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DLD 1/8/09

Tiny by brenarlo on Comment 215 comments

I was just going to post about Heyman's report that the A's are interested in Orlanda Cabrera but didn't think it was enough.  So why not have a dump?!?!

Star-divide

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/38941

 

If Cabrera can be signed for 2 years and $15-18 million I think I'd be on board.  From the discussion already held on AN it seems as though he'd be a marginal upgrade over Crosby, but if the A's plan on contending then any upgrade is welcome... especially if it's at a position where there's no young long-term solution.

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2 years and 15-18 would be a horrific overpay for Cabrera.

I think that about the only way I’d be okay with bringing him to Oakland would be a minor league deal with guaranteed money if he makes the team out of Spring Training.

by mikev on Jan 8, 2009 9:25 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

same

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 8, 2009 10:09 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um, what?

Seriously, the Cabrera bashing around here has reached the point of complete insanity. Go look at his projections, fielding and hitting. Compare them to Crosby. For that matter, compare them to Pennington, if you really feel like getting depressed.

Orlando Cabrera is an average MLB shortstop. Read this if you think that somehow justifies a minor-league contract.

Assuming you actually want the A’s to go to the playoffs, instead of sitting around at home feeling smug about not employing Orlando Cabrera, your statement has no rational basis whatsoever.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jan 8, 2009 10:23 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of all people to call someone smug, you're probably the last who should be doing so.

Projections based on average of James/Marcel from Fangraphs and CHONE:

Cabrera: -13.5 wRAA, +1 CHONE
Crosby: -20.5 wRAA, +3 CHONE

Unless I’m missing something, that’s telling me Cabrera is 7 runs better with the bat and 2 runs worse on defense. Is a net gain of 5 runs worth 8M per year and a draft pick?

by mikev on Jan 8, 2009 11:01 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently to you, a net gain of 5 runs isn't worth a major league contract

I think it’s more like 10 runs, but then I think those projections for Crosby are comically optimistic.

I wouldn’t pay $8 million for Cabrera either, but he’s worth a lot closer to that than to a minor league deal.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jan 8, 2009 11:59 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, you were missing my point then.

I meant offer him a minor league contract with a wink wink nudge nudge deal to pay him money “IF” he makes the team in ST.

Basically an unethical way to avoid giving up the pick, like what Toronto did with Stewart kinda.

by mikev on Jan 8, 2009 12:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It seems foolish to save a million worth of draft picks and then spend that million on legal bills

when you are inevitably sued by other teams for making contracts in bad faith.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jan 8, 2009 12:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think MLB teams can sue each other

If I’m remembering right, this is part of the franchise agreement, and was discussed fairly recently here in the context of territorial rights.

Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough

by andeux on Jan 8, 2009 12:08 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're right.

But the Commish would nullify the deal.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jan 8, 2009 1:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ah, but Vic Mackey would let it slide

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 2:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Only if you paid him 5% off the top

And even then Shane would probably screw the deal up.

"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty

by 5Aces on Jan 8, 2009 2:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's not ask Jeremy what'd he do

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 8, 2009 5:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Didn't Toronto do this with Shannon Stewart

to screw us out of a draft pick? But I guess Stewart was more of a candidate for a minor league deal than Cabrera.

"Good or bad, I don't know. This is awesome." ~Nick Swisher after being asked if it was wise to poor beer on Lew Wolfe's head.

by humdinger on Jan 8, 2009 5:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shannon Stewart had 200 PA with a .600 something OPS

and is now, as far as I know, retired.

That’s legitimately deserving of a minor league deal, unlike Cabrera…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jan 8, 2009 11:12 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Few points-

The run difference on offense based on those two projections is more like 10 runs over a full season, because they both have Cabrera getting a bunch more PAs. Chone offense projections think it’s about 7 runs, zips, a bit above 10, based on zips liking Crosby less than the others (zips for cabrera is not available.) The projections have Cabrera hitting like he did last year, which is pretty reasonable, but they also all have Crosby having a better year than any of 2006-2008, which I think probably will not happen.

Offense:
2005: Crosby +32/600 pa
2006: Cabrera +10
2007: Cabrera +26
2008: Cabrera +10

As for defense, stats uzr 2003-2007 has Cabrera +4, bis uzr likes Cabrera by a wider margin. uzr is more reliable than the grab bag that chone uses. I don’t think it is reasonable to think Crosby is better on D. He is likely somewhat worse.

