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2010 Community Prospect List - #4

The Minor League season has ended, and Winter Leagues are still a ways away. So what do we have left to do but tally up our Minor League experiences and take a look at the state of the A's Minor League System.

If you want to view Last Year's list, check here.

The qualifications to be voted onto the list are simple. The player in question must be eligible to win a Rookie of the Year Award for the 2010 season-that is, he must be a rookie to start the 2010 season. Well, not quite. To make it simpler and not have to count days on the active roster, we will be going with 130 AB or 50 Innings Pitched.

Star-divide

Lots of players have graduated from last years list, such as Cahill, Anderson, Mazzaro and Outman to name a few. Several others have upped their prospect value while others have fallen. Its our job to figure out where they stand.

The list will probably go on to 50 again like last time, though it really depends on how far AN wants to take it.

So argue out which player you believe deserves the spot for the list. Bring out the stats, the scouting reports, and the pictures (I'm looking at you flashfire!).

If you think you know a prospect well enough, write a scouting report with your supporting stats and I will put it into the thread for the next vote, either for the player's Bio after he wins, or for his bio for voting.

If you think a player deserves mention, or should be put on the next prospect vote list, or prospects that should be kept track of, put them in the comments (and preferably mark them clearly) and they will get consideration. I expect the top of the list, as with last year, to go rather smoothly for the first few players, but it gets more difficult as it goes on, and its up to you to bring prospects to light so that we can all see them. Just ask Anthony Capra, last year's #46 (and this years much higher) how important that is.

Votes will last a few days per round, or until a clear winner has emerged by landslide.

Age is entering the 2009 Season.

Prospects up for Vote;

Jemile Weeks, 2B, Age 22

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
AA 30 .238 .303 .343 2 13 4 10 5
STO (oak) A+ 50 .299 .385 .468 7 31 5 29 9

 

Grant Green, SS, Age 21

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
USC College 54 .374 .441 .569 4 32 16 46 19
STO (oak) A+ 4 .316 .350 .368 0 3 1 2 1

 

Grant Desme, OF, Age 23

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
STO (oak) A+ 62 .304 .398 .656 20 51 16 49 12
KAN (oak) A 69 .274 .334 .490 11 38 24 49 19

 

Michael Ynoa, SP, Age 17

Did not play, 60 Day Disabled List.

 

Corey Brown, CF, Age 23

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
MID (oak) AA 66 .268 .349 .488 9 43 5 46 20

 

Josh Donaldson, C, Age 23

DesignatedForAssignment's case for Josh Donaldson

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
MID (oak) AA 124 .270 .379 .415 9 91 7 67 37

 

Arnold Leon, SP, Age 20

2009 Stats G W-L ERA IP H BB K SV WHIP
MID (oak) AA 33 2-3 3.51 74.1 71 28 63 1 1.33

 

Tyson Ross, SP, Age 22

2009 Stats G W-L ERA IP H BB K SV WHIP
MID (oak) AA 9 5-4 3.96 50 40 20 31 0 1.20
STO (oak) A+ 18 5-6 4.17 86.1 78 33 82 0 1.29

 

A's Community Prospect List

1. Chris Carter, 1B, Age 22 - 76%

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
SAC (oak) AAA 13 .259 .293 .519 4 14 0 7 2
MID (oak) AA 125 .337 .435 .576 24 101 13 108 41

 

2. Brett Wallace, 3B, Age 22 - 79%

 

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
SAC (oak) AAA 106 .297 .354 .460 15 47 1 54 21
AAA 62 .293 .346 .423 6 19 0 22 11
SPR (stl) AA 32 .281 .403 .437 5 16 0 22 5

 

 

3. Adrian Cardenas, IF, Age 21 - 75%

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
AAA 51 .251 .317 .372 1 24 3 23 15
MID (oak) AA 79 .326 .392 .446 3 55 5 56 26

 

 

Due to popular demand, poll expanded to 8!

Dont forget to list players in comments that you believe should be added to the poll soon!

Poll
Who is the A's #4 Prospect?
Jemile Weeks, 2B
122 votes
Corey Brown, CF
17 votes
Josh Donaldson, C
24 votes
Grant Desme, OF
73 votes
Arnold Leon, SP
24 votes
Michael Ynoa, SP
22 votes
Tyson Ross, SP
8 votes
Grant Green, SS
41 votes

331 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs  |  Comment 212 comments

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Comments

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Pretty divided so far...

Tough decision. A valid case can be made for any of these guys. I went with Donaldson because I like what he did with Midland this year and I love his OBP. I saw him live in Spring Training and he absolutely murdered a ball over to center field that looked like it was higher than the batter’s eye, just to the right of it. Any one of these guys would be an excellent choice. Should get interesting from here on out.

by JustinIcon19 on Oct 6, 2009 5:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I imagine you'll see that for the next 5+ rounds

There’s a lot of guys who are close, but with different risks.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 6, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I picked very emotionally

Corey Brown, CF.

He may be a bit of a head case but I look at him and see improving performance. His BB% is coming back up at a higher level and his K rate is coming down.

5 tools, improving strike zone judgment, reasonable defense in center, plus defense in the corners, good power potential.

