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Monday's Minute-to-Midnight Minor League Musings: The Prospects of Attrition

When you look at an organization’s bevy of prospects you have to accept that some of them, probably as many as half of them, will not qualify for similar consideration a year later. Injuries, poor performance, promotions and trades will exact a toll on any prospect list. Heading into the 2008 season the Oakland A’s had 13 grade B- or better prospects in their organization, using John Sickels’ method of grading. I prefer his way at grading prospects because a B-grade prospect in one system is held in the same regard as a B-grade prospect in another system. (And I’m making the cut-off for quality of prospect a B- because when I was a kid in school that was the lowest grade I could get and not get a talking to from my parents.) During the season Beane traded for 5 more B-grade prospects in the Harden/Gaudin and Blanton deals.

Star-divide

We just heard Mr. Sickels discuss the state of the A’s farm system in an interview with Lord Blez. He gives the A’s credit for turning around a desolate farm system and fielding a group of prospects that are in the discussion for the title of best in the minor leagues. But the names will have radically changed from the list Mr. Sickels printed less then a year ago.

 

2008

 

Brett Anderson   (B+)

Andrew Bailey   (B-)

Daric Barton   (B+)

Corey Brown   (B-)

Trevor Cahill   (B)

Chris Carter   (B+)

Aaron Cunningham   (B-)

Fautino De Los Santos   (B+)

Sean Doolittle   (B-)

Carlos Gonzalez   (B+)

Gio Gonzalez   (B+)

Henry Rodriguez   (B)

James Simmons   (B)

 

2008 In-Season Trades

 

Josh Donaldson   (B)

Sean Gallagher   (B)

Eric Patterson   (B)

Adrian Cardenas   (B)

Josh Outman   (B)

 

Daric Barton, Carlos Gonzalez and Sean Gallagher will not be included in the 2009 list as they have too much time in the big leagues. It’s doubtful that Gio Gonzalez will pitch the necessary 20 innings to go over the rookie limit but his struggles in the Show and with commanding the strike zone in AAA will probably cause his B+ grade to drop to a B. Eric Patterson will probably have enough at bats by the end of the season to lose his rookie eligibility and if he doesn’t his big league performance would probably cause him to drop into the B-/C+ range. Sickels mentioned in his chat that he’d probably grade Donaldson a C+ next time around but I’m going to show you some numbers in a bit that, combined with a strong showing in the Arizona Fall League, could raise that C+ to a B-.

 

Fautino De Los Santos blew out his elbow and will probably miss a portion of next season. In the past Sickels has dropped even the best pitching prospects a full grade if they go under the knife and I assume that will happen in DLS’s case. Andrew Bailey is almost certain to drop from a B- to a C+ because of his struggles as a SP in AA and subsequent conversion to the bullpen. Henry Rodriguez has more stuff then Bailey but his struggles in AA were even worse than his teammate’s. He too will probably see his grade drop but I’m hoping it’ll only drop to a B-. Still, it’s not inconceivable that 8 of the 18 names above will not be in next year’s list of B- or better prospects.

 

Not that it’s all doom-and-gloom. In fact, there’s a lot more to be happy about then sad. Brett Anderson, Trevor Cahill and Chris Carter all have a good chance at seeing their grades raised to A- or maybe even a full A. (The last is kinda doubtful, but what the Hell, why not think positive?) Vincent Mazzaro is almost certain to jump from his 2008 C grade to at least a B- while Sam Demel and Matt Sulentic could also see something in the B-range. (Quick tangent: I figure one of Demel or Carignan is a lock for a B- or above grade, I’m choosing the guy with more strike outs and the better ground ball ratio.) I’m not sure how Sickels is going to grade Inoa, probably not very high (I’m guessing C+) because he’s always been hesitant when grading prospects that haven’t played in the States. The 2008 draft class has 4 candidates for B- or better grades in Rashun Dixon, Jason Christian, Jemile Weeks and Jeremy Barfield. But conservatively speaking the A’s could go into next season with another 12-13 grade B- and better prospects in the organization. That’s very good as most systems struggle to field 10 prospects of that caliber.

