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Rich Harden and the Cubs - Are they hiding an injury?

This fanpost may not be directly-related to the Athletics at this moment, but I think Rich Harden's career with the Cubs is definitely a subject of interest for most of us here at AN. His performance this year, especially with the Cubs, is what I think A's fans have been dreaming of from him for the past several years. However, the behavior of Cubs management recently has me wondering if he may not be entirely healthy. Note that this post was not intended to discuss the trade itself. I think an injury to Rich Harden may change a few minds about his trade, but this post is intended merely for discussing his health and future implications.

Star-divide

Since being traded to the Cubs, Harden has been utterly dominant, putting up a 1.65 ERA through 60 innings and 10 starts. He has 78 strikeouts compared to 19 walks, and only 11 earned runs. In 8 out of his 10 starts, he earned only 1 run or less. Most incredible about this, I think, is the fact that he only has 5 wins.

As we here all know, Rich Harden has a long and detailed list of injury woes. However, for the Cubs this year he was able to string together 9 straight starts until the Cubs gave him an "extended breather" on August 29th. He made his return last night, September 11th.

A breather itself is relatively benign. After all, the Cubs are essentially guaranteed a playoff spot at this point, and given Harden's past it may not be a bad idea to give him a rest now and then. However, 13 days is essentially a stint on the DL.

I had a particular interest in his return last night because I am from St. Louis, it was a Cardinals/Cubs rivalry, and Rich Harden was by far my most-loved and most-hated A's pitcher. Harden's performance, however, was disturbing.

Toward the tail end of his time in Oakland we saw Harden's velocity diminish slightly, from regularly hitting 96-97 to 91-93ish. Last night, however, was downright bad. His fastball was barely hitting 90, and was regularly sitting around 88. His changeup, however, complemented his fastball fairly well at around 77-78. His GO/AO was exceptionally low, at about 1:4... as it has been all year. His strikeouts were way down as well, as he only mustered 3.  On paper, however, he was still effective; he only gave up 2 runs, 5 hits, and walked 1. I think part of his effectiveness may have been in the hitter's expectation's. The Cardinals were repeatedly out in front against Harden, clearly expecting harder stuff. I know one game is an incredibly small sample size, but the pitching stats aren't the issue here. The issue is the huge deviation in his pitch speeds from what he was displaying earlier this year and has showed throughout his career.

So what I'm wondering is.... why has Harden's fastball diminished so much over the past few months? Is it an indicator that he is hurting? Is it an indicator that he may been testing a new pitching strategy?

Note:

MLB.com story on Harden's Return

"Harden has been surprised at the constant questions about his status."

0 recs  |  Comment 17 comments

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I have been watching Harden very closely this year

And have watched every pitch of all his Cubs starts (as well as all his A’s starts).

He’s an interesting one, no?

It’s a little tough to figure him out right now: Is he TRYING to pitch softer, or does he HAVE to pitch softer?

This has been an issue for a long time. I recently bought a 2005 issue of Athletics Magazine that has a feature on Rich. In it, he talks about the fact that he only recently became a pitcher and used to think that he had to throw every pitch as hard as possible. He said that he was just learning that taking something off can be effective, and that his goal was to rely more on location & movement rather than speed. Learning to PITCH and not just throw hard.

He continues to talk just like this in recent interviews. As in quote from last night:

[When asked about his low velocity]: “Who cares?” Harden asked. “I don’t know why everybody puts so much on velocity. The most important thing is the change of speeds. I’ve realized that this year. I used to rear back and try to put everything I had on every pitch.”

Rich knows that taking something off on velocity will help him preserve his arm. If he can manage to keep velocity down AND still get outs based on stuff/movement/location/speed change, he absolutely will do it.

But DO we believe him that he really HAS the high-90’s stuff in his back pocket and CAN use it when he needs it? I somewhat believe him: In his last August start, he was keeping everything high 80s / low 90s, but for special situations (out pitches), he would dial it to 96/97. He also finished that night strong with all high-90’s velocities on his final 5 or so pitches. That leads me to believe he can still hit those speeds, but prefers not to when he doesn’t have to.

