how bout trading within the division?
by Wreckonized on Jan 11, 2009 7:58 PM PST
53 comments
this is my first post =D
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090111&content_id=3739905&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp
Michael Young asked the rangers to explore a trade
ARLINGTON -- The Rangers have asked Michael Young to move to third base. Young has asked the Rangers to explore a trade.
The Rangers want Young to play third base so they can use rookie Elvis Andrus at shortstop. The Rangers are reluctant to use Travis Metcalf at third base.
Young has been the Rangers' shortstop over the past five years after moving over from second base. He is a five-time All-Star at the position and won a Gold Glove in 2008. He is signed for $80 million over the next five years.
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The GG award is a joke
Young is a liability at SS. His bat used to carry him, but his offensive value has plummeted over the past few seasons. The bloated contract, and the cost of acquiring him, no matter how low, just makes the decision that much easier: pass.
by CapgrasDelusion on Jan 11, 2009 8:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't that bad last year at SS, but his contract is so onerous I wouldn't even trade Crosby for him.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 11, 2009 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one whi thinks this is a selfish dick move?
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Jan 11, 2009 8:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.
by Joey C. on Jan 11, 2009 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is too. But then I'd have made Jeter move for A-Rod too.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 11, 2009 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see it as a dick move at all
Because the Rangers asked it of him, Young worked like hell to make himself a good shortstop. It took him a ton of effort, and he’s sacrificed a lot, including 20 pounds of muscle and a good chunk of his offense. If I was him, I’d be pissed if I’d done all he had, finally had my hard work recognized and rewarded with the industry’s top defensive award and then had the team want to move me for a rookie who hasn’t been above AA. I really can’t blame a player for thinking Gold Gloves matter and are valid. And if the report is accurate, he asked for the trade a month ago and it hasn’t been public knowledge, so he’s not playing media games to force the issue. Now, don’t get me wrong, I also see the Rangers’ request as totally reasonable and if/when Andrus is ready, the decision to move Young off SS is sound. Doesn’t make Young a dick for feeling dicked around though.
As far as the A’s trading for him…hell no.
by AgitationStation on Jan 11, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The main reason it is fair of the Rangers to want him to move
is that he isn’t a plus SS anymore. They are reacting to a reality, which is that Young still has the physical tools to be a good 2Bman but no longer has the tools to be a good SS.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jan 11, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just think that you're supposed to do what the team thinks is best.
But hey, what do I know?
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Jan 11, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. If Alex Rodriguez was willing to move to 3B, I'm having trouble sympathizing with
anyone else being too big to do it.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 12, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do what the team thinks is best?
If you are worth $10 million as a SS, and are worth $7 million as a 3B, then I don’t think it is unreasonable to want to stay a SS.
by RayJEdd on Jan 12, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is an odd take,
given they just committed $80M to him over five years.
by Nate on Jan 12, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he already moved from second to shortstop for some one far more inferior to him at def, when Alfonso Soriano came
by Wreckonized on Jan 11, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because SS is a more valuable position....it's a promotion.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 12, 2009 12:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A selfish dick move in pro sports?
Oh no way? Color me shocked.
by jeffro on Jan 11, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
I’ve said that I’m in favor of overpaying to figure out SS, but I’ll give this a big ol’ thumbs down.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jan 11, 2009 8:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What?
4 more years at $16 million annual (part of that deferred) isn’t your cup of hemlock?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jan 11, 2009 8:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
Try 5 more years…
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jan 11, 2009 8:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And in two years you'd have to figure out SS all over again.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 11, 2009 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You could just shift Young to 3B...
wait a sec.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jan 11, 2009 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
He might actually be more amenable in a couple of years when he’s not just won the Gold Glove, but his hitting is likely to be bad for a 3B by then….or he might keep winning Gold Gloves.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 11, 2009 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I sit corrected
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jan 11, 2009 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Rangers could trade Young for Zito they should.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 11, 2009 8:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
They both went to the same college after all...
Though Barry Xfer’d after he played too much guitar on the beach and found himself passed out on DP one too many times.
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Jan 11, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Worse things can happen in IV.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Jan 12, 2009 7:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I always liked Young when he was in his prime, but currently
he is a declining defensive player whose away stats are very mild compared to his overall stats, and his contract is horrific. Not a lot to like, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jan 11, 2009 8:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Right.
You could live with the bad-to-mediocre defense when he could crank 20 homers and hit well over .300. The problem is, the defense is getting worse and 2005 is looking more like a peak year than a breakthrough year.
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Jan 11, 2009 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
his contract status is at 60 some mil for 5 years, as 20 mil was part of a bonus thats paid for by the rangers.
sure he is not the best def shortstop but at ~12 mil a year thats what MOST OF YOU GUYS WANTED to pay furcal.
by Wreckonized on Jan 11, 2009 8:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Info?
Cot’s says 5/80M, says nothing about a signing bonus. Some of it is deferred money, which slightly reduces the present value of the contract, but only slightly.