 

So if you ever run across a muppet suggesting the A’s trade a few of these guys to fill a big league hole don’t be alarmed and worry that the farm system is about to be gutted, ‘cause that just ain’t the truth of the situation.

 

Now I’d be remiss if I went any longer on this minor league report and failed to congratulate the Sacramento River Cats and the Stockton Ports for winning their respective league championships. So congratulations guys and I hope you got to drink some quality champagne, because the cheap stuff gives you an awful headache! Tuesday night the River Cats play the International League champion Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees in a one game play-off to determine who’s the top dog in AAA. ESPN2 will televise the game at 5 PM PST, so if you’ve got the beer you might as well sit down and enjoy the game.

 

Moving on to the Stockton Ports, I wanted to focus on three players who formed the heart of the Port’s line-up: Chris Carter, Corey Brown and Josh Donaldson. Donaldson and Brown split the season between the Midwest League and the California League and I wanted to include their postseason performance into the overall mix to see how they did on the year. I include Chris Carter into the mix because saying he hit 44 homeruns for Stockton sounds sexier then he hit 39 homeruns.

 

Chris Carter:  44 AB  14 Hits, 3 Doubles, 1 Triple, 5 HR  9/14 BB/K  318/434/773

 

Including the play-offs, Carter hit 264/368/585 with 35 Doubles, 5 Triples, 44 HR, 86 walks and 170 strike outs in 550 at bats. The Cal League is a hitter’s league but that kind of power production is for real, especially coming from a 21 year old. I’m not sure what position he’ll end up playing (it won’t be 3B) but he’s got a chance to be special, especially if he can get a bit more control over the strike zone.

 

Corey Brown: 45 AB  8 Hits, 3 Doubles, 1 HR  5/23 BB/K  178/260/311

 

Brown is a notorious streak hitter and he was fairly cold through the play-offs. His combined numbers between the Midwest and Cal leagues reads 259/338/494 with 30 Doubles, 2 Triples, 31 HR, 63 walks and 191 strike outs in 541 at bats. Brown was also 16 for 17 on stolen base attempts. Corey offers huge power and serious offensive potential but he must make more contact or he will almost certainly flame out.

 

Josh Donaldson: 46 AB  19 Hits, 4 Doubles, 1 Triple, 4 HR  10/6 BB/K  413/518/804

 

If you thought Carter was hot in the play-offs he had nothing on Donaldson. The 22 year old catcher destroyed the opponent’s pitching and it’s this performance, combined with what I hope will be a fully successful AFL stint, which will keep Donaldson from dropping all the way to a C+. Donaldson’s play-off numbers combine with his regular season production to create a 281/349/480 line with 30 Doubles, 3 Triples, 19 HR, 44 walks and 76 strike outs in 469 at bats. C’mon John, that’s gotta be worth a B- grade!

 

At some point Taj and I will sit down and do a positional depth chart for the Oakland organization. Instructional League is about to start, then the AFL and the Hawaiian Winter League kick into gear so we should have plenty to talk about through December. But if you’ve got any ideas or suggestions about what you’d like to see from the Minor League Musing Staff go ahead and let us know. We’re perfectly capable of ignoring even the most sensible of suggestions.

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Sorry folks

Some formatting issues forced me to post 3 minutes later then intended.

There’s just no truth in advertising anymore, is there?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 16, 2008 12:03 AM PDT   0 recs

how back-tested is this system?

How predictive of future success is this system? Did it rate an Eric Chavez, Rich Harden, Dan Haren at A/A- ? And the rating of Daric Barton as B+, coupled with this years’ troubles for him, make me suspect this rating system.

