Taj's Tuesday Trade Thread: The Search for Power (part 1)
Following yesterday's article in the Contra Costa Times where Beane acknowledged that the A's were in need of power, both for the long term and even for next season, it seems like a perfect time to speculate on some solutions to this power outage.
Situation Report: The A's rank dead last in most batting categories this season: batting average (almost 20 points lower than the 2nd lowest team), are tied for 13th in OBP and are alone in dead-last in slugging percentage, a FULL 20 points lower than the 2nd lowest team. The team OPS is a woeful .682 (the team is the only AL club to NOT crack the .700 barrier). It stands to reason that the A's could use an upgrade at every position on the diamond, but that's not realistic.
Kurt Suzuki, with a solid-for-his-position .740 OPS, is likely part of the A's corps going forward and is likely to improve with experience, so he doesn't really need a replacement. The outfield, as explained on Sunday, is chock-full of all sorts of players with strengths and weaknesses. Jack Cust is the only relatively reliable power source out there, so you can pencil him in for one corner spot. Buck has shown the ability to hit for an OPS of .850 at the major league level, so I think he deserves one more shot as an everyday player at major league level, while Sweeney, Cargon and Cunningham all offer pretty high-upside as well as solid defense. At this point, the outfield rotation is packed and it would be somewhat useless to add to that logjam.
That leaves the infield and DH spots, both of which have been by far the weak links of the A's offense this season. Ellis is an up-and-down offensive player, but he likely won't be back next year (unless he accepts arbitration). Crosby is a black-hole offensively, but probably won't be going anywhere due to his salary. Barton and Hannahan, the primary corner infield guys, have hit virtually all year at a sub-.700 OPS. That's simply unacceptable at those positions. Obviously, the biggest areas where the team needs help are 3B, 1B, 2B and DH, in that level of importance.
Let's start today with third base, with 1st, 2nd and DH to follow next week.
Third Base: Hannahan's a decent defensive 3rd baseman that could maybe be an asset if he played in only 20-30 games a season. Not an everyday player. Chavez will likely never return to the hot corner for the A's and even if he did, it won't be until well into next season, since he won't be allowed to even pick up a baseball for the next 5 months. Jeff Baisley had a nice year at AAA, but is already 25 and hasn't shown impact talent at any level. It's clear the A's need a new everyday third baseman for now and the future. We've covered some trade targets at the hot corner before. Let's run through the likely targets:
Proven Commodities:
- Kevin Kouzmanoff: Padres likely to deal him, since his value is high and top prospect Chase Headley's natural position is 3rd base. Decent defensive 3rd baseman, with average power but atrocious plate discipline (20/118 BB-K). He's under club control for the next 4 seasons. Probably could be had for a package containing one of Eveland/Smith/Braden/Mazzaro and/or one of Murton/Buck.
- Adrian Beltre: Likely to be traded by Mariners as they look to get younger, rebuild the roster, cut costs and give Matt Tuisasasopo a chance at the big league level. Beltre is only under contract for next season at a robust $12 million. He brings Gold Glove Caliber defense at 3rd and a fairly consistent above-average righty-bat with good power. He stays healthy and usually plays 150+ games a season. Definite short-term, relatively low-risk acquisition that would improve both the offense and defense of the team. Mariners might be reluctant to send him to a division rival and with other suitors in pursuit (Giants, Twins) they could force the A's to overpay for him.
- Chad Tracy: With Mark Reynolds emerging as the everyday 3rd baseman for the Snakes, Tracy is most likely expendable. He's had injury problems the past couple seasons, but before that, he stayed healthy and was a solid .280+ hitter with 25+ homer pop. I have no idea what kind of defender at 3rd he is. He's signed for $4.75 million in '09 with a $7 million club option for 2010. Byrnes and Beane seem to work well together, so a deal could probably be constructed, maybe based around Street?
- Garrett Atkins/Ian Stewart: Expendable to the Rockies with the emergence of Ian Stewart and the contract of Todd Helton. Atkins is kind of a one-and-a-half trick pony: he crushes lefties and only hits at home in the light Denver air (below .660 career OPS on the road). Bottom line, he's not a very useful player for anyone besides the Rockies. He'd be an option ONLY if the price was only his salary. Ian Stewart on the other hand is an absolute stud. He's very nearly as untouchable as they get, yet, somehow I could see the Rockies at least discussing a deal that would send Vince Mazzaro (due to his groundballing tendancies) and Ziggy (ditto) to Colorado for him.
- Melvin Mora/Aubrey Huff: Inexplicably, both of these guys cleared waivers earlier this summer, even though Mora has had a strong season (.282/.342/.493) 23 homers, 97 RBIs and Huff is having a MONSTER year: .316/.373/.582, 31 homers, 102 RBIs! Both also have modest commitments for next season (Mora @ $9 million with 2010 club option and Huff at $9 million for '09 only). Mora is the much better fit at 3rd but Huff can play a little bit of 3rd, some 1st and DH. The Orioles are in full-scale rebuilding mode. Both of these guys can be had. I'd imagine the birds would ask for young pitching/shortstop in return. Would some combination of Braden + Pennington or Petit for Mora make sense?
