As Easy As 1-2-3: The A's Can Shine In '09
by Nico on Sep 28, 2008 5:50 PM PDT
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PrintI don't know whom the A's will or won't in fact pursue in trades or the free agent market, but that won't stop me from using specifics to make a general point: that the A's are not actually that far from being competitive in 2009 while still "staying the course" on building a solid foundation for 2010-2014. So as the off-season officially begins, here's a sample scenario with which I'd be jiggy:
Part 1
On the free agent market, with the payroll flexibility to make a competitive offer the A's can afford to pursue Rafael Furcal, whose price tag will inevitably be lowered by his May back surgery. I would most certainly jump at the chance to offer sign Furcal to a 1-2 year deal but I also would not shy away from committing to a 4-5 year deal if the medical outlook is strong.
Furcal has already come back from his back surgery to play a few games for the Dodgers and it appears his surgery and recovery were basically successful. He will turn just 31 in October, and he fills needs that are substantial up and down the organization: a SS and a true leadoff hitter. Prior to a down year in 2007, for four seasons (2003-06) Furcal's OPS ranged from .758 to .814, while he averaged 14 HRs and 34 steals in 42 attempts. Then he was off-the-charts good in 2008 before his surgery, proving that 2007 was not the start of any decline (probably it was more a sign that he needed the surgery). If Furcal can come back anywhere near as strong as before, he's worth a lot and if the A's are not splurging for a free agent power hitter like Dunn or Burrell, they can well afford to nab Furcal as a solution to the organizational black hole that has been SS.
Part 2
The A's go after Troy Glaus - yes, a team rebuilding for 2010 on tries to deal for a guy with one year left on his contract. Why? Because Glaus can help give the A's a shot at being competitive in 2009 and there's no saying they couldn't look at a possible contract extension if both parties wanted. Glaus would be a huge addition to the A's lineup and he would be great insurance for the uncertainty about where Eric Chavez will be able to play. Potentially, you could play Chavez at 3B for 75 games and DH for another 60, while putting Glaus at 3B for 75 games and DH for another 80 - with flexibility to give or take on the exact numbers as Chavez' shoulder goes.
The A's have pieces to offer that should appeal to the Cardinals, from Huston Street to a young starting pitcher (be it Eveland, Braden, or - gasp - Mazzaro) to Bobby Crosby, who could thrive in the National League with a new organization, would be expendable if the A's signed Furcal, and who would be an upgrade for St. Louis over the status quo that is Cesar Izturis. I could see a win-win package emerging from those pieces - perhaps it's Street and Crosby that wind up packing for Missouri.
Part 3
Maybe it's overkill, but let's say the A's go one step further and "buy low" on Ryan Garko, a 27 year old 1Bman whose lousy first half in 2008 obscured the fact that for three of the last four half seasons he has been excellent. After batting .289/.359/.483 (.842 OPS) with 21 HRs in 2007, Garko rebounded from a pre-All Star Break thud (.668 OPS) to revert right back to form in the second half (.315/.385/.480, an .865 OPS). Garko also rakes left-handed pitching, slugging .503 and posting a near .900 OPS (.896) for his career.
What would it take to get Garko from the Indians, who have Matt LaPorta and Victor Martinez potentially in the 1B mix, with minor league sluggers Wes Hodges and Beau Mills on the way? Probably not all that much. The Indians' biggest current needs are pitching based, both starting and closing, meaning they should also covet Street (if he's not dealt elsewhere first) and should also be keen on the A's haul of major league ready starters. Perhaps it's a young starter, like Mazzaro, who ends up packing for Ohio.
April, 2009
So let's imagine that after inking Furcal as the one free agent signing, the A's have to part with Street, Crosby, and a promising young starter such as Mazzaro, in order to land Glaus and Garko. Your 2009 A's lineup, with Barton in AAA, Buck and Cunningham in the mix for OF playing time:
Furcal - SS
Cust - LF
Glaus - 3B/DH
Chavez - 3B/DH
Garko - 1B
Sweeney - RF
Suzuki - C
Gonzalez - CF
Ellis or Pennington - 2B
The starting pitching is still set with Duchscherer, Gallagher, Smith, Eveland, Braden, Gio Gonzalez and Outman fighting for five spots, plus Simmons, Cahill, and Anderson on the way. The bullpen is still strong with Devine, Ziegler, and Blevins at the front end, along with other options from those who don't make the rotation.
You're telling me that team couldn't compete in 2009 and still be strong going forward? The A's aren't that far away, folks - you're allowed to get excited.
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Crosby's gone?
Color me elated.
But seriously, I can allow myself to get excited at the picture you’ve painted, and not feel weird about it.
I'm here to talk about the past.
I'm sure I don't have the exact "tit for tat-ness" down on the trades
(I basically suck at that), but hopefully close enough for folks to get the idea – which is that those three could be acquired without the A’s trading guys they can’t afford to move. I figure they have Street and a younger “non Cahill-Anderson” pitcher to give and still be fine in the short and long term (and Crosby’s a salary dump, not a loss of talent, as far as I’m concerned).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
NO WAY
thats the starting lineup in april 09
chavy and cust are done and those siginings
are a long shot to say the least
Stay calm. I'm a relatively respectable citizen -- a multiple felon, perhaps, but certainly not dangerous
Oh, darn - I thought I had accurately predicted
the A’s 25 man roster 6 months before spring training. Oh well.
I agree that Cust is done – if the guy can only put up a .370 OBP, an .850 OPS, and hit 33 HRs, he should just retire.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I disagree
But only because he didn’t strickout 200 times. If he had, hasta la bye bye!
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Right-- haiku are supposed to express simple truths
(Emphasis on the “truths” part.)
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
well, he's got the "simple" part down
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
I don't understand the Furcal love
He’s nothing special defensively and has been a just-ok hitter in the NL for his career (and he’s always played in parks that were either neutral or hitters parks*). I guess he’d be a fine stopgap, but he’s still a guy you look to improve upon. Just being better than Crosby doesn’t make him worth the money he’ll command.
The A’s can do better than a .352 OBP (Furcal’s career mark) at the leadoff position anyway. I’d much rather see the Buck who is putting up a .370 OBP in that spot.
- Sidenote: Does anybody have an explanation for why Dodger Stadium went from being a big-time pitchers park to being a hitters haven over the past three seasons? I actually wasn’t going to make a park factor point in my argument until I looked and saw that Chavez-Ravine has been very kind to hitters recently.
by thejd44 on Sep 28, 2008 6:12 PM PDT reply actions
Re: His defense
I did a little more looking. Furcal has been very weird defensively as he seems to have improved as he’s aged in a pattern that is very atypical. I don’t think any improvements he’s made will last as he continues to get older, and he’ll go back to being just a slighty-above average shortstop.
by thejd44 on Sep 28, 2008 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
.271 EqA
That is Furcal’s career mark.
It’s about 20 runs above the average shortstop with the bat.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Perhaps people who underestimate Furcal offensively
don’t adequately account for his speed? It’s not that common for a player to hit 15 HRs and steal 25-40 bases, which is what Furcal has done.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's possible
Just looking at OPS will give misleading analyses of players who are big basestealers (assuming they aren’t incompetent at it, which Furcal isn’t— his career success is about 78% and he’s improved over time).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
31 year olds don't typically continue to steal lots of bases at an improved rate
Especially in Oakland.
by thejd44 on Sep 28, 2008 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the climate in Oakland is changing
in regards to base stealing. I feel confident that if the A’s have an accomplished base-stealer they will turn him loose FAR more than they have in the past.
We’ve already seen this some and this year the A’s didn’t really have a true base stealer in the everyday lineup, other than a short stretch of Rajai – who was turned loose – and a short stretch of Patterson, who never got on base.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think the A's are still unlikely to have many "true base stealers"
but almost all of the outfielders currently on the roster are going to steal 10-20 a year over a full season.
Career highs in steals in the minors:
Sweeney 8
C-Gon 15
Cunningham 22
Buck 11
Denorfia 20
Murton 20
Rajai 57
Other than Jack Cust, all of these guys are competent baserunners.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
It's not that I think Furcal is a bad player, it's that I see a 31 yo SS
coming off major back surgery as a big risk — as in a Kotsay sized risk. If you’re talking about a 1 year deal then it’s OK I guess, but not worth getting excited about. If you’re talking about longer than that, then we’ve learned nothing from the Injured Players are Undervalued era.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
"Lefty relievers are like the different Mountain Dew flavors. New ones keep appearing, and people are willing to buy, but in the end most of them suck." - Gallagher's Watermelons
by scatterbrian on Sep 29, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions
If I'm not mistaken
the A’s led the AL in stolen base percentage this year. They did in fact run alot more this year and I think it’s safe to say that the trend will only increase in the future.
I see it a different way
They led in percentage because they don’t run all over the place. They have a lot of good baserunners who can pick their spots, but none of those guys are going to swipe 50 bases.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
However, I still see the A’s leaning towards runnung a little more next year and beyond etc….as long as they have the type of players to get it done. Let’s be honest here, until the team acquires more power, they will need to bleed out runs any way they can.
Unless I'm understanding something wrong
He’s around 25 runs above replacement with the bat. Is the average shortstop really only 5 runs above replacement?
by thejd44 on Sep 28, 2008 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions
The positional adjustment for SS is 11 runs according to MGL and Tango
A .271 EqA over a full season is around 9 RAA (James Loney was 8 RAA this season with exactly a .271 EqA). Hence, 20 runs.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
So 1 point of EQA = roughly 1 run?
Because .260 is supposed to be league average. For Loney to be 11 points above average and 8 RAA seems a little strange. I guess I don’t see the use of EQA if it’s that close to 1. What also doesn’t jive then is that the SS EQA in 2008 is .255, which is only 5 points below overall average.
I’m not arguing it at this point, I just don’t really understand how this conversion is working at all.
by thejd44 on Sep 28, 2008 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
There's a bit of a paradox here because shortstops hit better than second basemen,
yet are also more valuable in the field.
The positional adjustment deals with that problem better than just comparing a player to league-average at his position, because if you just look at players at the same position you end up overcrediting second basemen and undercrediting shortstops.
Without going heavily into the math (which I’m a bit shaky on myself), EqA and RAA are both calculated from the same base stat, Equivalent Runs, which is generated from linear weights. EqA is EqR divided by outs times something (I think it’s a constant). RAA has a similar but, I imagine, more complex calculation.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I see SS at .255 EqA and 2B at .264
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasn't looking at this year's numbers, but rather speaking generally
2B were at .264 this year? Really?
Huh. What positions were under .260?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
SS .255, C .252, P .102
I think the SS thing changed when A-Rod moved and Nomar stopped playing
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
And around the same time, Jeter's OPS dropped from
5.000 to 4.998.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
From looking at it I don't see how .260 is avg any more
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
You're going to have to ask BP about that; I can't figure it out...
Maybe their league adjustments are off-center this year because offense is down across the board.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Maybe these are "adjusted for all time"?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
That would explain why the expected average number
of complete games is 53.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The same as life expectancy
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope. Doesn't look like it.
Mauer is .316 “adjusted for this year” and .317 on the EqA page. I’ll e-mail them.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
You think Mauer will answer?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If I ask nicely, why not?
It’s the same principle I use in asking for jobs and dates. Of course I’m middle-aged, unemployed and single.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
You need to DEMAND dates
Of course I’m single and subject to several restraining orders.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Goats have attorneys?
