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Cust Vs. Giambi, OBP KING?

In all likelihood, Matt Holliday will actually be the OBP King of the A's next year. Its certainly not a lock, but given that of our 3 sluggers, Holliday is the youngest (turns 29 in 4 days) and given that his OBP has been steadily increasing year-to-year:

.349....361...387....405....408 last season

It is somewhat likely that this will decrease in Oakland, but if so not by much. Looks like ~400 is about the peak anyway, which makes sense for his age.

Now then, lets shift our attention to the likely runner-up - Cust or Giambi?

I am not asking who is a better player, or even how well either of these guys does next season, but rather I simply want to take a heat-check on ANers and see who thinks Giambi will have a higher OBP than Cust next season or vice versa (assuming relative health)...

Star-divide

Jason Giambi just turned 38 years old, Jack Cust turns 30 in a few days...(side note: I love that all of the power in our lineup was born in January, random). Time = advantage Cust, but that doesn't necessarily mean his OBP will reign supreme in '09.

Lets look at the relevant past, Giambi's last several years of OBP:

2005: .440
2006: .413
2007: .356 (injuries 83 G)
2008: .373

As for Cust:

2007: .408
2008: .375

So, both players were able to get on base at very similar rates last season and both players also declined from "established" norms, which on first thought one could easily attribute Giambi's decline to age while Cust's is less clear.

In my limited depth of expertise, I first look to BABIP to reconcile the trends. Looking first at Giambi's BABIP we can plainly see that while his BABIP was well below average last season, it has consistently been below average (it was average in 2005) since 2002 , the year after he signed with the Yankees. Perhaps we can attribute this to Giambi getting homer happy in the Bronx and forgetting about the all-fields approach? Or perhaps HGH just isn't as good as the real thing.

When I look at Giambi's decline - specifically 2008 - I notice that he is almost the exact same hitter he has always been in the Bronx, except for one thing. While his average, HR power, and strikeout numbers have remained fairly consistent, in 2008 he drew far less walks than normal. Why? I have no idea. What does it mean? You tell me. There is still a lot of good in this data though. Last year, Giambi still had power, remained within a consistent BABIP, and still K'd at established rates. Despite walking less, he still drew 76 BBs, so Im optimistic going forward. Factors against Giambi include age, park factors, lineup protection, but there is also the Oakland hitting success factor working for him, and of course the added MOJO factor.

Turning to Cust for a second, his BABIP is more concerning. It looks to me like Cust had the exact same season in 2008 that he did in 2007 except that his BABIP regressed from well-above average to just slightly above average. Hopefully Cust's true talent is somewhere in between the two rather than just MLB average or even below-average like Giambi. Anyway, it does lead me to conclude that Cust probably won't be getting back towards a .400 OBP anytime soon.

So, what say you AN? Who will have a higher OBP next season, Cust or Giambi? And also, does anyone think that either will actually have a higher OBP than Holliday?

Personal unfounded OBP projections:
Holliday: .409
Giambi: .385
*Hopes to find Travis Buck here*
Cust: .372

 

Poll
Assuming good health, who will post a higher OBP next season? Jason Giambi or Jack (Effing) Cust
Giambi
58 votes
Cust
62 votes
a non-Holliday A's player will top them both (write-in)
8 votes

128 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 42 comments

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Comments

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I think it will depend..

On where they bat in the order

Whoever hits in front of Holliday will be pitched to more so theoretically they’ll draw less walks / put more balls in play

Both have great eyes

I expect Cust to bat 2nd, Holliday 3rd, Giambi 4th and I think Giambi will post the higher OBP

by BillMoresi on Jan 11, 2009 9:52 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

most likely giambi

he has something to prove this season, not only to the A’s but also the yankees, a message that it was a mistake from them to let him go !

I have a feeling he will do good against the yankees !

Time to compete now !

by UniqueDefiance on Jan 11, 2009 10:35 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

giambi

Custs’ obp was has been high the last few years because he had no protection in the lineup. Now people will pitch around Holliday and Giambi and go after Cust (because he strikes out so f@#%ing often).

by skalordes on Jan 11, 2009 11:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

OMG!!!11!!!!!!!!11!! TOO MANY STRIKCOUTS!!111!!!!1!!!!eleventy!!!!!11!!

