Embree-O Miscarries A's Back Into Third Place
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 7:56 PM PDT
128 comments
Re-enacting a version of the childhood game "Duck...Duck...Goose!" Alan Embree retired the first two hitters in the bottom of the 7th with the A's leading 4-3, before giving up a broken bat bleeder through the left side, a pop fly RBI single off the hands to left-center, and then a "no doubt about it" tie-breaking homerun to right: Dunk...Dunk...OOPS! And so the A's, despite a mammoth HR from Cust and a two-run bomb from Buck, drop back into third place pending tomorrow morning's rubber game in Arlington.
What I want to focus on, though, is a positive that you might not glean from the box score and that is the considerable potential I believe Josh Outman has as a starting pitcher. His fastball, consistently 92-94MPH with good movement, gives him the best "power arm" this side of Sean Gallagher. His slider impresses me with its late, sharp movement, and he mixed it up with an occasional curve that froze the Rangers' hitters the few times he showed it. His changeup is a work-in-progress, but he threw a couple that were extremely effective, notably one that had Michael Young out in front bouncing weakly to SS. Finally, while Outman's control is not great he appears to be confident enough about challenging hitters.
So why then did he allow 10 hits, and 3 runs, in 6 innings? Many came on 3-1 fastballs, meaning that - surprise, surprise - major league hitters, especially the best hitting team in the league, can hit a good fastball on a fastball count. Just like Smith, Eveland, and Gio Gonzalez, Outman needs to throw more strikes to be successful, but he has the stuff and I like his aggressiveness. He also handled jams well, minimizing damage at times when innings could easily have spun out of control. I hope the A's will give Outman a chance to prove his mettle as a starter next March - and if he doesn't win one of the five jobs out of spring training, so be it. But just as Braden, with his new-found facility at adding and subtracting on the fastball, has put himself into consideration, I think Outman, with his "power arm" and developing repertoire, has done the same. Plus he has a cool name.
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God I hate Embree
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Sep 23, 2008 8:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great recap
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Sep 23, 2008 8:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Something that's not totally accurate
Of Outman’s 10 hits allowed, only 3 of them (all 3 doubles) came on 3-1 counts. The other hits came on 0-0 counts twice, 1-0 twice, 1-1 once, 1-2 once, and 2-2 once.
by thejd44 on Sep 23, 2008 8:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think 30% is a fairly high percentage - especially when you consider
that those three balls were all ripped to the wall.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Most hits come in hitters counts, especially big hits. I didn’t check to see how many 3-1 counts he was in where he got an out. Maybe he was lucky tonight and had more 3-1 counts that turned out ok (also I believe he threw 53 strikes and 37 balls. That needs to improve).
by thejd44 on Sep 23, 2008 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worst. Recap. Title. Eeeeeeever.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Sep 23, 2008 8:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why? Don't you agree that Embree is a total abortion?
by thejd44 on Sep 23, 2008 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no room for political correctness on this blog
by lynnzgal on Sep 23, 2008 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tact is simply not telling the complete truth
(seriously though, one definition of the word abortion is “monstrosity.”)
by thejd44 on Sep 23, 2008 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so Alan Embree is a monstrosity of a vehicle?
Should we start calling him Scion?
by thejd44 on Sep 23, 2008 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just noticed it.
Wow.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Sep 23, 2008 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would argue that Nico is a Uniter not a Divider
Who, regardless of political affiliation, isn’t against miscarriages and, for that matter, Alan Embree?
Reduce your carbon footprint, commit suicide.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 23, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outman needs to get that curve ball down.
a bit more. It will be very sexy.
by lynnzgal on Sep 23, 2008 8:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here's something crazy, if slightly OT
With the Yankees out of the playoffs, no one team in the majors has currently made the playoffs more than two years in a row. And if you’re thinking Red Sox, they missed in ’06. As did the Angels.
Seriously, wow.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Sep 23, 2008 8:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And if the Phillies make it it will be only 3 of last year's 8 in this year. 2 if they don't.
Parity!
