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Taj's Thursday Thrade Thread: The Search for Power (part2)

As per Lew Wolff's Q & A session last Friday with the A's boosters:

Q: Will you bring in any big bats in the offseason?

A: The answer is yes.

So, first Billy indicates that the A's will be looking for more power for both the long-term and the short term and now Lew Wolff is guaranteeing that moves will be made.  I think it's time for a new round of trade/free agent speculation. We covered 3rd base options a few weeks ago, so let's turn to DH/infield/outfield options today.

Star-divide

DH/1st Base:

The easiest way to add offense quickly, especial for this team, is at the 1st base and/or DH spots. The only problem is, there is a bit of logjam at those positions at present and that logjam might be compounded if Chavez is going to be limited to DH/1B duty for the duration of his contract. Cust is the only reliable power source currently on the roster, so he's all-but guaranteed to return to the club next season, but ideally he wouldn't play too often in the field. So it's likely he'll be the team's primary DH next season. That leaves the 1st base spot open, which doesn't account for Barton, who although he had an awful season, is still young and could bounce back with consistent playing time. Nevertheless, let's look at some options for immediate upgrades:

Jason Giambi - If it wasn't for the whole Chavez "positional uncertainty" thing, I would think that Giambi would be a solid addition to the A's on a short-term contract (2009 with option for 2010). The Yankees are most likely going to cut him loose this winter and not offer him arbitration, so he'll only cost money. He can still hit for power, get on-base, play a little 1st base and has emerged as a solid clubhouse vet.

The problem I have with Jason is that he's a much better hitter at Yankee Stadium than anywhere else (.939 OPS vs. .838 OPS) and is a liability with the glove. However, he can still handle righties and lefties equally, and would clearly represent an immediate upgrade over Barton. I think Beane should make a strong play for Jason.

Prince Fielder - Speculation out there (like at mlbtraderumors.com) indicates that the Brewers will make Fielder available this winter and that he'd be an "interesting match" for the A's. I disagree with this. Fielder is a monster with the bat and hasn't even reached his prime, however, he's insisted on going year-to-year in arbitration, which will massively inflate his salary every year, hasn't gotten along swimmingly with either his teammates or ownership, is a liability at 1st with the glove and has trouble hitting lefties. Why not just save the top prospects that would be needed to get Fielder and sign Giambi instead? They're basically the same player, except that Giambi hits lefties better, is more accomplished and at least seems like a better teammate.

Ryan Howard - See above.

Magglio Ordonez - The Tigers will be looking to dump salary this off-season and pick up a few young pitchers along the way. Ordonez is their most marketable, expendable trade chip towards accomplishing that goal. From a pure performance standpoint, Magglio would be the perfect compliment to the A's offense: he hits for both power and average, doesn't strike out much for a slugger and is right-handed. However, Mags is primarily a right-fielder (the A's already have a logjam out there as it is) and his contract is somewhat problematic ($18 million next season, $18 million vesting option for 2010 and $15 million for 2011). He's 34, so his performance is likely to plateau or decline over the course of that commitment. Despite the logjam in the outfield, adding Ordonez (along with Giambi) would make the A's 2009/2010 lineups downright dangerous. If the Tigers were willing to trade Mags for Street, H-Rod and maybe Smith, Beane has got to think about it, especially with, presumably, some payroll flexibility to work with. Mags could also be a good mentor to fellow Venezuelan Carlos Gonzalez as he develops over the next 2-3 seasons.

Aubrey Huff - We covered him briefly in the 3rd base thread. Sure, Huff has had a great 2008 season and only comes with a modest $8 million 2009 salary. However, he's defensively limited to 1st base or even purely DH and isn't known to be a very good character guy. Here again, I see no reason to surrender even one solid prospect for someone like Huff when the A's could get the same type of player in Giambi for money only.

