’s speculation about tell-alls. Fine, just skip it and go read something else.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Personally...
…I enjoy the variety that 67’s threads provide. As well as threads from others. I also have no problem with skipping over threads that don’t particularly interest me. It’s not a big deal. That’s what titles are for.
Now, at the risk of drawing everyone’s ire, I do feel that a thread about a ‘tell-all’ book from a tennis player should not automatically be a front-page thread. I do feel that that distinction should be reserved for the primary purpose of the site… the A’s and/or baseball in general. I’d rather this particular thread be posted as a regular off-topic thread.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
Though at the moment, baseball itself is kind of off-topic!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think its amazing...
Were there not reporters and bloggers SCREAMING this spring for someone, anyone on the list of 104 who tested positive in 03 to come out and admit that they were on it BEFORE someone else outted them?
Is that not all Andre did?
His drug use did not improve anything, so really he’s just admitting a personal sin…
The wig? Please…
Not giving his all during losing matches? Give me one sport where this does not happen on a daily basis…
So really, why the fuss?
I heard Agassi on the Dan Patrick podcast yesterday
It sounded to me like he wasn’t trying to write for cathartic purposes, or to brag, but rather to warn parents about the dangers of pushing their kids too hard toward sports. A lot of the book (according to Agassi and DP, I should point out, since I haven’t read it) deals with Agassi’s warped relationship with his father, how being forced into tennis made him hate it, and how that eventually led to him considering drugs as a means of escape.
He was adamant during the interview that he felt people could learn from his life, and I tend to believe him.
Good stuff, Joey.
Sorry I missed that. Mainly because I wish I had Dan Patrick’s voice.
But seriously, thanks.
My main issue here is the timing (then again, how often do these things get written while they are still playing/managing?). Overall, I enjoyed watching Agassi play, and the persona that came with.
I'm here to talk about the past.
He is releasing it fairly close to his playing days
But maybe these revelations would be just as controversial no matter when he decided to disclose them. Implying that the honchos of the sport just turned a blind eye to his meth use (such as it was— apparently, he gave it up right quick)— that’s what was really shocking to me. I don’t know that different timing would really affect my reaction one way or the other.
But my man, if you find yourself with an hour or so to spare on weekdays, subscribe to the Best of the Dan Patrick Show podcast on iTunes. It’s free and criminally entertaining.
You better be right, I have a roundtrip to Balt. this weekend and I'm gonna need some inflight entertainment
DLing now
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 12, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
Flying to Baltimore would put me on the DL, too
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 12, 2009 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
Once riding in old Baltimore, Heart-filled, head-filled with glee
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 12, 2009 7:14 PM PST up reply actions
Now you are 39 and very large
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
traveling haiku?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 12, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
Countee Cullen
LB has quoted him before. Awesome poet, very readable, worth your time.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
you may be the only one to get the reference.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 13, 2009 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
But I miss all the movie, pop song, and TV show references.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
nah, just the movie ones.
And you’re more than worth your weight in etymology and other goodies. Plus you love show tunes and have a history of cross dressing. Speaking of, have you seen the latest New Yorker? Thought of you…
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 13, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
Oh hell, I only did it half a dozen times
and most of them were on Halloween. It’s not a big deal. Hardly a “history”.
My new thing is accents. I love accents anyway, and I have a couple of them I can do effortlessly. It’s interesting to meet people for the first time with a (midland) Southern accent and see how differently you are treated. Among other things, people assume you’re stupid. Or at least educated West Coast urbanites do.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Well, then, you definitely need to read the new New Yorker.
there’s an article about one of the guys that teaches actors accents.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 14, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
Sounds good.
Is this online, or do I have to go to a newsstand?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
You can't expect to learn accents at a newsstand.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
oddly
tennis is the one sport i pay more attention to the women’s than the men’s. And it’s not for the reasons one might think, haha.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 12, 2009 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
He was also on "60 Minutes" this week
He almost comes off as sympathetic…
Until Katie Couric mentions how much money he made playing tennis. Boo.
Unfortunately, the problem with stories of personal redemption by star athletes is that they only further the “bailout” mentality: if Agassi can do crystal meth and turn out fine, so can I!
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Actually, thinking about it more, I wanted to add
I don’t feel like he’s asking for sympathy, at all. He’s telling a story.
