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Pitching, Defense, Power & Depth: Taj's Plan for 2010


Now that my disappointment from this past season has somewhat subsided and I've gathered my thoughts as to what I think this team needs going into the winter, I'm going to attempt to put down on (virtual) paper my plan for making the A's more competitive in 2010 than they were in 2009.

First off, I'm going to admit that some of my plan involves a bit of "wishful thinking" and "sentimentality". From my perspective, 2010 will be the last time that we as fans will likely see life-long A's Eric Chavez and Mark Ellis wear the Oakland uniform (at least as players). Both guys have been class-acts both on and off the field, have represented the organization extremely well and have played instrumental roles on the field over the past decade in creating some of the best memories us fans have of this team. While I don't think that the future should be mortgaged or tens of million should be spent just to ensure that the last year of Ellis and Chavez in Oakland is a memorable one, I do think that some efforts should be made to give this team some hope of contention in 2010 before a full wave of youth overruns this organization and ushers in a totally new era of A's baseball.

In short...I think a component of the 2010 season will be the symbolic "passing of the torch" from the Big 3/Chavez/Ellis era to the Suzuki/Wallace/Carter/Anderson era, and the construction of the roster should reflect that gradual transition through the season. I would like to give these guys one last chance to win in an Oakland uniform, while still keeping the door open for the guys that should comprise the next great A's team once they prove they are fully major league ready.

Without further ado...

Star-divide

1. 40 Man Roster Maneuvering: To prepare for the off-season moving and shaking, the 40-man roster will need to be set with any Rule V eligible guys and potential free agents/dead weight will need to be jettisoned, while DL guys will need to be reinstated. With all that being said, I think two Rule V guys will need to be added (Chris Carter & Pedro Figueroa). At the same time, some dead weight should be removed from the roster such as Casilla, Reinecke, Carson and Denorfia.

Casilla- because he's just not that good and will arby-eligible for the first time this winter.

Reinecke- because I hope the A's will not consider him worthy of a big league job.

Carson- nice story and all but he doesn't have much of a future with this team or with MLB baseball.

Denorfia- just can't stay healthy enough to contribute.

When all the free agents (Tomko, Duke, Crosby, Nomar, Kennedy) file for free agency, they will also be removed from the roster.  By my reckoning, that will leave 4 open spots on the 40-man, assuming that all arby guys (Cust, Devine, Rajai) are tendered contracts and retained.

2. A's trade Jeff Gray to D-Backs for Eric Byrnes + $9 million: I'm going to start off my maneuverings by explaining my most sentimental/most potentially controversial move.  Byrnes will likely bring a spunk to this team and a link to the recent glorious past, but he could also be utilized effectively for this 2010 team. Byrnes has always performed well against lefties. Even in his mostly ineffective 2009, he slugged .494 against them and in recent years he's averaged a .470+ slugging against them. The A's were dead-last in slugging in the AL last season, so he brings a needed corner power bat. Byrnes also brings some speed on the basepaths and has been a pretty decent fielder in left over the course of his career (as per UZR). I see him as the righty-portion of a left-field platoon with Cust, whom he'll also replace defensively and on the basepaths late in games. Will the money involved, he'll also only cost the team $2 million in salary.

The D-Backs are on the verge of releasing Byrnes and would surely jump at the chance to unburden themselves of even a fraction of the money still owed to him, while picking up a decent reliever in Gray that could immediately help their pen.

3. A's trade Scott Hairston & Michael Wuertz to Atlanta for Kenshin Kawakami, then Kawakami & Eric Patterson to Milwaukee for JJ Hardy: I brought this idea up in another thread, and it was met with some resistance. I see it as a pretty fair trade for all involved. Atlanta is looking for a right-handed hitting outfield bat, while looking to shed some salary and open up a rotation spot for Tim Hudson, who they'll likey re-sign. With two of their late-inning relievers eligible for free agency, the Braves could also use Wuertz, who is likely at the peak of his value right now.

The Brewers are looking for stating pitching of all stripes, but mainly guys that they can plug-in behind Yovani Gollardo to provide some decent production and eat innings. Kawakami's no ace, but he performed fairly well in his introduction to American ball, is signed reasonably for two more seasons (about $13.5 million) and with some tutelage from new pitching coach Rick Peterson, could easily blossom into a reliable mid-rotation type.

(Some have insinuated that the A's should just keep Kawakami instead of trading him to the Brewers...I disagree. Kawakami may have performed adaquately in the non-DH league, but I think he'd take a hit moving to the AL and the A's have several young starters that have the talent to quickly blossom into much-better starters than Kawakami at a fraction of the cost.)

My argument for pursuing Hardy is as follows: I don't think Cliff Pennington is a starting caliber shortstop for a competitive team, no matter what Billy Beane says to the media. His defense, according to both my own eyes and his small sample size defensive-metrics, indicate that he is not a great defenisve shortstop and his minor league track record indicates that it's very very unlikely that he continues to slug over .400 as he gets more at-bats in the majors. Hardy, even after his ugly 2009 with the bat, remains a very solid defensive shortstop who, in my opinion, is much more likely to hit for power in 2010 (since he's done it for most of his career) than is Cliff Pennington- who has not. Furthermore, groundballing youngsters like Anderson, Cahill, Mazzaro and even Mortensen deserve a top-notch defensive middle infield at the very least, and with Hardy, the A's will have that.

Keep in mind also a relatively minor, but interesting fact: the A's returning hitting coach Jim Skaalen was Milwaukee's hitting coach in both 2007 and 2008, coincidentally, the two best offensive seasons of Hardy's career, where he averaged 25 homers, 76 RBI, 162 hits and hit about .280 overall. It's worth noting that a reunion between Hardy and Skaalen could at least lead to some constructive work towards getting Hardy back to that type of production. Although, it's possible Hardy will just improve all on his own.

4. A's sign Troy Glaus (1-year, $6.75 million) and re-sign Adam Kennedy (1-year, $1.25 million with second year $1.75 million option/$250,000 buyot): Nothing like getting the old-2002 ANAHEIM Angels band back together, right? In all seriousness...after looking at Glaus's stats over the past few years, I started to get really excited. He's exactly the type of addition this offense needs. He takes walks, hits for a decent average and even in his down (post-steroid?) years, is bascially a lock to hit over 20 homers. The health and age factors apply to Glaus, but I think he's a decent risk at under $8 million. He's nothing special with the glove at 3rd, but in recent years, he's been about average it seems, according to UZR.

I know, I know, Kennedy got really lucky with BABIP in 2009, will never OPS close to .758 ever again, is a poor defender, is a bad person, chews tobacco, sets a bad example for children, etcetera, etcetera...however, I still think it's would be a fairly good idea to bring him back. I definitely forsee Kennedy regressing next season, probably back to his career norms, something like .280/.340/.380. Yet, I also see him transitioning into an ultra-poor man's version of Mark DeRosa (without the power). Kennedy showed that he could at least handle 3rd base on a part time basis in 2009...he was definitely over-exposed there by the end of the year, but with a full off-season of practice, he could improve over there and be an adequate insurance policy for Glaus/Chavez and/or an adequate placeholder for Wallace/Cardenas. He could also spell Ellis at 2nd occasionally and has some experience in the outfield corners, where he could also take reps-at during the off-season and Spring Training to add a bit more utility to his game. If he plays adequate defense at the corners in limited playing time, steals some bases and puts-together some decent at-bats, then I think he'll be a solid contributor and valuable asset, especially since he'll likely only play a prominent role on the team in the beginning of the season as the team awaits the blossoming of Wallace and Carter. PLUS...the guy actually LIKES playing in Oakland and wants to be an Athletic! That's just unheard of!

