Orlando Cabrera: The Tangible Intangible?
You will not find a bigger Orlando Cabrera hater than myself. He's a bum. Not only did I always think he was over-rated, but I have always found myself naturally opposed to the teams he has played for - okay, not the Expos, but I loathed his presence on each of the dreaded Red Sox, Angels, and White Sox. (Red Sox for acting entitled, White Sox for the betterment of sabermetrics, and the Angels for being the Slegna.)
However, I was reading a random thread about Cabrera in which a commenter mentioned that Cabrera had been "lucky" to go to the playoffs with all of those squads. Upon reading this, I had to pause and think for a second, was it just luck or was it possible that despite his reputation as a negative team presence Cabrera might actually improve the players around him?
The following is my attempt at answering this question...
We all know Cabrera went to the playoffs with the Red Sox, Angels and White Sox, So What. These were all good teams that were, with the exception of the 2008 White Sox, expected to contend and by no means was Cabrera even close to the most valuable asset on any of these teams....at least directly.
Still, it is possible that Cabrera somehow caused these teams to perform better than expected. Can we prove causation? Of course not, but if we can demonstrate that Cabrera has consistently played for teams that have beat their projections, well than, that might lend some tangibility to his otherwise intangible qualities. (Look for this post to circulate on ESPN.com shortly)
Going year-by-year, lets see if I can find some half-decent projections and determine any trend...
Unfortunately, the only thing I was able to find is a PECOTA projections table starting from 2003, so if anyone can dig up the Expos projected record versus actual record data from 1999-2002 that would be useful.
But for now, starting from 2003:
In 2003: Expos projected wins 82, Actual wins 83, Error: +1. Cabrera had his best season ever that year, so one could easily argue that he was directly the +1 there.
In 2004: Cabera was traded to the Red Sox for the final 2 months of the season as they made their playoff push. Lets look at both the Expos and Red Sox that year.
Expos predicted Ws: 79, Actual: 67, Error -12
Boston predicted W: 106, Actual: 98, Error -8
In 2005, Cabrera signed with the Angels.
Angels predicted Ws: 83, Actual: 95. Error + 12
In 2006,
Angels predicted Ws: 81, Actual: 89, Error +8
In 2007,
Angels predicted Ws: 86, Actual: 94, Error +8
In 2008, Cabrera signed with the White Sox
White Sox projected Ws: 77, Actual: 89, Error +12
In continuing crude fashion, lets add up the numbers: , +1, (-12 - 8)/2 = -10, +12, +8, +8, +12 = +31/6 = +5.2 Wins over projected on average per season. Notice, I averaged the 2004 negatives since that was only one season, and even then the -10 is probably too harsh because the Expos most likely tanked after trading people away, while no doubt Boston only traded for Cabrera because they were well below their projections at that time and needed a boost.
Anyway, despite the many inherent imperfections with this kind of analysis +5.2 Wins over PECOTA projections for teams that Orlando Cabrera was a part of is pretty large to totally ignore. I'd be interested to find those earlier years Expos projections.
Lets withhold our disbelief for a second and imagine that this truly is some sort of "O-Cab effect." Just how much would O-Cab be worth to the A's if that was the case? Well right now I believe we project to be around 79-80 Wins. Replace Crosby with O-Cab and that is 80-81 wins. Now, add the O-Cab effect and Oakland would finish the season approximately 86-76 -- shit that would give us a good shot at the playoffs. Not to mention that Cabrera would have a WAR of over 7, worth a market value of about ~$35million/y
Conclusion: O-Cab is bum and I don't want him, but if we sign him for $4 million this is what will make it okay for me.
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35 comments
Comments
In 2008 the Angels jettisoned Cabera. Projected W -- 88, Actual W -- 100
Conclusion. Booting Cabera off your team is even more valuable than having him there. Therefore he has value even after he leaves!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 15, 2009 3:04 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
the conclusion is
sign him, then dfa him, your win total goes up by 17
it is not possible to strategize while the ball is coming towards you
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jan 15, 2009 8:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 15, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, maybe the bigger question
IS WHY DO THE FUKN ANGELS KEEP BEATING THEIR DAMN PROJECTIONS
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Jan 15, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the organization seems to believe it's because of Scioscia
a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jan 15, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And yet, can't win in the playoffs
Angels:clutch::Chavez:Mexican?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 15, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Except for the World Series title.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2009 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The 2002 Angels UNDERPERFORMED their pythagorean record!
