Although it most likely puts Carbenas definitievly in the mix.

and yes he does look good, but you must remember that the Stockton Ports park is TINY, so his HR’s are definitely inflated. Also, his BA isn’t all that great and he strikes out a lot. He could be a great player, but he is definitely no sure thing, and I don’t think trading him would be all that terrible. However, i wouldn’t want to include him and cardenas together.

It was “proof enough” that his shoulder is healthy despite not having surgery. He wasn’t using the small sample size as proof of his overall ability, but just that he’s healthy. This is one case where the sample size really is useful because it’s the time when you’d expect the injury to have an effect on his play.

As far as the trade goes, Bowden may be tough to work with but I also think he’s a pretty dumb GM. I’m not sure Cardenas would have to be in the deal. I think the Mystery A-ball pticher, Mazzaro, Rodriguez, and one of the more toolsy guys in the minors (Corey Brown, perhaps) might be enough. Maybe give them Eric Patterson because he’s kind of the type of player Bowden likes. This might end up not being enough, but I don’t think you have to give up a lot to get Zimmerman, just the right pieces that might seem like a lot.

My max package is less then Arizona gave up to acquire Haren. What am I willing to give up? A 1B who spent 2008 in High-A, a 2B who spent most of the year in High-A, a SP who’s clearly 3rd best on the prospect chart, a guy who’s never played for the org and a power arm who hasn’t found the strike zone outside of A-ball. All that, and there is serious potential in that group, for a major league proven gold glove caliber 3B with 20+ HR power. Who, by the way, hasn’t even hit his prime.

And as thejd44 pointed out, I was referring to Zimmerman being over his shoulder problem when I posted his August+ stats.

Beltre is currently making $12 million a year and will make that amount again in 2009. He turns 30 next April, so realistically you’re talking he’s 31 when he starts his next contract. You honestly think Beltre, who will argueably be the best FA 3B on the 2010 market, is only going to get a $1 million annual raise? And only 3 years? I don’t think you thought that contract through.

And it’s also your belief that a 30 year old Beltre will continue to out-produce a 24 year old Zimmerman as the years progress? Very interesting if highly unlikely.

Oh, Zimmerman’s shoulder is healthy. Young guys tend to recover from minor injuries.

Furthermore, the defensive stats I have say Zimmerman was a much better defender last year (I don’t have any data for 2008) to the tune of 14 runs saved. According to THT’s RZR Beltre was a better defender in 2006 but Zimmerman ranked higher in ‘07 and Beltre has a slight edge this year. Any way you cut it, Zimmerman’s youth means he’s more likely to improve or at least maintain his defensive ability over the next 5 years.

You complain/worry about the package. It’s a smaller package then the one the A’s got for Haren! Furthermore, that’s the absolute high end of what it could cost. The guy I talked to at Fedarl Baseball thought Mr. Doe/Mazzaro/Barton might get a deal done… which I still think is a little low but would be more then willing to go with if that’s what the Nationals wanted!

And the 30 seasons stuff… you think every A’s prospect is going to hit? A year ago I very much doubt you were singing the praises of Mazzaro. You may have been proclaiming the soon-to-be greatness of Andrew Bailey, but I’m willing to guess you weren’t thinking such warm and fuzzy thoughts about Mazzaro. I like all these guys in the A’s organization (except for Mr. Doe, he’s a jerk) but they are prospects, not proven big league ballplayers. Mazzaro’s the only one who’s had any real success above A-ball so a lot can still go wrong with these guys. Sometimes you have to trade potential for actual ability.

I think this is one of those times.

Looking at his numbers in Seattle, I’m still struggling with the notion that all that great. In four years with Seattle, his OPS+ has been 93, 105, 112, and 111. Very mehverage numbers for a 3B. Yes, he has a good glove, but offensively, he’s Eric Chavez—and I mean the JV version that played from 2005-2007 (108, 105, 102). Beltre’s highest OBP as a Mariner, posted this year, is .329.