5. Re-sign Justin Duchscherer (1-year, $4.5 million + $3.5 million in performance incentives) and re-sign Brett Tomko to a split major/minor league contract ($500,000 for minorleague portion, $1 million for major league portion): The Duke is such an odd-case, some might even call it an unprecedented case. A guy who's talent is undeniable but is afflicted with such a debilitating malady that really has no medically-based timetable for recovery (if one can ever really "recover" from clinical depression in the first place). I have no idea when Duke may be ready psychologically to return to a big-league mound...all I know is, looking at things from Duke's perspective and the A's perspective, whenever he does feel comfortable returning, coming back to Oakland would seemingly be a good fit for him both professional and personally.

Think about it...he's familiar with the organization and the park and facilities and whatnot...it's a completely no-pressure situation for him, since the team is coming off three straight subpar seasons and will likely not have a ton of money or resources dedicated to making the playoffs at all costs...the A's play in a perfect home park for a guy that puts a lot of balls in play...the A's have the payroll flexibility to offer him more guaranteed money than other teams that might just offer him more incentives...the A's have been willing to use him in any role on the pitching staff where he'd be most successful...and last but not least, the FANS will most definitely re-embrace him, knowing his history and easing him back into dominance!

As for Tomko...he pitched reasonably for the A's last season and is also somewhat of a perfect fit for Oakland Coliseum as a guy traditionally bedeviled by the long ball but that has decent stuff and pounds the strikezone. His arm tweekage of late this season is troubling, so I doubt he'll have suitors lining up around the corner to offer him a major league deal, but I think a split contract that offers him some guaranteed cash and the legitimate opportunity to break camp with the team from Spring Training should be a solid incentive for him to come back to the A's and provide some depth.

6. Start Carter, Wallace and Mazzaro in AAA: Carter and Wallace should get a month or two of additional seasoning in AAA to start 2010, mainly so that they can work on the defensive side of things and also so that they can get in an offensive rythm in a lower-pressure situation than the big leagues. Mazzaro really flamed out at the end of his major league stint in 2009 and succumbed to injury , so he could also use some low-pressure innings to start the year and get back into ryhthm. Should Duke need an extended time to return to the mound or another starter goes down, Mazzaro can step right back up into the MLB rotation.

When all is said and done, here's how the roster shapes up:

Starters:

1 - Braden (deserves to be Opening Day Starter again due to last season's success & ascension of leadership)

2 - Duke

3 - Anderson

4 - Cahill

5 - Gio

Bullpen:

6 - Bailey

7 - Devine

8 - Ziggy

9 - Meloan

10 - Breslow

11 - Blevins

12 - Kilby

Outfield

13 - Byrnes

14 - Cust (DH/LF)

15 - Sweeney

16 - Rajai

Infield

17 - Glaus

18 - Hardy

19 - Ellis

20 - Barton

21 - Suzuki

Bench

22 - Powell

23 - Kennedy

24 - Chavez (DH)

25 - Pennington

By my pretty liberal estimations of projected salaries, that roster would cost just a bit over $51 million dollars, even including Giambi's $1.25 million buyout. That's more than $10 million less than opening day payroll in 2009 and would generally re-set payroll obligations to 2003-levels. I think that number is perfectly do-able, even considering last season's pitiful attendance.

As far as projected lineups, I'd go with this, against righties:

CF - Rajai

RF - Sweeney

DH - Chavez (yes, this is part of my sentimental/wishful thinking line of thought)

3B - Glaus

LF - Cust

C - Suzuki

1B - Barton

SS - Hardy

2B - Ellis

Against lefties:

CF - Rajai

2B - Ellis

LF - Byrnes

3B - Glaus

C - Suzuki

DH - Cust

SS - Hardy

1B - Barton

RF - Sweeney

This is far from a perfect team, filled with plenty of health question marks and my plan is fairly reliant on a few guys regaining past forms (Cust, Byrnes, Hardy. Chavez)...however, I think this roster at least has the potential to click together well and really boost the offensive side of things for the A's in 2010, while keeping the pitching staff on track to remain the strong-suit of the organization going forward. The middle of the order has some 20+ homer bats from both sides of the plate, and there is some speed at the top of the order, and there is some length to the lineup with a (hopefully) rebounding Hardy and a (hopefully) more developed Barton.

The outfield is a little thin depth-wise, but in this situation, Sweeney can cover center in the event Raj goes down or is ineffective, Byrnes can take a more full-time role if need be and Kennedy can cover left in an emergency.  At the same time, Buck and Cunningham will presumably be in Sacramento, ready to fill in whenever necessary, while Carter and Doolittle will likely also be available should ineffectiveness or injury open up an opportunity in the outfield.

In the infield, you've got a capable 2-person depth at every position (Kennedy at 3rd, Pennington at short and 2nd, Powell at 1st) and you can rotate several guys (Chavez, Glaus, Cust) through the DH slot for specific matchups and to give guys days off in the field.

In the bullpen, I like this configuration of 3 lefties, since all 3 lefties can get righties out and go multiple innings. Meloan is a much better garbage-time/middle reliever than Casilla or others of the recent past while still possessing the ability to be a quality set-up guy, while Ziggy, Devine and Bailey can split-up late inning duties with ease. Demel, Mortensen, Marshall and H-Rod will all be in AAA in case of need.

The offense is rebuilt here without making a short-term play like the Holliday deal last season...the big move, for Hardy, is one where two useful but "getting expensive older guys" are exchanged for someone that fills a position of need while still being young enough and talented enough to be a major piece of a playoff team in 2010 or 2011.

And I think that this type of roster gives the A's a chance to contend from the get-go next season and run with what they've got right now, rather than rushing a couple of prospects (Wallace, Carter) up to the show when they could still refine their overall games with some time in the minors. At the same time, once these guys are ready, there shouldn't be any huge impediments on the major league roster for them to overcome...if Wallace is ready in May or June, then he can take over 3rd and Glaus (if healthy) can move to DH or 1st, ditto for Chavez...and if Carter is ready, he can supplant Barton or the Cust/Byrnes platoon in left or even Sweeney if he doesn't start hitting for power. On the pitching side, Josh Outman should be ready at some point in the 2nd half of the season, at which point he and/or Mazzaro could easily bolster the big league starting rotation.

In short, what I'm saying is: bring in a few guys to give this team some depth and some chance to compete from the get-go next season without sacrificing any young players and for an overall minimal cost. Bring-in fan-favorite Byrnes to give the team a little personality and some lefty-mashing. Tighten up the middle infield defense with Hardy, add some depth to the starting rotation and roll with it. If it works and people stay healthy, great, you've got a good little team. If it doesn't, wait a little bit for Wallace and Carter and then play it from there...which was the main plan anyway...

I don't think this an infallible plan...but I think it's a much more palatable version of the strategy Beane tried to employ last season, with the added benefit of a full season of maturation for the young players that were so green last year...I think it could work...but then again, I think it all could blow up and fall apart...but, while the cost is just a couple fungible assets and a few million dollars, I think the team should try it out...

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Whilst I don't agree with many of your specific moves

(I have no real interest in seeing Byrnes or Kennedy back in Oakland next year, for instance), I think the approach you espouse (creating some good depth, not getting tied to long term expense) is the right one.

As for the JJ Hardy deal – well, I have no idea if that’s balanced, for any team involved, but if he somehow ended up in the Green and Gold? Boners up!

The moving of relievers is definitely something that should happen, though I’d be suprised if Beane does trade Hairston right now (might be selling low, somewhat? I could easily be mistaken on this).

by bobnothing on Oct 30, 2009 8:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The bottom line is who would not take J.J. Hardy for Weurtz, Hairston & Patterson?

I would make that deal any day of the week & twice on Sunday! Last year we were talking about giving up one of the big two, (Cahill or Anderson) for J.J. and to get him for spare parts would be awesome!

PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves

by adragon on Oct 31, 2009 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

I see Wuertz/Hairston/Patterson as a pretty strong overpay on our part. Hardy is almost dead weight to Milwaukee now. The Cahill/Anderson proposal was when he OPS’ed .820 as a plus-defensive young shortstop. After a .650 OPS season ending in AAA, I wouldn’t pay those three for him.

Plus, Hairston’s trade value is at its lowest right now. Now is not the time.

And your dream, absolve.
And your path, dissolve.

by danmerqury on Oct 31, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 31, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

about Cahill

I have been fairly well convinced by the arguments that Cahill should start the season in AAA. Any comments on why you have him in the Oakland rotation? Is it the case that you think he belongs there in terms of skill/development/etc, or just that you think it would be politically impossible to demote him after a full year in the majors?

by colin on Oct 30, 2009 8:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't see how it would be any more "politically possible" to demote Mazzaro

Especially when you consider that Mazzaro actually had an excuse (other than "being poor at pitching) for some of his second-half performance.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well thought out, but I don't know that I'd make the exact personnel moves.

1. Byrnes – I’d probably do that. Byrnes for 2M isn’t a bad option, but why not just let Buck and Cunningham fight it out for left field, along with Rajai and Sweeney in center and right? We’re assuming Jack Cust is full time DH here, correct?

2. JJ Hardy – This essentially boils down to Weurtz, Hairston, and Patterson for JJ Hardy. I think that’s a significant overpayment on the A’s part. While it would be nice to have Hardy, Oakland is the wrong place for him to rediscover his offense. Weurtz by himself was a 2.4 WAR player last year, and Hardy was 1.9 — no, I don’t expect those figures to be repeated next year, but I think adding two more players to Weurtz makes the deal bad for Oakland. If Atlanta is giving up a prospect along wth Kawakami, I like the deal more.

3. Glaus/Kennedy. Glaus I wouldn’t mind, but I want no part of Adam Kennedy coming back, and I don’t believe he’d take a 1+1 deal after the fluke season he just had. He’s going to want one more decent FA contract before he retires IMO.

4. Duke. As much as I loved watching the guy pitch, he’s both an injury risk AND potentially not mentally prepared to play again. I don’t see any reason to offer him a guaranteed 4.5 million dollars, and really I don’t think he’s in any position to demand that considering he did not throw a pitch last year, and hasn’t exactly been the picture of health in 2007 and 2008. I’d offer him a low base salary deal with fairly large escalators based on starts made or IP or something to that effect.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 8:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Cust

Taj has Cust in left field against RHP (so that’s like 75% of the games, right?). The reason is to get Chavez at-bats in the DH spot. While Chavvy is (or at least was) a good hitter against righties, I am doubtful that he is really good enough to justify putting Cust in the field. I guess I’m basically of the opinion that if Chavez can only DH, then his value is close to zero. We already know that he can’t hit lefties and I have a hard time accepting this idea of a Cust/Chavvy DH platoon (they both hit left handed and Cust really shouldn’t play outfield).

by colin on Oct 30, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to agree in regards to Chavez...

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't. Pretending Chavez doesn't exist is silly, IMO

He does exist and he will get paid his salary. You don’t have to depend on him to say, “He exists and if he’s healthy enough he’s the Plan A and if not here’s Plan B.” Counting on him may be silly, but no more so than pretending he doesn’t exist.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes!

you have a very good point…

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

then Plan B needs to be robust and ready to go immediately

if Plan A doesn’t work. That wasn’t the case last season. Not having a viable Plan B in part led to playing Nomar and Giambi way too much in the beginning.

by OaklandSi on Oct 31, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're probably right about guaranteed money to Duke.

My reasoning here was that I bet a bunch of teams (like the Red Sox) will be more than willing to offer Duke a low base salary and load up the contract with incentives. Since I think he’s one of the best fits for the A’s in the free agent starting pitching market – when he’s healthy- I was thinking that the A’s could offer more guaranteed money than those other teams and keep Duke in the fold that way, since they can afford to both overpay a bit and wait for Duke to get totally ready to pitch.

In any case, $4.5 million might be a little too much guaranteed. What about $3 million. Change your mind at all?

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Oct 30, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, not really.

I mean, $3M isn’t much considering the scope of MLB, but the guy didn’t play last year at all, only made 22 starts in 08, and even less than that in 07. He hasn’t been the picture of health, and he was paid $3.9M last year for… nothing.

Assuming Duke actually wants to come back to Oakland and not go chase the big money, I’d try to work out a 1 year “prove yourself” deal with him, and let him go to FA after 2010.

Something like $1M guaranteed with super easy escalators, like $500K for each milestone of 5, 10, 15, 20, 22, 25, 27, and 30 starts. If he’s healthy, he gets paid, plus he goes to FA with a solid season under his belt and can get a decent multiyear contract.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see him back...really

I don’t believe Duke will recover for the 2010 season. Not that I know any particulars, just a hunch.

"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw

by One won lost won on Oct 30, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure whoever signs him,

there will be a contract stipulation that handels the depression/not actually pitching we won’t pay you situation…

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It goes like this:

“If you’re too depressed to pitch then we won’t pay you, which is really depressing.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I think that would be less pressure on him

and would therefore possibly make him less depressed.

I share 1WLW’s hunch, by the way.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 31, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some good ideas

I like the signing of Duke and Tomko and Mazzaro in AAA. Cahill will have to prove himself in spring training or I think he goes to AAA too.

I don’t like the idea of getting Byrnes. I like the guy a lot, but I really doubt his ability to be consistant on offense unless its only as part of a straight platoon. If it is a platoon then I don’t see the need to spend money or Jeff Gray on him. We could platoon Hairston right now or Cunningham. personally I’d like to see Cunningham get a shot… We have nothing to lose besides baseball games :p I’d prefer Cust not play in the field, but he may have to if Chavez is around.

I am tempted by the idea of getting Hardy because we do need another SS whether its starting or to backup Cliff. But I think those 3 players for him is a high price considering he is also inconsistant and may hit a wall in the AL like so many NL hitters do. A worthwhile risk if the price is right… Wuertz, Hairston and Patterson is not the right price.

I like trading some of our outfield depth…. Patterson, Cunningham, Hairston, Davis and Sweeney all deserve significant playing time and we simply can’t provide it. Putting any of them in AAA is a waste at this point. We should get rid of Buck and 1 or 2 of these guys for the SS we need or prospects.

I don’t see the point in signing Kennedy AND Glaus. I barely see the point in signing even 1 of them. I’ve been thinking we need a utility guy that can play 3B and SS to cover ourselves. If we get a big name SS then one of these guys might also make sense, but I think there are cheaper ways to go which leaves room for Wallace or Cardenas before the end of the year.

In general, I don’t want to see much FA activity from the A’s. Carter, Wallace and Cardenas should be up by the end of the year and I don’t want anyone of significance blocking them.

I could definately see some trades along the lines of what you outline because we have some depth in the outfield and the bullpen that we absolutely have to move.

Hardy is the biggest piece in your proposal and seems worth a shot but given Beane’s comments on the SS position, I really doubt he makes a play for him.

I have a feeling we go the cheap route this year and save some money until we see which prospects pan out and then use the money we saves to fill the gaps in 2011 and make a run for it over the next few years.

by DrDoom on Oct 30, 2009 9:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hardy from NL to AL

is a disaster waiting to happen. Surely BB knows that by now, I never want to see another NL player coming to the A’s unless his name is Pujols.

by Laoren on Oct 30, 2009 10:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Lincecum?

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hanley Ramirez?

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Giambi was in the AL...

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I told him once or twice,

About Cliff Lee and David Price.
He’s in the NL now…

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor

by Leopold Bloom on Oct 30, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

another perfect "Holliday" experience

Just like Johnny Damon came to the A’s, or Holliday…these people who’ve been in the limelight in well-attended parks, seem to “fail” at Oakland A’s baseball.