Prospects:
- Andy Marte/Wes Hodges: The Indians are looking for bullpen help and will likely move Peralta to 3rd due to defensive concerns. Marte was once a top prospect but has bombed in the majors so far. He had a solid minor track record, is still young (24) and might be a low-risk, high-reward type acquisition. Hodges was one of the top 3rd base prospects in the minors coming into this season. He had a solid but unspectacular season as a 23-year old in Double-A this year: .290/.354/.466 with 18 homers, 29 doubles and could be ready for the majors mid-season 2009. He could be a major piece in a Street-to-Cleveland deal.
- Mat Gamel: Maybe the top 3rd base prospect in the minors this season as he tore up Double-A, got a brief promotion at AAA and then a cup of coffee with the Brewers major league team (the Cunningham treatment, if you will). He's definitely got power (20 homers, .923 OPS combined in the minors) but questions persist about his ability to stay at 3rd long term. As a premium prospect, he might necessitate a package including a major league-ready starter like Smith or Duke along with Street.
- Alex Gordon/Mark Teahen: The Royals recently announced that pretty much everyone not named Greinke would be available this off-season in trade talks. Gordon was a hotshot collegiate product that tore it up at Nebraska, got picked 2nd overall in the 2005 draft, spent one year at Double-A pounding the ball and then has been in the majors ever since. He's struggled since coming up to the majors, both at the plate and with injuries. At age 24 with tons of potential, he'd be like Marte: a low-risk, high-reward type pickup, provided the asking price isn't outrageous. Teahen, the former A's farmhand, has alternated good and bad seasons at the plate with the Royals and has also bounced around a bit on the field. Perhaps a return to the friendly Bay Area confines could awaken his bat once more?
- Allen Craig: Cal Berkeley product Craig has had several strong seasons in the Cardinals organization, concluding his latest age 23/24 Double-A season where he hit .304/.373/.494 with 22 homers and 85 RBIs. Scouts seem unconvinced that he can stay at 3rd base long term, however. Still, the Cards have the depth at 3rd (Glaus with the big club, Brett Wallace tearing up the minors) that they would probably part with Craig for a live bullpen arm - Casilla, Street?
- Neil Walker: discussed here.
- Daniel Murphy: Just randomly ran across this guy on the Mets site. He's a 2006 13th round draft pick that had a really nice 2008 season in Double-A as a 23-year old: .308/.374/.496 with 13 homers and 67 RBIs. Doesn't strike out much: 39/47 K-BB. With the Mets' bullpen woes, he could be part of a Street-to-NYC trade?
Free Agents
- Joe Crede: The guy, like Chavez, will probably always have back problems. However, he's a decent hitter and decent fielder that may come relatively cheaply on the free agent market, unless other teams get desperate. Brings righty-power.
- Rich Aurilia: Would be a very slight upgrade on Hannahan offensively but a downgrade defensively. Is contact-oriented, but without a lot punch. Would probably come cheap.
- Casey Blake/Nomar: Both Dodgers vets will be free agents this winter. Blake is having a nice walk year, but at this point I see them both re-signing with the Dodgers. If they don't, they will likely be leaning towards one last high-dollar contract and neither of them really offer all that much upside or immediate offensive punch to really warrant anything longer or larger than a 1-year, 8-9 million dollar deal.
Well...
My very preliminary analysis is that the free agent market for 3rd baseman is barren. Unless Crede takes an incentive-laden 1-year deal, I don't think Beane will make a free agent signing to address the hole at 3rd. As far as trades go, either Beltre/Mora would be nice pickups for next season only if they could be had for non-premium prospects (Braden/Pennington/Petit/H-Rod/Double-A relievers) or just salary relief. Both guys provide average-to-above average defense and solid-right-handed power without huge strikeout numbers. Either of them could be slotted in front or behind Cust/Chavez (DH/1B) and provide the A's with a halfway decent middle-of-the-order and they're relatively affordable.
As far as shooting for the hot prospects, the only guy I could see Beane whipping out the top dogs for is Ian Stewart. The guy is a total stud. But it would take a lot to grab him. I mentioned a package of Vince Mazzaro and Ziggy. As much as it would hurt to lose Ziggy, that might be an interesting win-win for both teams...
As for the lesser prospects, if any of them could be had for something not terribly valuable, then I'd be all for giving them a shot. Problem is, half of them have bombed at the major league level already and the other half might not have what it takes to stay at 3rd long-term.
Regardless, there will be plenty of ways to address the gaping hole at 3rd off-season. I'll be really pissed if something isn't done and at least someone with at least average power and average defensively ability at 3rd is not added to the roster before next Spring Training.
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Comments
Unbelievable, you just had to start at 3B
Way to steal my thunder! I’ve got a solution to the 3B mess and here you go muddying the waters. I hate you! You hear me? I hate you!
(Not really.)
