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Street wants his job back, Brown is unhappy

Ziegler160px_tiny by Flashfire on

News tidbits today.  First, Street:

Street, the A's closer most of the past three years, has retired 18 of the past 19 batters he has faced. His velocity is back up in the 93 mph range, and his slider is sharp. He believes he can be effective in save situations again.

"I'm looking to hopefully get some chances," Street said. "I haven't expressed that directly to them, but that was the whole reason I was taken out of the role, to return to form. And the last nine innings have indicated I've returned to form."

Street wants job back, but he can't have it - by SuSlu

Street's doing better, yes.  I actually do think the team should let him close again especially if they have visions of moving him via trade.  If he gets it done then all is well.  Of course, there's also the risk that he blows a few more.  I wouldn't give him the job completely but I'd use him in a few situations.  I'd also use Devine in a few before the season is over.

As for Brown:

After starting 54 of the A's first 60 games, the outfielder has started just 41 of the past 77 games. That leaves him puzzled, considering he's still second on the team with 13 home runs and 58 RBI.

(snip)

"These guys probably wish they never even signed me. That makes two of us," Brown said before the game.

Despite the inflammatory words, Brown by all accounts has been a good teammate this season. He hasn't visibly sulked around the clubhouse.

(snip)

Said Brown, "It doesn't seem like I'm getting real opportunities. ... I don't have a lot of margin for error. It's tough playing like that."

Brown is down on situation - by Joe Stiglich

 

Hey, what did you expect, Emil?  You were brought in for various reasons but you hit LHP much better than RHP, the season is at the point where it's worth more to see some of the kids get a chance to play, and you're not part of the team's future.  If you didn't have an idea of that coming into the season when you signed the one-year deal, whose fault is that?

At least he's right about the 'wish they never signed me' part.

(The 'stop whining' tag is for Brown)

 

 

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that's the most ridiculous thing ever

the brown part

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Sep 1, 2008 4:12 PM PDT   0 recs

That's what she said.

Unfortunately.

"God doesn't pay attention to your cute little hypotheticals." -- Jeff from LL

by oblique on Sep 2, 2008 5:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Letting Street close for the remainder of the season might be a good idea

It drums up his trade value. Several teams need closers (Cardinals, Tigers, Rangers, DBacks if Lyon walks, Brewers, Padres if Hoffman retires, Indians), the list goes on.

I see the future. I see cake.

by Blicks on Sep 1, 2008 4:47 PM PDT   0 recs

+1

I honestly wouldn’t mind seeing the kid come back, either. Either way, the A’s don’t need to worry about winning games right now, so give him the chance to reestablish some value.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Sep 1, 2008 8:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

"These guys probably wish they never even signed me. That makes two of us"

did any other teams even try to sign emil brown?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 1, 2008 4:47 PM PDT   0 recs

Probably as a bench player, but I doubt anything more than that.

Wasn’t this guy cut by Kansas City?

I see the future. I see cake.

by Blicks on Sep 1, 2008 4:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He was nontendered, yeah...

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 5:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think a couple other teams did try....

The A's colors are green and gold.

by mikeA on Sep 1, 2008 4:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well we know what normally happens to guys who complain about PT

Brad Halsey (does anyone know what happened to him recently?), MB, and Chad. Then again for some reason the team would rather give Emil Brown AB’s rather than find out if Matt Murton had just an absurdly good year a couple of years ago. So what happens now? Can they finally cut Emil? Please?

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Sep 1, 2008 6:00 PM PDT   0 recs

If they finally do

Party’s at my place.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Sep 1, 2008 6:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Cutting him would be a good idea.

I see the future. I see cake.

by Blicks on Sep 1, 2008 6:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Halsey

Wikipedia has him as a free agent. And his grievance against the A’s is still pending.

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Sep 1, 2008 8:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

You would say that.

by RIPHalsey on Sep 2, 2008 8:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey, vignette17 asks and vignette17 shall receive

Ryan Sweeney: I probably irrationally embraced him before you did.

by Joey C. on Sep 2, 2008 10:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

put brown at first sometimes and when ziggy

gets iffy, huston, you’re up.

owner of a lonely tarp

by oakath on Sep 1, 2008 6:45 PM PDT   0 recs

How can Brown be unhappy....he is on a major league roster!