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 23, 2008 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't the Cubs make it last year?
Of course they exited so quickly, you may heve missed them.
Same can be said for the Angels.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Sep 24, 2008 5:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody watching the Brewers game?
Man, that was awesome.
Kendall hit a game-tying double. A double! The right fielder was playing very shallow (gee, I wonder why), and Kendall knocked a routine fly ball right over his head. Gamer!
Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.
by salb918 on Sep 23, 2008 8:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Outman
While Outman certainly has potential, he probably should rely less on getting batters out by having them hit smashes into the outfield and then get thrown out trying to stretch those hits into doubles and triples. Just a suggestion.
by SA on Sep 23, 2008 8:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I suppose he could try that
I’m not suggesting that Outman’s performance was that great tonight – I just saw future potential through the struggles. Sometimes with young guys you have look past the “is” and see what does or doesn’t lie beneath the surface.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree on Outman
He certainly has potential, I was just making fun of how unusual it is to get two outs like that on smashes to the outfield. And I agree young pitchers shouldn’t be viewed with the assumption that their rookie year is close to their ceiling. Someone who is merely “okay” their first year might become very good with just some more experience. In a few years Greg Smith may turn out to be better than people think. Look how Eveland seems to have improved quite a bit with some fine-tuning to his mechanics.
by SA on Sep 23, 2008 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree - the big question will be control
Smith, Eveland, Gio, and Outman all suffer from not enough control right now, but in different ways. Smith has good mechanics and looks like he has the best chance to gain command soon. Gio is young enough that a lot of his issues may be “new level” and “not ready” – though his mechanics are a bit spastic, too. Eveland is the one who just seems often to have little clue as to what’s going to happen once the ball leaves his hand – I’d say Outman is ahead of Eveland but maybe behind the others in “projected command”. Time – and maybe help from Young and Romanick – will tell…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sat like 12 rows up from homeplate
Outman stuff look great. Only time he got in trouble was behind in the count like ever other pitcher in baseball would be. He made Hamilton look bad tonight on im not sure if they were sliders or changeups
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sliders - some were doozies, too
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea he just got behind the count to much
to a good hitting team. Got lucky on that metcalf fly ball with bases jucied. Ball cust hit was a bomb
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple balls really surprised me -
Crosby hit a ball I was sure was going out and it didn’t even make it to the warning track. And I didn’t think Blalock’s opposite field drive was going as far as it did (high up off the wall).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sliders...
w/ bacon and cheese? Fries or no fries?
by mrod on Sep 24, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duck embryo?
Don't blame me, I voted for Bill King.
by Englishmajor on Sep 23, 2008 8:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Balut
The worst part for me isn’t the taste, but the smell…
by deftoned on Sep 23, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That might be Travis Buck, from what I understand
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NORM!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not sure y Blevins didnt come in over embree
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geren had said he was hoping not to use Blevins -
pretty much our top 4 relievers were all not available. One of those cases of yesterday’s game costing today’s game to a degree.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohh k
I probley would of used Gio over Embree. Blalock since been back has killed leftys. Gio at least has a curve to throw in there and they havent seen him before
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I was hoping for, actually:
Put Gio in to start the 7th and let him go the rest of the way. As inconsistent as he’s been, that’s probably a loss too, but I prefer the approach. See what he can do and give all the short relievers a day off.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea another thing i thought
Why did we keep Outman in after we got the lead and then he gives up two base hits in a row. I guess when your rebuilding you want to see what the kid is made of and learn to work out of it.
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Outman pretty much needed to go as long as possible
The bullpen was truly spent, in that “don’t make me come back there and put in Dan Meyer!” kind of way.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
CarGon looks so lost at the plate
Cunningham seems like he has a better approach at the dish then CarGon at this point. Swinging at the first pitch when the guy has been wild
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about the two-strike approach of
swinging at a pitch up around your eyes? Gak.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea ive been to both games
Cliff Pennington kid is a ball player. Im not sure what oakland wants to do with him but the kid gets stuff done. I really hope we get the win tomorrow, i cant stand tom hicks and just to see him fail is great.