But the real reason I picked Brown…..I keep on thinking Corey Brown=Nick Swisher. And I can’t shake it off.

by eastbayexpat on Oct 6, 2009 5:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping for Mike Cameron myself

I actually think Doolittle has a stronger resemblance to Swisher than Brown does.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're probably right

I will confess to a completely emotional response to Corey Brown. I think I’ve become slightly intoxicated with his upside.

That being said, it would be perfectly adequate if he managed to become Mike Cameron circa 1999-present :)

by eastbayexpat on Oct 6, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't mean that as some kind of slag

I think Mike Cameron is awesome. He’s one of the great underrated players of the last 10 years.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I got it

I should have noted that I meant “perfectly adequate” rather ironically. I do love me some Mike Cameron. If Corey Brown were to reach that level for the A’s, I would be jumping for joy.

by eastbayexpat on Oct 6, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

re

Mike Cameron might be the best defensive CF of all time. I don’t think anybody has Corey Brown pegged as having that kind of potential. Swisher probably is a better comp.

by AgitationStation on Oct 6, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

re

not that Swisher is a perfect comp, ftr. Brown is not going to walk like that, but should give a little more defense.

by AgitationStation on Oct 6, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All time?

Whoa, there, cowboy.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

like even over Torii Hunter or Cool Papa Bell?

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 6, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm another irrational Corey lover.

I have a feeling that means I won’t have to ponder some of the more interesting decisions for the next few rounds, because if I vote Corey Brown for #5, I’m probably voting him again for #6, #7, #8, and #9 while the others guys get in line in front of him.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 6, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Turns out that's pretty common if you do these things regularly

I think I voted six or seven times for Sean Doolittle last season, four or five times for Demel, and four or five times for Ronny Morla.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I remember a few stretches like that last year, too.

It’s perfectly logical. Once you pick a guy, if he doesn’t win you would always keep picking him. Unless you change your mind and decide your earlier vote was wrong.

DFA is probably going to log quite a few Donaldson votes starting now. ;-)

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 6, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn straight

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It will make all the Desme fans mad at me

But he’s a similar player with similar upside, only he’s only a couple of months older, healthier and has played and proven himself at higher level.

I’m also pretty sure he’s a better defender though I don’t have ready proof available

by eastbayexpat on Oct 7, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He didn't post the numbers Desme did

I am going to stick with the thought that Desme has more upside, but Brown certainly has more of a track record. I’m not sure we can make too many judgements on their defense at this point.

by DrDoom on Oct 7, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

The entire “Grant Desme has more upside that Corey Brown thing” is premised on pointing to a single year in A+ and considering it highly meaningful because otherwise he performs about as well as Brown did except he’s a year older when he does it.

As for defense, Corey Brown profiles as a plus defender in the corners and an average defender in center. Grant Desme, as I understand, manages the corners and really looks better at 1B. Again, I don’t know, but the positional adjustment alone would account for a tremendous difference in value.

by eastbayexpat on Oct 7, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I though Desme played above average corners?

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe?

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen Desme as more or less okay in the corners, but I can’t vouch for the date or the source. So count that one a maybe/maybe not.

I still prefer Brown’s offensive record especially given the age differential.

by eastbayexpat on Oct 7, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Check out the Desme post

Seems to be some indications that he is a good defender that just needed time to get used to the OF since he used to be an infielder.

He is not a 1B…. I’ve never seen that mentioned.

by DrDoom on Oct 7, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He use to be an infielder five years ago

and played in the OF in college.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weeks over Desme, Oh, Please!

For 2009 in Stockton for direct comparison:
Weeks OPS 853 …….very good
Desme OPS 1054….monster, and only 30-30 guy in the ENTIRE MINOR LEAGUES!

We need hitting. We need hitting. We need hitting.

by redtopcowboy on Oct 6, 2009 8:36 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Flawless argument

If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.

by NateHST on Oct 6, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My mind jumped to monster truck show announcer

Only 30-30 guy in the ENTIRE MINOR LEAGUES!!!! SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!!!

by DiegoAsFan on Oct 6, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well then I'll help you out

we only need one more rec in order to FINISH HIM!

by colin on Oct 6, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

done

Although I prefered Killer Instinct over Mortal Kombat.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Oct 6, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

FATALITY.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Oct 6, 2009 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

shaun rogers and jay cutler
see more Sports Pictures

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Oct 7, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Age would be the factor there

But there is some sense to the arguement, I grant you.

by DrDoom on Oct 6, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weeks over Desme

Higher positional value
Younger
Less injury concern
Strikeout rate

by DeJay on Oct 7, 2009 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to go with Kevin Goldstein on this...

Tyson Ross is going to break out next year. He’s my #4, just ahead of Leon.

