Manuel, Lidge Get What They Deserve: FAIL
by Nico on Nov 1, 2009 8:57 PM PST
56 comments
Baseball never fails to astound me, and that includes some of the choices that made in an apparent effort to win. Despite Pedro Feliz' heroic efforts to keep tying the game -- first with a single to make it 2-2 off Sabathia, and then with a dramatic HR to re-tie the game 4-4 with 2 out in the 8th off Joba Chamberlain -- the Phillies seemed determined to put their worst foot forward.
From the beginning, when a game that should have, IMO, been started by Cliff Lee, went instead to Joe Blanton, ensuring that Lee will not pitch thrice in the series -- the only way I foresaw Philly pulling off an upset. Blanton pitched a lot better than the numbers suggest, as he was nickel and dimed to death in the 5th by a well-placed chopper, a seeing eye single, and a flair to right field hit so weakly it hit 3 pigeons and 2 of them didn't even notice.
But Lee should have gotten the call, and on a night when the Phillies' offense had 4 runs in them they might have prevailed behind their ace.
And then there's Brad Lidge, throwing his second best pitch, the fastball, to Alex Rodriguez in the season's most crucial moment to date. Not just a fastball, mind you, a fastball right down the middle with the count 0-1. But the location was probably just an execution mistake. Getting beaten with your second best pitch is what drives managers crazy -- assuming they're not busy messing things up from the beginning themselves.
Maybe Lidge was afraid to bounce a slider with Johnny Damon at 3B. Here's a solution: Cover 3B like you're supposed to and a steal of 2B won't end with the runner at 3B. Here's another solution: Bounce the slider if that's what can get the hitter out. It's the catcher's job to block it.
So now the Yankees are one win away from completing their purchase of a World Series title. Pathetic.
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Money
Apparently can buy happiness, or a championship in this case.
Follow on Twitter - @MAD_Marvin
by Hit4TheCycle on Nov 1, 2009 8:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It still drives me nuts
that the Yankees got the best hitter on the market, AND the #1 and #2 pitchers. And this is somehow okay.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
by danmerqury on Nov 1, 2009 9:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
it amazes me that people defend such a system
and even use their futility since 2000 as proof that somehow, money doesn’t matter and it has more to do with excellent management and drafting prowess. I can agree to a point, but then you get to the point where you say “well, the (insert small market team here) failed because they put all their eggs in (insert much-hyped oft-injured player here)’ basket.”
It’s margin for error, and the Yankees have a lot. Couple that with a false-toothed luxury tax system and the riches afforded by owning your own sports network, and you have a lot of chips stacked against other teams. To say nothing about the Sox in the same division, or the other 3 teams there.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 1, 2009 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well then...
…it appears that the only way to promote fairness is to ensure the Yankees share more earned profit with their competitors; punishing success with theft distribution for the greatest good. Or the league could begin handicapping wins from the get go. That would make for an interesting system to defend since the Yankees regularly victimize the other teams around the league.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 2, 2009 2:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the only way to promote fairness in a salary CAP.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 2, 2009 5:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent
Let’s cap the player’s salaries, that way the owners can turn even largerprofits, and maybe create parity.
by el generico on Nov 2, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm not even sure how to respond to this.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 2, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a player salary cap
It’s a hard team salary cap. Pay any one guy what you want but do so at the expense of team payroll flexibility. I don’t know what you set it at — $110M? — but creating a virtual baseball aristocracy as it is right now is not the way
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 2, 2009 3:45 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Salary caps are not fair.
It’s top-down bullshit that fucks with incentives in unforseen ways.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 2, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Raise the minimum, lower the maximum
It’s better for 90% of the players and nobody gets absurdly ridiculously insanely rich, just insanely rich.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 2, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Raise the minimum?
Pay someone more than they’re worth? Man, if we were discussing CEOs on another website you’d be read the riot act for it.
Lower the maximum? I’ve got news for you; a player who thinks he’s worth the money — and teams willing to pay him whet he thinks he’s worth — will just drive up the price in ways that do not show with dollar signs. And, with all the perk compensation that teams would shower on players, some of the contractual stuff could not be transferred to another organization, making trades damned near impossible.
Does no one on this site trust owners, players, and fans to freely transact with one another to set prices? Must everyone exercize their inner central planner in asserting that they know what’s best for the actual parties with privity to contracts?
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 2, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's amazing how such little things made the difference in the game
Ruiz just missing being able to hold on for the 1-2 foul tip. Then, the shift for Texiera put the fielders out of position for a steal, and Damon took advantage of poor covering by Lidge. Then, for some inexplicable reason, Lidge decides not floor a few slides.