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I worry about Pennington's hitting
because his lack of power is so profound that he could face a “seven INF” alignment soon and I could see him hitting .230/.290/.350. But I like his glove a lot at 2B and I like his speed a lot.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea he has great speed and Defense
Yea has hitting a big iffy. I went to A&M and thats where played and he had soem power then but thats also with metal bats
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that he's willing to shorten his swing
and hit to all fields with a “spray line drives” approach. To do that he has to learn to lay off the high fastball because he’ll just lift it routinely again and again. He might be better suited to a team that plays on turf – he needs to hit a lot of hard ground balls (or line drives, but who can hit all line drives?) to be successful.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Pennington can be a plus defender, especially if he plays short
I can deal with a guy being a high OBP/no power guy. The problem wouldn’t be him, it’d be the rest of the lineup also being subpar offensively. You can hide a guy like that at the bottom of your order, but only if you have competent people elsewhere.
by thejd44 on Sep 24, 2008 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pennington would be a great utility guy
his glove is good enough to keep him around and he is very valuable in that he seems to be one of only a couple of guys on the club who can bunt for a hit. Great speed, plus arm, and he’s got “grit!”.
by mrod on Sep 24, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike Petit, who of course lacks grit because he's Latino
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 24, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont pitch embree anymore
so he doesnt screw up his type B status
outman control is shaky but still throwed 93-95mph, showed flashed of solid breaking stuff
how did gio look later in the game with velocity?
by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 23, 2008 9:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Gio's velocity looked ok, but ball were hit pretty hard
so the location/movement were not sparkling. He was working on long rest so it’s not surprising his first (and only, as it turned out) inning was shaky in that regard. The velocity seemed fine, though – around 91MPH.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nico
Who do you think will start at third next year? Basiley hasnt looked that bad
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced that next year's starting 3Bman is on the current roster
I think (and I have no inside knowledge on this) the A’s will seek to overhaul half their infield. Plan A appears to be Chavez, but I could see him quickly moving to 1B or DH if/when it becomes apparent that throwing is too hard on his shoulder – they NEED his bat. I hope/expect to see a brand new face on the infield, someone who is known as a hitter, along with Chavez somewhere.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In other words, from among
Barton, Ellis, Pennington, Crosby, Hannahan, and Baisley I expect to see only two of those guys on the Opening Day roster in 2009.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is our chances of bringing Giambi back to Oakland?
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd jump at it, personally
Not as a long-term solution but as an excellent stop-gap solution until the “really competitive” years. A 1-2 year deal at an affordable price could make a huge difference in the A’s chances for being competitive in 2009. Personally, I’d love to see Giambi and Furcal signed. And I have no problem with sticking Barton at AAA for a year; he’s young, has work to do, and needs to know it won’t be handed to him. If he’s for real, he’ll be back – he’ll force his way back by how he plays in AAA. He should be assured of nothing, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea i would love for him to come back
I think we lacking a solid right handed stick with power, any names out there we have a chance at
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not exactly a true power bat, but
I think J.J. Hardy would be a nice upgrade on the left side of the infield – though defensively he may need to move over to 3B to make it. Same deal with Jhonny Peralta. I still think Ryan Garko is a little better than perceived – again not an “impact bat” but one that could improve the current offense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You were probably hoping for better though, huh?