"However, at Elias, I think they keep track of the amount of sunflower seeds spit in a dugout each night." - Brad Ziegler, 8/7/08

by doctorK on Jan 11, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

even I voted for...

giambi

that's gold jerry, gold!!!

by 9Custs on Jan 11, 2009 12:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Concur

Remember people: Giambi is turning 39 and Cust’s stats are already “adjusted” for the Coliseum.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jan 11, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And if the whole "protection" myth exists

Wouldn’t Giambi suffer going from the Yankees lineup to the A’s lineup, while Cust should be helped by the better offense? I don’t happen to buy into this as a reason, but I really can’t understand why so many people are voting Giambi here.

by thejd44 on Jan 11, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

REVERSE PROTECTION

Giambi is such a pressure player that he is only awesome when the team is counting on him and him alone….

Okay, no, but it is possible he will be more patient in this lineup.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 11, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty sweet

31/30 so far. I thought Id be in more of the minority.

Shame on the people that voted for someone else but didnt say who!

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 11, 2009 1:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Cust

He had a higher OBP than Giambi last year despite spending half his time in Oakland. I expect them to put up fairly similar numbers this year but I think considering Cust’s age and curve he will be slightly better.

by DeJay on Jan 11, 2009 3:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Crazy prediction.

Daric Barton with his .279 average will be sporting a .387 OBP come seasons end.

That’ll be good behind Holliday (.397) and Cust (.393) and ahead of Giambi (.376).

My gut feeling is that Giambi’s presence has the biggest effect on Daric Barton who turns in a nice .279/.387/.439 line next year. It’s crazy how a long day of drinking and football can help you see into the future ; ).

by JPShark on Jan 11, 2009 4:06 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i can dig, right there with you

go stillers

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Jan 11, 2009 5:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ya, that was a combination of optimism

and jagermeister. I really do think Barton will benefit from having Giambi acting like the big brother. Barton won’t ever hit for the power Giambi has, but as a youngster he has (or should have considering what he did in the minors) an all fields hitting approach like Giambi did before Yankee stadium changed his swing. A more realistic, still optimistic line might be something more like .260/.365/.400. Who knows though, anything could happen with this kid. Maybe he will suprise everyone with an .800+ OPS but I know I haven’t given up on him.

by JPShark on Jan 11, 2009 6:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that line is unreasonable for Barton

Though I do think the OBP of the other three will be slightly lower than JPShark said.

by thejd44 on Jan 11, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ya, I do too.

I was just havin a little fun. I think Holliday won’t be too far off from what I said, but if I had to make a real prediction this is where I would put those four at:
-Holliday .393
-Cust .384
-Giambi .373
-Barton .367

by JPShark on Jan 11, 2009 8:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

this assumes barton is with the big club this year

i’m not so sure that will happen, though i think the odds are slightly in his favor. if giambi can play anything close to an okay first base, it allows us to have a superior defensive OF (ie cust is the DH). this also lets barton spend more time at AAA – i think he’s a good hitter, but he clearly wasn’t ready last year, and maybe the extra time in AAA would do him some good. though i suspect giambi will primarily DH, rotate with barton at 1b maybe twice a week. cust will play OF/DH, and whoever has the worst spring among buck, cunningham, and sweeney, gets sent down.

by guy incognito on Jan 11, 2009 9:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Those numbers might be a bit lofty

for Cust and Giambi. Not impossible, but about as good as I think it can get.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 11, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping Cust will benefit some from a better lineup around him

and find numbers between his 07’ and 08’ seasons in 09’.

For Giambi, i’m pulling out the “nostalgic” return to green and gold argument and saying that he will just about maintain last years numbers at the coliseum with some added energy. Probably some wishful thinking in both cases, but certainly not out of question. What kind of fan would I be if I expected anything less then great seasons from all these guys?? Just being optimistic considering this has been one of the more fun offseasons in a long time!! Were gonna need some good numbers from all of the above if were going to take the division so i’m expecting no less!

by JPShark on Jan 11, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL - you go!