It’s obvious you put some serious work into this, therefore I’m recommending you.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Me neither
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd eliminate the following anyone who's a short term solution, since 2009 isn't an
“all or nothing” year. So that means Beltre, Mora, Blake, Nomar, Crede, Aurilia
I’d also eliminate anyone who can’t actually play 3B. So that means Gamel, Atkins, Tracy, Huff and Craig.
Marte sucks, and Teahen isn’t far behind (ahead?). Stewart is probably not available for anything short of Cahill or Anderson plus.
That leaves Hodges, Kouzmanoff, Walker and Murphy. To that I’d add Wilson Betemit, Brandon Wood and Luke Hughes.
Gordon’s been horrible offensively and defensively this year, so I’m not sure whether that means he’s available or whether the Royals won’t want to sell low. Moustakas is at least a year away so I don’t see why they wouldn’t stick with Gordon at least another year since he’s arguably the most talented person on this list. Or else really overrated.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
I was thinking Betemit with Wood at SS, but now I've moved to
Wood at 3B and Asdrubal Cabrera at SS.
I still have no idea how to get Wood from the Angels though. They’d probably be best off just putting him at 3B and moving Figgins to DH or superutility.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
I was going to include Wood in this list, but since the Angels don't even trade with NL teams very often...
I can’t seem them itching to trade within the division, even though Wood has been given a raw deal by the team and doesn’t seem like a “Sciosca-like” player. Perhaps a trade like that could happen as a three-team parlay?
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
I'd trade Ziggy and Mazzaro for Stewart in a heartbeat, but I see no way the Rockies
would go for that. If I were O’Dowd I wouldn’t trade him for anything the A’s have.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
No.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 9, 2008 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
no
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
This might take a kings ransom, but the A's have a few of those to give
Mark Reynolds
25 years old, already popped 27 homers this year. Yeah, yeah, he’s the everyday player over there in AZ, but wouldn’t it be nice?
STRICKOUTS!!!1
Serously, have you seen his whiff rate? The guy makes Adam Dunn look like a slap-hitting softball player.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
And he doesn't walk or hit for enough power to justify ignoring the strikeouts
Annnd he’s in the weaker league in a huge hitters park.
I actually think Mark Reynolds kinda sucks. What’s weird is that a guy like Jack Cust, a truly very good hitter, is villified for his strike outs but Reynolds, a guy who isn’t as good, isn’t (as much, anyway). I don’t really understand why that is.
by thejd44 on Sep 10, 2008 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Apparently it's OK to only hit home runs and strike out
as long as you don’t commit the cardinal sin of walking a lot.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
If a guy is going to strike out, he needs to earn'em!
None of this taking pitches, crap!
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
by devo on Sep 10, 2008 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never thought of it that way
But weirdly it seems to be true.
Absolutely
I mean, how often do you hear people ridiculing Mike Jacobs? Mike Jacobs fucking sucks compared to Jack Cust.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Francouer is another good example as well
Only very recently has he started taking any (very light) heat from the media.
I'm reminded of Frank Thomas with the media in the 90s
when the White Sox media repeatedly accused him of “selfishly” taking walks, because it would have been better if he had swung at pitches out of the zone and hit weak ground balls and popups. This, while Thomas was on an all-all-time great run with the bat.
How many people are even aware of Mike Jacobs?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
About as many as are aware of Jack Cust?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 11, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
just a day or two ago
they were having a conversation on espn (probably baseball tonight) about mike jacobs being a legitimate NL MVP candidate this year.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Uhh, are you sure it was Mike Jacobs
and not Carlos Delgado, the guy whom the Mets traded Mike Jacobs for, they were talking about?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
yes, i'm well aware of who both jacobs and delgado are
and jacobs was mentioned as an MVP candidate.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Jack Cust has the same amount of homeruns as Mark Reynolds
Oh yeah, Mark Reynolds plays defense. At 3rd base!
He sounds like a perfect fit for the A’s
Please tell me you're not seriously comparing the two
Reynolds has the same amount of home runs in the waeaker league in one of the better hitters parks in baseball. He’s walked 40 fewer times.
And I’ve never heard glowing reviews about Reynolds’ defense.
If I had to guess, I’d think Cust is probably a win to a win and a half better than Reynolds, maybe more.
by thejd44 on Sep 10, 2008 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
YEAH BUT HE PLAYS THIRD!!!
I’m not saying he’s A-Rod, but the A’s don’t anybody at third! Carter’s not going to stick, his fielding % is in the .800s. And Reynolds hits for power which the A’s don’t do!
Cardenas is a possibility
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 11, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Why do you think he will be a better player than Jeff Baisley?
Serious question. A player has to be better than the alternative for trading for him to make sense.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Hit the crap out of AAA since coming off the DL?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Reynolds has a career .275 EqA and he's 24
Baisley’s 25 and hasn’t approached that MLE.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 11, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
In the long run, I see no reason to expect Conor Jackson to be a better player than Daric Barton
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
A couple others to throw into the conversation:
What about Jhonny Peralta himself, converted to 3B by Oakland instead of by Cleveland? I wonder what would be required to offer Cleveland.