A final factor is that Cabrera has never had any health problems, and extra pt over Crosby given our backups is a fairly substantial value.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Jan 8, 2009 12:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would say more than 1, but 1 is pretty reasonable.

8M and the draft pick certainly seems like too much for 1 win, but that depends on what the other upgrading possibilities are. I’d rather get Sheets, but other than SP, it’s a pretty clear way to get some sort of upgrade.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Jan 8, 2009 12:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's up with CHONE's projections on Cabrera?

His UZR, +/-, and fan scouting report all check out better than Crosby’s. Is age a factor?

by CapgrasDelusion on Jan 8, 2009 4:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brewers get Hoffman

6 mil for 08’ with 1.5 in incentives and 2010 club option. I think its a solid move for the Brewers who could use a proven closer to help stabilize the bullpen and pitching staff as a whole, which has some question marks currently. Should be better than Gagne anyways.

Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless

by WiscoFan on Jan 8, 2009 9:34 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmmm

Do the brewers have enough money left to sign Sheets?

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 8, 2009 10:09 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think so

They are willing to spend if needed, but won’t just to fill a budget. I have the feeling they are waiting for Sheets to come back to them after testing the market some more, a wise choice considering they don’t want to pay him 15/year and the market is so slow/poor. If they can match 2/24 or something, I think they do it if given the chance. I hope the A’s would get him first but as a Brewer fan as well, hope at least one of the two teams signs him if the terms are favorable.

Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless

by WiscoFan on Jan 8, 2009 11:12 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

too much

his market is limited

teams will be very hesitant to give up a 1st rd pick
and the teams that wont have to, they already have short term fixes at worst.
2yr/10-12mill at most

by Asfan4ever723 on Jan 8, 2009 9:38 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the A's first round pick is protected...

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jan 8, 2009 9:40 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i know that

i’m referring to other teams

jays, maybe twins, cubs, astros, etc

teams that would have to give up a 2nd rd pick:

kc who doesnt have enough money and just might use aviles
reds who might opt to give hairston temporarily a chance
padres are interested in eckstein, vizquel and rebuilding
o’s signed izturis
tigers signed everett short term

by Asfan4ever723 on Jan 8, 2009 9:51 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting
Geren said he hasn’t settled on a batting order but he’s kicked around several things, including the possibility of hitting Cust second, with Holliday third and Giambi cleanup.

It’s not that exciting of news considering the relative importance of lineup construction and the inevitability of injuries, but it’s nice to see Geren thinking outside of the box like this.

This team has a lot of left-handed hitters. I think the plan will be to just bash righties and pray for the best against lefties.

Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.

by salb918 on Jan 8, 2009 11:02 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good stuff

those 3 are definitely the best hitters, and there would be a temptation to kick them back to 3,4,5, with Cust 5th. I am big fan of Cust in front of Holliday and Giambi.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Jan 8, 2009 11:05 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd imagine, with nary a real thought ,something like

v lefties:
Ellis
Cust
Holliday
Giambi
Chavez
Suzukl
Sweeney
Crosby/Pennington/Barton/Buck/Cunnigham (8 or 9)

v righties
Sweeney
Cust
Holliday
Giambi
Chavez
Suzuki
Ellis
Meat Balloons/Pennington/Barton/etc

by jeffro on Jan 8, 2009 11:44 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Add Buck in both lineups

After Suzuki in the first one and leadoff in the second. Then move Sweeney between Kurt and Ellie in the second one. Then I’ll agree with you.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jan 8, 2009 2:11 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cust, Holiday and Giambi 2-4

Wow I hope Geren didn’t hurt himself with that one!

Come on, Cust HAS to bat before Holiday in order to get some strikes and #2 hitters typically get the most fastballs (well, if you have a good lead off hitter…)

I’m more interested in who’s leading off and who’s protecting Giambi because I don’t see a lead off hitter on this team and Chavez hasnt been able to protect himself, let alone a 4 spot.

"Baseball is like a church. Many attend, but few understand." - Wes Westrum

by oaklandfan40 on Jan 8, 2009 11:57 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you High?

Cust CAN NOT bat before Holliday, just to remind you that holliday is a base stealing threat, do you think holliday will be able to do much of anything when cust’ fatass walks before him everytime he comes up? just a thought

by BRSween75 on Jan 9, 2009 8:52 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh boy

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 9, 2009 8:57 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

CUST WON'T CLOG UP THE BASES BECAUSE OF ALL HIS STRIKCOUTS!!!111!!!!111!