And rights?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Teeth. Very sharp teeth.
Who do you think eats the restraining orders?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Why I love AN:
I ask a serious question about what goes into EQA and RAA and (while it was answered) the thread morphs into more Nico/goat discussion. Yay!
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Middle aged, unemployed AND
single? So in other words, you’re happy?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Sure, I've nothing to complain about.
Except the A’s offense of course.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
The average SS is about 16 RAR with about 700 PA if you look at Hanley.
Hanley 689 PA, 70.1 RAR, 54.0 RAP.
The Boston Combo of Julio Lugo and Jed Lowrie are 17.3 RAR and -0.3 RAP. But Jed played a lot of 3B too.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder how much
I also wish somebody would do a study on how many extra outs occur in Oakland because of the foul territory. I bet there’s a way to roughly estimate the average foul territory size of the 29 other parks, then see how many balls were hit farther towards the seats and still caught.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't quote me on this...
But I feel like David Gassko has done a study on Square Footage of Major League ballparks.
It may not be David’s work. But I know I’ve read something along those lines. Anybody familiar with this, or have a link?
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Giambi and Dunn
I like the Furcal and Glaus suggestions. Has anyone figured out approximately how many more wins Giambi and Dunn would have been worth this year over Barton and one of the A’s outfield positions? Giambi, Dunn and Cust would give the A’s three 30+ home run hitters. While it’s hard to know cost, there is a benefit, of course, to not having to give up young pitching to grab another hitter on the market.
I'm not so sure a year older Giambi
will get that many HRs without that friendly old short porch. He’s also not everyday 1B material.
Money guys!!!
it’s all about the $$‘s with Beane and the guys you listed are above his payroll amount. Firstly, he’s been burned with the Free Agent market aka Estaban Loiaza…I believe we’re still paying that salary too.
As much as I’d like to see Glaus at 3B, it’s not going to happen. He’s not versitile enough, so if he doesn’t play 3B, you can’t put him at DH because Cust is there, where are you going to put him? The OF!?? OMG!!! And Chavez? ya, he’s outta here!!!! Tell Dave Stewart to take the $35 million dollar contract he negotiated for Chavey and smoke it because that’s about what Chavez is worth…old smoke!
Crosby is gone like a bad piece of crystal…see ya, don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya! So there’s Pennington spot, I like him a lot…he got a cannon for an arm and he’s fast, more importantly he’s level headed and dedicated to the game. Furcal??? Are you serious? i’d rather have Tattoo from Fantasy Island play SS than Furcal!!!
Ellis…something tells me he’s joining Crosby…to be used as trade bait to beef up the minor league system.
Pitchers are locked….This year hopefully someone wont mess with Braden and tell him he’s going in the pen and the start of the season and just let the boy do his thing…this kid can pitch and he definitely is the leader now in the rotation…can’t wait for that. But Mazzaro??? This guy is at least a full season if not more away from the bigs…this cat needs to learn to pitch at the higher levels…just not ready! You forget Andrew Bailey who is a up and comer but still, just a season away.
Then you have the pen…they look solid….hopefully the other teams won’t figure out the Zigler really only has 1 pitch…the sinker….maybe they did and that accounted for his late season slump, we’ll have to see. But they look solid, Zigler, Devine, Blevins, and Gray. Rumor mill is that they’re working with Gray to “tweak” his motion a bit, to get more movement on his pitches, that should make him a solid set up guy for Zigler. Hate to say it but Houston, we have a problem…he’s being shipped out along with Embree (took his salary in the shorts as well).
I caught the interview with Beane on Fox Sports…he’s really against going into the free agent market…we’ll have to wait and see!
Oh my.
Bold prediction: Ellis won’t be traded.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yup.
And if the A’s re-sign Ellis, they can’t turn around and trade him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But they could do so if he accepts arb.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think he cares for roast beef
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Even though I'm not a big Furcal fan
I absolutely would rather have him playing short than anybody from Fantasy Island.
by thejd44 on Sep 28, 2008 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions
but... but...
I coulda swore Ricardo Montalban hit .267 for Peoria in the 3-I League back in 1962…
"All managers are losers, they are the most expendable pieces of furniture on the face of the Earth."- Ted Williams
by Gaijin_Suketto on Sep 28, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
we are not still paying for Loiaza
The dodgers are on the bill for that because they took him on waivers last year.
Ellis is a free agent and thus can not be traded.
And its Z-i-e-g-l-e-r.
I could see Huston being traded to several teams and I think that Glaus could be a good target.
Who are Houston and Zigler?
"First Zito and now DJ? The Giants are like A's landfil." - a paraphrase of Since72.
Also, Todd Linden has a .231 lifetime average and a 66 career OPS+, chill Linden fans.
by Athletics fan and runner on Sep 28, 2008 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
All of whom play on Fantasy Island,
where Furcal is king and Cust never stricks out!1111
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Is that the world in which we swept the reds in 90?
Gosh, I am so bitter today. I love A’s baseball and I have to go through a whole winter without it.
We're screwed. Do what makes you human. For me it is running, being a dad and husband, and rooting for the A's.
by Athletics fan and runner on Sep 28, 2008 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
huston traded to several teams
how would that work, do they each get him for one day of the week?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
body parts
The tigers get his right leg, the mets get his torso, Cleveland gets his left leg, and so on. As long as his right arm ends up in the NL I think that we will be ok. I would be willing to send his head to any number of posters here on AN so they can admire his face.
We're screwed. Do what makes you human. For me it is running, being a dad and husband, and rooting for the A's.
by Athletics fan and runner on Sep 29, 2008 6:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I'll come back to this post later
I just wanted to point out that according to the data Cesar Izturis outperformed Crosby as a big league SS. Izturis’ EQA was 1 point lower than Crosby’s but his defense, according to Runs Saved and RZR give Izturis the edge. In fact, RZR has Izturis much higher then Crosby.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Crosby's potential, though, if a team believes that
a fresh start might elevate his performance (which I actually think is a real possibility) is still higher – meaning that he should reliably be “the same or better” than Izturis.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
one-year swings in defensive stats
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the general consensus that, in order to get an accurate picture of a defender from advanced stats, you really need to look at a multiple-year sample of whichever set of data is being analyzed? And isn’t, therefore, a one-year glance at a particular advanced defensive stat not necessarily going to be true?
I mean, I’m not opposed to the notion that Crosby’s range might be shrinking. And I’m as eager to be rid of him as anyone. I’m just not convinced that he’s definitively dropped off as much defensively as some claim.
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
It takes about three times as long for defensive stats to converge as offensive ones
so raw RZR, etc is the equivalent, over a full season, of two months’ hitting stats.
I don’t know if BBTF’s OPD is regressed to the mean or not. It seems possible given the relative “sanity” of the fielding run totals, but I just don’t know any of the methodology that’s involved in the stat.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I'm not sure I buy that
I understand why it’s said (fewer chances), but I think there is a lot less noise/luck involved in fielding a ball that can skew the results.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention defensive ability changes over a multiple year sample
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
It's an empirical fact
You can measure how much a given player’s stats yo-yo around from year to year (or for that matter, month to month or decade to decade) to get a read on how much you need to regress those stats to the mean. The mean, of course, being some combination of league average and that player’s own performance baseline. It involves some statistical calculation of variance that I’m not even remotely close to qualified to talk about how to do.
For whatever reason, and I’m not going to try to guess why, more regression is required for fielding stats than hitting stats.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Yeah, I'm not mathy enough to figure it all out
It just doesn’t make any intuitive sense to me. I would like somebody to explain it though. Salb? You’re usually great at taking the complicated and making it accessible. Any help here?
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm wondering the same thing myself.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Sounds like a Staturday topic to me
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 30, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
If you're a worse player than Cesar Izturis
You should probably stop being a player.
I can’t believe Crosby wasn’t benched in favor of younger players. It’s really inexcusable. Even if Petit/Pennington/Murphy/anybody are truly awful, they still deserve the chance to prove that.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
The excuse...
a.) He’ll provide a Type B compensation pick next year. Maybe even a Type A, depending on how crappy other AL shortstops are in ’09.
b.) If the team has any hopes of trading him this offseason, he had to play the last two months. I read somewhere reputable (MLBtraderumors?) that an anonymous AL team was scouting him the past few weeks.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
He was benched late in the year for Patterson, till he got hurt.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
If the A's can get a legit prospect back from the Cardinals, or deal them a guy who is not as good as Street,
this is a pretty solid scenario. One year of Glaus isn’t enough for two of Street. I’d want something on top of it— maybe The Federalist (John Jay) or one of their starting pitchers (Jess Todd? Probably not, but we can hope…).
I’d not bother with the Garko move— he looks like Dan Johnson 2.0 to me, and it seems like the A’s could do just as well by reacquiring the original (note that “just as well” is code for “not very well”). Also, I’m offering arbitration to Frank Thomas, figuring that Chavez is playing first if he accepts (which I think is unlikely) and isn’t clearly “done” in spring training (likely, but not certain).
It’s at least a plausibly competitive roster. It all kind of depends on how the pitching works out. If the rotation is great, the team will be great. If the rotation sucks, the team will suck.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
My prediction on the starting pitching is a lot like 2005 -
I think it will struggle some early, but that by June 1st, the “true best 5” will have emerged and gained enough experience that the rotation will just get better and better. And while I know you hate the idea, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see either Cahill or Anderson in the push for “best 5” before the All-Star Break.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
EOY rotation -- Cahill, Anderson, Gio, Gallagher, Mazzaro
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Man, this team will be very lucky
if this is the rotation for five years. I really hope it is.
Sure, it will mean that no one got hurt for five years.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't they sort of need Hodges,
seeing as what they have no competent third baseman at all right now?
Marte is godawful. I suppose they could move Peralta to third and Cabrera to short, but then they end up with Josh Barfield at second, and he looks pretty godawful too. For that matter, Cabrera wasn’t exactly lighting up the scoreboard this year either, although I think he’ll come around.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
From what I understand, Hodges at 3B is in the same boat as
Peralta the SS, which is that he plays there but shouldn’t.
The Indians have an interesting quandry in that they have considerable infield talent in players who may not be good enough defensively to stay at their current position:
Peralta (SS —> 3B?),
Hodges (3B —> 1B?),
LaPorta (1B —> LF —> DH?),
and soon 22 year old Beau Mills (3B —> 1B?),
along with Victor Martinez (C —> 1B —> C?)
Asdrubal Cabrera (2B? SS?),
and Ryan Garko (1B)
It’s hard to tell who will end up where at this point.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If I was them, then, I'd sign a glove man to play short
and hope to slug enough from the other offensive positions to make up for it. Maybe try to get someone from the (gulp) Angels. Maicer Izturis?
Getting back to the A’s, if Hodges isn’t a competent 3B the team is back in the same boat as before, except it has one more defensive slouch adding to the pileup. Well, two more, in this case, counting Garko.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
If I were the Indians, I'd move Peralta to 3B,
go for defense at SS like you said, keep Asdrubal at 2B, and figure that out of LaPorta, Hodges, and Mills, you’ll end up with a 1Bman and options for OF/DH.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So you want to trade them Crosby?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
If he played defense like he used to,
when he couldn’t hit but could field – as opposed to now, when he can’t do either – I’d say yes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sounds like they should sign Furcal
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions
They could sign Ellis
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you in that the A's are far from competing
But Furcal and Glaus would not be high on my list in the fact that, seeing as the A’s set an all-time club record for the use of the DL, a lot of the trades were made towards getting more healthy, more reliable players.
