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2010 Community Prospect List - #2

The Minor League season has ended, and Winter Leagues are still a ways away. So what do we have left to do but tally up our Minor League experiences and take a look at the state of the A's Minor League System.

If you want to view Last Year's list, check here.

The qualifications to be voted onto the list are simple. The player in question must be eligible to win a Rookie of the Year Award for the 2010 season-that is, he must be a rookie to start the 2010 season. Well, not quite. To make it simpler and not have to count days on the active roster, we will be going with 130 AB or 50 Innings Pitched.

Star-divide

Lots of players have graduated from last years list, such as Cahill, Anderson, Mazzaro and Outman to name a few. Several others have upped their prospect value while others have fallen. Its our job to figure out where they stand.

The list will probably go on to 50 again like last time, though it really depends on how far AN wants to take it.

So argue out which player you believe deserves the spot for the list. Bring out the stats, the scouting reports, and the pictures (I'm looking at you flashfire!).

If you think you know a prospect well enough, write a scouting report with your supporting stats and I will put it into the thread for the next vote, either for the player's Bio after he wins, or for his bio for voting.

If you think a player deserves mention, or should be put on the next prospect vote list, or prospects that should be kept track of, put them in the comments (and preferably mark them clearly) and they will get consideration. I expect the top of the list, as with last year, to go rather smoothly for the first few players, but it gets more difficult as it goes on, and its up to you to bring prospects to light so that we can all see them. Just ask Anthony Capra, last year's #46 (and this years much higher) how important that is.

Votes will last a few days per round, or until a clear winner has emerged by landslide.

First Vote Prospects

Adrian Cardenas, IF

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
AAA 51 .251 .317 .372 1 24 3 23 15
MID (oak) AA 79 .326 .392 .446 3 55 5 56 26

 

Jemile Weeks, 2B

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
MID (oak) AA 30 .238 .303 .343 2 13 4 10 5
STO (oak) A+ 50 .299 .385 .468 7 31 5 29 9

 

Grant Green, SS

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
USC College 54 .374 .441 .569 4 32 16 46 19
STO (oak) A+ 4 .316 .350 .368 0 3 1 2 1

 

Brett Wallace, 3B

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
SAC (oak) AAA 106 .297 .354 .460 15 47 1 54 21
AAA 62 .293 .346 .423 6 19 0 22 11
SPR (stl) AA 32 .281 .403 .437 5 16 0 22 5

Grant Desme, OF

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
STO (oak) A+ 62 .304 .398 .656 20 51 16 49 12
KAN (oak) A 69 .274 .334 .490 11 38 24 49 19

 

A's Community Prospect List

1. Chris Carter, 1B - 76%

2009 Stats G Bavg OBP SLG HR RBI SB R 2B
SAC (oak) AAA 13 .259 .293 .519 4 14 0 7 2
MID (oak) AA 125 .337 .435 .576 24 101 13 108 41

Poll
Who is the A's #2 Prospect?
Jemile Weeks, 2B
3 votes
Adrian Cardenas, IF
44 votes
Brett Wallace, 3B
245 votes
Grant Desme, OF
8 votes
Grant Green, SS
4 votes

304 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs  |  Comment 96 comments

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Comments

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Zonis, this is a great thing you're doing. Would it be terribly inconvenient to add the player age or DOB?

I voted Cardenas because I’m not sold on Wallace as 3B. Of course he could be really awesome at 1B/DH. I would have voted Ynoa had he been an option.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 2, 2009 8:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I was going to say,

Zonis, it’s probably a good idea to add Ynoa to every poll from here on out. Unlike most other prospects, he’s going to get votes everywhere from #1 to #50.

I won't heal, given time.
I won't try to change your mind.
I won't feel better in the cold light of day.
But I wouldn't stop you if you wanted to stay.

by danmerqury on Oct 2, 2009 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I third the "adding Ynoa" motion

Not that I’ll be voting for him next round.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Oct 2, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To me Ynoa is like a car

Until he starts actually playing, his value is in a constant state of decline including that “off the lot” value drop.

CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."

by DMOAS on Oct 2, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The timetable I have for Ynoa is for him to dominate AA

June or so of 2012

I don’t really care what path he takes to get there, and I see the small number of competitive innings on a teenager’s arm as a plus, not a minus.

by jakarta on Oct 3, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Until he starts actually playing"

Last year he was all shiny and new, but he hasn’t played a single inning of professional baseball. You can’t project a player who hasn’t played. You can hope he’s dominating at AA in ’12, hell I hope he is too. But to project him out at this point, is a bit ridiculous. He has no “competitive innings” on his arm (or at least none that really count), which says a lot more about his “small number of competitive innings”. His value goes up dramatically when/if he starts pitching in low-A and has any semblance of success. Until then, his stock steadily plummets.

CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."

by DMOAS on Oct 4, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Voted for Wallace

Went with Brett Wallace for #2 mainly because I believe in his bat. After hitting 20 HR in 138 games in his first full year as a pro he has answered some of my questions about his power potential and I think it’s realistic to project him at around 25 HR’s a year in the majors with the possibility of a few more as he matures.

His K-rate is a little higher than I would like but he has managed to hit for a good avg. at every stop even while being rushed. Also, most scouting reports seem positive that his swing will equate to good BA in the majors and while scouts aren’t the end all be all, I think this is a plus in Wallace’s favor.

Defense wise I think I am a little higher than most on his chances of sticking at 3rd. His size will always be an issue but he has good hands and a pretty good arm with decent strength and good accuracy. Everything I have heard about him suggests that he has a very good work ethic and a strong desire to work on his defense at 3rd. He will never be a gold glover at 3rd but I think he can be average to slightly below for a few years.

by DiegoAsFan on Oct 2, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

what are the results?

I am on a mobile phone and can’t see them. And it is a slow day at work.

by throttle mathius on Oct 2, 2009 9:22 AM PDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Wallace in a bit of a landslide.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 2, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted for Cardenas, but he and Wallace are the clear next two

I know it’s a pain in the ass, but I’d like to see more than five options on the poll. That kind of limits the available choices, which are going to get pretty broad once we’re past #3.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 2, 2009 9:55 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Especially once we get past no 5 – there are going to be a lot of differing opinions.

by DeJay on Oct 2, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it's less of a pain in the posterior, we could eliminate the lowest vote getter.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 2, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted for Wallace just to counter PT's Cardenas vote.

OK not really but I voted for him.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 2, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also voted for Cardenas

because I believe that his OBP and defensive advantage with make up for Wallace’s power.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

4 to 20 there are going to be a ton of differing opinions

Maybe we should actually discuss in depth who should be nominated after the Wallace/Cardenas selections.

by jakarta on Oct 2, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With so many people in disagreement about Wallace's chances of actually playing 3B

I’m surprised he’s getting so many votes over Cardenas. I think it may be a little bit of shiny new toy syndrome. Basically nobody—at least not well known scouts—thinks he’ll be able to do anything more than play a mediocre (at best) third base for more than just a couple of years.

Cardenas, for all the homerun power that he hasn’t shown, is still a pretty good offensive prospect, especially at second base, where he plays good defense. That’s my case, and it’s clear that it’s too late to change any minds, but I think Cardenas is criminally underrated—even by us A’s fans, who tend to value prospects more than gold.

If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.

by NateHST on Oct 2, 2009 12:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Its I had a a ton of press last year after everyone wanted to draft me

coupled with I really want a 3bman after Chavez itis.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Among those in the know...

i.e. scouts and so called experts, Wallace is considered our top prospect. I’ve seen more than a few pick him over Carter just recently. The AN community does tend to factor in actual results and other factors more than raw projectability hence Carter being ahead of Wallace around here.

But at some point, I do acknowledge what the experts are saying… If we don’t, then there doesn’t appear to be much difference between Wallace or Cunningham or Everidge… and yet we all seem to think otherwise. And for the record most of these folks have Wallace as leaps and bounds ahead of Cardenas.

Personally, without speed or power being displayed yet, I don’t think Cardenas should even be considered at number 2… and I’ll have to think hard about putting him at #3. If Desme were higher in our system, he would be my #3. As is, its probably Weeks or Cardenas but Desme’s stats are just so enticing despite the K’s.

by DrDoom on Oct 2, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Erm

We know Keith Law thinks that Wallace is a bee’s knee on sliced bread, but Keith Law really isn’t an “expert” in my opinion.