Weeks, Brown and Ynoa need to do a better job of staying healthy. Desme put up monster numbers but he was a little old for both leagues, AA will really tell the tell. Donaldson doesn’t have a defensive home and it’s too early for Green.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 6, 2009 8:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What's your view on Ross's ability to stay healthy?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 6, 2009 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The A's tweaked Ross's delivery in 2008 partially because of injuries past

He seems to have taken to those changes and was a horse from May through the end of this year. He’s a probably a higher injury risk than your typical AA SP prospect but not by much. Personally, if he can make it through the down time of this offseason and comes in healthy to start next year then I’m going to quit worrying about the injury factor beyond the normal “it ain’t natural to use your arm like that” kind of way.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 6, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it just me

or does Ross look like he would throw about 120mph if he actually took a full stride when he delivers the ball?

(Image stoled from driveline mechanics. KYLE BODDY RULES)

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 6, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That can't be his normal delivery, can it?

He’s striding like 80% and not following through at all, he’s basically upright at the end of delivery.

"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything that I thought it could be." -- Peter Gibbons

by dtownmbrown on Oct 6, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's his normal delivery

mikev is exaggerating slightly but I have no doubt that a perfect-mechanics version of Tyson Ross would routinely hit triple digits.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's shocking.

Longer stride and a full follow through were pounded into my head by the time I was 10 years old.

"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything that I thought it could be." -- Peter Gibbons

by dtownmbrown on Oct 6, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's new to pitching

If I remember correctly, he was a shortstop until sometime in his college career, when he converted to pitcher. I think that his delivery may have been ever further in the direction of “all arm” until this last year, with A’s minor league coaches working on him.

by colin on Oct 6, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he looks like a catcher throwing to 2nd base

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Oct 6, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he looks like he's scap loading big time...

and as we all know, campers, that’s a shoulder injury waiting to happen.

Excuse me, I have to sneeze…

ma… ma.. ma…
Mark Prior!

Better now.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 6, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not even the big problem.

Notice the ridiculous inverted W, it’s actually slightly paused during that part of his delivery.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 6, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the inverted W is the scap load.

The inverted W is the shape that a pitcher makes if they have hyperabduction in their pitching arm side elbow during the scap load.

But it’s all technical jargon, and everybody agrees what it means: Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Oct 6, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not everyone

but enough that it is generally considered a bad sign.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

based on essentially no data

It’s all theoretical at this point. Even the people who are looking at it diligently are a far way off from presenting a strong and supported argument.

by AgitationStation on Oct 6, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want to see Josh Outman come back

with his goofy over-the-head delivery. That would be fun.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 6, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kyle Boddy over at Driveline Mechanics actually kind of endorsed it.

Well, “endorse” is probably a little much, but he did acknowledge that it makes sense, biomechanically. I don’t know about the quality of the pitches that come out of it, but I’d imagine the deception would be interesting.

No way in hell anyone lets him, unfortunately.

Lay down, black gives way to blue.
Lay down, I'll remember you.

by danmerqury on Oct 6, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here we go.

http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2008/12/4/679573/strange-mechanics-zach-and

This is his brother, Zach. Same mechanics, though.

Lay down, black gives way to blue.
Lay down, I'll remember you.

by danmerqury on Oct 6, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The interview linked from that page

is awesome. I love how blunt Josh is when asked about it. When they ask him about advantages and disadvantages, he says that switching to conventional mechanics put more stress on his arm and set him back, while really the only advantage of switching is that no one would sign him if he didn’t.

If he’s ever going to switch back, it seems like coming off major surgery would be a good time to do it.

Billy Beane was willing to be unconventional with guys like Chad Bradford and Brad Ziegler. Why not try unconventional in the other direction with Josh Outman?

If Josh is eager — and it sounds like he still would be — why not take a gamble on something out of the ordinary? It’s just one guy. We’ve got several interesting young pitchers. It’s not like we’re risking the entire rotation.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 6, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's one of the reasons why I love Josh Outman.

You know, aside from being a sucker for unconventionality and the ridiculously cool name. He’s got the balls to come out and say that his behind-the-head delivery was better, and yet he’s mature enough to realize that he wasn’t going to get a shot at pro baseball with it. Rare for a high schooler, no doubt.

I’d love to see the new delivery, but sadly, I really don’t see it happening. Right after surgery is a good time, yes, but after his great successes earlier this season, I just don’t see Beane risking it to try the new delivery.

Also, I don’t know how effective it would actually be. You’d get almost no lateral motion in your pitches. Of course, though, it may not matter. If Kilby can dominate hitters simply by tucking his hand behind his waist, even with mediocre stuff, Outman could be on to something.

Lay down, black gives way to blue.
Lay down, I'll remember you.

by danmerqury on Oct 6, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't fully understand how those mechanics work.

What happens when he needs to go out of the stretch? Or is that out of the stretch? If it is, he’s slow as hell to the plate.

Can a batter look at the grip of the ball in his hand, and know what’s coming?

And finally, is that really better for your arm?

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Oct 6, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

DId you follow the links and

read the background stories? They say the motion came out of a study of biomechanics, and they act like they’ve thought it through.

Is it really better? Damned if I know. Off the top of my head I’d guess it really does protect health of the arm better, but probably doesn’t result in more success in the game.

I’d just like to give it a try and see what happens. I want to say to Josh: “OK, kid, if you really and truly believe this is better, go ahead and prove it to me.” If there’s a fundamental flaw, let the competition reveal it.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 6, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure did.