"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08

by doctorK on Jan 9, 2009 9:02 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or

Pick Cust up and carry him around the bases with him. Holliday is just that good.

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Jan 9, 2009 6:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

for the love of god

how many times must this be explained? for the last time “jack cust’s strickouting!!!11, baseclogging fatass” is good at baseball.

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Jan 9, 2009 12:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cust is good at baseball,

but bad for the entertainment dollar.

If we’re going to be saddled with a three-true-outcomes slugger, can he at least send dead rats to reporters like Kingman did?

"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 9, 2009 3:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true

but im not big on the entertainment aspect. i just wanna win baby!

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Jan 10, 2009 3:36 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll say it.

My hatred of watching Crosby play is larger than my utility for a second round pick. At this point, I’d be willing to give up a 2nd round pick in exchange for never having to watch Crosby again.

I can’t take 160 more games of that crap.

Never having to watch Crosby > 2nd round draft pick.

by BWH on Jan 8, 2009 11:28 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't think for a minute that even if the A's keep Crosby that he'd

stay healthy enough to play 160 games. ;) I think he’s good for 159, maybe.

by 33SwisherSweet on Jan 8, 2009 11:35 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Cabrera is superior to Crosby. No question…and it’s by more that just 5 runs. Take your eyes of the stat sheets every now and then and watch the game.

Side note: from a fantasy standpoint Cabrera is FAR MORE serviceable than Crosby. I know fantasy doesn’t necessarily translate to real world…but it’s worth thinking about when talking about two marginal players.

by swerv on Jan 8, 2009 11:35 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can I change my quote to

“Take your eyes off the stat sheets every now and then and watch a game?”

PLEASE? That’s the best thing I’ve read on AN in a while.

Although I’d rather just keep Crobsy as a $5M defensive SS than get Cabrera at what would be nearly $13-15M a year (after eating Bobby’s contract).

"Baseball is like a church. Many attend, but few understand." - Wes Westrum

by oaklandfan40 on Jan 8, 2009 12:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Take your eyes off the stat sheets every now and then and watch a game" followed immediately by a segue into a discussion of fantasy baseball is the best thing I’ve read on AN in a while.

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 8, 2009 3:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

beat me to it

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

{shrug}

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

with frozen squirrel daiquiris?

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what if they're cage-raised squirrels?

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha!

This man raises one hell of a gamey squirrel.

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nick Cage day in the monkeyhouse?

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 8, 2009 2:25 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know who raises a gamey squirrel?

If you prefer avant-garde squirrels, there’s always this guy:

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Jan 8, 2009 3:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Has anybody seen the movie "Vampire's Kiss" with Nicolas Cage?

It’s awesome. I highly recommend it.

"Good or bad, I don't know. This is awesome." ~Nick Swisher after being asked if it was wise to poor beer on Lew Wolfe's head.

by humdinger on Jan 8, 2009 5:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh my, yes

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 5:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"I've never mis-filed anything.

You just put it in according to alphabetical order. You know . . . A, B, C, D, E, F, G . . . " Priceless.

"Good or bad, I don't know. This is awesome." ~Nick Swisher after being asked if it was wise to poor beer on Lew Wolfe's head.

by humdinger on Jan 8, 2009 5:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

QOTM

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jan 8, 2009 12:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Grammar mavens

Is there a rule about comma usage in the following situation:

“This includes XXX such as X, Y, and Z.”

Comma before “such as” or no?

Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.

by salb918 on Jan 8, 2009 11:48 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I say yes

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 8, 2009 11:57 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm assuming

that although you are using X, Y, and Z as examples, the X is not a component of the original XXX. So, to use a real example, “this includes teams such as the A’s, Angels, and Mariners” there is no comma before “such as”. There is also some debate regarding the comma after Angels being unnecessary, but I would do it as you have.

by sslinger on Jan 8, 2009 12:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not a serial comma fan, eh?

Impostor! Frozen squirrel daiquiris at dawn!

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I, for one,

am probably too fond, too reliant on our friend, the comma, though I’ve been accused of both overuse and deliberately creating run-on sentences, which, of course, is ridiculous.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 8, 2009 8:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Always using serial commas makes ambiguity impossible

Not using serial commas makes ambiguity possible (although usually unlikely).

The takeaway: use the damn comma.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jan 10, 2009 10:49 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks.

Indeed, your example is analogous to mine (I didn’t want to bore you all with technical gobbledygook). The debate over the serial comma is one that has been had on AN (and, for that matter, on the THT internal list) and, personally, I’m a believer.

Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.

by salb918 on Jan 8, 2009 12:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess I should have went with a real example.

I would have then said no.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 8, 2009 12:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

/despair making gains against TDF’s hope that he missed an inside joke that gone with “should have went.”

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 8, 2009 2:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 2:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like to think

I’m outside the norm.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 8, 2009 2:30 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would you like to take a survey?

Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough

by andeux on Jan 8, 2009 2:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you like beans?

Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.

by salb918 on Jan 8, 2009 4:30 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

qotm

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 4:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about

“Teams in need of a shortstop, such as the A’s, Braves, and Dodgers, have shown interest in Rafael Furcal.”

It’s a different sentence structure, but I think the comma is called for there.

Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.

by salb918 on Jan 8, 2009 12:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's a ... different sentence

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yep

in that case, the comma before such as belongs, IMO.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 8, 2009 12:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Disagree

Re-typed without the comma: "Teams in need of a shortstop such as the A’s, Braves, and Dodgers, have shown interest in Rafael Furcal." Doesn’t change the meaning, therefore unnecessary. I’m not saying wrong, just unnecessary.

And for the record, while I brought up the issue that serial commas can be in dispute I sided with Sal on that one.

by sslinger on Jan 8, 2009 12:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no, actually, the comma is necessary there

Yes, you can suss out the meaning through context, but grammatically the sentence is saying “shortstops such as the A’s, Braves, and Dodgers.” Those ain’t shortstops.

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

likewise if "Bobby Crosby" was in that list

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 12:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Plus, say it aloud. There is a natural pause before “such as”.

by 74mk on Jan 8, 2009 12:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is usage, not grammar

I am a firm believer in the serial comma.

by Englishmajor on Jan 8, 2009 12:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Other believers in the serial comma include

my parents, God, and Ayn Rand.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jan 8, 2009 3:08 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1 000 000

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 3:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, there is a rule.

The rule says it depends on whether the “such as” clause is restrictive or non-restrictive.

If “such as X, Y, and Z” defines what kind of XXX you’re talking about, then no comma.

If you’re declaring your XXX and then “such as X, Y, and Z” offers exampes, then yes comma.

This is an important distinction, because the presence or absence of the comma might change the meaning of the sentence.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jan 8, 2009 3:06 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There was mention of this before

Both ways are accepted, but I prefer the comma and the and. That way there can be no confusion that all three parties are separate entities. For example if someone left a will and said to split their belongings equally between Roger, John, and Jane it is obvious that the inheritance is split thrice. If however the will said to split belongings equally between Roger, John and Jane, one could argue that Roger should get half the inheritance and John and Jane between them get the other half. It would be a stupid argument but it couldn’t happen if their was a comma between John and Jane.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jan 8, 2009 3:25 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

'No confusion'

It’s less common, but there are also cases where including the serial comma creates ambiguity while omitting it is clear. Basically, any time Y can stand in apposition to X but Y and Z cannot.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jan 8, 2009 5:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry, I posted that just before leaving work

and didn’t get back on til now. I really should offer an example, instead of just grammar jargon. So how about this:

“After the game, I went out for drinks with Bob, a guy I met in the parking lot and my sister.”

Without the serial comma, you know that four people went for drinks. If you add the serial comma, it’s not clear if the guy from the parking lot is Bob or someone else.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jan 8, 2009 7:58 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What if

Bob is both a guy you met in the parking lot and your sister ?

by green star oakland on Jan 8, 2009 8:08 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then you probably have

more issues to work through than regaling your friends/coworkers/random people passing by your box with stories of your evening.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 8, 2009 8:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's how I read that sentence

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Jan 8, 2009 10:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the real problem is that your example is a grammatical mess to begin with

No one would write it that way.

Bob, my sister, and a guy I met in the parking lot.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jan 10, 2009 10:53 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bob's your uncle and a guy you met in the parking lot

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 10, 2009 12:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Different sentence

But it is always neat when you run into your uncle Bob in parking lots (and he’s still a guy).

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jan 10, 2009 8:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OK, so that was a crappy example,

but it’s still not true, as you claim, that “always using serial commas makes ambiguity impossible”.

Let’s go back to the Ayn Rand and God example. Suppose the (probably apocryphal) author doesn’t want to thank her father. Then it says “I’d like to thank my mother, Ayn Rand, and God.”

Now it’s ambiguous whether Ayn Rand is her mother.