Bring in another Ellis in a trade (as in, unknown) rather than a star, and groom them. That was a good idea with Patrol Craft, but the A’s didn’t let it play out.

Brett Wallace..that was the way to do it. Grew up an A’s fan.
Of course, so did Crozzzz….

"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw

by One won lost won on Oct 30, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since this is a long post with a bunch of only topically related separate points,

I’m going to experiment by breaking up my replies to make them easier to reply to individually. I don’t know if this is preferable. Maybe it’ll just clog the thread. Hence the “experiment.”

First: de los Santos is definitely Rule 5 eligible this offseason and will require a roster slot. This is simple enough to solve— just don’t sign Adam Kennedy, who really sucks. Give the spot to Gregorio Petit, who also really sucks but has defensive upside, can actually play shortstop, and costs no money, instead. There are a few other Rule 5 eligibles that I might want to protect— in particular, depending on Joel Galarraga’s current health status (a topic about which I know absolutely nothing) I think Anthony Recker might need protecting as the fourth catcher. This can easily be solved by throwing Dana Eveland or Jay Marshall into one of those trades.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 10:04 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I am also concerned about the need for a backup, if not in addition to a starting, shortstop

Patterson, Kennedy, Ellis, Chavez, Cardenas, Wallace all cannot play SS. Petit is probably not that good but he at least can play all 3 IF positions. Or we need to look outside the system.

by faninphilly on Oct 30, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean, if you want an awful veteran backup infielder for some reason

the least the A’s could do is sign one like Alex Cora who can actually play every position.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want one that will be completely awful.

No redeeming value whatsoever. And is kinda surly.

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor

by Leopold Bloom on Oct 30, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm available

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you have tremendous upside potential.

plus you’re not nearly surly enough.

Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -Nevermoor

by Leopold Bloom on Oct 30, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

2. If the D-Backs are about to release Eric Byrnes,

why would the A’s give up a useful, if extremely fungible, bullpen arm to get him? If he actually wants to come back to Oakland, he can just sign here after he gets released. If not, why sign him?

Actually, just speaking generally, why not just give whatever role he could fill to Aaron Cunningham instead? Cunningham basically has nothing left to do in AAA at this point. Either he will figure out big-league pitching or he won’t. Seems like time to find out.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 10:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I would rather give Cunningham the opportunity to play. The image of Byrnes not stepping on Home plate comes up.

The A’s signed too many older guys this offseason who did not perform. Let’s let the young guys do it.
Beane likes Pennington and all they need is a good backup for SS, 2B and 3B. Petit can do that . I like the energy these guys have shown.
Why would the A’s pay that much for Hardy? Wuertz is too valuable to lose and make the RP corp a lot better, behind Devine and Bailey.
Beane paid a lot for Hairston to just let him go that cheap. At one point near the trading deadline they were talking about how Hairston was the alternative if a team couldn’t get Holliday.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Oct 30, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Hairston is like Holliday,

that should be a good sales pitch for trading him: “Yeah, he sucks in Oakland, but he’ll be great for you!”

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 30, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"I can't hit, but I did stay at a Hairston Inn last night."

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

HAHA!!!

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love the Hardy idea

but I bet the Brewers want help with Kawakami’s salary more than they want Patterson.

by drink on Oct 30, 2009 10:16 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No Byrnes!

We have plenty of OF guys who might be as good as him and deserve a chance. There is probably some AAAA type guy who could outperform him next year without giving anybody up. You could probably wait for Arizona to DFA him and then get him for nothing.

RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!

by niallmack on Oct 30, 2009 10:18 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

:)

Ageed

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

3. Kawakami/Hardy

Maybe some have insinuated that the A’s should keep Kawakami, but I know I said so in so many words…

He put up an FIP of 4.21 last season. Coming to the AL, we can expect that to rise a little, but basically he projects as an average starting pitcher. It’s not clear to me how that’s worse than J.J. Hardy. As an added bonus, the A’s could keep Patterson around for depth purposes.

I’d prefer the A’s use Wuertz or Devine to acquire one of Tampa’s 8534 infielders, but if that falls through for some reason, Kawakami is a decent replacement. I don’t think Pennington will be a worse player than the team’s #5 starter.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 10:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Instead of trading, couldn't they just sign Iwamura as a FA?

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wouldn't that require Tampa Bay idiotically declining a $4.5M option on a 2.5 WAR player?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hrm. For some reason I thought he was going to FA as part of his contract when he came over from Japan.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe it is either/or

He has an option, but if the Rays decline the option, he becomes an FA even though he has fewer than 6 years of service time in MLB.

by el generico on Oct 30, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

4. Glaus/Kennedy

No objections to Glaus at that contract, though I doubt he’d agree to it.

Kennedy… I mean, I really do not get this. Everyone knows this year was an irrelevant fluke, yet they feel compelled to pay him off for it anyway. He already stole $12M from the Cardinals for basically zippo production, folks. The guy is not hard-up.

I mean, yeah, he liked playing in Oakland. I’m pretty sure the reason why he liked it is that he was PLAYING in Oakland. I suspect that as soon as he is relegated to bench duties, he’ll start whining and complaining like every other mediocre veteran in baseball. Just because he’s a slap-hitting infielder, old, and white doesn’t make him automatically a great guy.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 10:30 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Whatever idiocy drives the notion to re-sign Kennedy,

Billy Beane appears to share it. I’m not advocating re-signing him, but everything I’ve read indicates Kennedy has a job with Oakland if he wants one.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nico I am glad you join me in bipartisan support of the "PLEASE GOD DON'T RESIGN KENNEDY for American freedom Committee PAC"

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 30, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...Not exactly really quite what I said, but thanks...

I’m saying that in this comment, I’m not personally advocating signing him (and I’m not personally advocating not signing him) — rather I’m noting that Billy Beane seems to believe signing him is a good idea.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh well i withdraw my thanks then.

There is not one good reason that Adam Kennedy should be resigned. PERIOD.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 30, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So I guess Billy Beane's just not a very smart General Manager.

Bummer. :-(

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying that, but most of the non-draft-related moves he's made in the last year

have made little or no sense. Maybe he knows this group of young guys is sort of his last hurrah and he’s just impatient to get on with it?

Either way, Adam Kennedy still sucks at baseball.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I just take a different approach to Beane's moves

Sure, sometimes I just think they’re just mistakes, but given that he’s a darn good GM and intelligent person, when he makes a move that I don’t understand I tend not to go “What an idiotic thing to do!” but rather to stand back and try to understand what his thought process might be.

I’m not wild about the idea of re-signing Kennedy, partly because he can’t play SS. But I’m trying to think, “Why would Beane, knowing everything we do, be so keen on him?”

My guesses?

1. He’s interested in Kennedy strictly as a backup and knows that his backup INF is not that crucial a component on the roster — better your Ron Gant / Eric Karros/ David Justice / Jason Giambi be your backup INF than your starting __.

2. Kennedy’s value as a clubhouse leader is real — his “don’t hang your head, go root the team on” chat with Gio being an example that we know about, maybe one among 10 we don’t know about.

3. Kennedy likes it in Oakland and knows he’s not going to be that sought after overall, and has indicated he can be had for pretty cheap.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You forgot #4:

He’s mystified by something about Kennedy’s personality into acting based on something other than rational strategy.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're describing a quality of a poor GM

I don’t believe that you think Billy Beane is a poor GM.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overall, I don't...

That doesn’t mean a thing about this particular decision. Napoleon was a brilliant statesman, yet he thought invading Russia was a good idea…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 31, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It probably was

Losing probably wasn’t, though. Had he invaded Russia for the sole purpose of buying a really good borscht…?

