Eric Wedge?
by batterbatter on Oct 3, 2009 2:11 AM PDT
Email
PrintThe success in the month of September has muted discussions of Geren being replaced but the recent slide should bring up a constructive analysis that should prove that Geren is not a very good manager. 2010 is year 3 of our rebuilding plan (rebuilding earnestly started after 2006 when Haren got traded). Not many will expect us to contend but I would want, at the very least, a respectable showing in 2010 so as to contend for a playoff spot in 2011. I'm thinking 85 wins in 2010.
Talent-wise, we have tons of question marks heading into next season. But I also believe a good manager can inspire a team to over-achieve. That is what I want to see. I don't believe Geren can do that. There are tons of good managers out there (at least a notch above Geren) who should get a chance to manage the A's. The recently fired Wedge was AL manager of the year 2 years ago but due to bad fortunes in Cleveland, was fired. Or how bout Buck Showalter? These ex-managers are just dying to prove themselves again.
Geren already had his shots -- 3 years in a row of being 10 games below .500. Geren is almost comatose managing this team. I could swear that since people all thought the A's were gonna suck, Geren figured there's no point in trying too hard. No one is gonna blame him to guiding this team to where they are suppose to be, anyway.
But today, I say NO MORE! The buck stops here.
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Haren was traded after 2007
"The A's get some action but they do not score..." -Glen Kuiper
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
The worst thing I've ever seen on AN.....................
Or how bout Buck Showalter?
Please. Be. Serious.
I won’t be responsible for my actions if Oakland hires Showalter.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
by Daniel777 on Oct 3, 2009 5:49 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
How am I the first one to add the proverbial ...
+ 1,000?
http://www.myspace.com/ryanmac10
by RyanFromBonas on Oct 3, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know if thats enough.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
Maybe Wedge
Wedge is an intriguing choice. Is he LaRussa after he was fired by the White Sox? I don’t know, but I do know that I’m not impressed by Geren’s motivational strategies. The A’s have a good September and then they lay an egg in Seattle this week and don’t wake up last night until Friday. However, the Indians didn’t do much this year, either.
Wedge is a maybe.
I'm meh on Wedge, but maybe
Why in the world would we want Showalter?
Last of the Ninth - Photography
enlighten me on showalter. what’s his story and why do i need to hate the idea of him?
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Oct 3, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
he's a fascist.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 3, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not see if you can lure Tony LaRussa back after this year?
He’s in the last year of his contract and he still has a home in the bay area. If I’m Beane, I have to at least “entertain the thought” before I toss the idea out the window.
Talk about a manger who would instantly command respect in the clubhouse and is a proven winner!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Only problem might be LaRussa really likes veterans
and isn’t all that keen on nurturing young players, so I’m sure how perfect a fit he’d be with this current team.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
not so sure, you mean?
Interesting, though, that earlier this season LaRussa was on the Radnich show and was asked if he would ever consider coming back to Oakland in a professional capacity.
His answer was, “Yes, of course. I love it here and would be open to a discussion after my contract with the Cardinals is up”….because he didn’t want to get into trouble with the league or the Cards organization….
So, don’t put it out of the realm of possibility my friend.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Yeah, I meant "I'm not sure..."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
FIRE SHOWALTER NOW!!
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Oct 3, 2009 9:29 AM PDT reply actions
Wedge Got Hosed
but I really don’t see him managing in Oakland anytime in the foreseeable future.
Nor will Beane hire a manager who actually can think independently of the organization and actually (ahem) produce some fucking results.
Pardon my English. :)
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Results?
Like a .496 winning percentage and 1 play-off appearance in 7 years with a team that consistenly had quite a bit more talent than what the A’s have had the last couple years? I have nothing against Eric Wedge but I really have no reason to think he could do anything with these players that Geren couldn’t do.
That statement
has no bearing on whether or not Wedge is managing the A’s.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Wedge?
Sure, why not?
"If Vin Mazzaro comes anywhere near me with shaving cream he’s gonna be coming away with a bloody stump" – Dallas Braden
I prefer Vicks over Wedge, myself.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 5, 2009 4:05 AM PDT up reply actions
5-game losing streak and now Geren sucks again
I’m having difficulty keeping up with how rapidly he’s become competent, then incompetent, then competent, then incompetent again. Does he suffer from bipolar disorder? Or maybe it’s the commenters here that do.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Oct 3, 2009 11:38 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
who said he didn’t suck? at best, nico once in a while gives him credit for being right twice a day. yes he’s shown improvement by a benching or two and making better calls a couple times (mostly because he’s been reading AN and realized what he was doing wrong) but he still sucks, losing streak or no.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Oct 3, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly. I never actually hear any of his "defenders"
articulate what he does well. I hear a lot about how managers don’t matter but never about how, to the extent that they do matter, Geren does x really well.