Zimmerman’s numbers are about the same, too, although you have to wonder how much playing for the Nationals has to do with that. Beltre’s actually had some offensive help as a Mariner.

Anyway, I don’t have any better ideas, so I’ll shut up now.

The young guys might be good in the future but that’s all speculation…Zimmerman can help the team in 2009. I can’t stand the thought of another year like this one. Sign Zimmerman ASAP!

Cardenas is one of the best 2nd base prospects in all the minor leagues(might be able to shift to either SS or 3B) and Carter, although he can’t field at all, is a BIG time power/rbi prospect that the A’s haven’t had for a long time. I believe that you can place these two guys alongside Cahill and Anderson as untouchable prospects and we might be adding Donaldson to that list soon. I hope Beane let’s this group grow together.

I would also like to see Barton take a stab at 3B, he has a cannon of an arm and is still young enough to make the transition. This would free up 1st base for Carter/Doolittle long term and Chavez for the short term. I also like the idea of Suzuki moving to 2b, freeing up the catcher position for Donaldson and saving Kurt’s legs for the long haul.

I like Zimmerman but he certainly isn’t worth 4-5 prospects- especially not the ones mentioned in this post.

Its much harder to find a 2B that can hit than a 3B.

but Swisher was signed to a very good contract.

That being said I would be willing to trade this for Zimmerman no problem. I think Cardenas should pretty much be off limits.

Although I wouldn’t be broken hearted if it did.

Think of the probabilities as a bell curve ranging from complete recovery as 3B on one end and career over on the other end. In the middle is move to 1B or DH. One’s expectation is a measure of one’s optimism, but most of us are guessing somewhere in the middle. Chavez’s own words sound pretty pessimistic, but then he usually does.

The info I have suggests Zimmerman is interested in signing a contract that would run through his arby eligible years. If you have info that says otherwise then please share it. If you DON’T have info that contradicts mine you can’t just ignore what I’ve already said on this subject.

I advocate trading for Zimmerman and signing him to a contract which keeps him with the A’s for 5 years, not 3.

I think people are worried about (a) overpaying for a non-elite player, and (b) trading some of our higher-ceiling prospects in the deal. You can’t be projecting specific holes to be filled 3 years down the line, either way — and we’ve all bemoaned the lack of high-ceiling guys in the A’s system.

Rookie year to slight Sophmore slump to banged up for the first 4 months. I predict that by the end of the season his OPS+ will be higher then his 2007 number.

Which would hopefully make him an easier sell to AN.

i’m excited that he is figuring it out this season…i don’t think i made solid contact once off him in jc ball

If he didn’t suck.

I do believe that Street could net more then Mr. Doe, its just that the extra piece or pieces weren’t relevant to this discussion.

… we’d lose the X factor.

Again, this is coming from the Washington side of this discussion, but getting that pre-08 Anderson clone was THE key to doing a deal in his mind. Maybe Bowden has a completely different take on this and a deal could happen with players already in the organization.

I don’t include Carter and Cardenas unless I’m getting a quality 3B in the process because I think that’s the position he’ll end up at if he makes the Show.

Seriously, what has Cardenas done to make him so untouchable? He slugged .399 this year and that number dropped off once he left the FSL for the Cal League and later Midland.

Zimmerman’s somewhere in between and so is Grover’s proposal.

Street doesn’t get traded to the Nationals, he gets dealt for prospects to some other team and one of those new guys gets shipped to Washington. It’s a 3-way trade without me going into specifics.

You say Carter is needed for power, a week ago I was arguing that the A’s should go out and BUY that power on the FA market. You know the difference between Chris Carter and Adam Dunn? Dunn has actually hit 39 HRs in the big leagues.

“I’d trade Zimmerman for A) Mazzaro or Simmons, B) Patterson or Cunningham or Sweeney and C) Street or Henry Rodriguez.”

Mazzaro, Sweeney , and H-rod I’d do in a heartbeat. Throw in Outman if you have to.

To give up Carter, Cardenas, Buck, Mazzaro, and Rodriguez for Zimmerman would be insanely retarded though.

… it doesn