Kevin Millar - Solid character guy with 20-homer pop and a right-handed bat. Would probably come very cheaply (will be a free agent). Not an ideal solution by any means, but an option nonetheless.

Mark Teixera - Not gonna happen. Wolff already ruled out $100+ million contracts.

Manny Ramirez - Ditto Teixera.

Adam Dunn - He will cost roughly 15 times more than Cust for the next several seasons to be the team's DH, but is he really 15 times the Jackster? I don't think so, but you can disagree if you like...plus, he doesn't even like playing baseball.

Pat Burrell - Intriguing bat, although on the wrong side of 30 and limited defensively. I have also heard he prefers staying on the East Coast, which usually indicates that West Coast teams will have to overpay for his services. I'd pass on him...

Milton Bradley - Ha!

Juan Rivera - Would help against lefties, but with a roster chock-full of corner outfielders already, would he really be worth that much?

Billy Bulter/Ryan Shealy- The Royals will be taking bids on pretty much everyone on their roster this winter and Butler and Shealy will likely be available. Both guys have had up-and-down, brief major league careers after being seen as top prospects. Both are limited to 1B/DH, with Shealy the better fielder of the two. I wouldn't think that it would take a whole heck of a lot to get either of these guys and either one could provide modest right-handed power for a cheap salary for a few seasons.

Ryan Garko - Another name floated by Nico in recent days. A straight Street-for-Garko swap would probably work for both teams, although Garko's coming off a down year and is defensively limited to only 1st base, which hurts his value to the team long-term. He is also more of a platoon player as he a very good hitter against lefties but more of an average hitter against righties, which limits his overall utility.

2B

The A's face an interesting situation with Mark Ellis this winter. Before getting injured and shut down for the season, Mark was set up to be a fairly valuable commodity on the free agent market as the 2nd best 2nd baseman available. His injury status has likely cost him at least a few million dollars. At this point, I think it would be prudent both for Mark and the A's to work something out for next season, as he can re-establish his value going into the 2009 free agent market and help the young A's with his quiet leadership and defense. That the A's immediate internal 2B options (Pennington and Patterson) haven't really impressed and look more like bench players going forward, while the team's top 2nd base prospects (Cardenas and Weeks) are at least a year away, should serve to reinforce this line of thinking. Nevertheless...

Dan Uggla - Dan's been the subject of trade threads all his own. He's a pretty poor defender at 2nd, but if he could play adequate defense at 1st or 3rd he could be an intriguing option. Strikes out a ton, but good power. Under club control for 3 more seasons. However, it might take a boatload of good prospects to get him.

Orlando Hudson - The best all-around 2nd baseman on the market. Switch-hitter, doesn't strike much, gets on-base. But will be looking for both big money and big years, both of which don't jive much with the current state of the A's...

SS

I don't know what Bobby Crosby is complaining about. He's accumulated the most at-bats of any Athletic this season and has played in the most games since his rookie year. It's his own fault that he's been abysmal offensively and has forced the A's to look into other options (Pennington) at this point in the season at the expense of his own playing time. It's clear at this point that even when fully healthy Crosby isn't very good. Unfortunately, the A's are on the hook for Crosby's $5 million+ salary for 2009. He's basically untradeable at this point, but if the A's are serious about contending in 2009, they will find a way to cut him loose. I would like to see the team give him the Kotsay treatment: offer to pay most, if not all, of his 2009 salary in a trade offer. Crosby's fairly horrible offensively, but he plays adequate defense and for a million bucks, I could see a desperate National League team pick him up. That could free up the shortstop position for a big  time acquisition:

JJ Hardy - I'm a big fan of Hardy and with the emergence of stud shortstop prospect Alcides Escobar, he might be available for the right price. JJ is no great shakes with the glove, lacking range, but he makes all the routine plays and isn't a liability by any means. Most of his value comes from his bat, where he has consistently gotten better and better every year in the majors. He's having a career year this season, so his price might be inflated, and yet he's still only 26 years old and under club control for two more seasons, so it's highly likely that he either sustains his current level of production (.820+ OPS/25+ homers) or even slightly improves on it as he progresses through his prime years. Defensively adequate shortstops who can hit for power and average are gold mines, and this is why I think Beane will pursue him.