How can Emil Brown be unhappy when he has has a spot on a major league roster for what will be an entire year. Of all the A’s Brown is the one who should have been dfa or traded at the all star break. He has no future with the A’s, and there is no reason to play him. His baserunning and defense have been marginal. My opinion is that he will not be on any major league roster next year.

by hokecole on Sep 1, 2008 6:49 PM PDT   0 recs

Next year

One would have to assume that E. Brown, Thomas, M. Sweeney, Foulke and probably Embree won’t be on the team next year. In the past month Davis has shown himself able to fill a few helpful roles on the team even if not starting (plays quality CF defense, can run, though his stolen base success rate could be better). Not sure who else is obvious on not coming back next year. I would imagine the rest would depend on off-season activity (keep or trade Duke or Street, get another first baseman, etc.).

by SA on Sep 1, 2008 7:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Those five for sure, I'd imagine

Ellis is a strong possibility too.

"Innings eater? Depends on whether you want delicious innings or burnt, moldy innings. Kirk Saarloos is the Hot Pockets of inning eaters." - Gallagher's Watermelons

by notsellingjeans on Sep 1, 2008 8:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The worst part about all this was

finding out that Brown is second on the team in homers. The second-worst part was finding out that he’s hit only 13.

Also:

These guys probably wish they never even signed me. That makes two 5 bazillion of us.

Fixed.

Children, until we have taught them better, will be perfectly happy with a seasonal round of games in which conkers succeeds hopscotch.

by salb918 on Sep 1, 2008 8:21 PM PDT   0 recs

That is some quote from Brown and I am 1 of those 5 bazillion who wishes he was never signed.

by ilovegregsmith on Sep 1, 2008 8:40 PM PDT   0 recs

Street blew, but he's back in form

So let’s not get too crazy about trading away every single one of our pitchers. Who else do you nominate for closer besides Ziggy?

by Technotofu on Sep 1, 2008 9:02 PM PDT   0 recs

Blevins

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's

by iamawesomer on Sep 1, 2008 10:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He has ice water in his bladder

so he wants to get into the clubhouse ASAP.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 11:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I am glad that Street is pitching so well now.

However, his poor performance led to someone else getting a chance at the closer position. It’s Ziggy’s job to lose now and he has excelled in the role. He has earned the role as closer and shouldn’t be removed unless he falters. It’s the way of the world, Huston.

by IM4Oakgal on Sep 1, 2008 9:22 PM PDT   0 recs

Yep. That's the way it goes in this game.

If you don’t get the job done you may lose it and just because you start pitching well again doesn’t mean it’s going to go right back to you as long as others are also doing well.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Sep 1, 2008 9:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What if "the way it goes" is illogical?

Besides, can’t we all agree that the ideal Ziegler situation is with a runner already on base, not the start of an inning with the bases empty? “Traditional closer usage pattern” makes zero sense for him.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 9:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn't use Ziegler as the long-term closer for that reason

I like him better as a setup/situational guy. Right now, Devine’s the one I’d like to see closing.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Sep 1, 2008 9:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I do agree.

  He is more suited as a holds guy. But Ziggy closing is working. So stay with the success.

by IM4Oakgal on Sep 1, 2008 10:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Insofar as he's done a good job in the ninth inning

its working. But PT’s point answers this. Even if he had 1322323 straight saves, he still shouldn’t be closing. He should be working high leverage innings.

by ohmangoAs on Sep 1, 2008 10:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If the A's won 162 games every year and Ziggy saved them all

It would take Ziggy 8,163 years to accumulate that many saves. That’s doable.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Sep 1, 2008 10:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you wouldn't, if you believe closing is not any more important than relief

in general. So, this fictional closer, if he had 1.3 million innings of “held” leads, he could have 1.3 million saves.