And what about Beau Mills (Cleveland) – he just turned 22 and is considered a surer hitter than a sure defensive 3Bman (could move to 1B), but appears to be a plus right-hand hitter in the making. No sure thing, obviously.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If the Indians don't think he can play 3B having LaPorta at 1B and no one at 3B, neither do I
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 9, 2008 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
That was for Mills.
I don’t see Peralta going anywhere.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 9, 2008 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Beau Mills is a Lefty
and after LaPorta moves to 1st the future DH in CLE since Hafner seems a shell of his former self.
Oh yeah, huh
He throws righty – won’t that help our lefty-heavy lineup? No? Crap.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't care if he is Lefty
He can mash, something Oakland can’t.
But I see no reason CLE would deal him
Do we even consider Donaldson at 3B?
It has be speculated since he arrived (and the latest Minors Musings), but does he even seem like a realistic possibility there or is his value much better at catcher than at 3B?
I'd prefer Cardenas among the in-house options.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 9, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Another name to toss in the hat: Joel Guzman
Another massive power potential who hasn’t panned out. With Longoria entrenched at 3rd could come cheap especially since i believe he is out of options.
by Bud Light on Sep 9, 2008 9:16 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
In fact
he was DFA’d today so he can be had for Hanahan’s roster spot
I'd trade Hannahan for him...and throw in Emil Brown.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 9, 2008 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Already mentioned it today in the DLD
He got DFA’d in the DJ promotion.
High level ‘has-been’ prospect… def. what we should be looking for.
The Stockton Ports pitching staff is better than the Orioles.
by gdub171 on Sep 9, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Guzman was an age-gate guy
Which made his numbers much less impressive. A very big part of his being highly regarded was that he was doing what he was doing while so young – then it turned out he wasn’t so young. And he was moved off SS. Someone will give him a chance but he’s probably more or less a marginal ML-er now.
What about Brown's roster spot?
I’m a tough negotiator …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
joel guzman
this reminded me of an old minorleagueball thread:
Prospect Debate: Joel Guzman vs. Daric Barton
barton may be struggling this year, but he still cannot be had for hannahan or brown’s roster spot.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Funny Emil could actually help the Rays down the stretch
as a PH back up OF
I would not say that questions persist about Gamel's ability at third base
The questions have been answered. He can’t play— simple as that. He is only an option as a first baseman or, maybe, as a corner outfielder. I’m not sold on him as an elite hitter, and given that he’s not a 3B that means I’m not sold on him as an elite prospect either.
I think the A’s should nose around the expiring contract scene (Mora, Beltre, etc). If there’s a guy to be had for minimal prospect value in return who offers the potential of being Type A after next year, I’d be on board with acquiring him.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
In my post below I echo some of your comments on the expiring contract
I prefer Beltre because he’s a pretty good player. I don’t think Mora is worth much anymore even though he’s having a pretty decent season (after 2 crappy ones). Beltre is a lot younger, better, and only a couple million more expensive. I really wish the Mariners were in another division because I think that will prevent a trade from happening.
by thejd44 on Sep 9, 2008 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions
No to Melvin Mora
Too many children, and all of them are clones. Creepy.
"are you like some sort of argumentative robot?"
by notsellingjeans on Sep 11, 2008 5:04 AM PDT up reply actions
It will be interesting to see what happens with Type A guys in the coming years
Being that draft picks have become such a big deal. When Pudge was traded everybody was howling about how it was handing the Yankees a free Type A player – but I wonder will anybody be signing anybody who isn’t a real top tier guy (which Pudge no longer is) if it costs them a 1st or 2nd round pick? I think a lot of these guys who would be Type A’s are going to end up taking arbitration if it’s offered or getting non-tendered outright. I don’t know what it means for Beltre, as he’s still very good but undervalued as many teams still seem to be lost when it comes to measuring D.
I would love to get Ian Stewart, but the Rockies probably wouldn't give him up.
But hey, think they’d do Stewart for Rodriguez, Mazzaro and Ziggy? Please?
facepalm.jpg
I don't think the Rockies should ever trade a top position prospect for pitching prospects.
But in a neutral run environment that would be a pretty good deal for them.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 9, 2008 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
jesus guzman...
will probably be better than anyone the A’s are willing to sign or trade for.
If they’re going to trade for a lesser prospect, I’d much rather they get David Freese than the other guys you listed (big power, good defense, plate discipline fell off at AAA but strong previously.) I’d prefer him to Gamel even (since Gamel is going to end up in LF.)
Why not? Two Baisleys are better than one!
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 9, 2008 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Freese is slugging .550 in AAA
60 xbh. Baisley controls the strike zone, and that’s made him viable. Same age, different kind of player than Freese. But, if Beane is serious about wanting to add power, Freese isn’t a bad player to get (assuming the A’s won’t pony up money or prospects to get a grade A talent.)