I’m just trying to think of upgrades that may not cost Cahill/Anderson guys to get. Do you have guys in mind I might not have considered?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My hesitation would be adding a true DH
(and Rivera is worse than Cust defensively, IMO) because then there’s no spot for Cust – and if you add Rivera by subtracting Cust you haven’t really upgraded.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Point there
Yea its goign to be tough with outfield free agents or Trades due to depth in the outfield with Sweeney, Cargon, Buck and cuninham
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I'll add one more: Troy Glaus
At worst a one-year filler, at best a contract extension. He could play 3B until Chavez can or until someone else (e.g. Cardenas) comes up – and if he stays more than a year he can DH. We have pieces the Cards need, like relievers (Street), starting pitching depth – so I could see a fair deal there.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to have him
For Street hell yea i do that deal
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I love to think about is that
if, say, we made a Street / Glaus based deal, and signed Giambi, we would still have a good bullpen and a deep rotation, and a lineup that had Sweeney, Cunningham, Buck, Gonzalez, Cust, Giambi, Glaus, Chavez, and Suzuki to choose from…
Not bad?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds great to me
Just hope Billy sees it that way
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nico thought of another name
Garret Atkins from Rockies, with Ian stewert pretty much has third base locked up, he may a guy to go after
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except he's fucking awful.
But other than that, let’s do it!
by mikev on Sep 23, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really, really hate the Giambi signing idea
Because I think it’s completely counterproductive to sign a guy like that when he’s only going to block guys like Barton from getting at bats in a year when the team isn’t expected to win anything. If Barton still isn’t hitting after 2009, then maybe you get an aging veteran to replace him in 2010.
by thejd44 on Sep 24, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he won't block Barton if ... Barton's moved to third!
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Sep 24, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adding Giambi increases the chance
that A’s might win something in 2009 – add Giambi and one more good bat and it’s a real possibility. Plus Barton is only being blocked by his own performance – if he shows he deserves ABs there are plenty of options, including Giambi at DH. I don’t see a problem there.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 24, 2008 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 Nico!
Plus, competition is good for Barton because I know he has the talent to succeed but someone needs to light a fire under his ass and Giambi would definitely provide that.
It could very well happen and us A’s fans are not the only ones discussing this. I have heard from other folks around sports hubs talking about Giambi possibly returning next year as a FA.
by mrod on Sep 24, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just hope we make some moves
I really do think that if we had some bats we have a good shot to do something as long as out pitchers keep developing and bullpen stays strong. Angels are getting older
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say realistically, just shoot for the Wild Card
(that is, just try to be “good” and don’t worry about how good the Angels might be) in 2009, then aim to be the “cream of the league” in 2010.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 23, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why you would say that when every team that's contending for the wild card
is a superior team to the Angels…
Seriously, they are maybe the 4th best team in the AL, maybe not even 4th.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 23, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox, Rays and ???
They’d be pretty good if they could re-sign Teixeira and just left Wood alone at 3B. They should move Chone to DH/UT if they keep GMJ for LF. With Morales or Rodriguez instead of Teixeira though…
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 23, 2008 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sox, Rays, Jays, arguably the Yankees and White Sox
Possibly the Twins. Possibly even the Indians.
It’s really impossible to overstate just how inflated the Angels’ record is this year. They are 15 games over their third-order record; no other team in baseball has more than a 10 game differential and 23 teams out of 30 are within 6 games.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 24, 2008 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya they were lucky, but I also don't think their talent is
as bad as their Pythagenport. But as you say, they’re likely to be worse than the Wild Card team.
Jays lost three starters from their rotation. That’s gotta hurt.
Yankees — yes if they sign Teixeira, keep Mussina and Pettitte and the young pitchers develop. Things could get really ugly for them though. They could either win the World Series or win 72 games.
White Sox, Twins and Indians — sure it’s possible, but I’d take the Angels roster over any of them, mainly because the Angel pitching seems more certain.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 24, 2008 2:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to see them go down...
to the “Hitless Wonders,” as the Cubs did in 1906. I don’t know who the NL equivalent would be this year. Maybe the D-Backs, but I don’t think even they have a team batting average of .230.
The A’s would’ve been a good candidate… too bad we’re not in the NL West. I wish the Marlins had made it. They’d kill the Halos.
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 24, 2008 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly, PT, I think you've massively
underrated the Angels all year. They’re just a better team than you think. Hopefully they get worse, but right now they’re just a very good team.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 24, 2008 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sure hope they think that
and “stand pat” like the “good group” the 2007 Rockies had.