Like I said before, I personally like the serial comma, and I do think it leads to ambiguity less often. But neither style makes all ambiguity go away, and in either style ambiguity can always be avoided by recasting the sentence.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jan 11, 2009 1:04 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll concede the example

Although I will point out that “God, my mother, and Ayn Rand” is clearer.

I guess this is where legal writing is a brain-polluter, as the absolute rule there is to use the comma. Even in your example, the reader may be initially confused but if you can prove Ayn Rand is not your mother the legal meaning is clear.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jan 11, 2009 6:08 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I actually prefer the comma

I only object to absolutist claims that it removes all ambiguity.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jan 12, 2009 3:18 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Serial comma is a totally different discussion

Original query was about a comma before “such as”.

Personally, I use the serial comma, but I’m not nearly as adamant about it as many others here.

Your claim that one doesn’t normally use a comma and “and” in the same spot is wrong. You should always use a comma before the conjunction in a compound sentence.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jan 8, 2009 4:51 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You should always use a comma before the conjunction in a compound sentence.

Unless it’s a stream of consciousness in which case you just keep writing and writing and writing and I’m having trouble thinking of an actual refutation and I like toast.

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Jan 8, 2009 4:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t characterize myself as .

I have a strong preference — but the important thing with the serial comma is internal consistency. Either use it or don’t.

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 5:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nice pickup on the '80s theme there

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 5:41 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sweet Ba'al up in the clouds, do I feel old

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 5:41 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me too, Monkey.

Me too.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 8, 2009 8:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But we did just have,

like a fifty post collective rant on fricking commas! That was awesome!

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 8, 2009 8:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"But"?

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 9, 2009 2:50 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no, that was not awesome...

not awesome at all…

Sorry.

"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 9, 2009 3:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it was an old Tibetan monk,

or perhaps a cheesy 70’s sitcom that once said, “It takes diff’rent strokes to move the world, yes it does. It take diff’rent strokes to move the world. Grasshopper.”

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 9, 2009 8:42 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wha chew talkin' 'bout, Leo?

"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty

by 5Aces on Jan 11, 2009 12:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Holy crap, sal.

First it was confiscated periods, now this…

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Jan 9, 2009 12:38 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we sign Cabrera...

then this would necessitate a trade of Crosby. But in all honesty, this isn’t an easy feat to accomplish without kicking in a sufficient amount of money by the A’s.

Estimating the overall cost of this is at least 10 million (Cabrera’s salary plus the Crosby payoff). I think allocating this proposed “Crosby-be-gone” money in a veteran starter instead is a more wise decision. Especially if you factor in this. Duke is a FA next off season, so the A’s will be devoid of a pitcher remotely resembling a number 1 ace.

It may be wise to spend on this hypothetical pitcher now. But then again, the A’s could just take on the reclamation project that is Mark Mulder for a discounted price…

I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.

by franks a lot on Jan 8, 2009 12:09 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

People are too quick to assume that Mulder will ever pitch again...

And just signing him doesn’t mean he’ll actually pitch… or pitch well. He came back last year for like what… 2 innings?

If we can sign Mulder to a minor league deal I say ok… but that doesn’t come close to solving our potential problem in the rotation.

I say we go for broke and sign Lowe. Give him what he wants. He doesn’t get hurt… his ERA in Oakland will most likely be under 4.00. He’s a veteran guy. He’s not a clubhouse cancer.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jan 8, 2009 12:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree...Lowe is the best of what's left

And putting any stock in Sheets or Mulder is foolhardy. Even if Mulder is healthy enough to throw, there’s no way he will have the stamina to go an entire season. I can already envision Mark Mulder gasping to the finish line version 2.0.

I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.

by franks a lot on Jan 8, 2009 12:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we're talking about

injury risk pitchers, anyone have any idea of the health status of Takashi Saito? If he could be signed cheap, and if healthy, he could be a nice senior addition to the pen.

by sslinger on Jan 8, 2009 1:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So you're recommending we move the team to the East Coast?
I say we go for broke and sign Lowe. Give him what he wants.

"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk

by iglew on Jan 8, 2009 3:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They never should have left in the first place,

and if Connie Mack had been capitalized like the Carpenter family was, they never would have.

Of course, then this blog would be called Phillies Nation, the blog for Oakland Phillies fans.

"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 9, 2009 3:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who's willing to trade for Crosby?

There isn’t much of a market for a low-hitting, average-fielding, injury-prone SS at $5.5 million these days.