I prefer D-Mac to most everyone listed in this thread also.
by 31Boots on Sep 9, 2008 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
i don't know who freese is
but you convinced me with power, defense, plate discipline. any 3b prospect like that who is not untouchable is who the a’s should be going after.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Freese
I’ve heard mixed things on his defense but he only committed 10 errors this season and is listed as Memphis’ 3B. Jumped from High-A to AAA which helps explain why his BB/K went from 69/99 in 503 AB to39/111 in 464 AB. Hit 306/361/550 for the Redbirds, that’s an MLE of 257/300/439. Turns 26 next April. St. Louis has Troy Glaus signed through 2009 and there are rumors Tony LaRussa is going to step down, so the Cards could be ina transition mode next year. What that means re: Freese’s availability is hard to say.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Brett Wallace looks like the 3B of the future there, though
He’ll suck on defense, but his bat will probably make up for it. So Freese is available.
Again, though, better than Baisley? Maybe, but I dunno if he’s “better enough” to justify making a move.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I don't think Wallace is going to factor in at 3B
He might end up in LF if Ankiel moves on or if Ludwick comes back to earth.
I’m not sure what St. Louis’ plan is going to be this offseason.
The monster at the end of this blog.
i don't see
brett wallace playing the OF
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
better enough to justify a move
i don’t know much about these 3b prospects but if the a’s don’t have to give up too much in return for one of them, it would be worth it even if he was about as good as baisley, like if both represented a 50% or 60% chance to be the potential 3b solution.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
I'd think it's more like 10% for either of them
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 13, 2008 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Just a couple comments
1) Joe Crede is not only never going to be healthy, he kindasorta sucks at baseball. Yeah, he hits some homers because he plays at Comiskey, but he doesn’t walk, doesn’t hit for much average, and his terribly overrated defensively (especially since the back problems). At this point, I don’t see much difference between him and Baisley.
2) I like the idea of getting Beltre for one year. He’s like Joe Crede, but better at everything. He’s also younger. And since I have zero faith in the Mariners ability to identify A’s prospects who would become superstars (or even decent major leaguers), I have a feeling a trade would appear like Seattle got a lot but Billy could fleece them into taking guys the A’s have identified as expendable. If the A’s are going for a one-year stopgap, I would totally support a Beltre trade.
by thejd44 on Sep 9, 2008 11:54 PM PDT reply actions
Billy can't fleece the Mariners
because the Mariners won’t trade with him.
Maybe that’s changed since Bavasi left, but maybe it hasn’t.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
This is what I'm afraid of
Unfortunately, I think you’re probably right.
by thejd44 on Sep 10, 2008 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
THE LAST THING THE A'S NEED
is another guy who DID or HAS SHOWN AT TIMES that he has the ability to hit the ball. That eliminates most everyone on this list, especially Tracy, Beltre (free swinger who doesn’t know how to hit with RISP, whatsoever). There is no reason to give money or trade prospects for somebody who has not shown consistency, and unfortunately this list doesn’t show really anyone who has that. Stewart is literally as untouchable as they come IMO, but you never know. He would be number one because he can clearly hit, but the Rockies are gonna get rid of Atkins, and personally the A’s should make a play for him. Yes, recently he has not hit away from Coors, (although he did have a season a few years back where he had an OPS of .930 away), but what if the guy just hits better at home? (sort of the anti-Ellis). I like the guy as a player a lot and i know it kinda goes against part of my point, but he’s stayed healthy and we know what we’re getting.
Although, it is Beltre’s contract year so if the A’s are looking at competing next year they could have him for another year like ’04.
Garrett Atkins is a frigging terrible baseball player
His offense is barely above league-average, and his defense is appallingly, almost proverbially bad at third base. Do you want a .750 OPS hitter with awful defense? That’s what he will be in Oakland. You might as well just put Wes Bankston out there; at least he’d be cheaper.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Beltre is so far and away better than Atkins it's silly to compare them
Beltre is less than a year older and better at pretty much everything except drawing walks. As much as I love walks, you’re talking about one of the 3-5 (I say top 3) best defensive 3Bs versus one of the worst. Plus, Beltre has proven he can handle American League pitching. Atkins can only sometimes handle NL pitching and he’s playing in Coors. This isn’t even close. If the A’s can get Beltre without giving up too much, they’d be pretty silly not to at least look into it.
by thejd44 on Sep 10, 2008 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention the fact that the A's reportedly inquired on Beltre earlier this summer.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
I say we sign McGwire and Giambi ...
… and have them and Barton fight it out to be the starting third baseman.
If you’re not lying, i recommend seeing a doctor. @('.')@
I understand the man crush on Ian Stewart
But Mazzaro/Ziegler isn’t going to cut it.
Colorado really wants to move Helton because of his back and his contract. If they can move Helton they’ll slip Atkins to 1B and make Stewart the 3B. If they can’t move Helton they’ll try to deal Atkins which would (again) leave 3B for Stewart.