Even if he did that, you theoretically shouldn’t use him as a closer, since there are higher leverage innings.

by ohmangoAs on Sep 2, 2008 1:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Uhh, closers on average pitch the highest leverage innings.

Use Ziegler in another role, and he is going to be pitching lower leverage innings.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 3, 2008 7:57 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

To the extent that's true

It is still true that a team making a conscious effort to use their best relievers in the highest leverage situations would almost never bring them in to begin the 9th inning.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Sep 3, 2008 8:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe, maybe not.

The point is that when used in the “closer” role, relievers on average pitch the highest leverage innings, compared to any other roles.

So, unless Geren comes up with a new role in which to use Ziggy, Ziggy is going to be, on average, pitching the highest leverage innings while getting those 1.3 million saves.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 3, 2008 9:06 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

new role like the one he was in pre-closer?

Or do you know a lot of other guys who pitch the 7th and 8th a lot

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Sep 3, 2008 3:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The Fireman role then?

More innings than Closer, lower leverage. Might be more valuable, might not be.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 5, 2008 12:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The existence of a good solution

is not an argument against a better solution.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 10:14 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

Street is pitching better now.

And we don’t know why. But we know that Ziggy pitches well for us under stress. Let Ziggy keep his spot this year. He’s a good example of professionalism.

by IM4Oakgal on Sep 1, 2008 10:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm pretty sure the data will show we can see why

I’m guessing increased velocity, better location, and luck, but I’ll look at it more tomorrow.

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's

by iamawesomer on Sep 1, 2008 10:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I meant we don't know why ...

 his velocity and location are better and how much of the improvement may be due to psychological reasons such as less stress in non-save situations.

by IM4Oakgal on Sep 1, 2008 10:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is Street not a good example of professionalism?

As far as I can tell, the guy is a model employee.

This has nothing to do with his baseball skills, of course, just pointing it out.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 11:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Street has a good reputation as a team player and as a nice person too.

So you are probably right to question the use of that word. The point that I was trying to make is that players need to be consistent in their performance and Ziggy sets that example(so far) and Street does not.

by IM4Oakgal on Sep 1, 2008 11:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought a "model"

was a smaller version of the real thing.

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Sep 2, 2008 2:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ziggy would be much more useful to the A's in another role

I was going to put this in reply to IM4Oakgal’s post, but it fits better in reply to yours because you said what I think. I want Ziggy to come in with 2 guys on and 1 out in the 7th inning way more than I want him to come in for 3 “easy” 9th inning outs.

by thejd44 on Sep 1, 2008 10:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How about Ziggy coming in in the 7th

inning with the bottom of the order, the crap hitters coming up?

It’s not obvious that the “Fireman” model is better than the “Closer” model. The “Firemen” of the past pitched more innings, but the “Closers” of the present pitch higher leverage innings.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Sep 3, 2008 8:00 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

P.S. Brown...

seems like a very nice guy. He had some decent games for us. It just happens that our team wasn’t a contending team and it was better to let the young guys play and develop. I wish things had gone differently and his veteran presence and good guy teammate persona was needed on a contending team.

by IM4Oakgal on Sep 1, 2008 9:24 PM PDT   0 recs

I'd like to see Huston closing again.

I’m still not used to seeing him in the 6th or 7th inning… therefore he should be closing. Also, he’s awesome again, so he should be closing. My logic is infallible, I know.

by whiteshoes40 on Sep 1, 2008 9:26 PM PDT   0 recs

Browns defense sucks..

He has a terrible arm. He gets bad jumps. It seems like once a week there is a double that he could have caught. Or he just flails at the ball awkwardly while its going over his head. Can’t knock him at the plate though..

by skalordes on Sep 1, 2008 10:03 PM PDT   0 recs

What?

Yes you can, he has a .694 OPS. That’s wretched for a corner OF…

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 10:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I believe what skalordes is saying is

You can’t knock Brown at the plate more that once every 75 PA. He only has 5 HBP in 418 PA.