Personally, I do think he has managed better in the second half, holding players more accountable and handling pitch/inning counts the way he should. That doesn’t mean I think the A’s couldn’t do better, but I do think he’s done a slightly better job and I’m glad for that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
On the flip side,
I never hear what he does poorly, or how anyone can know what he does outside of the lines.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Yes you do
In the first half, you heard (from me and others) about how he let players get away with not hustling. You’ve heard countless examples of flat-out amateur tactician moves, such as bringing the infield in 2nd inning at New York (Eveland), walking Chris Davis intentionally in the double-header at Texas (E. Gonzalez), walking Branyan to face Jose Lopez with the bases loaded (Springer), and so on. You’ve heard about handling of bullpen (a criticism I don’t generally agree with, but it’s been articulated by others who feel it’s a weakness).
Geren’s detractors haven’t been vague about what they think he does wrong; his supporters, in contrast, don’t seem to know what it is he does well, just that it doesn’t really matter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Fair enough,
he did have some bad tactical moves, but I haven’t seen it as much lately.
And the rest of my argument is below.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
I still believe in Geren
I guess I haven’t been as vocal about it, but I feel he has been great at managing the young starters and protecting them in a very tough situation. I have also been impressed with the way he uses his bullpen. He has been willing to adjust roles based on performance and has not been afraid to give youngsters responsibility when they have shown they deserve it. I think he has been able to get his best relievers in the most important situations more often than not. (ie. very few high leverage innings for Casilla) There have been some heavy workloads for some relievers but I don’t think any were overly heavy, especially considering how few innings he could use his young starters.
He doesn’t communicate with the media well (which annoys me), but from everything I have heard about him he is good about communicating with his players and I haven’t heard any rumblings about him “losing the locker room.” As far as the tactical moves you mentioned, yes some have been bad but my feeling is that if you watch any manager your going to run out of fingers trying to count questionable individual tactical decisions. All managers play hunches, try to show faith in certain players, or know that some player is unavailable that the fans don’t know about, which can all have an effect. This doesn’t excuse a poor decision, but I don’t think it’s reason to fire a manager because the next one is probably going to make questionable decisions as well.
All in all I think Geren can get the job done if given the right tools to work with. The biggest trend I’ve noticed with him this year is that if he has some players who can OBP over .350 the A’s can score some runs and win some games. When the team OBP is hovering around .300 the team looks lethargic and struggles to score.
I agree about the bullpen
I also agree that every fan can name several “bonehead” tactical moves as if it was unique to his/her manager, but in Geren’s case some of the moves smack of “there was a right move and a wrong move here, and guess which one you just made?”
My personal assessment is that he’s a AAAA-manager, great to have at AAA and a bit in over his head in the bigs.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Since I'm kinda a defender, I guess I'll tell what I see.
Suzuki, Barton, Ellis, Pennington, Kennedy, Ryan Sweeney, and RAJAI DAVIS are all performing at extremely high levels. You can even say the same as of late for Patterson. Like you said, he’s doing a good job with pitch counts/inning counts.
So, I see 8 out of nine starters playing awesome baseball, maybe even overachieving. Why would we change a thing?
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
As one who never blamed poor player performances
on Geren, the only “positive” I’ll give Geren on those guys is simply letting them continue to play, which is a bit of a no-brainer if they’re contributing. Back when some of these guys were sucking bad (see Nomar, Giambi & Crosby) somehow they were miraculously still in the lineup everyday and/or too frequently. While I’ll grant you in some cases there was a lack of better options, this continued even when better options rotted on the bench.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
What exactly are you looking for in a manager then?
Er, why do you think he should be fired?
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Mainly his in-game decisions
Nico noted several above. There are very few times that a manager really has influence on a team. In most of those cases, I’ve questioned his decision-making and in most of those cases they went as badly as you might expect. How great an influence does he have? Not much. But in as much as he does have influence, I’d like someone who has a better tactical record making those decisions. I’ll grant Geren has improved over the year, but I’d like this team to go into their next big run with someone who isn’t “learning on the job” at the helm.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Really solid response,
I agree with you for a lot of it, except I feel that Geren has improved enough to warrant keeping his job. I don’t remember his last bonehead mistake, but I could have missed something. But to me, it seems that he hasn’t had one in a while.
That combined with how well the team is performing now makes me think he deserves to stick around.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Totally get that
The only thing I’d question is how much do people really care about in-game decisions once a team has reached a point where they’re completely out of it? Geren didn’t spend the second half focused on winning so much as focused on player development on a last place team. Once he goes back into “we’re going for it” mode, I just wonder which version of him we’re going to see and that kind of scares me. In a way he has a similar questionable position as Davis. Which Raj
shows up next year, which Geren shows up next year.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
That doesn't scare me as much,
I’d imagine someone had a talk with him about his tactical mistakes, as I don’t see him just getting away with those-but really I have no idea. I’d think that his tactics would stay the same as they’ve been when the teams been good, as well.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
In a more recent thread during our winning streak
several people, including myself, were still calling for him to be fired.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
So...
what does that mean?