Last and certainly least on their To Do list is to trade Stewart. I’m not saying it can’t happen, just that the cost is going to be a lot higher then the two arms mentioned.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Stewart is also, as I recall
Married to the daughter of someone in the organization. Or at least someone who used to be in the organization. Who knows how that plays in. Though one GM traded his own son once, so …
How bout we trade a minor league pitcher for Helton
with the Rockies picking up 2/3rds of his remaining salary. We DH him.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
by connie mack on Sep 10, 2008 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Depends how bad his back is, and who the minor league pitcher is.
Plus I’d imagine they’d want us to pick up more than that. He’s a quality player though, when healthy.
La Roche, Wood, and
There is still hope for Wood and LaRoche. Both young with incredible aaa power numbers. Stewart is going nowhere.
Baja been here
I think LaRoche will ultimately be fine, but
there’s no way you can characterize his recent AAA power #s as “incredible,” unless you mean it in the negative sense.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Re: Wood & Laroche
I would’ve included both of these guys in the above list if I thought there was any chance of the A’s acquiring them. Wood, even though he’s been overlooked by the Angels and isn’t really well-suited for their “win now” efforts, is still well regarded by the organization and I doubt that the Angels would ever trade someone of his talent within the division.
LaRoche just got traded to Pittsburgh as a key component in a major multi-team trade. I doubt they will trade him without at least giving him a long look (like, longer than a month or two). They also have the Pedro Alvarez issue to resolves before moving on from LaRoche entirely.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
Yes, the A's must absolutely hold on to all flameballing relief pitchers with zero command
They definitely don’t have enough of that at the major league level yet.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Even I'd trade Henry for Stewart. I'm not sure about throwing in Mazzaro and Ziggy though.
That sounds like a lot.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 10, 2008 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Dallas McPherson
Why not? 2-year Stop Gap until Cardenas (or Chris Carter… or someone else) is ready.
by Colorado Fan on Sep 10, 2008 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Or the team could actually sign someone who is good at baseball
That’s a bit unfair, since McPherson’s career was wrecked by injuries, but he sucks now. There are many better options available.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I looked up D-Mac a month or so ago
and he was having a very good AAA season, with all his injuries in the past, He might be a very cheap pickup on a minor league contract for a major league average 3rd baseman for two or three years. I think he would be a very good pickup for the A’s. Certainly worth Emil Brown, Dan Meyer or Rajai Davis’ roster spot, Plus isn’t Danny Putnam still on the 40 man roster? D-Mac is totally worth a chance.
They're called RUNS for a reason.
by connie mack on Sep 10, 2008 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Look up his MLEs
He plays in the single most pronounced hitters’ park in the entirety of organized baseball.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
So...
Let’s just disregard that MacPherson puts the barrel of the bat on baseballs. I mean seriously, saying D-Mac sucks w/o giving out a better idea is very, very weak (and not al all surprising).
by Colorado Fan on Sep 11, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
paul is not wrong
i don’t remember what the site is, but you can get MLE’s computed. mcpherson, last i looked, is hitting the equivalent of .203 with 23 homers, if he spent the full season with the a’s.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
/cries
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
I don't have any expectations of McPherson
But the A’s should try to get him in during Spring Training just to see if he can outplay Hannahan (if they don’t do anything else).
by thejd44 on Sep 14, 2008 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Make Colorado an offer they can't refuse
We have for too long relied upon our great pitching and no offense. We’re on the very bottom by a lot on almost all offensive categories. I realize that giving up someone like Mazzaro would hurt, but getting some like Stewart back would make it worth it.
Look at what happened in the trade between Volquez and Hamilton. Hasn’t that trade worked out well for both teams? I don’t see any reason why our trade wouldn’t work out close to being the same.
Stewart hits well 0-2 and with RISP. This is something the A’s desperately need more of. I almost always know that Cust will K on an 0-2 count. Stewart’s home/road splits are similar, so his numbers aren’t inflated. This guy is a stud.
Mazzaro ain't getting it done ... they'd refuse and quickly ...
an offer they can’t refuse starts but doesn’t end with Cahill or Anderson …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I'm all for "playing ball" with Colorado in regards to Stewart...
but I’m afraid devo may be right. The Rockies would surely ask for Cahill or Anderson in return for Stewart. I could see those talks stalling fairly quickly with neither side wanting to give in.
Mazzaro is a nice trade chip, in my opinion, but he may not be quite the level of “ace-potential” pitching prospect Colorado would surely be seeking. There’s nothing wrong with making a few calls and finding out if that is the case, though…
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
Is a top tier 3B prospect worth a top tier SP prospect PLUS?
Stewart was a straight B from Sickles, Cahill a B- (and likely better than that now) and Anderson a B+
Ian Stewart isn't a prospect ...
he’s a major leaguer …
Cahill/Anderson are only in AA
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
He's 23 and has played 35 games last year and has played 65 games this year.
He’s not exactly a grizzled veteran yes.
This is true, but given the jump between AAA and the majors
there’s a huge value premium for players who have proven the ability to produce at the MLB level.
I agree. They’d probably want Cahill, Baisley (to fill the hole) and another quality prospect. I’m not ready to go there yet.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Frankly I don't see any reason to trade either one of Anderson or Cahill.