I could envision a deal with the Brewers would definitely begin with Street. They would also probably want a young, MLB-ready starter and at least a solid prospect. So, in all, I could see a deal look like Hardy for Street, Greg Smith (would be pretty good in the NL and is a good hitter for a pitcher) and H-Rod or Andrew Bailey. That's a good little haul for Milwaukee, but Hardy's a very valuable commodity and since the A's system is very weak on pure shortstop prospects, I could see Beane look to extend Hardy for several years after acquiring him.

(Of course, Milwaukee, on the verge of heading to the playoffs for the first time in decades, might want to keep it's current corps intact, refusing to deal Hardy. JJ is also long-time family pals with Robin Yount, which might present some difficulties for a potential trade deal. In that case, I'd go for a straight Street-for-Alcides Escobar trade. Alcides won't help next season, but he can start the year in AAA and take over shortstop in 2010 when Bobby leaves. He broke out with the bat this season in Double-A and has always been seen as a Gold Glove-caliber shortstop).

Rafael Furcal- Nico's been advocating for the A's to go after Furcal for some time now. I really have no major objections with him as a player. If fully healthy, he'd be an upgrade for virtually every team in major league baseball at the shortstop position. I'm a little concerned with his injury history, but he seems to be recovered from his early season back problems. He showed very surprising big-time power numbers earlier this season in a small sample size, but I think he's more of a slashing lead-off hitter in the Chone Figgins-mold, so he wouldn't exactly fill the role of "middle-of-the-order run producer" that we all can probably agree is the team's biggest need, however, like I said before, he's still a very worthy target. Other concerns include the fact that Furcal is already 30 (whereas Hardy, for example, is only 26) and will likely be looking only for a short-term, high-dollar deal in order to maximize his value and delve back into free agency next season. Also, many other teams will likely be vying for Furcal's service, as he is likely the best option on the free agent market at his position; so it's likely his price tag may exceed what Oakland is willing to offer.

Conclusion

I think it's reasonable to believe that the A's will seek to add two major bats this off-season to address both on-base issues and power issues - one via free agency and the other via trade. I think it's fairly obvious that my preferred free agent target is Jason Giambi, especially if there is any chance that Eric Chavez returns to play 3rd base next season. Giambi isn't much of a 1st baseman, is aging and has been somewhat buoyed-up by the short right-field porch at Yankee Stadium. However, even in neutral stadiums Jason has been a good hitter this season (.852 OPS, 16 homers) and isn't a liability against left-handed pitchers. He was always a pretty good clubhouse guy and would be good for the young hitters, including Barton. At this point in his career, he would probably take a fair value, 1 or 2 year deal and he has stated his preference to return to the West Coast to play out his career. As far as logjam issues, I envision Giambi getting most of his at-bats at 1st, with some starts at DH against tough lefties, but with Cust getting most of the at-bats and Giambi getting plenty of rest. (He hasn't yet surpassed 450 at-bats this season, and was still incredibly productive).

As far as trade targets, I would love to get Hardy, both because he'd be an immediate major upgrade over Crosby and is young enough to be a building block for the next A's playoff run. However, it would take a lot to get him, and even though the A's and Brewers match up well on the surface and the Brewers have a very talented prospect just about ready to take over for Hardy, a potential playoff run could put JJ off-limits. I'd still make a strong offer for him.

If Hardy isn't available, my next favorite target would be Ordonez. Sure, he would only add to the outfield cluster f***, is old and is expensive, but he's a helluva proven hitter and is pretty much the antithesis of most of the current hitters on the A's, which is a good thing! He also seems like a decent veteran guy (albeit with some quirks) and would especially be good for Cargon. The A's can definitely afford his salary over the next few seasons, especially if they jettison Street and/or Duchscherer to acquire him and/or let Embree/Crosby/Ellis go.