Did he have that extra gear LAST night? I’m not sure that he did. I think I saw him hit 94 once, and nothing above it. That might be some cause for concern, but then again, he had just had the 12 days off and maybe that threw him off a little. It’s hard to say whether the extra rest is to blame, or an injury. Could be either one. I’m sure time will tell us.

Another issue – Strikeouts. Yes, he had far fewer strikeouts last night (3) than the 10-11 per night he was pulling off in his first few Cubs starts. But is he TRYING to do that? When he gets a lot of strikeouts, it drives up his pitch count very quickly and limits him to only about 5 innings of work. I think he’s said he TRIES to get outs other ways in order to keep the pitch count down and stay in the game longer. Also, he’s less likely to be able to rack up those strikeouts if he’s not gonna use his heater. If he CAN get outs consistently in non-strikeout ways, it would serve him well to do so.

In conclusion – Right now, it’s hard to tell how much of his recent changes have been done on purpose, and how much have been necessitated by a current injury. I think it’s a mixture of the two, but time will tell…

by schmifty on Sep 12, 2008 1:02 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Great summary schmifty!

I have not watched all of his pitches this year, but I am inclined to believe that Rich is learning how to be more effective on the mound with location and changing speeds instead of relying on the heater.

His small frame and the torque that his explosive pitching style took on his body as an A, simply could not be sustainable. I would submit that if Rich can contiune to evolve into a location and change of speed pitcher he will be a MORE deadly pitcher than he already is. Time will tell of course.

I think the mental angle is to be explored as well. Competitors like Harden do not want to sit on the bench or be in constant rehab sessions. They want to pitch. I would assume since it became apparent that his body could not handle the torque that he DID have to change his pitching mechanics/style in order to stay in games.

Count me as a Rich Harden fan and I wish him all the best (and will follow his career) as a Cubbie.

"RIP: UserID: 517"

by Masaryk on Sep 12, 2008 1:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Another point I forgot to mention..

He only threw 86 pitches last night, which is tied for his season low.

To be honest, I don’t think we’ll get a definitive answer on Rich Harden till October rolls in. He’ll certain be in some high-leverage situations, and I highly doubt they’ll give their best pitcher a day off. I’d be interested to see if he is, in fact, capable of dialing it up to 96-97 still.

by VORP is too nerdy on Sep 12, 2008 2:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I had the good fortune to speak with Rich a few times

once during his rookie season (he started a converstion with me, and I though he was a ballboy at first!) I really like him and have always been a fan.

I think he’s learned to be a pitcher rather than a thrower. When he gets lots of strikeouts he doesn’t get deep into games, so it doesn’t surprise me that he may be trying to change that.

And who knows? He may be going through a bit of dead arm — since he’s so rarely had this many starts in a season he usually hasn’t had a chance to go through the dea arm period.

by OaklandSi on Sep 12, 2008 3:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's hard to say if he can throw the heat right now

but if I’m the Cubs, I’d be doing exactly as they are doing, and that’s babying Harden. Treat that glass arm carefully, because if it’s at full strength for the playoffs you can probably ride it to a WS ring. And if I’m Harden, I’d be testing out my soft stuff, just to see if it can get hitters out. So maye he’s hurt, but maybe not.
… and if not, then how incredible is he? He’s essentially toying ML hitters in a pennant race and still beating them. I want to believe that he’s using this period as a warmup for the real season, which starts in October. If he has even marginal success throwing in the 80’s and low 90’s for a few weeks in September, hitters will have no idea what to expect in the playoffs. They’ll be facing a devastating sinkerball pitcher with an out pitch like … Rich Harden’s fastball!

by iceplant on Sep 12, 2008 3:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs have a 99+% chance of making the playoffs, so rarely using him and only letting him throw 86 pitches is fine. That is not indicative of a problem; it’s just smart to save his fragile arm for games that matter.

What should be worrisome is the velocity drop. When he was going well with the Cubs he was around 94. That’s the “not putting everything into one pitch” Harden that’s very, very good. But last night was something else. Maybe it was a bit of rust from not pitching for two weeks. I have no idea. But really, the Cubs only need to squeeze another month out of him. If they win the World Series with/because of Harden, they could’ve given up every single player in every level of the minors and it would be worth it to that organization (yeah, hyperbole, but it’s honestly not too far from the truth).

by thejd44 on Sep 12, 2008 3:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, if he gets hurt if they keep him on regular work

and rusty if they rest him, they’re kinda between a rock and a hard place with Harden.

