Giambi's Claim that A's Would Have Gone to WS if Best of Seven ALDS Format
Lots of hue and cry today over the inequity of the playoff format where a wild card team gets Games Three and Four of the opening best of 5 series at home, and only plays one fewer home games than their division-winning opponents. Never mind the fact that on several occasions that wild card team has had a better record than at least one or more of the division winners.
So various alternatives are tried out, including a "play-in" series involving 2 WCs in each league, a best of 5 where the division winner gets either the first 4, or all 5 games at home, and the extension to a best of seven format. Former A's 1Bman (twice now) Jason Giambi is quoted as saying that with the depth of the A's starting pitching in the early 2000s such a shift (the 7 game opening series) would have meant a WS in Oakland. Presumably he means more than just the two playoff series he participated in, 2000 and 2001. So let's take a good hard look at all four of the postseasons involving the Big Three.
The first point that jumps out at you is that it was a Big Playoiff Three only once, in 2001. That vaunted starting pitching depth Giambi references was true in the regular season, but not in the playoffs. Mulder missed both the 2000 ALDS in his rookie season and the 2003 ALDS due to injury. Hudson was rendered mainly ineffective in both 2002 and 2003 by injury, the latter either caused or exacerbated by a late night barroom brawl in Boston.
In 2000, due to the Mulder injury and Hudson pitching the season-ending clincher vs. Texas, the A's rotation was headed by Gil Heredia (who won Game One and lost after an early KO in Game Five), followed by Kevin Appier (who lost Game Two to Andy Pettite), Tim Hudson (who lost Game Three in the Bronx to El Duque) and Barry Zito (who won Game Four in New York) The Yankees were forced into a 3 man rotation with a horribly ineffective David Cone as their 4th starter and a mediocre Denny Neagle as their 5th. They used Roger Clemens going for the kill in Game Four and then Andy Pettite in the decider back in Oakland the next night, both on three days rest.
Would New York have rolled the dice this way in a 7 game series? I doubt it, given that Clemens would then have had to come back again on 3 days rest in Game 7 back in NY. This was a different Roger Clemens than the version that steroids helped bring back to prominence later in the decade. I think New York would have sacrificed Game Four with Cone or Neagle (a game the A's won anyway) would still have beaten Heredia (though perhaps not to a TLong misplayed "sunball" in the first inning) in Game Five in New York, and then would have been up 3-2 going back to Oakland with Pettite and El Duque set to finish the A's off. vs. Appier and Hudson. These were the two time defending champs, mind you. I think in all likelihood the series ends in Six with Pettite besting Appier again. But who knows?
In 2001 the Yanks had the same trio of starters plus Mike Mussina, while the A's were substituting Cory Lidle for Appier. If you recall the 9/11 attacks caused a one-week delay in the season, which allowed the top teams to set their playoff rotations well in advance. The A's-- a 100 win wild card team-- elected to have Mulder and Hudson open up in the Bronx, followed by Zito and Lidle. Obviously there is no reason to think that series would have been any different through Game Four, when El Duque and the Yanks pounded Lidle and the A's and Jermaine Dye busted his leg. Without Dye the A's lost back in New York-- Mulder losing to Clemens. I do believe that was a winnable game if it had been played in Oakland, and since it wasn't a clinching game (couldn't resist this one) the A's might very well have won. Then Dyeless could they have won once in New York (Hudson v. Pettite and Zito v. Mussina)?
I think it would have been the best bet in all these scenarios, but I also hasten to add that the Mariners would have become clear favorites facing an A's team in the ALCS without Jermaine Dye. And given the problems that Hudson would go on to face in each of the next two postseasons, one has to wonder just how effective he would have been against Seattle. And we'll never know if Cory Lidle (RIP) could have overcome his scab status and earned the team's trust by winning a big game vs. the Mariners.
For those two realities doomed the A's in 2002. Hudson was hurt and the A's lost both games he started, in part because of his own insistence, backed up by Mulder and Zito, that they shift to a 3 man rotation and leave Lidle out of the mix, despite Lidle's great close to the season including a long scoreless inning stretch. In a best of 7 that was split in Oakland, do the A's win Game Five in Minny with Mulder? The same game they lost in Oakland?? Probably not. They would then have to win both Games Six and Seven returning home with Zito on short rest for the first time in his career (and remember he was the CY winner that wasn't selected to pitch in Games One or Two in order to avoid ths very short-rest situation) and a less than optimum Hudson on short rest again. I think Lidle would have been in the mix somewhere but I'm not sure it would have made a difference.