Gahhh.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 1, 2009 9:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What the hell was Manuel doing?
Two outs, Damon on first - a guy who RUNS, for Crissake - and putting on a shift so the third baseman is out of position? Insane. You don’t have a shift when you’ve got runners on base. You just don’t.
by richwol1 on Nov 1, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The runs saved by positioning your fielders correctly are vastly greater than the runs lost through something as trivial as allowing runners to go to third with two outs
That’s not even a decision to make, much less one in which Manuel made the wrong play.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 1, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In the top of the ninth inning of a tie game in the World Series, with a head-case on the mound?
by richwol1 on Nov 1, 2009 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One way is playing to win
The other way is playing to not get second-guessed by Monday morning quarterbacks… which will inevitably happen when any “out of the ordinary” decision fails to work in a particular instance.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 1, 2009 10:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Being so far away from third...
That you can’t get back while a batter is running toward second isn’t just playing in position for a batter - it’s doing a major shift. I can understand some kind of shift but c’mon. I’ve never seen that kind of shift when there’s a runner on first.
by richwol1 on Nov 2, 2009 12:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact...
I think these sentences from the Chronicle say it all:
“Damon capped a nine-pitch at-bat with a single. The Phillies overshifted their infield to the right side for Mark Teixeira and Damon took off. Damon beat the one-hop throw to steal second, popped up from his slide and noticed no one was covering third. That’s because Feliz had handled the throw, and Damon easily beat the third baseman to the bag for a rare double-steal — fact is, who’d ever seen it?”
“Rattled or whatever, Lidge hit Teixeira with a pitch.”
The reason people don’t see it is because you don’t see overshifts like this with a runner on first base - because a runner stealing second can run to third because no one would be covering.
by richwol1 on Nov 2, 2009 1:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Weren't we talking about that in one of the Cust threads?
that having Cust bat after Davis would force the defense to abandon the shift because of that possibility?
by Future Ed on Nov 2, 2009 6:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've mentioned it a couple of times WRT to Davis being on 2nd with Cust at the plate
And if Damon had stayed at 2B on the steal, it’s clear that the Phillies would have had to abandon that version of the shift, or else just concede 3B to Damon.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Nov 2, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They pretty much conceded 3B to Damon anyway!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 2, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what needs to happen
Lee wins tomorrow, then 4 days of rain, Lee wins again, then 4 more days of rain, then Lee clinches it, and finally Charlie Manuel’s genius will be recognized.
Follow on Twitter - @MAD_Marvin
by Hit4TheCycle on Nov 1, 2009 9:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I can see the pairs of animals now:
“We’re boarding again? What is it this time, rudder failure? Good grief!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 1, 2009 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.
by Elvez on Nov 1, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't gotten to see the last two games (darn life getting in the way!)
but from everything I’m reading that whole Brad Lidge isn’t quite as good as Mariano Rivera thing looks to be true.
We’ll see if Lee can keep the Phillies in it tomorrow but it sure looks like the evil empire is the better team right now.
by sirbed on Nov 1, 2009 9:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He was the right pitcher to face Rodriguez
What’s not at all clear is whether he was the right pitcher to face the preceding batters. I think they should have left Madsen in to face the first two and then gone to a lefty to face Damon. Might not have made any difference, but oh well.
The complaint about “getting beat on your best pitch”, incidentally, is fairly ridiculous. If you’re doing the game theory right, you should be mixing your pitches such that every pitch should be equally likely to work in a certain situation. If not, well, you’re getting beat because you didn’t do the game theory right.
I mean, Joba Chamberlain got “beat on his best pitch.” Think maybe he wishes he had thrown a slider there?
One final point— I suspect rather strongly that if the Series makes it to a Game 7, Cliff Lee will be starting that game.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 1, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say you don't throw your second best pitch
I said you don’t get beaten with your second best pitch. Granted, the main problem was execution — I’m sure the pitch was supposed to be in on the hands — but when your bread and butter is the slider and you’re facing A-Rod it’s pretty inexcusable to put an 0-1 fastball in the center of the plate. But I guess that’s how you lead the majors in blown saves.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 1, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the hitter knows you won't throw your second-best pitch for a strike, it becomes almost worthless
All he has to do is have some rudimentary pitch-recognition skills and he can lay off the pitch.