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jan 8, 2009 8:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know we all know that the HOF is a silly popularity contest and all ...

But really, should we have a little more outrage, mock or otherwise, for this injustice?

http://homerderby.com/archives/2247

by Rickeyfan on Jan 8, 2009 1:34 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rob Neyer had a column about that

and yeah, that’s just plain indefeinsible.

But still, Rickey’s going to be elected in a landslide. You’re never going to get everybody to agree on even the most obvious things. At least Rickey, by not being selected unanimously, will be in great company.

This was interesting:

http://homerderby.com/2009-baseball-hall-of-fame-bbwaa-vote-tracker

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 8, 2009 1:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ordinarily, I wouldn't have a beef with it under these circumstances

1. Corky submitting in a blank ballot (no one worthy)
2. Corky only voting in pitchers
3. No 1st year eligibles
4. Corky actually using all 10 spots (this one is dicey at best)

But no … instead, he used 8 spots (so he had 2 left) … and voted in Andre Dawson, Tim Raines, and Matt Williams (?!?!) over Rickey? Preposterous. I’d really know what his justification is other than “I an old douchebag and I wanted to be "that guy”." Even if he were racist, I’d come to grips with that, but that’s definitely not a reason. What gives?

by Rickeyfan on Jan 8, 2009 1:52 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I understand what you are saying.

But you figure that of the 38 HOF ballots that were examined by homerderby, 1 was completely inconsistent and screwy. That’s about 2.5%, probably better, in terms of nuttiness, than the population at large.

Some people are just nuts. And at the risk of sounding ageist, there is also a possibility that Corky might be getting a bit old to do this. He does have lifetime voting privileges, so there is nothing except death stopping him from voting.

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 8, 2009 1:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even then,

He could always move to Chicago and just keep on voting.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jan 8, 2009 2:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh and ..

http://www.gvnews.com/articles/2008/12/10/sports/sports03.txt

I think he forgot Matt Williams got snagged in steroid controversy.

by Rickeyfan on Jan 8, 2009 1:53 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Repoz, on BBTF

does a much more comprehensive tally of HOF ballots.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Jan 8, 2009 8:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From today’s Keith Law chat, some context:

Eric (NYC): So Henderson wont be unanimous, but the voter who omitted Henderson DID vote for Raines.

Keith Law: I’ve been swapping emails with the voter (Corky Simpson), and I get the impression that 1) he’s a big-Hall guy and 2) he figured Henderson didn’t need his vote anyway. He said Rickey is absolutely a HoFer. Now, I wouldn’t roll like that, but there’s some merit in the argument – I’d like to see a unanimous selection as much as anyone, but you don’t get a bigger plaque for that, and he voted for three of my causes – Blyleven, Raines, and Trammell.

ames (NYC): Speaking of the whole Corky Simpson story, I think it was pretty harsh how Neyer shredded him on a national stage (ESPN.com) and then dozens of jerks post nasty emails on the poor guy’s comments section. I think the whole thing was gross. Did you reach out to him b/c you wanted to know more about his backstory?

Keith Law: People love the anonymity of the Internet, because they feel like they can say anything they want. There’s nothing like having someone named “Dr. Poopypants” call you stupid or an idiot or whatever. Anyway, back to Simpson, he didn’t give his logic for omitting Rickey, and I don’t think you can respond to a piece like that unless you know the whole story. He’s been very gracious via emails, and I think he’s a little surprised at the reaction to his ballot, because he feels like he was being so inclusive.

by 74mk on Jan 8, 2009 2:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe Corky Simpson, the writer, should have explained that in his column or a follow-up.

Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.

by salb918 on Jan 8, 2009 2:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed.

But he sounds dimwitted/naive, not malicious/self-important. So possibly the scorn assault is a bit much.

by 74mk on Jan 8, 2009 2:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's ask PT about that

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 2:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you should change your signature line to “I don’t really consider arrogance to be a character flaw”. PT self-parody makes me smile, and is sort of endearing, whereas Chris Matthews self-parody makes me want to break things.

by 74mk on Jan 8, 2009 3:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How about this?

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 3:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is describing your Proustian reverie by calling it a Proustian reverie sort of like wearing an Metallica t-shirt to an Metallica concert?

by 74mk on Jan 8, 2009 4:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 4:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey!

That’s not a pipe!

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 8, 2009 8:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Duz your dugg bite?