All in all, the 2009 A's lineup might look like something this, with the different possibilities highlighted:

1. Sweeney/Buck - RF

2. Cunningham - LF/ Ellis - 2B

3. Cust - DH

4. Hardy - SS/Mags - LF

5. Giambi - 1B

6. Suzuki - C

7. Cargon - CF

8. Baisley - 3B/Barton - 3B

9. Crosby - SS/Pennington - 2B

Some speed and contact skills at the top of the lineup, followed by Cust who may be just a touch better making contact after his winter eye exercises and after being protected by a couple legit hitters. Then, either way between Mags/Hardy  and Giambi backing them up, you have a legitimate middle of the lineup with power from sides of the plate.

Ellis, if healthy and amenable to a one-year deal, would be a nice addition to the lineup and would help cover some of Giambi's defensive deficiencies. Third base might still be a problem in this scenario, however, I think Baisley could be a .750/.760 OPS player with consistent playing time and I would honestly like to see Barton get more time at the hot corner occasionally to add utility to his game and allow him to work out his offensive issues. This scenario also leaves open the possibility that Chavez, after taking nearly an entire year off from baseball activity, could return to 3rd base for the A's in the middle of 2009 and provide the equivalent of a mid-season trade. Before you all say "there's no way Chavez plays 3rd ever again and you can't plan that way," just understand that I'm only suggesting something that may happen. The A's offense, in my scheme, would still be fine without Chavez, IMHO, but it still leaves open that possibility.

So what do you all think?

 

 

5 recs | Comment 309 comments

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I'm know some of these guys are just being listed for the sake of being listed

but really, I don’t see a point in including someone like Kevin Millar.

Millar will be a 37 year old, with OPS+ of 111, 106, 91 the previous 3 seasons. Millar is another Jay Payton / Shannon Stewart / Emil Brown.

And I really don’t see how you can see Shealy as interchangeable with Butler. Butler will be 23 next season. Shealy will be 29. There’s a world of difference between the 2. Shealy is really no different, and no better than a Dallas McPherson, a Nelson Cruz type.

If the likes of Shealy or Millar are viable targets, then McPherson, Cruz, Pascucci et al, should also be.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 25, 2008 3:12 PM PDT   0 recs

Also,

I don’t see why how much Dunn is going to be paid relative to Cust matters at all. You don’t have to replace Cust with Dunn.

I’m assuming that not liking to play baseball crack is a joke.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 25, 2008 3:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Seeing as how Beane has signed/traded for the likes of Jay Payton/Shannon Stewart/emil Brown in the last

few seasons, I decided to throw Millar’s name into the hat. Not that I would ever want to see him on the A’s, but he’s right-handed, plays 1B and has hit 20 homers in a season.

As far as the Cust v. Dunn salary comparisons, I only pointed that out because Cust and Dunn are very similar players, play similar positions and will likely play the same role on future A’s teams. I would rather use the money that would likely go to signing Dunn to sign Giambi and/or taking on Magglio’s contract, when we already have Cust on the team.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 4:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Probably should have pointed that out in the post...

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 4:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Two Custs are better than one!

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 25, 2008 5:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You don't have a place for Dunn

because of Cust, but you want Giambi, a guy who might get injured just running the bases?

If you can’t fit Dunn into the team because of Cust, where the hell are you going to fit Giambi in?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 25, 2008 11:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This is the A's,

anyone can get hurt running the bases.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Sep 26, 2008 4:33 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Uh? First base?

Or seat 3c on the bus … both Jack Cust and Adam Dunn insist on window seats …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Sep 28, 2008 10:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wait. Kevin Millar is black?