Forget 2003 with no Mulder and, then, curiously, no Hudson either. The Sox were the better team and would have ground the A's down in a 7 game series.
I guess I'm saying Giambi's claim is doubtful, except perhaps in 2001 and even then I don't think the A's get past Seattle, who after all did win 116 games though they would lose to the Yankees.
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74 comments
Comments
interesting
this also reminds me of a point i’ve made to countless people…the a’s “choking” in the playoffs is a ridiculous claim, because they were either dealing with a major injury or two or had their rotation so out-of-whack (2000) that they were at a serious disadvantage. i still think that 2001 team was, hands-down, the best in baseball. remember a-rod’s comments that year? he hated playing us. they won 116, but i don’t think they did well against us in the 2nd half, when we had to have one of the best records in the history of baseball. if that series was 7 games, i think we definitely beat new york, and nobody else had a chance against us, even without dye.
by guy incognito on Oct 7, 2009 9:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well ARod would have been in Texas that year
Still think the A’s were the best team in baseball that year. Though we do forget Seattle’s remarkable accomplishment far too often.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Oct 7, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Seattle team was ridiculously good
There’s no way the A’s were on par with them.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truth is, both teams were ridiculously good
Seattle was for the entire year, until they faced the Yankees.
A’s were unconscious from the Arizona sweep series in the desert, compiling best record over last 85 games in last 60+ years. But without Dye I do think the edge would have shifted to Seattle. Ichiro, Edgar and a bulked up Bret Boone would have outstripped G, Chavez and Tejada.
by eliot123 on Oct 7, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to expound a bit
Seattle won 116 games (.716). Best record in the sport since the inception of the 116 game schedule. (1954 Indians had better W/L % at 112-42. And they lost in the postseason, too)
M’s were a cool +300 in run differential, or nearly 1.9 runs a game.
A’s were 67-20 over their last 87 (.770) games with a run differential of +245— an unheard rate of over 2.8 runs a game better than their opponents. No team— not the M’s, the Yankees in any of their post-war iterations, the Big Red Machine, not the 1954 Indians— was ever this dominant over a stretch lasting more than half a season.
So give the Mariners the credit they deserve for an amazing full season. But don’t forget that after falling nearly 20 games behind by Memorial Day, the A’s were pretty special the rest of the way, obviously aided the final two+ months by Jermaine Dye.
by eliot123 on Oct 7, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops.. I meant 162 game schedule
116 wins out of 116— now that would have been special
by eliot123 on Oct 7, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Tribe was only a measly 111-43 in 1954
Still a smidgen better than the Mariners in W/L % at 721
by eliot123 on Oct 7, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
check out the a’s second half record and run differential:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/2001-schedule-scores.shtml
and then check out the mariners’:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2001-schedule-scores.shtml
that team was a true force of nature and imho the best team hands down heading into the playoffs.
by tas7b on Oct 8, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were, but they'll also forever be remembered as a footnote because they didn't win it all.
Fair? Probably not, but it’s the same fate as the 1954 Indians. Which is more impressive?
2001 Mariners, 116-46, lose in playoffs
or
1998 Yankees, 114-48, win world series
Only two wins apart. Over the course of a 162 game season anything within 3 or so wins doesn’t really mean anything regarding which team is ‘better’. Only makes a difference for playoff seeding and fan bragging rights.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Oct 8, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forever remembered.
If you ask me, “which team had the most wins ever?”, I think Seattle Mariners 2001.
If you ask me, “which team won the World Series in 1998?” I think “duh, I don’t know”.
116 wins is a rare and lasting achievement. World Series is won by somebody every year. The most recent ones you remember, but as the years pass they fade into lost memory.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Oct 8, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can actually recite every WS winner since 1947.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 8, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's easy
not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs, not Cubs,
A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@
by monkeyball on Oct 8, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tried to beat 67M
but could only get back to 1957/58, because I forgot which year the Braves beat the Yankees, and which year the Yankees beat the Braves.
Other than that blip, I got back to 1943 before I failed.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 8, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
You go 162-0 and then lose in the playoffs? Means you didn’t get it done, plain and simple. Regular season records are for chumps.
I’d take a mediocre record and a world title any day over impressive regular season “accomplishments”. You play the game for one reason, and one reason only. To win the World Series. Nothing else matters.
It’s like the Patriots going 16-0 a couple years ago … all I remember is they didn’t get it done … couldn’t finish. And the NY Giants were World Champions … had a parade and everything. It don’t mean a thing if you don’t win that ring, baby.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Oct 8, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
um
i know it was hyperbole, but pretty sure a 162-0 team would be remembered. as it was mentioned above by others, everyone remembers the mariners have the most wins in a regular season ever.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Oct 9, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where was it mentioned that "everyone remembers the Mariners?"