Still confused as hell. Although I kinda skimmed it while I do astronomy hw, so I probably missed my answers.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Oct 6, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One interesting thing about that delivery

is that it’s almost certainly smarter for lefthanded starters to adopt it than righthanders.

Why? I’ll leave the exercise to the readers overnight.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm.

First thought: Tucking your hands behind your head is really exaggerated and would take far longer than the normal windup. A baserunner on first could get a massive jump, everytime. A RHP using this delivery would get stolen on all the time. A LHP could negate this, to a degree.

Lay down, black gives way to blue.
Lay down, I'll remember you.

by danmerqury on Oct 6, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even better

Since the first part of the motion is basically upright and lifting the ball over your head, until you actually step forward, the runner can’t really go. Besides, a loogy who can get outs will always find a job.

CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."

by DMOAS on Oct 6, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To clarify, I'm talking about starters only here

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was my response as well

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, here's why

Extreme overhead deliveries— and this one is as extreme as any I’ve ever seen— produce lower platoon splits. Extreme sidearm deliveries produce higher platoon splits (see, eg, Ziegler).

If you are a lefthanded starter, most of the opposing hitters have a platoon advantage. Neutralizing that factor is generally going to improve your pitching skill all else being equal.

The reverse is true as a righthanded starter. Neutralizing platoon splits is usually a bad thing, because most hitters you’ll face will have a platoon disadvantage.

The thing about keeping runners on base is very true, but it applies equally to starters and relievers— and lefthanded relievers might want to develop a more sidearm delivery instead, in order to become more useful as situational pitchers.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Makes me wonder about the cause of the platoon splits

and how much of it is caused be field of vision.

CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."

by DMOAS on Oct 7, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that makes sense

but hopefully he keeps improving, because I agree with PT and mikev that he is not utilizing the full potential he has with the current mechanics. I think triple digits wouldn’t be far out of the question.

"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything that I thought it could be." -- Peter Gibbons

by dtownmbrown on Oct 6, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should I vote Weeks or Green? or Leon?

Someone convince me.

Weeks: I love him but I worry about his injuries and didn’t do that well in AA.

Green: Hasn’t done anything yet, but he’s a polished college hitter with major upside (average defensive SS, above average hitter is extremely good).

Leon: Love his numbers, but can someone give me a scouting report?

I’m leaning Green at the moment because I think he’s got the biggest upside, but I’m very swayable.

(And no, DFA, no Donaldson yet. Sorry. He’ll be up soon though.)

by Elston Gunn on Oct 6, 2009 8:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Vote Ross instead and ease your troubled mind

Leon’s scouting report…

Low-90’s fastball, big curve that might be his best pitch. Solid command but is short and tends to get under his pitches. Excellent experience considering his age. Pitched in Mexico before signing with the A’s in a league that’s the experience equivalent to AAA. Has pretty much pitched non-stop for the last 2 years but primarily as a RP. How will he hold up as a SP over a full season? Will probably (and this is my own opinion) start next year in Midland’s rotation but a strong showing in Winter Ball/Spring Training could easily push him to Sacramento.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 6, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I went with Green.

I think people are seriously underselling his upside. This guy was the consensus number 2 pick in the draft before this season, and even though his year was mediocre, I think his previous status is an indication of how good he can be. If he’s a .340 wOBA hitter with average SS defense, that’s a star. I don’t think the gap in upside between Green and, say, Desme, is all that large, though to be fair the gap in flameout potential may not be that large either.

Probably Weeks, then Leon next. Ross/Donaldson/Brown in some order after. Then Ynoa, then Desme. Though that could all change.

by Elston Gunn on Oct 6, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever floats your boat

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 6, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a little bothered by Green's college numbers

(Yes, this is being really picky).

He never had the Matt Wieters/Mark Teixiera/Jason Varitek superhuman college season. If Green’s head and shoulders above regular college players, why didn’t this happen? (Boredom? Putting too much pressure on himself? Enjoying USC coeds?)

If he had hit better in college, I’d put him at #4 right now. Then again, if he hit better in college, he wouldn’t have fallen to our pick.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Oct 6, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've got the same concern.

Although admittedly, I don’t know a whole lot about college ball so if I’m wrong don’t be surprised. I know that the Pac 10 is a tough league, and USC’s stadium is a pitchers yard, but Green’s numbers still don’t jump out at me. There kinda Cliff Pennington esque in a way, and Green’s isop in college was actually lower than Pennington’s. That combined with a scouting report talking about his inside out approach has just made me think Cliff Pennington.

It should be noted that I don’t really know what I’m talking about, so if someone could inform me, I’d appreciate it.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Oct 6, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the biggest difference is that Green is 6’3", and Pennington is a wee little guy. Also, a lot of the hype for Green was his Cape Cod league performance last offseason where he was the mvp.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 6, 2009 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The A's have started putting much more emphasis on Cape Cod hitting numbers lately

See, eg, Dustin Coleman.

Remains to be seen whether that ends up being a good strategy, but at least it’s an organized strategy.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

makes sense too

first real test with wood bats against high level competition for most of these players.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Although apparently they didn’t really make a late play for Kyle Roller this year despite his MVP this year.

by DeJay on Oct 7, 2009 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pennington was good in the Cape Cod league as well.