And both of those players are good, but not reliable. I also say “nay” to Garko, because I am a Barton fan, and I think this was his lump year.
I think if he could DH half the time or more,
Glaus would be a pretty good bet to stay healthy – but who knows for sure? Furcal is one of those “Do you believe he’s ok or not?” deals. If you think he is, he’ll be a relative bargain at a position of true need. If not, don’t sign him at any price.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If I'm the Cards I'd want Cardenas back in any deal involving Glaus.
Something like Gio, Cardenas and Outman. And Crosby. And Murton. No deal without Murton.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
And J.T. Snow
He was on the Giants, why, just yesterday!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
For one season?
That’s ridonkulous.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I think he's kidding - at least that's how I interpreted it based on
“No deal without Murton.” Have those words ever been spoken seriously?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well that part, but I would want something Cardenas and a good pitching prospect
and a lottery pick. Maybe Cardenas, Gio and Brown.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
By lottery pick I meant lottery ticket of course
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Your Cards GM alter ego is smoking crack
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Is Glaus really less valuable than Blanton or Harden?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I sure think one year of him
is worth less than 3 of Blanton or 2 of Harden+3 of Gaudin… on top of which, your package is WAY better than the packages the A’s got for either of those two.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Is that your counter-offer Mr. Beane?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
just bring in Carter and Doolittle next year...
stick ‘em at some position and power problem solved. Lowest payroll in MLB with decent pitching and a puncher’s chance at the playoffs. If Barton and Chavez shine in the spring, maybe no need, but I’m not sure we need anymore old injury-prone guys to be “competitive” next year. Garko is intriguing, though.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
Problem is, if you call those guys up now
they’re likely to fail now and maybe fail later (due to “rushed prospect shellshock syndrome”), whereas if you leave them alone until they’re ready they’re likely to just succeed later.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
or they could each hit 30 homeruns next year...
which would be good, considering Emil Brown was 2nd on the team with 13 HR’s this year. But, maybe you’re right. Barton looked shellshocked for most of this season.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
As did Gio Gonzalez, also called up before truly mastering his current level
(though he had just completed a short run of dominance). In particular, the scouting report on Carter is that he has legitimate potential but is a long way away from being ready. So far from being fast-tracked, the A’s need to be patient with him – which is, I suspect, why he wasn’t promoted to AA despite a 40-HR season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
which team will have a better record next year...
I was sure who would this year. I’m not so certain about next year.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
oh, I guess I should give you the choices...
A’s or Giants?
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the A's will, because I think their young talent
is better than the Giants’ young talent – specifically, I’d rather go forward looking for improvement from Buck, Sweeney, Cunningham, Gonzalez, Barton, Suzuki, etc. than Bowker, Velez, Burriss, Schierholz…I do like Fred Lewis, and Sandoval is intriguing in a “poor man’s Vlad Guerrero” kind of way, but ultimately I think Lewis might be the only good player in the bunch.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I agree with you... but, I wonder if that is only because...
we’re both A’s fans? Sandoval looks like a better hitter than anybody on our team. I thought you didn’t think much of Sweeney? ;-)
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm still unsure about Sweeney
Sandoval could be anything from Vlad-lite to a “five week wonder”.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Funny, I'm way higher on Schierholtz than Lewis
I think there’s a 70-80% chance that this was the best season of Lewis’s career, while I think Schierholtz has a solid shot at being Garrett Anderson with a few (not many) more walks. If they ever give him a chance, that is.
Sandoval is a wild card… maybe he can get away with being crazily hacktastic at the MLB level, maybe not. I’m not putting bets on it, that’s for sure.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I thought Lewis showed surprising power for a guy
who is primarily speed based. In that way he reminded of…well, Furcal.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Fred Lewis is like the anti-Swisher
He has an unexplainably high BABIP which masks what are basically mediocre hitting components.
Look at the top 10 on the BABIP leaderboard and it’s like Holliday, Berkman, Chipper, Pujols, Ludwick… and Fred Lewis. I don’t think he’s quite on their level.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
No, but I do think he's playing in the right park for him
I can see him getting a lot of doubles and triples, as well as 10-15 HRs and 30 SB, to turn an otherwise uninspiring .250-.260 average into a valuable player.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
".250 with a lot of doubles" sounds way too Crosbyesque for my taste
particularly given that, unlike Crosby, Lewis is playing an offense-first position.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
No, that's .237 with a lot of doubles -
Yes, Crosby worked hard to finish this season with an average lower than his rookie year, when he took “LROY” (Lame Rookie of the Year) while batting .239.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Every time I think Crosby can't possibly get any worse,
he surprises me.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Same here.
I just hope other GMs can’t stand to watch him either, and thus think he might actually be better than he is.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
he'll prolly be batting champ in the NL...
next year.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope that's true
because it means he’s in the NL.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
yes, but it will also mean...
that the “scrub” Billy gets for him better be half-way decent.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Does the scrub have an OPS+ over 76?
Does he play better than mediocre defense?
These are not large shoes to fill.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
yes to both...
that’s why I said “scrub.”
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 29, 2008 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd like to see what Sabean does in the offseason
They have a few guys in the last year of a deal who they should move if at all possible. Winn had a decent year and probably would have some interest around the league. Same for Molina. Dave Roberts might be tradeable if the Giants pick up a lot of the salary a la Kotsay.
The Giants aren’t close to contending, so they really should blow the whole thing up.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I would be happy if they did that
I would also be stunned, because Sabean never met a veteran he didn’t like…
The Zito, Lowry and Rowand contracts are such ostriches that the team probably doesn’t have any way to get rid of them, but if I was the Giants GM, I’d offload any vet I could and look to trade Matt Cain for a Haren-type goodie bag.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
gnu, G-N-U.
or is it emu?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Mixed up my giant birds
I meant albatrosses.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I think you had it right
When a team bungles contracts as badly as the Giants do, you have to come up with a new degrading term, even worse than albatross.
You settled on the ostrich.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
"Ostrich" = "Contract that allows a team to bury its head in the sand and pretend that it has a 'long term answer' at a position"?
Rowand is definitely an ostrich. Not sure about the other two.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Even if I wouldn't sign Rowand or Hunter to
their current deals, I’d say there are waaaay worse ones out there. They are both, at least, good players signed for non-ridiculous amounts of money. In contrast to Zito and Andruw (not good), for example, or Abreu and Helton (paid soooo much)…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I predict the Rowand deal will look like one of those "way worse ones" by the end of it
I don’t think he will age well. I think he’ll end up being a .720 OPS player in a corner with average defense at best by 2012, which is essentially replacement level.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
It would have been a better signing
if the Giants figured to be competitive in 2008-2010, but…
I didn’t think the Torii Hunter signing was as bad as most did, but that’s partly because he’s pretty good now and so are the Angels – so by the time he declines and his contract is an albatrosstrich, the Angels will have gotten plenty from him when they needed it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I agree that the Hunter contract made more sense
particularly if you assume that the Angels had already written off the Matthews Jr. disaster as a total loss. It was a major overpay but it wasn’t totally ridiculous. It did improve the Angels roster by a couple of wins.
The Rowand deal made absolutely no sense other than as PR for the casual fan.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Or the front office had deluded itself
into thinking they were “this” close to winning the NL West…Which they were, if you just move your thumb and forefinger farther apart. More…Little more…More…There you go.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Oh, ignore the comment I made below, because I don't think I understand why you said what you said
Yeah, the Rowand deal was dumb for the Giants (and, I think, a bad choice for him because that park is not going to help him out much). But I think Rowand is a better player, and a better deal, than Hunter based on just the years/money. Hunter just really isn’t all that good.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
"albatrosstrich"
I think we used to serve that at the fine dining reataurant I once worked at……….as I recall, I did not care for it much.
I still can't believe the Giants brought back Albatrosstrich Aurilia
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
Rowand had a bad second half
But that’s not a bad deal, assuming he doesn’t completely collapse. The guy is an above average player – quite a bit more valuable than Eric Byrnes – who got 3/$30. His 5/$60 is pretty close in line with that. And when you factor in Hunter’s and Jones’ deals, Rowand is a free agent-market bargain, even if he doesn’t live up to the deal.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
He posted a 96 OPS+ this year
which is average or thereabouts for a center fielder.
His career mark is higher, but the guy is on the wrong side of thirty, not particularly athletic to begin with, and has a habit of abusing himself for short-term gains that damage his team in the long run. I’m expecting a couple more years of average-ish production (with some injuries) followed by a fairly rapid slide into irrelevance. There’s a reason why the Giants were the only team to offer him five years.
Given that they were the high bidder BEFORE he had a somewhat sucky season, it’s hard to imagine anyone taking on the contract now unless the Giants eat a bunch of it (and a heaping side order of crow as well).
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
He was a great fielder by UZR, although I've not seen the 2008 numbers
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
And I would argue that Hunter will age better because he is a better athlete than Rowand.
I theorize that world-class athletes – the Barry Bondses, Torii Hunter to a lesser extent – age better in their 30s than the Mike Piazzas of the world.
IMO, average athletes fall off a cliff faster (or at a younger age) than terrific athletes do.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 30, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
By "problem solved," I assume you mean
that baseball fans have the problem of “whether to bother watching the A’s for the next five years” solved. In the negative.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
yes, exactly... that's exactly what I meant...
your keen intellect has resulted in a pefect parsing of my words.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
if certain people made preposterious statements just to get a reaction, how would you handle that PT?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
badly?
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 29, 2008 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions
you remind me of bobby kielty
have you ever considered changing your username to foolishkielty23?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
or maybe...
foolish adult who can afford multiple season tickets but welshes on his bets when he owes $500 to fellow ANers including a 16 year old kid game23?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
He still hasnt paid that bet??
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Sep 29, 2008 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
nope
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
I fully intend to have other people pay that with your tax money...
I’m sure you’re in favor of that.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 30, 2008 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions
i'm not
but that would still be less shameful than not paying them at all.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Frankly, making a bet and then reneging is just lame, IMO
If you’re not good for it, don’t make the bet.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
With sarcastic witticisms?
It’s my standard operating procedure…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
yeah but when even that person concedes that he is just looking for a reaction, why not follow one of the basic rules of internet forums: don’t feed the troll.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
wow... look at all the comments to my one comment!
isn’t that what a blog is all about?
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 30, 2008 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions
my .APC goes up...
yours goes down. Ouch.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 30, 2008 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Bring back Milton Bradley!!!!
I’m just making my Christmas/ Hanukkah wish list now~!!!
(To Beane) P.S.: Please leave Crosby out of the 2009 rebuilding plans!!!! Thanks for nothing (R.O.Y.)
Women and children can be carless, but not men!
Bradley and Hamilton
Bradley and Hamilton had much better statistics this year at home than away. It was a fairly significant split. I believe Cust had a higher OPS than Hamilton if one compared only their Away statistics. Bradley came in third in average in the American league and batted .358 at home and .290 away. Still, either Bradley or Hamilton would have been nice to have on the A’s this year.
by SA on Sep 28, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
The funny part is as
gaudy as Hamilton and Bradley’s stats where, they played the last 6 weeks of the season without their leadoff man Kinsler, their #5/#6 guy Murphy and the their #2 hitter playing with a fractured finger.
Odd fact, Texas set the MLB record for Doubles in a season,….