Actually, I think you would be very hard-pressed to find many baseball fans who would remember that.
Why? Because it doesn’t mean anything — it’s a “fun fact” you bring up in a bar when you’re drinking with your buddies. Again, if you don’t win the whole thing, it means absolutely nothing.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Oct 9, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta Disagree
Many casual baseball fans don’t remember anything about whatsoever about what happened more than a season or two ago.
But I’m willing to bet that almost any fan that remembers that the Diamondbacks won the great Schadenfreude series of 2001 also remembers that the M’s won a record number of games that year.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Oct 10, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a chump then.
I follow maybe about 120 games a year. I enjoy it when my team wins. The playoffs are only a few games, if you even make it there.
Basically you’re saying that anyone who is a fan of a non-contending team can never enjoy the game. If “nothing else matters” then why does a Royals or Pirates fan even pay attention at all?
Did you lose all interest in the A’s in June, because it was pretty clear by then we weren’t going to reach the World Series?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Oct 9, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean to say that
“anyone who is a fan of a non-contending team can never enjoy the game.” Fans come in all shapes and sizes … personally, I “enjoy” the regular season only in the sense that it leads (hopefully) to the playoffs. I don’t root for the A’s to simply have a winning season, nor do I get happy or feel satisfied if they over-achieve. I root for the A’s to win the whole thing. Period. That’s me, though.
No, I didn’t lose “all interest” win the A’s fell out of contention, but I re-adjusted my expectations and began to look forward to next season. For me, it’s all about the big prize. But that’s why I don’t have a big problem with how the Marlins do business. They dismantle the team and have really horrible seasons from time to time … they also have two world championships in the last 10 years (or so). In my opinion, that’s how success ought to be measured. How many titles?
So, anyone has a right to express or experience their fandom however they like — for me, however, it’s about winning in the regular season only so that you can reach the playoffs only so that you have a chance to win the World Series. I get no satisfaction whatsoever from our run in the early 00’s. It was nice, but the A’s failed to achieve what they play for (and what I root for) - another world title. So, I’ll just keep hopin’ and prayin’ next season … and on and on until we win again. )
But that’s just me. :
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Oct 10, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to question your fandom. Just saying for me it’s about the whole season not just the playoffs. Wasn’t trying to turn it into an argument.
I did get lots of satisfaction from our run in the early 00’s. I thought that was awesome.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Oct 10, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, it would have been close
the Mariners had a better offense and defense by a pretty good margin, but the A’s had much better starting pitching. Hudson, Mulder, and Zito were all better than any Seattle starter. Mariners were probably better, but not by a lot. It doesn’t make sense to look at only that season’s stats to figure out who was the better team unless the point is to figure out “who played better in the regular season” and of course that was the Mariners.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Oct 8, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The A's were better than a team that beat them in the West by 13 games?
by Graham on Oct 8, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 games of pythag, and the A's made a big upgrade in the middle of the year, and the M's had more guys who overperformed relative to their true talent
Try running 3-year tRAs for Garcia and Sele…
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Oct 8, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jermaine Dye had a 2001 wOBA of .348
The Mariner team wOBA was .350.
by Graham on Oct 8, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what I think
The Mariners performed better in 2001 than the A’s.
The A’s’ “true talent” was higher.
I think this because a lot of Mariners had career years (which, of course, would be true of any 116 win team) and regressed going forward.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 8, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could make the case that the A's roster was built better for the future
Which … well, it’s Beane vs. Gillick. Of course it was. But yeah, for the season, I’d have to say that the Mariners were clearly a better team (although the A’s would have been the top team in the majors in pretty much any other year).
by Graham on Oct 8, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, the M's had pretty much the same roster the next year and were down to 92,
while the A’s had a much worse roster (Hatteberg for Giambi, no Damon, begimped Dye) and won 103 (although 96 pythag.)
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Oct 8, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The A's choked...
…in at least two of those years, maybe even three, and anything else is just feel-good rationalization.
We had injuries/issues. So what? Our opponents were no more fresh out of ST as we were. We were also a great team that had great depth and had at least a couple of those series in the palms of our hands… and we let it slip away.
If anything, we may have fallen short in coaching. Jeremy’s non-slide and Tejada’s bonehead stop in between 3rd & home are two high-profile examples of the team not having the presence of mind to know what to do in pressure situations that comes to mind. (I will never blame Byrnes for his non-tag as I believe he was truly knocked senseless and didn’t even know where he was for a few moments.)