I’d lay 10 to 1 odds that Kevin Goldstein will rank Carter #1; same for Sickels. I’d give at least 2 to 1 for BA.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 2, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just did a quick search

Have yet to see anyone but the AN community not rate Wallace as our top prospect. Granted there are only a handful of lists made since the Holliday trade, but even those ones have Wallace ahead of Carter. I forget which list it was but Carter wasn’t even in the top 50 overall on the most recent one I saw. Wallace was around 20.

Among the scouts and journalist types, they don’t seem to really believe in Carter’s numbers. Most outright ignore Cardenas except for the rare mention from Jason Grey.

by DrDoom on Oct 2, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

None of the legitimate sources have done rankings yet.

most will wait for the AFL to get over before even starting.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't find that Badler chat... link?

Im not saying that people should be chastised for putting Wallace above Carter though I think that it is incorrect. I just haven’t seen any legitimate source do so.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 3, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apologies - it was Matthew Eddy

Back on August 11th

Tristan (California): Who is the better prospect, Chris Carter or Brett Wallace?

Matthew Eddy: I like Wallace: lefty bat, better feel for hitting, a shade more defensive value.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2009/268714.html

by DeJay on Oct 6, 2009 6:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing about Carter is he has more raw projectability

and he had a better year.

Second where have you heard that Wallace is leaps and bounds over Cardenas?

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just do a search for every prospect list you can find.

By system or overall.

This list is from MiLB.com of the top 50 overall… only Wallace makes an appearance:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090731&content_id=6161780&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

cbssportsline just put up one for the A’s system and it went:

Wallace
Carter
Weeks
Cunningham
Ynoa

Granted its a shmuck I have never heard from and not the best list but he is probably just borrowing from others. I’ve yet to see anyone rank Cardenas among our top 3. Not saying I agree with all of these people, but I wanted to let it be known what the word on the street is.

Carter and Cardenas get no love…

by DrDoom on Oct 2, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I don't trust Mayo...

He says things like Anderson has #3 upside way too often and his lists are absolutely terrible.

Your CBS list is for Fantasy purposes and therefore is dumb, stupid, and wrong since fantasy baseball has very little to do with real baseball.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

These prospect lists are great...

but I think it’s a little early to start it. It might have been better to start in January/February to see if the A’s acquire any decent prospects. As an example, they may trade Wuertz and get a decent prospect or two in return. Said prospect may rank in the 5 – 10 area. I just think it makes some sense to hold off on this for a little while, unless you plan to do this list twice this offseason. Unless, no ANers think the A’s will make any moves of significance this winter.

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Oct 2, 2009 12:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm OK with doing it twice.

Alternately we could make said prospect #7A or something like that.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 2, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and of course injuries might happen during instructs

and the AFL and winter ball… but that’s okay…

I see it more as a coming out of this season rather thana going into next season thing.

by jakarta on Oct 2, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For what it's worth,

Total Zone rates Brett Wallace’s defense at 3B between -3 and +2 runs / 150 Games throughout his minor league career.

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Oct 2, 2009 1:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Of course that's compared to the 3B in those leagues....some of whom are aspirational 3B like Wallace...

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 2, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tommy Everidge says HI

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even so,

his defense isn’t atrocious.

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Oct 3, 2009 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to total zone which isnt very accurate

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 3, 2009 2:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More accurate than guessing.

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Oct 3, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its not guessing

The variation between -3 at AAA and atrocious in the MLB isn’t really that high. Scouting reports say his defense is bad.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 3, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

do they?

I have heard people say he is not mobil enough to stay at third, but not “he is bad, like a butcher.” I could be wrong, you tend to delve deeper into that stuff. but, I think I am reading people saying not good. there is a difference between bad and not good.

by Future Ed on Oct 4, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your right on data but interpereting it wrong.