The rating system sounds like the bond rating system in today’s financial markets – only after some huge performance difference from expected value will the rating agency make a change. Better late than never?

by rollierollieOxenfree on Sep 16, 2008 12:35 AM PDT   0 recs

Hindsight, much?

Daric Barton was a consensus top 50 prospect before this season, which roughly corresponds to the B+ nomenclature.

He had Harden as the #3 pitching prospect in 2003. Didn’t have Haren on his top 50, though. Again, that’s not really a huge surprise as Haren was considered something of a throw-in to the Mulder trade.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 1:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Another B- possibility

what about Tyson Ross?

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Sep 16, 2008 12:35 AM PDT   0 recs

Sickels

…Doesn’t like Ross. The Mechanics Issue is a big one for me, too. I just don’t see him lasting long in Pro-Ball w/o adjusting things (and it doesn’t sound like A’s Brass is too eager to make the necessary changes, but one can hope). That shoulder will not last.

by Colorado Fan on Sep 16, 2008 1:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Prospect Thread

I might as well ask here what people around baseball generally think about Anthony Recker? I’ve been following him since his draft, he had a pretty peculiar season:

http://firstinning.com/players/Anthony-Recker-a/

He had a decent season, though maybe not showing quite as much power as hoped: In 30 ab’s, he hit .274/.344/.437, with a 43:140 BB/K ratio. 11 homers, 29 doubles and 4 triples. Oddly he had an amazing 25% LDP, which leads to the .384 BABIP. Was the fact that he struck out far too much to be able to put the ball in play that effectively but still have a .274 average?

the problem is not "too many left handed hitters" but "too many suck handed hitters"-Zonis

by ohad on Sep 16, 2008 1:00 AM PDT   0 recs

My take: Recker is Rob Bowen with a slight sacrifice of defense for power

Similar player overall, though. Should be a solid backup catcher in MLB.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 1:13 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Gio will not be rookie-eligible next year

Keep in mind that there are two criteria— IP/AB and service days. He’s going to have more than 45 service days.

I had 16 B-grade guys on my midseason list. One of those, Gio, graduated. Donaldson and Matt Spencer both went on torrential hot streaks to try to push themselves into that group; I guess everyone can make up their own minds where they stand on the issue. I think I’d push Donaldson to a B- and Spencer to a C+. Otherwise most of the upper-level guys pretty much held their positions down the stretch. I think the three guys that I had on the list that grover projects might not get B- grades are (were) DLS, Inoa and Leon— all pitchers, all non-American, all somewhat of wild cards at this point.

It’s a pretty amazing system, as the C+ grades (guys with a legit chance to be more than a roleplayer) probably run 30 or more deep at this point. A bunch of guys I did not have as C+s at midseason turned it on down the stretch of the season.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 1:11 AM PDT   0 recs

Clearification

Sickels doesn’t use service days to determine eligibility. He just goes by IP and AB. It’s a bit of a cheat but when you’re looking at 1000+ guys you take short-cuts like that.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 16, 2008 1:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A question for the more knowledgeable ANers

Can anyone give me the run down on J.D. Pruitt?

Sorry if this has already been touched on but, I follow this site pretty closely, have seen him mentioned once, maybe twice this season, and he’s caught my attention. I’m not suggesting he should be anywhere near this list of prospects; I realize his age and small sample-size keep him off. But that OBP is pretty remarkable, and this year he’s even put up decent AVG. and SLG. numbers, though in only 120+ ABs.

Questions:

Why has he missed playing time? Injuries? or is he a bench player?

How does he draw so many walks? Is it that he’s 5’9’’ and pulls a Rickey-like squat to shrink his strike-zone? Or has he figured out a way to foul-off strikes until he walks? It can’t be that pitchers are pitching him carefully.

What are the chances of this ability to get on base transferring to higher levels?