I think he won (a bullshit) award. I dunno, I’m just not as sold on Green as others, I guess.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Oct 6, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it was a different award

I think Pennington one the equivalent of the “nice hustle” award while Green was more of an MVP deal. Not that either is an especially good predicter of future ability.

by DiegoAsFan on Oct 6, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ya I just looked it up,

Pennington won the 10th player award (even though he played full time, I think). He also put up nice stats, but not OMG stats like Green. I guess I see why people would be gaga over Green.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Oct 6, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ive got a bad feeling about this

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I should add that I have no fucking clue what Green is going to do,

and I think everyone from here to 9 is pretty close to interchangeable.

You’ve got a clear first tier: Carter, Cardenas, Wallace in some order.

Then a bunch who could go in any order and not have me be too upset: Green, Weeks, Leon, Desme, Brown, Ross, Donaldson, Ynoa, with Doolittle hanging around too.

by Elston Gunn on Oct 7, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can I put in a vote for enjoying USC coeds?

Better yet, can I go enjoy USC coeds?

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 7, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leon is reputed to be more of a control guy than a stuff guy

he’s young enough that he could potentially add velocity to his fastball (or maybe he already has since the last time I read about it.) Green’s offensive numbers in college are a bit worrisome (low BB, highish K, low HR power), but he has the most defensive value of any of these guys by far. And he’s not one of the relatively common no-power slap hitters you tend to see at SS.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 6, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted for Leon.

He’s young, and he knows how to pitch, not just throw.

Plus, my right brain gut feeling meter says that Weeks isn’t for real.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 6, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Leon

But I am not sure I can justify voting for him this high.

by DeJay on Oct 7, 2009 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Went with Weeks here; could have gone with several others and I put Green at #4 a couple weeks ago...

Midland line with playoffs included was .257/.329/.390. I think he will be a plus defender at 2B. I also like that he’s a switch hitter who is good from both sides of the plate.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 6, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

First really tough decision for me

I went with Jemile Weeks on this one, I considered a few guys here but I eventually ended up going with my gut as I really believe in Weeks.

His numbers in AA are going to cause a lot of people to pause, rightfully, but I think it’s worth noting that Weeks did not have a lot of professional exprience at lower levels and making the jump to AA is considered one of the toughest jumps even under normal circumstances. While his numbers suffered Weeks still managed to show decent plate discipline. The drop in BB-rate is a concern but it was paired with an equal drop in K-rate which suggests to me that he might have been pressing a bit and swinging more in his new environment.

Weeks doesn’t have as good a professional record as some of the choices but I think he has shown enough progress that we can project a lot of the skills that he showed before the draft to play in pro ball. I see a good defensive second baseman who has the ability to hit for a good average, will take a good number of walks, and has good speed on the basepaths. Injuries are a concern, but all the guys I considered here had concerns so I went with the guy who I believe will be an ideal lead-off hitter with good defensive value.

by DiegoAsFan on Oct 6, 2009 9:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ynoa till he gets on

I don’t see any other future all-stars here. I guess Weeks or Green might make it in a career year or something. But generally speaking, none of these other guys has the potential to be a big time difference maker.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 6, 2009 9:24 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

For what its worth

On Desme from ESPN:

Jim Callis:

“He’s a legitimate prospect. He just got hurt right before the A’s drafted him in 2007 and hasn’t been healthy until this year. Potential solid regular.”

Jason Grey:

“The final name is one you may have heard about because of the crazy numbers he’s put up in Class A this year.

Grant Desme is an outfielder in the A’s system who split the season between low Class A and high Class A. In 486 at-bats, Desme hit .288 with 31 homers and went 40-for-45 on the base paths. I’ll let those numbers sink in for a moment. Yes, he did indeed put up a 30/40 campaign.

At 23, Desme was not young for his level, but he was a second-round pick in 2007 out of Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo (two slots before the Marlins drafted Mike Stanton). He was viewed as a proverbial five-tool player, but this has basically been his first season as a pro due to injuries. He broke his wrist his senior year, and it flared up again after he was drafted, requiring surgery and limiting his pro time. He lasted just three at-bats last season after separating a shoulder trying to make a catch. However, the stats show he’s made up for lost time with a vengeance.

Desme’s bat does have the potential to hit for average along with plus power as he moves up the ladder, thanks to his great bat speed, the leverage he gets in his swing and ability to make adjustments at the plate. The book on him is that he can crush fastballs and changeups, but still swings through too many sliders and curves. Reports are that he handled them better than expected this year, but he still struck out 148 times. The stolen bases were a bit surprising, because he’s not blessed with great speed, but he has a great first step, excellent quickness and acceleration, and good instincts. He won’t keep up this pace as he moves up the ladder, but he’ll continue to get his share of bags. Power and speed combinations are always in demand, and Desme is definitely a sleeper to watch. He’ll be tested against better competition at the Arizona Fall League."