I just wonder why Beane would be so irrationally sentimental over a player he only signed 3 months into last season, who butchered 3B and has a career track record of not being a terrific hitter.

Even Billy has admitted letting his emotions/sentiments cloud him a bit with Chavez. But Chavez was a really different talent, too, and had a much longer history with the team and the GM.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's an excellent metaphor, but

I would turn it around.

Given the information that went into Napoleon’s reasoning, invading Russia was a good idea. What made it a bad idea was a factor he neglected to consider.

As I assume you know, Napoleon’s military success was mostly based on rapid movement of forces, which he achieved by sending troops along multiple routes and concentrating them at key locations to engage the enemy. This was spectacularly successful in Italy, Germany, Austria, and basically everywhere Napoleon fought. However, it relied on two things to be present on the ground: sufficient road networks to enable multiple avenues of travel and sufficient agricultural density to allow the troops to get most of their sustenance from foraging rather than relying on supply trains.

These were both present in sufficient amounts everywhere in Europe where Napoleon had fought, so consideration of them as limiting factors was not part of his calculation. They were not sufficient in Russia, and that is why the invasion failed.

The lesson I draw from this metaphor is that when a well thought-out model leads to a decision which turns out foolish, it’s probably because there was an unknown factor which was left out of the model.

So if Beane wants to sign Adam Kennedy, but everything you and I know suggests that it’s stupid, it suggests to me that (1) there’s another factor that we know about that he isn’t considering, or (2) there’s another factor that he knows about that we aren’t considering.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 31, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Skipping over the tangential historical metaphor,

which would probably be interesting to us but bore the hell out of the rest of the thread, I basically agree with your final paragraph. I’m just not willing to defer strongly to Possibility #2.

In my experience, most moves that GMs make that look idiotic to knowledgeable commentators at the time turn out to be, in fact, idiotic. Not all of them— occasionally there really is some information advantage involved— but enough to where “defer to the GM because he knows better than you” is not an argument in which I put much credence at all.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 31, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

A factor that we aren't aware of

is not necessarily one we agree with.

Most fans take the point of view that the GM’s job is to get the most wins for the team, or possibly to make the most money for the organization. But it is not a given that those are the only legitimate goals of a GM.

I guess where you and I differ is that when I see a GM who seems to be motivated by something other than wins or profit, whether that something is known or unknown to us, I don’t see that as grounds to call him “idiotic”.

This is probably just a stylistic difference. As was discussed in another thread, you’re a lot freer with pejorative adjectives than I am. “Terrible” = third worst among the 30 major-league players with enough appearances to qualify. “Idiotic” = doesn’t meet my standards of success.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 1, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if the GM is CONSCIOUSLY motivated by something other than wins or profit,

like paying off guys he likes or trying to keep his job at the expense of the team’s best interests, I wouldn’t describe that as “idiotic,” though I’d be happy to throw some other excessively strong pejorative adjectives around (like “corrupt,” “self-serving,” or the like).

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 1, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We need a back up infielder who can play SS. End of story.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 31, 2009 3:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So if the A"s trade for Hardy

then that would be Pennington or Petit……but probably Pennington at this point.

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Oct 31, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pennington would be a wonderful utility INF

A good defensive SS, excellent backup at 2B, able to handle 3B in a pinch, and a great pinch runner to have available.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and maybe if we get completely lucky

he’ll turn into Jason Bartlett rather than Nick Punto.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 31, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've compared him to uber-utilityman Willie Bloomquist on multiple occasions

I think it’s a fairly good one, although Pennington might have a bit more power.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 31, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hm

The first thing I would have thought for contrasts between Moneypenny and Willie Baseball is OBP skils. Willie’s got a career OBP of .318 while Cliff OBP’d .342 with the big club and has a majors/minors career OBP of .341 (with a .426 OBP in AAA in ’08).

by cityplANner on Nov 1, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

5. Duke/Tomko

No objections to re-signing Duke, unless someone comes up with a better pitching free agent somehow.

Tomko— you’d be throwing your money down a well. I mean, at 500K it’s not going to change anything, but why bother? There’s no shortage of fringy arms in the A’s system right now, and Tomko would just be another one except lacking upside.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 10:36 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You're not bothered at all that Duke didn't throw a single pitch last year?

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing

I almost agree with everything PT posted. I don’t see the harm in signing Tomko but I don’t think he is that good either. I also don’t know why we would bother with Glaus for 1 year, but neither move has long term implications so its not a big deal.

by DrDoom on Oct 30, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glaus

Because SOMEBODY has to play third, and if it’s not gonna be Brett Wallace (and it probably shouldn’t) then why not somebody who might be good?

Hell, as a bonus, he might end up netting draft picks.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah glaus cant play third his shoulder is shreadded.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 30, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then don't sign him.

Go after Beltre.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im more than fine with that and have advocated it repeatedly going back to last year.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 30, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

or convert Barton to third base and sign Nick Johnson and Mark DeRosa

That way you can move Barton back to 1B and DeRosa to 3B once Johnson gets hurt!

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

De Rosa seems like he'd be overpriced. Right now he'd be the

Cardinals’ best option at 3B

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 30, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

DeRosa is also hurt. I would also support moving Barton to third.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 30, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is ther any options on the FA market that provides

the A’s with the flexibilty of either playing SS or 3B?

I think it is Tejada if Beane fills they are in a position to spend during the recession…

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just not sold on Pennington even though beane seemed pretty

comfortable with him there!

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wouldn't that be ironic...

signing Miggy if Beane isn’t comfortable with the heir apparent to the heir to Miggy…

by OaklandSi on Oct 31, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you'll forgive my pedantry,

Pennington is not the heir apparent to Crosby; he is the heir presumptive.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 31, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps

Although Beane did make Pennington sound like the heir apparent in the postseason interview …

by OaklandSi on Oct 31, 2009 10:35 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

My take on that is a team

always talks up the heir apparent until he’s no longer apparent.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 1, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You guys are totally spoiling the impact of Iglew's pedantry

…such as it is.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 1, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did I say that?

I’m “bothered” by it, just not enough so to where I wouldn’t be willing to re-sign him at under $5M a season.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You said you had no objections

and (to me at least) the fact that a starting pitcher has made less than 30 starts over the last three seasons is a pretty strong objection to signing him to a contract worth more than what he was paid last year. There’s just nothing that points at him being a dependable pitcher in 2010.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

As much as I like the guy on a personal level, and appreciate what he’s done on a performance level, there’s only so much “when he’s healthy” I can take. Perhaps I’ve become totally biased due to the past three years of “fantastic teams we would have had if everyone had been healthy” that fell apart, but I’m ready to invest money in someone with a better health track record, if money is to be invested. Pass on Tomko, Duke on some sort of non-guaranteed contract, etc.

by el generico on Oct 30, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care

I’m willing to gamble on getting an ace pitcher for that kind of money. I don’t particularly care how many days he spends on the DL, whether he is “dependable,” or any of the rest of it. That stuff is simply irrelevant. Over the long run he will produce WAR at a superior rate to what he’s being paid for.

The alternative viewpoint requires some kind of (completely unsupportable) belief that having players on the DL somehow negatively influences the performance of players who are NOT on the DL.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who gives a shit about the long run if he's only signed for 1 year?

Sure, he was a 3WAR pitcher in 2008, but he was a zero WAR pitcher in 2009, and still got paid $3.9M

I guess I don’t see the downside in a low base salary, high incentive deal.

$1.5M base salary. 1M incentives for 100, 150, 175, 200, and 225 IP

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not talking about Duchscherer's long run, I'm talking about the GM's long run

Do this sort of signing every year (assuming there’s a viable candidate, obviously) and you will most likely come out ahead over a 10-year span.