It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Sep 25, 2008 3:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

We're all originally from Africa

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 25, 2008 5:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Millar is realistic

The other guys on this list are not

McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there

by streetisclosedin08 on Sep 25, 2008 4:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well OK.

Shannon Stewart is also realistic. As is Emil Brown.

There’s no freaking point to bringing in Millar.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 25, 2008 11:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sign Giambi. Trade for Maggs. Move Barton to third. That is all.

It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Sep 25, 2008 3:31 PM PDT   0 recs

That statement would have saved me about 3 hours of work.

In the future, can I just e-mail you with ideas before I post them and have you review them so that I don’t waste time?

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 3:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Just win, baby.

It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Sep 25, 2008 3:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like this a lot.

can we add 30M in payroll?

by ohmangoAs on Sep 25, 2008 4:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ideally, it'd be more like 25 million.

18 for Ordonez and about 10 for Giambi.

But take into account that the team will likely part with Street to get Ordonez, so that’s $3.3 million off the books. Ideally, Embree would not be invited back, so that’s another $3 million saved. Emil Brown comes off the books, that’s another $1.45 million. Foulke is gone = $700K. The obligations to Calero ($1 million) and Kotsay ($5 million) will also come off the books. That’s a total savings on the current team obligations of about $14.5 million. If you add in about $10 million (very liberal) for arby raises for Duke, Bowen and Cust and then Crosby’s 1.75 mil raise, then you’re looking at Wolff upping the total team payroll by about $25 million to get this all done. (not counting what the team intends to do with Ellis. Without him, that’s another $5 million off the books, with him, about $5 million on the tab.)

The team operating payroll would then likely be in the neighborhood of the low-mid 50’s. That’s considerably more than this season’s payroll, but still way low for a major league team.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 4:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd be hoping that Crosby would be part of the Magglio package, too

As PT has pointed out, if Detroit decides that they’re going into full-rebuild mode, then they likely have no use for Street or Crosby (I know, I know, and it’s stretching credulity to imagine that anyone would have any use for Crosby under any circumstances).

It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Sep 25, 2008 4:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

hmm..

I could think of a few things to use Crosby for..but he is a married man and his wife would probably get upset…that’s about it though!

by ilovegregsmith on Sep 25, 2008 5:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

We'll leave him on the curb for you

It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Sep 25, 2008 5:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Even without Magglio, the Tigers have a ton of high-dollar contracts that would...

indicate the team has every intent of competing for the near future. Leyland, Sheff, Guillen, Bonderman, Dontrelle, Inge, Polanco and Robertson are all signed for high-dollar contracts between 09-11, while Miggy Cabrera and Granderson are signed into next decade. It would take one hell of a fire-sale to completely rebuild that roster.

I find it MUCH more likely that with all that money already committed and Leyland on board for at least one more season, the Tigers would try for one last hurrah, target some useful pitchers than can plug holes in their staff (i.e. Street, Duke) while gradually shedding costs and transitioning into the next phase of Tiger baseball.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 5:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Or

Sign Giambi, trade for Hardy, and see what’s left over……and then maybe, just maybe………trade for Ordonez. Great post Taj!

by mrod on Sep 25, 2008 3:50 PM PDT   0 recs

THat would be insanity...

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 4:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Seriously

If Beane can trade for Hardy and Ordonez and keep Anderson/Cahill and a few from the next tier (I don’t care which), I would be so happy. Maybe even think going after Rasmus/Zimmerman and I would die.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Sep 25, 2008 5:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And then sign Manny...

…Sabbathia and Sheets for the rotation wouldn’t hurt and of course K-Rod to end the games.

McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there

by streetisclosedin08 on Sep 25, 2008 5:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

None of these guys are coming to Oakland

Get used to it now and you won’t be depressed come January/February

McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there

by streetisclosedin08 on Sep 25, 2008 5:12 PM PDT   0 recs

So, when Wolff says that the team will be adding a big bat

you think the Count from Sesame Street?