Not saying he should be 4th, but just that we can’t ignore him.

by DrDoom on Oct 6, 2009 9:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You got to provide a link to this stuff

Thats a ton of excerpting and you need to give credit

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Generally yes

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 6, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well if a moderator wants to delete the insider quote

and leave the link for those with access, then go ahead.

Sorry. I’m trying too hard to be helpful.

by DrDoom on Oct 6, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You had me at...

“I’ll let those numbers sink in for a moment.” I voted Desme

by Hang Man on Oct 6, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand how you "have the ability to make adjustments at the plate"

if you cant hit a breaking ball to save your life.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe have the ability to adjust to NOT swinging at them?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His K rate doesn't indicate that he has done that.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know, I'm clutching at straws here

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i couldn't tell if you were or being serious

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nomar the King of Adjustments.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

re

The K rate decreased as the season went on. Considering the rust, and general lack of baseball experience (didn’t play a ton in college either), it could be a mistake to put too much emphasis on the K rate the first two months of the season. 25% at Sacto is obviously a huge concern, but it’s not quite a glaring red flag.

by AgitationStation on Oct 6, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll let you argue with jason

But I would think that his batting average improvement as he was promoted was a sign of something…

by DrDoom on Oct 6, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah. That scouting report might've added to my skepticism

One of the biggest difference between minor league pitchers and major league ones is the development of good breaking stuff. If Desme is struggling with single-A curves and sliders…he’ll never see a fastball in the bigs. Those pitchers can throw you 5 straight sliders/curves for strikes. Single-A guys can’t locate their off speed nearly that well.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Oct 6, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good improvement with the numbers as the year went on.

In 259 AB in Low A ball he had 21 BB vs 81 SO
In 227 AB in High A ball he had 33 BB vs 67 SO

by Hang Man on Oct 6, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

From Kevin Goldstein on Desme

What I could find:

“I’ve been pretty impressed.”

“On Thursday, the Minor League Update alerted you of the impending 30/30 season from Desme, and instead of making us check the daily box scores waiting for the big blast, Desme just took care of it immediately, blasting a pair of bombs to give him 31 home runs to go with 40 stolen bases on the season, when you combine his stats from Stockton and Kane County. With 18 home runs and a .325 batting average in his past 52 games, he’s only getting better as the season rolls on. "

Again, not saying it means anything, just putting what little feedback on Desme thats available out there for all to see.

by DrDoom on Oct 6, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Link the articles or AN could be sued

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 6, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Link

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9460

the impressed quote was just a response in a chat.

by DrDoom on Oct 6, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are a lot of good choices here

I’m ultimately going with Weeks because of the favorable impressions of his ability that I’ve gotten from people like Melissa Lockard. I really like Doolittle for non-statistical reasons, I really like Leon for mostly statistical reasons, and Green has draft pedigree. Brown probably has ultimately the highest upside of anyone on this crew other than Ynoa, but he also has high flameout potential. Donaldson is a complete mystery to me skill-wise, but that doesn’t mean he’s not valuable, just that he could end up anywhere from star to complete bust and I wouldn’t be surprised.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 11:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Here is my problem with Weeks

a long history of leg injuries for a player that relies on speed is really not good.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he'd be a fairly easy choice if he didn't have the injury history

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is just behind Donaldson for me

I just worry about him having Reyes kinds of problems with his legs.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Isn’t that along the lines of: “If he didn’t get out so many times he’d be on base more”?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 6, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No-- that's a tautology

It can’t possibly not be true.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not too much of a practical difference here though

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 6, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure there is

If Dusty Napoleon didn’t have an injury history, he would still suck at everything but having an awesome name. (Actually, I have no idea if Dusty Napoleon has an injury history, but there must be some injury-prone organizational players in the system…)

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 6, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bobby Crosby?

Well I guess he isn’t in the organization anymore.

by DiegoAsFan on Oct 6, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You missed the word "here"

In the case of Weeks, there isn’t much difference. In the case of Dusty, as in “there,” it is a difference.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 7, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Grant Desme:2009::Rashun Dixon:2008

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Oct 6, 2009 11:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I heard a rumor that Josh Donaldson was pretty good

Im not sure where it came from though.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 12:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

ROFL

Knucklehead is not nearly used enough in everyday society anymore. Kudos you furry bastard :love:

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 6, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Charles Barkley agrees with this statement

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 6, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Charles Barkley is too busy driving drunk to the alleyway behind the bar so he can get a bj to be a knucklehead.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha. If I had a nickle for everytime...

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

The Awesomeness That Is Captain Jack -

Jackson on wanting to be on a winner: "I’m made for the playoffs and the championships. I’m Big Shot Jack. That’s what I do."

Jackson on wanting out after extension: "Who’s going to turn down that money? I didn’t go to college, but I’ve got a lot of common sense."

by kenntoe on Oct 6, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I stopped following his career in 2007

how can you fault me for over using his 2009 offensive statistics?

This is what we like to call a double turn.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aren't you supposed to be PT with a sense of humor?

I’m starting to doubt the accuracy of that scouting report.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 6, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But its from 2009! It must be right!

btw i did find the knucklehead part funny.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a scary scouting report

BA’s 2009 Prospect Handbook scouting report on Rashun Dixon mentions plus-plus speed and a strong arm. The guy who chatted up NWL prospects said Dixon had average range and a LF arm.