If you’re comparing him to Furcal, Furcal is a much better player. Young is actually a defensive negative overall, which is quite a feat considering that he’s a shortstop (they get a big boost for positional adjustment)— and he’s no longer an above average hitter to make up for it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 11, 2009 9:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean Furcal is a better player if you assume he's healthy.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 12, 2009 12:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tis true about the bonus
Whats left is about 62 mil over 5 years.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 12, 2009 2:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Got a link? I can't find anything other than the $80M.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 12, 2009 2:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers have been listening to trade proposals for Young, an All-Star the past five seasons. Young, who is owed about $60 million over the next five seasons, holds a full no-trade clause. However, he would rather be traded than displaced for Andrus, who has yet to play above Class AA, sources said.
he did win the gold glove after all. He is a lock for at least 180 hits, hes played in the AL and proved that he is able to hit AL pitching unlike Furcal, if you refer to you numbers you can find all sorts of negatives in every single player.
by Wreckonized on Jan 11, 2009 9:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Truthfully, though, GG or not Young defense
is not that much different from Orlando Cabrera’s, and Cabrera is also a 180 hit kind of player. Would you want to give up talent to pay Young $60million when you could sign Cabrera for half the money, less than half the commitment of years (plus a 2nd round pick)?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jan 11, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Young's defense is a whole whale of a lot worse than Cabrera's
CHONE projects him as a full win worse on defense.
The Rangers aren’t going to be able to move him without eating a large percentage of his salary. If the reports are correct and he’s actually only due $60 million (maybe the rest went to him in ‘07 and ’08 when he was still technically on his old contract?), I could see them getting offers if they eat half of that. $30 million for 5 years isn’t horrible if you conceptualize him as a starter initially gradually declining into a utility/bench role. Though they still probably shouldn’t get much in the way of prospects in return for him at that price.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 11, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A smarter course for another team might be
to trade for him, if Texas will eat half the salary, as a 2Bman. I can see him being a good “poor man’s” alternative to Orlando Hudson for a team that can’t afford what Hudson will command.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jan 11, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His range sucks (though he's surehanded on balls he gets to)
I doubt he’d be average as a second baseman; as a matter of fact, once you adjust for position, he actually might be even worse there.
He might be an average defensive third baseman, which would make him project as about a league-average player for now.
In any event, it’s a moot point— the event precipitating his trade demand is the Rangers trying to move him off of shortstop, which doesn’t suggest that he’s exactly in a helpful frame of mine re: changing positions.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 11, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Except I hear he doesn't like changing positions since he worked so hard to become a good SS
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 12, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
80 million??
In 3 years he will a DH. He can hit but not at 16 million a year.
by Arcman on Jan 11, 2009 9:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Bless the Rangers for that Contract
Sincerely,
Good teams.
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by ChadGod on Jan 11, 2009 10:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Al Davis work for the Rangers?
"You Went Full Retard, Man - Never Go Full Retard." --Kirk Lazarus
by Ovale Fan on Jan 12, 2009 1:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actual details about his contract
Young next season begins the five-year, $80 million contract extension he signed during spring training in 2007 that prevented him from becoming a free agent. Young is due about $62 million over the next five seasons since some of the money was paid as a signing bonus and more is deferred.
by Wreckonized on Jan 12, 2009 2:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Link?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 12, 2009 2:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
those numbers are on every other article talking about this other then the one on mlb.com
by Wreckonized on Jan 12, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
32 errors in double A
Andrus hit .295 with four home runs, 65 RBIs and 56 stolen bases in 118 games for Double-A Frisco last season. He had a .944 fielding average with 32 errors.
Thats is the player they want to have at SS instead of Michael Young, the rangers obviously dont value young at all.
why have some one who made 32 errors in the minors replace a 5 time allstar and a “goldglover”
by Wreckonized on Jan 12, 2009 2:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Indeed they value youth, rather than Young.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 12, 2009 2:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no proof of this,
but I postulate as a discussion point that error rates for minor league middle infielders are actually a positive indicator of fielding ability.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 12, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
re
Error rate as proof of range used to be a commonly held belief in the SABR community. James held that belief almost from the start. I don’t know if he ever studied it though.
by AgitationStation on Jan 12, 2009 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know that (I've never really read James's old stuff)
Well, at least I’m in good company.
It’d be a good topic for a Staturday, and it’s even somewhat A’s related since two A’s SS prospects (Petit and Christian) have similar fielding reviews to Andrus, in that the scouts really like them but they have made a lot of errors. Anyone? Anyone?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Jan 12, 2009 7:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Young better than Furcal
Speaking from personal knowledge of the man, Michael Young is a first rate player and always has been a team-first guy. His request for a trade means that he just wants to do that for another team. He’s been the face of that franchise since ARod left and every spring training he’s been told by management that they’re building and will contend next year. After 5+ years of hearing that, and then being asked to move to 3rd base in order to get the AA kid in, wouldn’t you see that as another, “build for next year?”
The guy likes Texas but he also wants to win. Can you blame him for requesting a trade? Think of a healthy Eric Chavez playing with the 2008 A’s for 5+ seasons.
On another note, Young’s list of teams for which he’d waive his no-trade clause doesn’t include Oakland. Plus, if Texas wants a third baseman, it’s not like we have one to offer. If they want pitching prospets, for whom they NEVER trade for but always trade away, I guess BB could have the conversation if it included taking Crosby. But then do the Rangers move Crosby to 3rd?
by CarneyLansfordFan on Jan 12, 2009 11:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Young
The rangers will not get a major league 3B for Young, unless it is someone that also has a negative value contract. Sadly, Chavez actually kinda fits that description, but that ain’t happening.
I would love to have Young in 2009-11 at $8-$10 million per year, but the 5 year contract hurts. The rangers will have to pay part of his salary to move him.
by RayJEdd on Jan 12, 2009 11:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sounds to me like the Rangers
want to trade Young. This bit about asking him to play 3B could just be a maneuver to get him to be more cooperative with the no-trade clause.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
by iglew on Jan 12, 2009 2:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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