Knee-jerk pessimism not only isn’t smarter than knee-jerk optimism, it’s also annoying.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 25, 2008 5:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn't characterize Fremont as a "big at"

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 25, 2008 6:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

nice

It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Sep 26, 2008 9:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

2 useful lists...

compliments of MLB trade rumors.com

Free agent OBP leaders
 
BB’s favorite kind of player, from this list I’m intrigued by Eckstein as a 1yr 2B replacement if Ellis doesn’t resign, Casey Blake for 3B and I’m w/ Taj….Giambi baby.


2009 Free agents – initial list

filler types BB should consider…Garciaparra (1yr – 3B, Izturis (if BoCro is gone), Juan Rivera

Sad FA class…if Lew wants a big bat, BB will have to trade for one

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Sep 25, 2008 5:36 PM PDT   0 recs

Hardy as the cleanup hitter?

How does that make our lineup much better?

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Sep 25, 2008 5:38 PM PDT   0 recs

Uhhhh...

.834 OPS hitter with 24 homers, 73 RBIs that can hit for a respectable average. Wouldn’t that be an improvement over every spot in the lineup, save the one Cust is occupying?

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 5:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He won't hit for an .834 OPS in Oakland

More like high .700s, at best…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 25, 2008 5:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Doesn't matter, as so will everyone (hit for xxx OPS lower in Oakland).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 25, 2008 5:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The difference is more pronounced for players coming from hitters' parks

and the NL. Or in Hardy’s case, both.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 25, 2008 5:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think a lot depends on whether the A's believe

Hardy is getting better and better as a hitter, or is just having a nice season. Hardy reminds me a bit of Jhonny Peralta – a big SS who has some power and can hit, but started his career slowly before coming on, all the while proving that he shouldn’t really be playing at SS, but hey.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 25, 2008 6:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Also, theoreticaly, if we trade/evenually extend Hardy

his numbers (as well as all other Oakland players numbers) should get a nice bump if we ever make it into a new stadium… all speculation, but that’s the fun of it.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Sep 28, 2008 10:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If you're shooting for the moon,

I wonder what it would cost to get Aramis Ramirez – Beane and Hendry have a good relationship and after this season the Cubs may see fit to reload rather than stand pat (if Hendry is thinking in a Beane like way).

Granted, what the Cubs would demand probably exceeds what the A’s would/should give up, but it’s interesting to speculate as Ramirez is under contract long-term and solves every A’s need – a 3Bman who can field, a legitimate power hitter, a right-handed hitter – beautifully.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 25, 2008 5:42 PM PDT   0 recs

See, so does Ordonez...

and it’s likely that he’ll actually be shopped this winter. That’s why Mags makes the most sense, to me. The Tigers need a closer and/or dependable set-up men: Street, check. And they need reliable starters of any type: Duke/Smith/Eveland, check. Give or take another prospect or another contract to make things even, and you’re talking about a deal that’s not as far fetched as some may think…

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 5:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The difference just being that Ordonez plays OF

and A. Ramirez plays 3B. Yeah, I’d like either, thank you very much!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 25, 2008 5:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

they also need a shortstop who can field

Crosby, check. (Yes, I know, the various defensive stats say his range has decreased this year; I’m an agnostic on D stats, and even if you’re not, CW hereabouts seems to be that it takes 3 years or so worth of a sample for a meaningful picture from them.)

Heck, I’d overpay for Maggs: Street + Crosby + Sweeney/CarGo/Cunningham/Buck + Duke/Smith/Eveland/Gio/Braden

It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Sep 25, 2008 6:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's the type of deal I was invisioning.

However, the main reason Maggs might be on the block in the first place is for the Tigers to save money. Subtracting Maggs and his $18 million but adding Street and his $3.5 million+, Crosby and his $5.25 million and Duke and his $2 million+ wouldn’t really jive with that idea.