I’m pretty sure Lidge was trying to throw the exact same pitch that got him to the 0-1 count in the first place. He missed— it happens. Maybe he should have wasted a slider there just to get A-Rod thinking about it— I don’t know. But I have a hard time seeing where the grounds for complaint are here. Maybe the correct play in that situation is to throw a fastball 25% of the time, and this happened to be one of the 25%.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Nov 1, 2009 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was mostly the location, but Lidge's slider
is such that you have to have way more than rudimentary pitch-recognition skills to pick up the slider and lay off when it’s out of the strike zone. But you just can’t make that big a location mistake with your second best pitch in that situation.
Throw your best pitch, or if you throw the fastball and miss location, you’d better miss away from the middle of the plate, not towards it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 2, 2009 7:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is probably as good a place as any
to remind you all that the Yankees are not cool. I personally find them offensive and, quite honestly, you should too.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 1, 2009 10:05 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Somebody doesn't?!?
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Nov 1, 2009 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i absolutely cant stand the Yankees...
or any other team that justifies a title by paying for a team and buying off players from the market.
at least God will be happy that Jeter won another title.
by Twan54321 on Nov 1, 2009 10:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The system is what the system is.
I hate the Yankees because they are the Yankees.
It’s simply not enough to hate them because of something they do, e.g. buy their way into a championship. This suggests that if they decided not to buy their way into championships, you’d hate them less. And that’s wrong, even theoretically.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Nov 1, 2009 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is becoming ridiculous
I realize my hatred for the Red Sox clouds my judgment, but I don’t remember all of the hand-wringing when the Red Sox “bought” two world titles.
I guess we’re just supposed to hate the team that spends the most, and all the others that spend a ton get a pass. Ok.
You ask me (and I realize nobody has), it’s a bunch of cry-baby bitchin’ and moanin’. Heaven forbid they spend the money to win — completely ridiculous idea.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Nov 1, 2009 11:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
The system is what it is, why blame the Yankees for spending the most and trying the best they can with the resources they have?
It isn’t like they video taped the signals and knew what was coming; that wouldn’t be very Patriotic now, would it?
They play the system fairly to their advantage, and this year it appears it will pay off.
WIth that said, I really hope the Phillies find a way to win 3 more games…
"If my uniform doesn't get dirty, I haven't done anything in the baseball game." - Rickey Henderson
by BillMoresi on Nov 1, 2009 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
I totally understand hating the Yankees because of the mystique. When I was a kid, I hated the Cowboys because of all that “America’s Team” crap. I get that. I totally understand hating the Yankees because they win a lot. Like UNC in college basketball or USC in college football, the top dogs will receive as much hatred as they do love. I get that, too.
What I don’t understand is hating them because they have a lot of money, and they spend it in an effort to win. The Phillies payroll is almost double ours. Philly spends twice as much as we do on their team. That’s a lot. The Cubs, Mets, Red Sox (just to name a few) have payrolls that dwarf ours. Yet I don’t see the handwringing … why not? Is it just the team on top of the payroll ladder that gets it? As if that team somehow represents all the others? What if the Yankees were to drop to No. 2 on the payroll list? Would our hatred automatically shift to the top team on it?
LIke I said, it just seems silly to hate the Yankees because of their payroll, when all the other teams that outspend us ridiculously somehow get a pass.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Nov 2, 2009 6:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees are just a surrogate marker
For a market on its head. Like I said above I don’t mind that they have more WS titles, or even the annoying entitlement feeling they have. It’s that they can be a market unto themselves.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Nov 2, 2009 3:49 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
blanton
After watching him today, I wonder if beane has any buyers remorse over that trade. A’s could still really use his rotation stability. Going into next yr, its still anderson and a bunch of unknowns. The return: outman may not pitch till next midseason. It seems cardenas has really fallen off the radar on prospect lists and Spencer will be in a rule 5 roster crunch after next yr. So none of those players are sure things. I’ll even add the harden looks like a bust too depending on people’s hopes for patterson/donaldson.
by Asfan4ever723 on Nov 1, 2009 10:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, Cardenas had a great season.
And he’s ranked #3 on our AN prospect list, under the almighty Carter and Wallace. He also got several mentions on the BA Hot Sheets.
And Outman was great this year. Yeah, he had TJ surgery, but no one saw that coming.
No, there's no light,
in the darkest of your furthest reaches.
by danmerqury on Nov 1, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So now the Yankees are one win away from completing their purchase of a World Series title. Pathetic.
This end-of-post comment coupled with the first two replies are curious. Does this mean that that the three of you should disavow any potential free agent signings by the Athletics? Or is it the degree to which the Yankees have the money to sign players that have you three bothered? Should the Yankees not try their hardest to assemble a team with the money they have?