I’m assuming that Colorado would resign Atkins if they dealt Stewart, too.
I’d pretty much be okay with any pitching prospect other than C&A as a centerpiece for a Stewart trade.
So would anyone ... except the Rockies ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Another factor that I found out looking him up:
Ian Stewart strikes out a huge percentage of the time. There is no way he is a .290 hitter in the bigs unless he makes huge improvements to his contact rate. Probably more like a .240 hitter.
That basically moved me into the “stay away from this guy at all costs” camp. There’s nothing worse than trying to trade for a player coming off a flukishly lucky season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
.240 hitter with power?
hell let’s just stick cust at 3b.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Or sign Russell Branyan
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I want to see the Jack Cust/Russell Branyan/Ryan Howard/Adam Dunn offense
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
a lineup of 9 jack custs?
the a’s better start working out chris carter at SS.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Brandon Wood
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 13, 2008 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
"low-risk, high-reward"
High-reward = he might be totally awesome
Low-reward = even if he’s good, he won’t be THAT good
High-risk = he might totally suck
Low-risk = even it he’s bad, he won’t be THAT bad.
You refer to both Andy Marte and Alex Gordon as “low-risk, high-reward”. I think you must have meant “high-risk, high-reward”, right?
You also refer to Adrian Beltre as “low-risk”. That one sounds correct to me.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
The "low risk" part of the Marte/Gordon sections...
referred to the fact that they both could potentially be obtained without paying a huge price. Since they have both flopped with their current teams, their value is low…Beane could buy low, and try to strike gold with either of them regaining the strokes they showed in the minor leagues. As long as the cost of obtaining them is reasonable, the experiment itself with either of them, in my opinion, could be described as “low-risk, high reward”.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
I can't believe KC would give up on Gordon
Trade him? Maybe, but I think getting him would be as tough as getting Stewart. Gordon has been a decent player this year, and what’s more is he’s shown steady improvement over last year. He’ll be just 25 next year and KC would be nuts to just sell low on him.
That said, if Beane can move a non-Cahill/Anderson pitching prospect for him that’d be great. I think Gordon is going to be very good.
by thejd44 on Sep 10, 2008 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
And I'm not sure that Marte is a good idea
He hasn’t hit for a couple of years now.
Thanks, I understand now
Perhaps that would be more clear as “low-price, high-reward”.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
I don't mind a year of Beltre
as insurance for Chavvy. He certainly seems to love hitting against the A’s so having him on the team is one less thorn in their side. To me, he seems to be the most logical pickup. Unless the A’s are totally set on Chavvy playing between 1st base and DH I can’t see them trading for any another 3rd baseman.
I agree that Ian Stewart would cost the A’s too much in pitching talent and then some, although they definitely should inquire.
In my heart of hearts, I am praying for Eric Chavez to fully recover after this last surgery because “he” is the best in the game with the glove when he is healthy. And I know he has got some life left in that bat of his cuz’ he didn’t look too shabby to me the short time he did play this season.
Of course, I already know the, “he never is healthy, dream on dude!”, comments are coming shortly but I don’t really care. Chavvy is my boy and I’m gonna try and focus on the positive.
Go A’s!!!!!
There's nothing wrong with "hoping for the best" from the players already on the roster...
but you’ll only get slammed in my trade thread if you start “planning for the future” based on that hope. The fact of the matter is, Eric Chavez will not be the opening day starter at 3rd base for the A’s in 2009. There is a slim chance he might end the season as the starting 3rd baseman, but there’s just so much uncertainty there. Since his contract only runs though 2010 anyways, it’s clear that the A’s should begin in earnest this winter looking for a either/or/both a decent third base option for next season and someone to man the position into next decade.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Sep 10, 2008 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wasn't planning on the future based on that hope
Just stating that in my hearty of hearts, I would rather have Chavvy over someone else. I thought I was being clear on that and perhaps that is what you were saying??
Anywhoo…………….Go A’s!
Yeah man, I see what you're saying.
If you said something along the lines of, “We shouldn’t look at other 3rd base options at all because Eric Chavez is for sure coming back 100-percent healthy for Spring Training,” then we’d have a disconnect.
But even you pointed out that getting Beltre as a stop-gap or insurance for Chavez for next season made some sense, so I know you’re not drinking the kool aid…
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
i don't get it
the a’s need to solve the 3b situation long term. it’s probably going to be a lot more important for 2010-2015 than for 2009, so why trade players for beltre so there’s a decent 3b for 2009 only?
there are probably 3b prospects who would be a lot cheaper than beltre (or free in the case of someone like baisley), and they could be a long term solution.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Might as well take a chance at 3rd
Since the rebuilding of the team is expected to continue in 2009, I think trying Marte or Gordon (if he’s truly available) is the best way to go, as always depending on the price of acquisition. Since the A’s will be sorting through 14 outfield candidates and 8 middle infield candidates, they might as well throw a third baseman into the mix too.