That sure worked out well.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 24, 2008 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have no idea
how badly I want you to be right. But if I’m not mistaken, last year’s Rockies were basically a .500 team that got hot at just the right time. Not so much the Angels. They’ve played good baseball all year long. They’ve played an older style baseball as described above, but on the other hand there were a couple of games where the A’s defense countered their aggression.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Sep 24, 2008 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've pretty much had the same conversation
in March, April, May, July, and September:
“They’re not that good.”
“Actually they are.”
“They’ll start losing soon.”
“I don’t think so.”
At what point do the nay-saying just become wrong? It’s not a crime to be wrong. The 2008 Angels are a very good baseball team, and always were.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 24, 2008 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't argue with the obvious
facts. The Angels are a good team. They were a good team last year. There’s no reason to expect that they won’t be a good team next season either. Pythagoras obviously doesn’t know his small ball.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Sep 24, 2008 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Angels in the first half of the year were a bad team that was extraordinarily lucky
In the second half, they’ve been a good team that has been only slightly lucky.
The only difference between them and Colorado is that Colorado’s lucksack-wins came at the end of the season and not at the beginning, so there hasn’t been this huge bulge of “actual wins over expected wins” all season long.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 24, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
The Angels make Statheads spin in circles. That’s a very good baseball team. If the Angels have a lead after 6 innings, they will win the game 95% of the time. Starting pitching is very, very good, and always keep them in games. They get runners in scoring position by taking extra bases, advancing from 1st to 3rd regularly, steal bases, double-steals. They manufacture runs. Throw in a timely HR here-and-there + Home Field Advantage… And voila, everything adds up to a “W”. They play “Baseball”, and sometimes things can’t be measured solely using sabermetrics.
by Colorado Fan on Sep 24, 2008 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought this was just hyperbole
But surprisingly you run hot as the Angels actually win a little over 91% of the games they lead after 6 innings.
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
by iamawesomer on Sep 24, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was Hyberpole
And I was thinking playoffs… The Angels are built for the Playoffs. But God, I hope they lose.
by Colorado Fan on Sep 24, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shockingly enough, there have actually been teams like this before
and equally shockingly, they’ve essentially all regressed to the mean the next season.
This garbage about small-ball is just that— garbage. It’s totally and completely unsupported by the facts. You might just as well say that they’re outperforming their Pythag because the earth is flat and they have a unique style that wins more on flat planets.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 24, 2008 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion: You get so married to
regression stats like Pythag and BABIP and to predictive markers like FIP and K/BB ratio that you can’t see the exceptions for the trees.
I don’t doubt that the Angels will regress a bit next year, but they were a better team than you thought in the first half of the season, PT. I argued that before the season started, again soon after, and again before the ASB. Early on, before much of their “continued luck,” someone bet me the Angels would win less than 95 games and I said “you’re on, they’ll win more – they’re good.”
I’m sorry, dude, but you underestimated the Angels’ ability to win baseball games with the team they had.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 24, 2008 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to have Matthews in the lineup, he should be playing center
He’s a better fielder than Hunter.
by thejd44 on Sep 24, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Because the Stats say so or because you think that? Just askin.
by Colorado Fan on Sep 24, 2008 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced Chavez's bat will be especially useful anymore
by thejd44 on Sep 24, 2008 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine - I think it can be
We shall see.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 24, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, it can be for sure
I’m just saying that, even if healthy, I’m not relying on Chavez to fix the offensive problems. I have no idea what his healthy talent level is at this point because he just hasn’t been healthy.
by thejd44 on Sep 24, 2008 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As usual,
the A’s will be entering 09 with the “if” factor in full force and effect. IF Chavez can hit, IF the A’s sign Giambi, IF Cust stays true to form……
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Sep 24, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other teams go through that too, though
If Vlad’s knees hold up, if Arredondo can handle the closer’s job, if Saunders and Santana don’t regress big-time…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Sep 24, 2008 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The gun at the stadium
it was showing 90 to 92
by buckfan6 on Sep 23, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just read the game threads.