He is not mobile enough to stay at 3b and has very poor range. That being said he fields balls that he gets to. However, it is much more valuable to have a player with range who boots some balls than a player without range who fields them cleanly. Even a butcher fields a high percentage of balls hit to them. A fielder with bad range doesn’t get to a lot of balls. I would be very very very surprised if in a full season sample size Wallace ever fields at a league average clip at 3b.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 4, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Polanco is actually a good fielder

I think a better comparison would be Michael Young and Elvis Andrus. (Helps that they’re on the same team, of course.)

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 4, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I expected it to be closer.

I went with Wallace, but I think it’s a close call. The smart kids made a strong case for Cardenas in the last thread, and I do agree that Wallace is a bit overhyped. But even so, I still give him a slight edge.

Looks like #3 is going to be a relative landslide as well. Quite a contrast to last year, where we had close races right from the start.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 2, 2009 2:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

#2 was a landslide last season
  1. was either Anderson or Cahill, and then #2 was whichever one you didn’t vote #1.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 2, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True that.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 2, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cardenas

I was excited earlier in the season, but he just doesnt have much upside. At best he reminds me of a freddy sanchez type hitter, solid/above avg player. he still cant hit lefties, the speed/defense projects to be about avg, and the power has yet to develop. Its too bad, A’s couldnt get a taylor, brown, donald, or happ in that blanton deal instead of cardenas.

by Asfan4ever723 on Oct 2, 2009 4:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Donald?

Happ?

I’d so much rather have Cardenas than those guys, it’s not even funny.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 2, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Cardenas is epically better than Donald

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think A's fans just really, really miss power

So any prospect that has it, as opposed to one that doesn’t, kind of becomes preferred.

I like doubles power, it’s plenty, plenty useful, but I don’t think Cardenas will ever hit more than 15 homers in a season. I believe he’ll be super valuable due to his other skills, but I think that may be where the slight bias against him comes from.

we in the losin baseball binness. and cousin, binness is a boomin.

by walk off bunt on Oct 3, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wallace for me

I’m going Cardenas at #3 and you can’t really go wrong with either but I’m a sucker for power so I like Wallace over Cardenas at this spot.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 2, 2009 4:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I wrote this a month and a half ago but its still true
  1. Adrian Cardenas 2b/3b Cardenas’ tendency to struggle when promoted and then upon returning to the level dominating it, which seems to be reoccurring. In the past month, Cardenas has a roughly calculated wOBA of .386 compared to a .336 league wOBA. Lack of power projection turning into power in the box score is concerning but scouts say that he can hit .300 in his sleep so with his walk rate he becomes a very good player even without the power. If he hits close to .300, he is a excellent candidate to hit something like .300/.375/.400 in the bigs which is good for about 25 BRAA. His defense at third should be at least average once he learns the position. Essentially Cardenas isn’t a bad bet to be a 4 WAR player once he gets settled in the bigs and could be up to a 5 WAR player. That is a very good prospect with the chance to be one of those extraordinarily valuable players who gets absolutely no street cred.
  1. Brett Wallace 1b/3b/DH I don’t like putting him here and until his recent hot streak and Donaldson’s slump, I had Donaldson in this position. Defensive concerns with Wallace trouble me as does his low walk rate and his lack of production this year with the bat until the last two weeks. Hopefully, the improved productions recently is a sign that Wallace was rushed all the way to AAA less than a year after he was drafted and has recently caught up. His walk rate is very concerning as a pro. During his junior year Wallace walked in 16.6% of his PAs in AAA it has been less than half that. Defensively Wallace at 3b i think is at least a -10 FRAA from UZR. I expect him to have a bad range number but good double play runs and error runs since Wallace has a strong accurate arm. This would place his defensive comparable somewhere in the Ty Wiggington, Mark Teahen, and Josh Fields range. Putting up .280/.340/.480 line would give him about a .380 wOBA or about 25 BRAA. Defense would probably take away 7.5 to 10 runs fielding projecting him to be a 3.5 WAR player.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 5:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

DFA, can I ask you to rewrite that a little bit

make it less time-oriented (that is to say, make it so that it covers either just the player or the player’s year, rather than ‘in the past month’, or at least date it to say that ‘in August’ or something) so I can put it up for the player description? (Yes, it will be given to you as credit).

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Oct 2, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And preferably in the 3rd person rather than 1st person

but thats not that big an issue.