Its very simple, put players on base in front of Hamilton he he will knock them in. The guy led the AL in total bases (102 more than Cust).
Cust OPS
Home .896
Away .801
Hamilton OPS
Home 1.019
Away .786
Think Hamilton likes hitting in Texas? Just proves that park factor info is fairly precise. Im just curious how Cust’s OPS is lower away when McAfee suppress all power and walk numbers?
Try removing Cust's Texas numbers
And Hamilton’s Oakland numbers to get a true comparison since that park factor still exists in away stats albeit in a smaller size. That probably balances their OPS numbers.
In search of a new signature. Say something funny and you may see your comment here!
My guess is that the things about Oakland that make it a pitchers park don't affect Cust much
He doesn’t hit a ton of pop up foul balls, and most of his home runs are high fly balls that can carry far enough to get out of the park.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I humbly disagree
I have no doubt Cust would hit more home runs in many other parks. It’s not just the fence distance, it’s also the density of coastal Coliseum air.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Truthfully
I equate most of this to just irregular data as far as statistical sampling goes. There is to many non-baseball factors that would need to be figured in to try to find a long term answer.
Maybe Cust likes being out of town and is able to concentrate easier away from friends and family…
Who knows why, I just thought it was odd…Most players bat better at home, regardless of park. Just a weird little fact…
This was a real bummer season. I watched very few games and rarely read AN. I guess I’m a bit of a front-runner in my old age.
That was your big mistake - the right approach
was to watch very few games and read AN constantly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's my approach, lol
In my defense, I’m sharing a TV with two non-baseball fans.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Suzanne Somers and Joyce DeWitt?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Actually it's BLAKE DeWitt
and Adam Dunn.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Ooh, a gay "Three's Company"
How progressive! Who plays Mr. Furley – anyone on the Giants?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Roper > Furley
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions
You know what Mr. Furley and the Giants ball dudes have in common?
When you hear “Norman Fell!” it makes sense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Actually, we're metrosexual
It’s the third true outcome.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 28, 2008 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
HAHAHA!!!!!
Priceless wit that the Angels and their shit bloggers could never appreciate or comprehend!
“Nico for President!!”
P.S. Crosby, DFA, and Barton said they were in favor of the financial system bailout so the market wouldn’t hurt the economy and create an even deeper recession in the future!
Women and children can be careless, but not men!
I read that Emil Brown has "no interest in returning to the A's next year"
The word “darnsies” comes to mind.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I found that amusing as well.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
the number 1 reason that i think furcal make smore sense than any other free agent
is that his injury eliminates the risk of giving up a compensatory pick if the dodgers were to offer arbitration.
he’s obviously not a type a or b guy because of his 5 month absence, so beane isn’t risking any precious higher draft picks…
You know what?
“makes more” isn’t nearly as provocative as “make smore”…
{runs out and buys 10 lbs of marshmallows}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Eh
The A’s first round pick is protected, and they will probably get at least one comp pick this offseason. Losing a second-rounder is definitely not a reason not to sign any Type A free agent, unless the guy is just terrible. The average second-rounder ends up being something like Kirk Saarloos or Jack Hannahan.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
i understand that
but i’m saying this from the perspective of billy beane. he has made it quite clear he would have to be SOLD on a guy to even give up that one pick, as in his opinion that one pick could have huge implications. that’s why i think that beane would be more likely to consider a deal with furcal, than dunn or burrell knowing he would have to give something up AND pay big bucks…
by stranahanahan on Sep 28, 2008 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Two words:
Esteban Loaiza.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
The only plan I'm feeling is the garko plan
The Indians are stacked at first so they could get rid of him. We would get four years of garko and that would be great. I would deal street and one of our young pitchers (Smith Eveland, Outman, Braden). I don’t think Barton is our future, I’m sorry.
Also I’m not feeling the furcal or glaus plan. they’re both too old for my opinion and they both have back problems.
Another paln would be to get our third baseman of the future, something along the line of Ian stewart.
That's too much for Garko, IMO
I wasn’t thinking Street for Garko straight up even. Street’s good and under contract for two years.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sounds good
maybe just one of our young pitchers them?
I don't understand the Garko love. Although I think he's better than Allen Craig.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
He's a good hitter. Not a terrific hitter,
but he knows the strike zone, hits for doubles and some HR power, and he mashes lefties – which is important to the lefty-heavy A’s.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ya but they've already got 342 1B/DH types. We need 2B-SS-3B gosh darnit!
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
One good one would be nice, though
Personally, I think a demotion to AAA would be good for Barton. And I’m pretty confident that Garko will outproduce Barton in 2009.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ya but I've got Chavez in the Barton Replacement spot.
I guess Garko’s OK for the Barton Replacement Replacement spot but I wouldn’t trade Street to get that.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't Barton fill the Barton Replacement Replacement spot?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
like Crosby has filled the Crosby Replacement spot?
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh dear, no, we can't have that.
Next you’ll want players playing themselves at other positions. Which is just a couple of words away from “players playing with themselves in other positions.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
wait a minute... didn't you argure against a Barton demotion...
throughout the entire 2008 season?
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
"argue" even
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 28, 2008 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess I did too, but only because I thought he'd snap out of it.
Boy was I off.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2008 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I missed on Barton too - probably my biggest gaffe on AN.
I knew he’d hit around something ending with a couple of zeros, but I didn’t realize it would start with a two.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Winter Of Discontent
“I think it’s possibly myself, Crosby, Street, Ellis, Duke – we could all be gone,” Embree said. “There are a lot of variables but, I would expect that our card game (which often includes Street and Crosby) is broken up and that the chess match (Street and Andrew Brown) is over.”
Crosby is the A’s second-longest tenured position player after Ellis, and he will be a free agent after next season. One American League team has sent scouts to Oakland’s past two series to watch the shortstop, but if Ellis were to leave, the A’s would have to fill two middle infield positions, spots that are especially important with a very young pitching staff. Plus, Crosby might not bring back a ton in return after several mediocre offensive seasons and numerous injuries.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/28/SPML137Q44.DTL
Off-the-wall idea
What about Crosby for Khalil Greene, straight up?
Both guys are free agents after next year. Both had simply awful seasons this year. Both seem like they could use a change of scenery. Greene has a bit better of a track record, but was worse this season. Greene might be able to hit a few more HR in the Coliseum; Crosby’s doubles approach might play better (relatively speaking— no one hits better in Petco in absolute terms) in Petco’s spacious outfield.
Crazy, or crazy like a fox?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
i would love that
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
everybody said (including you) how much better...
Greene is than Crosby, so maybe I’ll just take your word for it.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 29, 2008 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Greene might be better than Crosby
But I think he sucks, too. Can’t we shoot a bit higher?
I only want a .304 OBP shortstop if he can field like Adam Everett.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure, you CAN shoot higher...
but if Crosby is your collateral, you’re not likely to hit anything…
Also, keep in mind that league average OBP in Petco is .311.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Greene is definitely better on the road for his career
How does he compare to Crosby defensively? Or, rather, how does he rank overall?
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I only checked out his RZR for the last few years, but he's been consistently around league average
which more or less squares with what I’ve heard in the media ether.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
So, assuming they're roughly equal
Would I rather have Greene? I guess so, just because I don’t have five years of frustration built up towards him. I still would like somebody good. Where have all the cowboys /strike> good shortstops gone?
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Note to self
Don’t try to use the strikethrough anymore.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, three of them are in the NL East
but yeah, overall the position is a trainwreck at the MLB level right now.
Apropos, another amazing feature of just how stupid the 2007 Rollins MVP award was: there were 3 better players at his position IN HIS DIVISION LAST SEASON.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Despite playing very good (I dispute his gold gloves, too) defense at a premium position
I still don’t see how he won the award over Howard, Utley, or Burrell. Even Rowand had better offensive numbers.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
but, but...
He made a prediction, Dammit! He made a prediction that he’d make the playoffs in the media!
And HE DELIVERED!!! zOMG!
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 30, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I like this idea
As a Clemson fan, I would love to see Greene with the A’s. Heck, he might even hit like he was in college if he goes back to wearing white shoes.
"That's not a Sherman tank, it's Frank Thomas!" - Monkeyball
You lost me at the "Play Chavez at 3B for 75 games" part.
I’m all for signing Furcal, but I wouldn’t want to give him more than two guaranteed years, potentially a third year option whether it’s a vesting option based on games played (ie health) or a straight team option.
However, I have to think that we (Hi PT) have got to assume that Chavez is a nonentity for 2009. Is there the potential that he comes back and actually is healthy and can play 3B? Sure, possibly. I don’t know how likely it is, and I think it’s probably not going to happen.
IMO, trading Mazzaro for Ryan Garko would be overpaying. A reasonably high ceiling starter for a(nother) 1B/DH type. Not saying that I wouldn’t want Garko on the team, because I think he’d do nicely at first after Barton converts to 3B (yup.. .where’s monkeyball with that front page post, anyway) – but I’d think that potentially a deal could be made. I wouldn’t give them Street, either, unless more than just Garko was coming back to Oakland (Street/Mazzaro/one of Eveland or Braden for Garko/LaPorta? Drool.)
Potentially:
SS Furcal
LF Buck
DH Cust
1B Garko
CF CarGo
C1 Suzuki
RF Sweeney
3B Barton
2B Pennington/Ellis
i wanted a hello too :(
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
hey mikev!
we (the royal we) appreciate it. i think
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
See, this is a correct use of "we"
assuming that by “we” you mean me, you, Nico, Waddell, and everyone else on the thread. We do, in fact, have to evaluate Chavez’s health…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Oh
Well, in that case, you need to be more flagrantly vapid in your use of the term for me to pick up on it.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
This post made me choke on pizza
I’ve always thoroughly enjoyed the word “vapid,” but seeing flagrantly in front of it just triggers this happiness inside of me. That’s a truly delightful combination of words.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I like the optimism ...it always feel better to hope than to mope.
I would like to see Furcal and Garko join the team. I still like the idea of Kouzmanoff too.
Optimism?
So I shouldn’t say how everybody will be traded, hurt, or terrible and by mid-season the 2009 A’s outfield will contain Robnett, Herrera, and Corey Brown and the ace of the staff will, somehow, be Kirk Saarloos?
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Kirk Saarloos, Dan Meyer, and Lenny D...
Back-to-back on short rest all year. Maximizes their innings and effectiveness.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
somebody should do a study
on the players sports fans want to trade away from their team, like maybe what characteristics they have in common.
mazzaro seems to come up in every trade thread this year, i presume because he’s had one really good year and people think it’s either a fluke or that he doesn’t have much upside either way.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
People perceive his perceived value to be higher than they perceive it to be.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Angels fans always had that same problem with Troy Percival
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
Crosby: He sucks and people want him gone
Mazzaro: He had one breakout year, might not be able to sustain it, but even if he does he’s still probably behind a handful of pitchers. I think people suggest him as trade bait because he’s “enough, but not too much.” Actually, it’s probably flawed thinking from our biased perspective because we’re assuming that Mazzaro can get the job done in a trade, when other GMs might say “one flukey year? Give us Cahill.”
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
It's human nature to want the nicest, shiniest item in the store
That’s part of why I don’t see the A’s trading prospects this offseason. Sure, the team might be willing to part with second or third-tier prospects in a deal for a major leaguer…but what team in the right mind is going to ask for those?