Take Jeremy’s non-slide. He didn’t know/think to slide. It should have been an easy play, which is probably what he was thinking. It would have been an easy play… had not Jeter had the presence of mind to run half-way across the field and be in the right place at the right time to relay the ball to home plate. I’m not saying Jeter planned the outcome, but he did think ahead and put himself in position to do the most good for his team should the need arise. Most players wouldn’t have been anywhere near that spot. Without Jeter thinking that play would never have happened as it did. Jeremy would have scored. The game… and series… could have ended differently if that one play ended differently.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Oct 8, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Because most teams lost their best hitter to a broken leg in mid-series. Move along, nothing to see here…
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 8, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Err... left out a "one of"
Giambi was their best hitter. Dye was somewhere between #2 and #4.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 8, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...and yet they still almost won.
Dye was not that critical. He was good, and important, but not so much so that the entire team’s success hinged on only his presence.
Your dismissal is incorrect.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Oct 8, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
You write: “Our opponents were no more fresh out of ST as we were.”
However (in 2001) that’s clearly wrong. None of our opponents had anything like the Dye injury to contend with.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 8, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, basically...
…you’re saying that that ONE player was so critical to the teams success, that the team wasn’t nearly as good nor as deep as we like to think. You’ve already said he wasn’t “the best” player on the team, and might have even been as far down as #4, so I find that conclusion ridiculous.
Besides, the Jeremy non-slide was in Game 3. Dye broke his leg in Game 4. Had Jeremy slid and scored, Game 3 might have been won instead of lost, the A’s would have swept, and Dye’s broken leg would never have happened.
“Cleary wrong”, my ass!
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Oct 8, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How'd your ass get involved?
I’m not saying they were completely incapable of winning without him. I am saying that they dealt with more than any other team. As far as where he ranked, he’s #2 in OPS+ but Chavez and, possibly, Tejada could be ahead of him overall.
Who else was missing such a key player (let alone lost one in such a freakish way)? Nobody. “Freshness out of ST” has nothing to do with it.
That said, I’m done arguing about it.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 8, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The A's need to take all the blame in the world for Game 3
Lilly should have won that game 4-0 or so if they had just made basic plays.
But I think most accusations of choking or of “moneyball doesn’t work in the postseason” are post hoc rationalizations. If Adam Melheuse hits a grounder that goes through Mueller’s legs, scoring 2, then the A’s beat the Sox and Moneyball works and the A’s are amazing comeback artists, not chokers.
If Chavez hits that fastball from Mussina .02 seconds later it’s a 3-run jack, the Giambi non-slide never even happens, and the A’s sweep the Yankees.
The A’s lost 4 consecutive series in 5 games, and the 3 that they lost at home they had, IIRC, the winning run at the plate when the game ended (Durham might have been the tieing run, but I think a HR there would have won it).
The excruciating thing was that they kept getting so close, and they kept fighting all the way til the very last pitch, and could never get that 3rd win.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 8, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 consecutive series in 5 games?
For some reason I thought one of the four was lost 3-1. Am I remembering wrong?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Oct 8, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nick has it right.
And in two series’ the A’s led 2-0.
Why are we talking about this?
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 8, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Cause these dead horses....
….look a lot more interesting and promising than more recent dead horses.
Personally, I’d rather still be talking about this than, say, Matt Holliday’s “effort” or Andre Ethier’s OPS.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Oct 10, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't blame "moneyball" for the failures...
…I blame the players and/or coaching staff. Those teams were as good as any of their opponents and most certainly were “in the driver’s seat” more than once.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Oct 8, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Eric Byrnes runs for Giambi
He scores standing up and God’s Puppy would never been involved in the play.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Oct 8, 2009 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the kind of crap that makes me hate the playoffs.
Everyone argues about how it’s not fair because it failed to correctly pick the team that was truly the best.
So five games isn’t enough to get it right, we need to have seven? But seven games won’t always get it right either. Why not nine?
Here’s an even better idea. Let’s use 162 games to decide who’s best. Congratulations, Yankees. You win this year.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Oct 7, 2009 9:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the way they do it in Europe
They have separate leagues and knockout tournaments so you can watch whatever you feel like.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fine, let’s do 162. but let’s make the schedule fair with an even number of home and away games for every match-up evenly spread out over the season. no more season series held mostly on the east coast. no more facing teams early but not later in the season but not late. and no more facing teams in the other league more than some in your own.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Oct 7, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That last sentence doesn't actually happen in baseball, you know
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn’t the A’s see the giants more than they saw the orioles this year? maybe not. it seemed that way. all those games are blur of black and orange at this point and i can’t tell the diff anymore.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Oct 8, 2009 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
They actually only had two three game series with Baltimore this year, but I believe usually teams play at least nine against each other.