You just proved my point. In 2008-2009, he provided 3 WAR for $5.1M. That’s a fucking pittance. He was in arbitration, but even if you amplify the salary to free agent rates ($2M in 2008 and $5M in 2009) it’s still a comical bargain compared to the roughly $13.5M in value he provided.

As for the “downside” to your proposed deal, I think the fact that he won’t actually sign the contract counts as a “downside”…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't know GMs could spend time on the disabled list.

Because this:

I’m willing to gamble on getting an ace pitcher for that kind of money. I don’t particularly care how many days he spends on the DL, whether he is "dependable," or any of the rest of it. That stuff is simply irrelevant. Over the long run he will produce WAR at a superior rate to what he’s being paid for.

sure sounds like you’re talking about Duchscherer’s long run and not the GM’s long run, and when you’re talking about signing a guy to a 1 year deal, it damn well relevant how many days he spends on the DL and whether or not he’s dependable.

You’re spinning the numbers to make your argument look better. Sure, Duke provided 3 WAR in 08 and 09, but he wasn’t on a 2 year contract. He was on a pair of 1 year contracts to avoid arbitration, so of course he’s going to be underpaid, but combining the years makes him look even more underpaid and it also ignores the fact that he was paid $4M in 2009 for absolutely nothing.

Maybe I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about, but guys usually don’t have a lot of bargaining power when their recent resume looks something like this:

Last year: Did Not Play (Physical Injury, Clinical Illness prevented play)
2 years ago: 141 very good innings (Physical Injury prevented full season)
3 years ago: 16 innings pitches (Physical injury prevented full season)

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

PT's saying that if you keep signing guys like Duke

(guys with his level of health risk and WAR), you’ll come out ahead over time, despite the aggravating lean years.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is fine, but we're not talking about the aggregate of signing a bunch of guys like Duke

We’re specifically talking about Duke next season.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 30, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just commented below on where I stand with that

But I think PT’s point is that if you’d sign exactly a “Duke for 2010” risk every year for 10 years because on average you’d come out ahead, then you should do it specifically with Duke for 2010 even though it could work out great or could be a disaster.

Just like if someone offers you 10:1 odds on rolling a 7 with two dice, and says you can bet and roll as many times as you like, you should roll as many times as possible — even though there’s an 83.3% chance you’ll be out money after the first roll and will be looking dumb at that point.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is exactly the analogy, yes

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where is Eveland at in the A's depth chart?

Purgatory….

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep going south...

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

HAHA!!!!

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

South of Purgatory

would be a good name for a band.

And your dream, absolve.
And your path, dissolve.

by danmerqury on Oct 31, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It also describes the proposed stadium in Fremont.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 31, 2009 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My two cents

I love the idea of Glaus. Guy is a power bat who can play third base, but the only way he comes to Oakland (as a potential back-up to Chavez at third, Barton at first, and Cust as DH) is if nobody offers him much money, and nobody pencils him in as a starting third baseman.

Barring that, I don’t mind the idea of Kennedy and Petit as the two infield back-ups. Kennedy can hit, though not for power, which means he can DH or play 1B or 2B or 3B (at least til Wallace is ready) depending on any given day’s needs. I think last year’s rules apply this year: he had a fluke year and won’t get a deal much better than last spring because he’s a year older. I think he can be had for cheap. If Pennington fails, then at that point the A’s could consider a trade to bring in a new starting shortstop, but I wouldn’t do anything right now.

I like the idea of bringing back Duke and Tomko. I’m not sure if Mazzarro is ready yet, and Cahill has sufficently proved himself in the team’s eyes that he’s almost certain to start the season in the bigs. If he fails, then Tomko is there. Duke, of course, gets a major league contract.

I’d like to see the A’s find a home for Wuertz before the season begins. He was overworked in 2009 and that raises a huge injury red flag for a reliever.

If Carson remains on the 40-man over the winter, I wouldn’t mind seeing him, Patterson and Cunningham fight it out in spring training for the last oufield spot. Let the chips fall, and then either release or trade the losers.

by richwol1 on Oct 30, 2009 1:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If we signed Glaus, I’m sure it would be to start at 3rd. Chavez is a non-entity.

Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!

by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 30, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can this be rec'd enough?

Lets find out.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 30, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As I said...

“…in the team’s eyes”. Cahill at this point, whether anyone agrees or not, is pretty much a lock to start the season in the majors, assuming he doesn’t fall apart in spring training. Whether he deserves to or not is irrelevant.

I think it’s arguable, even if he pitched worse than Mazzaro, whether sending him back to AAA is a good idea either in terms of his own confidence or his own learning curve.

by richwol1 on Oct 30, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

After Gallagher last year I wouldn't assume anyone's a lock to start in the majors

I can see Cahill going to AAA and working on his breaking pitch…or staying in the majors.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 30, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gallagher sucked in the spring

As I said…assuming (Cahill) doesn’t fall apart in spring training.

by richwol1 on Oct 30, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

Your opinion is that the team thinks Cahill deserves to start next year. My opinion (and, I assume, PT’s) is that the team understands how bad he was last year.

The form/pitch development/etc that Cahill needs has been discussed at length elsewhere. He certainly has plenty to learn in AAA.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 30, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

But if this is the case, it flies in the face of everything the team has said to date.

by richwol1 on Oct 30, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the team believes that

“how effectively Cahill pitched in the big leagues in 2009” and “how effectively Cahill can pitch in the big leagues in 2010” are two different things.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

(Which is to say I concur with richwol1)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course they haven't said anything

And maybe he works his issues out. I’d love to see it.

I just don’t see a pitcher who is ready for MLB yet (at a more fundamental level than just “pitched like crap last year”)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 30, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think where Cahill starts 2010

comes down to what he shows in spring training. And that’s how it should be.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 31, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

But making him actually pitch well to earn a spot would be, like, insulting or something!

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 31, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Assuming Iglew means

“Has his curve back, consisent mechanics, and some idea where his pitches are going” then I agree.

If he means “has a low ERA” I disagree completely.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 31, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We agree.

I did indeed mean the former. Spring training ERA means very little.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 1, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm actually rather concerned that the team is operating in cloud-cuckoo-land when it comes to Cahill

It’s always difficult to tell when someone is just being tactful, but the interview Beane gave Blez at the end of the season did not show any appreciation at all of just how bad Cahill pitched last season.

My protestations are probably irrelevant and hopeless, but at least I’ll be able to say “I told you so” when his ERA is over 5 halfway through next season.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My protestations are probably irrelevant and hopeless, but at least I’ll be able to say "I told you so" when his ERA is over 5 halfway through next season."

Be careful there, PT. You’re setting yourself up for a potentially deadly showdown next year….why not just hold off on statements like that for now. You don’t know what’s going to happen with Cahill next year, and neither do any of the rest of us, so just chill on your Swami stance, please….

On a separate note………Taj, this was a great post and I really enjoyed some of your ideas, here.

Hardy has been on my wish list for awhile and if it doesn’t take more than Wuertz & Hairston to do that deal, I’m good. I love Wuertz and he was a baller last season so that would suck to see him go, but Hairston did not really impress me at all. Eric Patterson still has yet to show me anything that makes me go, "Wow!‘, so I guess if he’s a throw in, so be it.

Byrnes, I say nah! I’d rather give Cunningham and Buck a chance to battle it out or platoon there.

Duke- Sign him to a 1 year deal with lots of incentives…perfect.

Tomko- Sign him to a minor league deal, with bonus incentives if he makes the big club.

Carter, Wallace, & Mazzaro- AAA to start the year unless one of them is tearing it up in ST.

Glaus- Sure, why not? 1 year insurance policy and he can still mash.

Kennedy…- I love the guy, but it could come down to what happens in other spots of the roster. 1 year deal sounds good here as well if he doesn’t want too much $.

Chavvy- Man, I can remember when he was making all 3rd basemen envious of his overall game…sigh.