People want the nicest car on the lot. If the A’s show them Mazzaro, they’ll inevitably demand Cahill/Anderson for a deal to be done.
It might actually be easier to make a deal involving Mazzaro if they didn’t have so many other nice pieces. But Mazzaro isn’t a loaded Civic on the Honda lot, where he looks terrific; he’s a loaded Civic on the Bentley lot. Nobody goes to the Bentley lot (#1 farm system) looking for Civics.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
This is my problem with the Harden trade
The A’s went to the Yugo lot and bought used.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Josh Vitters resents being called a Yugo. Even a top of the line one.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
The Yugo lot did have a random Ferrari, but it had a bad engine
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I think we need to look at this off season with an objective view
Lets look at what we currently have on our roster and take a look at our needs. I see a lot of people are asking to add a power corner infielder, while I agree we need some power, and 1b and 3b is good place to do that, what I don’t agree is trading away pitching to get it.
Lets look at the Ryan Garko scenario, trading Street for Garko who is under contract for 4 years. So we’re going to stuff away Barton in AAA for 4 years? How does that benefit us in anyway??
We have 4 very talented and very young OF’s in Sweeney, CarGon, Buck and Cunningham. Not even mentioning Denorfia who looked very strong at the end of the year. Buck probably as the lowest trade value right now, so I don’t think we should trade him. CarGon probably has the highest trade value, but of the 4 above named OF’s he has the best power potential, so I don’t think we should trade him. I think Cunningham makes the best trade bait, he tore up the A’s minor’s this year and looked solid during his sting in Oakland. We keep Davis as our 4th outfielder.
We package Barton, Cunningham, and a lower level pitching prospect to go out and get a good power hitting 1st baseman. You guys can debate over who, I have a job, I don’t have THAT much time on my hands.
We can give Baisley a shot at 3rd with Chavez spelling him from to time. Chavez is our DH next year. We can keep Crosby at SS until Cardenas is ready for the bigs. Crosby isn’t that bad of a SS, he’s just not the big league SS we had all hoped he would be. Pennington/Patterson can fight it out over 2b at spring training, either one of those guys can produce at the plate the way Ellis did. I don’t believe Pennington is our SS for the future, he is much better suited at 2b.
If we can pull a deal like I just mentioned above we keep our biggest pitching prospects and we are not creating a huge log jam at the other positions like 1b, 3b, and OF.
I meant to add, but forgot..
I don’t agree with signing Furcal, we A’s fans have bitched for years about how Crosby can’t stay healthy, now we are all on board with signing an injury prone SS to replace him…what??? Stick with Crosby until Cardenas is ready.
Furcal is not injury prone; he had one specific injury once
and by all accounts Cardenas may not make it as a SS, though one can hope – but not count on and wait for.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
131, 79, 154, 156, 143, 154, 159, 138, 36
That’s Furcal’s games played per season .
Doesn’t exactly scream “injury prone” to me.
A woman once screamed "injury prone" to me.
But only because I asked her to.
I'm here to talk about the past.
Why would the gag you were wearing affect your hearing?
"I'm going to take a camera crew and march into Billy Beane's office and demand to know why instituting his newfangled cost-saving measures means that the run manufacturing plant had to get shut down." FJM
I prefer when they scream injury supine
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
Okay, you're talking about one specific injury. Yes it required surgery, but it's the only injury he's ever had.
It’s reasonable to believe that he’ll come back healthy.
I would say that we can trust the team doctors to fully evaluate him, but I dunno… maybe they can send him to Kaiser for a physical instead.
Saying someone can produce at the plate like Ellis did
is like saying that someone can field like Prince Fielder does.
It is the very epitome of missing the point.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
So what you are telling me is...
That you like Ellis coming off shoulder surgery and his .230 average? I think Pennington can become the same fielder that Ellis was, lets not forget that Ellis’ natural position out of college was SS, just as Pennington. Pennington is much cheaper than Ellis will be, freeing up some cap room to spend more wisely.
"Cap room"?
There is no salary cap in baseball.
As for Ellis, he could hit for a .600 OPS and he would probably still be league-average overall. He’s that good defensively. I do not believe that Pennington will become that good of a fielder because NO ONE ELSE IN BASEBALL is that good of a fielder. I don’t think Ellis is going to hit that poorly— he was quite unlucky on balls in play this season and I fully expect that to rebound— but the fact is that his defensive skills make him uniquely capable of sustaining terrible hitting and still being a decent player, and I don’t see any evidence of similar defensive chops from Pennington yet.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I have been very disappointed in Pennington's defense.
Great tools (speed and arm), but way too many mistakes.
Is there an adjustment period for fielding and throwing a major-league groundball, versus a AAA groundball? I hope so, to at least partially excuse how error-prone Pennington was.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Your saying Ellis
Is the best defensive second basemen in baseball? Um no.
"you are" = "you're"
IT’S NOT THAT COMPLICATED, PEOPLE!!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
he should of spelled it correctly
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Are you being sarcastic?
In a way, I really hope you aren’t. Because I’m looking forward to this statistical smackdown.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Here's my answer for him:
Jeter is so amazing, he was also the best second-baseman in baseball this year.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Dumb question time
Aren’t the range requirements for short and second about the same? The only thing keeping Ellis from being a very good shortstop is, presumably, his arm. As far as I know, arm strength isn’t a weakness of Jeter, so is it fair to say he’d be about as bad defensively at second as short (maybe not relative to competition, but in terms of how many plays he makes)?
I guess the range requirements might be the same, but the frequency is what makes the difference. More right-handed batters means more chances.
Anyway, Nico, I apologize for hijacking your sarcasm to ask a serious question.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably
Every time I’ve seen it suggested that Jeter move, it’s been to either third base or the outfield— I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone argue that he should be moved to second.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Yeah, I haven't actually seen that either
It was more of a hypothetical question based on Nico’s statement.
What about Michael Young? I know he’s bad defensively, and some people have said “move him back to second” or something like that. I wonder if that would actually help.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Young probably should move to third too
It’s just not clear that his bat will actually play there in the long term.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Well they're stuck with his contract and they have Kinsler so...
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Worse contract in, say, 3 years
Zito, Young, or Soriano?
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Zito...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I'm not so sure
Young has a 5-year extension that kicks in next year at $16 million per year and he’s already about a league-average player (if that, with his awful defense). He’ll also be 32 next year.
That deal looks ugly now. In 3 years, I could easily see that being the worst contract in baseball. I don’t think Zito is going to get significantly worse over that time. Young might not be one of the 30 best shortstops in baseball then.
by thejd44 on Sep 30, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but...
Zito doesn’t belong in an MLB rotation right now. There are probably at least 120 SPs in baseball better than him. (Including 7 minimum in the A’s organization).
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 30, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
From my experience, the range requirements are different.
AND I PLAYED MIDDLE INFIELD GROWING UP [/joemorgan]
About.
The difference is that at 2nd you can often play deeper because of the shorter throw to first, and therefore cover more ground. But that’s obviously a minor difference when comparing to a corner infield position.
"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL
I'd much rather the A's add via free agency than give up talent in trading their prospects.
They’re unlikely to get adequate return on deals for guys like Glaus or Garko.
Sure, ship out Crosby, Street, and Embree for what can be had, but I think it’s stupid to give up someone like Cardenas for Glaus. I don’t think the A’s are at the point where they want to be adding to the 2009 team by subtracting from the 2011 team.
Furcal and Giambi would be great. Heck, I’d be more for sending money Casey Blake’s way than trading prospects for Troy Glaus. If you’re going to go that route, then why not cement the position for the future with grover’s Zimmerman blockbuster?
The 2009 A's draft pick... getting higher every game.
Cooper on BA says Cardenas has power potential and his best position is probably 3B
Compares his swing to Adrian Gonzalez.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
BA loves Cardenas
They had him in their midseason top 25 prospects list.
Whether the BA love is a good thing or a bad thing, I don’t know…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
An infielder known for hitting ability?
I’d marry him in Vermont!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
To be fair, they said he was considered for the Top 25. Cahill and Anderson made it
but not Cardenas.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Musta misremembered
In any event, you have to assume he’s at least in their top 50 if they considered him for the top 25.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
To be fair they had Cardenas being considered for, but just missing the Top 25.
Still high praise though.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure how or why I posted this twice in slightly different versions.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Just out of curiosity,
and not specifically to Nico’s scenarios, but why should I assume that the A’s are willing to add any payroll whatsoever this offseason? And “because they used to spend more and are making a profit and Lew can barely keep his wallet in his pants” doesn’t coun’t as an answer.
I'm a street walkin cheetah with a heart full of napalm.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 29, 2008 10:19 AM PDT reply actions
Can you unearth some scenario wherein the A's add a "big bat" without adding payroll?
I don’t know that it’s NECESSARILY the case that the team is adding payroll, but it’s a pretty far cry from that to assuming that they DEFINITELY AREN’T doing it…
Why not just assume nothing either way and then make arguments as to how to field the best team in a reasonably responsible manner? As far as I can tell, that’s what people are doing here. I’ve said this before— arguments about what teams WILL do are boring as crap, because all you’re doing is taking a few quotes out of context and trying to psychoanalyze the ownership. Arguments about what they SHOULD do are vastly more interesting.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
To me, Paul's fantasyland resume is anything BUT a big hit
Or a big bat, for that matter. I couldn’t disagree with you more—arguments which predict what the team WILL do have some value to me as a fan, looking forward to what might actually happen in 2009. Arguments about what they SHOULD do, which tend to be predicated on some assumption of payroll and limits and direction, are just so much rosterbation. About as interesting to me as someone’s fantasy team roster…which is to say, hardly at all.
I'm a street walkin cheetah with a heart full of napalm.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 29, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Then start your own thread
instead of entering this one and attempting to pour cold water on everyone’s head.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Hey Mr. Thread Police
Who the fuck made you the arbiter? Sorry if the question of payroll realism inhibits your desire to play with yourself, but for anyone interested in what the 2009 roster will actually look like, it’s relevant.
I'm a street walkin cheetah with a heart full of napalm.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 29, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
that’s was my point in this thread.
but since then wolff has said they will bring in a “big bat” this offseason.
i will remain skeptical until beane says the same thing or even until it actually happens.
and i’m still not convinced signing a big free agent hitter is what the a’s “should” do this offseason…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Yeah, that's why I invoked Gant/Justice below
One man’s “big bat” is another’s scrap lumber. In the context of the A’s apparent plan, I’m expecting someone a lot closer to Doug Mientkiewicz than Mark Texiera. Maybe a-Tony Clark sort who Beane feels has more good ABs left in the tank than does the rest of the league. Such a guy could still be a big bat relative to the ‘08 A’s offense.
But ownership hasn’t given me any reason to expect a big jump in payroll, Lew’s words notwithstanding. It just doesn’t fit the bigger strategy. And it may be the Fisher et al actually are concerned about cost containment.
I'm a street walkin cheetah with a heart full of napalm.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 29, 2008 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Wolff is a little bit prone to slips of the tongue
and his “sign a big bat this offseason” quote is an example of that. Perhaps you can file it in the same category as his flippant quasi-threats to leave California, which vertigO has chronicled on his ballpark blog (which is required daily reading, if you haven’t been there yet).
“Will you sign a big bat this offseason?” Granted, it was a leading/loaded question, but it makes much more sense to say we will pursue a big bat this offseason than to agree definitively that he will sign one.