This year they hosted Baltimore for three in June, were in Baltimore for three in August.
So, you’re close. Six against SF, six against BAL.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
by Flashfire on Oct 8, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a few in-league teams that you play as few as six times a season
And one out-of-league team that you play as many as six times a season. But even at the very extremes, it’s a tie. I doubt that’s a coincidence.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Oct 8, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of those sentences doesn’t even happen in grammar!
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Oct 8, 2009 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aaargh, no!
That’s just the opposite of what I’m trying to get at. I want to place less emphasis on the playoffs and more on the regular season. You want to turn the regular season into the playoffs.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Oct 8, 2009 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My question.....
What percentage of MLB’s revenues are generated by the playoffs?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Oct 8, 2009 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know.
which is why my dream will never come true.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Oct 8, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's always the hot sex with the brunette on BART dream
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 8, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On BART wouldn't it have to be cold sex?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 8, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You want Daric to dye his hair brown so you can have sex with him?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 8, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think he might?
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 8, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he might have a dream, too
For instance, you might have to dress up like a pool.
You gotta be willing to meet him halfway.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 8, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought i was agreeing with you. play 162 and winner takes it. not what you were saying? then i was making sure to cover the “crapshoot” angle by making sure all teams play all teams on an even diamond.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Oct 9, 2009 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have an idea!
Let’s have teams only play other teams in their own league during the regular season, and have them play all the other teams an even (or almost even) number of times (12 or 13 in the AL; 10 or 11 in the NL).
Then have the team with the best record in the AL play the team with the best record in the NL in the World Series, which would be over long before November.
Why haven’t they tried this? ;-)
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Oct 10, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Insufficient ad revenue
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 10, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because then I'd have to watch football in October.
"Who cares about some smile data"
by Elvez on Oct 11, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if they gave the home field to best records
rather than alternate between the leagues each year (for the World Series…this, of course before the new way of doing it), the A’s would have had Games 1 & 2 at home in both 1988 and 1990. Not saying it would have made a difference but that homerun off Eck would not have been a walk-off.
Not that I am bitter.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 8, 2009 10:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And the Twinkies wouldn't have won any WS, as far as I'm concerned
metrodome delenda est.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 8, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true.
Which I always found kind of disappointing. Whether it really means anything or not, too many believe it does, and the Twins don;t get the respect they deserve as a result.
For my money, the 1991 WS is still the best and most hard-fought WS I have ever seen.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Oct 8, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 1987 Twins deserve no respect as champions
The won 85 games total, they were outscored by 20 runs over the course of the year, and they had a putrid 29-52 road record.
They were basically a 90-loss team (and that’s assuming they should have had some kind of home-field advantage) that won the AL West because they played in the most ridiculous baseball stadium in the majors (where, incidentally, they might have been cheating), and won the Series because it was the AL’s turn to host 4 games.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 8, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't defend the '87 Twins too much, but I will the '91 Twins.
Candlestick was the most ridiculous stadium in the majors at that time. I’ve been to several games in the Metrodome. I really don’t think it’s as bad as so many claim, though I can’t explain why it’s such a home field advantage for them, either.
That being said, they also benefited from an extremely weak division that year. If any other team had been even reasonably good they would never have won the division, let alone the WS
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Oct 8, 2009 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 'Stick vs. the Metrodome
The difference is that the problem with the Stick — the ridiculous wind — was equally hard for the Giants. I guess they could get used to the concept, but if a 25 mph gust suddenly hits the infield, it becomes an unpredictable problem for everyone.
The Metrodome has two really weird features: the Superbouncyball artificial turf, and a roof that’s exactly the same color as a baseball. Both of those factors are constant and predictable, so if you play there a lot you can get used to them. If you don’t, you’re going to get into trouble.
So, the Metrodome is such a homefield advantage for the Twins because they learn how to play the turf and the roof better than their opponents. Also, there’s good evidence that the team cheated by turning on the ventilation system when the Twins were hitting so fly balls would go farther.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 9, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clarification.
There is good evidence that an employee of the stadium who was a Twins fan cheated. Not the same as saying the team cheated.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Oct 9, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 8, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scuttle the ship!!!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Oct 8, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More of a comment on latin quips.
Link.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Oct 8, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as he used to say: “dulce et decorum est pro patria atletica mori. glub. glub. glub.*”
- the sound of drowning in the spanish edition.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Oct 9, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor would it have even happened... most likely.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Oct 8, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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