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Oct 2, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and also maybe write in a scene with dragons, or explosions, or maybe both

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Oct 3, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have one for carter if you like

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

please

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Oct 2, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also putting Desme on the poll is way way premature

Donaldson should be on there instead and there are a bunch of prospects that I would pick before him.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 5:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

For the first few lists, I am taking the MinorLeagueBall A's top 5 into consideration

for the prospects that were put up from that list. That means that after Desme, Leon and Ynoa will be up there soon.

I tried to limit it to 5 Players per vote because last year, we had so many players up to vote on that it got rather confusing.

I might expand it to 7 or 8 in a few rounds, but for now I want to keep it smaller.

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Oct 2, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the effort Zonis!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 2, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just think that Donaldson needs to be on there

He hit almost as good as Desme and has the potential to stick behind the plate or at 3b is a year younger and playing at a higher level without a long history of getting hurt.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Donaldson should be on soon

But is anyone seriously considering him for the top 3 spots? If he’s not one of the options by the time we’re voting for the #5 spot then I would start calling for him. It just seems a bit premature to worry about it now.

by DiegoAsFan on Oct 3, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hes the #4 prospect in system so he should be on now

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 3, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, according to you

You obviously know a lot about this system so your opinion may very will be correct but this is the community list. A lot of people really value athleticism and I think this will be seen in the support for Desme. I wouldn’t vote for him for a while but he as already got 7 votes and I expect the support for him to grow in the coming spots based on the lists over on Sickels site.

I can’t speak for every Aner, but you seem to be Donaldson’s biggest supporter and even you wouldn’t vote for him for another 2 spots so I don’t really see the problem with including Desme now. I have a feeling if things were reversed we would be seeing a lot more calls for Desme to be included.

by DiegoAsFan on Oct 3, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can fit how many options on a poll?

Something like eight, right? I don’t see any reason why Desme and Donaldson can’t both be on the list as eligible candidates by #4. (And Corey Brown, too.)

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 3, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More options is the easy answer

But I’m sure it takes a lot of work to put these together as is and I sure as heck don’t want to do it. So if Zonis wants to do it in fives it is fine by me.

by DiegoAsFan on Oct 3, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

votes now is not an indicator of proper placement

Especially because Cardenas and Wallace are in a higher tier of prospects than Desme. They are performing in AAA and have done so through out their pro careers with very good pedigrees. Where as Desme belongs with players that have more questions about their ability to succeed, people with injury and K issues in A ball shouldn’t be in a top 3. When you distribute the votes of those who voted for Cardenas and Wallace it is highly likely that Desme will not be the 4th best prospect according to the community, which is what the voting would indicate now. Furthermore, the people that are voting for Desme at #2 are people that have their calculation of expected value messed up as even if you want an injury prone player with high upside regardless of likelihood of getting to the majors, Ynoa would be a far better choice.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 3, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't mean to suggest that this or even #4 is his proper placement

Just that, while I may think Desme shouldn’t be considered for another 5-7 spots, there appears to be a lot of support for him on this site. I am willing to make arguments in the comments as to why he should be lower, but I don’t think it’s right to force that opinion by trying to get him removed from the options when I think there will be a number of posters who would like to vote for him.

by DiegoAsFan on Oct 3, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that votes now doesn't tell us much

since they don’t tell us anything about the #4 choice of the 97% who are choosing Wallace and Cardenas now.

Still, it’s very little work to add a few more names to the poll list, and my quick test just now shows the software allows at least 12. While I certainly wouldn’t suggest including the entire prospect list with every poll, surely it’s reasonable to include the eight or ten that people are most likely to want to vote for. And for the #4 spot, I think that would include both Desme and Donaldson.

Zonis can continue to feature only three or four in the text of the post, even if he adds additional names beyond those to the poll. Others can provide further information on their favorites in the comments.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 3, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another reasonable option

is to put a choice for “other” on every poll. Presumably this will get only a couple of votes each time, but if ever there’s a poll where “other” scores as highly or nearly as highly as the top vote-getter, that would be a cue that the poll needs to be rerun with a different set of names.

I doubt that would ever occur, but it would provide a fail-safe in case a popular choice is accidentally left off the list. Presumably people would state in the comments who the “other” is they think is missing from the list.

