Your new Hall of Famers
by Flashfire on Jan 12, 2009 11:09 AM PST
59 comments
MLB Network is showing that Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice have been elected to the Hall of Fame.
I think this is great for both, whatever the questions were about Rice and whether he was just very good or a true, deserving member. I'll leave it to the Red Sox fans to discuss that a little more.
Rickey's obviously a lot easier for me to talk about as an A's fan, but he played with so many teams that anyone could tell you about him and why he's deserving. The only concern I'd seen a few people speculate about was whether or not he'd be disliked by enough members of the media for him not to get in his first year.
I guess the only question now is how big a percentage of the vote he got. I haven't seen it yet but I'd say 95%. I just saw Rice got 76.4% of the vote.
Congratulations to both.
ETA: 94.8% for Rickey. Here are the players who have received a higher percentage: Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Cal Ripken Jr., Ty Cobb, George Brett, Hank Aaron, Tony Gwynn, Mike Schmidt, Johnny Bench, Steve Carlton, Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner. Oh yeah, and Lou Gehrig from the special committee vote.
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I'm happy for Rice
a guy from “my” era.
As for Rickey, I’ve think I’ve said enough on that.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 12, 2009 11:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
KNBR (Radnich) says 94.2% for Rickey
With 539 voters, this means 31 clods left him off their ballots, and therefore need to have their voting privileges revoked.
"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08
by doctorK on Jan 12, 2009 11:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
SI.com say 94.8%, or 511/539 (only 28 clods - sorry)
"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08
by doctorK on Jan 12, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We know one of the 7 people who voted for Matt Williams
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jan 12, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We have our targets...
now lock and load…
"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 12, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rice
I’ve always found it amusing that somebody “becomes” a Hall of Famer only after multiple votes. I see what’s up with the McGwire voters, but for a guy like Rice, what suddenly makes him worthy? With the Hall of Fame, don’t you just instinctively know a Hall of Famer when you look at their body of work?
by Fooch on Jan 12, 2009 11:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
He was worthy all along,
but the writers made him squirm all these years because he treated them like shit for most of his career.
"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 12, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cmon, people
Ryan, Ripken, Gwynn all receiving more votes than Rickey is a joke. And the last two just happened, so it’s basically the same voter pool. Shame on you, BBWAA
by windyfelix on Jan 12, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
I doubt they do.
Being named is more important than who got more votes.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jan 12, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
RICKEY! RICKEY! RICKEY!
My dad took me to see Rickey tie the record in 1991. I was so excited the next day. At school, I wanted to tell my old second grade teacher what I had witnessed because I knew she was an A’s fan. For some reason I can’t remember, I was really nervous, like she wouldn’t believe me. I lingered within 10 feet of her throughout recess. Finally, she walked up to me and asked me if I had something that I wanted to say. I spit it out and started jumping up and down as I told her the story.
Bless you, Rickey.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jan 12, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You’re awesome.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 12, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beautiful story Sal
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jan 12, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jay Bell
How did this guy get 2 votes? Seriously, I love baseball, but I can barely remember Jay Bell.
"RIP: UserID: 553"
by Masaryk on Jan 12, 2009 11:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm more surprised
of the lack of support for Cone head. Perfect game, almost 200 wins, multiple WS, two Cy Youngs, 20-4 record in 86. I guess he may not be Hall Worthy but I’d think that he’d at least be 5% worthy
Let's have our Piazza and eat the Cust too - SPWC
by closetasfan on Jan 12, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesse Orosco got one vote
I thought he was still playing.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jan 12, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rickey Henderson of pitchers
"RIP: UserID: 553"
by Masaryk on Jan 12, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FIRE BBWAA NOW!!!!
But I must say. WELL DESERVED CONGRATS TO RICKEY! A man who will always be underrated because he’s truly one of the ten players ever.
by tomoyo on Jan 12, 2009 11:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Here's one guy who has an objective way to vote
Jaffe’s choices: Rickey, Mac, Trammel, Raines, and Blyleven
"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08
by doctorK on Jan 12, 2009 11:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
For the record: Raines (22.6%) > Rice (76.4%)
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jan 12, 2009 11:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
So are a lot of non-HOFers
Dewey Evans—who was Rice’s teammate for most of his career—is basically Rice’s equal with the bat and was a much better defensive player. Of course, he dropped off the ballot years ago.