So, Travis smells like… cake? or something. Interesting.
by whiteshoes40 on Sep 23, 2008 9:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Shit
Embree is damaging his chances of being Type B. For God’s sake, Geren, don’t let him pitch anymore this season.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 23, 2008 10:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You think somebody is actually going to sign him next year?
Wait..
The Giants will probably give him 4/28.
by mikev on Sep 23, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't the A's have to offer him arbitration, have him reject, and then have another team sign him?
Correct me if this process is incorrect. Is it worth the risk of him accepting arbitration?
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Sep 23, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
Wouldn’t we have to decline Embree’s Option, then Offer him Arbitration? He’ll probably take the A’s money. I just don’t see a multi-year being thrown at Embree this offseason.
by Colorado Fan on Sep 23, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There has been a rule change in MLB's CBA
It is no longer necessary to offer Type B free agents arbitration to get a compensation pick.
Thus it would actually be advantageous in certain selective instances for teams to have players go out and suck horribly for several games. Specifically I’m thinking of Pudge Rodriguez here— if he drops to a Type B, New York doesn’t have to offer arbitration to get a pick for him.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Sep 23, 2008 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice, thanks for the info.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
by miggyk2 on Sep 23, 2008 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't even fathom how Rodriguez is even a Type B
All that proves is the compensation system used by Elias is severely effed up because Pudge has flatout sucked for two straight years.
by thejd44 on Sep 24, 2008 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outman
For as much as Outman left the ball Up-In-The-Zone tonight, he was still able to get people to chase, miss, and/or swing late. I think he might look better in the bullpen… that Slider to lefties is Nasty.
by Colorado Fan on Sep 23, 2008 10:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure, most pitchers look better in the pen, but he looked OK after the first three innings tonight
as a starter.
[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 23, 2008 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2010 - 2015
I don’t think Outman is starting for this team – I could be wrong, but I just think there’s too much talent in the Minor Leagues for him to stick in the rotation. And Outman has 2 “Out” pitches – Fastball/Slider. I just don’t see him controlling the zone enough with his 3rd and 4th pitches, when he can barely control the zone with is 2 out pitches.
by Colorado Fan on Sep 24, 2008 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that.
Outman is LHP who throws in the low to mid nineties. He has a couple of very good breaking pitches. He doesn’t throw them with enough confidence at the present time, but he will eventually. The only time he got raked was when he left the ball up in the zone. He became “predictable” when he felt like he needed a strike. He may as well have telegraphed hit intention to throw a fastball down the middle….which he ultimately did. He’ll learn, and when he does he could very well have ace potential.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Sep 24, 2008 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Some things never change – He’s got a lifetime 4.30 BB/9 IP in the Minor Leagues. That number will jump to 4.5 – 4.75 in a full year as a starter (next year). That is waaaaaaaaaaay too many walks. Then in 2010, he’ll be competing w/ Anderson, Cahill, Gallagher, Mazzaro, Simmons, Smith, Eveland, and probably a couple others.
by Colorado Fan on Sep 24, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a morning game is it, tomorrow?
As interesting as the A’s have been this September, I think I’ll watch the collapse of Western Civilization tomorrow morning as Nero fiddles. I’ve always kinda thought I’d be around to see this… and, here I am at ringside.
They’ve been told how bad things are… yet, they really don’t know how bad things are. There is no money to lend. Buy gold!
Foolsh, the most insane regular poster on AN since oaktoon left - salb
by FoolshGame22 on Sep 24, 2008 12:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
don't follow Foolsh's advice here, people
The run on gold has already begun in earnest. You’ll only be lining the pockets of Foolsh (though I don’t begrudge lil’ Galt and Gordon Gekko Gordon their inheritance).
The only true hedge against catastrophe is monkey crap.
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Sep 24, 2008 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buy oil, not gold
you can burn oil.
by MobiusKlein on Sep 24, 2008 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why do you think I recommended monkey crap?
It's just something we do. It's not something we like. @('.')@
by monkeyball on Sep 24, 2008 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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