As an aside, there has been a lot of discussion recently about the roster for next year and it seems to me that the only current position player that AN seems to be 100% happy with being on it is Kurt Suzuki and the only player AN is 100% unhappy with being on it is Bobby Crosby. I’ve read cases for and against resigning Ellis and debating whom to play at 2nd if he’s not brought back, keeping Barton or trading him/starting him back in AAA, who should play 3rd, etc. And while the outfield is crowded and expected to sort itself out next year, there is no general agreement about who the best choices are to compete at the start of the season and who should start at AAA, be traded, or released. This doesn’t even begin to address which (if any) FAs should be signed and how that would affect what happens to the other guys at the same position.
I’m not sure what this really says about the team’s future prospects. We all hope that enough of these guys will emerge and not only separate themselves from the pack, but prove to be good or above average major leaguers. It also seems to me that nearly all these players have legitimate questions about their ability to not just play well but ultimately succeed at the ML level, questions that go beyond the normal uncertainty involved with young players. With Buck, it’s his ability to stay healthy. With Barton, it’s his overall performance in the majors this season. For Sweeney/Davis it’s their ability to hit enough at this level, etc.
I know these questions are nothing new for most young players, but we’re expecting a substantial subset of this group to form the core of the next great A’s team. For that we need at least a few of them to become great (or at least very good) hitters and not just a bunch of “nice players”. It just seems that if that were likely to happen, then there would be more of a consensus about who should be on the team next year, at least to start the season.
On the other hand, I imagine we’ll have a lot more to talk about over the offseason than if that general consensus existed.
Will there ever be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark?
A lot of good ideas here
But here’s one area where I think you’re a little bit off: If all those “Core” guys become just “nice players,” the A’s can still win a World Series with the great pitching they’re expected to have. An offense full of average-to-slightly-above-average will win a lot of games if the A’s maintain a top 5 pitching staff.
by thejd44 on Sep 10, 2008 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's working for the Angels
and yes, I know they have Vlad, but they also have Erick Aybar so I figure that’s a wash at best.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
That's true
The A’s could get the one impact bat they need via FA, ala the Angels and Vlad. I think the Angels (I assume you’re talking about 2002) were a bit lucky with that group, just look at what happened to them in 2003 when they brought back almost exactly the same team. The kind of team you suggest above should be enough to consistently compete for a playoff spot though. I want the A’s to have the kind of team that gets put in the discussion for “Best team in MLB” each year, but I’m greedy that way.
Will there ever be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark?
Jorge Cantu
Why not try to get him. No, he’s not great, but he aint bad either, and he’ll come cheap, and provide some pop.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
I'm pretty sure I could play a better third base than Jorge Cantu
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I might be able to ...
but I’m a pure singles hitter … no pop to speak of …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
I've got good bat control ...
I can pretty much drop it in the gap on command …
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
Not yet ... not yet ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback
for 3b
i doubt they are looking for a chavez replacement, probably someone that will till be around for a few yrs and fill in here and there. also probably wont pay alot for one, so ii doubt they sign a FA or take on a big salary. i think if teahen is non tendered they’ll consider that as an option. he can also play several other positions which helps. the rop tier 3b prospects out there, probably are not available or too expensive. i’d be okay with teahen and baisley
Lets get Blake DeWitt
The Dodgers think he’s better than LaRoche!
They're called RUNS for a reason.
i like beltre
everytime we play the m’s, it seems like beltre goes nuts. im not too high on marte, considering he can barely hit .200 in the majors. he seems like another daric barton. and why not give jesus guzman a chance? he’s absolutely torn up AA and he’s still 24-25 if im not mistaken. but i think the best option, if he’s truly available would be alex gordon. he has a lot of upside, still pretty young, and could be gotten for a relatively good value considering he hasnt become the start that kc expected him to be. if you look at the royals line-up around him, its pretty poor, so there’s still a good chance he could break out if he was put in a decent line-up. can you imagine a sweeney-gordon-cust 2-3-4? that is borderline deadly.
Gordon's D is pretty lame too
The Royals are trying to move him to another position. I think they figure Moustakas is the 3B of the future, and Gordon will move to first.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
He'll have to battle Ka'aihue!
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 11, 2008 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
How do you even pronounce that?
Cah eye way?
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
by iamawesomer on Sep 11, 2008 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe Hawaiian is pronounced like it's spelled...
so, Ka-a-i-hoo-ay.
Any Hawaiian speakers are welcome to correct this, though…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Whenever I try to say that name, I channel Al Pacino
“Ka-a-i-HOO AY”
by thejd44 on Sep 14, 2008 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
i say
instead of all this trading and signing free agents lets just not have a 3rd baseman have 4 outfielders and no 3rd basemen
Can we station one of the OF really shallow down the 3B line?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 11, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Beltre
I love Beltre, and I’d be delighted to have him on the team.
But I think us acquiring him is about as likely as us acquiring a healthy Eric Chavez.
"Dispatch knuckleheadedness with Bond-like aplomb." –74mk
give baisley a shot
and if that doesn’t work out, jesus guzman.
i don’t know anything about allen craig or daniel murphy but if they’re inexpensive enough, why not.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

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