Whether he intends to sign one or not, he shouldn’t have said that in print. He’s setting a lot of his fanbase up for potential disappointment.
Wolff doesn’t study the market the way Beane, Forst, and Farhan do. I doubt he’s already analyzed the projected cost of what Giambi/Burrell/etc. cost. Hell, I doubt Wolff could name the top eight FA hitters. And that’s ok – that’s Beane’s job. Wolff’s job is to get a stadium built, and that’s what he’s ultimately focused on right now – not the minutae.
But with that quote, on paper, Wolff committed to something he didn’t need to say, and probably shouldn’t have, especially if he hasn’t already researched it, which he probably hasn’t.
The reality is, this team shouldn’t unequivocably sign a “big bat”. That’s why his answer doesn’t make sense as a blanket statement. They should sign a big bat if the price is right…but how can anyone definitely know what that is at this juncture? What if 10 teams bid up every decent player to ridiculous levels? Should the A’s sign Burrell for 100MM, or Furcal for 75? Giambi for 3 years, 40?
Everyone here has a favorite free agent, but I think we’d all agree that there’s a price point that would make you blink if you were writing the team’s checks. Wolff’s comment, amazingly, doesn’t even account for that. He just unequivocably said he’d sign a big bat.
I think it was flippant statement. I’ll be first to admit that I’ve already analyzed it too much…but I have a feeling I’m going to see it in quite a few AN offseason diaries, so it’s worth analyzing up front. I’m not so sure we should cite it when projecting the offseason blueprint.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I took it to mean that the team is committed to
addressing their lack of offense/power THIS off-season, which is significant. How they do it – by FA signing, trade, whatever – is secondary to what I hear as the emphatic intention to upgrade the offense now, not just later.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes the question "Will you bring in a big bat this offseason?"
That doesn’t exclude trades. Your overall point that he’s committing to a result rather than a process still holds, but if we don’t “bring in” a big bat this offseason I’d be really disappointed. And I’m glad he’d be disappointed too.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, we're all prone to slips of the tongue...
But seriously, so Lew isn’t really my dad?
OK, but really…
It is an interesting statement considering the source. Which is why it is being overanalyzed in the first place, I suppose. To the point that preferring to hear it from the horse’s (Beane) mouth seems to be the safe play.
I'm here to talk about the past.
Indeed, your dad slipped me the tongue once too many times
Which is to say, once.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
xbx, is this what you were looking for:
He did offer some insight that should please most A’s fans, saying the primary goal over the winter will be beefing up the offense. That’s likely to come via free agency, as he indicated earlier this month
“I think we’re in a position now financially "… where we can consider adding some guys,” he said Monday….
The A’s will target good hitters, period — regardless of position or whether they bat right- or left-handed. It isn’t their style to break the bank on a top-shelf free agent. And though the team has a surplus of prospects stockpiled through deals made in the past year, Beane reiterated he’s hesitant to trade some of those prospects to land a premier hitter.
“We may be more inclined, while we’re waiting for our farm system to mature, to look for guys here or there that could help for one or two years,” Beane said, “(so) it doesn’t take away from what we’ve tried to accomplish in the past year.”
http://www.contracostatimes.com/athletics/ci_10594755
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
ZOMG that's a lie
It’s un-possible.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Getting on CSN West will be a lot easier with a better product, eh.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
there's also this from Slusser
Beane reiterated that he would like to add a bat, probably through the free-agent market
Given all the caveats, the size of any contract for a bat Beane acquires is likely to be modest at best. If the market undervalues Giambi (which I have a feeling < cough > collusion < cough > it will), I think he’s the likeliest addition.
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
I could see a Giambi homecoming
My only question, when do the A’s stop with the band-aids and actually try to fix the problems?
The monster at the end of this blog.
So a minimum of 3 years
of watching a team with no SS or 3B?
Is it the stadium that brings in the fans or is it a quality team that brings in fans? Of course, this being Oakland maybe there’s no way to actually get people to show up.
The monster at the end of this blog.
define "no"
I think we’ll get stopgaps until then — I’d expect to see a lot more of Crosby, Petit, Pennington, Hannahan, and Baisley at 2B/SS/3B the next two years, anyway.
As I’ve said before, I’d be perfectly content with that scenario (and Barton thrown into the 3B mix) if we acquire two of Giambi/Magglio/Dunn/Manny/Burrell.
Presumably, given our OF depth, Beane is done with the Stewart/DFA high-contact/low-OPS dross iterations, but I’m guessing we get Giambi and only Giambi for ’09.
As for the last point, I’m not going to allow you to buy into (a) the false dichotomy of stadium/winning as attendance driver, or (b) the notion that attendance is a mysterious beast that can only be captured by sending a virgin into the woods with sugar cubes. The A’s front office could generate whatever level of attendance they wanted, given the resources. They simply don’t care about marginal attendance increases (though it does seem as if the combination of the US credit crunch and the further decline in attendance may be dipping into Lew’s greens fees fund, so we may see some cosmetic efforts to stanch the attendance bleed next year).
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
2 interjections
1. Another fiscal response to the crunch’s effect on Wolffish would be payroll restraint.
2. Depends what the virgin’s sugar cubes are infused with.
I'm a street walkin cheetah with a heart full of napalm.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 30, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
False false dichotomy?
Even at their peak in 03 and 04 they were drawing less than 2.3 million a year. Meanwhile, the Giants haven’t had a .500 season since 2004 but they haven’t once failed to attract at least a million more folks a season. I’ve been to the Bay more then a few times, the stadiums aren’t that far apart! If you want to go see an A’s game you can and you don’t even have to drive to get there.
Now, could the Giants marketing people be just that good? I doubt it.
BTW, Barton is not a 3B.
Furthermore, stopgaps are intended to be short term solutions. That implies a long-term solution is in the works. When we talk about 3B and SS, that isn’t the case. The A’s hope that Carter can man 3B and Cardenas can handle SS. The rest of organized baseball does not see that happening.
So even if the A’s go out and sign Giambi to help nurture the young hitters (or however Billy phrased it) it still does not address the fundamental problems dragging down the big league team. They’ve got holes in their line-up that the current crop of young’uns CAN’T fill.
The monster at the end of this blog.
no, that's a true false dichotomy
I’m not saying that neither the stadium nor on-field performance impacts attendance. Despite the fact that the A’s seem to be conducting an experiment to see what the baseline attendance is for a losing team in a crappy stadium with amateurish/nonexistent marketing, they don’t have any controls in place to establish whether the stadium or the team record is more or less important. They’re both factors — as is, yes, the presence of a still-new, beautiful, foot-traffic-and-public-transit-friendly stadium in SF.
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
I'd bet the A's have more depth in the farm system at shortstop than 25 MLB teams
Third base, not so much, I grant you.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I'm sorry
I thought we were talking about the team that started Bobby Crosby at SS for most of the 2008 season.
The monster at the end of this blog.
The Angels have plenty of SS depth, yet started Erick Aybar...
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Beane reiterated that he would like to add a bat, probably through the free-agent market, but it’s clear that if he believes the club is a year or two away from contending, he is unlikely to package some of the team’s top young players in order to get a major offensive talent. For the same reason, it’s a stretch to think the team would spend big bucks on the free-agent market.
What Beane wants to add this offseason is enough offense to provide the team’s many young pitchers with a little bit of a cushion here and there, “a little room to work,” Beane said. So what the team is seeking, he said, is “a guy who can help for a year or two years.”
That sounds like a player nearing the end of his career, along the lines of what Beane has done in past years.
just as i suspected. sorry grover, rfloh and WC, i think my money (and hat) are safe.
also:
Beane called himself “a bit of an ostrich” when it comes to Chavez
so PT is beane?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05
Yeah, I'm not too happy with Beane's comments there
Hopefully he’ll pull his head out of his ass sometime soon.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Your definition of "payroll realism"
is based off an assumption that Wolff is, morally speaking, somewhere between Jeffrey Loria and the Prince of Darkness.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Which are you saying is more moral?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll leave that to the reader
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
"reader"? The game threads have been slow,
but I think we have at least three. Let’s see: you, me, Cindi – yup.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What a team should do, and what they will do
I am thankful that, as an A’s fan, these two concepts align more often than many, many other professional sports franchises.
In some markets, those two concepts are mutually exclusive. :)
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Well said
I'm a street walkin cheetah with a heart full of napalm.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 29, 2008 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
They align with respect to player moves, not so much with respect to revenue moves.
(crosses fingers thinking of cable deal)
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
their revenue moves are always shrewd
Their marketing moves leave a lot to be desired — but their revenue is largely independent from their marketing, so BFD.
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
I think the quote that they're adding a bat is somewhat related to payroll increase
Because, like, PT said, it’s not going to be easy to add that bat without adding dollars to the payroll.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess I'm not expecting a bat that's really big
I’m expecting them to add someone at a relatively minimal cost of the Ron Gant-David Justice school from years gone by, who will add little to the total payroll (and probably little to the total W/L record too).
I'm a street walkin cheetah with a heart full of napalm.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 29, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Lew's statements have been pretty consistent
in saying that the A’s intend to move beyond the “aging slugger” and “basement bargain” mentality and go to the next level. I expect to see someone in the middle of the order that makes me go “ok!” – like Dye and Giambi were.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I certainly hope you're right
Hell, in the visceral “to be respected” lineup presence sense I was excited when we picked up Mike Sweeney. An early ‘00s Dye/Giambi type in the middle next year would far exceed my expectations. But you and I have differed on the bankable truth of Lew’s statements before.
I'm a street walkin cheetah with a heart full of napalm.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 29, 2008 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions
He was specific and direct where he didn't have to be -
that’s why I think he was revealing an internal business plan that has been established. Lew could have said, “We hope to…” or “If possible…” But the A’s know they have the trade chips and the payroll flexibility to get a power bat – all they need is to have the desire to do it now rather than later. Apparently they do.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm not toooo worried about this because of who makes the decisions
But I really hope the A’s don’t just spend money because they can. Part of what got the Orioles into trouble was blowing a bunch of cash on guys who didn’t deserve it. I’d much rather they A’s stay “cheap” than spend a bajillion dollars on Juan Rivera or something.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you foresee the Rhodes, Loaiza, Piazza, Kendall and Kotsay contracts?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Can't say that I did.
When it comes to foresight, I’m near-sighted.
I'm here to talk about the past.
That's funny ...
When it comes to foreskin, I’m near slighted.
And I say that with proper circumcisionspection.
Butter Brickle
I don't think any of those were spending for the sake of spending though
And really only the Kotsay deal became an albatross, but Beane managed to turn that into a good thing. Loaiza was alright for a year, hurt, then gone with no more obligation. Piazza’s signing led to Jack Cust, so in a roundabout way it worked. And Kendall led to Blevins.
by thejd44 on Sep 30, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
free agency
here’s the issue, the players that would help A’s even the mid tier guys would cost a good chunk of payroll and are in their 30’s…paying that much for a rebuilding team doesnt make sense especially when it will also block an mlb ready player or prospect at the same position. ideally, you are like a higher payroll team like angels, yankees, etc. keep your prospects and improve major talent through free agency. A’s have not done that in the beane era other than getting FA’s from the bargain bin or coming off some type of issues which make them available in the A’s price range. i also dont like beane’s trackrecord with contracts
Glaus? No thanks.
If we’re going to go after a 3B in a contract year with a rebuilding team, I would much rather have Beltre.