Would you be in favor of the “Kotsay Doctrine” put into effect here…instead of say, Duke, the A’s send Street, Crosby and Eveland + $5 million to the Tigers to give Detroit more salary relief?

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 6:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd rather keep Eveland than Duke

seeing as what Duke is leaving after next season and all…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 25, 2008 6:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I would too.

But if the Tigers are really going to be mandated to cut payroll from $130 million to $110 million over the winter yet still make the pitching staff and defense better, then they will not be looking to add someone like Duke who, with his arbitration raise, will probably make somewhere in the $4 million range, along with Street who should be in the $5 million range AND crosby in the $5 million range? That deal would make no financial sense for a team looking to cut payroll.

That’s why I believe they’ll target the pre-arb A’s pitchers.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Sep 25, 2008 7:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Factoring in their respective contracts...

Eveland alone is more valuable than Ordonez right now.

"Some of the men didn't wait for the women and children to jump off the sinking ship that is our season." - 67MARQUEZ

by notsellingjeans on Sep 25, 2008 7:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmm...This is me not agreeing with that statement.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 25, 2008 7:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Think of it as "Eveland, and also Adam Dunn"

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 25, 2008 8:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You know, this is interesting

We’ve now come to the point where in 99% of the time, trading Pre-Arby players for stars is less lucrative than keeping the prospects and overpaying a star FA. I’ve seen that analysis applied several times here (especially re: Prince Fielder and Ryan Howard).

 In a way, that suggests that market price for FA’s is right on as long as the pre-arby years are this cheap.

by ohmangoAs on Sep 25, 2008 8:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure

Market price for free agents should probably, if anything, be higher given the current salary structure.

What should really be higher is the minimum salary, which is ridiculously low at this point.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 25, 2008 8:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It just interesting...

it’s easy to respond matter of factly…

but how often do we hear about the “out-of-control” FA market?

by ohmangoAs on Sep 25, 2008 8:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How often do we hear about "out of control" teachers' unions?

The press doesn’t check its typical rabidly anti-employee stance at the stadium gate.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 25, 2008 8:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

true...

not really thinking we disagree.

by ohmangoAs on Sep 25, 2008 10:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

not to mention all those ripped, gleaming, roid-addled middle school instructors

It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Sep 26, 2008 10:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You called?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2008 12:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It may actually get out of control if Dunn is perceived to be

a lot more valuable than Magglio. Imagine if he really gets $23M/year or something.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 25, 2008 10:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd rather keep Eveland than Duke

I don’t agree with this statement or the idea…….at all!

by mrod on Sep 25, 2008 11:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Do you agree with the six-year free agency rule?

Actually, it’s pointless to ask that question. Regardless of whether you agree with it or not, it exists.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 26, 2008 12:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The six year free agency rule is not up to me

All I was doing was stating that I’d rather keep Duke than keep Eveland….and that is all.

by mrod on Sep 26, 2008 12:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What you're really saying, though

is that you’d rather keep 2 mediocre draft picks (if that) than Eveland.

There’s no way one season of Duke is worth more than five seasons of Eveland. Even if he’s just a mediocre innings-eater, having him means you can trade your other mediocre innings-eaters for something else.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 26, 2008 8:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Let me respond to Paul
  1. Right now, Duke is a better starting pitcher than anyone on the staff, albeit his health kinda took a detour later in the season.
  1. I don’t know that, for instance, if Beane decides to take a chance and reward Duke with a 3 year contract, fair but reasonable, instead of arby.
  1. If Duke plays the majority or all of that contract and more than lives up to it in performance, then the A’s win-win all the way. Duke wins, the A’s win, and if Duke is traded at that point in time the A’s get more value because he’s shown performance and health. If he walks, then the A’s probably get a better pick instead of the two medicore ones you mentioned.

Honestly, if you were gonna trade starting pitchers right now, Eveland would have more value because he is young, cheap, and left handed. And he seems to be a really healthy guy