2009 Lineups: Oakland and Sacramento

by Howzer on Sep 16, 2008 10:31 PM PDT

It's not too early for A's fans to start projecting our 2009 lineups:

Oakland:

Outfield: Cunningham, CarGon, Sweeney, Buck, Denofria (bye bye Rajai, you're only needed if Jack Cust is in the outfield)

Starting Pitchers: Duke, Smith, Eveland, Outman, Gallagher

Relief Pitchers: Braeden (long man) Devine, Ziggy, Blevins, Casilla, Brown, Street

Catcher: Suzuki, PTNL

Infield: Barton, Cardenas, Crosby, Big Hole at 3rd base (Hanahan just doesn't cut it).

Backups: Pennington or Patterson, Chavez (also backup DH/1B and maybe a few games at 3rd?).

DH Cust

Needs: A right handed hitting 3B with power

Look to trade: Street + Starter + Mazarro (depending on who we get back).

Say goodbye to: Davis, Hanahan

Sacramento:

Starting PItching:

Gonzalez, Anderson, Cahill, Simons, Mazarro....WOW! We will need to trade 1 to get a good 3B for the parent club.

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The No Acquisition's Line Up

RF Travis Buck
LF Aaron Cunningham
CF Ryan Sweeney
DH Jack Cust
1B Eric Chavez
C1 Kurt Suzuki
3B Jeff Basiley
2B Cliff Pennington
SS Bobby Crosby

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Sep 16, 2008 10:41 PM PDT 0 recs

The Pipe Dream Acquisition Line Up

CF Ryan Sweeney
RF Travis Buck
1B Prince Fielder
3B Dan Uggla
DH Jack Cust
LF Aaron Cunningham
C1 Kurt Suzuki
2B Eric Patterson
SS Cliff Pennington

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Sep 16, 2008 10:52 PM PDT up 0 recs

I like Dan Uggla at 3rd, but not as big a fan of Prince at 1st

Who do you plan on trading for those 2 other than Barton of course?

Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.

by miggyk2 on Sep 16, 2008 10:59 PM PDT up 0 recs

according to Moneyball, Fielder is too fat for us.

but i tend to think if Billy got a fair deal, he’d probably pull the trigger

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Sep 17, 2008 8:14 AM PDT up 0 recs

Put Chavy at 3rd and Barton at 1st and thats my lineup.

"With 16-year-old Dominican righty Michel Inoa in tow, Gio Gonzalez improving at Triple-A and lefty Brett Anderson carving up Double-Abatters along with Simmons and Trevor Cahill, Oakland’s pitching depthis officially the envy of baseball." - BaseballAmerica.com

by Syphon on Sep 16, 2008 11:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

or the other way around

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Sep 17, 2008 8:14 AM PDT up 0 recs

You've got me. I'm taking the bait

Cardenas is not that close.

What makes you believe that Denorfia is a better 5th OF option than Davis? I’m not saying he isn’t, but I don’t think that’s such a sure thing.

If your backup catcher is just some random backup, why not just stick with Bowen? I think it’s weird (and silly) to dump a guy who is a perfectly acceptable backup (and who is totally cost-controlled) without figuring out who replaces him.

I never would’ve posted this if Winesburg, Ohio would do a better job of keeping my full attention. I’m blaming Sherwood Anderson for this.

by thejd44 on Sep 16, 2008 11:08 PM PDT 0 recs

With regard to the backup C

I believe he misspelled “owel” as “TN”…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 11:16 PM PDT up 0 recs

This, and...

Braden has absolutely pitched his way into a rotation spot, bumping one of Smith/Eveland.

Outman could be a good starter, but he’s had all of one start. I’d hold off on that judgment.

Rajai’s speed and stellar defense makes him more than worthy of a backup OF spot. He’s not entirely useless with a bat, either. I just don’t see a way to give Denorfia a chance, given our crazy crowding in the outfield going into next year.

by danmerqury on Sep 16, 2008 11:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

Rajai is pretty useless with a bat...

I can kind of see an argument for platooning him against lefties, against which he has a mediocre career OPS of .710 or so, but there’s no possible way that he should ever be starting against righties, against whom his OPS is an execrable .630.

He’s just not a player who should be occupying a spot on a rebuilding club, IMO. He’s a pure bench player. As those guys go there are definitely worse ones around, but he’s not worth the roster space he’s taking up for a team that doesn’t especially need his limited skills.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 11:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

There's an argument for him if his defense is absolutely tremendous, like Gary Pettis or Paul

Blair. But it has to be in that neighborhood.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 17, 2008 1:03 AM PDT up 0 recs

I think that Davis adds something to the lineup

whereas Denorfia is simply redundant. Davis gives us speed and (dare I say?) defense, whereas we already have three guys in our starting outfield that do what Denorfia’s potential upside could be. I mean, he is a good/decent player, but I think having Rajai makes us versatile and better equipped to handle different situations.