By run differential, that was a 101 win team.
I know pythag is not a perfect or even reliable indicator of who wins baseball playoff series (nothing is), but you’d never know it if you looked purely at the Angels playoff teams of the past seven seasons. Their playoff performance has a direct and perfect linear relationship with their pythagorean record.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 16, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you may have proved something...
something you didn’t intend to prove, but something nevertheless. Projections in baseball are pretty much worthless. Stats are fun in hindsight only. PT, me and a monkey throwing darts at a dartboard would probably have the same percentage of being right about the teams that make the playoffs each year. Okay, I might be slightly more accurate than the monkey, but…
that’s only cuz I’d blindfold him.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Jan 15, 2009 3:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Have you got even a shred of evidence, besides your own belief,
to support your contention that projections in baseball are “pretty much worthless”?
Why do baseball teams keep paying smart people to make projections for them?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 15, 2009 8:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone actually researched this?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2009 12:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
People do retroactive checks on projections all the time. I know THT has published some, because I specifically recall reading one.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 16, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
given my habits, the blindfold is unnecessary
a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jan 15, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 15, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even the best projections can we very wrong, but you’ve posted quite a few of your predictions here, and those have been significantly worse.
Thanks for tomorrow 'cause I've had enough
by andeux on Jan 15, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what's the P value on how much worse Foolsh's have been?
a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jan 15, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's high -
heck, I urinate almost every time I see one.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jan 15, 2009 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This seems like a good place to ask
How many teams are the A’s “competing” with to sign Cabrera? It doesn’t seem like there are many other chairs to sit on when the music stops…
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
by EastCoastA on Jan 15, 2009 3:20 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
are the A's competing to sign him?
god, I hope BB is not that dumb.
Clowns to the left of me... Jokers to the right...
by FoolshGame22 on Jan 15, 2009 3:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I put competing in quotes
They’ve reportedly shown interest, but I doubt a bidding war will break out.
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
by EastCoastA on Jan 15, 2009 3:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not aware of any team being interested in Cabrera
Maybe there are talks happening under the radar, but unless I’m forgetting a team really only the Padres are still left without a SS.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jan 15, 2009 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
apparently the Marlins might be in on him
"I'm on hold for now"- Bobby Crosby
by DyeLongJustice on Jan 15, 2009 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then we should make Uggla our SS.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 15, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
marlins are interested
would move to 2nd – he said he would be willing to move if it got him a bigger contract – this guy is a cancer people – let him walk and let the cliff penningtion area begin
by ryanmoser on Jan 15, 2009 6:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Its in Cabrera's court
I get the feeling that if Cabrera came to the A’s with a offer that favors the A’s he would be on the team. Something in the 5 million range with a team option on second year. He is probably holding out until next month hoping for a offer. The marlin rumor doesn’t make sense since they would give up a 1st rounder for him. So cabrera if you want a job come to oakland and beg for it.
by Arcman on Jan 15, 2009 7:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
re: 2004
i think a better analysis of 2004 would be to pro-rate the numbers.
for example (easy numbers for easy math): boston projects to win 99 games. cabrera is there for the last 54 games. compare boston’s wins over last 54 games to 33. do the same with the expos first 108 games.
or, compare their pace pre-cabrera vs their pace post-cabrera.
does that make sense as far as comparing apples to apples?
by jlanning17 on Jan 15, 2009 9:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
definitely what I would have done, but I didnt want to bother.
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Jan 15, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, gotta factor things in, like
How much did Boston’s projection change with the addition of Cabrera, did they acquire other pieces…etc. It seems like Id be getting in a little too deep for something abstract
www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.
by ChadGod on Jan 15, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Defense
I’m sure this has been discussed before. But UZR had Cabrera at 14.2 for 2008. So, help me out here, is this guy a good defender or not? Was last year just a fluke?
by drink32 on Jan 15, 2009 11:04 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Both
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2009 12:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
UZR has had him at average to slighty above for most of his career
With last year being a fluke very good season. I wonder if it had anything to do with all the times he called the press box to get the official scoring of his chances changed.
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think UZR depended on scorer judgments.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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