Why? Glaus is better and Beltre is in the division
Not that I wouldn’t ever trade within the division, but I’d prefer not to send my young talent to a future rival if I don’t have to.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Glaus is a better hitter, a little bit, but why better overall?
Beltre’s also younger.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Glaus isn't better; actually, Beltre is
In BBTF’s offense plus defense metric, Beltre is at +20 runs, Glaus is at +16.
Defense. Matters.
Keep in mind that Beltre would probably be cheaper, because offense is overvalued and defense is undervalued. As you just inadvertently demonstrated.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I think you can stop that now, thanks
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Glaus is at +16? Wow.
Glaus has had some bad defense seasons, so that is pretty surprising. I’d have to think that’s an outlier.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I meant Glaus is the better offensive player -
and since he’d DH half the time, defense is less important.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm not sold on this Chavez at 3B plan. Why do you think he can do that?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sold that he SHOULD play 3B if the goal
(as even Chavez stated it) is to make sure he can hit as well as possible. But I do think that going into spring training, Plan A will have him playing 3B and Plan B DH, not the other way around. Whether that’s wise or not, I don’t know – but I suspect it will be the case.
I guess it’s kind of the theory that has you put your closer in at home for a 9th inning tie game, then your set-up man in the 10th, and so on – start with best case scenarios until each is exhausted and go from there.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So Glaus is your backup 3B?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
They could split time at 3B
with the other at DH. The better Chavez feels, the more he can play 3B, but you’re guaranteed to have both bats in the lineup one way or the other.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sounds good, but I still wouldn't trade Cardenas plus two other guys
for a one year solution like that.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Neither would I.
Cardenas is in my untouchables group of “too important to the 2010-2014 team” to move, especially for a piece that may not be for those years.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Who else would St Louis want from the A's that's in your
touchables group? Also Wallace may be ready next year but I wouldn’t count on it if I were the Cards. Why trade Glaus now unless they’re getting back something really good?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Street, young starting pitching.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So Street, Mazzaro and Baisley or something like that?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Too much to give, IMO
Street or Mazzaro, maybe, and Baisley – a trade I’d do if I were the A’s and thought there was a decent chance I could extend Glaus (even as a DH) beyond 2009.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't see the Cards going for that.
I don’t see how that makes them better for 2009.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm thinking they may feel
that their pitching isn’t good enough as is to compete in ‘09 and/or they may be ready to rebuild a bit knowing they’re losing Glaus soon anyway.
In other words, Street makes them better in 2010 than Glaus does, Mazzaro better in 2010-2014 than Glaus.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wainwright, Carpenter, Lohse, Wellemeyer
are a pretty good Top 4 from their point of view. One of Pineiro, Garcia, Todd and a Duncan project as 5th starter is also fine.
Their problems are middle infield and bullpen. Street is a good start, but not enough for Glaus. I think it would take Street, a pitching prospect (Mazzaro, Rodriguez, at least Simmons) plus Baisley or maybe Patterson if they think Wallace can be up soon.
I see no way a team with Pujols and LaRussa is ever in rebuilding mode in St Louis.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure we'll see Carpenter again
but I can see where they’d feel the other three are ok – not sure I’d want to go to battle with that as my top 3 but I’d feel better about it if I had Pujols in my lineup.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ya Carpenter's a big wild card
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
To paraphrase Douglas Adams,
if Pujols has TJS, the 2009 Cardinals don’t have a whelk’s chance in a supernova. They might as well deal off their short-term players.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Sure, but I doubt he's planning to have that.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Albert Pujols Planning to Have Tommy John Surgery?
Type in “Albert Pujols Tommy John” and you will come up with like 50 more hits for that same info.
Carpenter still searching for answer: The Cardinals postponed a decision on treatment for ace Chris Carpenter’s shoulder injury on Friday, electing to seek the opinions of perhaps two more specialists before determining a course of action. Dr. George Paletta, the team physician, said Carpenter’s injury was “clearly an unusual and rare situation.”
The biggest concern is a recurrence of the injury that could again derail Carpenter’s career. “If this is a problem that recurs with some frequency, it could be a situation that is a long-term problem,” Paletta said. “We’re trying to determine whether there is a solution, and one that minimizes any risk. And that is something we don’t have the answer to yet.”
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
That Pujols TJ thing's been a discussed
since he hurt his elbow in 2003. It’s not part of the plan till it’s absolutely necessary.
Carpenter has this nerve problem in his neck which may amount to nothing or may derail his career. He’s sort of like Chavez in my mind.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
So, the fact that Pujols went on local radio
and said “Gee, guys, I think I’m going to have surgery this offseason” does not change the situation as it’s existed since 2003?
As for Carpenter, he’s pitched 19 innings in the last 2 seasons. That kind of speaks for itself.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
This is why I like Beltre
I don’t see any reason to think that Chavez will ever come back and be a productive player. He hasn’t had a really good offensive year since 2004. His defense has steadily declined.
Beltre is a total solution at 3B. He his for power and plays terrific defense. There’s no need to rotate him through the DH position, which really should belong to Cust. Additionally, Barton hasn’t shown that he really belongs that the ML level. While his glove has been solid, his hitting was just terrible.
If we’re picking up a high dollar contract at all, that means we’re trying to make some noise in the division. If that’s the case, we acquire Beltre, keep Ellis, and move Chavez to 1B. Cust is a full time DH, leaving an OF of Buck, Sweeney, and one of the Denorfia/Cunningham/Gonzalez group. That should put us near the top of the league in defense, and elevate our offense to somewhere near league average. With average pitching, that’s a real team.
If we’re not making a run at anything, it doesn’t make sense to shed prospects for either of these guys.
To clarify, isn't Glaus +16 when combining Offense and Defense?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
However, he’s actually well above average defensively in the metric. Loosely speaking, he’s +5 defense and +11 offense, while Beltre is +14 defense and +6 offense.
I’m having a hard time conceptualizing exactly what the alternative scenario is here, but anything that involves the possibility of having to play Hannahan at third for a prolonged period when you don’t have to (if Chavez is hurt and Glaus is DHing to avoid GETTING hurt) is bad. Bottom line is, Beltre is better, probably cheaper, and healthier than Glaus.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I'd think either Beltre or Glaus would cost three B-ish prospects
Something like Mazzaro, Rodriguez and Italiano for Beltre. St Louis would probably be more interested in position players since Duncan can turn any pitcher into a 13 game winner.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Cool - send them Eveland, Braden, and Smith,
in exchange for Glaus and Duncan!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They'd probably trade Chris Duncan for Eveland, but that's probably
not what you were thinking.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe we can get Ris Uncan for Cleveland?
Throw in Quagmire to get the deal done. Or, as the case may be, to et the eel un.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Johan frickin' Santana cost like 3 Bs and a B-
for one year.
Troy Glaus is not close to Johan Santana in terms of value.
Tim Hudson cost the Braves a B+ and two C+s.
Brad Lidge cost the Phillies two B- and a veteran reliever.
Bottom line, I think you’re drastically overrating the market value of one year of a good-not-great player.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Can you provide a better guess for what it would take then?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Scott Rolen
Ok, seriously… here’s my guess… whether it’s better or not is up to the reader(s— in deference to Nico/Cindi).
I figure it’s probably on the order of a B and a couple of C+. Less than Hudson returned, in other words. Mazzaro is the best candidate as the B, because he’s exactly the kind of guy LaRussa/Duncan love (Duncan favors groundballing guys who pitch to contact). For the C+, probably something like Pennington and Sulentic.
Actually, you know, thinking about that, I’d still rather just keep those three and skip Glaus.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Cards holes are:
2B – Cardenas?
SS – Nobody on the A’s
3B – stopgap between Glaus and Wallace
RP – Street?
Their starting pitching is in OK shape with Wainwright, Carpenter, Lohse, Wellemeyer and Pineiro/Garcia/Todd/next Duncan project
Cardenas plus Street is too much, so maybe it would have to be Cardenas, Rodriguez/Leon, Casilla and Baisley?
I don’t see them as being all that motivated to move Glaus. They’re not going to punt any year where they have Pujols and LaRussa. Seattle’s probably a lot more interested in trading Beltre.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh
Carpenter’s arm is f***ed. His career is probably over at this point. Pujols might have TJS and miss next season.
I don’t know if they will punt next year but it’s certainly reasonable to think that they might. So they may be motivated to move Glaus for whatever they can get— which won’t be Cardenas, I can assure you.
I would be out-and-out stunned if the A’s traded him, because he is the only guy in the upper minors who projects to be a plus hitter at a non-1B infield position.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Maybe Mazzaro and Baisley?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm not predicting nor advocating a Cardenas trade either
I’m also not seeing a great fit with St Louis for Glaus. They need middle IF. So do the A’s. If they really want to use Glaus to acquire a middle IF, then I’d look at the Angels or Brewers or Dodgers or somebody else who has them to spare.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions
forget angels
i just cant see an inter division trade betweem them
not sure what dodgers have planned for hu, dewitt, de jesus, etc
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 30, 2008 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I meant Cards and Angels
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I also think the Mariners would be more likely to move Beltre
Although I’m not sure they’d move him to the A’s.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
If their new GM is smart, he realizes that trading within the division is an irrelevant objection for 2009
given how much brush-clearing needs to be done on that roster before the team is competitive again.
Then again, if the new GM is smart, why the hell did he take that job to begin with?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
The main problem with the job is meddling by Lincoln and Armstrong.
They need a GM with enough gravitas to stand up to those guys. The revenue stream, the fanbase, the stadium and everything else are outstanding.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
You get your choice of GM job, Seattle or San Francisco
Which do you take?
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep in mind, in Seattle, your most popular/marketable player is so hated by his teammates
That at least one of them almost inflicted physical harm upon him earlier this year. I need to find that story and link it. Apparently the entire Mariners roster wants to give Ichiro a severe beatdown.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions
They're both very good jobs.
Better owners than Pittsburgh or Kansas City. No Steinbrenner committees. Decent budget. Supportive but not hostile fans. And if Ichiro needs a beatdown he should get one. Let the kids fight it out.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Good jobs on one hand
But the organizations are big messes at this point, and the owners seem in perpetual “win-now” modes without any real hope of doing so. Pittsburgh and KC might not win, but there isn’t the pressure to do so, either.
The Seattle job might not be so bad if you can convince teams that Washburn and Batista are worth acquiring for one season.
Also, I actually think the Zito contract is better than the Silva deal, despite being for more money and more years. I think Zito can be a league-average pitcher. Silva just really, really sucks.
by thejd44 on Sep 30, 2008 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Seattle isn't really in win-now mode. They're in "give the fans a good time at the park" mode.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
+1
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 30, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
San Francisco, hands down.
The Bay Area rules, Seattle sucks.
Plus, I really don’t think it would be that hard to turn around SF — especially since the NL West absolutely sucks.
I don't see a big difference between SF and Seattle as cities to live in.
I’ve lived in both. I’m happy in St Louis.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
stl is one of the worst crime cities in the nation
give me seattle…but bay area #1, then maybe SD or Hawaii
ive spent some time in vegas, it isnt bad just cant stand the weather..although anything more than a week it gets boring. veey afforable housing compared to bay area but if you’re 20 something, love to party, then its a great place. there’s a damn strip mall every block it seems
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 30, 2008 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
STL gave us Nelly
I am grateful to them for that.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 30, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Also WC Handy and Chuck Berry
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure, although I'm unfamiliar with their respective oevres.