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Sep 17, 2008 8:18 AM PDT up 0 recs

Depends on how you feel about the top 4 OF's

I think for this team there are too many question marks in the presumed starters. Denorfia is only redundant if your extremely confident that Cunningham and Buck are going to be reliable starters.

I hate to be a pessimist but I think that there is a high enough chance that two of the top four guys can’t be relied on to start (either due to injury or ineffectivenes) that it is worth it to keep a guy like Denorfia around rather than Davis.

by DiegoAsFan on Sep 17, 2008 9:24 AM PDT up 0 recs

What does Denorfia do better than Davis?

by thejd44 on Sep 17, 2008 9:28 AM PDT up 0 recs

Grow a porn-stache.

by mikev on Sep 17, 2008 10:04 AM PDT up 0 recs

denorfia

better minor league track record
potentially better hitter

he doesnt have davis speed, but maybe better overall skills at least in the hitting area

i think he was the reds minor league player of the yr and rated with the best plate discipline in that system by BA

that said, both davis/denotfia have that 4th OF label on them, the same as sweeney/cunnngham etc seem to get at times

as we know, beane probably wont cut his losses early from trades before deciding if a player is good or bat\d, we have yet to see that from denorfia due to the injuries with TJ and back

by the way, marcus mcbeth from that deal was claimed off waivers from red to red sox in august

by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 17, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up 0 recs

Hit?

I know, I know. The A’s don’t believe in “hitting.” But some teams feel that the ability to “score runs” is helpful in winning.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 17, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

I haven't seen him actually do that though

I think he is probably a better hitter than Davis, but Denorfia simply hasn’t done it (or stayed healthy long enough to do it) in the majors at a level that convinces me he’s the better player to have on the roster.

Plus, ideally whichever guy has a spot is a 5th OF. I’m more worried about my 5th OF playing defense, having speed, etc. That spot is for a guy who can bring some unique skills to the table. I’d take less hitting and more of the other things from a guy who shouldn’t be getting that many at bats anyway.

by thejd44 on Sep 17, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up 0 recs

OK, so

the fact that you were not physically present in Louisville when he was batting .349 for them in 2006 means that it wasn’t real?

The point of keeping Denorfia over Davis is not that he’s a better backup, it’s that he has a better chance of becoming a guy who is actually a plus starter. Even if it’s only 10%, why would you instead keep a player with a 0 % chance like Davis? The minimal extra value that Davis provides from the bench is meaningless to a team that isn’t very close to (or in) the playoffs.

If the A’s genuinely believe that they will seriously contend for a postseason berth next year, keeping Davis over Denorfia is a justifiable decision. If not, it really isn’t.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 17, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

Hypothetical for you

Davis has been pretty damn good in August and September this year. .298/.327/.447 slash stats, a tad low on the OBP side but still… a .775 OPS to go along with what appears to be plus defense in centerfield isn’t something to pass off as worthless, right?

I mean, I know it’s SSS and 2 hot months and everything, but… it would be kinda nice.

by mikev on Sep 17, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up 0 recs

Everything in their respective track records, major and minor leagues

suggests that Denorfia is a vastly superior pure hitter to Rajai Davis in every aspect (except steals). More average, more power, more walks.

If the best someone can come up with is a couple of months with a slugging-heavy .775 OPS that still can’t bring your season total to even replacement level… sorry, that definitely falls below my “passing it off as worthless” threshold.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 17, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

Have you watched him this year? I think his defense is absolutely on par with the best.

by thejd44 on Sep 17, 2008 9:27 AM PDT up 0 recs

Davis > Denorfia

Denorfia is trade bait.

by sf drift king on Sep 16, 2008 11:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

Since no one posted a Sacramento lineup

SS Petit
RF Herrera
CF Gonzalez
LF Murton
1B Bankston
DH Everidge
3B Guzman
C Recker
2B Sellers
P – same as Howzer
RP – Carignan, Garcia, Lansford, Dowdy

Not sure whether Murton has options or Bankston and Everidge are still going to be in the organization.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 16, 2008 11:24 PM PDT 0 recs

Add Kilby to the Cats BP

I think he looked pretty good last night at Bricktown. One who won’t be in Cats BP is HRod, who will be traded to a team needing heat over control.

by movetotexas on Sep 17, 2008 9:11 AM PDT up 0 recs

Nooo! Don't trade Henry!!!! Trade Carignan if you want to trade with a team like that.

And yes, I forgot about Kilby. He’s better than Dowdy.