And realistically, if you don’t want to fund his millionaire life, no-one is forcing you to buy his book. As with anything in this country, demand drives supply – the publishing company figured that this was a product they can sell; time will tell as to whether they were right, or not.
No, I know and I'm not saying he's trying to say "woe is me"
But when a guy who has made as much money as he did comes out on national TV and says how much he hated exactly what made him the money, it rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
And the meth thing, I just think it sets a bad example. It’s a redemptive story for sure, but the fact that, like you said, stopping was what allowed him to rise again kind of glosses over the mistakes he made earlier in life. I just don’t want kids who look up to the guy to say “wow, Agassi did meth and he’s cool” and not learn the lesson from the story.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 12, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
I see what you're saying
But on the other hand – I don’t think he’s ever claimed to be an example to kids. In addition, he’s not really socially relevant to the younger generation – seriously, I’m betting that most people under 20 don’t know who he is.
Finally, and this is always my opinion on this sort of thing, if a tennis player is influencing children to take drugs, then very serious questions have to be asked of parents, and to a lesser extent, schools, and of society as a whole.
That't the thing about professional athletes
None of them go into it with the idea that they will BE it role model – but the role is often thrust upon them. The better they are the more scrutiny their life receives. Some probably even wish they didn’t have to deal with it all. Nowadays with everything ever accessible and going viral in minutes it is even harder to shield your life from prying eyes if you are in the public at all.
You might be correct in saying the younger set don’t know who he is – but I bet kids playing tennis do. If they follow the sport his name is out there as a champion. I have the feeling that most kids will see it as a cautionary tale or will think “what a dork – why would anyone playing at such a high level do such a thing? or that’ll never happen to me.” Agassi probably thinks he can help someone. If you have ability and opportunity to shine the spotlight on a problem in your sport – are you obligated to do so?? Lots of instances where this happens – eating disorders in gymnastics and figure skating girls comes to mind.
In the same way – our own Duke coming out about his depression might also help others who are suffering. I say – let’s take the lesson and use it if we can!!
This is very thoughtful, Jo.
I’m more of an introspective person, but that doesn’t mean its the only way to deal, or that you might not inspire by putting yourself out there.
I never considered taking him out. I had a commitment to his heart. - Johnny King
I feel safe
67M kept his word and didn’t out me for engaging in secret, vaguely Satanic rituals with the cast of Sesame Street involving PCP, a stuffed rabbit, and a Senegalese Pocket Thesaurus before each game thread, whew.
Now if we can just hide the scandalous nature of how we each get a cut from Blez whenever Leopold Bloom quotes a 1970s rock song or Paul Thomas uses an abbreviation, we’ll be all right [[wink]].
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
...and the milkman left me a note yesterday
He said, "Get out of this town by noon!
“You’re coming on way too soon,
And besides that, we never liked you anyway!”
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 12, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
I should buy LB the "Woodstock" box and all the "Isle of Wight 1970" reissues
and keep him in quotes for the winter… just so emperor can have that new 6-string bass he has his eye on for Christmas.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Nov 12, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
I'm listening to a most excellent remix of Marvin Gaye...
goes well with pain meds…
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 12, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
(wags madicated tail)
(slowly licks own nose)
(stares at wall)
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 12, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
(starts to lick self)
(gets distracted by itchy nose)
(writes letter to New Yorker, complaining about caption contest)
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 12, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
BONUS POINTS FOR JLAFF!
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 13, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
Wait... that was YOU???
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Enh, not so juste.
I kept thinking, “Wait, if it’s a Senegalese thesaurus, what language is that?” It’s not like Japanese or Portuguese, where the nationality is also a language.
If he had said “Mandingo pocket thesaurus”, for example, that would have been much cooler.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
yep
Blez also set it up with JetBlue so Nico, BaseballGirl and I get 1000 frequent flier points whenever you say “GYMNASTICS”.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
classic reply fail to mikev there
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Nov 12, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
I see what you did there.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I laughed.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Nov 12, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
yes
one of my favoritest M67 posts yet!!!
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 12, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions
Hair weave
I’m much more upset with Agassi about the hair weave than the drug use as a person with hair follicle disapperance disease.
Since Agassi was the last tennis player I enjoyed watching I might pick up his book and I think he should be celebrated as someone who really turned his life around as he became a great player after flaming out early in his career and he’s done a lot of good charity work.
do you think his success is somehow tied to his hair.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 13, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
hey, it worked for Sampras
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 13, 2009 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
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