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 9, 2009 6:31 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’ve been working like a dog

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 9, 2009 9:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But when I get home to you

"You have to score to win"~Rickey Henderson

by lynnzgal on Jan 9, 2009 9:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another writer puts up a "defense"

Link

"Geez, I thought I voted for some very good ballplayers," said Simpson in a Thursday e-mail. "I feel awful about being the only guy who didn’t vote for Rickey, thus preventing him from being a unanimous inductee. Mr. Selig, can I have my ballot back?"

I’m not sure if this is sarcastic or not…
“Very good ballplayers” – fine, but then you leave off the sure-fire Hall of Famer despite having 2 more slots available?! Plus, the article still gives absolutely NO explanation for Rickey’s exclusion.

The Ruth/Mays/Aaron-wasn’t-on-all-ballots argument is stupid. Because some writers in years past were stupid/biased/racist/etc, does that mean you want to associate yourself with them? It’s a fairly simple question: Is Player-in-question a Hall of Famer? If yes (and I guess, one of your top 10), you vote for him. Else, you don’t.

by calgbear on Jan 8, 2009 2:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ditto

"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08

by doctorK on Jan 8, 2009 2:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he's an old white guy from Arizona, okay...

Arizona is the most racist state in the west, other than Idaho.

"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 9, 2009 3:42 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope, not racism this time.

He voted for Bert Blyleven, Andre Dawson, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Tim Raines, Jim Rice, Alan Trammell, Matt Williams. They’re not all white guys.

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 9, 2009 6:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey, at least Corky's not anti-Dutch

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 9, 2009 9:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carnies.

Small hands. Smell like cabbage.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 9, 2009 10:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ummmm, not so fast...he didn't vote for Eddie Van Halen, did he?

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 10, 2009 4:04 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Looks to me like sal called Corky stupid or an idiot

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 2:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Keith has (privately) criticized me for using a Joe Sheehan column as a negative example.

He was nice about it, but advised me not to bring down others in an attempt to build myself up. I disagreed completely; my use of Sheehan’s work was, in my opinion, collegial and not malicious, but Keith seems like he’s a little sensitive on this subject. Everyone’s got a pet peeve, and I guess this is his.

Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.

by salb918 on Jan 8, 2009 2:25 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was actually just making a joke on "Dr. Poopypants"

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 2:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's times like these

that only Mrs. Lima can make me feel better.

(or have we sucked that reference dry yet?)

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 8, 2009 2:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think it will ever be sucked dry

At least, I hope not.

"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08

by doctorK on Jan 8, 2009 2:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Practically unlimited succor available there.

I’ve always loved the look on her well-fed kid’s face — wonder if he’ll ever be weaned?

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 8, 2009 2:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weaner.

The word you’re avoiding is weaner.

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 3:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ah yes

What comes around…

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 8, 2009 3:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Naughty, Wicked Corky!

FAIL!
BOO!
EPIC NONPERFORMANCE!

"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08

by doctorK on Jan 8, 2009 2:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wtf... no jury trial, insta-death penalty

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 8, 2009 4:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We're gonna need a bigger vote.

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 4:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

Ray: "How fun is it to be up here playing in the Big Leagues?"
Gio: "It's *SUPER* fun!!!"

by Poppy on Jan 9, 2009 12:40 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Corky Says: "Oops!"

http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_11408571

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 9, 2009 9:28 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ah, lovely: the ol' "I'm sorry if you were offended" non-apology

Boy, he really didn’t like Rickey, did he?

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 9, 2009 9:39 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"he would vote for him next time"

I can’t tell if he’s really, really out to lunch, or dickishly feigning naiveté.

by 74mk on Jan 9, 2009 10:06 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It really is difficult to tell

You know, if these writers- and I am not speaking only on this particular case- really wanted to make a stand, wouldn’t you think they’d want to be a part of the first group that had the balls to unanimously vote a player in?

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 9, 2009 11:18 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where is this guy right now...

I feel a punch to someone face coming on

by A'sfaninNC on Jan 9, 2009 11:26 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

might be is

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 2:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This man agrees.

Here he is, visualizing.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 8, 2009 2:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I presume he's visualizing this

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 2:31 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or, in later years ...

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 8, 2009 2:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or maybe just this ...

/I hadn’t noticed before what book he started the cut-out with — brilliant!