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 2, 2009 2:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
+100
I tip my cap to any ownership group that pulls out all the stops in an effort to win. You know who we ought to be mad at? The owners who are more concerned with the bottom line than they are with winning championships.
Give me Mark Cuban and George Steinbrenner anyday over penny-pinching, “well, if we win that’s great, but I’m really in this for myself” business people who care little for the fans.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Nov 2, 2009 6:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
or is it the fact that the Yankees are shoved down our fucking throats every chance ESPN gets
The Yankees don’t have to try their hardest to assemble a team. They just wait and offer $X Million more than whatever the highest offer is.
You’re talking about a team that spent TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS and yet featured guys like Sergio Mitre making starts for them.
Am I supposed to believe they are some wonderful franchise that makes all the right moves? They’re not, they just spend money hand over fist. I could – and I’m serious here – I could run the Yankees and be successful with that kind of budget.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 2, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Could you be successful with 149 million?
That’s what the Mets spend. How bout 134, or 121 (Cubs and Red Sox)? …
I’m not attempting to compliment the Yankees on their “shrewd business dealings” or their expert scouting department or their wonderful minor league system. I’m simply saying that they spend the money they have available to them. You can’t fault them for that.
I’m not a Yankees fan. But I’m not going to hate them anymore than the rest of the big spenders simply because they top the list. Please don’t tell me that the Cubs, Mets, or Red Sox don’t spend money “hand over fist.” Please don’t tell me that the Phillies didn’t “buy” a title, or that the Sox didn’t “buy” a title. Their payrolls dwarf Oakland’s … but I’m not supposed to hate them because they’re not No. 1 on the spending chart?! (And talk about getting “shoved down our throats” by ESPN … Boston holds that title EASY.)
Again, I’m no Yankees fan, but I won’t make them the “bad guys” while everyone else who outspends us by 2 or 3x is somehow “financially responsible.” Won’t fly.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Nov 2, 2009 8:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And who has ever said that the Cubs, Mets, or Red Sox *are* fiscally responsible?
Aside from you just now, I mean?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 2, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, you never said that ...
Again, I just don’t know why I’m supposed to hate the richest guy in the neighborhood who treats me like dirt, and “not hate” the other 6 rich guys who treat me the same.
Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Cubs, Mets — they’re all the same.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Nov 2, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you still watching ESPN?
Or following any other hype-driven media?
But thanks for answering my initial questions. Mike. Yes, that’s sarcasm!
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 2, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cause I don't have MLB network :-(
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Nov 3, 2009 7:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
if it was weird for Blanton and Swisher to be facing each other. There were good pals and roommates iirc
Oh, but if I catch a line drive by a girl, that’s girl-on-girl action, the twiceness is eliminated, and it just counts once - gigglingone
by closetasfan on Nov 2, 2009 6:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yet the entire first Swisher at bat
buck never mentioned it. In fact, he didn’t even mention baseball durng that at bat, he taled about the Spectrum and Football. he would say a sentence about a football game. then repeat the information about that game in a diffreent way.
He also failed to mention it in Swisher’s second at bat. No mention of the best selling book that chronicalled the 2002 draft when they were both taken by the same team. No metion of them coming up together. No metion of their close friendship. no mention of their quick departure form their original team.
Makes you wonder how much baseball infr you miss when you are being told about the Eegles game (that you could have watched or looked up the score to) or about Kate hudson’s holloween plans.
by Future Ed on Nov 2, 2009 6:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, but Buck said the new Pearl Jam was good.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Nov 2, 2009 7:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, the announcers never talk about the minor leagues
Isn’t that what the KC Athletics are?
by MobiusKlein on Nov 2, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently Blanton is closer friends now with Gaudin than with Swisher
The Philadelphia Inquirer had a story on the Blanon/Gaudin A’s connection when it looked like they’d face off in Game 4.
Gaudin’s career has taken him to the Chicago Cubs, San Diego Padres and Yankees since he left Oakland. Though Blanton and Swisher have drifted from one another, the Phils pitcher and Gaudin remained close. Their contacts is mostly limited to brief text messages, and looking for one another’s name on the ESPN crawl. They meet up when they can—Gaudin was still a Padre when the Phils traveled to San Diego this June, and Blanton stayed at his house during that series.
The article also mentions that Manuel thinks that Lee could be available for Game 7 because that would be his bullpen day after his Game 5 start.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Nov 2, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Manuel, but he should've started Lee last night.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 2, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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