Great post and go A’s!

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Oct 30, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deadly showdown? Swami stance?

Buck?

Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.

by Elvez on Oct 31, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you on EVERYTHING except on Cahill

and Glaus…

Go A’s!

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe that the A's want to let their young starters grow in the majors

So the starters at the beginning of the season will probably be;
Anderson
Braden
Cahill
Mazzaro
Gio or maybe Duke if they re sign him or even Tomko..

Anderson showed that he belong up with the club
Cahill has shown in 2009 at times that he has the stuff to be here… and Beane will give him a chance to stay
Mazzaro will stay if he has a good spring…

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Oct 31, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for taking the time to do this

Your arguments are mostly well reasoned even when I don’t agree with some of them.

The biggest thing that I disagree with is counting on Chavez for anything, and especially penciling him in batting third. I think your heart went way past your head there, which I understand as I have always liked Chavez.

I also think signing a veteran starter would be helpful, and once again I don’t think Duke should be counted on to fill that role.

I would love to see other posters’ attempts to offer alternate scenarios. I am too mired in work to do more than sneak a peek at AN.

by OaklandSi on Oct 30, 2009 2:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting post Taj Adib

and I appreciate the work you put into it. I guess I’m a little higher on Cliff Pennington then some here on AN and I’d like to see him get the chance to be the starting shortstop next season.

I like the idea of Troy Glaus if he’s healthy as obviously it’s crazy to rely on Chavez coming back.

On Justin Duchscherer I think it may be too soon to tell. The issues he’s facing make it difficult to invest a lot of money in him. I know I’m rooting for Duke and I hope he does whatever is best for him.

As far as Eric Byrnes coming back I know a lot of fans would love to see it as he was always a fan favorite and with the way the A’s are drawing right now that has to be taken into consideration.

I know Byrnes has struggled as of late and I don’t know if he has anything left but if you can get him cheap and he helps sell a few tickets I might take a chance on him but I’d be surprised if he has a good season.

by sirbed on Oct 30, 2009 2:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes sir....

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the overall approach but I'm sold on any of the returnees -- Chavez, Duke or Byrnes

…or Glaus or Kennedy. Glaus couldn’t play 3B in St Louis so I wouldn’t count on him as anything but a DH. If you want to sign him as a DH, that’s fine.

I’d go with Beltre and take a flier on Duke but the others don’t seem worthwhile. Cunningham and/or Buck can do anything Byrnes can do. Of course they’re stuck with Chavez.

I like the idea of Hardy though, with Pennington as backup.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 30, 2009 4:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A tip o' the cap for the labor

But I disagree with all your ideas except the dalliance with Glaus.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 30, 2009 4:55 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Carson & Reineke were outrighte today...

Official release

OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland A’s outrighted outfielder Matt Carson and right-handed pitcher Chad Reineke to Triple-A Sacramento, the club announced today. Prior to his outright, Carson was signed to a 2010 major league contract and will be a non-roster invitee with Oakland this spring.

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Oct 30, 2009 6:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i think that should say that Carson signed a minor league contract, not major

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Oct 30, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I think what's going on there

is that he would otherwise have been a minor league free agent. Instead the A’s signed him for 2010, then outrighted him, so he stays in the system (presumably at a decent pay rate however).

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 30, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, that's how I read it too.

Carson’s first year in the minors was 2002, so if they had released him without first signing him to a major-league contract, he’d have become a minor-league free agent. That’s exactly what the article is specifying.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 31, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oops, I can't add.

Actually he became a minor-league free agent after 2008. That’s how we got him. Signing him to a contract prevents him from becoming one again.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 31, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont agree with any of it, but like the general direction

Eric Byrnes has absolutely no value as a player, his hamstrings are done, and he’s just miserable at baseball anyway. Buck+Cunningham deserve that spot, not some over the hill/was never really good anyway retread.

Hairston, Weurtz & Patterson for Hardy? Thats awfully excessive, I think just the latter 2 with Gray might actually get that done. Hairson > Byrnes, no matter what. Scott was playing hurt here and because Holliday kind of underperformed here, everyone thinks Hairston is going to do the same.

Glaus is the only player Id take a flyer on, I dont think you are making the team better at all by blocking who we have.

by PL78 on Oct 30, 2009 7:30 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

My two cents...

I don’t have any interest in Byrnes, personally (if you want a guy who hits LHP and plays “interesting” LF defense," just keep Hairston), but I love Glaus as a “DH who can slide in short-term at 3B for Chavez if when he breaks.”

I would really like the A’s to try to acquire Hardy. Who cares that his raw numbers will be worse for playing at the Coliseum — everybody’s will be. As for what the trade would look like, I don’t tend to speak to specific proposals because even if it looks fair, who knows if that’s what the other team wants to do?

I’m in the camp that would take a chance on Duke for the right price. A lot of folks are acting like clinical depression is similar to a broken ankle. Duke didn’t suddenly “clinical depression” his ankle. He’s had this condition/proclivity for a long time, was able to pitch great through it for most of his life and couldn’t, for whatever reason (likely related to not being able to pitch or be physically active) in 2009. He’s perfectly likely to be able to pitch in 2010 if his back/hip cooperate and he has “ace quality” potential when he’s on.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 7:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that's a different kettle of wallabee

One has to assess the likelihood of Duke’s back/hip letting him make 3, or, 10, or 20, or 30 starts and go from there. One could argue, I suppose, that having a full year away from pitching, while not so good for the spirit and mood, might be useful for the back and hip.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

very good point about the physical injuries

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 30, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My plan for this offseason looks like this:

-Sign Aki Iwamura to play 3B.

That’s it. We are stacked everywhere else and have a glut of just about ready guys on the horizon.

BEST CASE SCENARIO: Chavez plays 50-60 games at 3B, playing 2-3 times a week before breaking down, Iwamura plays the rest of the time there and spells Ellis when he needs a day off. Then by midseason, Wallace is absolutely mashing AAA and playing passable defense at 3B, he gets brought up and sets the league on fire and everyone lives happily ever after.

WHAT WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN: Chavez plays about a month before breaking down and Iwamura takes most of the time there. Then depending on how he plays, Wallace gets brought up either in June after he’s forced the issue by being spectacular at AAA or in Sept if he has hacked at defense and Aki has ruled too hard to take him away from 3B.

WORST CASE SCENARIO: Chavez and Aki both get hurt and Wallace is horribly horrible at AAA. At this point we dig the scrapheap, which is funnily enough, a strong suit of Beane, so even the worst case scenario isnt that bad.

What we shouldnt do, is be stoked about an outlier year from AK and act like he wasnt almost out of baseball when we picked him last year. His oncoming dropoff is inevitable and he isnt really that good a player to begin with. We got lucky in 09, lets not play with fire here with Kennedy.

by PL78 on Oct 30, 2009 7:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

annnnnnd

I had no idea that TB still had an option on him, IGNORE THIS POST.

by PL78 on Oct 30, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In your worst case scenario, you forgot

that before dying of Montezuma’s Revenge, Chris Carter shares a meal, and several key germs and fluids, with his AAA buddies Wallace and Cardenas.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's been reiterated 1000 times, but...

please NO Tomko! The guy sucks, and we could do just as well finding a young replacement level player who probably has more upside by virtue of simply being young.

I love the idea of signing Glaus though. It kind of reminds me of the Frank Thomas signing.

And if we can get Byrnes for almost free, then by all means, let’s do it. But, if he actually has to cost something, no thank you.

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Oct 30, 2009 8:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Brett Tomko has worked hard

to create a 15-year track record of consistent suckitude. Let’s not cheapen it by focusing on a handful of surprisingly pleasant starts in September, 2009.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 30, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But, but, but.................he beat he Yankees!!!!!!!!!