How Dixon went from the one end of the spectrum to the other is beyond me.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 6, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Considering he use to catch

I would think that he would have a strong arm.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure that scouting report was a flip comment

that got blown way out of proportion

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 6, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Woah woah woah

are you saying that scouts can be wrong? The saber guys never said my HAPT (humor above PT) was that high.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted for Josh Donaldson

I’m buying DFA’s argument. I have high hopes for Weeks though.

by sirbed on Oct 6, 2009 1:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! VICTORY!!!!!!!

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im the drunk sailor and sirbed is the unsuspecting nurse that proceeds to slap me as soon as this picture is done.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted Brown

Just because it makes me remember when Tejada first came up and Ron Washington said, “Miguel comes to us with all the five toos.”

I miss Ron Washington.

by jeffro on Oct 6, 2009 3:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

five toos would make ten!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 6, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, that would make Yahtzee!

and that’s worth fi’ty.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 6, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I went with Desme over Weeks simply by what both of them did this season. I mean, neither of them have seasons upon seasons of data to pull from; both have injury histories, and both played in similar leagues this season…but Desme just crushed the competition this season. He looks pretty legit. Weeks would be my #5, though.

Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!

by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 6, 2009 3:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We DO have seasons upon seasons of data to pull from!

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Oct 6, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry, that published on accident

the conclusion to that comment would be a look back at their college careers.

Desme wasn’t even good enough to crack the starting lineup at Cal Poly as a freshman. When he did play as a frosh, he wasn’t good.

Rickie Weeks played in the ACC and put up a 1.001 OPS as a freshman. Then he kicked ass for two more years, too.

The numbers Desme put up as a college junior, Weeks put up for three years…against better competition. Plus he’s a better athlete than Desme.

Week’s is my vote for #4.

 

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Oct 6, 2009 5:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Weeks

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Oct 6, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong one

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 6, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

shit, I quit

Even screwed up my edit. Step away from the computer, nsj.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Oct 7, 2009 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meh

College stats are worth about as much as RBIs

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 6, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

RBIs are not worth arguing with or about,

but that doesn’t mean that I don’t want lots and lots of them…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 6, 2009 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

They’re like college stats.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 7, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

or USC coeds!

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 7, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm assuming those stats are for Jemile not Rickie....

If so, nice points.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Oct 6, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes, my bad.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Oct 7, 2009 6:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

desme

desme got off to a slow start but absolutely owned the league his last year OPSing 1227. Weeks never matched that in spite of putting up pretty awesome numbers for 3 straight years.

by Livermore on Oct 6, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looked up Green's cape cod numbers

.348/.451/.547 in 161 ABs. 6 HRs. So that’s why his junior year was disappointing.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 6, 2009 9:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mickey Storey...

will replace Mortensen in the AFL

great year from an under-the-radar guy

Lockard at Scout.com:

Storey pitched for all four of the A’s full-season affiliates in 2009. In 41 appearances, Storey went 2-1 with a 1.22 ERA and 18 saves. He struck-out 71 and walked only eight in 51.2 innings. He also allowed only 27 hits and two homers. Storey was relied upon heavily by the Midland Rockhounds during the Texas League playoffs, making six appearances over eight playoff games, including a scoreless one-inning appearance in the championship clincher.

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Oct 7, 2009 7:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Punishment for Mortensen?

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 7, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe just legal issues

he might be stuck in California for court dates, etc.

by colin on Oct 7, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He should get punished

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

someone at the scout.com boards said it had been decided earlier that Mortensen wouldn't go because he was starting for the A's in Sep.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 7, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something for the next round

Per a recent interview with minor league pitching coordinator Gil Patterson:

DLS has had another set back, seems his elbow is hurting again.

Ynoa has played catch but he hasn’t thrown off the mound yet.

Brett Hunter got completely re-vamped mechanics and now his arm hurts.

Dan Thomas didn’t make instructs because of a sore shoulder.

Link.

(You’ll need a password to access the story, I’m just adding the link for possible legal purposes.)

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 7, 2009 7:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Fiddlesticks

Well, that drops DLS out of my top 10.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is why I didn't rank DLS higher

TJ is not nearly as easy to return to as people make it out to be

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Other DLS news

from Slusser:

Right-hander Fautino De Los Santos is having some soreness after he pitches, normal after elbow surgery, but he is being double-checked.

Doesn’t sound extremely serious if you ask me…

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 7, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does sound better that way.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 7, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still a negative

Well, I guess he’s still in my top 20.