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 8, 2009 2:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Holy crap

Neither had I! Very cool.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 8, 2009 2:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nice subject line there

This is hardball! This is where we overreact! @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 3:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Given how many more we all want the team to do before spring training, maybe we need

someone good at acquiring things…

"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty

by 5Aces on Jan 8, 2009 4:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This same gentlemen has inspired me to buy a Dover Parkersburg Galvanized Metal Water Bucket

In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!

by DMOAS on Jan 8, 2009 6:56 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

awesome

Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.

by salb918 on Jan 8, 2009 2:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My favorite comment:

Got shiv. Shipped fast and works well. A+++++ Will buy again.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 8, 2009 8:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

replace "might be" with "is"

"Sweeney's a white Andre Ethier."--a white, drunk Billy Beane

by Cutthemullet on Jan 10, 2009 12:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was hoping this Corky Simpson store was a fake.

Really, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO KEEP RICKEY OFF YOUR BALLOT?
Is this guy senile?
This is a guy who is a gatekeeper to the MLBHOF?
I bet he STILL has his drivers license too, right?

"RIP: UserID: 553"

by Masaryk on Jan 8, 2009 3:25 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And he can vote for president. I BET HE VOTED FOR

(insert name of major party candidate who will disturb you the most here)!

"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty

by 5Aces on Jan 8, 2009 3:52 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You don't know that for sure

He could be a convicted felon.

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 8, 2009 4:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm actually kind of concerned

that the natives might soon start overturning cars and lighting them.

Damn Tebow.

You get Harvey Milk. I get GatorNation.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 8, 2009 8:36 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

USC would demolish either of the teams playing tonight.

Utah would give both of them a hell of a fight, too.

by mikev on Jan 8, 2009 8:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sure USC could stop Tebow.

I’m really not. And I’m not much of a Gator fan. I think they’d play him tough. But he just wins. Lots of grit.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 8, 2009 8:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

perhaps you're right.

I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico

by Leopold Bloom on Jan 8, 2009 8:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rey is the truth.

I’m glad you are coming around.

39 remarkable innings.

by ZigFan31 on Jan 8, 2009 9:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Doubtful

USC could very well beat Florida or Oklahoma but demolish? I don’t see that….any of the top teams could beat any of the other top teams on a given day, although I’m not sold on Utah being elite but won’t argue 13-0 either. Florida and Oklahoma were easily the most impressive teams throughout the whole year, especially the last 3/4’s. USC’s schedule isn’t as tough as Florida’s and helps them avoid losses but also hurts when they lose and don’t have wins vs impressive teams to overcome it.

Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless

by WiscoFan on Jan 9, 2009 9:56 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey Wisco -- Utah beat Michigan!

Then again, almost everybody beat Michigan this season, except, you know …

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 9, 2009 10:07 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

[...except, you know...] Wisconsin.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Jan 9, 2009 4:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha!

Wisconsin stunk it up this year, thats for sure…and blowing the lead to Michigan there is no excuse for really. I went to the game where they almost lost to Cal-Poly. Pretty embarassing as good as Cal Poly is, its a D2 school…good think their kicker can’t make anything.

Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless

by WiscoFan on Jan 9, 2009 6:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd put their non conference schedules on par with each other.

Florida loses major points for playing freaking Citadel, aside from that they had Miami, Florida State, and Hawaii. USC had Virginia, Ohio State, and Notre Dame.

Florida’s loss was to Mississippi, who was 3-4 and unranked when they played although they won out and beat Texas Tech.

USC’s loss was to Oregon State, who was 1 win away from being the Pac 10 champ and also won their bowl game.

I guess the whole point is the BCS just sucks and there needs to be a playoff.

by mikev on Jan 9, 2009 10:15 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

It stinks for the other top teams but USC also benefited from the system in the past of no playoff.

Non conference schedules, they are on par…Florida has a couple patsies, but so do pretty much everyone else. Ole Miss proved themselves as a pretty good team so that loss for Florida doesn’t look as bad as it was when it occured. The SEC schedule is tougher than the Pac-10, at least for Florida vs USC IMO, and thats with a big down year for Tennessee. And having a conference title game has shown to be a big boost for teams/conferences that have them.

Hopefully they can workout a playoff system in the not-so-distant future.

Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless

by WiscoFan on Jan 9, 2009 12:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A's partner with Japanese Club

they will exchange player development data as well as baseball operations staff. Interesting

Linky

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on Jan 8, 2009 9:33 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

from that same link

The Royals have a two-day fanfest? And we have none? Booooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jan 9, 2009 11:41 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

one day for each fan

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Jan 9, 2009 12:48 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Joe Posnanski and whom?

"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 9, 2009 3:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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