Another fun fact: Emil Brown has 58 RBI. Jack Cust has 59.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Sep 1, 2008 10:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm saying I can't complain

Because alot of other regular starters have had terrible years at the plate.

by skalordes on Sep 1, 2008 11:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Most hitters who get 500 at-bats are above average...

that’s why they’re getting 500 at-bats. It’s not like he was injured last year, he just wasn’t good enough to get 500 at-bats, even from the Royals.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 1, 2008 11:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah but if you ask the Cust haters

Brown is an RBI-machine and Cust leaves 100% of runners stranded

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Sep 2, 2008 7:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

+59

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Sep 2, 2008 9:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

RBI

Brown: 58
Cust: 59

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on Sep 2, 2008 4:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah yeah yeah, I know, RBIs are overrated, but still...

…shouldn’t a guy with 25 HRs have more than 59? He’s driven himself in almost half the time.

I know, it’s influenced by the guys in front of him getting on base, and God knows that ain’t happening much, but still…

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 4:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

and

hot on their heels is Bobby Crosby, with 55.

Overqualified to be an A's fan.

by andeux on Sep 2, 2008 10:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Knocking Brown at the plate

It can be done, easily, but here is a list of players whose performance has clearly dictated they belong in the outfield over Brown this year:

.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 2, 2008 11:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Street will cost 5 million whether he closers or not

So why not throw him out there to HOPE his form is regained and look to move him this off-season for a bat.

by Bud Light on Sep 2, 2008 8:46 AM PDT   0 recs

Actually, that's not true

Closers are consistently paid more in arbitation than other relief pitchers, despite similar stats. Arbitration takes its cue from the market, which also pays closers more than other relievers. Nonsense or otherwise, it’s reality.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Sep 2, 2008 2:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Designated hitter Frank Thomas will get more tests on his injured right quadriceps this week and there is a possibility that he will require surgery. Either way, his return this season appears extremely doubtful.

"The Athletics at Fremont" is really bad

by ArakSOT on Sep 2, 2008 8:55 AM PDT   0 recs

when did thomas get injured, was it sliding into home plate a few days ago?
he didn’t even need to slide, not only would he have been safe either way, but he didn’t even touch the plate until he came out of the slide.

why did the a’s not have him running the bases like in 2006, after his return from the DL?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 2, 2008 10:44 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Street needs to get back to closing

Having him come in for set up work right now is kind of pointless. If this was spring training then maybe the conversation would be different. Zigs should be used in 6-8 innings and Devine /Street should be getting the 9th inning.

Either way he is gonna be expensive next year so the A’s need to decide what they are gonna do with Huston really soon.

by mrod on Sep 2, 2008 9:39 AM PDT   0 recs

EBrown sure stirs some passions.

I see him as streaky, at best, but I do not see him as worthless. Shoot, for the first month or so he helped carry the team… then he totally sucked for awhile… and now seems to be back to somewhat average (though I haven’t checked numbers of late).

On the one hand, he is still at or near the top in several not insignificant categories. On the other hand, those “leading” numbers aren’t all that great by overall baseball standards, and is more a testament to how much the rest of the team really sucks! Without him, we’d probably only have 30 wins, the rest of the offense is that bad.

Ok, that last point is an exaggerration, but still…

"If I've got baggage, he's got a whole set of Louis Vuitton." ~ Milton Bradley on Barry Bonds

by UncleLeo on Sep 2, 2008 10:25 AM PDT   0 recs

so emil brown cost us stephen strasburg?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 2, 2008 10:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No, Jose Vidro, Kenji Jojima, and Richie Sexson did.

along with the entire Washington Nationals team.

"You can take all the sincerity in Hollywood, place it in the navel of a firefly and still have room enough for three caraway seeds and a producer's heart."
Fred Allen

by One won lost won on Sep 2, 2008 2:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I would argue that RBI is a very insignificant category

As for the last point, I know you were exaggerating but you just said that Brown is worth 33 wins to the A’s this year. He’s worth 1/10 that, maybe. I’m not sure he’s even been worth 3 wins to the A’s (maybe 3 wins above replacement, but that’s about it).

by thejd44 on Sep 2, 2008 11:48 AM PDT