We’re ranging in, at least…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something for next round

How about if we drop the last place vote getter from the next poll every round. That way there would always be 2 new players. The dropped player should have to sit out at least one round as punishment for not being very good.

by RayJEdd on Oct 7, 2009 11:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

next round

I would like to see some H-Rod, and Sam Demel

by RayJEdd on Oct 7, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah no

Relievers have extremely low upsides and neither of them is certain to be productive, either, given their command troubles.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

next round

we will be voting on #5 plus there will be 7 other choices. I am not calling either one of them the #5 prospect, but personally I think both those two should be in the top 12. What effect did Ziegler have on the team in 2008 and Bailey in 2009?

by RayJEdd on Oct 7, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think either of them is particularly close to the top 12

Doubtful that any A’s relievers are in the top 20, IMO, other than maybe Kilby.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Relievers or not, they have value. Rodriguez has already made top 10 lists for our organization so we can’t ignore them. Doesn’t mean we have to vote for them though, but they should be choices.

by DrDoom on Oct 7, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes we can ignore them

and should. Even the best relievers in the game have about the same value as a league average position player.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not disagreeing

But they should be options for people to vote on. If for no other reason than they have trade value.

by DrDoom on Oct 7, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

then why don't we carry

13 batters, 5 SP, and 7 league average position players? At some point a reliever is more valuable than another league average position player.

by RayJEdd on Oct 7, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

valuable to whom?

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is saying you need them on a roster

They have to come from somewhere.

by DrDoom on Oct 7, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

But you could trade some of those seven guys (and, of course, it’s an extreme example).

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 7, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that logic is sound.

It’s entirely possible that everyone who voted for the first-place guy happens to like the last-place guy next best after that. This would not show up in his votes for the current round.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 7, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But there is a certain likeliness to it.

Different voters have different patterns of preference. If player A and player E have a lot of qualities in common that players B, C, D and F don’t, then the same voters who like A are also going to like E.

If 60% of the voters like A best and E second best, none of those 60% are going to vote for E in the first round. The 40% who don’t like A are the same ones who don’t like E, so you’d have E kicked off the ballot for round 2 even though 60% of the voters think he’s second best.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 7, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh

It’s not logically possible to design a perfect voting system. This one allows for discussion along the way, so it’s probably better than just asking people to submit a Borda count list of their personal top 50. The point is more about the threads than about the results anyway.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is not true

The DFAtorship has a perfect voting system, only one vote gets counted.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mr. Arrow does not recognize the DFAtorship as a "voting system", sadly

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 8, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

are you talking about the muppet?

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 8, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No,

 the university professor.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 8, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah maybe if he did recognize it it wouldn't have taken himm so long to get a Nobel Prize

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 8, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't

I’m totally on board with that. Or even setting a quota (below 5% = off).

I’d much rather give people room to vote for a wide range of candidates. Otherwise the choice of who gets on is too powerful.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 8, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think that makes for too much strategic voting.

I think if people just comment who they want on next that is a better solution.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 8, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not opposed to kicking off the lowest vote getter

if there’s reason to believe others are more worthy of the spot.

I just oppose automatically always kicking off the lowest one just because it’s the lowest.

Over all, I think Zonis using his judgment based on general discussion in the comments is best. With eight candidates on every list, I don’t foresee it ever being a problem.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 8, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very unlikely that the lowest vote-getter would be more likely to win the next one than the best non-listed guy

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 8, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

I think iglew is trying to say that everyone that likes Weeks best will probably like Tyson Ross second best. I think he is wrong. I suspect Ross will recieve less votes next round than whoever new gets added.

by RayJEdd on Oct 8, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arnold Leon

I like the age, I like the strikeout to walks ratio, and I like the level Leon’s at relative to his age. To me, everyone on the current list (after the first three already ranked), while they have a chance to make the big club, also have obvious reasons why they may not make the club (others in front of them, too early in the system, injuries, etc.). But Leon, I don’t see anything that stands in his way of making his way onto the major league roster, sooner rather than later. I know that we’re ranking them on abilities rather than on how soon they’ll arrive, but I just think he’s the player on this list with the fewest unknowns and a solid, high ceiling.

chronic

by Since1972 on Oct 7, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

One thing that stands between him reaching the bigs "sooner" is innings count

He has never pitched more than about 80 innings in a season. If they step him up by 30 innings a year it’ll be 2012 before he’s able to handle even a 5th starter’s workload.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What kind of innings did he have in Mexico?

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 7, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Light

Never more than about 45, I think.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 7, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hm

Yes he should definitely be stretched out. But I wouldn’t want Leon in the majors before 2012 anyway so it’s all good in my hood.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 7, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you combining winter league innings in there

because if he puts some innings in with winterball you could accelerate that slightly.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take Henry Rodriguez over Leon or Ross

and Doolittle over Brown.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 7, 2009 1:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

he's been yelled at about Henry so much that I think he is probably deaf at this point

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 7, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

For the next round

I’d like to see one of either Doolittle, Everidge or Cunningham on the ballot.

by Bogartsdad on Oct 7, 2009 3:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Doolittle sounds fair.

But Cunningham has already burned through his rookie eligibility (130 AB limit, also, 45 days on the active roster). And Everidge? Really? He old.

Lay down, black gives way to blue.
Lay down, I'll remember you.

by danmerqury on Oct 7, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everidge and Cunningham aren't eligible

Cunningham because of playing time restrictions, since he is no longer a prospect.

Everidge because of suck and/or playing time.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everidge is eligible and worthy of a spot since this list goes to 40 or something

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 7, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude I was being sarcastic.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 7, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, gunna call it.

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Oct 7, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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