They sound intriguing though.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
As somebody who has grown up dealing with blizzards all winter
I was thrilled to deal with rain when I lived in the Seattle area. I believe in the two years I was there, I saw snow once. Maybe twice. I loved it.
by thejd44 on Sep 30, 2008 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Snow >>>>>>>>> rain
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I was going to stay away from this thread but I love this question
I take the SF job.
My parents live too close to Seattle.
The monster at the end of this blog.
This all sounds great but....
Lew Real Estate guy Wolf will have them get rid of anyone good and be shtty again next year so he can save a few $$$ while he trys to find them a new home
ChrisB
AN: Please take a guess as to what you think Giambi will sign for
He has stated that he wants a multi-year contract. Assume the Yanks buy out his 22MM option for 5MM.
Two years, 20 million?
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Sep 29, 2008 6:01 PM PDT reply actions
Detroit not picking up Renteria Option
Do they have a replacement in their system or can we palm off Street and Crosby to them and kill two birds with one package?
And no, I don’t want Renteria.
Meet Jack Hannahan, He has a broken clock and like all broken clocks, it's right twice a day
They have Santiago for now, and Worth and Iorg for later.
Santiago had a OK year defensively by ZR, so I’d think they’d focus on upgrading their pitching first. Of course they could try and get a top of the line defender at SS to help their staff. Hu should be very available.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Sounds like they could use Street, Crosby, and a good young starter
Hmm…And they’re probably pretty sick of Granderson, Polanco, and Cabrera, right?
{drinks a little more}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I was overjoyed to see Slusser's column on an AL team scouting Crosby.
I’d think Polanco would be available for a young middle IF — but someone better than Pennington. It wouldn’t entirely shock me to see the Tigers trade Granderson and Cabrera at some point in the next couple of years. They could rebuild their system overnight. I don’t think they’d do it right now, but another year like this one….
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd be tempted to make guys like Smith and Mazzaro available
for Polanco. Though I’m still hopeful to see Ellis back, maybe on a win-win “one year deal”.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would go for that
I think Smith is very expendable and Polanco puts the ball in play and hardly strikes out.
Smith nibbles too much for my liking and reminds me of Barry Zito in that department and the lack of a fastball department as well.
May the Angels have only bad luck in the playoffs and anything bad goes as long as they lose, short of DEATH that is.
I'd rather re-sign Ellis than trade a starter for Polanco. It sounds cheaper.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
It is cheaper, once you factor in the value of the starter
though in truth, Polanco does have an absurdly club-friendly contract.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Yes but I'm hoping they can sign Ellis for 2-3 years to Placido's one.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 29, 2008 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Somehow I thought Polanco's contract extended past 2009
There’s clearly no reason to make a move for him given that his deal is about to expire. Might as well hold your horses and sign him next season. Which is kind of how I feel about a lot of these guys, actually (Beltre certainly comes to mind).
I’m mostly only interested in expiring contracts if the player can be acquired for very little in talent terms because he has a salary that a rebuilding team wants to dump.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Can I interest you in a slightly used Gary Sheffield?
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm assuming that "used" means "the past tense of using"
or maybe “used up.”
The player should at least actually improve the A’s roster…
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
He would be an improvement over Frank Thomas
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I think a healthy Thomas is significantly better than Sheffield
It’s just a matter of keeping Thomas healthy.
by thejd44 on Sep 30, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
5th in OPS+ for a pure DH is atrocious
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
No, I mean
that if your DH is 5th on your team in OPS+, he’d better be some dirt-cheap filler, because he should be top 3, at least, if you’re paying him any significant money.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I wish Smith reminded me of Zito
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
He reminds me more of Curt Young, which isn't terrible.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions
use pitching for a 3b
than another 2b…i wouldnt be against ellis on a 1 yr deal.
laroche is really struggling in pitt..i’d offer up pitching depth for him
or even neil walker who they also have
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 30, 2008 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Again, shouldn't we be limiting our inquiries to players who don't suck?
There’s plenty of suck available in the discount aisle, if need be.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
What do you mean by "we"?
(Could not resist)
Well, yeah I could.
mikev made me do it. And he was wearing a mask with a zipper.
I'm here to talk about the past.
I'd take LaRoche. Van Burkleo can turn him around!
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I actually meant Walker; there's no way LaRoche is moved this offseason
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
I'm saddened that a team was scouting Crosby
If they actually watched him play outside of Toronto, they have to know he sucks. I’m sure any interest they had is gone.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Street = worth significantly more than you think
Crosby has no real value, so “pawning him off” on a team is all you can do. Street is a Top 10-15 closer in baseball when healthy. And he’s young and cheap. He has real value.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I am sure with the many bullpen collapses by teams like the Mets (for example)
That Street will be in demand.
We can do without him with Devine and Ziggy and we sure as hell don’t need Crosby but then no other team in their right mind does either.
I am sure Billy will have plenty of interest in Street being that he did pitch much better down the stretch.
May the Angels have only bad luck in the playoffs and anything bad goes as long as they lose, short of DEATH that is.
You're right, the A's don't need Street
But there is a prevailing attitude around here that he doesn’t have a lot of value, and I don’t believe that’s true. It just so happens that the A’s would be dealing him from a position of strength since they have other viable options.
There really should be a nice bidding war for Street’s services. Detroit, the Mets, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay (Percival isn’t reliable), and Cleveland could all use him. I’m sure there are some others out there, too.
by thejd44 on Sep 29, 2008 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Beane interview
forget adding a chunk of payroll or top tier bats…scrap heap FA’s and bargain bin here we come
so much for uncle lew saying in his AN interview weeks ago about improving the offense. basically A’s will operate like they usually do, but maybe avoid the reclamation, injury types.
and yeah forget the dreams of a fural,burrell, manny, dunn, rollins, etc
i definitely could see trading mid tier prospects for something
my guess is they target a giambi, juan rivera, maybe blake/blalock on short term deals..not sure who else. maybe millar? SS renteria/cabrera? maybe jay payton again?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…/SPJ21385LQ.DTL
That’s a statement to clip and save when considering the A’s possibilities this offseason. Beane reiterated that he would like to add a bat, probably through the free-agent market, but it’s clear that if he believes the club is a year or two away from contending, he is unlikely to package some of the team’s top young players in order to get a major offensive talent. For the same reason, it’s a stretch to think the team would spend big bucks on the free-agent market.
What Beane wants to add this offseason is enough offense to provide the team’s many young pitchers with a little bit of a cushion here and there, “a little room to work,” Beane said. So what the team is seeking, he said, is “a guy who can help for a year or two years.”
That sounds like a player nearing the end of his career, along the lines of what Beane has done in past years. Health is likely to be a major consideration, too: Oakland has used the disabled list 47 times the past two seasons, so an extensive injury history won’t appeal much to the A’s.
Dude
Check your links. They never work.
Just type “Link”, highlight it, and paste in the URL. That way it will actually lead the reader to a webpage.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
if beane likes the veteran influence
he seems more than willing to being back both embree/ellis on reasonable deals. to help and mentor the younger players. unfortunately there goes there 2 type B picks also
interesting quote on ellis
i wonder if beane did the same thing after dye’s surgery and injury…was that beane’s call, or just trying to appease the fanbase after losing giambi at the time..ellis could also opt to take a deal closer to home in AZ, haren might do some offseason recruiting
Ellis always has been a Beane favorite; against the advice of other members of the front office, Beane gave Ellis a long-term deal after his serious shoulder injury in 2004, and Beane then picked up Ellis’ 2008 option before the 2007 season had ended. Ellis said he has spoken more to Beane than anyone else in the organization since his surgery.
Then Beane stopped, laughed and said, “I’d like to have Mark back. … The idea is to find something that makes sense for both sides.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/29/SPJ21388RS.DTL
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 30, 2008 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions
It's really easy to make a link work now
Just highlight the text you want linked and then click on the little chain icon above.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 30, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
One option on Embree would be to exercise the option and then trade him for more than a
supplemental pick. I really hope they don’t exercise the option and keep him.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
huh?
Furcal and Glaus? Because we need more guys who can’t stay on the field.
here's an under the radar guy
SS Ben Zobrist…i’m not sure if he has a spot long term in TB. has played multiple positions. if TB still likes murton could some deal be worked out? maybe for one of the A’s many relievers?
if A’s want to go the reclamation project route, the always injured Rocco Baldelli is a free agent
I like this idea....if the Rays like Murton for whatever reason.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
The basic problem with Ben Zobrist is that he's bad at baseball
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
So Murton for Zobrist is a reasonable trade
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 30, 2008 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure, whatever
It will marginally help both teams for about 5-10 games a season. Might be worth a couple of runs.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Nico, who is Shine?
I’d much prefer to see the A’s can Crosby in ’09.
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
I'd like to see Crosby do the can-can and then get canned
And preferably caned.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
wait for interleague
Maybe he’ll get Cained.
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
Did the A's really just put Crosby in at SS for 5 years? Double wow.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Crosby isn't great defensively
He’s really not even close.
And if putting Cust in LF allows the team to get a hitter as good as Cust at DH, that would be a really good thing. I’d like to have at least two good hitters in the lineup instead of one.
"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ
by notsellingjeans on Oct 1, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't Morgan Ensberg set to be a free agent?
I think for a team in the A’s position giving a guy like Ensberg a shot could be a good move rather than dealing for Glaus. Ensberg is capable of posting a decent obp and would clearly be an offensive improvement over hannahan, pennington, or any other internal options the A’s could possibly play at third in 2009. Yea, Ensberg has sucked since 07, but I think that may be more due to the combination of receiving a small, inconsistent number of at bats and plain bad luck. In 07 he put up a line of .230/.320/.404 in 324 plate appearances with a BABIP of .260 despite a 20% LD rate, with fairly similar groundball and fly ball rates to 06 and 05 when he performed significantly better. He’ll be 33 or 34 next year, so I don’t expect him to post a .950 ops or something crazy like 05, but I think that if he is given 350-400 plate appearances he could still post something like .260/.350/.460, which would be pretty productive for an Oakland third baseman given the past few years. I believe he has some decent numbers against lefties, so at worst he could be another platoon bat. Obviously he would be able to be signed cheaply with very little commitment, considering he was released earlier this year by the yankees and then signed a minor league contract with the Indians. I’m not sure how well his glove plays at 3rd anymore, but I would still rather the A’s take chances on possible stopgap options like Ensberg until Carter/Doolittle/Cardenas/whoever is ready than trade any sort of value for a rental like Glaus. Anyhow, he’s my candidate for the A’s annual reclamation project.
Morgan Ensberg's line this year:
.189/.320/.344.
In AAA.
(He also played a few games in the majors and was even worse: .203/.263/.243.)
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
No doubt,
Ensberg played poorly this year. But those lines are from 74 major league (he got most of these sporadically when A-rod was injured) and 159 minor league at bats, which is a relatively small sample size. Look at the numbers that Jorge Cantu put up last year when he received inconsistent AB’s between the majors and minors compared to this year when he was given an opportunity to play every day. As I said in my previous post, I don’t believe that Ensberg’s skill has declined to the point where he would be a .203/.263.243 hitter if he received around 350-400 at bats. Another note, according to the Fielding Bible, Ensberg has been a good fielding third baseman, 16 plays above average between 2005-2007. I don’t see any harm in signing him to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training, similar to what Mike Sweeney got last offseason.
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