8>D

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Oct 30, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about an non-roster invite to spring training?

:-)

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heck, even I get THAT.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why sign Glaus... he can't play a good 3B anymore and we don't need more DHs

There is no reason to sign Byrnes as there are better OL options already here.

Tomko pitched pretty good for the As this year.. but I would rather let the youngsters play

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Oct 31, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want Blevins on 25 man roster...

I want Mazzaro for 6 man rotation or long relief???

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 9:29 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Tejada solves all our SS/3B problems

Hits for high avg. and assuming he gets back on the juice the old man can jack some HR’s to help out as well…

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 10:29 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

not a great assumption

I doubt Miggy would want to risk a 50 game suspension.

by OaklandSi on Oct 31, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is that whole "walks at Shawon Dunston-approved rates" problem to deal with

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 31, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In fairness,

Shawon Dunston-approved rates do include some excellent financing options.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I'd rather invest in the Post Office

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 31, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we dealt/put up with Jay payton, then can we not

finance a second tour for Tejada???

Pretty please???? Just image the Miggy bobble head/ A’s root beer float served by Miggy attendance during those two days!!!

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The bobble head-root beer float statement was a joke, in case you were wondering...

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The A's already have a whole team full of Jay Paytons

Most of the lineup right now is actually powerless hackers— not sure if you’ve noticed, but the team was something like 21st in walk rate this season.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 31, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

at least

Miggy would be hacker with some power

by colin on Oct 31, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miggy Broderick

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 31, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

what is one more then?

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may also have noticed that said team full of powerless hackers

did not score very many runs last season.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 31, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hairston

Is it just me or does it seem too soon to give up on him?

I think he is going to be a nice addition and do not want to move him unless the haul is really nice! The recession is my number 1 concern and I think Beane will stay pat with only marginal signings if any…

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 10:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree. Hairston just doesn't hit RHP well enough

to be a good everyday option, IMO, but we saw the worst of him, playing through injury. He’s better than we saw and has some legitimate power. He also is injury prone and doesn’t hit 3/4 of the league all that well.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I think Beane will give him a chance to get healthy

and see how he does…unless a better option comes along…

by OaklandSi on Oct 31, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A's OFers

My Rankings;

1. Davis
2. Hairston
3. Sweeney
4. Buck
5. Cunningham

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 10:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Cust is left off the rankings for a reason!

DH/Bench PH is where I want him.

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think at this point you have to put Sweeney ahead of Davis

1. Sweeney
2. Davis
3. Hairston
4. Cunningham
5. Buck

Which is to say that our OF sucks.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you see the A's having 5 OFers?

Or is Buck the odd man out?

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally, I think Buck will be traded this off-season

But theoretically, if Buck is in the mix Buck/Hairston make a decent platoon (other than the fact that they both spend a lot of time on the DL and neither is that good).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the way that two Bobby Crosbys make a .400 hitter, yes.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buck for Hardy!

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 31, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They really don't need Buck

they have corner OFers a plenty in Braun Hart Gamel

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 31, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't one of them moving to 1B when they decide they can't pay for Prince Fielder anymore?

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 31, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah Gamel will if they trade Fielder. But they still have two cOFers and its not like finding backups is hard.

"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Nov 1, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

his value is at an all time low

i think cunningham and buck will be ver similar players down the line and i think cunningham has more value than buck at this point. so i would rather trade cunningham

"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow

by 9Custs on Nov 1, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Melvin Mora

His option was declined and does AN think he would make a good fit on the team?

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 10:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

2-3 years ago, yes. Now, I'd say no.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ancient, can't hit, can't defend?

Sounds like an even worse version of Adam Kennedy. Sign me up!

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 31, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What? When Tony Batista is available?

Why waste time on Mora?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 31, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

‘Cuz I don’t want any Mora that!

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 1, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Kennedy as my backup IF than;

insert on line ______________

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 11:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Crosby

Garciaparra,

Petit,

the ghost of Esteban German…

The foundational Western philosophical quote; "I think, therefore I am..." applies to everyone except Booby "the joke" Crozby

by MMunoz33 on Oct 31, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding Kennedy

The main reason the A’s want him back is that he’s cheap, he’s short-term, and he’s not expected to play regularly in an ideal world. Of course, every single year since the dawn of time, whomever has been asked to fill this Scutaro role has ended up playing an inordinate amount of baseball.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 31, 2009 2:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He's not cheap enough and he's not utility enough

He, definitionally, can’t fill the “Scutaro” role because he can’t play SS.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 31, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Screw it,

Daric Barton for Uber Utility Man.

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 1, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not advocating for it

Just offering a suggestion as to why the A’s appear to be advocating for it.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Nov 2, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Making a case for cliff pennington

Lets say he managed to play solid defense, steal 20-30+ steals a season and have the offensive performances below, would you take this for a couple seasons till grant green was ready? Now which season doesnt belong? I think they canget by with pennington if this team has better players surrounding him and getting decent, not great production out of the #9 spot.

.309/.367/.760 OPS
.265/.331/.700 OPS
.286/.329/.690 OPS
.320/.389/.879 OPS

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/jason-bartlett.shtml

by Asfan4ever723 on Oct 31, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think that any plan that has the Athletics seriously contending in '10...

…has to include a way for Chavez to restructure his current contract, deferring money payments over the course of at least four future years with additional money considerations being the incentive for Chavez to agree (and for the meddlesome players union to accept it). A $15 million dollar albatross for Oakland’s market is not the stuff condusive for any type of wishful “Pitching, Defense, Power & Depth” plans.

That’s why ’11 is probably the best time to address the wishful planning that this post attempts.

by LowcountryJoe on Nov 1, 2009 7:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not really

The A’s already have enough short-term money to sign any contract that they can afford in the long term, if you follow me. The only thing deferring money from Chavez would be good for is signing additional one-year stopgaps, which is the last thing on earth the A’s need at this point.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Nov 1, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At least we won't be making an offer for Jason Bay...unlike Sabean.

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 1, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and by 'we', I meant the A's. Oops.

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 1, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And by "oops," you meant "we"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 1, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

since when did i become French?

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 1, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It may be that "restructuring his contract" is

exactly why Eric Chavez is slotted to play. It’s quite likely that the team has some sort of contract completion insurance policy on Chavez which will help pay his contract if he becomes unable to play. But, as we learned in the Jeff Bagwell incident, the insurance company isn’t going to pay up just because the team thinks a guy is washed up. It may well be that both Beane and Chavez think that Chavez is done, but the language of the policy is going to have some standard of what constitutes career-ending injury. We don’t know what the policy says, but it’s probably not so much “we don’t want to play Chavvy any more because we’re afraid he’ll break” as “oops, he broke again”.

Another possibility is that the policy is already paying, but the terms require keeping him on the active roster. That’s what happened with Albert Belle. I don’t remember if the Orioles actually announced that or if word just leaked out, but I see no reason why the A’s would put this information in a press release even if it were true.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Nov 1, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If chavez can play without injury he is not "done."

Chavez cannot play because of injury. I don’t think its a skills issue, its an injury issue.

by Future Ed on Nov 1, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

to be fair

we really don’t know about his skills at this point, do we? I mean, he hasn’t been healthy for over three seasons…

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Nov 1, 2009 5:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is one of the best offseason plans I've seen

I do have a couple minor quibbles: just say no to AK and Tomko. I’d also investigate the price in talent and money on Chapman, Sheets, Bedard, Beltre, Alex Gordon, Vlad and others. I don’t really see a need for Byrnes. If we give up Hairston (a rich man’s Byrnesie), give the spot to Cunningham or Buck. I’d also like to explore the market for Raj Davis. I doubt the A’s could get too much but a high upside A- arm would be nice. The A’s should also look for minor league deals on Giles and Winn.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Nov 1, 2009 8:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs


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