Raines is basically Tony Gwynn, while Rice is a lesser Reggie Smith.
by Danny on Jan 12, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Reggie Smith was not greater than Rice...
crazier maybe, but not greater
"I have more questions after these."-WaddellCanseco
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 12, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
Player A: 1987 games, 137 OPS+, 800 games in CF, 1 Gold Glove
Player B: 2089 games, 128 OPS+, 0 games in CF, 0 Gold Gloves
Smith was a better hitter and defender. Rice has a slight advantage in playing time and a big advantage in playing in a more favorable hitting environment.
by Danny on Jan 12, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Make that Raines >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rice
It’s amazing how Raines…who is definitely a first or second ballot hall of famer, is somehow getting worse numbers than rice ever did. That’s total bullshit imho.
by tomoyo on Jan 12, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Both Raines and the Hawk
have been dramatically hurt by their playing a lot of good, good years in Canada. The major media seemed to always kind of laugh under their breath at Montreal, Montreal didn’t collectively embrace the Expos and the city no longer has a team, so there’s not as many people around to sound the alarm for them. By the time Andre got to the Cubs, he had to ice both knees before and after each game, so what the majority of us saw was still a great player, but on the backside of his career.
We’re all outraged over Bill King not being in (and if you’re not, you should be, damn it!), but think about how even less support he’d have if the A’s were moved 1,500 miles south and were called something else now.
I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 13, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ENSALADA DE REPOLLO LIBRE!
a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jan 13, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Where?
I see a deranged rabbit, on fire, cowering away from a vagina. I await the results of the Rorschaschererer. -Nico
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 13, 2009 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Rickey!!!!!
I’m stoked he is in! I don’t think there was much doubt, but I’m happy as a clam and feel proud to have seen him play!!
Save the thesaurus for when you are in front of the judge. When speaking of the A's, speak with your heart on...................your sleeve!
by norcalfan on Jan 12, 2009 11:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ugh...
Rice gets in because he was on the Red Sox, Rickey doesn’t get the vote of 28 idiots, and Blyleven and McGwire don’t get in again (and Trammel and Raines…who are both way more worthy than Rice). The HOF vote needs an overhaul.
Anyways, I’m super excited for Rickey. It will be fun to see what he has to say at the induction ceremony.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2009 11:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
One thing that bugs me.
Everybody focuses on the steals. That’s great. He holds the record. He deserves recognition. We should talk about all the stolen bases.
But you know what nobody ever talks about? The .401 career OBP. Career! Over a quarter-century he had a a .400 OBP.
The all-time runs scored record. The single most important thing in baseball is to score runs. Rickey did it like nobody else. Top 5 all-time in plate appearances. Second all-time in career walks. Fourth all-time in times on base. Almost 300 HR. Over 500 doubles. First all-time in entertainment factor.
Rickey was so much more than just the stolen bases.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jan 12, 2009 12:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Let's also not forget the 81 leadoff HRs
81! That’s insane.
a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jan 12, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
though, to be fair, that's probably within the normal distribution range for 4-5 PA/G for a guy with 300 career HRs
a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jan 12, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He also had 5 walk-offs
Tied with Reggie and Matt Stairs for first on the all-time A’s list.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 12, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well said.
.401 career OBP is just ridonkulous. I wonder if Billy would considered bringing Rickey back for another go at it? ;)
But seriously, congrats go to Rickey- he deserves it. Rickey not only was my favorite player who I tried to emulate on the little league field, but he was just a joy to watch— both in the outfield, at bat, and everywhere else. I have so many fond memories of him, from his neon green Mizuno batting gloves to being pulled out of school to witness him breaking Brock’s record in 1991, witnessing at least 5— maybe 10— of his homers to lead off a game, and my most special Rickey memory of all: Taking a trip to New York City and getting to go to Yankee Stadium to see the A’s play the Yanks. Rickey was a Yankee at the time (he hit a leadoff homer), and between innings my sister and I ran down to the left field wall and yelled “HEY RICKEY— WE CAME ALL THE WAY FROM OAKLAND JUST TO SEE YOU!!” Rickey looked over at us, smiled, and gave us a big thumbs up. I’ll never forget it.
Blogadilla.com: The Tijuana of the Internet
by rungood on Jan 12, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mizuno gloves.
Like just about every other fast kid playing little league in the late 80s, I owned a pair of bright green mizuno gloves.
by mikev on Jan 12, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
me too...
I didn’t want any fancy toys for my birthday back then, I just wanted those mizuno gloves
by RickeySteals on Jan 12, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's probably a good thing he retired when he did ...
If he had put up 259 PAs at his 2003 OPS, his career total would have dropped below .400 …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jan 12, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rickey knows what Rickey's doing!