I think we did a run-off poll between two close contenders a few times last year, so a rerun wouldn’t be unprecedented.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 3, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Problem with this idea is that

if the A’s ever sign a draft pick whose last name happens to be Other, the whole poll could completely fall apart.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 3, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh

No.

No “other.” That would be irrelevant 95% of the time and a really bad idea the other 5%.

Just expand the poll. There aren’t going to be more than 10 or so reasonable candidates at any point anyway.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 3, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, expand the list then.

I was just trying to offer options.

I agree with the 95% irrelevant, though I don’t see why it would ever be bad.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 3, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When you have two "other" options that each get some number of votes

and then end up losing to the real candidate anyway, while wasting a few days on a runoff.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 4, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are the odds that Other would ever reach a level of significance

of more than 6 or 7%? If Other ever reached a point where it was competing with an individual player, the poll itself is completely jacked up to start with. It would be like doing the #1 vote without Carter & Wallace.

CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."

by DMOAS on Oct 4, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are we still talking about Ralph Nader?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 4, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you're an upside voter, like me, then Desme could appeal more than nearly everyone

else on the list. If you really emphasize certainty to reach the majors, then not so much.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 2, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally

I am going to vote for him as #3. Power and Speed are rare, and seeing as Deseme has both and copious amounts of both so yeah…

I'm the genius who said Chris Carter will slug .650 his rookie season.

by JamesCaprio on Oct 2, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Corey Brown: still better than Desme and playing at a higher level.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 2, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see Corey on the candidate list before too long.

Does Cunningham still qualify or did he use up his prospectness this year?

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Oct 2, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's over the PA limit

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Oct 2, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cardenas has huge understated upside.

Desme’s upside isn’t necissarily that favorable, and his health is very questionable

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Health is a skill

one that Desme lacks and to me that along with his ks and the fact that his real offensive explosion came fromt he Cal League kills his value to me.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zonis, I appreciate you putting in the effort

And to any and everyone who’s got a problem with how Zonis is writing his posts, I suggest you right one of your own.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 2, 2009 5:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Way too high on Desme

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 2, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

But I also feel that people are too low on Desme because of his age with regards to his level. I can understand everyone’s concerns with his K’s because they concern me as well. However, his age doesn’t concern me that much because at least he’s performing well and not becoming stagnant.

Put it this way, is there anything he could do (besides cut down his K’s) that would make you feel better? I think the answer is no because everyone will just point to his age and say “Well he should be doing that well.” My point is that I’ll stop getting excited when he stops hitting so well, and I feel the same way about FDLS when we’re talking about age-relative-to-league.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 3, 2009 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with all of this

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 3, 2009 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes and no

You are right being as old as he was for A- isn’t as bad as someone who had stalled out for several years before getting it together because he hadn’t had an opportunity. That however doesn’t detract from the fact that he is physically more developed than his competition and therefore has an advantage. My concern also comes from the huge jump in performance moving up a level. I worry about the Cal League helping Desme out a lot. For me to rate Desme highly he needs to perform strongly next year, essentially not getting hurt while cutting down the Ks and showing that his higher walk rate in A+ is real rather than his pedestrian walk rate in A-. As far as pitchers ARL is much less of a concern with pitchers so Im not worried about FDLS’s age as long as his recovery goes well. Looking solely at upside is in my opinion a fools’ errand and I think it is naive to deny that a substantial injury history, high K rates, and being old related to his league doesn’t knock Desme significantly below prospects like Cardenas, Donaldson, Weeks and even Brown and Green.

There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"

by designatedforassignment on Oct 3, 2009 3:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't care for most guys

but I think it’s a good sign that he got better each month given that he missed a year and half. Also, I might be completely wrong on this, but I think a wrist injury is less worrisome/less likely to seriously derail him than a back/leg/hip injury. I think he’s less of an injury risk than Weeks, and probably not much different than Brown.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Oct 3, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted for Wallace because for all the skepticism about 3B,

he’s still there and the A’s still appear to feel he might be an ok defensive 3Bman for a while. Until that changes, I give him the nod over Cardenas.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 3, 2009 12:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Brett Wallace wins

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Oct 4, 2009 1:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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