I think those numbers are possible, just on the “best case scenario” side.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 11, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well i'm a best cased scenario kinda guy!!

Lol. I also happen to be a hammered kinda guy so all is good right now! We’ll see what happens with all these guys, i’m just excited about actually having an offense this year. Contention or not it’s gonna be a fun season.

by JPShark on Jan 11, 2009 9:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Im right there with ya

Except that I expect Barton to OBP more like .330

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 11, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Barton OBPed .327 LAST SEASON

You don’t see more than a .003 improvement on the horizon?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 11, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If they dont let him mature in AAA, thats my outlook.

Unless maybe someone tells him to swing at that strike 3 fastball down the middle a bit more often.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 11, 2009 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

um, no

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 11, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

would that really give them the best offense in the AL?

assuming all the other stats and players are at about average projections?

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 11, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless some of them have bizarre power outages, I have a hard time seeing how not

That would give them 4 OBPs in the top 15% of baseball. There wasn’t a single team that had more than three such players last year, and that’s counting Manny as a Red Sock, so it’s really more like two and a half.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Jan 11, 2009 10:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it will be close

I’ll go with Cust based on Giambi becoming a little more aggressive as an RBI guy, and Cust just going on doing his thing because it’s “what he does.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 11, 2009 7:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Also, to add

(James + Chone 2009 OBP projections) / 2 = the same value, 386.5, for both Cust and Giambi in 2009. However, Marcel favors Cust, something like .377 for Cust and .363 for G.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 11, 2009 10:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think we would all be happy if James/Chone were right.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 11, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

im gonna go out on a limb here and say

travis buck. i think it all comes together and he leads off for us without injuring himself.

"My group runs some frogloks down the hall to finish them off and POP! RASTER! If there was a way to scream louder than caps in EQ I was doing it. Man I am straight panicking because I know I have NO CHANCE soloing and the party has run off. I'm in my hotel room; it's like 5am, and I am straight hollering, in EQ and in real life. Bottom line is the group comes back, heals me, and kills Raster! WOOT!" -Curt Schilling on his favorite memories in the video game "EverQuest"

by travdog6 on Jan 12, 2009 1:30 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Heh..

While we’re at it, I’ll just go ahead and post my offensive predictions for kicks.

Sweeney: .273/.342/.408
Suzuki: .276/.351/.389
Cust: .235/.369/.508
Barton: .270/.361/.400
Ellis: .255/.325/.393
Buck: .263/.359/.435
Holliday: .293/.385/.530
Giambi: .235/.365/.475
Chavez: .250/.350/.450
Crosby: .240/.305/.365

I know I put Crosby at an improvement, but that’s only because I don’t think he could do any worse than 2008.

"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."

by VORP is too nerdy on Jan 12, 2009 10:14 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

If this happens we will win the division.

No one prediction seems too outrageous.

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 12, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

except Crosby

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 12, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll admit

I’d put all of them in the “optimistic” category. The only two predictions I feel very comfortable with are Suzuki and Ellis. Chavez, Barton, and Buck I would consider highly optimistic.

"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."

by VORP is too nerdy on Jan 12, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont think your Giambi and Cust predictions are optimistic

Not pessimistic either, but certainly no more than middle of the road. Right in line with projections.

I dont think Buck is terribly optimistic either. Only in so far as it assumes somewhat healthy production.

Chavez is highly optimistic. If Chavez can do that for 100 games we are in business!

www.punditpolitics.com - Political IQ Tests, Pundit Blog, News and Opinion.

by ChadGod on Jan 12, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think I realized how good the middle of this lineup could be

we have some hitters who can get on base and hit the ball a long ways! How different this year might be for the A’s!

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Jan 12, 2009 10:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

We could be above average!

Whatever the heck that means.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 12, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

would we be above a verage, or on the verage?

a man has to have something to help the petite vanilla bean scones go down @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 12, 2009 5:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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