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jan 12, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
28 baseball writers
are the dumbest people on the face of the earth
by MaineAthletic on Jan 12, 2009 12:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I pretty much never agree with the bad Rev,
Rice did not. Had he played for a scattering of teams ala Andre Dawson, Rice might not have even remained on the ballot this long. The late-’90s surge in contemporary Red Sox nostalgia on the way to the team building a new dynasty has imbued revisionist history toward Jim Rice
passes the sniff-test on my poorly-calibrated unintentional conspiracy-meter.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jan 12, 2009 12:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
personally, I think the anti-McGwire “he played back when players were pure” b.s. has more to with Rice’s vote totals
a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jan 12, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm there!!!
Any suggestions on going to the HOF ceremonies. I’m there!!!
"Hey dad my Jack Cust Bobblehead is batting right handed"....."He's not batting right handed he's striking out swinging."
by What Would Rickey Do on Jan 12, 2009 2:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah for Rickey!
Rickey Henderson is a big reason I’m an A’s fan and I’m glad I get to see him in the Hall. It’s unfortunate there were a number of imbeciles who didn’t list him on their ballot, but to be honest I just can’t get upset about the whole ‘unanimous selection’ brouhaha.
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
by JLeverenz on Jan 12, 2009 2:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Hall of Fame means nothing until Tim Raines is in it.
Also, Jim Rice doesn’t deserve it, but I’m glad he’s in so all the obnoxious Rice supporters who don’t realize there’s about 50,000 reasons why he doesn’t belong will shut up forever.
by thejd44 on Jan 13, 2009 8:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
With all due respect
How the heck does Tim Raines deserve to be in the HOF??? I always liked him, but never considered him great. Show me the the numbers — sway me.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jan 14, 2009 8:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I just googled Tim Raines
and read an article defending his “Hall-worthy status”. The comment that jumped out at me was “what pushes Raines above other Hall-worthy hitters are his walks.”
If this is an OPS argument again, just tell me that and I’ll move on … I don’t get it, I admit that. I’m no Rice fan, and everyone knows how I feel about the Red Sox … but if you asked me who I’d be more afraid of facing, I’d gladly take a Raines walk any day.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jan 14, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well ... lets start with the fact that he was basically a career .300 hitter (.294 ... if he had retired at 38 instead of 42, he would have probably made that milestone ... too drunk to do the math)
He also added about 90 points of on base-ing through the walk every year and stole the fourth most bases of all time, at a success rate that makes Rickey Henderson jealous (84%) … and Lou Brock … and Ty Cobb … Vince Coleman … Eddie Collins … Joe Morgan … Campy Campaneris … Kenny Lofton … Otis Nixon … okay, well, everyone with at least 600 career stolen bases that played in an era when CS was recorded (post 1920 or so) except Willy Wilson, who he also topped, but who at least came close. Of course, WW couldn’t come close to Raines with the bat because Raines edged him in BA, lapped him in OBP and wasn’t even in the same competition in Slg …
What’s that? Yes, Tim Raines had some power too. Yes, a lifetime IsoSlg of .131 is very solid for a leadoff guy, not far behind Rickey’s .140.
He also played 22 seasons, so he has some solid counting stats to offer.
He’s not an inner circle guy, like Rickey … but he clearly belongs.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jan 15, 2009 2:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One more point ...
I think the only reason that he isn’t already in the HOF is that he was drafted by Montreal and played most of his career and all but one of his peak seasons north of the border.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jan 15, 2009 2:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm, I guess I never really looked at the numbers
I know it isn’t scientific by any stretch, but I just don’t think Hall of Fame when I think of Tim Raines. Perhaps I oughta re-think that. (But then, I never thought Hall of Fame when I hear Ryne Sandberg’s name, either.) Thanks.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jan 15, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I do think there is a certain amount of validity to that sort of "test" ...
It is, after all, the Hall of “Fame”, not the Hall of “Objectively Great” …
I would say it’s proper use is as something of a tie breaker for a player on the tipping point … but Tim Raines shouldn’t be at the tipping point.
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jan 15, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there's probably some BBWAA old-timers who still hold the coke thing against him
a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@
by monkeyball on Jan 15, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey devo...
I think that you’d be a good guy to write a piece about how the HOF selects inductees. Would you support a formula process like tennis uses? I wouldn’t because we’d have all of our stat guys sitting there with their calculators counting down the precise hit or homerun that would put the player into the Hall. Would enjoy to hear your ideas.
by IM4Oakgal on Jan 16, 2009 12:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't want to completely change the structure like that ...
I would say they should reconsider who does the choosing — older journalists are accountable to no one and have a natural tendency to have somewhat outdated ways of thinking about the game. What exactly it should look like, I don’t know. Ultimately, though, the imperfection of it adds to the enjoyment. If everything were clear and rational, what’s the fun in that?
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Jan 16, 2009 1:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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