The other problem for the Cubs is that the playoffs are no longer a sprint – they’re more like an 800m race. Rich might need to make 5 or 6 postseason starts. Can he go from occasional work in Sept to that kind of intensity over that many starts?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Sep 12, 2008 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Read this...

http://www.athleticsnation.com/2008/9/2/606609/here-we-go

imho, it’s arm fatigue because he hasn’t reached this many innings pitched in a while.

"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."

"any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us."

by ST on Sep 12, 2008 10:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Applying my patented "Rich Harden will always do whatever makes more money for Rich Harden" theory,

I’m guessing that he is not faking this or “taking something off his pitches.” Harden doesn’t have a guaranteed payday for next year, so it’s important for him to put up the public show that he is not injury-prone and everyone should lay off him and it’s going to be fine, really and it’s just frustrating. It’s something, at any rate.

Whether it is a significant injury or just “minor soreness” remains to be seen. It’s highly likely that he will attempt to pitch through it even if he is really hurt to secure that option, so if the Cubs care at all about getting something out of him next year, they’d better make sure their team doctors clear him for duty.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 12, 2008 11:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's a good point, but with that in mind..

It would make sense that he could be taking it easy to sort of “save himself” for the post-season. Imagine what it would do for his career if he dominated for the Cubs in the playoffs on a national scale. Jeff Weaver had a horrible, HORRIBLE season in 2006 (and beyond, as it turned out) yet he managed to string a couple of good games together in the post-season with the Cardinals, and they won the World Series. In the offseason, he was rewarded with a large contract (given his performance) by the Mariners. Yes, I know it’s the Mariners I’m talking about, but Rich Harden certainly has better track record and far, far more upside than Jeff Weaver. My point is, he could be angling for dominance in the playoffs infront of a national audience.

by VORP is too nerdy on Sep 13, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto Jeff Suppan

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 13, 2008 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Jason Marquis, to an extent

 Yay 2006 Cardinals.

I see the future. I see cake.

by Blicks on Sep 14, 2008 5:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The irony of Jason Marquis..

is that he sucked hardcore in 2006. I mean, he was worse than Jeff Weaver. He didn’t even PITCH in the 2006 playoffs, but this didn’t prevent the Cubs from handing him 10 million a year. Now he’s essentially a 6th starter.

by VORP is too nerdy on Sep 14, 2008 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, Jeff Suppan has had a very long career being incredibly average.

He doesn’t deserve $25 million over the next two seasons, but he’d be a decent guy to have at the back end of a rotation.

by thejd44 on Sep 15, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

Suppan was never a bad pitcher. He was an average to slighty above average innings eater, ideal for the 3rd or 4th spot in a rotation. He was actually pretty decent, unlike Marquis or Weaver. I’m not sure that his excellent post-season performance really propelled him toward getting a big contract in the offseason; he was probably going to get a decent payday anyway. As I recall, the 2006-2007 offseason was a pretty weak FA class. Gary Mathews Jr., Juan Pierre, and Alfonso Soriano got absolutely massive paydays.. not to mention Zito. I’m not at all surprised Suppan got a big payday.

The primary difference between Suppan and Marquis/Weaver, though, is that Suppan was a decent pitcher and got a big payday. Marquis and Weaver were terrible and still got paid well.

by VORP is too nerdy on Sep 15, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I enjoyed the Cubs-Sox interleague series at the Cell this season

I remember turning to my (Cardinals fan) friend during the last game of that series and saying something around “Wow, they should actually have let Marquis pitch”

Dempster pitched the first game. Got bombed.
Someone not named Marquis pitched the second game. Did ehh(decent amount of innings, but lots of runs. Offense kept it close), but then Marmol got it.
Someone else (Marshall?) pitched Game 3. Quality start, offense svcked.

I see the future. I see cake.

by Blicks on Sep 15, 2008 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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