Would you take over or under a 2% chance of him someday putting on white cleats for at least one game?

for those who are curious:
2007 at low A in 180ABs: 211 / 460 / 311 / 771
2008 at low A in 124ABs: 282 / 486 / 444 / 930
Born: March 11, 1985

by WhiteElephants on Sep 16, 2008 2:08 AM PDT   0 recs

Take a closer look

His OBP is buoyed by his 89 walks— but you don’t get to a .249 isolated OBP with walks. Just doesn’t happen, even in short season ball. He’s been hit by 45 pitches in his short (about 2/3 of an MLB season) career. Obviously, that’s insanely high- I’d be surprised if 45 was not already above the MLB record, and that’s in 440 PA.

That’s likely an “ability” which has some carryover; HBP is a pretty consistent skill at the MLB level (see Carlos Quentin, Craig Biggio, etc). However, it’s likely to drop against pitchers with better control unless he can punish them for putting the ball over the plate.

And the other problem with being hit by pitches is… well, it hurts. He missed a good chunk of this year after getting beaned in the wrong spot.

I think he’s an interesting carnival sideshow, and the development of his hitting game means he probably has a future with the organization, but I don’t see how he ever plays in the Show.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 8:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

knowing nothing about him...

5’9" OF = steve stanley with hbps?

at least now the a’s are drafting these guys in the 23rd round instead of the 2nd round…

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2008 9:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Height right, weight not so much

Stanley was tiny— 155 pounds. Pruitt is 40 pounds heavier.

I guess there’s more of him to hit.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 12:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Missed one

Joey Devine was still eligible under Sickels’ method and he was a B prospect heading into 2008. That means the A’s had 14 B- or better prospects at the start of the year. Devine has finally pitched enough innings that he will not qualify for Sickels’ list in 2009.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 16, 2008 6:48 AM PDT   0 recs

Prospects

No way will Barfield rate as a B-. I would guess he would be a C, maybe a C+ if Sickels is feeling generous. I can’t see Christian as higher than a C+ either. Brett Hunter might have had injury issues but he is a much better prospect than those two. Also there is not much chance of Carter having his grade raised – Sickels classed him as a B/B+ prospect in one of his recent articles.

by DeJay on Sep 16, 2008 7:09 AM PDT   0 recs

Couple More Who Might Be Borderline C+ / B-

Jared Lansford (21 Years Old) – Made great strides this year. He was in Hawaii last offseason, Then Stockton, the Midland, then Sacramento. He might even get some time in tonight’s AAA-Championship game. The sinker looks to be getting into Trevor Cahill range – 70% GB over 25.2 Innings in Midland. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Lansford shifted back to Midland’s Starting Rotation next season.

Carlos Hernandez (21 Years Old) – Another guy who has made some jumps this season. Starting the year in Vancouver, then promoted to Kane County, then promoted to Stockton and threw a couple very solid starts during the Ports Championship run.

Alex Leon (19 Years Old) – He was solid until a July 26th game where he gave up 4ER over 1 IP – He didn’t pitch again after that… any word on the injury front (PT)? Future Starter?

by Colorado Fan on Sep 16, 2008 12:24 PM PDT   0 recs

No, no injury

just the end of the season. The Mexican League starts and ends earlier than the affiliated minors.

The A’s have said that they see him as a starter in future. I’d definitely class him as a B-level prospect— I mean, if you think of him as “a 20-year-old draftee who has already pitched successfully to a bundle of older hitters”, how is that not worth a B- at least? The Mexican League is not an easy place to pitch at all, and he’s basically shredded it (granted, out of the pen) for two seasons running.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 16, 2008 12:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

alex leon

i assume that’s arnold leon and not another a’s sibling like ryan doolittle and juston street…

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 17, 2008 1:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

his name is alex arnold leon

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Sep 17, 2008 10:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What about this Brett Hunter kid?

You didn’t mention him in the possible B- prospects of this years draft..

by NateHST on Sep 16, 2008 12:47 PM PDT   0 recs

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