[Crosby] "Guy that has driven in some big runs for the A's over the years" - Vince Cotroneo

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 17, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up 0 recs

i stopped reading at "Cardenas"

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 17, 2008 1:27 AM PDT 0 recs

Okay, I'll play. The No Aquisitions lineup

CF Cunningham
LF Buck
RF Sweeney
DH Cust
1B Chavez
C1 Suzuki
SS Crosby (ugh)
3B Baisley (assuming Barton doesn’t successfully transition to 3B in Winterball!)
2B Pennington/Patterson

by mikev on Sep 17, 2008 8:24 AM PDT 0 recs

And now, the Pipe Dream edition

CF Cunningham
LF Sweeney
RF Magglio Ordonez
DH Giambi
3B Barton (Yes, in our pipe dream world he successfully moves to 3B in the offseason/winter ball)
C1 Suzuki
SS Petit/Pennington
2B Pennington/Petit

Super Utility: Patterson

Rotation: Duke, Gallagher, Braden, 2 of Eveland/Smith/Outman

by mikev on Sep 17, 2008 8:28 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'm assuming Chavvy is still manning first in this scenario

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 17, 2008 8:35 AM PDT up 0 recs

Oops.

Yeah.

by mikev on Sep 17, 2008 8:41 AM PDT up 0 recs

I don't think the team believes Cunningham is a better CF than Sweeney

by thejd44 on Sep 17, 2008 9:28 AM PDT up 0 recs

Davis' defense is not enough

Davis’ offense is not enough to justify starting him in CF. If you want to use him as a defensive replacement/5th outfielder, who do you think needs replacing? My point is without Jack Cust in the outfield, none of our other outfielders for 2009 are defensive liabilities in the late innings and all are young enough to steal a base.

by Howzer on Sep 17, 2008 9:56 AM PDT 0 recs

Depends on what you think of his defense

He’s no worse offensively than Endy Chavez (probably better, actually), and Chavez is so good defensively (in center) that he would be a productive starter. I think Davis is just as good as Chavez defensively. The only area where I don’t think he’s essentially perfect is with his throwing arm.

by thejd44 on Sep 17, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'm not sure I'd go with perfect.

I’m no scout, but I don’t see his ability to read the ball off the bat at the Kotsay level. When I’ve seen him play, I haven’t noticed him getting huge jumps on where the ball will end up. And I remember a few instances of Vince and Ken saying that he initially broke in the wrong direction but was able to make up for it with his speed.

Physically, I agree, he’s pretty superb, but, mentally, I think there’s room to grow. Whether that would change with regular playing time is debatable. But this doesn’t change that, yes, he is the best defensive cf we have.

by WhiteElephants on Sep 17, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

3B Trade and SS Trade

Baisley and Crosby may have to be the answer for 1 or 2 years but if we can trade, let’s find a team that has a top 3B or SS prospect and has a desparate need for a “Closer.”

by Howzer on Sep 17, 2008 9:58 AM PDT 0 recs

I say we start out the year with Street closing.

intending to ultimately turn the rains over to Devine in hope that Street makes some noise and is trade able again. I mean I love ziggy, but I think it was pretty dumb to keep him in from an organizational point of view.

by mattman on Sep 18, 2008 6:52 AM PDT up 0 recs

Backup Catcher

Bowen is fine. Powell would be ok. No catcher can hit for a decent average if they only get into the lineup once a week. Whoever loses out becomes trade fodder. More important, if Suzuki goes down due to an injury, would you rather have Bowen or Powell as your starter?

by Howzer on Sep 17, 2008 10:00 AM PDT 0 recs

Powell.

He’s got way more upside so it’d be good to see what he can do in a year that right now looks like another rebuilding one.

Plus I’m still holding out for him to be a fully healthy and productive regular. His ceiling is supposed to higher than Zooks’ offensively and defensively. If he could actually pull this off, Suzuki would be a very valuable trade chip right now; but those chances are looking pretty slim.

by WhiteElephants on Sep 17, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

Another question:

Has anyone seen Cardenas play the field? Is he good enough to stick at SS, or is he destined for 2B?

by danmerqury on Sep 17, 2008 10:56 AM PDT 0 recs

cardenas

sickles’ texas league source says cardenas has looked good, rarely any mistakes…goldstein says he lacks range (he said the same about jed lowrie, who has looked good defensively)

by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 17, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up 0 recs

Davis looks like Christenson 2.0

In that, on a successful team, that’s probably how he should be deployed – late inning defensive work. And he was only around to caddy for Ben Grieve. Once they got rid of him Christenson was gone quickly. That being said, Denorfia isn’t going to pan out either. I’ll quote the saying: If Davis or Denorfia is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question. They’re both cheap in 2009 and I’d guess that Denorfia probably has the most “upside”, so I’d go with him.

by jdr on Sep 18, 2008 11:59 AM PDT 0 recs