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
PT thought there was wishy-washy-ness on the "Fire Geren" activist
corresponding to the ups and downs of the team. I was simply stating that that wasn’t the case. That there were people, even in the best of times, still calling for him to be fired. Personally, I had no issue at that time that he needed to be fired ASAP, but definitely in the off-season, something I still maintain.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Fair enough,
I just find it odd that people want him fired when the team is winning, even overachieving.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
I can definitely see why that seems odd
The same thing happened both times Macha got fired too, and I was happy for that as well, for what it’s worth. Part of the reason I was okay with waiting until after the season was a result of that, but a lot our recent success felt like a flash in the pan instead of something real. This team still has a long road to travel next season.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Good points again.
Once again I just feel that Geren has improved enough. But we have pretty similar views.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
You're reccing a comment that accuses posters of a mental disorder?
So much for a kinder, gentler AN.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I'm reccing a comment that calls out certain tendencies I find frustrating
Namely: When the A’s lose, Geren sucks. When the A’s win, Geren’s ok (or at least not in the way).
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
No opinion on Wedge.
But I join with the majority to give a big “DO NOT WANT” on Showalter.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
DO NOT WANT Showedgalter.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 3, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I still don't know how anyone can make such conclusive assessments of Geren,
it seems to me we know basically nothing. Anyways,
But I also believe a good manager can inspire a team to over-achieve. That is what I want to see. I don’t believe Geren can do that
Isn’t this team overachieving pretty ridiculously right now?
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
That really says little about the manager, in and of itself
Look at today’s starting lineup. (Unless you’ve eaten recently.)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Before 2007, I exclusively wore white socks.
After 2007, I exclusively wore black socks. The A’s won a lot before 2007. The A’s haven’t won a lot after 2007.
Therefore, my switching of sock preferences is the reason why the A’s haven’t won a lot after 2007.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Coincides with the return of their black unis, right?
Can we blame those on you, too?
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 3, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure.
The joy of post hoc ergo propter hoc is that you can blame anything on anything as long as they happened together!
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
that's why I only employ it for laughs...
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 3, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes,
which, as pointed out below your reply, is irrelavent. But is this team not overachieving?
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
WTH against Showalter?
I’m not saying Showalter is the best manager but for what Wollf is willing to pay managers, Showalter might be a good gamble.
Wolff is willing to fork over
a case of MGD?
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I’m not saying Showalter is the best manager but for what Wollf is willing to pay managers, Showalter might be a good gamble.
It doesn’t matter what is being paid.
If you don’t want to spend, promote from within.
Just one example (if you are misremembering about Showalter): NYY vs SEA, play offs 1995, David Cone and 2983742893742374 pitches.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
I think more to the point,
Showalter, as a veteran manager, is probably among your more expensive options.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
does that mean we have to suffer thru the Geren Dynsaty for 5 more years???
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
That would be pretty hard
to do from AAA after Billy sends him down again. But I guess if we can “Keep the conversation going” via mobile commenting, Buck can keep the game going via mobile managing. It would be kind of fun watching Young go out onto the field and watching Buck argue with umpires via cell phone. Not to mention cell phone ejections.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
I'm laughing at the idea of Young standing there with a bored expression...
…while he holds the phone up in front of the ump.
Does that mean when the ump ejects him, he grabs the phone and throws it at Carl Everett?
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Carl Everett doesn't exist.
So yes.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
I remain of the opinion that Geren is not very good.
But I also believe the manager doesn’t make that much difference.
My vote is to keep him for the last year of his contract, but don’t renew it nor exercise the club option for 2011.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Pretty much the plan at 2B, too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I wonder if Ellis' salary has peaked,
and the club can keep him around for longer if they so choose, for less money.
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Oct 3, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
For different reasons
Ellis doesn’t suck, and having a good 2B does matter.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Last seven games
Wots Hoppining? the last seven games the A’s reverted to bad Cust, bad Raj, bad Pennington etc. Suzuki was the exception. Was there a reason for this ? or just
tired excuses like they had tired bats. They looked to me to be similar to the team of early May.
Geren is a pice of shit
Bob Geren sucks Billys dick. Geren dosnt even make the line up Billy tells him to do every thing. Ron washington should of got that job. i would love to have Wedge or some one els cause BOB SUCKS!!!!
Um, wow. Calm down, dude.
It’s a manager in baseball. At the most, he’s responsible for a swing of a couple wins, if he’s not completely, entirely incompetent.
Lay down, black gives way to blue.
Lay down, I'll remember you.
What brought this tirade on?
Now I don’t know him personally, but I’m pretty sure he’s not made of feces or a homosexual.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
I think it means someone had several beers today.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Geren isn't very good
but I don’t see the point unless you can replace him with someone exceptional. The main reason that A’s aren’t winning is that they aren’t especially good at baseball, not Bob Geren.
I would like to see the A’s open up the purse strings one of these days and try to find a difference maker at manager, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Oct 5, 2009 11:47 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
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